Richard Durrett on the Chris Davis ejection
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 29, 2009 11:58 AM CDT
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PrintRichard Durrett has a couple of quotes from Chris Davis on his ejection last night.
I mentioned early on in one of the game day threads that home plate ump Eric Cooper was going to run someone. The Rangers started barking at him early on -- Ian Kinsler complained about a third strike call in the first at bat -- and after a few of the exchanges, you could just tell by Cooper's expression and body language that he was just waiting for the next person to argue a tad too long.
Which is unfortunate. Ejections are going to happen. But when you've got a situation like last night, where an umpire gets cross-wise with a team, and someone like me just watching at home can predict that the next guy to open his mouth is getting thrown, are not real good for the game.
It is like the comment I made about Joe West in the last series, where you almost get the sense that he wanted to call Ian Kinsler's long drive to left at the foul pole foul because Kinsler had been hitting a bunch lately and Kinsler shouldn't get too uppity.
Some umpires, you get the sense, feel like their role is to be a more active part in what goes on in the game than is necessary. Cooper ejecting Davis last night falls in that category.
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Was the pitch a strike?
The other night someone posted how B-Mac was getting screwed, so was the call on Davis correct?
no
but the A’s broadcasters weren’t exactly happy with the calls on the outside corner against righties that their pitchers weren’t getting either.
Yeah, but the A's broadcasters suck.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
My umpire aquaintance says,
“If you argue balls and strikes, you will get thrown out of the game.”
Some umpires let you jaw more than others, but I tend to agree that if it gets to that kind of argument, you have to go.
Now, all that said, what’s happened to the Rangers the last 5 games is getting a little ridiculous. 5 games in a row now where the strike zones seem to favor the pitchers. I can understand how the Rangers can’t ever seem to know what will be a ball/strike on a consistent basis, when this has been going on for a week. Hopefully, some of these instances get a lot of review from the umpiring association.
(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."
heres a suggestion to the umps
call the damn strike zone the way its laidout in the RULE BOOKS
that way there would be no need for any electronic kind of score keeping for the strike zone
its really not that hard
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 29, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
That's crap
It might be how the umpires work, but if they did their job right, there wouldn’t be any need to have every single batter in the game argue balls and strikes.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I wish umps had to face the media
Managers and players have to explain their decisions. If the umps truly believe that we pay to see them every night, then they should have to answer the same questions.
My wife and I were in New Zealand last year, and we watched a lot of rugby. After the matches, the TV crew would do a live interview with the referee asking him questions about certain calls during the match. It was not antagonistic, and the ref got to explain his side of the story. It was great.
The Poster Formally Known As: UrbanDad
"Listen to Ted. Trust him. If he cuts you off, switch gears and go with it." -- Shroomer
wouldnt be a bad idea
although there would be times when it would become ugly… They get paid pretty well as it is, i wouldnt mind hearing an explanation as to why so and so got ejected, it could be pretty humurous i bet at times.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
I didn't know they were paid well.
Always thought it was a ‘because you loved it’ job.
(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."
No, they are paid really well
Neyer posted on it a week or so ago.
Go Rangers...don't suck...
by Kinslerhomer on Apr 29, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
yea, i kind of assumed they were
just because i know they have a strong union.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
NFL Refs
Aren’t paid very well. I think it’s like ~$40k?
by FuturePants on Apr 29, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
That's pretty good pay for 16 weeks a year or whatever
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Apr 29, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
And they don't work the whole week
They fly in on Friday or Saturday and leave after the game. That is 40K for less than 40 days of work a year.
Thats pretty damn good actually
The NFL pays for their flights, hotel, perdiem, etc. And they only work one day a week for 20-25 weeks a year. I’ll take that kind of money for that.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
They are paid
anyhwere from 150K-300K from what I have seen.
by Michael Cave on Apr 29, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
Their hotels, flights (first class) get paid for my MLB and they get per diem which is really nice
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
and LOTS
of vacation time.
Go Rangers...don't suck...
by Kinslerhomer on Apr 29, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
In the offseason of course
But during the season they are on the road 7 days a week for 6 months at a time practically. Which is one reason they get paid so much cause most people wouldn’t want to do that unless they were being compensated handsomely
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm pretty sure they get some vacation...
…during the season as well.
I have no objection to man walking on the moon.
And the ability...
…to make a nice supplement to their income on the rubber chicken circuit.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 29, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Four weeks...
three of which must be at the same time.
Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.
"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM
i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking
Major League Umps get paid well, but the highest paid are still under the MLB player minimum
And they do get some vacation time during the season. However, minor league umpires get paid next to nothing, even the AAA ones. And it takes a heck of a long time to get to the majors.
ump salaries
aren’t most in the low 6 figure range depending on length of service time?
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
googled ump salaries
this is from major league baseball
“At the Major League level, salaries range from approximately $84,000 to $300,000 per year.”
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
Umps facing the media
I think that’s a good idea. I think most of the time it would actually help the umps win sympathy rather than expose their wrongs.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
that's one side...
But when you’ve got a situation like last night, where an umpire gets cross-wise with a team…
the other side is that the team got cross-wise with the ump…
no trouble seeing which side of the bed you sleep on…
The Rangers starting barking at him early on…
since when did this become all right?
since the beginning
of baseball?
Managers are commonly barking at umpires.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
It would be amusing to see the tables turned.
A player has a rough night in the field, and the ump gets in his face and tells him he’s sucking at his job.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
THAT would be epic
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
The team got cross-wise with the ump
because he was doing a shitty job and costing them the game.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
umpires
are just like NBA refs. they think they are part of the action. their own interpretations apply for many of the rules.
as bad as i get on NFL refs, at least they take a chewing out on the sidelines like a man.
i am sure they get verbally abused worse than any other sport. yet they never throw out a player or coach. they don’t try to be a part of the game unless your ed hockeli(sp).
by mo on Apr 29, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
on most of it
(that said ed is a pretty damn good ref normally…….)
if they followed the rules, they wouldnt have to worry about electroic systems like questec or the new one or anything like that…but they dont
i mean, what would happen if a boxing ref let a guy continue to hit the other boxer below the belt because he thought the beltline was mid thigh?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Apr 29, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
i've always
felt like Umps didnt effect baseball games near as much as NBA officials. I think that that is still true, but that doesnt mean that some baseball umpires dont try to stick their thumb out alot. They do seem to try to impose themselves on games.
Chris (NJ): I am personally offended at how you ranked a prospect from my favorite team, even though I do not know said prospect, nor have I ever seen him play. In my opinion you only have your job because, like your employers, you have an unholy bias towards my favorite team’s rival. Also, you’re short.
Keith Law: You’re right. I am short.
Ed may be a good ref
but I could do without that flexing of his guns on a constant basis.
Hochuli is a nice guy.
I’ve gotten to speak with him, and he gets a good laugh out of most of the stuff that happens.
(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."
My firm had the occasion to deal with him as possible local counsel...
….he is……not our favorite attorney on earth. Needless to say, it did not work out.
We don't need no stinkin' umpires . .
. . to call balls and strikes.
Time to replace umps with machines.
“Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world’s first bionic [umpire].”
I'd love to take
balls and strikes away from umpires. I think the technology is there.
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
"You know a pitching prospect isn't any good if John Daniels doesn't trade him away but keeps him insteaad." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
"You probably can throw Neftali Feliz on that group of overblown Rangers pitching prospect failures." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
no...it's not
please look at the tracker for low breaking balls
the tracker is incredibly bad for some pitches
As I posted the other day...
“Most people probably won’t agree, but… I would love to see balls and strikes called with technology. I hate that umpires can influence games by creating their own strike zone or giving certain pitches to veteran pitchers or squeezing a player they don’t like or just plain sucking.”
I don’t understand why people love to complain about it, but nobody wants to fix it. Just put a little transmitter in their ear that tells them what to call and let them go from there. That way they could still have their own distinctive strike calls, so the entertainment perspective wouldn’t change… but the calls would be correct and consistent.
Football=Fling... Baseball=Relationship
I'm fine with keeping a human element to it
I’m not fine with not being able to argue bad calls though. They need to put some sort of challenge system in place and more importantly, they need to start punishing the umpires that are doing a crappy job. These guys can do whatever they want out there and short of all-out trashing a player at first base, they never are punished.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I'm for this
Keep the umps for the rest of the game, but leave the balls and strikes to the technology.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Yeah
Most of the time with fair/foul and out calls, the umpires really are pretty good. It’s the strike zone inconsistencies that will drive you batshit crazy.
That technology sucks...period
I almost wish wed switch to it b/c the complaining on MBs would reach an epic level after it blew 1/2 the calls every game
Electronic Umpire
I think Questec uses the same technology used for the lines on a football field.
An electronic umpire should be more simple than that.
Home plate should be able to detect if any part of the ball crosses any part of the plate and how high it was when it crossed. That should be fairly simple technology.
I used laser eletroninc tape measures to measure buildings 20 years ago.
one problem is
that the strike zone is different for each batter
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I've seen it suggested
elsewhere that the tech could take care of plate coverage, leaving the ump to just worry about low and high.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Don't they already do this?
I thought that they have a tech guy adjusting the strike zone for each batter or at least have it done automatically.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I think overall they do a really good job.
I can’t count how many times I’ve yelled at the TV, “Bullshit”. Then I see the slo-mo replay, and I’ll be damned if they didn’t nail a bang-bang play.
That being said, yeah, the provokers need to know they aren’t the show. Counter-argument would be, as much as complaining about umpires is part of the history of the game, so is the ump fighting back.
I’d hate to lose the human element.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
Could this be a strategy?
Plate umps seem to be really incosistent this year. Here’s a thought – umps were pissed about the new Zone Evaluation computer/camera system. Could this be them saying, collectively, we don’t give a rats ass about QuesTec Mark II? We control these games, not computers. Since they won’t strike this might be there response. Here’s some info about umps’ response to the new computer/camera system:
Umpires may not necessarily welcome this much assistance. Port said the umpires union, the World Umpires Association, had approved the change, but a union spokesman, Lamell McMorris, declined to comment on that or any aspects of the Zone Evaluation system.
Asked if umpires had such concern about the new arrangement that they might consider going on strike — as early as opening day, which is Sunday — McMorris again declined comment. Jerry Layne, a veteran umpire, also declined to discuss the subject when reached by telephone.
Although a strike is unlikely, their silence suggested that the situation could hurt the relationship between Major League Baseball and its umpires, which had been improving.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/sports/baseball/01umpires.html?_r=1&em
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
If that's what's going on
then they are a bunch of passive-aggressive <insert expletive here>!
by NorCalRangersFan on Apr 29, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't really care if it was a ball or not
I just can’t stand the attitude so many umps exhibit. It’s the only major sport where players aren’t allowed to be somewhat emotional. You have crappy ref/umps in every sport, but only in baseball to refs look indignant at the first sign that a player/coach dares disagree with their assessment of the play.
It’s ridiculous, and it hurts the sport.
I'm a little hesistant to get up in arms about this
The pitch yesterday to Davis was very close – far too close for Davis to be mouthing off to the ump about.
For whatever reason, the umps have been cranky. We all know people who you don’t antagonize when they are cranky. I can’t watch the games, but listening to them, it sure does sound like Kinsler and some of the other Rangers have been a little more assertive in making their feelings known. All that does is induce more crankiness and more bad calls. The last thing we need is for the umps around the league to start treating the Rangers the way they treat Milton Bradley.
I think the bad calls have been general around the league. They aren’t out to get the Rangers right now. But they will be the more that these guys mouth off at them.
he mouthed off because the call came a full secon or two after it should
Ceterum censeo Cat esse delendam - Cahill the Elder
Exactly...
If you’re going to call that pitch a strike then fine. It was the pause that he made that pissed me off.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
It wasn't close
The umpire had a very liberal strike zone the entire game.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Not to start an argument, but...
I’d like to see some of y’all referee/umpire a sport. Then maybe you can get a little taste of what they have to deal with every day. I’m not saying never criticize officials, especially since the professionals get compensated for their troubles, but look at it from their point of view.
You can also argue if Adam could see the Eric Cooper was starting to get tired of the whining, the players should have seen that too and tone it down a notch. And I said this in the GDT – rookies/young players (Chris Davis) get a lot less leeway than established, top-tier players (Ian Kinsler).
Regardless
he didn’t have to bait Davis into coming back and saying something else.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Apr 29, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Again
It’s not about whether the call was missed.
MLB umps (and really umps on just about any level) have somehow established that their decisions are not to be questioned with any amount of emotion involved. They’ve also established that they’re allowed to yell back, insult back, and bait guys into coming further with their argument.
In no other major sport does this crap happen. In no other sport would you see a ref/ump stand their and watch Davis intently with “bring it, son” look on his face.
It’s ridiculous.
Why do I have to try it?
I’m not good at calling balls/strikes in Major League Baseball. That’s why I’m not doing it. These people are supposed to be the best there is.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Exactly
People want to bitch without knowing a thing about what is going on
thats like someone coming on here who doesnt know anything about baseball and trying to tell everyone here why they are wrong about a particular player, a.k.a Josey Wales
I'm sorry.
This is a bad argument.
“Most people can’t do this well, so we should give the people who get paid to do this a break because it’s so hard.”
Should we shrug our shoulders when players suck because it’s hard to play baseball? When TV shows suck because it’s hard to write good content for years at a time?
This is absurd logic. You pay people to perform a job. When they cannot perform their job requirements adequately, you replace them.
Please re-read my post
Your quote is not even close to what I said. I specifically mentioned I’m okay with criticizing professionals. My argument is that some people are extremely critical of something they have no idea what they’re talking about. I think if people are able to, they should do some little league umpiring or YMCA officiating to gain some knowledge about that sport.
It’s kind of like how many people say everyone should work in the service industry at one point so they are more understanding when they are the customers. Same principle here.
You specifically said:
I’d like to see some of y’all referee/umpire a sport. Then maybe you can get a little taste of what they have to deal with every day.
The tone of this statement comes across to me as though you’re saying “You just don’t get how hard it is to umpire. Give these guys a break.”
I understand your point about service industry work, but the overall point here is that if humans can’t do perform the job of judging an imaginary zone in the air, and a computer-based system can perform the same task more accurately, then we need to replace them. There’s no parallel to be drawn with regards to someone manning a customer service desk.
Your second paragraph above about how the players should’ve seen this as well, again, comes across to me as though you are defending umpires’s mistakes because their job is hard.
So, what was your point? Should we be more understanding of short-tempered umpires, and less understanding of short-tempered players?
The Day is coming soon
when they will be replaced by computer robots that work for free and never make mistakes.
If we have the technology, why not use it?
A device buried under home plate should be able to detect if any part of the ball crosses any part of the plate and how high it was when it crossed. That should be fairly simple technology.
I used laser electronic tape measures to measure buildings 20 years ago.
I don't have any problem with the ejection
I think Tom Grieve made a pretty good point about it the way it was done. I don’t like the way it was done, but the fact that it was done doesn’t bother me. It’s not like Davis was completely innocent or anything.
Well put
I still vote for technology to call balls and strikes, but it would be kind of cool to have a robot there just for arguing purposes. I guess you could yell at the guy operating the technology.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
So, would we have a human standing at the plate
for out/safe & fair/foul calls? And I guess he could be the sacrificial lamb for arguing the robot’s strike/ball calls.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
You'd definitely have Dirkatron's vote
if its a sexy Robot.
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
"You know a pitching prospect isn't any good if John Daniels doesn't trade him away but keeps him insteaad." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
"You probably can throw Neftali Feliz on that group of overblown Rangers pitching prospect failures." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
I think that Japanese robot
recently unveiled is a good step in the right direction. Who would argue with her? Program it to yell “strike 3!” and then giggle a little and every player would just be too embarrassed to argue.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Not Complicated
You dont argue balls and strikes. If you do, you will get tossed
this is not complicated people
It is...
if it isn’t ever questioned at all and taken as some unwritten rule.
by ghostofErikThompson on Apr 29, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Except it *IS* a written rule
9.02 (a): Any umpire’s decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions.
9.02 (a) Comment: Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game. [emphasis not added by me]
Well by your arguement, CD was in his "Position" and was protesting from there.
It was when the UMPIRE came at him when he left his “position” I read that to mean those in your “position” can protest. True? Doesnt matter, the ump had the right to throw him out but never had the right to “bate” Chris into an arguement.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
You're reading it wrong
As i said, it is simple, you argue balls and strikes at any time from any place and you are walking on thin ice
the only time you can get away with it is like CD did in his 1st ab…asking where the pitch was or something to that degree
if you say the ump is wrong or something like that…there is a damn good chance youre done for the day
That isn't...
the rule that got Chris Davis thrown out.
by ghostofErikThompson on Apr 29, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Bullshit
He was arguing the strike call
one of the 1st things you learn as an umpire is that you arent going to listen to people bitch about balls and strikes
Because we can't have that
The umpire is never wrong and can’t ever possibly be wrong. We should just continue to let him screw up his job.
As for the rules, the rules also clearly state where the strike zone. The umpire chose not to follow those rules, so why should Davis?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Apr 29, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Im merely telling you the perspective of the umpire
this is merely the facts of the argument…not saying it is right or wrong…but its the way it is
What I find weird is this
and someone like me just watching at home can predict that the next guy to open his mouth is getting thrown
Don’t be the next guy to open his mouth
when has an ump
ever got reprimanded for making bad calls.
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