Rangers Draft Talk
by clark on May 14, 2009 12:21 AM CDT
273 comments
We've tiptoed around it long enough and flirted with it in various threads, but to this point there is not a catch all spot to discuss the upcoming draft. Andy Seiler has done a great job covering the draft over at minorleagueball, but its time we had our own spot to bounce ideas over here at LSB.
For starters, check out milb's draft profiles to familiarize yourself with some of the top names, and then check BA's updated draft tracker to see how these guys have progressed throughout the year.
Then head over to the aforementioned minorleagueball and check out Andy's most recent first, supplemental and second round mocks, as well as his Ranger's draft preview and his MOD thread. You'll find each link in the recommended fanposts because apparently every Rangers thread over there is rectacular.
I'll kick off the conversation tonight by saying I have a new draft crush (or personal cheeseball, as BA would say) should the Rangers miss out on the many sexy arms projected to go at the top of the first round, and his name is Bobby Borchering. He's a prep third baseman who is an advanced hitter from both sides of the plate. While the Rangers would love to see him stick at third (though scouts seem mixed on that) I think he has the bat and the arm to make him a strong option as a left fielder. He may not be the top prep position prospect, but he seems to have the top prep bat, and he has 13 HRs in 107 appearances so far on the year.
UPDATE:
Here is the link to Brewerfan.net's top 30 as another point of reference (although their top 30 is already looking a little outdated in this year's very fluid first round).
Another useful resource during draft season is PG Crosschecker, although you either have to pony up for a subscription or root around for scraps of free information.
And finally, a new (and somewhat questionable) source of data this year is Real Baseball Intelligence. Their top prospects list includes some eyebrow raising locations for more than a few familiar names.
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Bobby Borchering
opinions are all over the place. I’m a bigger fan of him than Andy, but I too think that 14 might be a little too high for him.
This draft is really, really weak outside the top 10. It’s so weak that I’m not sure there’ll be a great deal of difference between the guy we pick at 14 and the one we pick at 44 unless someone major drops. Here’s hoping for Scheppers.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 1:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And by all over the place
I mean all over the place. There’s even talk of him playing catcher in the majors.
Here’s a video of him hitting.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby Borchering
is that the linebacker from the Waterboy…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 14, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nope
but its close enough that, should be draft him, we’ve already got a nickname for him.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all Gatorade
would have to be removed from the Rangers dugout if he ever made the show…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 14, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there's enough talent to go around.
There are at least 15 players worthy of being a Top 15 pick. Sounds obvious, but that’s not always the case.
I am OUT on Aaron Crow. Hopefully, I can get some video of him in Ft. Worth soon (Thursday night?) and show everyone why.
I like Tanner Scheppers (RHP – Ft. Worth Cats) and Tyler Matzek (LHP – HS).
Alex White’s (RHP – UNC) control could cause him to fall, but probably not to #14. I’d be intrigued, but would hesitate to pull the trigger.
If Kyle Gibson (RHP – Mizzou) somehow falls to #14, I’m all over that.
Kendal Volz (RHP – Baylor) will surely still be around, but some people still have him high up on their draft boards despite his gigantic let down this season. At #14, I think he’s a reach, but at #44, I’m thinking pretty hard about it… even though I’m not the biggest fan of his mechanics.
Alex Wilson (RHP – TAMU) is another name who probably figures into the mix at #44 rather than #14, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see him popped at #14. This is his first season back from TJ surgery, so there’s some projection left for him.
Mike Leake (RHP) at #14 and Jason Kipnis (OF/2B) at #44, both of ASU, are worth keeping an eye on.
The last time I knew this much about the draft going into it, the Rangers picked a guy I hadn’t considered at all: Thomas Diamond.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 2:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Isnt Matzek supposed to be a top ten pick if not top 5?
Or is there a chance he falls to us?
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on May 14, 2009 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's not alot of separation
right now with the top prep arms – Turner, Miller, Purke, Matzek, Wheeler et al are all pretty close. One of them is likely to fall to us.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
I just like Matzek better than the others.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
was a once-in-a-generation occurance. A top 5 pick falling w/o signability issues. The equivalent would be someone like Dustin Ackley falling to the Rangers at 14.
(If Dustin Ackley falls to the Rangers at 14, we’re all totally meeting at a bar somewhere and getting hammered. I’ll buy)
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed ASU's LHP Josh Spence
had put up some pretty strong numbers this year (his first year there after transferring from a juco) before a hand injury sidelined him for what appears to be the remainder of the year. I love when pitchers succeed in an environment known for hitting. The injury doesn’t sound like the sort of thing that would adversely affect him long term. Where do you think he may go now?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spence
I’m an ASU alumn btw….
He tops out at around 85-86 with his fastball from what I’ve heard. He’s got decent breaking pitchers and control, but I haven’t heard of him being likely to go higher than the 4th round.
Now, Leake is someone I’d love the Rangers to get. Yeah, there are higher ceiling arms out there, but this guy is really really good. I think he’s got LAIE written all over him.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on May 14, 2009 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he must be pretty damn sneaky
to put up those numbers in that ballpark with a fastball that tops out in the mid 80s.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I haven’t seen him pitch, so I’m not really sure. But, from the reports I’ve heard it didn’t seem like he had overpowering stuff, yet he was doing quite well.
I’m worried as an ASU fan though because he was the #2 behind Leake and they will miss him badly if they can get to the CWS for the 4 straight year or whatever.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on May 14, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
league average innings eater
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 14, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see us
grab Alex Wilson in the supplemental round, but as an Aggie I may be a bit biased. I think his secondary stuff will continue to come around as he distances himself from TJ.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im gonna rec this so we can keep this discussion up and running for a while
with the number of random fan posts we get, this thing will slide down alot. I wanna get some continous, informative Ranger’s draft discussion going so i can be better informed going in
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on May 14, 2009 2:17 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Minor League Ball
has us mocked taking Donovan Tate. We just traded for a “toolsy” first round OF who lacked baseball polish. Do we really need another?
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 14, 2009 9:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
tate vs golson
i was under the impression that tate was an athletic baseball player — meanwhile ’shed was more of a toolsy guy who happened to play baseball
is this correct andy?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 14, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Tate
is suffering from the backlash associated with being in the spotlight for so long. He has been on the radar forever, and therefore under the microscope for just as long. If the Rangers were to draft Tate, they would have a project, but no more so than the Marlins had with a guy like Cameron Maybin. As you said, there is a difference between an extremely athletic baseball player and an athlete who happens to play baseball, and I think Tate is the former, despite his struggles during his senior year.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats my viewpoint as well
almost to a T
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 14, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Bittle
What are your thoughts on Scott Bittle? I really like him going into last year’s draft, and the Yankees picked him in the 2nd round, only to pass on him do to some medical issues. Now he is missing time this year with bicep tendonitis, but he has been dominant when healthy. He should be an easy senior sign. Is he a viable option in the second or third round?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather
take A.J. Morris as a signability senior.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's someone I forgot to mention.
I’m not really sure that “signability” is why he’ll be drafted high. He’s fairly legit. I’m not saying he’ll rocket through the minors, but I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be picked in the Top 2 rounds.
Also… when was the last time the Rangers made a signability pick? Drew Meyer?
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
Last year, LSU’s Matt Clark (who led the NCAA in HRs) fell to the 12th round… so who the hell knows.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is AJM moonlighting as a baseball player? lol
heh
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 14, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ Morris
is probably more of a supplemental round guy, right? I would think Scott Bittle could be there in the third round because of his previous injuries. On the other hand, if the Yankees saw enough to not sign him last year, maybe it is better to just stay away.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colton Cain at # 44
What about Colton Cain? I don’t know much about him, but at 44 or 2nd round he looks like he would be worth a look….
by peachygbc_1 on May 14, 2009 12:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I asked about this
over at Andy’s MOD thread, but I have a feeling Colton won’t be there at 44. He seems like the sort of late riser who could get some consideration at 14.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
14?
If everyone we liked was gone at 14, I might take a chance.
by peachygbc_1 on May 14, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's post some top 10 lists
who are your players that you want to take @ 14?
Also, Clark, you should link to some draft sites like Brewersfan and pgcrosschecker
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Andy Oliver
Minors and Majors is one of the best shows on MLB Home Plate (satellite radio), and I called in a few weeks ago when they had a draft expert on. I asked what would be a reasonable selection with their second round pick, noting the Rangers pension for not adhering to slot money. They gave the usual “it’s too early to give a specific answer” stuff, but said that Andy Oliver would be a guy that would likely fall to the second round. Of course, there is the big brouhaha about his eligibility. Essentially he had gotten free advice while a high school pitcher, but then started getting advice from Boras. The first agent was pissed, billed the kid’s family for the advice. The family called his bluff, and then the agent alerted the NCAA about this violation. A lot of this came up last summer, and Keith Law has an article up on Oliver today. In essence, the courts are saying that the NCAA wrongly declared Oliver to be ineligible.
by Excel Hearts Choi on May 14, 2009 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, hadn't heard anything about that.
I hope that agent never works again.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 14, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wasn't an agent
he was a legal advisor/lawyer. The family hired him as an advisor. Most of those guys agree to take a percentage of the signing bonus. When Oliver went to Boras, the guy realized he was no longer going to get paid, so he billed him his hourly rate which equaled out to 350,000. Once the bill is sent, if the player’s family cannot pay, that player is deemed to have accepted illegal advice from an agent/advisor.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
had the player started off with an agent then gone to boras would the first agent have gotten a portion of the bonus/still get paid?
if so, theres nothing wrong with it — equally, how much “help” did the player get? 350k works out to either a SERIOUS overcharge or a lot of time spent on the matter…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
that was the original advisor’s position on the deal. He was not going to charge the hourly rate as long as he was getting a portion of the signing bonus. Once Oliver switched to Boras, he knew Scott was not going to share any commission. Therefore, to protect himself and his business interests, he reverted to the hourly rate. As far as what that rate is and how it got to $350,000, I’m not sure.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so whats wrong with that?
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nothing wrong with it
I would have done the same if I was the advisor. For the kid and the parent to play dumb on that is ridiculous. That must have been discussed in the original agreement, plus, who really thinks a lawyer or whatever is going to advise your son for a year and than get dropped for Boras and expect no compensation. I’m more upset about some of the articles that try and paint the original advisor as the bad guy here.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is.
I don’t think you have a very good grasp of how the agent/adviser game works.
Trust me, this is effed up.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
I don’t have a very good grasp of how this stuff works. Those classes in sports management I took at Univ. of Dallas did nothing for me. Oliver and his family reached an agreement for legal advice. Trying to cut bait and not pay the guy is wrong. You can’t retain a service for a year and not pay. The guy blowing the whistle to the NCAA was wrong, but taht doesn’t mean Oliver and his family are the victims here.
But since you said trust me, never mind what I said. I’ll just trust you from here on out…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a YEAR
jeeze didnt realize it was taht long
no reason not to bill him if you spent a YEAR doing it
who in their right mind can complain about that?
how is this fucked up ’tron? — i understand how it works, but if they said that he was going to get paid by getting a portion of the bonus then jumped ship a YEAR into the agreement what would you expect him to do? work pro bono?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, agents take on these advisor roles solely in hopes that they'll get something if the guy is still with them when he does decide to sign.
It’s not pro bono so much as it’s a spec deal. You invest your time with a kid hoping that it’ll pan out.
That’s why the agent game is so nasty.
What these guys did is fucked up.
They took this guy from another agent, then decided to get nasty when another agent took him from them.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok…..
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You disagree?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand where your coming from
but part of the issue is that from what i understand boras poached him from these guys (no suprise, its boras) and still after a YEAR they should get something
so yes i disagree
id say what boras did was fucked up as well
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 16, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You did read the part about where they poached him from his original agents, right?
So when they steal him it’s fine.
But when someone steals him from them, they deserve compensation and take steps to get him declared ineligible as revenge?
I especially like how part of their reasoning behind turning him in was that when Boras drafted a letter for Oliver letting them know Oliver was leaving them and going with Boras, that by Boras providing that service for him he had taken Boras on as his official “agent” (rather than an advisor, which is legal according to the NCAA) and therefor violated NCAA rules… when they drafted a near identical letter for Oliver when they stole him from his original agents.
I still don’t understand how anyone can think these guys aren’t petty, vindictive fuckholes.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the part about them working for a year and deserving some money...
…well, technically, I agree.
It’s fucked up that they get nothing.
But that’s the way the agent game works. In a just world they’d get paid for their work, but the agent game ain’t just. It’s like the exact opposite.
It’d be like if you were going to sell your house at some point in the future and you contacted a real estate agent and agreed that if he sold your house he’d get 5% of the sale if and when it ever got sold. Didn’t sign anything, but verbally agreed. Then one year later the house isn’t sold and you decide you’re not happy with him and switch real estate agents.
Then the real estate agent gets mad and tries to bill you for 1,000 hours at 100 dollars per hour he’s said he worked on getting your house sold.
Fair, or not fair?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats more my point
that they DO get nothing
if you had that agreement with realtor 1 and then went to realtor 2 and realtor 2 showed the house and got it sold and then realtor 1 wanted his 5% then no, clearly realtor 1 should get nothing
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 16, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why are you arguing?
I’m so confused…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only thing
is that apparently Oliver agreed to the hourly rate over the percentage of bonus. If that is the case, than it’s different than above scenario
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 17, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where are you seeing that?
I didn’t see it in the piece that broke down the suit line-by-line.
Not saying it’s untrue, but I didn’t see it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is in
the story I posted below
Baratta claims that when Andrew Oliver first selected Robert Baratta as his advisor, Andy had orally agreed to an engagement letter with Baratta Brothers. The letter said Andy would owe the New York firm $350 per hour of service provided. Baratta additionally claims that based on such rate, Andy racked up a legal bill of $113,000. As an October 2, 2007 Memorandum from the NCAA states,
“Finally, it is important to note that in order to maintain your eligibility at an NCAA school, if you receive assistance from an advisor, you will be required to pay that advisor at his or her normal rate for such services.”
This should be a lesson to all players who plan on taking on an advisor: fully understand what you are getting yourself into. Some advisors are content with taking a percentage off the top of a player’s signing bonus.
Others, like Baratta, charge an hourly fee. All of my agreements propose that Dynasty take a percentage of a player’s signing bonus, but no flat hourly fee is accrued.
Maybe I read it wrong but it seems from reading that passage that no agreement was made regarding bonuses.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 19, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, thanks, dude.
I know how the whole agent/adviser clusterfuck works.
What this guy did is fucked up.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody said
you didn’t understand it. I was just explaining the situation for those who didn’t know what happened. You apparently, were one of them since you said above, didn’t hear anything about that. Now, you are the expert on the situation. Interesting…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't is past tense, idiot.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I expect you
to smoke this guy, he’s taken sports management classes, don’t you know.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the University of Dallas!!!
That’s like the Harvard of the city of Dallas!!!
They have professors and everything!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's good
attack people’s educational credentials. Great debate skills. My dad can beat up your dad
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet he can... my Dad is a pretty big failure... three kids and none of them went to the University of Dallas...
;(
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is
your enfatuation with the University of Dallas. I didn’t graduate from there. I took Grad School classes there. You haven’t made any pertinent points other than to attack where I took some classes.
Insults: The most common weapon used by simple, weak minds…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest sign of a weak mind
is an idiot who makes arguments like “I obviously know more than you cause I took classes at the University of Dallas.”
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say that
reading comprehension skills are key here. Dirkatron said, you don’t know have a very good grasp of how this works. I said, I do have a grasp based on a course I took taught by a NFL agent. Didn’t say anything about knowing more. I know the Andrew Oliver situation because I followed it last year when he got suspended during the Regionals that TCU was also at. That was the situation I was explaining when my intelligence got attacked first. But again, this board isn’t always about facts or reasonable arguments. Sometimes, it’s about who can post the most insults and team up on people to feel good about themselves and their baseball knowledge.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh good
your butt buddy arrived…Ace and Gary ride again…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Ace and Gary go to THE University of Dallas too!?
lol
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we did
we would have taken more Sports management classes, and would be able to make awesome posts like A/S/L.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you got me
again!!! Everytime Firebat posts my self esteem drops a little.
Neither of you greatly educated baseball minds have told us where you went to school? Please, enlighten us as to where the smartest people on this board got their education.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not making fun of where you went to school so much as the fact that you dropped it like it was some big old knowledge bomb we should all be very, very afraid of.
It’s always pretty hilarious when yuppies try shit like that.
Reminds me of that SNL Will Farrel sketch.
“I drive a Ford Taurus! People are afraid of me!”
“I took Sports management classes at the University of Dallas by an NFL agent! You will listen to me!!!”
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodge Stratus.
Don’t bring that weak Ford crap in here.
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Definitely a Dodge Stratus.
I remember that distinctly, because I drive one, and thought of that sketch when I purchased the car.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on May 15, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And besides
Fuck the University of Dallas. Everyone knows UTA is where it’s at, bitches!
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on May 15, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yah!???
Did UTA produce the greatest GM ever and the most clutchiest OF in the history of the game?
Jim Bowden and Clay Bellinger, represent!!!
Holler!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It did produce...
Hunter Pence, John Lackey, and Joey Prebynski.
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See now
that wasn’t what I was going for. I was just giving you a little background knowledge as to why I do in fact have a slight grasp of the agent/advisor relationship etc.. Notice the word slight. Moving down to Clark’s question below, that was more my original point as far as Oliver has to pay the original advisor something for his time. The original advisor made a dick move by turning him into the NCAA with what basically amounts to blackmail, but he still has to be paid something.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats how i took it
as in there was a person wit h some background on the issue and they were sharing that/validating they they somewhat knew what they were talking about
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
University of Dallas = UTD?
Or different school?
by LiamP on May 15, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dirk,
getting away from this whole educational flamewar, do you not think the first agent was entitled to some sort of compensation? Maybe I am misunderstanding the debate here…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I am obviously not Dirk, but yes, I feel like he has to be paid something. Common practice is to say you will take a percentage of the signing bonus or the client will pay hourly rate. When Oliver switched to Boras, the advisor realized he would not get signing bonus money, so he reverted to hourly rate. How that number came to $350,000, I don’t know. That seems high, but I don’t know what the guy charges.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For fun, a hypothetical...
Let’s say it was a straight-up agreement on a percentage of the signing bonus. There were no provisions regarding a non-signing or an hourly rate. Now who’s the dick?
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that scenario
the advisor. He would have basically attempted to ruin the kids amateur career because of some jealous resentment
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27446-the-andy-oliver-saga
This is the most detailed article I could find. Oliver allegedly agreed to an hourly rate agreement with Baratta at $350 dollars an hour. Oliver got Baratta’s name from Cameron Maybin who is still a client. When he switched to Boras, Baratta tried to collect the 113,000 he felt he was owed. Oliver balked and the Boras agency sent a letter basically asking Baratta to cease and desist his collection attempts.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what happened.
From here:
21. At that initial meeting, the Defendants RMB [Robert Baratta] & TB [Robert’s brother]…told the Plaintiff and his father that they would charge three (3%) of any baseball contract entered into by the Plaintiff, and twenty-five (25%) of any endorsement contact entered into by the Plaintiff.
Sure, no legal contract existed based on the Ohio Statute of Frauds, which requires such a statement to be in writing, even though NCAA rules does not allow such an arrangement. Sounds like a Catch-22, right? Sure is! In addition, 3% seems low and 25% seems high. I always advise potential clients to be wary when they hear a baseball agent/advisor offering his services for less than 5%: the industry standard. I believe that when you pay less than the norm, you should expect less than the norm in return. Additionally, 25% is on the higher end when it comes to endorsement commissions.
And my super favorite part is the agencies web page (Note the highlighted section):
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so basically
they entered into an under the table agreement and both got screwed when they called each other on it…That’s kind of funny
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How was it under the table?
The archaic NCAA rules on advisor/agents make this sort of deal the norm.
Agents agree to serve as unpaid “advisors” with the understanding that if the kid does sign, the agent will get a piece of the contract.
The best part to me is when the agent tries to say Oliver violated NCAA rules by using Boras’ legal team to draft a letter to Icon stating that Oliver was leaving them… only for it to then come out that they had drafted the same sort of letter when Oliver came to them from his original “advisor”. (Boras was his third advisor, for those who didn’t know… the agents who were all mad about him being taken away had previously taken him away from someone else. The Todd would offer them the sweetest hypocrisy five right about now…)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
they are all under the table. But it’s funny that Oliver claims I didn’t sign anything and Baratta’s group claims, of course no one signed, it’s illegal to sign but we had an agreement. Baratta will probably lose his money and Oliver lost some of his college career.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 15, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he worked for a year on the issue yea, he should get paid in some way
when tghe player changed to boras — maybe not 350 k but SOMETHING
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
That’s how it works.
These guys knew that going in.
The agent game is tough and it’s made even tougher by the stupid as ass shit rules the NCAA forces on kids, but that’s how it works. It’s a nasty, nasty game. You’re not allowed to officially sign with an agent, and these guys can’t afford to hire these guys as actual paid counsel, so they reach these agreements saying basically that when I sign you get part of the bonus.
A guy is free to leave at any time.
Just like he left his first agent (for nothing, btw) to sign with these guys.
Otherwise you’d have these guys as basically indentured servants once they acquired an advisor, cause as soon as they agreed with an advisor they can’t leave him no matter what cause if they do he’ll suddenly bill him for his services and he’ll be unable to pay and end up in legal trouble and losing his NCAA eligibility in one swoop.
This decided to play nasty over some sour grapes at losing a client, and now he’s facing some backlash.
Good.
He deserves it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what's more
the NCAA essentially ignored the judge’s ruling and they’re still enforcing the policy. I can’t remember where I saw it, but it was in the last 18 hours I read that. The NCAA is in danger of being held in contempt for not following the judge’s directions…
Ooh, found it, Keith Law has it. The NCAA has 7 days to prove there are no grounds for contempt.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4165191
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 14, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Callis draft chat going on now:
Some good stuff.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 14, 2009 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
From the Draft Chat: Donovan Tate reportedly wants $6MM to sign
At that price, I wouldn’t pick him anywhere.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if only he was wortha 6 mm signing bonus
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 14, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like every year a few months before the draft we hear about how all these guys want crazy money to sign...
…and then by the time the draft comes around most of them come back down to Earth.
They may want over slot, but I don’t see Tate turning down a Justin Smoak-type deal (3 or 4 million or so) if we picked him and offered it to him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 14, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me crazy, but if I'm spending that kind of money...
I want a Kyle Gibson or a Zack Greinke or a Justin Smoak or a Bryce Harper.
I don’t want the guy whose tools are raved about but hasn’t quite lived up to expectations (even if the expectations were massive and possibly unfair).
Comparing Smoak to Tate just seems wrong…
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I've read about Tate I don't disagree.
I’m just saying… I expect that “I won’t sign for less than 6mm!!!!” talk to cool considerably before the draft arrives.
Tate scares me a bit, but if we took him I wouldn’t mind it… if only because I trust our amatuer scouting department quite a bit and so if we took him that’d mean they signed off on him, and that’d be a huge positive in his book, imo.
But if I was making that pick right now?
No on Tate.
Yes on whichever high ceiling HS arm falls to us.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I was actually referring to the $3MM price tag we spent on Smoak.
About 10 guys a year get that much. I don’t think Tate should be one of those 10, so there’s certainly no reason $6MM makes sense.
I feel the same way about Purke’s reported $7MM demand. He’s far from a “can’t miss” label, and even guys with that label miss quite often. If Purke is dumb enough to leave even $2MM on the table and risk not being a Top 15 pick again, then he doesn’t deserve the money.
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record...
I had the same position in summer 2007 when Beavan was reportedly threatening to leave $1.7MM on the table to attend college. Seriously, you’re the 17th overall pick in the country. Do you really think you’ll be drafted that high again in three years? Is it worth the risk?
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 3:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA has their first mock
with Shelby Miller falling to TX
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/mock-draft/2009/268103.html
by Goyogringo on May 14, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll take it!
That just sounds like a great baseball name.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm always suspicious of a report that says....
“Crow has looked good at Fort Worth” after a single relief appearance. The 2009 season starts tonight.
I guess Callis is talking about bullpens and scrimmages…
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I think it they are like preseason games
but prior to that the word from the bullpen/scrimmage watchers was positive for both. Crow looked better and Scheppers worse in their second appearances.
by Goyogringo on May 14, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't want you to share pay info
but are there any surprises among the guys they have going 1-13? I have heard that Washington is going to go cheap for their 10th pick. Any other projected reaches?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 14, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No not really.
The A’s snag Matzek but he has us taking miller over Purke due to signability, but I think he ranks Purke ahead of Miller in the end. I think Purke wants 7mill?!
Per the Nats, I was just going to post this from the chat: it is true (at least per Callis) which is great since it pushes one more quality guy closer to us. He has Jenkins going to them at 10.
Brett (The ILL): Any indications on what the Nats will do with the #10 pick? Will they go “cheap”, or will they take advantage of the situation and pop another potential stud? Who would be your guesses for that pick?
Jim Callis: We’re hearing they will go cheap and cut a deal there. Hearing names like Kennesaw State RHP Chad Jenkins, North Carolina HS C Wil Myers and New Jersey HS OF Mike Trout.
by Goyogringo on May 14, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have Matzek, Purke AND Miller falling to 13??
Shit, I’ll take that.
by LiamP on May 14, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
noooooooooo
why are they going cheap
i hope they get skewered in the papers for this shit, itsnot like they dont have money and a shitty fam systems — as a question when was the last time “going cheap” worked over BPA? ben revere?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 14, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
More than a few people prefer Miller to Purke.
I’d be delighted if we got Miller, even if Purke was still available.
by LiamP on May 14, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he's talking about the Nats.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh.
If there’s one team that has a legit reason for going under slot at #10, it’s the Nats. They’re going to spend around 15mm on Straaburg and they still have the rest of the draft to deal with.
by LiamP on May 14, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem is that they dont have much of a farm system
at almost any level — smiley (the SS) is old, mcgeary is finally full time, theres not 3 or 4 players in their current system i would take over a lot of guys in the rangers system
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burgess, Detwiler, Marrero, Hood
Zimmerman if you want to cheat.
Their system is weak, but it’s not feasible to spend that much money on Strasburg and then continue to go above slot or slot on all of your other picks, especially at #10.
by LiamP on May 15, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
detwiler, marrero/burgess are not top 10 guys in a good farm system imho
zimmerman is in the majors for good asf ar as i know
why is it not feasible? they cant continue down this baltimore orioles path (back when they were so bad) or try to go down the houston astros path/rangers path of signing vets, not being good, vets sucking
being even worse
their attendance is horrible
their radio audience is horrible
beyond bad
like i said, when was the last time going “budget” worked? they are going to become the pittsburgh pirates if they keep htis BS up
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about top 10?
You said there weren’t 3-4 players in their system that you’d take over “a lot” of players in ours.
Going under slot sucks, yes. But it’s not like you have 1 1st rounder and you’re taking Drew Meyer…you’ve got 2 and you’ve taken the best draft prospect in recent memory with the other.
by LiamP on May 15, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are not at ALL
i would take mcgeary over maybe kiker but i wouldnt take any of their other positional prospects you listed over someone like beltre
zimmerman is out of the equation because hes in the majors
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who would you rather have in their farm system
that is in our top 10-12 guys
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunno, maybe Burgess?
But I don’t think I ever made that point.
You started off saying “a lot” and shrank that down to “top 10”. I argued the first qualifier, not the second.
by LiamP on May 16, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
id take mcgeary over kiker, thats about it
nobody else in our top 20
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 16, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Detwiler
Doctor please. Some more of these.
by tricer on May 16, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why isn't it feasible?
They’ve known ever since the season ended last year they were gonna be in position to draft Strasburg and according to Bowden they made the decision to pick him early last Winter, so certainly they worked him into their long term budget. It’s not like this whole thing crept up on them.
And they should theoretically have some money left over from not signing their first round pick last year.
IMO, it’s perfectly feasible that they could spend the money to go above slot at #10 and beyond this year.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course they've planned for this
And I’m sure that plan involves taking Strasburg and then going slot or under with a great deal of their remaining picks.
You guys are talking like I don’t advocate spending more money on the draft. I do, it’s just not going to happen with the Nats. They’re about to give the biggest deal to a draftee in baseball history. You could combine the bonuses for T. Beckham, Posey and Matusz and you still wouldn’t get what they’re about to give Strasburg. Christ, how many teams spend 15mm on their draft, much less one player?
Also, I’m reminded of what JD said about missing out on Ynoa. That 6+mm doesn’t necessarily carry over to the next FA period. I have to imagine the same goes with the Crow money from last year. I don’t think that it works like rollover minutes. Plus, if anything, that money probably went towards Dunn.
I just typed all that shit on an iPhone.
by LiamP on May 15, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha ha ha
That last line cracked me up.
Anyhow, no, I don’t mean to words in your mouth at all.
You guys are talking like I don’t advocate spending more money on the draft.
Not my intention.
I’m merely stating that this isn’t normal circumstances. If they budgeted in Strasburg’s eventual signing as basically a FA signing, then why would that mean they’d have to budget in the rest of their draft at slot or under? They might have, of course. But it’s not assured. They certainly don’t have to. Strasbug is a special case.
I just don’t see why a team has to go under slot because of one pick they’d already made plans for in their budget, if I’m explaining this right.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand it doesnt "roll over"
but look at the situation:
were ready to give teix 100+ mil (i beleive they offered the most total $ out of any offer)
they didnt sign a 1st rd pick lastyear
yea, they are going to give 15 mil to sign him, but if hes mark prior they are probably going to earn a fair chunk of that back (and yes that includes if he followed the exact same career path)
as bad as they are, and as much as their fanbase is tired of this BS why WOULDNT they go BPA – if they go super budget they are going to get blasted, as they should
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because teams have a draft budget.
And it’s separate from their other budgets. It’s not one big pool of money. Why is this the case? I have no idea.
I have no idea how they budgeted Strasburg, but given every article and mock related to the Nats draft has them going under slot at #10, all I can assume is that they’re blowing their load early. Do I agree with this? No. Do I understand it? Yes. It was probably hard enough getting that retard Kasten to agree to give Strasburg 15-20mm.
by LiamP on May 15, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes i am
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Purke is a lefty all things equal and they both fall i think i go with Purke
but i like what ive seen from Millers motion
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 14, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Purke's mechanics
are a big point of contention, and it hasn’t gotten better his senior year. A lot of people thinks he’s an elbow injury waiting to happen.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds an awful lot like beavan
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 14, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never thought his motion was that bad
(across body and could eventually lead to it but not waiting to happen-bad)
but then again i may def be wrong
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it bothered me
but i was still glad he fell. the delivery just looked so violent
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 15, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea -- heres hoping his velo jumps back up
i wont believe it till i see it though
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a link of 1-8 that has every mlb scouting report theyve done
seems to be by position since 1 was all catchers
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 14, 2009 9:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
duh, alphabetical
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 14, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warning...
If you load those pages in Firefox, you will be autoplayed to death.
by NoNameOnCard on May 14, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this occurs on regular explorer as well
it was crazy at first, then i realized the mute button was my friend and i just let it die off.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on May 15, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tanner Scheppers
will pitch in Sioux City this Saturday. I might go check that out.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 14, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
UNC's left handed reliever Brian Moran
has put up silly numbers this year.
in 29 games covering 53.2 innings, he only allowed 31 hits and a .167 BAA, leading to a 1.84 ERA. But the really eye popping numbers are his 73:4 K:BB rate.
Is that even possible after little league?
Plus he looks like this. He needs to be in our bullpen for a decade, starting ASAP.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 12:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHA
that looks pretty crazy lol
74 to 3? wowwwwww
scouting report?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he on a draft list somewhere?
Is he projected as a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round guy? His stats are very intriguing.
by NoNameOnCard on May 15, 2009 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's why i asked
i haven’t seen his name anywhere. i came across his stats while checking on the more heralded UNC guys, so you would think his name would pop up in BA chats as a “I went to see Alex White, but then I noticed this guy” sort of thing.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jeebus thats good
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 15, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That picture alone
is worth 2nd day drafting.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 15, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like Ian Kinsler's hair exploded
"That start was like somebody on a deathbed suddenly jumping up and doing the Lindy Hop, then speeding away on a pogo stick while playing the fiddle." - Telegraph
by lonestarJon on May 15, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to make this happen.
If only for the hair and facial expression.
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
by Conjunction on May 18, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for what its worth
harold martinez this year (51 games)
.296 ba
199 ab
59 hits
8 hr
9 2b
42 rbi
.462 alg
14:46 – bb:k
.341 OBP
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rudy
landed over at ASU and has been one of their better hitters as well, albeit it in a SSS.
http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html
And what is the word on Jason Kipnis? Does he project as a CF or a MI in the future? He is the sort of player I fall in love with, but is he a Pedroia or a Robnett?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than 2007?
In the 2007 draft we got Beavan at #17 and Neil Ramirez at #44
Do we come out with better talent in 2009 at #14 and #44?
Any chance of Miller at #14 and Cain at #44?
by peachygbc_1 on May 15, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"My Guys"
Up to this point, I would have to say my hopes for the draft would be Shelby Miller at 14, someone like Alex Wilson at 44, someone like Kipnis in the second round, and then my boy Brian Moran down in the 7th or 8th round. the obvious disclaimer is that I would prefer they take the BPA at each spot. but if we came out of the second round with Miller, Wilson and Kipnis, I would be very pleased.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Clark can we also make this a depot
for international FA rumors just so that we have a place to put them?
by Goyogringo on May 15, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good to me
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone
gotten a chance to check out Baylor’s Shaver Hansen? What’s with his power explosion this year?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hes good friends with manny and arod?
i keed i keed
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great name.
Our farm system is deep enough at this point that I think we can have a year where we draft players based on their names alone. What’d’ya think, guys?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if their name is
Best Player Available.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 15, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So i been looking around but who are the top Prep Arms in the draft
i checked out the 2 lefties and miller but who else are the young high school arms we are looking fall?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 15, 2009 1:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Miguel Sano likely signs with Pirates
in the neighborhood of 3-4 million.
Anyone keeping tabs enough with the international FA market to say which handful of pitchers are in the 1-3million range?
by Goyogringo on May 15, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
pirates?
heh
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i expect other small market teams
are going to start copying the formula we used to revamp our farm system. Unfortunately for the Pirates, the Jason Bay trade was far from the Teixeira trade.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
welll
yea but that could end up as one of those trades everyone talks aobut in 5 or 6 years
maybe even 15-20
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 15, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another mock
Take it for what it’s worth…
http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft-2009
I was just trying to find the draft order, this was the first hit.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on May 15, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not bad.
I have a hard time imagining the A’s going HS SP, though.
I think one of the HS arms will fall to us and we’ll take him.
We seem to like HS arms.
Kiker, Main, Beavan, etc… plus we were all set to snatch up Ethan Martin before Smoak fell.
So, yah. Hopefully one of the high ceiling HS arms gets to us and we snatchety snatch him up.
HCHSA’s are the bestest.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
they did take Cahill, who was a HS SP. I don’t think they necessarily have a MO except for take the player who best fit with their organizational philosophy.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HS Arms
I hope one of them falls, if not i’m not really sure who I like unless tate falls.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 15, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've yet to put in the research time.
But the HS arms (Purke, Matzek, Miller, Wheeler, Turner, etc…) all are at least initially intriguing.
So are guys like Tate, Andy Oliver, Crow, Scheppers, Gibson, Green and Borchering to varying degrees.
There’s lots to choose from in our slot, I think.
On the surface I really like our slot.
I trust JD and Hopkins to go BPA and make a good determination on who that is when we pick.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 15, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah there will be good options
Though i havent the slightest interest in green, i feel about him the way others do tate.
If crow, scheppers, or the top HS arms (Maztek,Miller,Purke,Turner) fall i’ll be ecstatic.
But if we get gibson or olver, thats good too.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 15, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brooks Raley
I know there was some talk about Brooks Raley on this board a few days ago. Well, he had his second bad outing in a row tonight against Oklahoma. Texas hit him pretty hard last week and OU scored six off him (three homers) in six innings tonight. Some Aggie fans of mine think he is getting burned out but I haven’t followed him enough this year to know for sure.
by uthornfan on May 15, 2009 9:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't think he is a top two round prospect
i would much rather have a live arm like Wilson.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I was just point this out because someone (TR Sullivan maybe) mentioned Raley as a possibility.
by uthornfan on May 15, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is an athletic pitcher
and that has been our type of late, but I still don’t see it. of course, if this late slump knocks him down to the third round, they could grab him as a value pick. but i doubt that happens…the Cowboys are the local team obsessed with drafting Aggies, not the Rangers.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Leake, however
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 15, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
at this point, you probably shouldn’t allow performance to affect your perceptions of a player. College stats are pretty much meaningless. I still don’t like Leake that much mainly because of his ceiling.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 15, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
College stats are pretty much meaningless.
i think your on an island when it comes to this firebat — HIGH SCHOOL stats are pretty much meaningless, yes but college stats?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 16, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
College stats
still should not be taken over scouting. Context and strength of competition is still pretty inconistent, and you’re dealing with fairly small samples, aluminum bats, etc.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 16, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
but the park factors for colleges are really, really extreme. You can’t fault a guy for not Homering in a place like Tennessee, for example, since it rocked a 79 last 3 years as far as park factors were concerned.
I’m happy that Mike Leake is doing something to establish himself as a clear top 1/2 pick, but I’d take higher velocity from him to great college stats any day.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is wrong with his velocity
Teams have been screwed fairly often taking high school kids with great velocity (and I am not just taking about Beavan) because it is common for kids to lose a little velocity after high school.
plus, according to this scouting report, he has a fastball that sits at 91 with good movement and downward sink. He also has a pretty complete four pitch offering with excellent command. That, plus that fact that he had to learn how to pitch in such a hitter friendly environment, make me pretty intrigued by this guy.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
91 is not very good
especially considering that college pitchers usually have a lot more miles than HS pitchers.
Thomas Diamond was supposed to throw in the mid-90s too, the loss of velocity happens to everyone. It happens for different reasons though – guys like Beavan lose it because they have to change their mechanics. It’d rather have those guys than guys who lose it because their arms are slagged.
I don’t think Leake’s velocity will get beyond high 80s in the pros, and that’s not a guy I’d want with the 14th pick
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he has firmly established himself
as a guy who throws in the low 90s and can hit 94, why do you think he will all of a sudden drop to the high 80s as a pro. I have not read about any mechanical issues, and he is supposed to be a very good athlete who starred as a two way guy in HS.
And the major difference between him and Diamond is that he is a groundball guy who doesn’t have to rely on velocity to get guys out. Diamond was essentially a two pitch pitcher who sounded like a future bullpen guy the day we drafted him. Leake is a completely different guy.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because both college guns
and mechanics are heavily unreliable, nevermind the fact that guys like Leake have much more miledge on their arms than HS guys.
This isn’t like Stephen Strasburg, where his PC has been closely monitored. Check out Leake’s usage rates.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where can one find those?
i didn’t consider that…
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i really don't know why
i am sitting around defending a player i had never heard of a week ago. i am certainly not attached to him. i guess i just like what i’ve read about him (especially the fastball movement and the plus control), and i feel like the team has taken a lot of justified chances on young arms lately, so the idea of spreading (or mitigating) our risk by taking a polished college guy seems rational.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i also found
this write up on him. He sounds like a “safe” pick, which is synonymous with an “unsexy” pick, but it seems like he has succeeded everywhere he’s been.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So did Jonathan Johnson.
I hate going with “safe” and I hate going with “cause he’s close”.
No, no, no.
No.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so how would you rank the guys
who could be there at 14? Like I said, there are a few high school pitchers I would definitely take over Leake, but guys like Purke, Miller and Turner are gone, then I would certainly be happy with a guy like Leake.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
but to say that they dont matter/are meaning-less is somewhat foolish
you have to consider everything, yes i agree with that
but to say that they arent worth anything….to me is saying way to omuch
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 16, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
there are somethings that do translate
BB%, K% are both very helpful when evaluating hitters. (For example, guys like Keith Law were pointing to Alvarez’s high K% last year as a reason why Justin Smoak will be a better big leaguer.)
LD% is also a pretty good indicator, but other than those stats that can measure true skills, most college stats have to be taken with a great deal of salt.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you also need to consider
that Leake has experience pitching in a very difficult environment for pitchers. I think he could move quickly.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
but at this point, do we want a guy that moves quickly or a guy with a high ceiling. I think we’re at the point where we take guys with massive potential before taking a guy that moves quickly since there’s going to be a roster crunch all over the minors in the next few years.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always take the higher ceiling over will move quickly.
Always.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this isn't black and white
a player with a complete toolbox but weak baseball skills theoretically has a higher ceiling. let’s throw this out there: would you rather pay a 5M bonus to Donavan Tate or a 1.6M bonus to Mike Leake, knowing that you have a comp pick and a strong Latin class to consider?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but another factor, and this could be a reach, is that this team may need to consider short term trade value. If this guy has a decent chance of being a mid-rotation starter and another guy on the board has a much smaller chance at being an ace, then next July, if Leake is looking decent in High A or Frisco, then which guy has more trade value? The key is whether this guy is more Brett Cecil or more Tommy Hunter.
All that being said, if a guy like Shelby Miller is still there along with Leake, then Miller is your guy.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would contend
that young, toolsy guys have more value than polished college guys. Look at the guys who’ve been traded recently, it’s the guys like Engel Beltre, Elvis Andrus, et al that brings the big trade pieces back.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two things
one, the Rangers made it a marked priority to target young, toolsy guys like this. it should be noted that both of these guys were polarizing to scouts.
two, i would argue that the fact we were able to acquire them in bulk trades means that they didn’t have much value to their former teams. If anything can be said for JD in the summer of ’07, it was that he did a great job of finding guys who another team seemed to undervalue. Salty, Andrus and Murphy were all blocked by better and/or closer players, and even Harrison had fallen behind JoJo at the time.
I think it is a matter of preference. Some teams like the Aaron Hicks of the world, and some teams like the Christian Friedrichs. But a year after the draft, I would argue that Friedrich has more trade value at this time (if either player could be traded). Three years down the road that could change.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the trades made at the deadline last year
you see guys like Emilio Bonifacio et al changing teams or you saw establish ML guys like Kotchman. I really can’t think of a time that someone traded for a “polished” prospect before they traded for a toolsy one. Yumihoweveryouspellit Petit maybe?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 16, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
You want the mustache on or off? ... ... ... Too bad.
by thedirkatron on May 16, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the feedback
which part did you disagree with?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Mike Leake.
I would be perfectly content taking him at #14.
by NoNameOnCard on May 18, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Callis has him going at 11
Can you give a brief overview of him and why you like him?Do you like him better than Purke, Miller, Matzek ?
by Goyogringo on May 18, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Briefly...
Leake has just been outstanding. His 88-91 mph fastball moves like mad. He gets ground balls and strikeouts, and he walks very few. The only real knocks on him are his height, which isn’t that bad at right around 6’ 0", and his unimpressive velocity. His pitchability and athleticism more than make up for both in my opinion.
I’d personally rank those four in this order: Matzek, Leake, Miller, Purke. I seriously dislike the $7MM rumors that I’m hearing about Purke. Miller’s arm action makes me hesitate, too. There’s probably a good chunk of players I’d take in between Leake and Miller.
by NoNameOnCard on May 19, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he the guy you would want the most at #14 NNOC?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can you expound
on the “good chunk of players you would take in between Leake and Miller”?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Outside of Scheppers, Gibson, and Ackley, who almost certainly won’t be around when #14 comes up, there aren’t a ton of players I’d take over Matzek and Leake, who might actually be there.
I’m generally scared of high school arms that throw 95+. High velocity + young age = bad news for growth plates. It’s sort of like that statistic about LLWS pitchers almost never making it to professional ball (does anyone have that handy, btw?) There are exceptions, of course, but Shelby Miller is not Josh Beckett, Rick Porcello, or Zack Greinke. He’s not even in the same neighborhood. I also don’t like it when reports vary fairly dramatically about a player’s mechanics. Half of Miller’s reports say he has no issues, and half say that his mechanics are suspect. I guess that means 50% of scouts really don’t know what they’re talking about.
Purke’s demands, if the $7MM rumor is true, are ridiculous. He wants Porcello money, but he’s not even comparable in my opinion. Purke also throws a slider, which I hate in high school pitchers.
If either is there at #44, I’d consider taking a shot, but you can consider me scared off.
Ahead of them, I’d consider Victor Black (RHP – Dallas Baptist U.) who might be ranked a little low on a lot of boards and Tyler Skaggs (LHP – Santa Monica HS).
I am thoroughly unimpressed with the position players in this draft, but there are probably some Ian Kinsler’s and Chris Davis’s to be had.
by NoNameOnCard on May 19, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't remember where
i read this (BA?) but someone claimed that although the first round was a nightmare, the second through 5th or so were the deepest in years. It sounds like it is a great opportunity for a good scouting dept like ours to hit on some nice picks, as you said, like a kinsler or davis…
by Goyogringo on May 19, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was on BA
from a cout i believe
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turner
Any thoughts on him?
I know nothing about him, apart from the Boras factor maybe pushing him down.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on May 19, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only what's been reported recently.
He’s something of a late riser compared to the guys that I’m more familiar with. Anything about him would be me talking in generalities or out of my ass.
by NoNameOnCard on May 20, 2009 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let's say that the only guys
available to us at 14 are the ones that fall, whether due to health concerns (Scheppers), questionable ceiling (Green) or contract demands (Tate, Purke, Turner), how would you rank them and what is the max bonus you would pay them?
by Goyogringo on May 16, 2009 10:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
for the prepsters, it all depends
on their contract demands. I don’t think any of those guys are worth the bank and bullshit that goes into signing a prima dona high school kid. The problem is that agents will be pointing to Porcello and claiming they have the next guy like him, but there is not a high school guy in this draft who can shine Porcello’s cup. So if those guys slip to us, and they are all demanding 6M or they’ll go to school, then I pass on all of them and take a guy like Borchering, and then I would be much more aggressive with the supplemental and second round picks, therefore spreading the risk.
I could live with Green because I think the backlash against him this year is a little ridiculous, and Scheppers is a complete wildcard…all I can say is it isn’t worth taking a chance on damaged goods with this high of a pick, so if there are serious questions…pass.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 16, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wheeler, Miller, and Matzek
im hoping one of those 3 slides to us at 14
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 17, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Davidson 3b Yucaipa HS (Calif.)
any1 know where that kid is supposed to go in the draft? how high? he has a pretty sweet swing, and he has me kinda interested
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 17, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slade Heathcott Texas HS, Texarkana, TX
any1 have an idea of how early he goes? only thing i could find was this:
# Slade Heathcott will be interesting to watch on draft day. While he’s rumored to have a strong attachment to LSU, he should be a first-day selection regardless.
here’s a little info on this texas boy
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 17, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more Slade stuff
talk of convertion to a full time pitcher
and an interview on the same site
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 17, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the more i think about it the more i think that he really would be a fantastic pick at 44
but turley will be a steal for someone — high 80s, low 90s, hits his spots, has multiple good pitches, baylor signee fwiw
i hope the rangers are in on him
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 18, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know about him
hes in the same district as my brother
a few things on him:
-he was hurt most of the year…he hurt his knee (ACL) playing football, then he hurt his arm (shoulder) diving for a ball playing 3b. now hes hes academically ineligble for the playoffs
-that said, he was listed as one of the top two ways players in the draft in one of those ask BAs
hes a good player, i think ranked around #20 in the draft and it could have been much higher had he been healthy
another guy id love to see the rangers in on is a guy from the same school – josh turley. kid is a real pitcher…good stats, great kid. but really, hes the kind of guy i want the rangers to take a shot on. their school was 4A and has 4 diff pitchers who signed D1 – turley (baylor), heathcott (LSU), dudley (arkansas) and another kid (cant remember where hes going)
another guy from e texas (pitcher) is trevor peterson — kid can bring it as well, needs some help with offspeed stuff, but hes a good pitcher and another good kid.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 17, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he dislocated his shoulder
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 17, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Early 1st Supplemental
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 17, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The next in the "Guys Jason Likes and Wants the Rangers to Draft" series
Richard Shaffer 3b may end up at 1b Providence Sr. HS (N.C.)
lefit hitter, good hands, he’s fron NC and those kids learn good bal (see Milly, Matty, Hambone, Narron’s. best coaches i ever had were in NC), he’s a baseball rat like IK and Elvis etc, and we’d have control of him for the 40 man until anout the time smoak is a FA.
anyway. like his make up and his bat
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 18, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
supposed to say legit hitter
rather than lefit hitter
30hr power
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 18, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Shaffer a lot as well
I haven’t heard where he projects to be chosen, but I’d be very happy to land him in the 3rd round.
by naropean on May 19, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Hobgood, 6'4'', 245lb, RHP, Norco HS (Calif.)
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 18, 2009 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably a late 1st rounder
but yeah, there’s a lot of HS arms in this draft, but there’s two pretty distinct tiers so far.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 18, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chad James LHP 6'4'' 195 lbs. Yukon HS (Okla.)
lefties that mess around at 94 are nice
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 18, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can dig it
If all the best HS pitchers are gone and we gotta choose between guys like Leake, Oliver, and Brothers, then I wouldn’t mind snagging James with our first pick. And I, too, am interested in Hobgood should he somehow fall to us at 44. He and James are my favorites of the HS 2nd tier pitchers.
by naropean on May 18, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is their a dominant college releif arm that will be in the majors within a year of signing?
Projected in the 1st round?
by tyd3311 on May 18, 2009 2:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No
and drafting one is dumb
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 18, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were some drafted last year late teens/twenties...
If you were convinced that you had the next great closer who likely gets promoted to the majors by mid-season would you pick the guy in that range (not with our pick of course), say 18 and up?
by Goyogringo on May 18, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where was Ryan Perry picked?
Was he a college reliever?
by tyd3311 on May 18, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the supplemental round
is where i think you’ll start seeing some relief arms taken. the kid out of stanford and the kid out of florida are probably the top two. if for some reason they slide to the second round, i could be on board. i wouldn’t mind adding another strong relief option in our farm, if they guy has two truly plus pitches.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 18, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
does Kendall Volz fit this description?
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 19, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would be very happy
with volz in the second round. he could be slipping after a down year, and getting blasted by the worst team in the big XII could leave a bad taste in scouts’ mouths, but he is a power arm with two legit pitches who was miscast this year as a Friday night starter after looking like the preeminent late arm last summer.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right, but...
He hasn’t sniffed 95 all spring, not to mention the 98s he was putting up last summer as the Team USA closer.
Someone will take a chance on him, but if his fastball never gets back above 89-91, then he’s certainly not “elite”.
by NoNameOnCard on May 19, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder how far he could fall...
i could see his numbers jumping up a bit if he concentrated on relieving and better conditioning. He’s a guy who made a few top 10 lists among the college ranks to start the year, so if he slips into the second or third round, i hope we pull the trigger.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know if you go from throwing 95+ (consistantly)
to topping out at 91/high 80s — something is most def going on
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From March, my report on his last start in February...
http://www.texasleaguers.com/home/2009/3/18/scouting-kendal-volz-baylor-university.html
He had a small period of time since then (3-4 starts) where he looked like he might get back into the 1st round as a starter, but he tailed off pretty badly towards the end of the season. I think he could fall pretty far.
by NoNameOnCard on May 19, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much
do you attribute that to the fact his entire team seemed to drop off the face of the Earth? Do you think that had an impact on him at all?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 19, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baylor University probably needs a new pitching coach.
Volz had talent, but seems to have forgotten where he put it.
Tolleson’s mechanics are actually worse than they were in high school – after which he had Tommy John surgery before playing a game for Baylor.
Fritsch has talent, but can’t throw strikes or keep hitters off balance.
All of this scares the crap of out me for the future of Logan Verrett.
by NoNameOnCard on May 19, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mychal Givens
Any word on him? That brewerfan site has him listed at #15. If he is a legit SS that can hit, there is a ton of value in that.
Is this description accurate?
Super-athletic 2-way star with power arm and exciting potential as a SS
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 19, 2009 7:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Andy, NNOC, zy, etc
what do you guys think of heathcott?
also can someone with access to BA tell me (dont want a lot of pay info, just a simple question) tell me if josh turley, LHP, texarkana – texas high ranks according to BA?
some info on turley:
(from BA)
Josh Turley, lhp, Texas HS, Texarkana, Texas
fastball that sits between 84 and 85 mph. However, this is the second time I have seen Turley pitch, and it’s the second time that he has absolutely dominated the nation’s top high school hitters. The first time I saw him was at USA Baseball’s Tournament of Stars in June where he pitched five perfect innings, striking out 10. At the Area Code Games on Tuesday, Turley pitched two innings, striking out five of the six batters that he faced. Even more impressive, Turley threw only 19 total pitches in those five strikeout at-bats. He struck out the side in the first inning, throwing nine total pitches. Turley complements his fastball with a very good curveball, changeup and slider—commanding all four pitches well.
from PG USA — also has links to baseballwebtv if anyone has a subscription
Turley has an athletic build and uses a Hi 3.4 arm angle on the mound. He has an easy motion and his fastball sat in the mid 80’s this outing. His arm works well and he has good balanced mechanics. He has an outstanding change up with fade which looked like his best pitch and it is a doozy. He completes his three pitch mix with an excellent 72 mph curveball. He shows great pitchability and is a very effective finesse type LHP. He also is good in the outfield with good arm strength. He has good bat speed at the plate and solid hitting tools.
partial pitching stats (maxprep)
if your in the mesquite area you can go see him pitch tonight vs another D1 signee (cain)
According to Sunday edition of Texarkana Gazette the game between T-High and Waxahachie has been moved to Tillery Field at West Mesquite High School. Tillery Field is located south of Memorial Stadium off Military Parkway west of 635 South.
Should be a very tight game two of the best high school pitchers in the State of Texas on the mound.
Game still scheduled for 7:30 pm Tuesday (5/19/2009).
according to my brother (batted against him in 2 games this year + some over the summer + saw him pitch another 2-3 times this year) — he throws in the mid 80s, can bring it up close to 90 — kid may not throw super hard, but hes smart, and the guy is very successful at every level at which he has played…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from my searches
there is a fair amt of turley stuff behind the BA paywall
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
theres some video on givens here
http://www.saberscouting.com/2008/05/06/news-notes-the-last-week-part2/
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it time to open a second draft thread you think
just link back to this one?
also, another prospet site (its old info, but good for general scouting info/interesting to see compared to this time last year) — its dead now, but was agreat site while it lasted:
http://www.saberscouting.com/2008/07/16/hshot30top5/
and heres a few more:
http://www.saberscouting.com/2008/07/27/2009hshot30/#more-285
like i said, its from LAST year but it gives some more info
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 10:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I miss that site
very good coverage last year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 19, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
epic site, thats for sure
evidently they were using it as a resume of sorts until they got hired
…needless to say, they got hired
but they did a shitty thing in not even posting that there were closing it/ending it
unprofessional
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that site was great
and its disappearance pretty odd. That was the only free stuff out there next to Mayo’s profiles…
by Goyogringo on May 19, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a pretty great site
quickly became my 2nd fav behind LSB
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDaniel
is now at BP I think, where is the other writer?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 19, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the other one is in scouting now
for a NL team maybe?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 19, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dillon Baird, 3B, U of Arizona
does anyone know anything about him, specifically his defense? The kid can obviously hit.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
here is a solid
update/summary from BA’s John Manuel.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 2:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey
anyone up for a LSB mock draft?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 19, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i would be.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so would it be who you would draft at that position or who you think team x would draft at that position
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on May 19, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who you think team X would draft.
Let’s take a week or 2 to put it together. I just want to see if there’s that much interest
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 19, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea im in
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy's latest first round projection:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/5/19/880271/2009-amateur-draft-mock-6-round-one
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on May 19, 2009 5:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
new thread
so it can be back @ the top of the list lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 19, 2009 6:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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