Rob Neyer on the Rangers
Matt (Yardley, PA): It just came to my attention yesterday that the Rangers have a new pitching philosophy of sorts, patterned after the abilities of perhaps the most uniquely gifted player in the history of the game. Is this wise? Why would Nolan Ryan think that what worked for him would work for anyone else?Rob Neyer: That "philosophy" hasn't been articulated particularly well, and most of the Rangers' ERA improvement this season is due to their radically improved infield defense. So let's hold off for a while.
over 2 years ago
Adam J. Morris
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I agree that it hasn't been clearly "articulated"...
But my impression isn’t that he’s saying “be more like me”…my impression is that he’s saying "stand up, be a man, work more quickly, and don’t be afraid to throw 15-20 pitches more than you have in the past.—something that the organization will work up to. Is that too far off?
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
even if it hasn't been articulated
I’m guessing all of the starters are averaging more pitches per outing than the league average, no?
Neyer had a blog post up a few days ago specifically arguing that this was not a good thing (referencing Don Drysdale as an example).
But, just thinking about pitch counts, I’m wondering if my statement is true. I would imagine it is but not sure how much more they are this year than last
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Pitches per outing
is not as important to me (unless they’re just being left out there way too long) as pitchers per inning.
They’ve been better than average at pitches per plate appearance in both the rotation and the bullpen. The rotation is throwing more innings (and, therefore, more pitches) than most other rotations because they’re pitching well and getting good defense. The team defense is above average in double plays turned, and 2nd in the AL in efficiency.
All of this makes me not too worried about them running out of gas.
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i agree with this
although only to a certain extent. 15 pitches in the 1st inning is not the same as 15 pitches in the 8th. I think if you looked at all of the data, you would see some equilibrium points such that when a person is in the 1-50 pitch count, he can pitch 20 pitches per inning, but once he gets to 100-120, he can only go about 10 (those are completely random numbers but you get the idea).
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
to finish the point
total pitches being high is a good proxy for throwing too many pitches/inning when you are nearing a high pitch count
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Fine
but if anything, we’ve often seen these guys get more efficient as games wear on, particularly in the games they’ve pitched the longest. I don’t think, for example, that Padilla would have been left out there in his last couple of starts if he hadn’t started putting batters away more quickly. Likewise with McCarthy’s last couple of starts.
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of course
pitchers per inning is driven a lot by defense. When we had MYs minimal range at SS rather than 3B, it cost quite a few pitches per inning. One ball that a defender doesn’t get to that becomes a hit will effectively add around 4 more pitches to the inning.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
'pitchers' per inning
I’m certain that the Rangers have led the league in this some years.
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by t ball on May 26, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
if our rotation in exhausted in the second half
will Nolan get the same treatment Dusty Baker does for riding pitchers into the ground?
The thing with the rotation running out of gas
In years past, they’ve not so much run out of gas as sucked really, really bad early on. That meant they weren’t pitching many innings at any point of the season, this making the bullpen get too much work early on, making them run out of gas.
Now, the starters have been pitching so many innings that we’re worried about two or three guys in there not getting any work at all. If the starters do run out of gas, at least the bullpen won’t be so overworked and maybe that will mean more wins, and all because the starters were pitching a lot of innings at some point instead of at no point like last year.
articulated
Rob Neyer hasn’t been paying attention. Just like he wasn’t paying attention in 2007 when Nelson Cruz was the starting RF out of ST only to post a .551ops in his 43 games.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Bullpen Management
I would be willing to guess that if a poll were taken here about which aspect of the game Washington has trouble, bullpen management would be at the top. As it stands so far, the starters are averaging 6 and 1/3 innings a game. Last season the starters averaged 5 and 1/3 innings. That leaves 3 fewer outs for Washington to (mis?) manage.
Last season, CJ most often came into the game in the ninth inning, but only had one appearance when he pitched for more than one inning (1 time in 50 games = 0.02). This season, Francisco has had three multiple-inning appearances in 15 games (0.2). Yeah, yeah – sample size and all that; still it seems that Francisco is no longer just a “ninth inning guy”.
The new approach to pitching will be effective because there are fewer outs for Washington to manage, thereby minimizing his biggest weakness.
by Excel Hearts Choi on May 26, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions
I don't want to really defend Washington, but
I think it would be nearly impossible for any manager to look good managing a bullpen that had to pitch as many innings as the Rangers’ pen had to in 2008.
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'07 Bullpen
As many innings as the bullpen threw in ‘08, they threw an additional 20 and 2/3 innings in ’07. I had no idea just often those guys were worked until I looked it up. Maybe I am off in my critique of Washington’s biggest weakness; it does not take much to misuse a terribly overworked bullpen.
by Excel Hearts Choi on May 26, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd think the important thing to understand
Is where the break point is on an individual by individual basis. Which is pretty much where Maddux is coming from. For instance, 130 pitches for Millwood may not alter his ability to throw what he throws. Padilla is an anomaly, he can have it, lose it, and get it back (uncommon). Feldman appears to be getting used to throwing more but still may be vulnerable a third time around. (These are opinions, not substantiated with a study).
In any case, the better conditioning and preparation to stay out longer has to help, both from a durability and to prevent any loss of command due to exhaustion. And even when a starter is not on top of his game, the big benefit is to reduce the load on the bullpen, which in turn gives a manager a major break in late inning flexibility. That can win games that are iffy. And winning iffy games sure helps a team’s record.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on May 26, 2009 2:07 PM CDT reply actions
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