New Top 20 ranking
by Jamey Newberg on May 28, 2009 7:51 AM CDT
113 comments
The latest installment of my weekly ranking of the top 20 prospects in the Rangers’ farm system was posted this morning on the official Rangers website, www.texasrangers.com.
A little shakeup near the top this week . . . .
Here’s a direct link to the column:
Also, please note that the column is set up to allow fan comments at the bottom of the page.
I need eight more words. Now three more.
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I like your willingness to change up the rankings, but
I still (personally) value Feliz a lot more than Perez
Also, is Boscan’s injury held against him? He’s been incredible, and I like him more than Beavan (and maybe Kiker)… the guy has been nasty (numbers-wise)
by BuckyB on May 28, 2009 8:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not meant to be accusatory...
…but have you seen Perez pitch?
by Jamey Newberg on May 28, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not based in anything
I guess my extremely amateur position is that Feliz’s fastball will be able to carry the rest of his pitches, which can only get better. Hopefully Perez’s change-up is able to do the same… I also just appreciate how close Feliz is to becoming and remaining a Ranger. Conversely, Perez still has a couple years to screw up what he’s got going… Good debate to have to have, though
by BuckyB on May 28, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have. He's a wonder.
An A/A- prospect right now.
I’d still rate Neffy a bit higher just cause of proximity and the overall risk factors associated with an 18 year old low-A pitching prospect, but Martin is really, really good.
Special prospect.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly right.
Feliz gets points for being closer (partly because it makes him less of an injury risk). But since I measure by stomach ache factor, I went with MP.
by Jamey Newberg on May 28, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting. Thanks, The.
- I’d go Feliz, Smoak, Perez, but those three are basically interchangeable as our top guys. They’re a level above everyone else.
- I can’t see the justification in Main number 4. He hasn’t been good. At all. I know the ceiling is still intoxicating, but 4 is way higher than I’d be willing to rate him. The k/bb is putrid for a guy with supposedly “ace” stuff. He must be a great looking prospect in person, cause statistically it’s hard for me to put him in the top 10 right now.
- I think Boscan’s too low, but in fairness he is coming off an injury. Are you downgrading for the injury here? He’s my number 4 guy right now.
- Manny Pina is not a very good prospect and should not be in the top 20. A guy who ceilings out as a lesser Molina brother-esque backup catcher?
- Color me super skeptical regarding Kirkman. He’s never really been good before and I worry about him sustaining it in AA. Who knows, though.
- Nice to see Brigham still performing. I have to think he’ll be moving up soon.
- Beltre’s really coming on. Great to see.
- Sigh… Lemon.
- I can’t wait until Cankles, NeRa and Robbie Ross can start getting some full season innings under their belts and get some serious consideration for this list.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Has Robbie pitched this year?
and who is Cankles?
by BuckyB on May 28, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No and Joe Wieland.
Go Rangers...don't suck...
by Kinslerhomer on May 28, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirkman's got something
I thought his Frisco debut went a lot better than what his line indicated.
And you seem to have a double standard going on relative to performance in the Cal League. Main is struggling there, so you seem to be down on him, yet Kirkman dominated there and you don’t seem to want to give him credit for that.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 28, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main is 20 and Kirkman is like 23.
Go Rangers...don't suck...
by Kinslerhomer on May 28, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's 22
But that is really beside the point. I thought that Dirkatron was discounting Main strictly for performance reasons (which I think is understandable), but at the same time was discounting the strong performance of Kirkman in the same league. I was just commenting about what appeared to me to be 2 completely opposite criteria for evaluating the 2 pitchers that I mentioned.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 28, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh, ignore the random bolding
I was trying to emphasize “performance” in both the first and second clauses of that second sentence.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 28, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at all. Kirkman's Bakersfield performance has placed him firmly on my radar, and he wasn't really coming into the season. That's quite a leap, actually.
I just wanna see more before I fully take the plunge.
Did you see his Frisco debut? Seems like you did. If so, what did you think?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought his stuff looked pretty legit
I was watching on TV so I didn’t have radar readings, but I thought his stuff was good. He suffered from a very tight strike zone, but he can get his fastball by folks and he was pretty consistent in hitting his target, keeping the ball low, and working both sides of the plate. Slider looked good also, got some silly looking swings on it and Kirkman appeared to be able to throw it in the strike zone when they were looking and in the dirt when they were swinging.
I think he could be a ML starter if he continues to develop, and anybody that reaches AA and could reasonably be in a ML rotation is a pretty interesting prospect. Plus I loves me some lefties.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, his stuff certaintly seems there
any lefty that can bring it between 91-94 has got a really good start. Add that to two breaking pitches and hopefully the control continues to improve, and he could certaintly make it as a ML starter
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on May 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His three-quarters delivery
reminds me of CJ Wilson. So did his electric fastball and early control issues.
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on May 28, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not so much a double standard as it is an apples and oranges comparison.
I’ve come up quite a bit on Kirkman. He penis-punched the Cal league pretty hard this year. It’s just that I’m not ready to fully believe yet.
He’s older and he’s yet to have sustained success like this as a pro.
Obviously the longer he keeps missing bats like crazy and the more glowing scouting reports we read regarding an uptick in his overall stuff, the easier it’s gonna be to believe.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, as you might have noticed
I tend to be easily swayed by short runs of dominant performance (looking at you Max) and get overly excited about a guy that puts together a couple great months. Admittedly, my perspective ain’t the best.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 28, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Max still at number 11 is the most curious one for me
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on May 28, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you'd think he'd be dropping
If a catcher who can’t catch, and now is having problems hitting in AAA is our 11th best prospect, then our system isn’t as deep as we thought.
2 weeks of not hitting is a slump.
4 weeks of not hitting is a pattern
2 months of not hitting is a cause for concern.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
by DJCahill on May 28, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz and foul-offs
During Neftali’s last appearance the OKC radio guy talked about Feliz’ probs with inefficiency chewing up his pitch-limits and producing useless low-inning outings. He said Feliz will find himself in spots where he’s unable to put away guys quickly as foul-offs and pitches mount – deep counts and walks resulted.
Byers opined that a bat-misser like Feliz may have a hard time buying into the notion of pitching-to-contact. It just goes against all his experience and nature, he conjectured. But, until he learns to let guys get themselves out by putting the ball in play it’s gonna be hard for him to stay on the mound and chew up innings.
This view reflects my experience watching Feliz w/Frisco last season – foul-off fests chewed up his pitch-total and produced deep counts, walks and RISP opps for the enemy. It’s hard to pronounce a strike-out guy like Feliz as having trouble putting guys away, but to my eye, he freakin’ had a hard time putting guys away on occasion and trouble always seemed to follow.
Kiker – I’ve never been a “Kiker is destined for the bullpen because he’s little” guy, but I’m quickly becoming a “Kiker is destined for the bullpen because he racks up pitch-counts like crazy” guy. He misses bats and his BAA numbers are great – yay! He can’t stay in the game and save the bullpen most nights because he’s so inefficient – boo! How do you fix that? Seems like a future valuable Ranger lefty bullpen arm to me – maybe even as soon as next season.
by shroomer on May 28, 2009 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kiker and Feliz
With Feliz is it more because his secondary stuff isn’t that great which leads to all these foul-fests?
And with Kiker is he trying to strike everyone out which leads to the high pitch counts? I wonder if he needs to try and pitch to contact a little more.
I know both OKC and Frisco don’t have the level of defense that the ML club has which may contribute to guys not wanting to pitch to contact and coaches not really pushing it very hard.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on May 28, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who makes the next jump to Frisco?
Beavan, Main or ???
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on May 28, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats a tough one
If its anytime soon I would imagine it would be Kennil Gomez.
However if no one is needed in Frisco for another month or so I could see Beavan or Main getting the call if they keep this up
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on May 28, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one right now.
Everyone’s pitching either “meh” or just downright shitty down there right now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neil Ramirez
I know he hasnt pitched but shouldnt Neil Ramirez be in the top 20? He was great last season and was a 1st round pick. Do you really think Zach Phillips is the better prospect?
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Finnerty
Neil has some things to prove. I wouldn’t rule out the idea that he proves himself, and quickly, once he gets to Hickory.
Interesting Moscoso piece on your blog.
by Jamey Newberg on May 28, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I hope that by interesting you mean good. It was a short piece but I think my point was made.
Any idea when Ramirez goes to Hickory or will he go to Spokane?
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything on your blog is of course good.
Compared to the greatness that is Crops on the Farm all other Ranger related content on the web looks like one of them butt-colored flipper babies from Mexico you’re always seeing on TV.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
But there’s really no point in having him go back to the NWL after what he accomplished there last summer.
by Jamey Newberg on May 28, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope
we get a Hunter piece up on Crops with his callup.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
by DJCahill on May 28, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me guess
Guillermo MoscosoTommy Hunterdespite his stunning game yesterday,is not a legit prospect. He is simplytoo old,too skinny, too weak, and lacks the fastball to make it at the professional level. FoolingkidsAAA playersthat are years younger than youis much easier than trying to fool the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox
i win i win
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone calls Tommy Hunter too skinny... :)
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
listed at
Height: 6’ 3"
Weight: 255
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed?
Guillermo MoscosoTommy Hunter despite his stunning game yesterday, is not a legit prospect. He simply has too big of an ass. I mean, have you seen that thing? It could stop a locomotive.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on May 28, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
crops overall viewpoint:
Guillermo Moscoso despite his stunning game yesterday, is not a legit prospect. He is simply too old, too skinny, too weak, and lacks the fastball to make it at the professional level. Fooling kids that are years younger than you is much easier than trying to fool the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you ignore many facts about him
1) yes he is older but he is also coming off of a fairly major injury
2) he was the best pitcher in the minor leagues last year at swing and miss (was discussed in the offseason- — search for it) and only behind lincecum in all of baseball i believe
Just to review, here were his top five pitchers at missing bats last season:
1. Madison Bumgarner: +32 at Low-A (141.2-111-21-164); MBR: 0.23
2. Tommy Hanson: +23 at High-A (40-15-11-49); +3 at Double-A (98-70-41-114); MBR: 0.19,
3. Neftali Feliz: +23 at Low-A (82-55-28-106); -10 at Double-A (45.1-34-23-47); MBR: 0.10
4. Wilkins De La Rosa: +11 at Low-A (90.1-60-39-110); -2 at High-A (16.1-12-5-15); MBR: 0.08
5. Trevor Cahill: +21 at High-A (87.1-52-31-103); -10 at Double-A (37-24-19-33); MBR: 0.08
To summarize, the five best pitchers had MBR ratios ranging from from 0.23 to 0.08. Well, Moscoso only pitched 87 innings, so he was just shy of the 100 inning minimum that Goldstein set. But check him out:
Guillermo Moscoso (cumulative): +41, 0.47
He blew them away. He was basically the best pitcher in the minors last year at missing bats
per zywica
now while hes not neftali feliz, you act like hes going to be a d mathis-type prospect….
3) he didnt come to america until he was 21, so its not like hes been sucking it up in the DSL and short season for years
4) he wasnt the prize in the laird deal btw, that was melo
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To quote Paul Harvey,
“…and now you know the rest of the story”
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The crops post
was much more persuasive.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
by DJCahill on May 28, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe what you want
You can use any formula you want to make Moscoso the player you want him to be. The fact is that he is older than most prospects, injury prone, thin framed, and still in AA. Do you have any formulas that can disprove those facts? Is coming off a “fairly major injury” suppose to make me feel better about his prospect status?
The player I see is not a legit prospect. The player you see is. That’s fine.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we need to know
is “Crops on the Farm” a parody of Newberg’s “Farm Crops” — if so, let me just commend you on your growing genius.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on May 28, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what do you consider a legit prospect?
from ranger rundown (lucas)
moscoso:
lucas 20 of 72
sickles 13 of 24
baseball america 23 of 31
moscoso is a top 25 (fairly easily) prospect in a top 2 farm system in the game — now is that a top 100 guy? no.
but is that a guy that has a shot to actually have a major league career? yes.
is that a guy that has a shot to have an effect on the major league team? yes.
the facts are the facts
-he is older than his level should be. he is thin (this means he cant be good?).
-he also is coming off an injury (would add to the fact that he is old for his level)
-he also came to the ’states late (this means he cant be a prospect?).
-he was the best player in the minor leagues last year at getting swings and misses
-he is in AA
-he is on the 40 man
to completely dismiss him for these reasons is pretty foolish
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
To use those as examples why I dont think he is a legit prospect is an opinion. My opinion. We don’t have to share the same opinion. You made a case for Moscoso. I made a case against him. I wasn’t convinced by your case. Your swings and misses argument is as thin as Moscosos. Is Wilkins De Le Rosa a legit prospect? He was on your list.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too old?
I suppose Nelson Cruz, David Murphy, Josh Hamilton, Scott Feldman, and hundreds of other big league players who were 26-years-old in the minors were all just exceptions.
I’m curious as to how you judge whether or not a player is “weak,” since baseball players typically don’t bench at the NFL scouting combine.
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on May 28, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feldman
He made it to the majors at 22 and pitched 41 innings at age 23. Murphy made it up at 24 and he isn’t very good, so I’m not sure how that helps you.
Moscoso is 160 pounds, has been injured most of his career and isnt going to “develop” anymore. So yeah I think he might be a little weak. Perhaps a better word is fragile.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ummm
like roy oswalt (6’ 170 pounds) fragile?
or more like billy wagner (5’8" 180 pounds) fragile?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
coutning the 10.5 million dollars he's making this year
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on May 28, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
He’s not on the mound. Great argument.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he got hurt after 700+ appearences in the big leagues
and he had to get TJ , which is obviously what happened because he was only weighed 180 pounds, right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep holding onto this
It’s all you have. Make a better case.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your arguement is that GM isnot good because
he is short, thin and not strong
thats a complete and utter logic fail. this isnt 1980. we now know that you dont have to be 6’6" , 280 to be a good pitcher
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument
also mentioned that he has been injury prone and that he is going to be 26 this season and he is still in AA. You keep forgetting this.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're frustrated as hell right now.
Cause you deserve some pain for arguing with this flipper baby.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No shit.
Quit it kok!
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on May 28, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im done haha
i was in a pissed mood at work and figured it was better to take it out on the crops guy than someone @ work/on phone haha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
:)
.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on May 28, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha thanks
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You continue to amaze...
…flipper baby. Wow.
by GhettoBear04 on May 28, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
flipper baby?
wtf?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 29, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
clearly the fact that he got hurt
after 12 years of 45+ appearences at the major league level is a telling figure
or after appearing in 765 games and earning 75+ million…clearly that shows that he is fragile
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need to be a big, strapping fella.
Like Pedro.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Pedro
have a long detailed history of injury and still stuck in AA at age 26? Another great argument.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your arguement
in part is that hes not going to be good because he is
“
Moscoso is 160 pounds, has been injured most of his career and isnt going to "develop" anymore. So yeah I think he might be a little weak. Perhaps a better word is fragile.”
and that he is
“too skinney and too weak”
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read this part
Has been injured most of his career. I guess you missed that part. Keep clinging to this.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really an argument.
Just pointing out baseball ain’t the NFL scouting combine. They succeed in all shapes and sizes.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are the exceptions not the norm
You aren’t making a very good case to why I should think Moscoso is a legit prospect. He has been injured his entire career, he is older than most players in AA and he doesn’t exactly have a promising build. I’m sorry, I’m just not convinced. You have one stat that you keep using and that seems to be it.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
age
Do you happen to even know what the median age is in the Texas League?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on May 28, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
I’m guessing that most of the players considered prospects in AA are younger than Moscoso.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to look at the whole case
he started in the US late (not at 17-18 like many latin players)
he had an injury, which pushed him further back age/league wise
its not like he was 26 blowing fastballs past DSL players here…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries
Can you give us some details on Moscoso’s injury history?
Median age in the TL is 24.5. According to Scott lLucas, 50% of the players fall in the range of 23.3 – 25.6. Moscoso is one on them as are many other prospects.
http://rangers.scottlucas.com/site/2009minorage.htm
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on May 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because its a pretty good stat to use
to show how dominant he was last year
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They appeared, but didn't stick
Dude, you just sound stubborn and ridiculous. It sounds like you read some arbitrary scouting notes on a baseball card, and are clinging to that bogus criteria in the face of other better, measurable evidence.
It’s your blog, and you’re of course free to do as you please, but in case you haven’t noticed, nobody is coming to your defense. It’s okay to be wrong, it’s okay to learn. Stop being so stubborn and open your mind a little.
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on May 28, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except those ARE facts
he is old for AA
he is coming off an injury
he came to the united states at 21
he, by KG at baseball prospectus’ metric, was the best pitcher in the minor leagues at getting swing and misses
he is on the rangers 40 man roster
—
de le rosa’s facts:
-he was converted to a pitcher LAST YEAR
-he has not piched at the upper minors
-he, according to KG at BP was the #5 pitcher in the minor leagues at getting swing and misses
-he is on the yankees 40 man
-he is a legit top 15 prospect for a middle of the road major league team (yankees) – sickles ranked him their #11 prospect fwiw
is he neftali feliz? no
is he a top 100 guy? no
he is a a guy with a shot to have an impact on a ML team that the yankees thought was one of their better prospects and was worth adding to their 40 man
the guy, in his first EVER 130 innings of pitching had a k/9 over 11 and had a bb/9 of just under 4 …
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody thought Kris Benson was worth a spot on the 40 man roster
The Rangers added John Bannister to the 40 man roster and he sucks. 40 man rosters can contain filer. They aren’t all stars. They aren’t all players who will contribute.
You still didnt convince me of anything.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so thats your response to everything else?
you ignore his stats from his first time EVER as a pitcher (very good K rate, good BB rate) and the fact that he was according to one stat the 5th most dominant pitcher in the minor leagues last year — because all that matters is that people on the 40 man werent too good?
and so you know: kris benson’s CAREER era+ is 101, so its not like hes luis mendoza or the tona pena jr of pitchers…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA ranked De La Rosa
as the Yankes #19 best prospect. They had the 15th best system. I’m sorry if I’m not impressed.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your not impressed by much
whose a prospect you do like?
you would probably trade neftali feliz, michael main and david price (who isnt doing well at AAA) for blake beavan, omar poveda, and manny pina — right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if you only go on what BA ranked him...
thast not really smart either. he was ranked 19 by BA, 11 by sickles and 12 by a yankees prospect site and was ranked btw 12 and 14 by kevin goldstein
moscoso was ranked det’s #10 prospect — so what does that mean? — does that validate it him?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no you just have shitty arguements
and quite clearly dont know shit about prospects or how to gauge prospects i nthe least bit
you probably came over here from the DMN rangers blog
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Thanks for that. As I just mentioned below I get the hint. Its not cool to have different opinions on players. I get it. Sorry for attempting for starting this debate. I usually enjoy your posts quite a bit.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no its cool to have a differing opinion
but you need to back your shit up with more than “gut feelings” and bad logic or you seem like the ron washington of the prospect world
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except for more of a cuntbag
end this madness!
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 28, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep telling yourself
that three inches is average.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The break of a 12-6 or 11-5?
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a drop down pitch!
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I only used gut feeling
but whatever. Despite the argument I do like debating with you. You know your stuff and I always come away with something that I didn’t know. Thanks.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well what did you use?
your arguements are:
1) “hes going to turn 26”/“not a kid”
2) “fastball isnt a burner”
3) “6’1 and 165 pounds”
4) “still in AA”
5) “Guillermo Moscoso despite his stunning game yesterday, is not a legit prospect. He is simply too old, too skinny, too weak, and lacks the fastball to make it at the professional level. Fooling kids that are years younger than you is much easier than trying to fool the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox.”
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
His age isn’t a gut feeling.
His fastball velocity isn’t a gut feeling.
His size isn’t a gut feeling
His current level isnt a gut feeling
Then I gave my opinion. That’s all it is. It s just my opinion. I backed it up by bringing up his injuries,his age, and his frame which I think are legit reasons to be cautious about him.
Don’t you see how those reasons might give someone hesitation about him as a prospect?
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hang in there Finnerty Fan
I think your argument is pretty solid and the outlash against you is has been unprovoked and juvenile.
Personally, I think Moscoso might provide some value as a ML reliever, but the points that you bring up are very real and valid.
"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16
by tricer on May 29, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give up there Finnery Fan
I think your argument is re-diculous. The outlash against you is deserved and warranted.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on May 30, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you arguing with this cuntbag?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 28, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because you're a cunt bag
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
by FirebatM3 on May 28, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I hope it makes you feel better. You obviously have offer issues to deal with.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you just made at me
because you feel inferior to people on a message board? That you like to come on here and pretend to know what you are talking about and be rude to people who have never even said anything to you? You know, I find it insulting that you would say something like that. I never did anything to deserve that type of comment. Are you that small? Do you really need to compensate that much? Unbelievable. I get it. LSB isn’t for me. Thats fine. I get the hint.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, yes...
…when your arguments don’t work, attack the person. Good plan, I see it working out well for you here.
by GhettoBear04 on May 28, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was the one who was attacked.
Did you not read the post I replied to? I was called a c*nt bag. I guess I shouldnt have defended myself. Jesus you guys are rough on me.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 28, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's just a cuntbag
don’t worry about it.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on May 30, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're sitting close to CF tomorrow.
I know a guy that word would be perfect for.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
by scoop16 on May 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 28, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody thought
Benson was a good spot-holder for the first few weeks of a season we weren’t likely to be competitive in, and someone we could drop with no real consequence once higher-end replacements were ready.
by Keynes on May 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neftali Feliz isn't that good
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on May 28, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Age isn't as much of an issue for pitcher
TheSouthWing.com - A Magazine of essays, prose and poems
by OldProspects on May 31, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good news!
If Crops hates him, he’s probably about to reel off six or seven straight Cy Young quality years.
by Keynes on May 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss those heady days of Diamond and Hurley
in the top 20. Now those guys weren’t too small or too weak.
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on May 28, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no they just werent that good lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."
by knockoutking on May 28, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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