Rangers stats of the day
by Adam J. Morris on May 28, 2009 12:30 PM CDT
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PrintRangers stats by position...
1B -- 682 OPS, 14th in the A.L.
2B -- 930 OPS, 1st in the A.L.
3B -- 932 OPS, 2nd in the A.L.
SS -- 808 OPS, 4th in the A.L.
LF -- 764 OPS, 8th in the A.L.
CF -- 750 OPS, 7th in the A.L.
RF -- 922 OPS, 1st in the A.L.
C -- 687 OPS, 9th in the A.L.
DH -- 888 OPS, 1st in the A.L.
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.888 being first for DH 7 weeks into the season is ridiculous.
the preceding post was a great success.
Yep
And it highlights the problem with the “you have to trade a strong defensive 1B who is a great hitter because they are too valuable to DH” line of reasoning.
by Adam J. Morris on May 28, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
uh, no it doesn't
explain your logic.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
so you're not going to explain?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
ie having AGon at DH
would be a waste of his glove. theoretically, he’d be more valuable as a trade piece with a team giving value for his glove and bat.
Man, I love winning! You know? It's like better than losing!
in
an extreme pitchers park.
Home 259/364/459
Away 276/360/526
Kind of the Anti-Kinsler.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
that away
should be
310/406/782.
Typed the wrong line
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
well that screws up my response
But whatever. Adrian Gonzalez is a great hitter. And everytime I see those numbers I’m angry that Buck couldn’t figure out how to get both him and Tex in the lineup.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
or get better value for him
or perhaps the deficiency was correctly assessing his value
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Buck was efficiently and effectively deficient at baseball.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
I came here to split hairs. And you?
by inactive lsb user on May 28, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
you'll make yourself crazy
playing that game.
Man, I love winning! You know? It's like better than losing!
isn't that the opposite of what adam is saying?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
yeah
he’s saying that theory is invalid b/c apparantly the average DH aint much of a hitter afterall.
Man, I love winning! You know? It's like better than losing!
4th best avg OPS for DH
I wouldn’t call that bad
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
i dont' see how that invalidates the theory
basically adam is trying to say the average DH is not much of a hitter so the good hitting DH has more value than one gives him credit for?
1) We should look at value by position rather than just value on its own? If I have:
WAR/Off/Def
9/6/3
9/6/3
I should play them at 1b/DH with a combined WAR of 15 because the average DH WAR is lower? Seems counterintuitive. if the average WAR at DH is lower, I should be able to get a replacement DH easier but if I get full value int he trade, I might be able to get a more difficult position to fulfill
2) this is a really weird position. Does this apply to Kinsler as well? Are we fine in moving Kinsler to DH and bringing up Vallejo (assuming Vallejo is above average offensively)? The league average shouldn’t really affect you decision making that much
3) Is the average DH actually markedly worse than the average 1B? all we know is that the top DH is at 888. 1 team.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I fully agree with you
In your example of two players who are 9/6/3, you (in theory) should be able to trade one of them for a guy who is 8/7/1, or even better, someone who is 8/10/-2. We know those 8/10/-2 guys exist out there – the Rangers typically always have a few of them hanging around.
The thing about that DH position is that it negates that last column. Any positive value lost in that defensive column is just disappearing value. Since defensive value is becoming a more fairly priced in the baseball market, some team should be willing to pay you fair value for him.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
hmm
ok. I think I understand how Adam might be right.
The idea has lots of assumptions. It assumes that you don’t trade Davis for a DH but trade him for a different position. Assume also that once you trade davis, you replace him with the average DH. If the average DH is low, then the replacement is not contributing as much. Now, you have to make sure that the person that you traded Davis for is contributing more than his replacement.
But this does make a number of assumptions that probably won’t hold. Additionally, it seems like an anomaly that the average DH is lower than the 1b. In 2007 it was roughly the same (eyeballing) and in 2008 it was higher (eyeballing)
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
x
I see what you’re saying. That is a lot of assumptions, and basically amounts to Davis (or Smoak) would be at least a league average DH, so why go and trade them for one.
It may be that Adam’s argument is that you can’t get fair value back for a 1b whose value is partially defined by his defense, and he may have a point. While defense is becoming more fairly valued around the league, it is possible, even probable, that 1b defense won’t be valued nearly as much as it should. But I don’t think you should rule out a trade of one of them because you don’t think you could get fair value back.
I guess I was making the opposite assumption – that you could get fair value back – and that may be a poor assumption.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
I think Adam's saying
that when teams say “1B defense is too important to DH a good fielder who also has a good bat”, they play crappier players at DH.
Hence an .888 OPS DH being good for first in the league.
Fortunately the question isn't valid
since the Rangers only have one strong defensive 1b who is a great hitter in their organization.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
Smoak
I don’t think we really know what his defensive skills are right now.
Regardless, with our desperate need for players with high (or even decent) OBP and Davis clearly not at the high point of his value, trading either one of them right now doesn’t seem like a good idea.
by Darrell McKown on May 28, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just being snide.
I’ve always been uncomfortable with the idea of building a 6 year plan around Davis and Smoak – Davis has always struck me as someone who rose really fast despite big question marks that people tended to overlook, and Smoak hadn’t had any real professional experience. I have always felt that we’d be lucky if just one of them ended up a very good long-term solution.
I didn’t want to be right about either, and fortunately it looks like Smoak is every bit as good as his hype has suggested. Unfortunately we all know that Davis has had his problems.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
Still early for both
I agree. I just think it’s funny that a few months ago everyone “knew” that Smoak would be the better glove at 1B, and now suddenly, everyone is disparaging his defense. I’ve seen comments from his coaches on the farm that they’re still working on it, but none of them say they expect him to be a liability out there.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I don't think it does
If you are really getting fair value for the strong defensive 1B, then I think the line of reasoning is correct.
For example, if the strong defensive 1B has an OPS of .900, then fair value in a trade might be a Kevin Reimer-type defensive player who has an OPS of 1.000. That supports trading the player with the skill you can’t use for a player with a higher skill that you can use.
Now, if you are going to give him away like we did with Gonzalez, then sure it’s a bad deal. But the theory is absolutely correct.
by Darrell McKown on May 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never understood that line of reasoning
because I haven’t seen the market reward 1B defensive skills particularly well.
The only reason to trade away a good defensive 1B rather than play him at DH is that you believe you will be rewarded in the trade market for doing so, and I haven’t seen it. What I see rewarded are primarily offensive skills.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
well
that is obviously the only way it works. It all hinges on whether someone is willing to pay the market for a defensive 1B. if they don’t, dont’ trade him. simple as that.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
x
that is obviously the only way it works. It all hinges on whether someone is willing to pay the market for a defensive 1B. if they don’t, dont’ trade him. simple as that.
Theoretically, that’s fine. The reality is that I don’t necessarily think you’ll be able to get equal value back, and fill your DH hole with a similar player, as easily as you suggest.
by Adam J. Morris on May 28, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
In other words, just because you have Prince Fielder, doesn’t mean you trade Matt LaPorta, unless you’re getting CC Sabathia back.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Zack Lee?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.
by thedirkatron on May 29, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
well we can slug home runs
and don’t let these numbers cloud you into thinking this is a great offensive team.
it’s home run or bust with these guys
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
OBP ranks
MLB - AL
C – 21 8
1B – 29 14
2B – 11 7
SS – 6 4
3B – 7 3
RF – 17 10
CF – 27 13
LF – 20 8
Based on this, I could see why Andrus could be a good 2-hitter, and his overall contact rate.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
can you tell us whre you got them?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
That is really depressing.
This team needs to start taking walks.
I expected to see 1B bad…but our outfield? Yikes.
What is truly shocking
is that the Diamondbacks 1b have a lower OBP than the Rangers.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
i was shocked by that as well
chad tracy is a beating and doesn’t have the HRs
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
SS
wow
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
No joke.
I’ll take that from the kid any day of the week. That kind of OBP (even if it is based on high contact) and his defense?
Yes please!!
Wrong conclusion
Based on this I could see why shortstops in general are not good at the top of the lineup.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I think
playing the “Hot Hand” between Murphy and Byrd would probably help LF. Murph was ice cold early in the season, but he is definitely getting good ABs and seeing the ball well now. Byrd on the other hand is coming up hacking.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
i wonder where Salty would rank
without Teagarden pulling him down
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Well hes 6th out of 10 for AL catchers with 125 plate appearences.
the preceding post was a great success.
This just shows Hamilton is the cog.
Once CF is top 2-3, and not 7, I think we have a domino effect.
But I’m an optimist, when I go fishing I bring a Nikon and a frying pan.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
what an awesome line
did you just think of that?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Stolen
from an interview w/ the always entertaining David Lee Roth, years ago.
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
The CF should go up now that Hamilton is healthy.
The low showing by our supposed glut of talented catchers is not good.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
Yeah, I'm not worried about CF, C and 1B are the areas I'm most worried about.
1B will get fixed sooner or later. Eventually CD will hit, or they will send him to the minors. He is just sucking way too much ass offensively to keep at the major league level indefinitely at this rate. 1B at the Mendoza lines just don’t keep jobs indefinitely.
Catcher, I’m less optimistic about. In some ways, I’m used to it. After all, this is what we have seen since Pudge:
Popup as a Ranger .253/.294/.444
Engelberg as a Ranger .255/.306/.383
Salty ’09 .252/.301/.417
So, as you can see, while Barajas has probably been our best post-Pudge catcher, its a SLGonly lead. Salty is still young and developing. Since he appears to have spent most of the offseason developing his defensive game, we shouldn’t be too surprised to see the offense is somewhat stalled.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
Catcher
I’m still optimisitc that Saltalamacchia will be fine, i.e., something between a .750 – .800 OPS, which is clearly playable for a catcher.
As you said, 1B has got to improve one way or the other. Also, I think Hamilton may end up in LF, which would help that position and I suspect Borbon can match the .750 that we have gotten out of CF to date.
However, we will also likely see some decline at 3B and DH.
by Darrell McKown on May 28, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think its safe to say
we could see some rolloff at those 2 positions.
I still think LF and CF can improve just because Hamilton really, really sucked before the DL. He wasn’t patient, he went almost a month without a walk. He’s been looking OK since he was back. Still maybe hacking a bit too much but his numbers are coming up.
LF can improve with more Murphy. Say what you want about him, but both he and Byrd are streaky. When either are hot, you might as well plug him in. they’ll score runs in bunches, and then stop hitting altogether next month. As long as either gets hot, make playing time for them.
I still think there is something to be said that the key to this team is its depth, and trying to get players who are seeing the ball well into the lineup, and those that are slumping out of the lineup.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
Wash really needs to extract as much value
out of that platoon.
It kind of scares me that Wash could very well be the difference between taking the division and missing the playoffs. Between juggling the lineup and managing the bullpen, he’s got to play the cards perfect for things to break right.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
I came here to split hairs. And you?
by inactive lsb user on May 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
LF
I’m fine with some combination of Murphy, Byrd, Jones and even Boggs out there for the moment. If you match them up correctly, you shouldn’t get hurt with that group.
That said, if Borbon could essentially match that production (and hopefully give you a .350 OBP) and play a solid CF, you get the same production, better defense, and lessen the odds of Hamilton getting hurt.
A lineup of Davis, Kinsler, Andrus and Young in the infield and Cruz, Borbon and Hamilton in the outfield, with Salty catching, probably just leaves us with one below average defensive position (3B).
by Darrell McKown on May 28, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess
because Borbon’s numbers in the minors aren’t wowing me (.289/.342/.369 ), I tend to doubt he’ll give me 350 OBP in the majors, and that bringing him up essentially isn’t any better than riding what I have.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
'Borbon can match the .750"
He’s barely cracking 700 now (although he has inched his avg/obp gap yp to about half a point, which is encouraging).
That seems a ways off. Whe are you anticipating him doing this?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on May 28, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Borbon
His OPS was about .790 last year, including .837 in AA. It’s a very small sample size, but he’s over .900 for the last couple of weeks so hopefully he’s coming around after a really bad April.
by Darrell McKown on May 28, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
The one thing about Salty
I think during the post trade analysis, he was being sold as a big bat C who could play 1B because of his bat.
His bat obviously hasn’t lived up to that hype, which is probably why some are a little down on him.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
His bat was horrible last year
But its coming around this year. And since he is the youngest of our catchers I am willing to give him some leeway. He has shown good plate discipline before so we know he CAN do it. Seeing him more aggressive this year has been good for me. So whether its this year or next when he starts mixing that aggression with the discipline hes shown in the past I think he’ll be a really good catcher.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm definitely on the side of giving him leeway
1) He’s hitting about as well as Barajas and Laird did as Rangers, and he is still very young. He currrently isn’t as good as Barajas, but better than Laird, but he can definitely be better than both of them.
2) It appears he worked on his defense during the offseason.
3) We really don’t have a significantly better option this year.
I don’t think he will ever hit like Mike Piazza Jr., like some were thinking after the trade, but he should be a productive Catcher.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
I'm too lazy to look this up because I know others already have
but don’t the elite catchers often start hitting a little bit later, due to attention to defense?
I’m certainly satisfied with where Salty is and where I think he will be after another offseason to focus on the bat.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
I came here to split hairs. And you?
by inactive lsb user on May 28, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah,
tough to get real down on Salty after seeing the improved defense, and seeing that his offense is almost exactly at the level of other previous Ranger catchers. With his youth, you should see development.
Its not like he is a black sucking hole in the lineup. He’s a little below average offensively, but he is still young, and its not like the Rangers have other options anyway. You might as well keep rolling him out there.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
Salty overall hasn't been that good
but he’s been surviving with the bat and seems to be close to being able to put it all together.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
When you say not very good
are you talking offensively or defensively or both?
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
I haven't been as wowed w/ his supposed defensive improvement as most have around here
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on May 28, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought he was fairly wretched last year
he looks passable now.
I still don’t think he is front line defensively, but, then, I was never as wowed with Laird defensively as some were. I always thought he gave away some balls with bad pitch framing.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
Passable is about how I'd call it, which is fine
I didn’t see the tuesday game. What happened with him there (5 sb and a passed ball)?
Was a lot of that on Millwood, or did he just have a really off day?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on May 28, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Milly
Salty was leading the league in CS%, IIRC.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
I came here to split hairs. And you?
by inactive lsb user on May 28, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Millwood
is one of the 2 or 3 easiest pitchers to steal on in the majors. He is just dogcrap at holding runners.
"I'd praised catcher Max Ramirez two weeks ago, but after his continued struggles I'm increasingly convinced he's not going to pan out." - crops.mlblogs.com
Offensively of course
I don’t think there should be much question with his defense. He’s looked a whole lot better back there and given his age and rapid improvement over one offseason, I don’t think he’s peaked defensively either.
The offense though has been the question mark so far this season, but he’s starting to show some more power and has been working the counts more, so I think he could really heat up soon.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I'm getting tired of the,
“When Hamilton gets it going” line of reasoning. It is stated as fact around here that it will indeed happen. A foregone conclusion. My question is why? Based on a season and a half of baseball? It IS possible that he isn’t as good as he showed last year, isn’t it?
Josh’s track record seems a little light to be guaranteeing that he will just “get it going” any day now. I think the odds are in that favor but l would be cautiously optimistic regarding Josh, not concretely optimistic….
Adam Lambert is indeed a rock god,so suck it.
by red shoe ranger on May 28, 2009 4:35 PM CDT reply actions
.911 OPS in the month of May
He’s got it going already. The question is when will that BABIP get back up and will he get his Ks down a bit to be an even better player.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
fairly small sample size
due to injuries. But I guess you could also point out that he has a .911 OPS “playing through injuries” which might be perceived as impressive.
Adam Lambert is indeed a rock god,so suck it.
by red shoe ranger on May 28, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
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