Defending Bob Geren
by Adam J. Morris on May 30, 2009 2:48 PM CDT
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PrintBob Geren is getting killed over at Athletic's Nation for the decision to walk Chris Davis and face Taylor Teagarden last night:
Chris Davis had struck out all four ABs in Game 1, and finished the double-header 0-7 with 6 Ks. He has now struck out a major league leading 77 times, including 23 times in his last 34 ABs. He is batting .194 and will likely be optioned to AAA. In sum, he is essentially, this season and especially right now, the equivalent of a pitcher batting. I was truly in disbelief when I saw this move being made.
I'm going to ignore the "will likely be optioned to AAA," which is wrong but not relevant to this discussion.
Against righties this year, Teagarden is hitting .235/.333/.294.
Against righties this year, Davis is hitting .216/.272/.474.
Yeah, Davis has been awful lately, which you have to take into account...but even given that, you've got an open base. Teagarden's average against righthanders is barely higher than Davis's (and was, I believe, lower than Davis's coming into yesterday's game), and Davis is a hell of a lot more likely to go deep than Teagarden.
So down 2-1, with the backup catcher (who hasn't hit righties well all season) coming up behind Davis, who has been striking out a ton but who is about as likely to get a hit as Teagarden against a RHP and who is a whole lot more likely to go deep and make it a 5-1 game...
Is it really that irrational to walk Davis to face Teagarden?
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I truly think and not just me but almost everyone here would have thrown Davis nothing but fastballs and take my chance with him. You could always justify it by saying look he leads the league in K’s. As of right now I think you pitch to Davis 100 times out of 100. JMO
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Seattle tried throwing him nothing be fastballs ...
… and he took them deep for a game winning homer.
by northtexan95 on May 30, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes. Walking Davis when he's struckout in every at bat is irrational.
If this was Wash I do not think you would be defending him.
Jeff Zimmerman for President.
It's absolutely irrational...
Don’t care what the stats say… Given the way Davis looked at the plate last night, walking him made no sense… You take your chances… If he beats you, nobody is gonna blame you for pitching to him. Nobody.
And even if you just really don’t want to pitch to him, why intentionally walk him? Why not keep the catcher behind the plate, “pitch around” him, and throw 4 pitches out of the strike zone? It’s probably more likely swing at bad pitches and strike out than take all 4…
+This
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
how sweet it is
to have dumber managers in our division than ours. which is really the point. Scoscia (sp?) im scared of, Geren is the guy who was Calvin Sherraldi’s catcher, not friggin scared. DonWak has no ammo.
Im happy, screw geren and screw the A’s(s)
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
Without a doubt its irrational?
The guy K’d FOUR times just an hour earlier! I don’t even think Wash would pull such an incomprehensibly stupid move like that.
yes, it is.
"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller
TT had already gotten a solid hit though of a righty earlier in the day
the only reason they were in that position is b/c they had sold TT short once already to get down, so what do you do? sell him short again and make the same mistake. They had just struck out Davis 6 AB’s in a row…
Genius!
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
No, he hadn't
That was Teagarden’s first AB of the day.
by Adam J. Morris on May 30, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
guess i got my TT screwing the A's with a clutch hit moments screwed up
btw TT was hitting like .211 BA before that AB and was hitting .262 at his last AB. kinda nuts to realize how few games he gets into. Regardless any1 who has seen CD’s last 20 AB given to them by their advanced scout would never consider IBBing CD
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
I just don't see how anyone can defend Geren
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Don't know about the splits
But in Taylors last 9 games, albeit its over a months time, hes batting .357/.438/.429
And wasn’t there 2 outs? So its not like you were trying to set up a double play or anything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Which part of that statement is wrong?
I’m going to ignore the “will likely be optioned to AAA,” which is wrong but not relevant to this discussion.
You mean you think he’ll be sent down to Frisco instead or you don’t think he’ll be sent down at all?
I don't think he's likely to be sent down
by Adam J. Morris on May 30, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh.
Unless he turns it around today or tomorrow, I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent him down on Monday.
it may not be that quick,
but I don’t see him making it past the ASB if he keeps sucking.
"Guillermo Moscoso despite his stunning game yesterday, is not a legit prospect. He is simply too old, too skinny, too weak, and lacks the fastball to make it at the professional level. ." - crops.mlblogs.com
I think it could easily be this quick.
JD’s recent quotes about Davis have indicated that patience is wearing thin, and the guy looked poor against Edgar Gonzalez who’s no more than a AAAA pitcher at best. They have an incredibly tough 8 game road trip against NY/BOS coming up and this offense can’t afford to have an auto-out at the 7 spot.
6 game road trip
My bad. I don’t know where I got 8 from.
NYY/BOS always seem to take an extra day a piece.
In 1991, I was 8 and thought Kirby Puckett would come beat up the monster in the closet if I prayed hard enough.
by GhettoBear04 on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM CDT
I don't see them sending CD down
His D is just too good and they no one to replace that, and i think at some point he will get it together, maybe he needs an eye check, what ever the reason his track record has to count for something along with his defense.
Larry Parrish Was Da Man!
Well
With his atrocious ABs, he’s likely to either be benched more or sent down. I don’t really see how benching is the better option.
by brettgardner on May 30, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
well it is likely
and yeah very questionable move by the A’s. You have to pitch to Davis over Teagarden based on how terrible Davis has looked that day, and as a whole in the last several games.
Yes
Even if you think walking him is the right move, then at the very least you pitch around him. Basically, don’t pitch in the zone and see if he will chase something, which at this point seems likely. So an unintentional, intentional walk is ok or pitching to him is ok, but pure inentional walk is ignoring way too much recent history.
I agree for two reasons
1> Davis is in a huge slump, and probably needs to go to AAA. But I’d still rather face Teagarden than Davis. I’d rather face Julio Lugo instead of David Ortiz or Kendry Morales instead of Vlad for the same reason.
2> While Tea may have more chance of getting a single there, in the outside shot Davis gets a hit, it’s possible he’ll get a big hit, leading to even a bigger inning. Bottom of the 9th, tie score, I probably pitch to Davis. Early in the game, walking him makes sense.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
So you pitch to him when one swing can win the game but not in the first inning?
That seems backward to me
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The point is that in a situation where a single and a home run are equal outcomes
then I don’t mind facing Davis.
Davis is not a big threat to hit a single. But he is a threat to hit a home run or a double. Right now, Davis’s only value at the plate is that he may pop a homer at any second. He’s not a threat to lace one in front of the left fielder at any given AB. So in a situation, like the bottom of the 9th of a tie game with a guy on 2nd, I’d much rather have a singles hitter up there than Chris Davis. But earlier in the game, when a home run has a much bigger effect on win probability than a single, I would rather face Tea.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
it's kind of a forced example
but I stick by it
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
Did you just try to compare CD to Ortiz and Vlad?
If so, UTTER fail.
by behindthebag on May 30, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a huge Davis supporter
but I wouldn’t be shocked if his numbers for the rest of this season ended up better than at least one of those two. I think they are perfectly appropriate examples about other guys who are (used to be) dangerous yet have started off badly. Maybe they come back, maybe they don’t. But the thing is, they could. So could Davis. Teagarden… not so much.
I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.
It is inexcusable to intentionally walk Davis to get to anyone right now
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Adam what is it gonna take
A sandpaper handjob?
The kid doesnt have it. Its over.
You can’t close the leads you’re given, you can’t close shit, you ARE shit, hit the bricks pal and beat it ’cause you are going out!!!
Little over the top?
You can’t close the leads you’re given, you can’t close shit, you ARE shit, hit the bricks pal and beat it ’cause you are going out!!!
Davis was rushed to Arlington last year to fill a desperate need at 1B, and was not really a finished product. To say that it is over for him, or that he isn’t shit, is going a bit far. Given 10-15 days in AA/AAA, where he can get AB’s in every inning, while getting instruction fron Jaramillo, is most likely what he needs.
In 1991, I was 8 and thought Kirby Puckett would come beat up the monster in the closet if I prayed hard enough.
by GhettoBear04 on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM CDT
It's a quote from Glengarry Glen Ross.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
oh...never saw it
In 1991, I was 8 and thought Kirby Puckett would come beat up the monster in the closet if I prayed hard enough.
by GhettoBear04 on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM CDT
Adam,
I know that you are not convinced that CD needs to be sent down, to work out his swing/mechanics. But if he were, isn’t there a provision where he would be allowed to have an AB in every inning?
I thought that I had heard that somewhere, or is it only on a medical rehab??
In 1991, I was 8 and thought Kirby Puckett would come beat up the monster in the closet if I prayed hard enough.
by GhettoBear04 on May 17, 2009 5:26 PM CDT
Yeah medical rehab only I believe
And it may be confined to the lowest levels not AAA or AA
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
As out of kilter as Davis has been
I certainly would have pitched to him and taken my chances. Even though I think he’s just about due.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
It's one of those thought traps
If somebody is hot, then you don’t want to pitch to him because he is hot, but if somebody is cold, you don’t want to pitch to him because he is due.
Reminds me of my state of mind regarding the Rangers this last couple of years. I was concerned when they played hot teams because they are hot, and I was concerned when they played teams on losing streaks because those teams are bound to win a game.
I agree with AJM here...
although I can understand the other side as bad as CD has been lately.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
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