Diamond to the d.l.
by Adam J. Morris on May 4, 2009 1:12 PM CDT
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PrintThomas Diamond has been put on the disabled list by the Oklahoma Redhawks, with a strained shoulder.
A.J. Murray has been promoted to Oklahoma, in would could potentially be a relatively short stay, if he keeps pitching well and Eddie Guardado continues to struggle.
No word at this time as to how serious the shoulder injury to Diamond is, but given that this is someone who was thought to be on the short-list of reliever candidates for the Rangers, it is something worth keeping an eye on.
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sigh
Yet another thing going against Diamond.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Diamond is a good
example of why a minor league system needs to develop multiple pitching prospects. Of the top 20 pitching prospects in the Ranger’s system, how many will actually become effective ML pitchers?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
You clearly haven't read a spurdynasty fanpost
by oc on May 4, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Depends on your definition of effective ML pitcher, doesn't it?
To get a sense of what even a pitching poor system can produce, take the Rangers minor league system in 2004 and you will find:
John Danks
Edinson Volquez
Chris Young
Eric Hurley
Scott Feldman
Frank Francisco
Josh Rupe
Nick Masset
Wes Littleton
Injuries happen as do development hiccups and hangups, rushed promotions, and personal problems, but the whole notion that remarkably few prospects actually become productive big leaguers is as overblown as the idea that some big leaguers are significantly more clutch than others.
3 out of 20 is definitely pessimistic
but really, for me, it is about tempering expectations. I realize some will succeed. They may not be as good as I had hoped, but I realize even more that some will disappoint and some will get hurt, especially pitchers.
Honestly,
Hurley, Rupe, Feldman, Masset, Littleton are hardly success stories.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
Volquez and Danks are hardly success stories themselves. Just a couple of guys that have a good year of baseball under their belt.
by oc on May 4, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Just curious
How do you define “effective ML pitcher”?
Which means you need a few more years of data
So if you go back an extra 5 years to 1999, the Rangers minor league system included:
Aaron Harang
Doug Davis
Francisco Cordero
Joaquin Benoit
Danny Kolb
Danny Patterson
Mike Venafro
The depressing thing is that there's only two starters.
by oc on May 4, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
the optomistic thing is
we have a much better system now
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
Yep
The 1999 minor league system had zero pitchers ranked among BA’s Top 100 and the 2004 system had only Danks ranked at #80. Rangers ’09 has three pitchers among the Top 100 including 1 in the Top 10 and a second in the Top 40. Plus Main and Boscan were reportedly near the Top 100.
The prospect gurus are right to remind fans that not all great prospects become great players. Unfortunately, many fans (and mediots) take that to mean that prospects typically fail. And that is just not the case. BA is not perfect, but in the past ten years or so, their hit rate for their Top100 is ~70% when it comes to identifying minor leaguers who will become average or better major leaguers. And as is revealed by the two Rangers lists above, a lot of guys who are not Top100 prospects will develop into “effective” major leaguers for at least a short period of time.
OK, effective wasn't the right word
how about “how many will reach their projected potentials?” I think everyone will agree that the way to develop pitching is to not count on one pitcher (Lewis) or three pitchers (DVD) to be the savior(s) of your future rotation.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I don’t think that any of the pitching prospects will be as great as we hope. But I also believe that the majority of the most talented arms in the Rangers system (Feliz, Perez, Main, Beavan, Kiker, Poveda, Boscan, NeRa, Font, Strop, Hunter, Murphy, Brigham, Ross, Wieland) will have a least a 3-4 year run where they are at least league average. And I also think that at least 3-4 will become very good major league pitchers.
agreed
i will be shocked if less than 12 of the arms we have in our entire minor league system do not have at least solid major league careers in some capacity. As said above, it is all about expectations. If guys like Kiker and Beavan end up making it as relievers (and not necessarily late inning guys) then does that count as a disappointment? Probably to some degree. But with the incredible depth that is currently in our system, I would wager that we would be able fo form an entire big league pitching staff in 5-7 years with pitchers currently in our system.
These guys aren’t storming the beaches at Normandy here. Sure, there is attrition, but if only 3-4 of our top pitching prospects have solid ML careers in some capacity, something will have gone horribly wrong.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think only 3-4 are likely to reach projected ceilings
We just have to hope and pray that of the group that does, some are the guys with TORG potential.
But yeah, that is an entirely different thing than saying only 3-4 will be effective big league pitchers.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
Because I suspect he'll see tricer's 3-4 and raise him to 30-40.
by Jamey Newberg on May 4, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait.
Spellman is the dyslexic kid, right? Sorry — I meant Sully, the juco star.
by Jamey Newberg on May 4, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of Sully
you need to plagiarize back by ending all your posts with
-The Newberg …..IN DA HOUSE !!
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
"You know a pitching prospect isn't any good if John Daniels doesn't trade him away but keeps him insteaad." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
"You probably can throw Neftali Feliz on that group of overblown Rangers pitching prospect failures." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
One can only hope that Jamey will adopt this
It would be so awesome.
Rangers Pitching: Storming the Beaches of Normandy since 1994
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
i have you fool
i gurantee you at least 3 or 4 of the rangers current top 20 pitching prospects will be effective at one time or another in their major league careers. in spurdynasty’s post above there are at least 5 pitchers in the shitty rangers minor league system that have been effective in the major leagues
by dustinvandeman on May 4, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
When does
veteran leadership lose out to can’t get anyone out. He threw nothing but cock high 84 mph fastballs the other night against Chicago. You can have all the grit, savvy, and leadership in the world, that isn’t getting anyone in the bigs out.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 4, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, I can't beat up on the guy. He knows his time is over.
by oc on May 4, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Cock-high?
I’m going back and forth on whether I’d want to see someone actually swing his cock at a Guardado fastball.
I'm sure the Japanese have filmed some variation of this idea
by oc on May 4, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh…
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on May 4, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Close
Not the Japanese, but Eadweard Muybridge did that film series of naked people playing sports (including baseball) in the late 19th century.
Plus he killed a guy who was screwing his wife, and was found not guilty, which is pretty cool. Not as cool as naked baseball, though.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
I watched Muybridge in History of Film earlier this semester
nice reference.
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays 10 PM - 1 AM on FM 88.7 The Choice
"Computers can’t measure the size of a man’s heart."
- Hawk Harrelson, MLB Guru/Analyst
Well
that sounds like quite the internal struggle you are going through. Whatever you decide, keep it to yourself…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 4, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I have :D
Five Dollar Footlongs are a good bit more food for just $1 more, though… and right now you can get a 21-ounce drink for another buck, so a big sandwich and a drink for $6.07 after tax here.
I would like to point out..
that not everyone has the same definition of that. :-)
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
May 15
D-Day for Eddie. Murray will get called up tp replace him. Just my prediction.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I dislike Eddie's performance as much as anyone
but he’s a pretty good dude.
Awesome Eddie Story
No jealousy? Veterans looking out for younger players rather than separating themselves from them? These are things that plagued the team from time to time the past couple years. Younger players sometimes were flat out uncomfortable in the clubhouse. I remember when Eddie Guardado first came to the team and was shocked that there was a rookie bus and a veteran bus. “We are all one team! What’s with that?” he asked me. It took a few years until the policy changed to all players on one bus, but until it did, Eddie rode on the rookie bus.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
buses
Really? A douche bus and a rookie bus. Do the Yankees do that?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
The Mariners
of 04-05
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
starter to reliever to starter
to reliever.
"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller
to starter again?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 4, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
So...
You’re going along this timetable, right?
High School to College to Junior year in college to this year in the pros.
yea, dan kills ranger talk so quickly
its amazing
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
Seriously?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
dear lord
Dan, you are a moron, shut the hell up when it comes to the Rangers, you know nothing about baseball.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
"they're gonna be 12-14 in two days"
‘good pitching beats good hitting’ … ‘Rangers suck’’
Thanks Dan for that hard hitting insight.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
I agree with him about this method of breaking Holland in by bringing him into high-pressure situations
But like the other night… to face Thome, your choices were Holland, Guardado and C.J.
Not sure he had much of a choice.
by oc on May 4, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean the guy (Feldman) who loaded the bases???
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Why not,
Harrison got out of his own bases loaded jam last night. It happens and they need to be able to pitch out of it. I think Feldman was a bit gassed at that point, but on principle I’m not against leaving him in there.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Feldman didn't look gassed at that point
he pitched around Quentin, and gave up 2 dink and dunk singles. Nothing was hit hard in the inning until Holland came in.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
Not to mention Thome was 0-2 against Feldman that night.
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays 10 PM - 1 AM on FM 88.7 The Choice
"Computers can’t measure the size of a man’s heart."
- Hawk Harrelson, MLB Guru/Analyst
Yeah
When you have yet to allow a run and have been dominant that night AND have loaded the bases on some weak hits AND you are under 80 pitches, you should be allowed to work out of a jam. Its the same thing you would let just about every other pitcher on the team do.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
gotta feel for the guy
Hope it’s not end-of-the-line serious.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
no shit.
he was my pick to click at the major league level this year…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 4, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
i was hoping he would finally make an impact at the major league level. depending on how serious it is, that is definitely in jeopardy. damn
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
i just dont think
there is much hope for him to be effective, not just all the injuries, but he’s not been effective to go with that.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
I'm rather optimistic
but I just remember the buzz around him come draft time, then the year after…how he’s such a bulldog on the mound a la Clemens, etc. It’d be nice to have somebody like that up on the big league level.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 4, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I just hope we dont have to see Eddie give up 8 more runs
b4 then… I hope the next time we use him is in a 10 run game
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
confused
why is his nickname pirate? ive seen it a few times on here and the reason eludes me
AJ Murray=Arlington John Murray
Arrrrrrlington…get it now?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
it's one of those situations
where the story behind the nickname is much dumber than the nickname itself. Frankly, we used to call him AJM until somebody through a hissy fit.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
The story behind the nickname
is so lame that its awesome.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Baseball nicknames
My general impression is that the stories behind a lot of them are really stupid or silly.
I knew a guy in college who was a reliever for the UT-Arlington baseball team, and he told me a bunch of the team-generated nicknames for his teammates. Some of them weren’t much more clever than the “add a -y to the end of it” type that’s common in hockey. One was a guy’s last name spelled backwards.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
Kind of like that UTNAC
schtik the dude on BBTN does for Jorge Cantu?
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
I'd hate that guy forever.
"Hustle doesn't cost a dime and it looks good." - Pete Rose as Channeled by Marcus Lemon
dear tball,
Flashworthy? Seems so since this unfortunately takes Diamond out of the mix for big league relief work any time soon. – Newberg
This is an example of what I was referencing in another thread.
His injury removed him from the mix? I would have thought his performance had done that. But you see, there are people who insist on including this guy “in the mix”. It is baffling…
I had a secret meeting in the basement of my brain.
Well, there are several guys "in the mix"
who aren’t very exciting to think about, so that isn’t saying much to me. I’m not particularly excited about Murray, either, but I think either he or Diamond might be an upgrade over Mendoza.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
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