Wednesday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on May 6, 2009 7:41 AM CDT
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PrintNice two game series in Seattle. The Rangers are now a half-game out of first place, and have the best run differential in the division.
Great work from Vicente Padilla last night, who allowed only one unearned run in the game. Jeff Wilson says Padilla deserved better than a no-decision, and Padilla credits his success to commanding all his pitches yesterday.
Scott Feldman pitches today, and with Kris Benson coming off the d.l. today as well, I guess there could be some question about Feldman's role going forward, but T.R. Sullivan says Benson is expected to go to the bullpen, with Feldman staying in the rotation. Jeff Wilson says a decision on Benson hasn't been made yet, though.
Josh Hamilton played catch yesterday, and felt very good
On the potential bullpen front, Pedro Strop has been talked about as someone who is a candidate in the near future, but he is taking a step backwards, instead, being sent from AAA Oklahoma to AA Frisco.
Both T.R. Sullivan and Jeff Wilson have stories up on Michael Young's early season power surge.
Richard Durrett talks about some key decisions Ron Washington has made in the last few games, and suggests that the Washington Job Watch is no longer on high alert.
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Strop
really should have started in Frisco to begin with. This team’s willingness to be overaggressive with inexperienced guys like Madrigal and Strop is baffling considering how conservative they usually are.
also, here’s an interesting trend to watch: Carlos Pimentel walked 31 batters in 65 innings last year in Spokane, almost one every other inning. So far in 26 innings in Hickory he has walked just 4. He’s hittable, and he doesn’t sport an insane G:F ratio, but if he can show that sort of command, he’s got a chance (being the age of a freshman in college also helps).
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Yep
He gets kinda lost with the likes of Perez and Boscan and soon to be Neil Ramirez but hes a solid guy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
It's just sick that we have too many prospects and not enough room
Can’t remember if it was Parks or somebody else that said not long ago: many teams bring raw guys up from the DSL to fill roster spots in the lower levels of their system, we may have to actually send legit prospects TO the DSL because we don’t have enough room stateside.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Haven't we already done this with one of our guys?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think so, do you remember who it is?
I’ve heard, but now I’m drawing a blank. I want to say it’s one of the 07 or 08 draftees.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Im terrible with names
Especially the non-marquee ones.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
good joke
bad spelling
Cris Collinsworth
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 6, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice numbers from Pimentel
That’s the kind of growth you want to see in a prospect jumping from one level to the next
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Strop
His aggressive assignment to OKC reads as the org’s enthusiasm for him. I remember reading Levine was all over him in case he’d become available…I’m guessing they go back to being in the Colorado org together, and Thad had a lot of firsthand eyewitness of the player.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on May 6, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
OT: Whitlock destroys Roberts
"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller
That is a GREAT read....
When someone who shares your beliefs and values, as Whitlock freely admits he does with Roberts, an ass-ripping like that carries even more of a punch IMO. Plus, I’ve only recently come to realize he turns a phrase real well. He’s officiallly in my “must read” list.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
did you see
Dougie Glanville’s take in the NY Times?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
"The Times and SI can kiss my ass"
Greatness. I love Whitlock. I don’t always agree with the guy, but he has absolutely no problem calling a spade a spade and being 100% honest with his opinions.
To paraphrase the noted philosopher Michael Ray Gundy, Selena Roberts is garbage and the publications that print her are garbage.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
x
The phrase predates the use of the word “spade” as an ethnic slur, which was not recorded in usage until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the modern racial slur against African-Americans.
Forgive me if I offended you, Brett
I thought it was pretty clear that I was using the phrase to signify “telling it like it is”, not in any racist manner.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Well then, fair enough
I always support a fine ball-busting effort.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Which is why the Whitlock article is so good...
of course Selena doesn’t have balls, but that’s neither here nor there.
Selena doesn't have balls because
Whitlock just destroyed them. I saw the interview yesterday also. If I remember correctly, Whitlock was on the show also. Rome(who I can barely stomach) gave her a pass. I was surprised he and Jason didn’t take her to task there.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
Now lets get on to picnic.
Horrid word.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
doesn't this
make the “Black Spades” gang a little superfluous?
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Best run differential in the division.
I loved reading that sentence.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Indeed
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Is Strop the potential 2004 version of Frank Frank?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
imo
yes. it may take him a couple years to realize his potential and become a potential major leaguer. but he has as good or better raw stuff than practically everyone in the farm system save feliz
by dustinvandeman on May 6, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
if you are asking about this year
the only realistic candidate would be if we worked Feliz in as a bullpen guy later this year, but even he would need to work on his control. Strop simply needs a full year in the upper minors to learn how to pitch and not rely on his stuff. Just like Madrigal really needed a whole year last year.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
are you sure?
because the way people have been hyping up Strop since ST, it seemed like he could be this year’s Frankie.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I wasn't being facetious - my knowledge of the minor leaguers is
limited and I was honestly looking for information.
Posada went on the DL this week with a hammy that’s been bothering him for most of the season. He’s not going to last at catcher this year….just kicking around the subject but I wonder what we could get from them for either Salty or Teagarden in the form of a reliever?
Dare we ask what Joba would cost because he’d look really good in the 8th inning on this thing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I don't think the Yanks give up Joba at any price
Theoretically, they could be sellers at the deadline, but realistically Hank won’t allow that . Not sure they’d give us anything useful (to us, right now) for a catcher.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
I don't want to trade Salty
Teagarden has shown nothing this year while Salty has flourished. Hes the youngest of our three catchers currently on the 40 and his bat looks legit this year. His defense is improved also.
Offer them Teagarden and see what we can get from them
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I hope you're right
But I have my doubts about Pinas bat long term. Its been great the first month of the season but I have my doubts.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Teagarden's value is way down right now so you do not trade him under any circumstances, bs
Would you do Salty for Joba?
Look at Joba honestly from the Yanks point of view…great young arm but he’s had injury issues and given his off-season and background (mom got popped for dealing meth last week), he may be walking time bomb that can’t stay healthy plus you now have Hughes in the mix.
It’s worth asking. You’d be surprised what people will do if you just ask.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Salty is borderline untouchable right now
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
he had a 710 OPS and a sub 300 OBP going into yesterday's game
I don’t see why that should be borderline untouchable.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
exactly
people around here who wouldn’t trade Joba, who struck out 8 Red Sox in a row yesterday, for Salty have simply lost their minds.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
hey im all over salty
but in reality is his ceiling THAT much higher than teagarden or ramirez? not really THAT Much higher
if you get offered a hughes/joba/buchholtz-caliber pitcher you take it and run
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
im of the opinion that perhaps neither is the long term ranger catcher of the future.
if i could trade them in seperate deals to get more pitching, i would
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
His ceiling is that much higher than Teagarden's and Ramirez's
Salty is going to be the complete package. Teagarden and Ramirez both have their issues on one side of the plate.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
thank you!
No let’s keep on leading the league in runs scored with shitty pitching, that’s done well over the last 30 + years.
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
Are you bringing in Joba to be a starter or late inning guy?
If its to be a starter I would think about it but I am not trading Salty for an 8th inning man which is what Josey suggested originally
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
you let him be a starter until he proves he cant handle starting
health-wise
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Joba can do both
but this team, this year needs a hammer that Wash can trust in the 8th inning.
Joba can still be a starter from 2010-2012.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
but what if O'Day comes around?
I’d rather keep Joba starting, this staff could implode at any time and then it won’t matter if you have a solid back end or not.
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
why do you put him in the pen
is he going to have more of an impact in the 8th inning or as a starter? def go with as a starter on this team imho
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
You can trade a lot less for a good 8th inning guy
If you’re trading for Joba and planning on him as an 8th inning set-up guy, you shouldn’t be giving up Salty.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I would agree with this.
Unless you make him a 8th inning guy this year and KNOW that you are putting him in the SR next year. I might think about that, not agree on it yet, but think about it.
That would be a deal i wouldnt do until the deadline. If we are seriously in the pennant race, then yeah, i might do it. But overall i agree. If im trading Salty, and i am for the right return, then it has to be for TORP
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
I mentioned this in the post below too
Its just not a good move for his development as a starter. At the age of 25, he’s still not going to be able to give you a full season’s worth of starts unless you want to risk some injuries.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I'm also planning on plugging Joba
into my starting rotation after 2009 to help fill the void left when either or both Millwood & Padilla leave.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
You'd still be developing him as a starter at that point
If you stick him in the bullpen this year, he finishes the season with something around 90 IP. Are you going to trust him then to make 32+ starts in 2010? What the Yankees should do with Joba is what they are doing right now, leaving him in the rotation unless you want to limit his career to the 8th inning.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I agree to a certain point
Although if you can get Joba for Salty you do it. I can’t believe I’m going to say this but I agree with Josey on this. Stick him in the pen this year and give him a rotation spot next year. He could also give you a spot start here and there this year if they need one without having to bring another warm body up.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
I'm starting to think I'd rather just see Feliz come up
and be stuck in the bullpen. If we’re that desperate for bullpen help, lets just slow down Feliz’s development as a starter and keep Salty.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
So you wouldn't do
A Salty for Joba? Think about it. What would the rotation look like next year and 11?
Joba
Holland
Feliz
Bmac
Harrison
I think you could replace Salty on D with either TT or Pina next year.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Are you planning on Joba in the bullpen this year?
If you are, then I have no interest in Joba.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Joba would make this team better
In any role he has this year. The Rangers are working towards next year but if they can hang around this year they have a chance and Joba will make this team better. Period. IMO
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
I have no desire to trade for a pitcher
just to ruin his development.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Fair enough
The stick Joba in the rotation and move Feldman back to the pen. Joba is better than Feldman in either situation.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Feldman to the pen
I’d rather trade him for whatever you can get. Feldman in the bullpen is hurting this team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Yep
If I had to choose between Feldman in the pen or traded away I would trade him.
This sucks I have to leave for another couple weeks. This was a good discussion we had going.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Have a safe trip
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Fine then trade him
Joba makes this team better.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
And I still don't know if I do Salty for Joba
Joba looks like he’ll be a great innings eater, but I don’t like his chances at becoming a great top of the rotation starter.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
We really don't know to much about
Salty either. Sure his d has got a lot better this year and he looks like he is hitting but what do we really know?
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
well
I think this is an empty discussion because I don’t see the Yankees trading a stud pitcher for an unproven catcher.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on May 6, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
the thing i like about salty is
he works counts and makes pitches locate. he seems to be patient up there so if he can hit and he seems to be doing good enough at it and his power seems to be coming around, i can see him turning into something i want on this team.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
Then I think about it like I said
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Joba is not an ordinary 8th inning pitcher, BSteve
He’s a freaking bad ass game-changer and down the road you’d have an experienced pitcher to replace either Millwood, Padilla or both instead of raw rookie.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
And when McCarthy inevitably has his vulva burst
you’d also have somebody flexible enough to become an acceptable starter.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
nonono
cant switch him btwn 8th inning and starting — see what happened last year
just a bad bad idea
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
right but the problem is that he is also
a game changer as a SP
would you put scherzer in the back of the ’pen?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Im not a fan of yoyoying guys from the pen to the rotation
Which is why I wouldn’t want to trade for Joba as a reliever no matter what my plans were going forward.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
its one thing to go between
but if you get him you make him either an 8th inning guy or a SP
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
But if we are trading for him as a reliever I don’t want to give up Salty for a reliever.
If we are getting him as a starter I think about it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
ok
good :)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Well sit there with your 3 catchers bsteve
while the bullpen blows up.
Teagarden is going to bring back very limited value right now.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Do you think TT could bring back someone like Masterson?
because i will gladly trade my backup catcher for a good young late inning guy
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't think...
the BoSox would give up Masterson for TT right now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Who would you have to add to make it happen?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No
You could do it with Tea but we may have to add someone like Poveda or Kiker which I wouldn’t be opposed to doing.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't know...
what they would want.
But I don’t think a minor league arm that hasn’t been above AA will do much for them. I think they would want someone who would be closer to helping them win now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Teagarden helps them win now
Masterson isn’t starting so they wouldn’t be losing a member of their rotation.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Masterson has looked pretty damn good..
I watched him pitch against the Yanks… Kiker? I dunno about that has he lost his pep?
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
I think hes regained it
Hes not on the 40 which would be a good selling point and he looks to be ready for ML action by the end of 2010.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Dunno what Teagarden would bring back
but I sure love the way Matt Harrison works with TT. His value to us is more than it would be for another team.
We can tell Cashman that Teagarden worked great with Harrison but he doesn’t give a shit. If we want somebody with true value like Joba, it’s going to cost us the young, thumping, switch-hitting healthy catcher named Salty.
If you’re worried about the offense you’re going to lose with Salty, Max is on the way and I’d venture he’ll eventually match or surpass what Salty can do.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Really?
Hes older than Salty and hasn’t shown yet he can hit pitching above AA. Who knows what Saltys ceiling is and if Max could ever dream of sniffing it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So you're worried about how Max will
hit in The Show?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
And Big Steve
do you favor the conservative approach with this thing or do you believe it needs to make bold moves?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I don't know about bold moves
We are set at most of our positional players for several years. We have alot of good young talented pitching here and on the cusp. Do we need to make a move to win this year? Yeah we probably do. Do we need to make a move to win next year? I don’t know. I think we are set up nicely to win next year and for many years to come. if a move now doesn’t affect our future then fine…do it. But I do not want to trade long term success for short term success.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
bigsteve,
I agree on not taking short-cuts. This franchise is still paying for trying to take short-cuts the last few years.
Joba gives you both long and short term success.
He addresses a blatant need right now.
You’re going to need to replace both Padilla & Millwood after 2010, maybe sooner. You can’t just plug in a kid and expect success. You need an experienced starter who can soak up innings. 2010 would be Joba’s fourth year in The Show.
Getting Joba is not a short-cut by any means.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
No its not which is why I have said I would consider it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Do you trade Salty for Joba at this point in time?
I’m not sure I say yes if I’m on the Rangers end of that deal.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
When you have these log-jams, these are the kind
of decisions that need to be made to help the big club.
We’re going to go thru the same thing when Smoak gets here.
Yes, I trade Salty for Joba.
I’d bring up Max and let Teagaren/Max share the catching.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Great
Two catchers who combined can barely get over a 900 OPS
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Yeah
Cause if there’s one thing Ramirez has shown, it’s been that he can’t hit.
At all.
by brettgardner on May 6, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Continued
Ball-busting… great stuff brett.
Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.
"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM
i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking
Well
That one was actually attempting a baseball point.
by brettgardner on May 6, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
And a baseball point it was
But you have to admit, that was leaning a bit more towards sarcasm given the Max Man Crush that is a bit rampant on LSB than it was truly educational merit. haha
Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.
"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM
i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking
Cause if there’s one thing Ramirez has shown, it’s been that he can’t hit...
above AA very well
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Well with the way this team is hitting
I don’t think it really matters what you get from your catchers if you can bring in Joba for Salty. Pitching trumps hitting, go look at the playoffs.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
You're absolutely right
In his ~150 PA bouncing back and forth from AAA to the majors he hasn’t maintained his gigantic OPS.
What a piece of shit.
by brettgardner on May 6, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
haha
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
by inactive lsb user on May 6, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
There were concerns about his bat playing in the Majors
A lot of the talk of him being able to hit .300/.400/.500 in the Majors was crazy talk anyways. Until Max can start toying with the notion of cracking an .800 OPS in AAA, I’m not comfortable trading our best catcher. The worst thing JD can do with the catcher’s depth is to trade the best one away and be stuck with the worst options.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Even if you are getting Joba?
They still have Max, TT and Pina. This is a trade I would do in a heart beat and never look back. It’s all about the pitching.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
And your windfall for the Tex Trade would be -
Chamberlain
Feliz
Harrison
Andrus
BJones
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Exactly
How treat would that look? Feliz is close and BJones is having a good year at OKC. Even without Joba this has been a great trade and would be huge if JD could flip Salty for Joba.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
I believe we need to stick with the best catcher
Which means unless you are blown away with an offer for Salty (like Hughes, Buchholz, or better), you keep him. Joba just doesn’t do it for me.
Yeah, its all about the pitching, but saving a run is worth the same as scoring a run. You only sacrifice offense if you are getting a bigger improvement in pitching. I don’t think that’s the case.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Which means you're going to have a log-jam at
catcher and Wash is going to keep using Frank for 4-5 out saves or in 7-2 games that should be blow-outs.
That’s a very safe thing to do but it’s not going to make the major league team better.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Then trade Max or TT for an 8th inning set-up guy.
TT will get you Bard from Boston.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Do you really hate Joba that much?
If you do and it’s a big if trade Salty for Joba you can always move pieces around like Feldman to the pen. It’s not like we have a rotation of Kofaxs’. We are the Rangers and we always need pitching. Pitching wins hands down. You don’t have to go to far to figure this out just look at the playoffs. Pitching and defense and the defense looks like it is getting much better.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Not that I hate Joba
I like Salty that much though. I like his offense, and his defense has taken huge steps forward this year. Like I said above, I just don’t believe Joba is the top of the rotation starter that it would take for me to trade one of the top, young catchers in baseball.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
That's cool
I can respect that.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
That's too respectful of a response
Sooners suck.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
But statistically isnt it "easier" to save a run than get one?
Thats why hitters only hitt .300 and not .600. Easier to get hitters out than to hit safely.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
how important is a slugging catcher?
OPS is a misleading stat, its a good gauge of a power hitters ability to wait for his pitch and get walks but its an absolute terrible gauge of what a non slugger does.
example: Pete rose was over 900 ops one time ever.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
I think Joba is untouchable
He’s part of the Yankees psyche. Maybe they include him in a deal for a big name (a la Soriano), but Joba isn’t getting traded for someone of Salty’s caliber, even if it probably is a rational trade baseball wise.
New York inflates values of certain guys, and Joba is a prime example of that. It also throws guys away before they’re ready, which I think may happen with Hughes. It’s more likely, to me, that Hughes gets traded for 75 cents on the dollar than Joba.
I agree
And I’m not sure that I wouldn’t rather have Hughes anyway.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
I like Hughes
But I sure as heck don’t offer Salty straight-up.
I’d probably trade MaxRam or TT and maybe Poveda (or someone similar) for Phil, though.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
That is idiocy
I love Salt but if you can get Hughes(which you can’t) you do it without blinking.
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
"We love Wash.....As a team, we want Wash as the head of that team." Hamilton
"The NFL made me undergo a psychiatric evaluation......Please. It was an accident. If I wanted to post a picture of my penis I wouldn't have been all hunched over."- Chris Cooley.
this
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Hughes
But he is the riskier guy. I think Joba has shown that he’ll be an effective pitcher at the big league level, the real question is his health. Hughes has both health issues and isn’t a sure thing to succeed, but his ceiling is higher.
I’d be wary of giving Salty for him. Just because there is a decent shot that we end up with nothing in return.
So the Yankee rotation right now is
CC
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes
Wang is sidelined.
So, they have a decision to make as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
whats wrong with that rotation
its not like its anderson-cahill-outman-etc
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
knockoutking, they have a log-jam of starting pitchers
and a broken down old catcher plus they’re chasing the Red Sox, BJays and trying to stay ahead of the very young Rays.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
oooo ok
thought you were saying it wasnt a good rotation, my bad
we agree on this — id think that they would (optimally) bump pettite/trade pettite but at the same time with injury quetsions about every one of their starting pitchers…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
wang has sucked very badly though.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
I wouldn't trade Salty at any price right now
If you polled anyone beyond the most hardcore fans like ourselves, how many would believe that Salty is the youngest of all our catchers.
Just shows the kind of talent the kid is. Glad to see he’s finally starting to achieve some of that potential that has been seen for so long. He doesn’t have to hit like Mike Piazza, as long as he is respectable with the bat and plays the kind of defense he seems to have developed over the winter, he’ll be one heck of an asset for this club.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Why trade Teagarden when his value is so low?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
He's the more likely to be traded at this point
But yeah, it doesn’t make any sense to trade him right now.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Max is the tradeable commodity.
Tea works as the backup/Harrison only catcher. Max’s stick go boom.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
Parman
A lot of these teams are going to want a player who is major league ready and while Max might be ready, he doesn’t have the experience.
Salty has 600 something plate appearances in The Show and a track record that he’s not going to drown.
If you want that hammer in the bully, it’s gonna cost.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
True
but if you’re looking to relieve the catching situation, Max is the player to trade. TT is too valuable as a backup right now. You know his D will not fail the team, and he is capable of going on a run with the bat. Salty = untouchable.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
I think you are crazy to think Salty is untouchable
We have a catcher that can be a GREAT defensive backstop. We have PLENTY of hitters on this team that can produce what salty can produce if not better. Why do you continue to live in a baseball world of offense? We have tried it this way for entire existance of this club and please tell me how that has worked out. I really like Salty, but if (and i dont think they would) but if Boston or the Yanks offer or would take Salty for Jaba, Hughes, or Buckholz, then there is no question, you do it. Pitching WINS A WORLD SERIES!!! Not offense.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
well said sir!
You have got to GIVE to GET… sorry but you can’t have enough pitching and somehow the hitting is always plentiful.
I know BigSteve thinks without Salty that this team will become a 2 run offensive team with Hammy, Kins, Byrd, Young, Smoak and Cruz in the lineup that’s just silly and Andrus is going to pull his weight too in a year or so.
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
Agree
I LOVE our pitching prospects but that is not something we can completely rely on. Not every one of those guys are going to turn out to be top of the rotation guys. I hope they do and will pull for all of them to, however, if you can go get a major league ready arm, that has at least proven he can be a middle to top of the rotation guy, and all you have to give up is someone at a position we are EXTREMELY deep at. DO IT!! There are very few guys (offensively) that are untouchable on this team. We are very deep in the field and at the plate. (in arlington and in the minors). Like i said, dont think it has a chance to happen, but if it does, JD would be a fool not to pull the trigger
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Salty isn't untouchable because of his offense.
IMO, his defense has moved into the solid realm. He has less holes than any other catcher on the team. His offense is close to Max’s and his defense is close to TT. TT’ s bat is suspect and Max’s glove is suspect. Smoak is not suspect anywhere @ 1B, moving Davis to DH and running Blalock out of town. Max becomes tradeable because TT has proven to be a good backup. He is “untouchable” because he is our best catcher.
BTW, pitching, defense and hitting win WS – not just one of them will work.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
The only question
Is whether the difference between Salty and Teagarden is less than the difference between our worst starter and the guy we bring in (taking into account age/contract issues on both sides).
If it is, then there shouldn’t really be a problem.
by brettgardner on May 6, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree thta all three win WS
But are you saying that taking Salty off this team hurts us that bad at the plate to not warrant getting middle to top of the rotation guy?? Logic just doesnt make sense.
TT defense is great. We all know that. He will probably always struggle at the plate. But id be ok with a 240-260 hitter decent power. ESPECIALLY if what i got is a solid/great arm.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
And break in Max with TT so that way
you don’t have a Black Hole at the end of the order if TT can’t have better than a .700 OPS.
One of those catchers needs to go (possibly two) and I don’t want to make a trade solely to make room. I wanna make room and get the best value as well to address a team weakness.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
What happens if Teagarden's value never rises
Unless he starts hitting soon, his value isn’t going to be getting much higher.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I'd rather keep Teagarden and see if he pans out
(Baseball Prospectus called him a mix of Mickey Tettleon with defensive skills) instead of trading him when his value is at it’s lowest for a garden variety piece of shit arm.
Shake a tree and 5 of those kinds of pitchers will fall out of it and you shouldn’t have to trade a player with Teagarden’s potential (a real value, see Matt Harrison) to get one.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
The problem is that Teagarden isn't likely to hit that well
He hit well in 2007, but struck out at an alarming rate for any minor leaguer. Unless his bat picks up by a lot, you are left with a good defensive catcher who can’t hit. Shake a tree and 5 of those kinds of catchers will fall out of it. Hell, we have Pina right now in Frisco who could do that job and he is 3 years younger.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
unless Teagarden starts hitting soon...
Dude, he has a .907 ML OPS. You act like he’s proven that he hasn’t hit. That’s not the case.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
yep and it's not fair to judge him on his 29 ab's this year...
being that he plays every third day, how the hell is he supposed to get his timing down?
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
My problem with your thought process
is that you think we can get a TORP for Salty alone. It’s Salty ++ which will really hurt because it’s gonna have to include studs from the farm. Not gonna do it, wouldn’t be prudent.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
That what i said.
I necessarily dont think we can get Jaba, Hughes, or Buckholz for Salty straight up. My argument, which you presented, was against Salty being untouchable. He isnt for that type of TORP.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
yes I know what wins ...
But if you are strong in one area (hitting) and weak in another (pitching) for years and years now…then maybe you should consider taking from one to supplement the obvious weakness and go with the better defender on the field.
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
We also cannot be afraid to lose some of our offense.
Tampa 2008 actually scored fewer runs than they did in 2007 (8 runs less) but their big improvement came in runs allowed.
The Rays were so good last year because they gave up 273 runs less than they had in 2007.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
yep it's called having a balance attack
and not so one-dimensional which clearly has NOT been working…Doh
Somehow the hitting invariably shows up, hitters want to hit in the Ballpark, pitchers run from it screaming, so when given the opportunity you HAVE TO capatilize
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
+1
And as this team is constructed, that will not happen here. We are already on pace to give up 900+ runs and that isnt going to get you anywhere. I know we EXPECT that to get better next year but by how much?? Especially if you dont add a proven TORP.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
so what if they sign sheets?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
If we sign sheets..
ill assume he is of TORP from again. I still think we are 1 guy away from having a rotation that can take you somewhere into October/November. If you sign sheets, would it be a kickass rotation with say Sheets, Milly, Joba/Hughes, Holland, with McCarthy as your 5th and possibly next year Feliz? Pretty sick rotation. And what, you gave up Salty to have that? Again, in a heartbeat.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
sorry that was my question
do you consider sheets a TORP
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah i still would
I guess at worst he is a nice 3. But yeah, ill give him the benefit of the doubt that he still is a TORP.
Is that a little too much HOPE? Not sure. But if, by his standards, has dropped from “An Ace” to “A 3 man”, thats probably still a damn nice 3 man.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
They're on pace for 903 right now
(5.577 runs/game) And that includes the early part of the season, too. If things go more like the last three weeks, then they won’t surpass 900 runs (5.556 runs per game).
For reference, the Yankees are giving up 6.384 runs per game, a pace for 1,034 runs in a season, and that’s with a starting rotation that someone earlier in this thread said was good.
I'm all about getting the best SP or RP for the team
I’m not advocating a no-trade policy. I’m advocating a conservative approach to building the team. Also, when I said untouchable, I meant among the catchers. I realize it came across differently, but it’s what I meant.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
Ok so point blank what would you do...
You’re JD:
Cashman calls up and says, the deal today is you give us Salty and you get Hughes. (Do you do it)
or
You give us Salty, and you get Jaba (do you do it)
Epstein callas and says, you give us Salty and you get Buckholz? Masterson? (Do you do it)
and then add in they require the likes of say Perez and Salty for the above mentioned guys. (Do you do any)
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Sorry had to leave the house for awhile
If I was GM(yes, please), I would do the deals because I’m a pragmatist. The team is teaming with catchers, but NO TEAM is trading a TORP for Salty straight up even if they are flush with starters(i.e. no deal for Buch this offseason when we were shopping his ass). It’s just pure fantasy.
No I don’t do the deals that undermine the future of this club like including Beaven, Main, Perez, Boscan, etc. I guess this is where my conservatism shines through. I would rather have all of them because I’m unsure which ones will be breakdown and which ones will breakthrough.
IMO, the organization sits on the precipice of excellence over the next decade. Therefore, any deal has to be good today, next year and next decade to be done. I’m not privy to the reality of signing Sheets, but it does appear to be pretty good. Hello TORP.
It’s hard to see many deals the Rangers could do that waiting won’t help more except for an 8th inning guy(which Salty is too much to pay). I’ve been preaching this awhile. The team needs to be patient with the farm and allow it to bubble up the players it needs. I know I sit in the minority on this, and I’m not trying to flame anyone. I would just like to try patience for once and allow the farm to better this team. They won’t have to wait long.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
Great points
Im with you on letting the kids get here and show us what they have. I do think that if we can get a YOUNG proven middle to top of the rotation guy for Salty straight up, you jump on it (and im saying middle as the likes of Joba and Hughes bc they havent exactly proven to be Ace material consistently, though the talent is def there). Im with you on being conservative and letting things play out. JD has done an AMAZING job rebuilding this team (system) and we are starting to see the fruits of what he has done. Yes, it could have been a year or two sooner based on who JD has shipped out, but the time is now and in the future and we all get to enjoy it.
Great discussion! Thanks
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Conservative approach?
Why?
Trading either Max or Salty is going to be a necessary and we probably need to be prepared to deal Smoak or Crush.
We are going to need to make a bold move a la Boston trading HRamirez for Beckett/Lowell.
You make progress with bold moves. Getting a piece of shit arm for Teagarden is not going to improve your team.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
But if for some reason you can get a middle/TORP guy for TT
You do it as well in a heartbeat.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Taylor is injury prone
but depending on the offer id move any or all 3 in separate deals. if i could flip them all into pitching, and then trade for a workable catcher while Pina gets here. If he can continue to hit. id do it.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
If Taylor gets injured, we have plenty o'
back-ups and I’d wager that Melhuse is sitting on a couch somewhere as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
if you passed up on trading for the joba's and houghe's for TT to be your everyday catcher
youd get all you deserve
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
He's saying that
Teagarden is too injury prone to pass up trading him for Joba or Hughes. So when he gets hurt again, you deserve to be stuck with some scrub back-up.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
whats the absolute best you realistically think TT will produce?
now, would you rather have that or a Buchh or Hughes.
its a no brainer
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
i think they should either trade teagarden or salty
one or the other — but trading teagarden now is foolish
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
he's been injury prone and isnt making contact and has had one good offensive year
honestly he’s the first id trade. Which has more long term value? the Piazza’s and VicMart’s of the world or the bob boone’s and mike defelice’s?
its a no brainer in terms of trade value if you can get it like the rumors that Sawks wanted TT in a Buckhholtz deal (sp?)
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
dont trade him now
because his value is very low — not cuz i want him to be the starter (im pulling for salty myself)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
yeah, i dig
in terms of value right this second, your on the mark, as far as longterm value, im not exactly sure how to increase TT’s value. Unless something radical happens, salty goes down, or the rangers get an offer they cant refuse for salty, TT is just our backup catcher and nothing more. I cant see a team going nuts over a dude who starts 2 times a week.
maybe im wrong, i think last winter was TT’s most value we will ever see. I hope i am wrong.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
i would agree 100%
i would ahve loved to see them trade him this offseason
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think if you could get the Yankees and Red Sox
into a bidding war, you could get something pretty nice. Probably very nice for Salty.
I’m with Bigsteve, you don’t want to trade Salty unless the return is very strong. Buchholz or Joba strong. Which isn’t going to happen. If Tea were to go on a super hot streak and Posada/Varitek were both big problem spots, you may get good deal (maybe the Yankees would give up on a less than stellar Hughes if Posada is struggling and Tea is doing well in July?)
The Yankees are old and they've been staggering around plus
they were just swept by the Red Sox.
A shake-up of some sort may be on the way.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Don't disagree, but what kind of shake-up do you think is on the way?
You don’t think Hank would order a fire sale do you?
I think they’ll at least wait till A-Rod gets back and starts hitting before they make any rash decisions.
But then again, Hank does seem to channel 70’s George, so anything is possible.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
No fire sale but they're going to
start addressing weaknesses.
Posada is doing fine as a hitter but his body is going to break down and he cannot be depended upon. He’s the player that needs to be shifted to DH and they need a young, new catcher.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
neither varitek nor jorge
can stop a base stealer though (which is half the reason all speed is trendy again) and both could snap like a twig at any second
both teams are (or absolutely have to be) prepared to address the issue should something drastic happen injury wise
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
I'm all for taking advantage of desperate Yankees
But that’s easier said than done. They’re who they are because they manage to get pieces they need for spare parts masquerading as uber-prospects (thanks to ESPN et al)
The time might be right to dangle Salty and see if the Red Sox
get involved.
The Red Sox could be looking to block the Yankees from acquiring a young switch-hitting catcher with pop both for this season and the long-term.
If the Yanks see the Red Sox getting younger at one of their perceived weaknesses, their urgency to make a deal might rise.
The best part of this that it’s no longer a guarantee that both of these teams are going to make the playoffs because of the Rays and possibly BJays, meaning they may have to make a deal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
You may be right about the interest
But it’s too early.
by brettgardner on May 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
i just think theres a zero chance the jays make the playoffs
pitching has to stay this good through the end of the year + get litich back in full form + bj ryan come back
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
is shawn marcum coming back this season
didnt he blow out something last season? TJ or Labrum or sumpn?
if he could come back, thats a decent addition
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
So
When we trade salty for any of those guys and he falls apart and salty goes on to become the AS that he is, I suppose you won’t bash JD….yeah right
I swear some of you are dense.you guys act like those pitchers are guaranteed to succeed and the truth is far from that
I don’t trade salty for those guys. Trade TT if you’re that damn desperate to make a trade.
you are pretty dense to GUARANTEE that Salty is going to be any better than TT.
Salty hasnt proven too much. Had sperts of greatness but also many sperts of bad baseball. Come on man, arguments work both ways bro.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
right but TT has shown less is older and has been injured a bunch
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
yeah, b/c right now clearly TT has shown to have the brighter future
and clearly every scout talks about how shitty Salty will be and how TT is gonna be a .300/400/500 guy….give me a fuckin break
the truth is that salty has proven to be more of a regular than any of the pitchers you listed except maybe Joba, whom i dont think will ever be a good starter.
I understand the argument here, but i just think it is basically a 100% guarantee that Salty is at worst a solid ML catcher for a lot of years with a chance to be very good. The pitchers on the other hand, its a crapshoot and that is the reason none of them have stuck in the ML level. They have huge issues right now.
Also, i hate pitchers with mental issues and that is largely a problem for all 3 guys
these are good points
both the Yanks and Sox have old broke down players at the same position and nobody on the doorstep to replace them. If Salty keeps hitting, it’s easy to envision a scenario where one of those teams blinks and gives up a pitcher that they shouldn’t.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
if a shake up is coming
i doubt its coming from cashman
just waaaaaaaaaay too early to do anyhing that drastic imho
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
there is zero reason to put him in the pen
to paraphrase klaw last night: he struck out 12 of the 24 hitters he faced vs one of the best offenses in the AL/baseball — still think he deserves to be in the pen?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
You talking Joba, knockoutking?
He was an absolute 8th inning bad ass in 2007. You wouldn’t see Wash making Frank get any more 4-5 out saves or feel compelled to bring him into a 7-2 game either.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
But you also have a high chance.
when Joba starts that you dont need FF with this offense. He can get you 7-8 low run allowed inning where you might not need FF at all. He is too good not too start. Especially with what we have now.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
for reference
as a starter: 17 starts, 2.58 k/bb, 103 k, 40 bb, 3.06 era, 94 ip, 9.9 k/9
as a reliever: 49 app, 3.9 k/bb, 78 k, 20 bb, 1.53 era, 59 ip, 11.9 k
if he can give you an era of about 3.5 with 10 k/9 and bb/9 of about 3.5 (career avg for bb/9) — thats a pitcher you cant afford to put in the pen
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
If you have the choice between great starter or great RP
You always go with the great starter. 7 great innings every 5 days or 3-4 great innings every 5 days.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I was assuming he read previous articles suggesting Stop could be this year's Frankie
The fact the he asks this the day Strop goes from AAA to AA, made me think that.
Madrigal this year
If we are going to have a young arm emerge as a legit setup option for us this year, I’m convinced it is going to have to be Madrigal.
Feliz may be able to pitch some high leverage bullpen innings in the second half, but we need someone available sooner, and someone that can pitch single inning stints several times a week. I don’t see anybody that could be expected to do that, other than Mad Dog.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
Agree
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
if it is going to be Mad Dog
then he better make some pretty big strides in the coming weeks. His 6:7 K:BB rate through 10 innings just isn’t going to fly at the major league level.
I honestly wonder what Beau Vaughan has to do to get the team to at least give him a shot. I find it hard to believe that his K/IP rate and his WHIP won’t carry over to some degree in the big leagues. I know we already have O’Day, but that really shouldn’t stop us from giving Vaughan a chance.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
One has to think Vaughn is near the top of the list to get a call if someone gets the boot
If Benson gets DFA’d, we’ll almost certainly add another pitcher to the 40. I can’t see that anyone other than the Pirate is ahead of Vaughn in the non-roster line of bullpen candidates.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
i think you're right
Murray and Vaughan in place of Guardardo and Benson would make me very happy. Can a major league team handle three side armers? It remains to be seen.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I'd give it a try
Let us also recall that Nippert is going to figure in here somewhere.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Nippert and Hurley
I had such high hopes for them after last season. What a waste.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I wouldnt right off Hurley yet.
Maybe for this year but he showed good enough stuff last year to make me think he can be a avg to above avg starter. And Ill take that. Just let him get healthy and see what he has.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
if your not going to write off hurley
you def shouldntw rite off hurley
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
nippert*
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
please read your post and notice all your wonderful spelling abilities.
please post something that is adding value bro. dont nit pick, doenst get us anywhere.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
i didnt elaborate because my feeling about hurley
are VERYVERYVERY well known on here from last year + this offseason
August 2008: Eric Hurley – Overrated Prospect?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a personal favorite of mine
when someone call’s out another poster for bad spelling, and makes a mistake while doing so.
know what I find ridiculous
when someone spells ridiculous “rediculous”
If you want some slack, bring your own rope.
by rangerfaninva on May 6, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
dude, its to be diculous again
what’s the prob?
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
I like Hurley as well and thought he had a chance to be a decent #4
but I’m so far out on Nippert.
I cannot stand pitchers with big arms that cannot throw strikes.
I hate it in Little League, Select ball, High School ball, college, AA, Spring Training and especially in The Show.
Out on Nippert and every other pitcher like him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
he was making progress
at the end of last season and looked sharp this spring as well. there is a decent track record of teams buying low on big arms who can’t throw strikes and being rewarded handsomely.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
clark
those pitchers break your heart.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Not even that risky
To get Nippert here cost us basically nothing. To give him some time to work out of the ML bullpen and see if he can get his control to be decent also isn’t costing that much to the team.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
It depends on how you feel about winning and losing.
You do realize they have scoreboards and standings in The Show, doncha?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
You can cover up his poor control
pretty easily out of the bullpen. Especially since his role would be as the long man. You would usually be using him in blowout games (wins or losses).
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I am curous to see what Mike Maddox
does with Nippert. He needs to throw more strikes, but I would like to see if there is anything that Mike can change before giving up on him.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 6, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
eh nippert is the kind of guy we should take a chance on imho
guys like nippert, juan morillo, edwin jackson are the kind of pitchers the rangers (for now/this year/last year) should take a shot on if only because if they put it together you have a VERY valuable player
look at edwin jackson this year (so far)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
in hindsight
we probably should have offered David Murphy for him.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
true
it would be surprising to me if the Rays preferred Joyce to Murphy, though. But yeah, this is exactly the sort of stuff i would love to know.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
yea
i just doubt they would pick matt joyce over murphy
not that either are very good players really
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
agreed that Mad Dog doesn't look to be stepping forward
I’m just saying that if it ain’t him, then it probably ain’t going to be anybody currently in the org.
Doctor please. Some more of these.
The Rangers have set themselves up for a great month.
I remember last year that the starting rotation had a good 4-6 week stretch. I think it was July into August. Clearly, the Rangers’ starters aren’t going to post a 3.5 ERA the rest of the way, but a 4.5 would be fine, and might be enough to win the division.
So, thinking ahead to the trade deadline and using the adage that the first two months are used to figure out your team and the next two months are used to improve the team, what should JD target?
Sheets is a no-brainer. FA’s after this season are Harden, Sheets, Lackey, and Bedard. FA after next season include Halladay, Beckett, Webb, Lee, Kazmir, Millwood, Bonderman. Only Sheets and Lee are likely to be available at the ASB as the rest are on contenders.
Does he also look into someone like Cain, who is probably at his peak trade value between now and next year’s ASB? If Cain and Cliff Lee were available, which would be preferable?
Instead of a young guy like Cain, should JD look for a bullpen arm that’s having a great year like Danys Baez, Jamie Walker, LaTroy Hawkins?
It’s a little early, and the market has yet to be defined, but my preliminary thoughts are
(1) Even with the bullpen struggles, I wouldn’t want to see a trade to firm up the bullpen, as I don’t see a Ramon Ramirez type (young and coming into his own this year) out there, though I could be tempted by Heath Bell.
(2) I would prefer Cain to Lee. Both teams might be looking to reload on offense, especially SF, of course. Blalock, Cruz, maybe a pitching prospect for Cain. I’d be down with that.
(3) I’m beginning to warm to the idea of Salty for Masterson and Bard. I’ve argued that the biggest trade chips should be reserved for obtaining a front-rotation starter, but Masterson is looking like more of a strike-out pitcher than I expected. He’s not an ace, but could be a solid replacement if not improvement on Padilla. Theo is playing this nicely by letting folks see how ML-ready Masterson is while keeping Buchholz primed at AAA.
So, basically at this early stage, I have Cain as a prime target. Possibly Heath Bell, but I would have a Masterson/Bard deal on a little higher level than a Heath Bell deal.
Still not sure where the Rangers are going to upgrade the front 2 for 2010. Sheets could be one of the guys. JD will still need to make a trade, like Cain; otherwise, we’ll have to hope for explosive development out of Holland.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
by rooster on May 6, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Upgrade the front 2
If Millwood keeps this up he will be here next year and if we sign Sheets for next year then won’t that be our front 2?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I hope not.
I hope Millwood ranks third best at most on next year’s staff.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
He might be 3rd best...
but you’re not going to put two high$ guys ahead of him. They’re not gonna pay $12M for a 3rd starter, so if Millwood vests, he won’t be our 3rd starter.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Yep. That's why I keep saying that JD is going to make a trade.
Cain, Danks, Josh Johnson, Lee, Halladay. I’m sure JD already has an idea of what he would offer for any of those guys.
It will be interesting to see who the Rangers court this offseason if both Sheets and Lackey are on the market.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
Josh Johnson is the guy.
That’s the guy you trade for to front your rotation. Only problem, he could end up being Justin Thompson.
Age
on Halladay or what?
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
"We love Wash.....As a team, we want Wash as the head of that team." Hamilton
"The NFL made me undergo a psychiatric evaluation......Please. It was an accident. If I wanted to post a picture of my penis I wouldn't have been all hunched over."- Chris Cooley.
Yeah, I'm talking about getting a guy that's going into his prime.
But, honestly, I’d be equally excited about either ‘Day or John’.
I like Josh Johnson and John Danks better than the others.
I think they’ll cost more than the others as well. Florida and Chicago both like to make trades for high upside prospects. SF tends to want ML-ready folks. I just don’t see Halladay being available, at all.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
he probably should
but JD should stay the fuck away from Kenny Williams. He’s like the guy in a van near the playground offering candy. Just stay the hell away, kids.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
This made me laugh
I don’t know why though.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
how many prospects has he traded
and seen suck/get hurt
the answer: a lot
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
JD has one on the farm.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
josh johnson
is who i wold LOVE to see us get
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
and just how exactly
do you think we’re going to pry Danks from Kenny Williams’ hands, without them being dead and cold?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it starts with one of Feliz, Holland, or Smoak.
From there, it depends on what Williams will get in the FA market and whether Thome comes back.
The Rangers have CD and Cruz to fill Williams’ need to replace Thome and Dye. One of them would be in a deal, if Williams wanted ML-ready talent.
So, for example, Feliz, CD, Moreland, Carlos Pimentel. That beats the Teixeira trade, and it should get his attention. That’s more than I was thinking it would take to get Greinke last year, which I thought might be something like CD, Cruz, and Hurley (if KC bought into Cruz’s September numbers). It’s probably more than I would want to give up for Danks, but I think it’s getting close to what it would actually cost. Without Feliz, you’d have to go something like CD, Harrison, Main, Boscan, Moreland.
I think Danks has all of the tools to dominate. He has among the lowest swing and miss rates on pitches thrown in the strike zone of all ML pitchers. He’s only 24 and has a chance to get better at keeping the ball in the zone. He gets a lot of groundball outs, which is why I think he matches up with the strengths of the Rangers ballpark better than any other young pitcher.
But, it probably doesn’t happen until the offseason, unless the White Sox completely tank in May or June.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I wouldn't do that deal
JMO
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Neither one?
Or just Feliz, CD, Moreland, Pimentel.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I think that is too much
to give up for Danks. I would rather roll with Feliz and Holland. Now if you can get them to bite on Smoak or CD with Pimentel and maybe Kiker then go for it.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
agreed.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that when JD makes the trade for a young TORP,
we will all think he has given up too much.
I would be more willing to let go of Feliz if JD can get his standard sweetener added in. Someone like Dan Hudson.
So, might need to go with Smoak, Harrison, Pimentel, Moreland rather than Smoak, Kiker, Pimentel. I would guess Williams will want two guys close to or ready for the majors.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I think you love Danks...
a little too much.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Sheets
or nothing at all. I am as invigorated by this recent stretch of play as the next guy, but this team has no real chance to do anything other than win their division at this point. The A’s are mediocre and will lose Holliday after this year, and the M’s will lose Bedard. There is no reason to trade away a bunch of guys for rentals when we are set up so well to be a complete team for years down the road. Hopefully JD learned from watching how the Rays handled the deadline last year.
And if we give up a legit prospect for a bullpen arm after passing on all the cheap arms this offseason, then I have serious concerns about who is managing our assets.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Tend to agree
Winning the division would be a HUGE victory for this club, one that would shock the baseball world and put us well on track to compete for world titles within the 2010-2012 timeframe. I would hate to give up a potential huge piece of those future world championship teams just to see us win a few more games down the stretch and perhaps win a game or two more in this year’s divisional series.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Future
It depends what we have to give up. If for instance it only took Blalock, Cruz, and a pitching prospect like Poveda for instance I am all for that to get Cain. Blalock isn’t a part of the future and if Smoak or Max looks to be ML ready by the ASB I think we could live with the loss of Blalock. While Cruz has been great so far and is under control for a few more years we have a glut of OFs and we could afford to lose him, especially for a young pitcher like Cain.
Basically if we aren’t giving up much of our future I am all for improving the team in the short term.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'd give up Blalock and someone like Poveda in a heartbeat to get legit pitching in return
But Cruz? Ehh, not to sure. It would depend a lot on whether Andruw Jones continues to hit like his old self.
You have to look at 2010 and beyond, too. Neither Byrd nor Jones is likely to be here next year, though Cruz would still be under control. Borbon or someone else could replace his spot in the outfield, but how do we replace his power? Smoak at DH?
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
I think if we trade Cruz we make resigning Byrd a priority
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Good point
I think we surely keep one or the other. I can’t see us rolling into 2010 without either one of them.
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
good, good post
Personally, while others may not agree, I think that our #1 priority in pursuing a trade needs to be a live bullpen arm. There is always going to be some of these guys who are quality available at or b4 the deadline, if we wanted too, I think we could pick up a guy like Jon Rauch or someone else like that for a guy like Jose Vallejo or Joaquin Arias + a milb bullpen arm. Some of these guys might be had for a lot cheaper than you might think.
Secondly, Id certaintly inquire about Cliff Lee, alot of people are gonna write him off as a fluke winner of the Cy Young last year, but he’s still a quality TORG. Doesnt he have an option for 2010? If he does have an option for 2010, Id put together a strong package for him that didnt include Smoak, Feliz, holland or Perez, but id be willing to part with any of Beavan, kiker, poveda, main, ramirez, Gomez, Lemon, Vallejo, Golson, and several other guys to get a deal done for him, pairing them to get the right price.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
He does have an option for 2010, and contract talks with the Indians stalled this spring.
I’m still not sure the price for a reasonable reliever will be palatable. If it is, then, yeah, pick one up, but I keep thinking about what the Rangers got for Gagne and what the Padres got for Linebrink.
So, on a related topic, my thoughts on the least replaceable players on the 40-man roster, in order from least to most replaceable:
Kinsler
Andrus
Hamilton, frankfrankkkkk
Holland, Harrison, McCarthy
Davis, Cruz, Saltalamacchia
Millwood
Byrd
everyone else
I think the Rangers will do just fine if they trade one of Davis, Cruz or Saltalamacchia. They could get away with trading Hamilton if they got a Greinke or Lincecum in return, so long as Byrd was retained. Andrus isn’t a hitting star, but his defense skill set makes him nearly irreplaceable already. I might be a little too high on him. He may be better ranked below Hamilton/frankfrankkkkk. Basically, I can’t imagine completely replacing the production of any of the top 4, even if a bunch of money was thrown into the FA market.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
There is absolutely zero chance Hamilton gets traded
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Disagree.
The only one I deem untouchable right now is Kinsler. That’s it. I’d trade Hamilton in an instant for a top tier pitcher.
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
"We love Wash.....As a team, we want Wash as the head of that team." Hamilton
"The NFL made me undergo a psychiatric evaluation......Please. It was an accident. If I wanted to post a picture of my penis I wouldn't have been all hunched over."- Chris Cooley.
No
Its more complicated than just Hamilton for a pitcher. Hamilton has quickly developed a serious fan following here. He plays everyday which means the Rangers can sell him for 81 home games. A pitcher, no matter how good they are, only pitches every 4th or 5th game depending on off days. If they make half their starts at home thats only 16 or 17 home games the Rangers can sell that player to fans.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Well
that’s the job of the GM. Do what’s best to win as many games as possible and leave emotions out of it. I’m sure looking forward to seeing Hamilton this weekend. Oh wait. He has an injury history and is already on the disabled list? Well there goes my weekend.
The 2008-2009 Dallas Mavericks are the biggest teases in the world.
"We love Wash.....As a team, we want Wash as the head of that team." Hamilton
"The NFL made me undergo a psychiatric evaluation......Please. It was an accident. If I wanted to post a picture of my penis I wouldn't have been all hunched over."- Chris Cooley.
With a guy like Hamilton its not just the GM thats involved
The owner, president and everyone is. hes not getting traded.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I would trade Hamilton to SF for Lincecum without blinking, and I think the idea of having a young CY Young winner on staff
would sell a lot of tickets.
I just don’t know if Hamilton fills enough needs for SF to think it’s a doable deal for them. The really need an OF masher, a corner IF masher, and a MIF with a decent stick. So, my fantasy trade offer would be: Hamilton+one of Arias or Vallejo+Blalock for Lincecum+one of Clayton Tanner, Henry Sosa, or Nick Noonan.
I don’t think anything like this would ever happen. It would seem like a PR nightmare on both sides, but it really fits the needs of both sides.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
That wouldn't happen
The problem with superstar players is no team is ever willing to trade theirs. Hamilton for Lincecum doesn’t happen now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
andrus above Hamilton?
this guy looked all-world last year, and now he is below our rookie SS? I know this is gauging trade value, and Andrus is younger and cheaper for longer at a harder position to fill. But Andrus is probably an Edgar Renteria starter kit. Hamilton, when he’s right, is one of the top ten hitters in baseball.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
I think Andrus' position is harder to fill.
I know there is 0.01% chance Hamilton would ever be traded, but if he were traded the Rangers could go with an OF of Boggs/Murphy in left, Byrd in CF, and Cruz in RF. It would produce a lot less offense than Byrd in LF, Hamilton in CF and Cruz in RF, but the Rangers could field an average to above average OF without Hamilton.
I don’t know where the Rangers would get a SS with the defense that Andrus provides. Notable FA SS the next two offseasons are Khalil Green (2009), JJ Hardy (2010), Rollins (2011) and Reyes (2011). If the Rangers moved Andrus, they’d likely get below average production on offense and defense from their replacement SS at least through 2010.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
But, yeah, I probably would list him just below Hamilton/frankfrankkkkk after some consideration.
Still, those top 4 are far more irreplaceable than any others on the team. Holland may get to that level in a year.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
from this org's perspective
in terms of trade value, isn’t Holland already at their level? He has already shown that he is not intimidated by this level and that he has the ability to get big leaguers out. I would trade Frank (who has had a hell of a run, but we are kidding ourselves to think he is all of a sudden utterly unhittable) before Holland. Holland is the first pitcher we have developed in a long, long time who has all of the components necessary to be “the guy”.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
heath bell
is EXACTLY the kind of player that the padres should trade
will get a fair amount back in return
is not a huge problem on your team (closer)
your team sucks already
why oh why did they let morillo go?
…i mean, REALLY? you have little to nop itching and you dont jump all over someone like that?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Run differential...
Casual research of the last few years looking for other AL teams with 153-145 differential after 26 games and couldn’t find one (I went back to 2004).
The 2004 Twins were 17-12 with a 155-145 differential and they ended up going 92-70 and won the AL Central.
Meaningless at this time but run differential tells you how you’re really playing and the Rangers are playing well, better than their record indicates.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
The run differentials suggest the divisional standings are pretty close to what they should be
Seattle is playing one game above their Pythag, we’re right on ours, so we should be a half-game up on Seattle. LAAAAA is one game below, should be .500. The A’s are a couple of games below, but should still be in last.
Very interesting…
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
The Angels have done what is necessary (didn't drown)
and Lackey & Vlad aren’t too far away from getting back.
That’s the team to worry about.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Do you, then, think that it's more likely to be us v. LAA than us v. Seattle for the division?
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
certainly.
the A’s and Mariners are already out of it in my mind. Which is funny, because Seattle still has a .5 game lead.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Im just not convinced that Vlad and Lackey are going to be
anywhere near the players they’ve been in the past or at least, not a big upgrade over the production they’ve gotten thus far. Lackey’s arm is pretty much shot and its going to be a struggle for him to stay at the top of that rotation imo. The guy who will make a difference for them is likely going to be Ervin Santana. It will be interesting to see how good the Angels actually are, b/c even with all their pitchers healthy, these Angels are not the big bad halos of the last few years.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
yes and no
if santana/escobar/lackey pitch anywhere near how well they have over their careers so far they will be very tough to beat
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
agree.
I have a hard time seeing the Angels sustain their current level of offense even with Vlad, but I also see the Rangers having a hard time sustaining their current level of starting pitching. I do think the Angels are still the best of the bunch because their pitching could crank it up a notch above all of the other teams.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
depends on vlad
i think will carrol said somewhere its a bigger deal than they are making it
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Even with Vlad not what he once was, Lackey, Santana, Weaver is a stout 1-2-3, and probably better
as a group than Felix-Bedard-Silva. Angels offense without Vlad is better than Seattle’s.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
oh if they all come back "all right" your def right
were in the same boat there
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on May 6, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a pretty big if though
Lackey and Santana are dealing with serious injuries right now. Also, whether they’re going to keep it up or not, the Angels have gotten pretty good performances from Loux, Moseley, and Palmer. Its going to be hard for Lackey and Santana to come back and provide much more than they’ve had so far.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
you have to assume the worst
they had less to worry about last year, but they still did it without Escobar and Lackey for a while…and then they went out and traded for Tex.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
They could go make another big trade
But they are running out of ammunition to make those trades and are going to see a lot of their players regress by the time Lackey, Santana, and Vlad come back.
The only thing I’m worried about is what happens when Fuentes, Shields, and Arredondo bounce back.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Like you are not a big believer in Joba
This is how I feel about Daisey’s little bro. I think at best he will be like the stock market up and down all year.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
are they really related?
she’s hot. he’s pretty fugly. go figure.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
No I was just kidding
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
what real "ammo" do they have?
wood? but who knows what you get with him because they wont ever give him MLB at bats — hes like the felix pie of MI (well before this year — he should have gotten AB but never did)
reckling? ortega? trumbo maybe? burjos?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
but what would he get them back?
not very much…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Well, not by himself perhaps
but the way he’s going he might be a guy every team asks for when talking to them.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Actually not as good as I remember, but not bad
from the preview yesterday on mlb.com
Padilla was 2-0 with a 2.05 ERA in five starts against the Mariners last year and is 4-5 with a 4.48 ERA in his career. He is 3-3 with a 4.21 ERA in nine career starts at Safeco Field.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 6, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't think this has been mentioned yet
but is that not an absolutely gorgeous swing in the picture?
Looks like he threw his hips completely into the ball, rolled his hands over, and kept his head down. It was sort of a “majestic” no-doubter was the way it was described, IIRC.
That’s why people think he can hit 30 HR’s.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
by inactive lsb user on May 6, 2009 11:47 AM CDT reply actions
Over here and at NMLR the fans really fall in love with prospects
and tend to forget they are assets to either used or traded by the big club.
So yes, we’ve been annointed with having one of, if not the best minor league system in the game.
Now what are you going to do to win more games at the major league level?
Three guys can’t play catcher at the same time. Same thing at 1B. You can only break in so many rookies at the same time in your rotation and have a reasonable expectation of success.
Yes, JD has fucked this thing up to high holy hell in the past and we’re still paying the consequences but his past should not preclude him from trying to make a bold move to help the major league team win NOW, especially with this division as wide open as it is plus there are no obvious juggernauts in the AL this year.
If JD is afraid to make a bold move, fire his ass and bring in somebody who’s not afraid.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
What do you do with all your prospects?
You keep the best ones and trade the guys that are stuck behind them for a position of need.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I don't think you necessarily keep the best ones...
what you do, is utilize your prospects (by playing them or trading them) in the manner that makes your team better. That might mean keeping the best prospects but it also might mean trading them.
For example, Smoak might be better than Davis.
What if trading Smoak would net you Roy Halladay type of pitcher, could you live with Davis at 1B?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
You always can get blown away with an offer
When that is the case, you have to take it. That just doesn’t happen too often.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
i actually agree with part of this
if you have davis and smoak, you do what you do to get better
thats how i feel about the 3 catchers as well fwiw
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I don't think JD is afraid to make a bold move.
He was in on Johan two offseasons ago; he was trying to get Greinke last year. He traded for Hamilton. I really don’t see a lack of boldness as the trouble in acquiring an ace.
I’m 100% convinced that at least one of Sheets, Lackey, Harden, Bedard, Cain, Danks, Masterson, or Halladay will be in the rotation next year and probably this year.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
i don't think he's afraid to make a bold move
but I just think the chances of grabbing one of those guys is low. Really Sheets is the only possibility as it will be infinitely easier to snag him than anyone else
Yep.
Santana just didn’t want to come here. According to the KC Star, Drayton didn’t want a prospect package, implying he wanted to run with the talent readily available rather than waiting for a next wave.
Most of the guys on that list are on contenders and would require a package that would be as sweet if not sweeter than what the Rangers got for Teixeira. Masterson is the lone exception, but he’s not the ace the Rangers need.
I still think JD will actively try to get one of Danks, Josh Johnson, or Cain, working below the radar like he did with Greinke last year.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I want to hear that Sheets doesn't count
he’s already in…and that we’re still in on another of those names.
As some people say, you have a top farm system for a reason. use it. Trade those that are “maybes” that are sought after, and keep the Feliz/Smoak types.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on May 6, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
keep in mind that
sheets/lackey/harden/bedard would cost a draft pick + cash (no prospects) after this year
halliday/cain/danks/masterson will cost prospects + money to sign them long term
i have this nightmare that everything falls right for the mariners and they end up with king felix, bedard or harden (or both), strasburg and morrow in the rotation (knock on wood) next year…
i would love to see tom hicks go out and sign rich harden (i understand the injury problems, but the guy has some of the best stuff in baseball when hes on — i would think that he would/could be gagne-like in the bullpen no problem…)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
You want us to sign Harden and put him in the bullpen?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
no im saying if you sign him and he gets hurt
you can put him in the bullpen/he would work
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
why would sheets cost a draft pick after this year?
thought if we signed him after this years draft (juneish) we would not have to give up anything to sign him?
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
i think there is a zero percent chance
that happens
and if it does i bet the brewers get some kind of comp pick…seriously
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I heard or read the other day
That if they sign him after the draft they owe nothing to the Brewers.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
At what point though do you screw up your future just for winning NOW?
And this has nothing to do with the Salty/TT/Joba debate above. But when you have the amount of talent we have you can make bold moves without screwing up your long term plan. Those are the types of moves I want to see being made.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
regarding prospects
theres multiple sides/ways to play it though
look at the angels a few years ago — they wouldnt trade their prospects for ANYTHING, held on to them until they lost value completely (mcphearson), ended up below what m ost ppl thought they wouuld be (kotchman), jerked them around (wood) and a few developed (napoli, santana, etc)
or you can trade them early/often (see how the yankees USED to be – back w/ brandon claussen, etc)
that said, there is a middle ground (look at det over the last 5-8 years, went from having a lot of “home grown” players – miner, porcello, robertson, rodney, verlander, zumaya, inge, larish, granderson, etc and then use your prospects to trade for a miguel cabrera (similar batters through age 25 include aaron, cepeda, frank robinson, mantle, andruw jones, ruben sierra, pujols — his 21-24 years were most like hank aaron fwiw) — thats what i would love to see happen, keep your homegrown players and let them establish themselves then use some of your prospect assets to go and get a game changing player…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Heres an interseting scenrio
Max begins to hit like last year, Smaok keeps hitting and moves to AAA and keeps on hitting, Davis struggles less but continues to K…
By the begining of next season do you..
1) Trade Blalock in season and Install Davis at 1st till Smoak is ready then move him to DH, and deal Max?
2) Trade Blalock in season and Install Davis at 1st till Smoak is ready then trade Davis and keep Max as DH
3) Keep Blalock and get the Supp 1st round pick, Keep Davis at 1st for the 1st half of next season and DH max, then deal Davis
4) Screw it, trade Smoak and Max and keep Davis and Blalock
5) Something else… (FA DH, Position Change..ect.)
Blalock
is a FA after this season. In #3 are you suggesting the Rangers offer him arbitration? I don’t think they will and I am not sure they want him back. Ultimately, I believe Davis gets traded during or after the 2010 season. Max probably gets the opportunity to DH next year.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
right now Blalocks just outside of class B range. If he has a decent season, he should hit the bottom
of the compensation area.
I am fairly sure he would not accwpt arbitration, with the desire to look for a multi-year deal
But how do you keep Blalock but still get the Supplemental 1st rounder?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
OK but in your scenarios it says "at the beginning of next season"
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i really hope blalock is not a ranger
after the trade deadline
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
Even if hes on pace to hit 40 HRs with a BA around .280 or so?
No offense to Justin Smoak or Max Ramirez but if we are in a playoff race I would much rather have hank than either of those two, especially if hank is crushing the ball like he is so far
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
if he is on that kind of pace
i think you could bring in a good amount of talent in return, and then what if Davis, Cruz, Kinsler, Young are all still on 40 hr paces? seems like his production would be expendable. Project all you want, he doesn’t have a situational hitting bone in his body.
what constitutes a playoff race? 5 games out, etc. We can easily fill Blalock’s shoes on this team with Andruw Jones / Byrd / Murphy (this doesn’t even take into account, Borbon/ Smoak/ MaxRam / Golson who can be on this roster). His production is not going to cost us games IMO. I do think if you can get another pitcher in return / high-tier prospects then you do it. Blalock is not going to be on this team next year. If we are in first place, i don’t make the deal, otherwise see ya, goodbye. I’ve been ready to see Hank go for a long time.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
Hank is making $6.2M this year.
Do you think he will get more than that on the FA market? With the way the market was this past winter, I think it would be very risky for the Rangers to offer Hank arbitration. I think they would prefer to spend the ~$7M on pitching.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I doubt he would get 6.2 in arbitration
I would expect something around 5.2.
At that price, if he had a successful year, he will sign for a 2 of 12 year deal.
To many teams could use him at 1st or DH for his to get only a 3M lowball deal.
Arbitration can only go down a certain percentage
I don’t have the CBA in front of me but I think its only like 10% decrease
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
80% of the previuos salary for players under team control
no restrictions for FA. Learned that in the Varitek debacle
The Rangers won't be bringing Hank back next year.
Cat is already gone. Padilla, if healthy, should have some value at the deadline and will be traded. Blalock will probably have to be given away at the deadline for a hot dog. The Rangers would rather pay Max or some other minimum salaried player to DH than bring Blalock back next year.
How much are you planning on slashing the budget for 2010?
We have three veterans in (Hank) Blalock, (Vicente) Padilla and (Frank) Catalanotto whose contracts expire this year that total over $20 million in payroll. In each case, we have young players coming up that we feel very positive about that may be as good or better than the veterans that are leaving. So we’ll have to make a decision later about whether we want to bring the veterans back or not.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/03/tom-hicks-talks-rangers.html
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
I can't imagine the Rangers
would be crazy enough to offer him arb. He gets more in arb than he does in FA is my guess.
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
"You know a pitching prospect isn't any good if John Daniels doesn't trade him away but keeps him insteaad." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
"You probably can throw Neftali Feliz on that group of overblown Rangers pitching prospect failures." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
like this year
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry
Wow
None of those even make much sense.
Are you saying we resign Hank and play him at 1st?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Then what does "install Davis at first" mean?
Isn’t he already installed there?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I trade Blalock or Jones for the first good trade offer
and use the other as DH.
4/10/09 - Josh Hamilton's last walk.
"You know a pitching prospect isn't any good if John Daniels doesn't trade him away but keeps him insteaad." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
"You probably can throw Neftali Feliz on that group of overblown Rangers pitching prospect failures." - http://crops.mlblogs.com/
I am not sure what is going to happen with Jones
I would expect to see Blalock trade at the break, with Byrd possibly as well. Jones get more time in the OF rotation subbing Cruz and Hamilton in the corners, with Borbon in CF. Max goes to DH and occasional 1st Base sub along with Jones.
A lot of this depends on Max. If he hits his way onto the DH spot at the beginning of next season, Davis could be dealt by the SB of 2010.
Wasn't there a Teagarden to Boston rumor
Where Boston supposedly was willing to do Teagarden for Buchholz or Salty for Bowden, but the Rangers wanted Buchholz+ for Teagarden and Buchholz for Salty?
I seem to recall there being talk, and I remember thinking that we should do the Teagarden for Buchholz deal if it’s on the board…..
Anybody else remember these rumors or is my memory going?
R
I don't think that trade was ever on the table
The rumor might have been there, but Boston would never trade Buchholz for Teagarden and Texas would never push their luck to ask for Buchholz plus for Teagarden.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
I like JD but...
…if that deal was on the table and we wanted more JD should be fired right now.
These umps are a bunch of bow-legged uncle fuckers.-D.A.Tron
http://tinyurl.com/ranger-rage
Yeah we had been tracking this pretty closely
between myself, Gdawg1 and Hightowersmith.
I don’t believe Teagarden for Buchholz ever materialized.
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
by inactive lsb user on May 6, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
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