OT: Migraine Headaches
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 3:54 PM CDT
102 comments
Okay. So I'm 32 and I've had "ocular migraines" for years. Since early college, anyway. For those of you who don't know, an ocular migraine presents with strange visual phenomna. Gray spots. Feeling like your eyes are crossed when they aren't. Flashing blobs traveling in front of your vision. They're really weird, but aren't generally accompanied by pain. Anyway they come on very quickly and go away just as quickly. There one second and gone the next. And, for me at least, they usually don't last long so I have never been too bothered with them.
Then my doctor tells me about five years ago that people with ocular migraines most often go on to have regular migraines. A long time passed and that never materialized. Until maybe a year ago.
They're getting worse. I'm not going to say they're the worst thing in the world. For me they're not, anyway. But they do suck, and can sometimes debilitating when they are happening.
I've been getting them with more frequency and for longer durations. I talked to my physician about it maybe two months ago, and aside from some pills I'd really rather not take there doesn't seem to be anything that he can do about it.
So, finally, my question is, how many of you live with this? They're fairly common from what I understand. For those of you who are on medication, does it help? Side effects? For those of you who are not, do you have any tips for living with them? Since light literally hurts my eyes all I know to do is to hunker down in a darkened room. That doesn't really help anything, though. It just keeps things from getting worse. What about accupuncture? I'm not a big believer in holistic and alternative medicine but I'd be willing to give some things a shot, I suppose.
And sorry for posting this here. I've been to some medical sites and forums, though, and haven't really gotten any basic, down-to-earth advice.
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I used to get these frequently
from the time I was 14 until I was about 28. Mine would come with the following effects. First I would have the visual spotting that you described. These “spots” would move around like they where floating and continue to grow until I became virtually blind. This usually lasted between 10 to 30 minutes. Usually, the spots would clear up almost simultaneously. Till this point, I did not have any pain.
About twenty to thirty minutes after the spots clearing up the headaches would come. Usually they were debilitating and as you mentioned light felt like ice picks going straight into my brain.
As for preventing them. A drug called Cafergot worked for me. It was essentially a massive dose of caffeine. I took one at the first sign of visual problems, one more thirty minutes later, and then one every hour until the pain stopped. Once I started using these, the pain was either non-existent or at least short lived. If I did not have these, I would drink as much caffeinated drinks as I could once I started seeing the spots. This was not perfect, but it seemed to help.
Mainly, as I got older, the headaches have decreased in severity and number. I now only get them about once a year.
Hope this helps and I understand what you are talking about.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This.
This is exactly the same migraine experience that I have. I get ’em about 2-3 times per year however. I usually lay in my bed with all of the lights out and curse having to deal with the reality of it.
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate that you have these
but I am glad that someone understands what I am talking about. When I have tried to describe these to people in the past, I always got a sympathetic but unknowing look like I was a little crzay.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
most people, when they have a bad headache, they call it a “migraine.” It isn’t. Boy is it every not a migraine. But you’re right. It’s terribly difficult to explain the vision part of it.
Do you ever get the numbness and nausea?
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Occasionally I did
especially when I was getting them pretty frequently. I had the nausea more than the numbness. I still remember deciding that it was better to just puke to the side of the bed rather than leave my cold dark room to go to the bathroom and face possibility of seeing any light.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
yeah. I’ve been there. I usually just bring a giant cooking pot to the room during the 15-20 minute window between the vision thing and the pain to my bedroom just in case I need to vomit during the ordeal.
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's sad/good is that you have that time period to plan for it.
It is like shit this is going to suck. Well T-15 minutes to get ready – better find a cold dark room now
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
it’s very strange. You know it is going to happen and you can’t do anything to stop it really. All you have is a small window to prepare and to hope you don’t have any plans that night.
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're not talking to me
but I only very occasionally get the nausea. Though I have a lot of nausea and may just not notice additional nausea.
I’ve never had numbness, though. Like in the extremities? Where?
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get numbness every time...
just on the REALLY bad ones. Usually, what happens is, I’ll start to feel it in my pinkie finger and it will then slowly crawl up my right arm and then slowly spread to the other fingers and then, once it reaches my thumb, feeling starts to return in reverse order of numbness.
That happens most of the time I get numbness. I’ve also had it happen to my face and head which was beyond troubling/strange as it isn’t regular “slept on my arm funny” numbness, it’s like…a continuing slow crawl of expanding numbness that moves across my body.
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I had the body numbness
it was like the pain was so bad that the rest of the nerves were just shutting down. It is a really weird experience.
Yeah the numbness is almost as hard to explain as the vision thing.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
you have to imagine, migraine specialists hear these symptoms all day and not once are they explained the same way twice.
by ghostofErikThompson on May 8, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell
I don’t think I ever described it the same way twice. I can’t imagine what they are hear all day long.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really need an edit button for these posts
Gawd, I’m horrible today.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on May 8, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be weird.
I dont’ get that and hope I never do.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot to mention caffeine
Normally something I avoid, caffeine does seem to help when I have a migraine. I don’t think I could tolerate a “massive” dose, though.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've had migraines for a while
I get them ~once a month. Luckily, mine isn’t too brutal, I get tunnel vision beforehand so I either load up on tylenol or some migraine medication when that starts happening. I know my mom and uncle both take medicine during their migraines but haven’t tried the preventative stuff.
Honestly, the preventative medication never seemed like a bad option to me, I just don’t have migraines bad enough to go that route. I think you’d be just fine if you started using some preventative medication though and it definitely helps to take some topamax or something as a migraine is starting up. Do you take any medicine when you get your migraines or do you just kind of let them run their course?
(As a sidenote, my migraines are how I discovered I have multiple sclerosis. Got tunnel vision one day and three weeks later I still had it in my left eye. Got an MRI and there you go.)
by Motiak on May 8, 2009 4:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about the MS
I generally let them run their course. I try to get in a dark room. Drink caffeine. Sometimes take Ibuprofen. Not big into taking pills but will if it gets bad enough.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to get them several times a week
Stress is a big factor, and I have a high-stress, deadline-oriented job. I have medication that I can take, but it only works if I feel one coming on, and I can never predict when one is on the way — as you said, they come and go pretty quickly.
My solution was to try and reduce my stress, without quitting my job. I jog every other day, and do some light lifting 2 or 3 times a week. I also do yoga a lot. I was opposed to the idea of yoga, until I got into it. It’s nothing like I thought it would be. I also go to a massage school by my house about twice a month.
Also, try and avoid caffeine and booze as much as possible. If you’re like me, that’s easier said than done. But if you can limit your intake, that will help you immeasurably. Sleep is the most important thing.
I still get them about every other month these days. I’m 31, and a couple of years ago I was getting them several times a week. They suck, and can be dangerous if you’re driving. But, I’ve found that they’re very manageable if you keep your stress level low. Good luck.
I
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on May 8, 2009 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There's a great King of the Hill...
episode where Hank takes up yoga.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the roger stabach pose
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 8, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Job
I think that’s probably it. My job is very high stress not in a deadline way but as in “if I don’t do well, I go broke” kind of way. I do exercise but I may ramp it up. I cannot abandon my business or do anything to decrease the stress (I’ve already done my best to manage it…positive outlook and so forth).
There are two or three yoga studios in my building. May try that.
I have issues with sleep that I could probably work on. They do seem worse when I don’t get enough rest. Especially the visual stuff.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exercise
I agree that exercise also is quite important. That’s one reason why I think acupuncture is helpful. My understanding is that it releases the same type of endorphins as you get from exercising. That’s why I’ve experienced a “runner’s high” following acupuncture.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on May 8, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wife
My wife has struggled with chronic migraines for several years now. Very few things have really worked to help reduce her migraines.
The first thing I would do is find a specialist. There are plenty of causes for migraines and they’re not just treated by simple “migraine medication”. So find a neurologist, and if you can, find a migraine specialist. There are a few in the area (assuming you live in the metroplex).
Beyond that, there’s a list of typical migraine triggers that you should try to avoid, with caffeine and alcohol being common ones.
As far as coping, I can’t really tell you much. My wife just powers through them as long as she can. However, it’s common for her to have to go to the doctor to get a “migraine breaking” giant shot of narcotics.
by jthig32 on May 8, 2009 4:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sorry about your wife
Hers sound worse than mine, too. I can’t imagine getting to the point that I would get a morphine (or similar) injection.
I don’t really drink much caffeine (unless I have a headache or weird vision) and I no longer drink alcohol at all.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Black Francis...
I’ve actually suffered from migraines for pretty much my entire life (a few years off during puberty). Growing up, I would maybe get one a month, which were pretty debilitating. I very rarely experience auras, but had all the other symptoms that wouldn’t go away until at least 6-8 hours of sleep. Nothing is harder than falling asleep while feeling extreme pain. Thankfully the nausea at least went away for the most part as I aged. I ended up having a bad car accident when I was 19 that bumped things up from the once a month to 2-3 a week, which is when I finally went in for treatment.
In terms of meds, I take two kinds: drugs I take every day and those I only take to treat the migraine when I get one.
Preventative:
Elavil – also used to treat insomnia and is considered a lower level anti-depessent. It’s something you take every day. I don’t suffer any side effects from it, but have a friend that experienced hallucinations on it.
Nadolol – blood pressure meds (not that I have high blood pressure)
Treatment -
Naproxen – essentially fancy Aleve, which I take at the first possibility of migraine. It’s good because it doesn’t destroy your liver or stomach lining like other basic pain meds if you take them a lot.
Zomig – the naproxen only works 10% of the time, so that’s when you need to take the fancy stuff. It’s orally disintegrating and tastes horrible while it dissolves, but it also works 98% of the time within an hour or two. Side affects for me: muscle soreness, in other words you feel like you’ve just run 5 miles, so don’t expect to play any sports later in the day. All in all though, I’d rather feel a little worn down than being in terrible pain.
Ambien – Worst Case Scenario – if nothing else works on a particular migraine, I knock myself out so I can get some sleep as it goes away.
Even after the preventative meds, I still get migraines about once a week, but now I can stop them within the hour instead of dealing with it for the rest of the day.
My suggestion for you:
Find a good neurologist who specializes in headache/migraine. The drugs I use might not work for you, but your neurologist will be able to help narrow things down for you. While I typically avoid prescription drugs if at all possible, these drugs have pretty much made my current life possible.
Aside from that, keep a journal of what you eat/drink and when, sleeping habits, workload. It’ll help you figure out patterns to see what your migraine triggers are. Regular exercise helps a lot with prevention as well.
As for alternative medicine, you never know if you’ll get a nice placebo effect, but I wouldn’t count one it unless stress is a big trigger for you.
by ksf42001 on May 8, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yours...
…sound like they’re a lot worse than mine. I’ve found that Advil will help, but few people know that you can actually develop a tolerance to NSAIDs so I try not to take them unless I have to. Naproxen, for some reason, has always bothered my stomach.
They’re going to have to get pretty bad before I see a neurologist. I have a weird insurance plan that is very good, but basically if I want anything other than emergency care I have to go 200 miles away. If it were just a consult that would be fine but they’re going to want to test, which would have me going back and forth all the time.
That’s not an option yet.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
For me, it was only time intensive at first, since they of course wanted to prove I didn’t have a brain tumor or whatnot. For you, since you already had the ocular migraine documented for years, it should only be an initial consult, with you getting a grab bag of different treatment meds (since that seems to be what you’re focusing on) to try to see what works best for you. If something does work, then you’ll get an actual prescription.
After that’s settled, it’s pretty much a once a year visit to check up unless there’s a major shift in your symptoms/reactions in between.
by ksf42001 on May 8, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been so long
…and I didn’t actually have an MRI, come to think of it. I had a C/T scan. I’m pretty sure they’d want to do another. That was about 10 years ago.
And the ocular migraines haven’t been technically diagnosed, I don’t think. The neurologist who ordered the C/T scan didn’t say anything about them. A few years later a different doctor looked into and said ocular migraines was about the only thing it could be. So I doubt it’s in my chart. It could be, I guess. Not really sure.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zomig
I had to edit ad copy for that drug in a freelance job couple years ago. I’m glad to hear an actual on-the-ground success story with it.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on May 8, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any reason you don't want to take your prescribed med?
Side-effects? Personal views?
by cmkelly29 on May 8, 2009 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just don't like taking pills
I’m already on an anxiolytic…my only prescription drug. I cannot have some of the medications out there and just plain don’t want to take the ones that are available to me.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it Lexapro?
There are some pretty dramatic visual effects and a “buzzing” in your head if you take lexapro and miss taking it (even for a few hours).
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Klonopin, a benzodiazepine.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's intersting...
a lot of female alcoholics are also addicted to benzodiazepines. They apparently activate the same brain receptors as alcohol.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I'm neither female nor alcoholic
There is one benzodiazepine that’s still prescribed for alcohol withdrawal. I can’t remember what it’s called.
They don’t work on the same receptors, though. Benzos work on GABA receptors. Alcohol magnifies the effect of benzos and vice versa, so that’s why you see so much of it I would guess. No kidding, if I drink one stout bourbon and coke, I feel it pretty good. I drink one more and I’m done for the night.
Klonopin is a long-acting benzo, unlike Xanax or Ativan. People can really get fucked with those. They are still widely prescribed for anxiety, though, along with Klonopin and Valium. Klonopin is the only benzo commonly prescribed today for anxiety that doesn’t produce a high. The drawback is that there are dependence issues. But it’s not addictive…my dose is exactly the same as it was when I started two years ago and I don’t feel like I need more to get the same effect. No tolerance. That’s why FDA still considers it front line treatment for anxiety and some panic disorders.
Some people just don’t respond to SSRIs or cannot tolerate them, so benzodiazepines are still used a lot. I know a bunch of people who use them.
This was a response to ab03, too.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually incorrect.
Alcohol works on a few receptors in the brain, one of which is the GABA receptor. It doesn’t work on the same part of the receptor as BZD’s or barbituates do, but it does stimulate them. This is the main reason that alcohol overdoses cause respiratory depression and coma.
Also, there are a couple BZD’s that are used in alcohol withdrawl, but it’s only used in withdrawls that result in acute symptoms like delirium tremens, tachycardia, and hallucinations.
by GhettoBear04 on May 8, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I ain't no doctor
I guess that makes sense with alcohol and benzos, because the two together pack some kind of punch. And just so Miles or somebody doesn’t read this and think, “hey, next weekend I’m gonna get some Xanax and vodka…that would so rule”, I should say it’s a good way to end up in the ER or worse. I was a veteran drinker before I went on Klonopin and I’m saying it’s nothing to fuck around with.
Librium, I think, was the benzo I was thinking of that some alcoholics get on. I believe it has the longest half life of any of them.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orgasms help
Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat.
by Finnerty.Fan on May 8, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually orgasm will make it much worse.
Tried that, haha.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Migraines
I don’t get the “regular” migraines, but I do have the “aura” ones about 2-4 times a year. They’re not usually severe, mostly muscle tightness in my neck and shoulders and a slight headache.
I also get the occasional headache if I haven’t been sleeping enough- they feel like a nasty sinus headache, almost like someone’s pressing their thumb into the space between my nose and my right eye socket. I usually have to take about 4 ibuprofen and put something hot (either a hot compress or a dab of Tiger Balm) on the spot where it hurts- and most of the time, that only lessens the pain. Only a good night’s sleep will make it go away entirely.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on May 8, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Raises hand
Things that help me seem to be …
walking regulary, or reg exercise, eases muscle and back tension
try to avoid caffeine – except for one cup of joe every am, which doesn’t seem to hurt
try to avoid sugar, too
I’ve found carbo-loading helps tons – a big plate of pasta, especially right after sustained exercise [long runs or hikes] works wonders for my post workout migraines.
I’ve discovered an off-the-shelf drug cocktail that works well when I feel the onset – 600mg of ibuprofen and 2 generic excedrins – only the worst of the worst migraines can really get me down now.
After my cocktail kicks in I might stand under a hot shower and let the water pound the top of my head for as long as I can, too – when it’s really really bad – helps you get to sleep.
I’ve never seen a doctor or taken official migraine meds. I have a bad back and bad eyesight. I blame these two things mostly.
by shroomer on May 8, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know...
…I’ve noticed that carbs seem to help. I figured it was just a coincidence or placebo effect (comfort food thing). I love pasta.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Want to say thanks...
…for all the great replies. I’m a surly bastard son of a bitch and yet you guys give me migraine advice. Thanks.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dehydration?
I recently read a report on how migraines have been linked to not drinking enough water.
So...why is John Hart still being paid?
by Texasportsfan on May 8, 2009 5:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well that can't be an issue with me
I drink lots of water.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am waiting for the post something like...
“What in the hell it this post doing here? This is just yet another example of how these FanPosts are turning into junk! You are an asshole for even thinking we care about stupid crap like this.”
So...why is John Hart still being paid?
by Texasportsfan on May 8, 2009 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well they can post that if they want, I guess.
It doesn’t really belong here.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Introspection isn't your strong suit, is it?
I’m not trying to be a dick here, really, but you’ve made several comments of this nature, which are all obviously a defensive reaction regarding your diary, and also seemingly indicative of the fact that you misunderstand the criticism it engendered.
Since mine was one of the main snarks that you keep passive-aggressively responding to, let me just say this: Nobody disagreed with the point you were making. People took issue b/c It was banal, tedious, and needlessly vagi-whiney.
But foremost, your diary got the gas face because it was So. Ridiculously. Obvious. Complaining “Why do I always end up in bad traffic on the way home??” That would have been a FAR Fresher lamentation.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on May 8, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dustin...
I recommend giving acupuncture a shot. It seems as though this has gotten to be a pretty serious issue for you, and most treatments haven’t been working. Why not try a different approach? I started doing acupuncture a few weeks back for help with adehisive capsulitis in my shoulder following a dislocation. I was somewhat skeptical about it, but I have been pleasantly surprised. It hasn’t been a cure-all or anything, but along with physical therapy it has helped with the pain and improved range of motion.
Acupuncture is similar to massage therapy (another treatment that you might want to look into). It represents a different way of getting at certain health problems that aren’t responding to other treatments. It’s also very relaxing. I think you should give it a shot. I bet you will like it.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on May 8, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Yeah, I was already thinking a lot about acupuncture. I’m skeptical about how sticking a bunch of pins in a person can solve their maladies, but you know, I’ve had too many people tell me it works not to try it.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is going to sound crazy...
but I went to a hypnotherapist on a lark and had a genuinely therapeutic experience. They apparently have some good results with chronic pain issues.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went...
because my girlfriend believes in reincarnation, and as a result stopped drinking.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
I would have paid extra for that.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 8, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha
yeah. But then if you paid extra how would you know you got your money’s worth? See what I mean?
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or end up clucking like a chicken?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 8, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does it work?
I don’t really know the answer to that, but my acupuncturist explained to me the Western and Eastern definitions of how it works. The Eastern explanations is all about meridians, blockages, chi and all that stuff which I have no idea about, but the Western medicine explanations made sense (stimulating your muscles, stimulating blood flow, releasing endorphins, etc.) and many of those claims have been (at least partially) verified through peer-reviewed studies.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on May 8, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I did read a magazine article once that summed up some of the science. Still sounds weird to me but at some point when I have the time I’ll try it.
Too bad I don’t live in Austin anymore. Acupuncture city down there. Can’t throw a rock with out hitting one.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
I could recommend one to you.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on May 8, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Migraine
I get a few sinus related migraines a year, and all i can really do to feel better is stay in bed for the day.
I did get some tension headache / migraine pills thats basically a supped up exedrine, caffeine, asprin and a barbiturate. That pill usually takes the edge off, and trying to get moisture in my head helps (but thats more for the sinus part)
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 8, 2009 5:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mine are VERY often triggered by sinus issues
Believe me, I know what a sinus headache feels like and they themselves can get bad, but migraines shit all over them.
I finally got one of those netti pot things last fall, but they don’t help if they blockage is way up there. And they’re so damn gross.
My stomach, honestly, just doesn’t tolerate pills that well. That’s why I’m looking for other coping mechanisms.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey hey hey
smoke weed everyday. My friend gets some bad migraines and he says weed is the only thing that really helps.
by Butters on May 8, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of my friends claims he has migraines
…I have my doubts from the way he’s describes them. He also swears by pot but even if it worked for the migraine pot makes me paranoid these days. Not an option but thanks.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright man, just thought I'd throw that out there.
Fortunately, I’m lucky enough to have never experienced a migraine.
Good luck to you, my friend.
by Butters on May 8, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your friend
just wants an excuse to smoke pot.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 9, 2009 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
neti pot
i tried one too, didnt help much when i got bad enough to need to use it. Plus i always felt like i was going to gag or drown.
sorry, wasnt really trying to compare your migraine to a sinus headache. I know a full blown migraine is way worse, i’ve had them.
The sinus headache is more like a mini migraine.
honestly if you cant stomach pills, i’d go for the eastern medicine route of acupuncture and yoga/stretching.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on May 8, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
I didn’t think you were comparing them. I was just relaying that sometimes I’ll get a sinus headache and for some unknown reason it will occasionally make the leap to migraine.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know, I just realized
for similar reasons, klonopin shoudl be helping with the migraines. I’m surprised it doesn’t
by ab03 on May 8, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
…they may be worse if I weren’t taking it. Can’t really know.
My dose is very small. .5 mg twice a day. I’d prefer to keep it that way because of the dependency issue.
Can you explain how acid would work??? I haven’t done that in years and it sounds like fun, actually.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
its specifically geared towards cluster headaches, but I guess people have forgotten that that was the original purpose of LSD.
I’m not exactly sure of the mechanics but it seems to work – and at sub psychadelic levels so its not just that you’re tripping out so hard that you’ll forget. Maybe just as simple as being a good vasoconstrictor? Not really sure.
If you google LSD and migraines, you get some interesting reads. Again, most of them refer to cluster headaches but some say they treat all vascular headaches
by ab03 on May 8, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I thought they came up with it to make commies talk.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
There are some antiepileptic drugs that have been approved for migraine prevention, but no BZD’s as far as I’m aware of.
by GhettoBear04 on May 8, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
I guess these people are having psychosomatic reactions
by ab03 on May 9, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, to clarify:
BZD’s and anti-epitleptic drugs are not the first line treatment for migraine prevention. They are also not in the group of drugs that form the second-line of recommended treatment. So while there may be those who are given it, chances are, they aren’t given purely for migraine prevention purposes. Mainly because if that is the only problem being treated, there are about 20 drugs with better evidence for effectiveness.
by GhettoBear04 on May 9, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sucks BF...
I get bad headaches a lot, but not sure if they are migraines or not. They certainly aren’t as bad as what you get. MIne are caused by Meniere’s disease which also causes Tinnitus which is now permanent in my right ear. I’m not sure if your migraines cause dizziness and nausea, but if it does you may want to try Valium. I take little 5 mg tablets of it and it relaxes me a lot. Stress, sodium, and caffeine are my worst enemies. Avoiding those things along with regular exercise seem to help relieve my headaches and dizziness.
Good luck to you.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on May 8, 2009 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Occasionally I’ll get nausea. More often I will get dizzy. Every time I will get dizzy in fact.
I also have tinnitus but that comes from playing the rock n’ roll. It sucks. Sorry you have that.
Can’t use valium as I’m already on another benzodiazepine for anxiety disorder.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Black Francis-
You don’t have to see a migraine specialist yet. There are family medicine/internal medicine docs who can guide you through the first few levels of treatment without paying the specialist fees. Outside of the various triptans used for acute treatment of migraines, there are three classes of drugs that can be used for prevention of migraines.
An older class of antidepressants called the tricyclic amines (TCA’s-specifically amytriptiline) has been approved for prevention and I’ve watched a family medicine physician write the Rx for it. Certain antiepileptics have also been approved (along with a few that aren’t FDA approved but can be used).
The class that might make the most sense for you (given what little I know about your specific symptoms) are the beta blockers. They provide decent prevention for migraines plus are also used in some anxiety disorders. I’m not sure if it’s the specific type you have, but it should probably help your anxiety or potentially even negate the need for the BZD.
Again, you don’t have to see a migraine specialist for these treatments.
by GhettoBear04 on May 8, 2009 8:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The fees aren't really the problem
It’s the distance I have to go to have an office visit with anyone. My insurance is owned by Scott and White Hospital in Temple, and they’re great, but it’s far away. I have to use their doctors, their pharmacy, etc.
I was on a tricyclic once and it made me very ill. Next I tried Lexapro (all this for anxiety and stomach issues) and that made me even sicker. So that’s how I ended up on Klonopin. No side effects whatsoever.
But there is the dependence. I’m doing pretty well and am not sure I’m ready to ween off of it. I heard it’s a bitch. I don’t know if taking a beta blocker would make the withdrawal easier. You an MD or something? In theory, what do you think about that? I’ll ask my doctor next time I see him but would still like to know what you think. Not medical advice, of course.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MD/PhD Student
Just finished our Neuro block a couple of weeks ago. Anyways, you wouldn’t necessarily have to go off your BZD to take the beta blocker, they work on different pathways. BZD’s increase GABA, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter (increase the off). Beta blockers work by turning off the stimulation that controls your fight or flight responses. They are the drug of choice for anxiety that comes from specific events (like public speaking). They are also approved by the FDA for use as migraine prevention.
It’s something you should definitely bring up to your doc the next time you visit. They’re cheap and generally well-tolerated. I’m not 100% if you can or can not combine them with a BZD, but there’s nothing glaring that pops up about it being a problem. Also, if your doc and you decide that a beta blocker is preferable instead of a BZD, there is a drug that can be given to wean you off of the BZD.
by GhettoBear04 on May 8, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beta blockers and Neuro
OT: but did you study that really cool recent finding that B-blockers can be used to selectively destroy old memories? Researchers are considering them as a possible angle for treating PTSD (think Eternal Sunshine)
by JBImaknee on May 9, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me loves the lexapro.
Except for the head buzzing and weird visual effects when I miss a dose. But otherwise, me loves the lexapro.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on May 9, 2009 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I wouldn’t discourage people from seeing a specialist. If there’s extra work or extra money involved, sure. But I would assume most people’s insurance copays/deductibles don’t change between primary care physician and specialist.
Obviously if the migraines are infrequent it may not be worth it. But if they are effecting your life on a regular basis, why on earth would you NOT want to see someone devoted to that area of medicine, all things being equal?
Heck my wife saw a non-migraine specializing neurologist, and a fairly highly regarded one in our area as far as we could tell. But once she stopped getting good results, we moved on to a migraine specialist and the difference in treatment, results and focus were absolutely night and day.
Now this is coming from a guy who’s wife is effected by migraines on some level on a daily basis, so maybe I have a different perspect. But for just about any condition, if money/effort is relatively equal I don’t understand the idea of trying different medications from a general practitioner when specialists are available.
Just my two cents.
by jthig32 on May 9, 2009 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
…there is a drug that can be given to wean you off of the BZD.
Being paranoid of drugs, I have researched benzos up, down, and sideways. Whatever I didn’t understand, I studied and read further until I did. I’m totally unaware of a drug to help ween off one, though, and would be extremely interested in finding out what it is.
I’ve heard of people swtiching to Valium for their ween because of it’s longer half life, but nothing else. Please let me know. The fear of withdrawal during already stressful times is what’s keeping me on Klonopin. I’d sort of like to know what I’m like without it these days, but with my job I cannot afford the rebound anxiety and WD symptoms. I need to be on my game 60 hours a week when possible.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 11:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dammit.
The above should be a reply to “MD/PhD Student” by GhettoBear04.
I should also add that I have a friend who’s about to try to get off the Klonopin, too, and if there’s anything I can suggest that she talk to her doctor about I’d be grateful.
by Black Francis on May 8, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry...
I worded that incorrectly. There is a drug that can be used in cases of overdose to bring the receptor function back to normal. However, it would actually cause the withdrawal symptoms that I now realize you are concerned about.
If it were me, I would talk to your doctor about a beta blocker for your migraine with an added potential side benefit of helping your anxiety. After looking back at how you describe it, it sounds more like you have generalized anxiety disorder instead of anxiety from specific stressors. I would stay on the BZD for now at least and then see later on if you can’t taper off the BZD. Either choice, the only way to truly avoid withdrawal symptoms from BZD use is to taper off the dosage.
Sorry again about my mixup.
by GhettoBear04 on May 9, 2009 12:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No problem
I sniffed out that something was either wrong or there was some very new info or a brand new drug out there.
I was diagnosed with panic disorder. With the Klonopin I still have some anxiety, and have more when I don’t do what I call my “mental work”, but I very rarely have the panic anymore. The doctor said he’d have trouble calling it PTSD but he said I could think of it kind of that way….it all started when something started growing in my duodenum that shouldn’t have been growing there, making me quite ill. I also had a benign tumor sprout up in my gall bladder right where the bile duct is, and it caused some problems. So I went from someone who’d never been sick to someone who looked like they had cancer or something. And probably felt like it. Basically it blew my mind up. Doc said panic was mimicking the symptoms I had. There were other panic symptoms, too, but I never noticed them so much because the stomach problems simply overwhelmed them.
Klonopin fixed me right up, generally speaking. Since I started taking it, you’re right, it’s more like GAD than anything else. Now and then a panic attack. Rare, short in duration, not as severe, and more like a typical panic attack with fewer stomach symptoms.
by Black Francis on May 9, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
The way you are describing it makes me wonder. You’ll forgive me if I don’t want to go too much more into it (me not having a degree or being liscenced, you deserving privacy, etc), but definitely talk to your doc about a beta blocker for your migraines. It would be interesting to see if your anxiety symptoms improve as well.
by GhettoBear04 on May 9, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Well I had a whole diagnostic team who apparently agreed on it. I was a real weird case. It took them forever to figure out that gall bladder thing because I wasn’t showing typical symptoms of that and was a bit too young to have stones. I failed a HIDA scan and they couldn’t understand why…no stones were seen on ultrasound. Surgeon found the tumor. Pesky little bastard. Luckily at the time I was living in Austin and it was easier to get there, or else I probably would have died. Not from the gall bladder but from the other thing. I don’t like doctors, hospitals, or any of it, and resisted going even then. If I had to drive/ride farther I would have flatly refused.
Anyway after the treatments and surgeries I still had the same symptoms — only a bit milder — so they got back on the case and that’s ultimately what they came up with. The RX for it did wonders, so I have a lot of confidence in the work they did. God knows I was given every test a human could have. Up the ass, down the throat. Get in this tube. Drink this shit. Now drink this other shit. Now eat this radioactive egg sandwich so we can see how fast it goes through you (I shit you not — I had to eat a radioactive sandwich). On and on.
At this point I don’t really care, anyway. That was over two years ago. I’m sure things have changed since then. I know I still have some anxiety but it’s changed totally in its character, not just in its severity.
Don’t care about my privacy on here. I realize that it wouldn’t take a genius to find out who I am but I don’t know why on Earth they’d care. Am wondering if you’re questioning their diagnosis…I don’t need for you to really get into that part, like I said. Just curious. Beyond that all I really care about is moving forward. Getting rid of the migraines certainly would help and I thank you for the advice to discuss the beta blockers with my doctor.
by Black Francis on May 9, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever you do
don’t read all the cowpoke posts from last night.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on May 9, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow that sucks...
I’ve never ever had a headache I cannot imagine what a migraine is like.
A Rod you put the Bitch in Tits.
by BigGuns on May 9, 2009 8:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I knew someone
Who had migraines that ultimately were correlated with high blood pressure. Apparently their blood pressure would occasionally spike (it wasn’t always high, but spiked with stress or randomly, causing docs to miss it), and that would probably induce the migraines. With blood pressure meds, the migraines went away.
The visual description you gave (along with some other people) makes me think of epilepsy. Is it possible that you are having mild seizures in the visual areas of your brain, causing you to perceive shapes and leading to headaches? Maybe the seizures in your visual area lead to hallucinations, whereas in other areas lead to migraines?
by JBImaknee on May 9, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably not.
20% of people have auras before their migraine. It’s termed “Classic Migraines.” It can present as anything from seeing stars to flashing lights to . You can have an aura for certain types of seizure also.
80% of people with migraines don’t get auras though, so it’s not always common knowledge.
by GhettoBear04 on May 9, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all but certain what I have are migraines
For one, that’s what the doctor said. For another, I’m on Klonopin which was originally developed to treat seizures. So even at a low dose I would think it would prevent a mild seizure. Remember than I’d been having the visual complaints forever…long, long before I ever had those health issues and subsequent anxiety which I ended up with Klonopin for. And it’s only relatively recently I began to experience the pain of a migraine.
Anyway, no doctor has ever mentioned the word “seizure” to me.
by Black Francis on May 9, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
And while my blood pressure must certainly spike at times, its baseline is at a very healthy level.
This, and the above, should have been a reply to JBI.
by Black Francis on May 9, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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