Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Michael Lewis holds too high an opinion of his work


There's an interview with Michael Lewis up on msnbc.com
, which seems to indicate that Lewis has too high an opinion of the influence of his book Moneyball:

Q: We’re six years removed from the publication of "Moneyball." People are still talking about it, and it would appear that just about every team — to some degree — has adopted its principles. How would you assess its impact today?

A: It’s become conventional wisdom. The A’s have no intellectual advantage, as evidenced by their performance. There’s a shadow baseball team that would have been members of the Oakland A’s if "Moneyball" had never happened, but now those guys are more valued.

So now, it's less interesting to me. The interesting thing about the "Moneyball" idea is how it has now extended into other sports. And the concept gets richer and more complicated when it's a genuine team sport. Baseball is not a true team sport like basketball or soccer, cricket, rugby, football. Those sports are in virgin territory there. In baseball, from now on, the progress of understanding the game will be slower. The last holy grail is defense, but even for that, a lot of things have been learned.

But still, not every baseball team embraces it as fully as they could.

* * *

Q: And I guess, since you point out that "Moneyball" contributed to the A’s losing their competitive advantage, the Rockets should be wary.

A: Right. The only reason the A's let me in is that they thought people [cared] so little ... about what they were doing. They couldn't imagine anyone would care about what I wrote.

 

Think about this for a second...Lewis believes that Beane & Co. are so brilliant, they were able to carve out a niche to allow the A's to succeed well beyond what their budget would normally allow.  But they were also so dumb that they allowed Lewis in to write a book about what they were doing, and didn't realize that that book would result in everyone copying what the A's were doing and eliminating their competitive advantage.

Lewis is saying that the A's are no longer successful, and sabermetric evaluation has become widespread in MLB, because of his book.

He's ignoring the fact that other teams were already picking up on what the A's were doing, that Beane disciples were being hired in other franchises, that younger, stat-friendly types like Theo Epstein and Josh Byrnes and Jon Daniels were establishing themselves in front offices.  He's also ignoring the fact that other teams were already picking up on the notion that OBP was being undervalued, and by the time the book came out, the market was already adjusting and Beane was moving on to other areas.

Lewis apparently thinks that, if it weren't for Michael Lewis, the A's would still be winning divisional titles and no other teams would be valuing guys like Kevin Youkilis and Jack Cust, and would the entire industry would be fascinated by RBIs and batting average while the A's ran rings around everyone else.

What a monumental ego.  And how disappointing that the author of Moneyball still, it seems, doesn't get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comment 41 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Ahhh...Moneyball

I still can’t believe it brought Oakland so many World Series trophies.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jun 1, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions  

That book was interesting, but mainly because of the access he got and the look inside the inner workings of a front office.

The whole, “The A’s are so smart! They just picked Jeremy Brown, the best player on the board, and got him for so little money!” part of it was stupid.

Lewis struck me as someone who didn’t really unerstand his subject matter.

I’m zero percent surprised that he’s now gone and gotten all high on his own self importance.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.

by thedirkatron on Jun 1, 2009 11:51 AM CDT reply actions  

+1 with the access

i usually like his writing, but your ego is a tad large there dude

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

And IIRC, isn't it about time that the sequel to Moneyball comes out?

You know, the one Lewis predicted would be about Jeremy Brown and the rest of his undervalheralded draft class leading the Oakland beanes to their 2nd straight champeenship?

Like most, I enjoyed the book a lot, but the way he never hesitated to omit or misrepresent facts that contradicted his premise was also a big turn off. Made me question how much was true in Liar’s Poker, an even more enthralling book.

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jun 1, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding about Liar's Poker.

I hope he didn’t abuse that literary license of his.

¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!

I came here to split hairs. And you?

by inactive lsb user on Jun 1, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

The weird thing about Moneyball

is that I think it chronicles both the strengths and weaknesses of the Beane approach without really intending to.

I think the irony is that the philosophy described in Moneyball was in its own way really rigid, while mocking the rigidity of the conventional approaches. Billy Beane is too smart by about half, or however that saying goes. He over-thinks things – and sometimes that logic justifies itself at the expense of smart baseball decisions. For all his genius decisions and moves, he has bone-headed ones as well. Just like every other GM. And I think that Theo Epstein and others have been really successful by using the Oakland approach for the very reason that they took the good parts and ignored the bad parts.

I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.

by JBImaknee on Jun 1, 2009 11:54 AM CDT reply actions  

In the short-term, probably.

When any team or any GM has a run with players like Hudson, Mulder, and Zito, there is a certain amount of luck involved to have all that work out so well for you. But yes, if they had been able to just keep some of those guys around, they would have been able to sustain their success a bit longer. But…then of course, you run the risk of having players around well past their prime on albatross contracts no matter how big your payroll is.

Being a GM means making tough decisions. Sometimes they work well for you, sometimes they don’t. You need a good front office team, good scouting, and balls the size of canteloupes.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jun 1, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

They wouldn't have been able to resign all of their players even with a bigger payroll

Giambi and Tejada are guys I can think of off the top of my head that got huge contracts that most teams wouldn’t have given out anyways.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jun 1, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

uhm, i think you can say that about any team not named the yanks or sox.

"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller

by Longhorn on Jun 1, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

< espn >

What are these others “teams” that you are speaking of? < /espn >

Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."

by LBBRangerFan on Jun 1, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

atlanta braves?

florida marlins? (to an extent)

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I listed the Marlins above

But the Braves, I don’t think so.

by octoberty on Jun 1, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

sry

misread it

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

i remember listening to an interview

of Michael Lewis on local bay area radio station. The arrogance of this guy was astounding. The superiority of Beane’s methods were spoken so matter-of-factly, while the rest of baseball front offices were, according to Lewis, still bumbling in the dark ages.

Man, I love winning! You know? It's like better than losing!

by SteveP on Jun 1, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions  

I like Dave Pinto's take on this

over at Baseball Musings:

So what do the Athletics do now? One of the premises to success was that winning would bring in more fans, the team would make more money, and they’d be able to use that extra revenue to keep improving the team. That last step failed to happen, possibly because the A’s were so locked into getting value for their money that they missed the fact that the players they could get below market weren’t very good. Rather than look for inefficiencies that no longer existed, the A’s needed to over spend on two or three good players so they would have a solid core.

At one time they were the team of players no one else wanted because others failed to see the value. Now they’re the team of players no one else wants because everyone else values them correctly. As much it pains me to say it, maybe the A’s need a new GM who can get them out of the value rut.

We all talk about the “value” of a player in terms of contracts and trades. I’m not sure I agree with Pinto 100%. The A’s have gone to the well perhaps too many times trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I also think this was a factor in some of Jon Daniels’ early decision making process, and maybe still is. But you simply cannot build a playoff team without taking some of these “value” risks and having them pay off.

Every winning team has a player or two that either overachieves or has a comeback year when everyone else thought he was done (Andruw Jones?). Winning happens with good player development and acquisition mixed with a little luck. Rely on the luck too much and it runs out sooner or later. That seems to have happened with the A’s this year. I agree that the rest of the league has more than caught up with the A’s in valuation of talent, but I also think that Beane is a smart risk taker who just had his luck run out this year.

You try to increase your odds of success with great player development and acquisition and then roll the dice.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jun 1, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions  

That quote better says what I was trying to say

Though I think the A’s have spent money on players to lock them up – they just picked the wrong ones (Eric Chavez, Bobby Crosby).

I like the value player analogy to say value stocks in the value/growth stock spectrum. You can do pretty well investing in only value stocks – you should get some solid, low risk returns going forward. The problem is you rarely will see your portfolio explode and make you rich. Building a portfolio around only growth stocks gives you an opportunity to get crazy rich, but also to lose all your money. Teams like San Fran and San Diego are the equivalent of value investors, and do well if their division is having a down year, but rarely excel. A team like Tampa is your pure growth strategy with lots of success, but they had ten years of growth failure before hand.

Often the ideal investment strategy is a mix – lots of value to give you stability with a few growth stocks to give you some upside. I think Oakland & Beane excelled at this early on, supporting growth guys like Zito/Mulder/Hudson/Tejada/Giambi with low cost value acquisitions. But the “magic” that was touted in Moneyball was the value side only, and they moved too far in that direction. For example, I don’t think you should draft for value (I think this is the biggest fallacy of Moneyball) – the draft is the one time when growth pieces are not overpriced.

I like that the Rangers are adopting what the early Beane strategy was – build from within yet buttress your team with value guys (Jones, Byrd, Vizquel, even Cruz to an extent)

I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.

by JBImaknee on Jun 1, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

chavez

no one could have seen him having these injuries — look up his stats here — even though he has not had a year in the last few of over 108 OPS+, he is still a career 116 OPS+ guy

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying it was a bad decision

But that obviously didn’t work out for them in hindsight. He gets paid a lot of money on a team that doesn’t have a lot of money to spend

I have an irrational hatred of Chris Davis because his Ks are way too ugly and irrational liking of Matt Harrison because he's a lefty - deal with it.

by JBImaknee on Jun 1, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

fair enough

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

billy beane

is quickly becoming overrated.

"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller

by Longhorn on Jun 1, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions  

or

is he so OVERrated he has become UNDERrated?

kind of like the opposite of michael young (so underrated hes overrated)

the return he got for harden was, underwhelming, to say the least

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

and the hudson trade

also, his drafts have been pretty meh…

"if my kid said 'uhh' that much, i would say, Hey! ... stop saying 'uhh' that much..." - dennis miller

by Longhorn on Jun 1, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think its exactly like what happened with Young in recent years

People were calling that Harden trade a stroke of genius from day one when it was a very underwhelming return on an ace quality pitcher. Then this offseason, you again had people claiming Beane was genius for the Holliday trade and how they were contenders to win the AL West because of their genius pick-ups like Cabrera and Giambi. I remember reading something from ESPN or Yahoo that even said the A’s would have the best lineup in the AL West.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jun 1, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

x
People were calling that Harden trade a stroke of genius from day one

I think it was the exact opposite — people said the return sucked, unless Beane was convinced Harden’s arm would fall off at any moment.

by Adam J. Morris on Jun 1, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't unanimous praise

I’d say it was probably more 50/50 with people saying it was smart to sell high on Harden and then Gallagher had a few decent starts and it went more 75/25 in people saying, “See, Beane knows his pitchers.”

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jun 1, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I enjoy Lewis’ writing and consider him one of America’s greatest living writers. But yeah, the guy has an ego and he tends to skim over nuance occasionally to the detriment of his writing. Liar’s Poker is still his best work FWIW and would make a much movie then Moneyball partly because it’s auto-biographical and because it is much more relevant to today.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jun 1, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe the best way to describe Lewis, is that he’s the Kanye West of literature.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jun 1, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

She say she are the manager.

by rockin_rangers on Jun 1, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ha ha.

That’s pretty good, actually.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Chris Davis will be fine. Relax.

by thedirkatron on Jun 2, 2009 4:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll see your Lewis and raise you a Charlie LeDuff..

He’s got my vote for greatest living writer, and he’s a pretty good self-promoter as well.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jun 2, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

So JD is sabermetric friendly yet still sat there like a fern

in an office while his manager gave Sammy Sosa 315 plate appearances v. Rh pitchers although his OPS was below .700 and oh, by the way was usually hitting 4th or 5th in the line-up.

So pissed off at his manager for doing this that he gave him an extension.

Sabermetric friendly, my ass.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jun 1, 2009 1:23 PM CDT reply actions  

how do you not know that the team prez before nolan

wasnt a ron washing fanboi and passed that judgement down to JD?

since you seem to think JD doesnt know jack or control jack (but now nolan does?) does that thought also carry over to the guy he replaceD?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
Scout to KG: On Sandoval: "Man, that fat [expletive]-er can hit."

by knockoutking on Jun 1, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Michael Lewis

he’s a damn good writer, but something doesn’t add up here.

Is he really that dense? Good grief … I feel sorry for him honestly.

¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!

I came here to split hairs. And you?

by inactive lsb user on Jun 2, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Texas Rangers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Hong_kong_small
OT: UEFA Euro 2012 Thread
Small
Ranger Rowdy Time!
Bc0nc_small
Minors Thread: Mid-Late May

Recent FanPosts

Macho_man_randy_savage_small
Sunday OT
Small
Loking for Batters' Eye Club 7/24 or 25
Small
Texas Rangers: 2012 Community Mock Draft Picks
Macho_man_randy_savage_small
Saturday OT
White_blackpool_icon_small
Draft Discussion
Small
MOD#6 - Rangers (2nd Round - 93rd Pick)
Andy_small
Afternoon OT Thread
Macho_man_randy_savage_small
5/25 OT 1
Neftali_old_timey_small
5/24/2012 OT 2
Camera_small
5/24 OT #1

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Manager

Th_buckykatt_small Adam J. Morris

Editor

477845_small ghostofErikThompson

Author

Matchstick_small Brad