Time for a lineup change?

by JackDublin on Jun 12, 2009 9:37 AM CDT Comment 56 comments

I was thinking the other day, that it just might be time to change the lineup a bit. I used to hate seeing Buck shuffle the lineup day in and day out, as I was screaming for some sort of consistency. But, now I'm thinking we could use a little test drive. How about this?

Andrus

Young

Kinsler

Cruz

Jones (or Blalock)

Murphy (or Boggs)

Byrd

Salty

Davis

This biggest move, obviously here, is that Andrus would bat leadoff, and Kinsler would get an opportunity to see more fastballs sandwiched between Young and Cruz. Thus, likely increasing the probability that Cruz would be able to hit with more runners in scoring position. Lately, I don't like the way Byrd is swinging at the 1st pitch, so I think he should move down. Salty and Davis can switch between the too last spots for their horrible OBP.

What do you think?

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I don't really think you want the two OBP black holes hitting 8th and 9th, where they'll be right in front of the top of the order mid-game.

If you can't watch Holland and see that he's going to be awesome, you probably shouldn’t be watching baseball. - Section 339

Hello Win Column

by lonestarJon on Jun 12, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think thats exactly where you want them

in the part of the order that gets the least amount of PAs, and isolated from the more productive parts of the lineup.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

Probably wouldn't hurt.. or help

As much as I like speculating about lineups (and I do it quite a bit), I think its pretty established it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference.

I don’t think theres much reason to think kinsler would actually get better pitches to hit between young/cruz as compared to before them. And if so than young is getting better pitches to hit between kins/cruz and would now get worse pitches or whatever and decrease his production.

But whatever, the lineup is down and if theres even a remote chance it could spark something (maybe just in the players heads…) it couldn’t hurt.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jun 12, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I support it

even if it’s just a short term shake up. What we are rolling out there obviously isn’t working, Kins just looks completely lost out there. I love the 1st inning shallow pop to the leftfielder/shortstop.

I thought it be all warm and shitty, but it just tasted like normal beer. It was still cold.

by RA Dickey on Jun 12, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I like the look of that.

‘cept i hope it’s more Blalock and less Jones. AJ is stinkin it up. Check it out Wash.

by jcAustin on Jun 12, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I assume it was

Jones against lefties. Blalock is hitting .200/.216/.340 against lefties this year.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would bet that

over the last few weeks AJ hasn’t been doing much better. No matter if it is vs LHP or RHP. It is interesting that 2 years ago LSB was pretty much against Sideshow Sammy at this point in the season. Why does AJ get a free pass?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY

by RangerMad on Jun 12, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he looked good early

but i think he now showing the real Andruw.

by jcAustin on Jun 12, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the real Andrew

could be, but it could also be that he is a notoriously streaky 850 OPS hitter who is in a lull and will then get retarded hot and go through these waxes and wanes multiple times a year. Because his entire 13 year career he has done that.

by bushe on Jun 12, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

did you see his 2008 stats?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY

by RangerMad on Jun 12, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinsler/Salty

Since last year’s all-star break Salty has a higher BA .268 to .263 and high OBP .332 to .330.
Even Blalock is hitting .264 to Kinsler’s .263 in that span.

If Kinsler wants to continue to swing for the fences every time maybe he should bat 3rd (or 6th, or 7th).

They need a leadoff hitter who can get on base.

I vote for Byrd to lead off. Davis ninth. Mix and match everything in between.

I always wondered why you wouldn’t have a high strike out, high power, low average guy batting ninth. He would either clean the bases, kill the rally, or end the inning leaving the leadoff hitting up next.

by Evil Monkey on Jun 12, 2009 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

uh

byrd to lead off? dude never walks

by kumizi on Jun 12, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Show me a Ranger who does

Jones?

by Evil Monkey on Jun 12, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jones walks

but his average has been in the tank the last month or so.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrd leading off is a atrocious idea

no OBP, is the most free swinger this season

by erikj07 on Jun 12, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Byrds OBP in the last year is

higher than anyone one on the team . . . look it up instead of blowing off what you don’t know.

by Evil Monkey on Jun 13, 2009 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh .374

in over 500 AB’s

by Evil Monkey on Jun 13, 2009 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

murphy

go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com

by studcrackers on Jun 12, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+ 1

"You're going to love my nuts"

Vince from slap chop

by BigGuns on Jun 12, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinsler

would be nice if he didn’t try to yank a home run every at bat. lets hope he doesn’t get hank blalock disease.

by kumizi on Jun 12, 2009 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he already has it

Let’s hope it’s not terminal

Definiton of insanity-doing the same thing and expecting different results
"Introducing your 2009 Texas Rangers-Built for Insanity!"

by randyd on Jun 12, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's got it so bad we may have to rename it

by phatjeremy on Jun 12, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here you go...

Kinsler
Andrus
Blalock
Cruz
Young
Murphy
Byrd
Salty
Davis

That would of course be against RHP… against LHP…

Kinsler
Andrus
Young
Cruz
Jones
Byrd
Murphy
Salty
Davis

I don’t think a major overhaul is in order, just take a more consistent bat from the bottom (yes Worsh, I know he is a rookie) and move him towards the top as to get a more consistent on base presence. I think against LHP, you could even flip Young and Byrd, because (ideally) you would have Kinsler or Andrus on second in time for Young to come up and push them in with a single. Salty and Davis are pretty interchangible at the bottom of the order. When Hamilton comes back, slip him in at 5 so that he doesn’t feel the pressure to swing for the fences every time up since that has been his propensity this season.

Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Jun 12, 2009 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, thats the thing

Wash has rookie mode all over Andrus. I think he is ready, and it can’t hurt too bad.

by JackDublin on Jun 12, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Further...

I’m hinging on the belief that some of Davis’ mental issues this year are based on the fact that he’s always been “The Man” in whichever lineup he’s ever been a part of and he’s struggling to deal with Worsh’s idea that he has got to bat 7th/8th until Byrd is gone. Almost like a reverse-comfort level situation.

The L/R/L/R alternation has got to be given less thought as well. Ideally, yeah, good thoughts for strategizing opposing bullpen usage towards the end of the game, but realistically, MLB hitters have got to hit MLB pitching. Bar None. If you have a situation where Murphy can’t hit LHP particularly well, T.S. Bat him at the bottom of the lineup when you HAVE to play him.

Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Jun 12, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

my guess is

batting order has zero to do with CDs problem. He was in the bottom of the order last year and had no problems.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that's truly a reach by hc.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jun 12, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree

it has to do with him swinging at all kinds of ridiculous pitches as such that is all he sees.

by bushe on Jun 12, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone over at Inside Corner suggested

Murphy lead off. He sees lots of pitches. Isn’t afraid of a walk and is on fire lately. I’m not saying he’s a permanent solution but this combo may not be bad.

Murphy
Young
Kinsler
Cruz
Blalock
Byrd
Salty
Davis
Andrus

by Hull Fan on Jun 12, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn't batting Ian third

make him want to swing for the fences more than he does now?

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY

by RangerMad on Jun 12, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is that possible?

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jun 12, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't think about that one

good idea……I can’t believe the guy was walking regularly through his 0-21 streak.

by JackDublin on Jun 12, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Murphy would be

a much better leadoff man than Kins, Byrd, or Andrus. He has been patient, walked, and now seems to be hitting well. Of all the lineups listed, that one makes the most sense to me. My question to you is, lets say they roll w/ that lineup till Hamilton is back, where would you slot him? I’d bench Byrd/Blalock most nights, and probably bat him 4th, moving Cruz to 5th and so forth. Or move kins to 5 if he didn’t regain his hitting and Cruz continue and stick Ham back at 3rd.

by erikj07 on Jun 12, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

concur, it's time to move DaMurph up in the order

he’s starting to get locked in.

You know the same locked in from the past when he sprays doubles all over the yard, except with a lot better eye and patience this year and a OBP to be proud of.

"You're going to love my nuts"

Vince from slap chop

by BigGuns on Jun 12, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The real Murphy

Quote from Jamey’s story this morning talks about the 5-step plan.

“90 percent of hitters reach their career norms after amassing 750 at-bats in the big leagues”

Murphy is currently at 662 career AB’s and has a 12.2% walk rate in his last 200 PA’s (.355 OBP)

Maybe this is the real Murphy

by Evil Monkey on Jun 12, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well then the real Murphy is

.262/.295/ 384 career versus lefties
.160/.214/.200 this year versus lefties

Hopefully they keep platooning him.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

im fine with a platoon

but really wouldnt mind him leading off vs. righties

go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com

by studcrackers on Jun 12, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Hamilton comes back you bat him third

with Cruz and Ian following.

Murphy
Young
Hamilton
Cruz
Kinsler
Blalock
Salty
Davis
Andrus

by Hull Fan on Jun 12, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe it's time for a new hitting coach?

Definiton of insanity-doing the same thing and expecting different results
"Introducing your 2009 Texas Rangers-Built for Insanity!"

by randyd on Jun 12, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

How Dare You!!!

The Great Jaramillo has heard you… I feel sorry for you.

</> Sarcasm </>

Truly… I respect some of his reclamation projects, but I wonder if there isn’t something inherent (sp?) in his message that screams “Homeruns conquer all!!!”

Rivalries aside, RIP Nick Adenhart 04/09/2009.

"if daniels was fired today, he would almost be sure to get another shot somewhere else as a GM

i dont know if you can say the same thing abotu RW" - knockoutking

by hillcrest on Jun 12, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do to0

I have his dvd, and has used it to help teach my sons. But swing coach and hitting instructor are sometimes two different things. Look at Tor and Gaston-they say he doesn’t speak to them about mechanics, but mental approach and finding ways to combat each pitcher.

Definiton of insanity-doing the same thing and expecting different results
"Introducing your 2009 Texas Rangers-Built for Insanity!"

by randyd on Jun 12, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dangit

I’ve been looking for 10 minutes but I can’t find it.

A while back there was a tool/program in which you put a player’s BA, OBP and SLG into it and it would compute the ideal lineup. Now I can’t find it. Anyone know where that is?

Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.

by WyoRanger on Jun 12, 2009 2:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

found it

here

"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16

by tricer on Jun 12, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'd be interested in the results

if you actually plug all that in

by erikj07 on Jun 12, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

best lineups according to this tool - using this season's stats

1. Murphy
2. Kinsler
3. Byrd
4. Cruz
5. Young
6. Blalock
7. Davis
8. Salty
9. Andrus

equally effective, at 5.266 runs per game would be:

1. Young
2. Cruz
3. Andrus
4. Blalock
5. Kinsler
6. Davis
7. Byrd
8. Salty
9. Murphy

Link here.

"He's old school in that he give up his groin like that. It hurt me when he do that" -- Worsh on Chris Davis' stretch at first base to end the game vs. the Angels on 5/16

by tricer on Jun 12, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

weird

Hide Davis behind productive hitters I guess? Cruz in the 2 is just all kinds of odd. Not to mention that it can’t decide if Murph should lead off or hit out of the pitchers spot and Andrus should be 3 or 9.

by bushe on Jun 12, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not surprising

i remember when this was done at the beginning of the season and the top lineups had Hamilton at the 2 hole and many with Young at the 9 hole too. Really crazy results, too bad we’ll never actually see them in effect for a small sample just to see.

by erikj07 on Jun 12, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lineup tool

I’ve used it before, and I remember that it suggests that you want your worst hitter batting eighth, as the #9 guy almost acts like a second leadoff man, and the #3 spot generally goes to the hitter who’s kind of a “leftover” once all the other spots are filled.

The first Ranger lineup it generated above actually makes a fair bit of sense, though I don’t like that second one at all.

You get some unusual results from the tool sometimes- I have a Diamondbacks team on MLB: The Show, and when running that team through the lineup tool, it usually suggests I use Conor Jackson as my leadoff man or cleanup hitter, and my pitcher in the #8 spot.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jun 12, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never bought

the “second leadoff man” concept.

It would seem to waste a high OBP player in the position with least plate appearances.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PAs per Batting position,

this is based on last years Rangers, but the relative amounts should be fairly close year to year.

1st 791
2nd 776
3rd 759
4th 735
5th 725
6th 620
7th 606
8th 586
9th 567

So batting a guy 9th, who has high enough OBP to bat 1 or 2 costs you 200 or so PAs from a productive hitter. You might as well give the lowest PAs to your most frequent out makers.

"He (Padilla) shouldve gone back to Venezuela and watched on his Direct TV waiting to find out who his new team would be!!. ." - crops.mlblogs.com

by DJCahill on Jun 12, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs