On Sherrington preaching patience for the Rangers
Kevin Sherrington has a column up today, saying that the Rangers came into the season planning on building towards 2010, and that the team needs to continue to focus on 2010, rather than sacrificing the long-term for short-term gains this year.
Whether or not you agree with Sherrington, the reality is that the Rangers' realistic options for making a move for the short-term right now are limited. Tom Hicks isn't going to add payroll, so unless someone takes Vicente Padilla or Hank Blalock off your hands, you aren't going to be able to get someone expensive without the team dealing the player paying the contract.
And if the team giving up the player is also paying that player's contract, you are going to have to kick in a quality prospect on top of what you're already giving up as part of the deal...and do you really want to put Blake Beavan or Wilfredo Boscan in a deal that is probably already costing you a Kasey Kiker or a Jose Vallejo or a Engel Beltre (or a couple of those guys) so that you don't have to pay a few million for the rest of the year?
The idea that there's a market out there for Blalock, meanwhile, continues to circulate, but think about it...if a team is willing to take Blalock off the Rangers' hands, doesn't it seem likely that that same team would just as soon go pursue whoever the hitter is the Rangers would be adding to replace Blalock in the first place? If the Rangers want to replace Blalock with, say, Nick Johnson, and want to foist Blalock on, for example, the Giants, wouldn't the Giants just cut out the middle man and get Johnson themselves?
The Rangers are also, of course, waiting for the imminent return of Josh Hamilton, who may go back to center field, or may not...and if the team decides they have to limit Hamilton's exposure to the field, and play him more at DH, then the available options for bringing someone on board to help the offense are even more limited. Folks want to bring in a first baseman to replace Chris Davis, but the number of first basemen out there who would represent a significant upgrade over what Davis would be expected to do over the rest of the season, and who would be affordable, and who wouldn't cost a mint in prospects, appears to be slight.
With the rotation, meanwhile, if you aren't going to get a Roy Halladay-type horse, there doesn't seem much point in making a move. Is it really worth giving up prospects to add Jon Garland to the mix, for the purpose of bumping Derek Holland to the pen?
So the Rangers seem likely to do what Sherrington is advocating, and while they'll be kicking the tires, I don't see a major move coming down the pipe. And that's not necessarily because they don't want to make a move for the short-term...it is because the financial situation of the team, and the way the roster is currently constructed, is such that the number of moves available out there right now that really make sense for the team just isn't that great.
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Comments
No trades
This is fine with me. It is pretty boring but it is not a bad thing to keep all the prospects in the system and let the minor league depth play out. It looks like the trade market will be pretty poor anyway, so best to ride it out. And, not to bring up a cliche,but getting FF, Josh, BMac (sort of) et al back will be like making several trades.
by pblack on Jun 23, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
In fact, I like the fact that our solutions are always from within. I get way more uncomfortable when JD makes a BIG trade.
by 3Bagger on Jun 23, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brought this up the other day
Someone mentioned trading Blalock to the Red Sox and my response was why do they need/want him?
Blalock has little if any tradeable value. I can’t think of an AL team that needs a DH nor can I think of any team that needs a firstbaseman of his caliber and contract.
The Rangers are what they are. If the offense pulls out of its funk things will be fun. Otherwise they’ll just be interesting. And I’m cool with that.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
by WyoRanger on Jun 23, 2009 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been arguing that
since before the Rangers exercised his option. A lot of folks thought you could exercise and flip him. I just can’t see it. He simply is too limited of a player. Platoon DHs in general aren’t highly sought.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of this trade talk reminds me of
This South Park clip
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153618
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Jun 23, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
on the trade front
the best the Rangers could hope for to bring in impact bat is a contract for contract swap.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The urge to "do something"
is very, very strong, but often misguided. The offense has slumped long enough that the urge is well nigh overwhelming.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If no big trades go down, then we have to listen to Josey Donuts bitch about us not having a GM that can make the major league team better
The fact that anyone we’d likely be able to get wouldn’t really make the team better doesn’t really matter.
by Inkara1 on Jun 23, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hang on
We are currently trotting out a sub replacement level player at 1b. It isn’t difficult to upgrade from that.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
even an a AAAA 1B would likely be an upgrade. Any replacement level 1B would be a plus.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you assume...
…he is likely to perform the rest of the season the way he has thusfar.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any reason to think he won't?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
There is his performance in 2007 and 2008.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you would take that performance over
what Blalock has done in the major leagues?
Donuts sitting there like a potted plant while Crush drowns is amongst his finest work.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jun 23, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again...
We have the Davis/Blalock False Dichotomy.
Blalock isn’t getting splinters in his butt riding the pine. He starts against just about every RHP.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock has started 5 games in the last 14 days.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jun 23, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened with Blalock
is that thru May 22 he had a craptastic obp of .270 but then started to get hot and in early June his obp went up to .301 – then Wash started putting him on the bench (while inexplicably continuing to play Crush)..
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe it's that
his OBP went up partly because he’s being used against the right pitchers and not being overexposed. Davis needs to be sent down, but not because of any great things Blalock is doing or because Blalock is being mishandled.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interleague play will do that with 1B/DH
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jun 23, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see any reason
to think he will turn it around if he hasn’t turned it around in 3 months, er, I mean 2 months and 23 days.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Do you think he’s not going to turn it around in 2009, but will at some point in the future, or do you think that this is what Davis is, and won’t turn it around in the future, either?
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't speak for Dan
But I think that continuing to run him out there everyday is going to continue to give similar results. I haven’t seen any indication of progress. He needs to be sent to the minors to try and get things worked out because what they are doing with him right now is clearly not good for the player or the team.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason you haven't seen any indication of progress
is that there aren’t any. He has been going backwards month to month, and he sucked in April.
CD OPS by month
Apr 701
May 680
Jun 567
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At what point this season do you decide he needs to go down?
If he keeps going this way, is the All Star Break good enough for you? August 1st? Minor leagues end at the end of August, so if he needs more time, it probably has to be then
Also, I don’t think it is a question of whether Davis will never turn it around in the future, but actually whether Davis needs more time in the minor leagues.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on how you see the season
Is this a serious playoff/world series run? If it is then he probably needs to go down now as you can probably get someones AAAA 1b to out produce Davis as he currently is for very little.
If its still more about next year I think you have to let him try and work it out up here, as long as you don’t think this is crushing his mindset.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Jun 23, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"as you don’t think this is crushing his mindset."
At some point you have to start worrying about that, don’t you?
How many players have rebounded from a full season batting .200/.250/.400 to have productive major league careers? 23 years old or not, that is a hard thing to recover from psychologically (especially if you buy that this slump is in his head)
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when you have a better option
I don’t see any right now
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't need to have a better option
If the reason for sending him down is to help him get his confidence back, then you don’t need a better option to replace him. It would be NICE to have a better option, but its about getting him straightened out, and not about improving the MLB club.
Now, if you are more concerned with improving the MLB club than about the long term career of Davis, then you keep him up until something better is available, even if it means crushing his spirit (which seems pretty crushed already).
by NorCalRangersFan on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his spirit at the plate is different than his countenance alltogether
watch him in the field…or in the dugout…his confidence doesn’t show as crushed when he’s not walking away from the plate with a K
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
He looks like he’s enjoying playing the field. Haven’t really been watching him in the dugout.
He sometimes looks like he’s walking to the gallows on the way to the plate, though. Of course that is all my perception and I am seeing what I expect to see.
by NorCalRangersFan on Jun 23, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blalock is probably a better option in the shortterm.
But, if you send CD down, you have to be prepared to play without him for the remainder of the season. That is why I think he needs to go sooner rather than later. Doing it now allows Blalock to play fulltime in order to get his bat going. If it doesn’t it still allows JD time to work on some trades. If Blalock, trade and CD bat rehab doesn’t work out, you then have to choose between Smoak and Huffman.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Hank's defense vs. Chris' defense mitigatible?
Can we live with the dropoff?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oddly enough
the UZR/150 numbers say Hank’s an upgrade. I suspect its just small sample noise though.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
-16.9 UZR/150
last year in 34 games at 1B. Ouch!
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year
he is 6.9 in 7 games. Both those samples are really too small though. Most likely he is somewhere between those 2 numbers.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for s short time
Yes.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
if we was sent to the minors, and had a different hitting coach work with him, he’d be more likely to show improvement. One of the ones that successfully worked with him in the past.
I do think he will eventually be better than what he is. From an offensive standpoint, I can eventually see him being Rob Deer with less walks or Pete Incaviglia with a little more power.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since the last time I checked
His plate discipline has regressed slightly from the first month-and-half of the season, and contact rate improved. Though all of the contact rate improvements come from pitches inside the strike zone, which is to be expected, but his contact rate for pitches out of the strike zone also got worse. Compared to 2008, his plate discipline is still slightly better, but contact rates are far worse.
At this point, he is stuck in neutral and doesn’t seem to be going in either direction.
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
if a trade goes down, it will either work well for the team, and then it was Ryan’s idea, or it won’t and it was Daniels’ fault.
I’m with Adam though, and I was in this mindset over the offseason too. If you can’t acquire a pitcher at the top of the rotation, then don’t bother. We don’t need more 4th starters.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean...
….a TORP guy for at least 1.5 years, right? Then again, who is out there who’s contract is up this year? …that’s not injured.
by FuturePants on Jun 23, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
much agreeable
if you can get an impact reliever, that’s the way to go.
if you can get an impact starter or bat, without giving up much (doubtful), pull the trigger.
Otherwise, stand pat.
But what of a Frank Thomas or Barry Bonds?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the finances are that tight
and it appears that they are, shouldn’t we be worried about the Rangers ability to sign Purke and Scheppers? And make a splash with international FAs?
Would Hicks see that a few million in added payroll this season could put the team in a pennant race that would likely boost revenues immediately? If your answer to that is that he just doesn’t have the money to spend period, then I’m afraid that we might not get both of our top picks signed.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its tough to see JD picking Purke and Scheppers without being confident that Hicks would give him the money to sign those guys
At the time of the draft, Hicks wasn’t in any worse or better financial shape than he was a couple of months ago.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jun 23, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless of course you believe like I kinda do
that Purke was the “maybe he signs” pick, and if not, we save that money and have an extra 15 pick next year, and Scheppers CAN be just as good as Purke at a much more reasonable price
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UnlessHicks' financial situation has dramatically changed since the draft
I would not be too concerned, particularly for Purke. Keep in mind that at the time they made the Purke pick, they don’t know for sure that Scheppers would be there in the suppy. One would expect that the team has budgeted enough money to sign at least their first round pick. I am sure they knew Purke’s contract demands, so if they did not have money for Purke, I imagine they would have picked someone they felt was signable. The Scheppers pick may stretch their budget a bit, but Scheppers doesn’t have great leverage, so he might consider signing for a lower amount than he wanted.
Of course, the alternative theory is that Hicks didn’t have money to sign any first round picks even at slot money, so they picked Purke and Scheppers just to prevent others from picking them, and hopes financial situation improve next year to use the Purkes comp. I am not sure if this holds any water.
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Opinion
They had a set budget already down for the draft that is just inherently there so that money is already gone…so to speak
by Horns130 on Jun 23, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a great idea, too
budgeting…who ever thought a crude, savvy business man put together a budget at the beginning of the year?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't know if you have ever had financial problems
budgets don’t mean much if the money that you had expected to be available isn’t.
I laid out a budget for this year that included a nice summer vacation. Things haven’t gone as expected so that trip is now scrapped. That’s the way budgets go sometimes.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trust me I've had financial problems
DWI’s are no fun…but I’ve been fortunate enough to have already prepared for something like that, and wasn’t in the hole for too long.
if they had earmarked a certain amount for the draft, and that money was still around, “untouchable” in any circumstances, then I don’t see why they wouldn’t still have that money available, especially if Hicks knows he’s got to get best offer to get out of this mess.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any AAA/AAAA sluggers who could be acquired cheap?
In the vein of Jake Fox perhaps, who was recently called up by the Cubs?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jun 23, 2009 12:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
The problem I see is simple. We probably need to make 3 trades to be a legit contender this year.
We probably need two bats and a top of the rotation starting pitcher. The dead minimum is one bat and a top of the rotation starter.
The problem we have right now is that we have 3 legitimate hitters, one fringy hitter, and a bunch of people who are bench level players right now. The fringy type might go up by one depending on how you count Salty’s bat at the moment. The Blalock/Jones thing isn’t really working out that well, outside of Andruw’s limited exposure 1st month. And right now our outfield is Cruz and which ever 4th OF type we put in the starting lineup that day.
The cost just isn’t going to be worth the attempt this year. If we make a trade we have to make one that will not just be this year. no rental players, it has to be an added core piece.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Jun 23, 2009 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I don’t think we need two bats and a TORP starter to be a legit contender.
I think we are a legit contender right now.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People are just assuming
that being in first place is a total mirage. Many years of Rangers’ fandom I guess convinces people that all must soon come crashing down around our heads, but the team is in first place right now, and the other three teams in the division have at least as many problems as the Rangers.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't assuming that it is a mirage
they’ve been watching a team whose play through June is reminiscent of a 100 loss team. The thing is, they could go 20-10 in July and once again have a 5 game lead on the division. Or they could continue as they have been and be 10 games out by the trade deadline.
The team is very young and built around slugging, which means they’re going to be streaky and have great months like May and awful months like June.
The interesting thing about this type of construction is that they could back into the playoffs and then “get hot” and do very well, like the Rockies a few years ago. Or they can finish 75-87.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and to follow that point
I agree that I doubt any one player will make a big difference. A Nick Johnson will add some stability to the offense, and a power bullpen arm will decrease the variability in the bullpen, but this team could very easily finish below 500 or above 90 wins with or without that change.
I have been advocating a Nick Johnson move if the price is right, something which is not clear. This early in the year you can sometimes get a discount because other teams don’t have a plan, or things may cost more since more teams still feel competitive. I don’t think you can dismiss the possibility out of hand; but I also am not trading anything more than a Kiker or Vallejo for him.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say solid playoff contenders
But I just don’t see us as a serious threat to advance past round 1. We have the defense but have only one starter that I wouldn’t cringe a little bit starting in a playoff series, maybe 2 with Feldman. I just think we have major holes in our offense, ones that adding back Hamilton isn’t going to fix. I think we need an OBP bat for the top of the order and right now need a solid hitter for either 1b or DH.
I also think that if the Angels start getting healthy then we could be in serious problems with the playoffs also. Though right now that doesn’t seem that likely with Santana just going back on the DL. I know its been said before about other streches, but we really have to do well over then next 2 weeks or we will likely be far enough out to make playoff talk seem a bit silly. We need to probably go 4-2 against the DBacks and Padres and then at least split the two series with the halos, and thats not mentioning the 3 game set with the Rays.
What do voluntary mean?
by JKolar on Jun 23, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Millwood, Holland and Padilla all pitch like they're capable of
in a best-of-5 game series, and FF and Hamilton are healthy and doing well, we can match up with ANYBODY.
It isn’t likely, but it’s possible.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see JD making a signifigant trade....
but it would be to add a major piece to the lineup that will be here for this year and a few years to come.
I don’t see JD renting a high priced player unless he gets a great deal (like Carlos Lee a few years back)
by death of the cool on Jun 23, 2009 12:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
nick johnson
what do u guys think it would take?
kiker and vallejo?
by kumizi on Jun 23, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's nearly enough
by Joey Matschulat on Jun 23, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what is?
for an injury-riddled, past-his-prime 1B that gets on base but doesn’t do enough damage to warrant top prospects, in my opinion?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your crazy
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jun 23, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
Throw in a Poveda/Moreland type or reconfigure the deal to include at least one major league player (Murphy?) and you’re probably cooking. Not saying I’d do that, just that it’s what it might take. I think Johnson will recoup more than some people think he will.
by Joey Matschulat on Jun 23, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand...
why anyone would give up that much for a player who can’t stay on the field.
I think you’re overrating him Joey.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jun 24, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
foist?
Is that really a word? Good one…
by jam0152 on Jun 23, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A look back
I saw my first FanPost here at LSB nearly a year ago is up there in the related FanPosts next to Tom Hicks’ jowls (link). I advocated a patient approach to 2010 then, and I do now. Making a trade that tosses away so much value for a quick fix (which would be a pretty piss poor quick fix, most likely) would hurt the Rangers in the long-term significantly more than it would help us in the short run.
I understand that having tasted first place for so long this season has done nothing to temper the expectations our farm system fills us with, but I don’t see why we should sacrifice the players that create those expectations for a piece of the puzzle that would provide us less moving forward than the names Adam threw out above.
Your uncle molests collies.
by 3k on Jun 23, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Davis
I don’t understand this:
The number of first basemen out there who would represent a significant upgrade over what Davis would be expected to do over the rest of the season, and who would be affordable, and who wouldn’t cost a mint in prospects, appears to be slight.
What do you expect Davis to provide from here until the end of the season? He’s been getting worse across the board as the season has gone on. It seems as though virtually any other first baseman in baseball could out perform what he’s done so far.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jun 23, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't get that either
its not like there are any indications he’s made the slightest progress. His OPS has shown a month to month decline.
Apr 701
May 680
Jun 567
It looks to me like there is a chance that a AAAA, replacement level pickup would probably be a decent upgrade.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you been reading Adam's thoughts on Davis this year?
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it goes the way it usually does
when Adam finally concedes that Chris Davis is useless and is sucking horribly, CD will go on a 57 game hit streak.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That didn't work for Jason Botts.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different
Botts = hitter, not ballplayer. But hitter easy to shut down.
Davis = ballplayer, being shut down as a hitter. Should have bottomed out.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jun 23, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Adam ever concede
that Botts wasn’t a baseball player? I thought he was in the “he still needs more PAs” camp.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Botts is in Japan right now clicking on LSB saying “Please, Adam, please call me a failure!”
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Adam calls him a failure
he may start hitting well enough to come back to the US and become a productive DH.
Last I saw, Bottsu was in the Jap minor leagues because he wasn’t good enough for the big league clubs.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the "Bottsu" version of Botts
is so much cooler than the plane ol’ “Botts” version
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was just a question
I was curious what Adam thought Davis was capable to producing for the rest of the season. I don’t think he’ll always be this bad, and I guess he could turn it around at some point, but my point was that he’s getting worse as the season goes on and as he gets deeper into this funk. It might be time to give him a break at AAA to try and sort some things out.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jun 23, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't know right now
Probably better than what he’s done so far, but then, I’ve been wrong about that so far.
However, if the idea is send him down to AAA for a couple of weeks to get things straightened out, you probably don’t then want to go out and give up something big to get a replacement in here anyway.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 23, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that can be the plan
you’d need to send him down for as long as it takes, even if he is down for the rest of the season. I don’t think there is any way you can plan on it being just a couple of weeks.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
this type of slump will take longer than a couple of weeks. for me, it depends on which coaches Davis works best with either in AA or AAA, and he goes to either one. I might even DH him to let him focus on hitting alone.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jun 23, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I was thinking more along the lines of sending him down for the rest of the season and start over with him next season, unless he absolutely starts raking in AAA and forces your hand. The kind of approach that worked with Nelson Cruz, basically.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jun 23, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
At this point I am willing to try him before we deal a bunch of prospects (yes i know about the 40 and rule 5 concerns)
by death of the cool on Jun 23, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Sure
I think it might be better to role with Blalock (or even call up Huffman) and let Smoak get his work in in AA/AAA
in August or September we can then bring Smoak up if necessary
I also would not be opposed to bringing up Smoak right now though
by Horns130 on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
He’s been hurt. I don’t think it’s a good time to bring him up.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jun 23, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is Moreland's defense?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a plus
but not a big minus at either 1B or RF, the only places he should play.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better than Adam Fox's
at least in RF anyhow. :)
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to defend the decision to keep Chris Davis here from a performance point of view is not feasible
His numbers are awful, and he has yet to show any improvements in either plate discipline or contact ability. That said, why is he struggling so much? We know that he is not seeing the ball well at all and continues to swing at things outside the strike zone and take called 3rd strikes. He also looks overmatched at times – unable to catch up to fastballs in the strike zone. However, these two things are not always separate issues – does he look overmatched because he is not picking up the release of the pitch or is he simply incapable of catching up to a fastball?
I guess when hitter struggle for a prolonged period of time, it’s either something mechanical, something mental, or something that has to do with the ability of the player. If Davis’ problem is mechanical, then it is clearly Rudy’s fault and perhaps spending some time with a different hitting coach may help. If his problem is mental, one expect that he would snap out of it at some point in time – particularly when he gets lucky and has a couple of good games. If his problem is something to do with his abilities, then short term solutions won’t do any good.
I think most of us here believe that his problem is mechanical or mental and he may be able to snap out of it given a stint in the minors, but I always have this unsettling feeling that it may not be the case. When most players struggle at the plate, they try to adopt a more patient approach (like Murphy, and Byrd last year), and Chris Davis has tried to do the same, but it just hasn’t worked for him. He is trying to take more pitches (he has seen more pitches per PA than he had last year), but the walk rate isn’t getting any better. To me, that says he is just unable to tell what the pitch is and where it is supposed to go, even when he is adopting that approach. If this is the case, a short minor league stint won’t do any good.
This is the reason I want to keep him on the team for the remainder of the season. I want to find out exactly what his problem is and whether he is capable to making the adjustment to those problems. Major league pitchers are good at exploiting weaknesses in a hitter (much better than AAA pitchers), and don’t make as many mistake pitches. This means that Davis’ problems will be most obvious, to him, to the opposing team, to Rudy, and to the front office, and any improvements that he may manage to make will be equally obvious. I think he will perform much better if put in AA or AAA, but mostly because the pitchers are not as capable to using his weak points, and he will benefit by getting more mistake pitches to hit. If that’s the case, we may not be able to tell exactly whether he has been making any progress.
I would keep Davis here for the rest of the year, move Smoak up to AAA when he return from injury and after the ASG. Have Davis play winter ball of some kind, and monitor him through spring training. If Smoak looks ready by ST, then there is no problems. Give Davis 2 month in 2010, and if he continues to struggle, banish him to AAA and forget about him until he puts up Cruz/Botts numbers for an entire season. This way, they can either pencil Davis in as a core part of team, or they can forget about him and look at other options. I don’t want to see the Andy Marte situation here, it’ll be a pain for everyone.
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
he is waiting to see the release of the ball to start his swing, which is part of Rudy’s approach (Rudy’s 5 steps Step 1: Seeing The Ball. Step 2: Rhythm, Step 3: Separation, Step 4: Staying “Square”, Step 5: Weight Shift and Transfer).
He appears unable to catch up to the fastball when he waits to see the release. He may be thinking too long after seeing the ball to pull the trigger.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how much stock we can put into that
I don’t know how many players starts swinging before the pitch comes out of the pitcher’s hand, and then adjust their swing in the middle of it. I read somewhere that normally the hitter has enough time for the pitch to travel about 5-10 feet to react to it (i.e. make up his mind whether to swing or not, and what kind of pitch it is). It seems natural to me that one would wait for the release before swinging. If he can’t do that because his swing takes too long, I don’t think he is a major league player.
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
5 -10 feet on a 90 mph fastball is 37 to 75 milliseconds, which apparently is less time than it takes for CD to decide what the pitch is and what to do with it.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that means he is a "special" hitter
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of the problem
is Rudy got Chris thinking, and that normally is a bad thing for a baseball player to do, because it cuts into the time needed to react.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jun 23, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy should go be an professor in an university
since they seem to have the reverse problem there
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
took me second
to recognize that as an excellent line.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking too much
maybe, not too long. Half the lineup looks like they are thinking about how to hit instead of just hitting. Salty was thinking about how to throw at times last year. This year, he’s just trusting his mechanics and throwing, and his throws to second are much better. I see a similar thing going on with Davis at the plate.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jun 23, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't look like he's flat out behind it
it looks like he’s swinging over or under it completely. Is he not keeping his eye on the ball the whole way? Does he lose focus, pull his head out? I don’t know. But it doesn’t look like he’s late on every swing, to me…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know
if the Rangers didn’t have a demigod as their hitting instructor, maybe they when have brought in another hitting instructor to work with him.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jun 23, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice analysis
I agree with you a lot, but obviously differ on your conclusion. Davis’s problem is either mental or mechanical (it probably isn’t just skill, since we know he can do considerably better if things are going right).
By mental we are probably talking about confidence, which I think a stint of just crushing minor league pitching will do wonders for. Yeah, he’ll take a confidence hit by going to AA or AAA. But not K’ing every other AB will certainly help him.
Now, if it is mechanical – a hole in his swing that MLB pitchers are exploiting – then he probably isn’t going to figure that out by staying in the majors if he hasn’t figured it out already. If there is something else more basic mechanically wrong, he’ll go down to AA, he’ll still have problems catching up to fastballs, and maybe some new eyes (i.e., not Rudy) can see what it is.
I guess I don’t see why we should expect or hope more time seeing ML pitchers will break him out of it. The probability he is going to break out of his slump in the next week drops with every passing week.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jun 23, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's just mechanical
I don’t recall him ever having problems hitting fastballs on his way up, and I don’t think you can just lose that all the sudden. However, if you do think it’s mechanical, the sending him to the minors is the natural, and logical solution. Of course, that means I don’t think his problem is just mechanical.
There are not many hitters in baseball who has the combination of poor plate discipline and bad contact rates and is able to maintain success. Soriano is pretty much of the only one. I have doubts that his plate discipline and contact problems are simply because of a mental or mechanical concern. That’s why I want to find out. Of course, this is strictly my opinion – I have nothing to back it up.
by Telegraph on Jun 23, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I think of sending CD down
I think of what it did for Nelson Cruz.
I’m not going to break down K/BB rates for both players, and obviously Nelson was a more experienced pro when he had his big OKC year.
But if Davis is overwhelmed by the repertoire/speed of ML pitching, he should back up to AAA.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jun 23, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we sent Nelson down
without better options in the OF while we WEREN’T contenders. Now, we’re contenders…and there aren’t better options available yet.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom Hicks
![]()
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jun 23, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So Sherrington thinks the Rangers should be patient...
The Rangers currently own a team obp of .318.
Since 2000, these are the teams that finished with an obp below .320 and their final record.
2002 – Tampa 55-107, Baltimore 67-95, Betroit 55-106
2003 – Cleveland 68-94, Detroit 43-119
2005 – Seattle 69-93
2006 – Tampa 61-101
2007 – CWhite Sox 72-90
2008 – Oakland 75-86, Seattle 61-101
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jun 23, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
true...
but i ask, how many of those teams had a firstbaseman willing to wear a thong?
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Jun 23, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
paints a pretty clear picture
don’t it?
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
by tricer on Jun 23, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
.297 .347 .598 .945
.333 .386 .643 1.029
.285 .331 .549 .880
__________________________
.194 .248 .410 .658
by texasraider on Jun 23, 2009 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm starting to think...
that at this point, CD might actually relax if he got sent down. every question he gets is about it. its all the dedicated media wants to focus on. he’d be upset, but i think overall he’d end up being relieved that its happen and he can move forward trying to get his approach back together. i would actually send him down to frisco so that on off days, or days when both clubs are in town, he could get down to arlington and work with rudy. so he doesn’t feel like he’s been dumped completely….
it would be an odd situation with moreland and smoak being there. we’re talking about smoak and CD both being on roster next year, they might as well start figuring out now how thats going to feel…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Jun 23, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Engel Beltre
I say trade him now before his value drops beyond the point of no return. i hate his plate discipline which points to bad pitch recognition.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jun 23, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
everybody said that about Borbon
he’s steadily improved there. He’s more than passable now.
How young is Beltre?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he is 19
He may still be 18 though
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 23, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No reason to give up on an 18 or 19 year old
because he hasn’t developed patience at the plate yet. That’s absurd.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it absurd to trade a guy when he still has alot of value?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jun 23, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what could we get in return?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know
I think he would be part of a package deal, and that depends on the deal. Beltre would be a nice addition right now in many packages that we could throw together. You don’t usually trade 19 yr olds in High-A by themselves.
I’m fine with keeping him, since we have alot of talent in our farm that can supplement our weaknesses, but there are too many guys that have been “RAW” that have never made it because they don’t have the pitch recognition to be successful at the ML level.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jun 23, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Beltre could be one of those guys
The point is, you get as many of these raw talents as you can and hope to hit on 1 or 2 of them.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jun 23, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon has always hit
Borbon may not walk alot but he doesn’t K alot either. and, he has sped through the system after getting drafted out of College.
Beltre has alot of tools — “Raw” tools. I like some of those guys, and will admit that we can still give him time, and we’ll hope he develops those power tools, but his BB/K was 7/1 last year. with 105 Ks and 15 bbs. This year it is 6.3/1 with 63 Ks and 10 BBs. He is going to need alot of work.
I think his value will only drop from here. That is what helps keep some of the good teams good – knowing when to sell high on a player.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Jun 23, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean his K/BB ratio
that threw me off…because it looks to me like he’s improving. and if he keeps improving steadily, I think he’ll be pretty decent by the time he’s ready.
The kid could turn out to be something very special for us. Or he could flop. But there’s no risk here. It’s all pure reward. No reason to trade him unless a specific team with a specific need comes calling and demands he’s a part of a package that we can’t really afford to pass up.
No need to shop him.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jun 23, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre
For me he would only be traded if it was in a package to get a legit superstar player in return. Nick Johnson would not warrant Engel Beltre IMO. His upside is too high.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jun 23, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Staying the course
is a very prudent way to proceed. The Rangers need to be careful not to squander their huge resource in minor league talent.
Having said that, there are two possibilites that are not given their due consideration.
The most important is that waiting for the prospects in 2010 and beyond leaves the Rangers in danger of waiting for players who might not be enough better than the current set to be any more likely to beat the Angels, etc, Examples of this: will our rotation ever be as good as the Angels (or Mariners) again? This year ours is comparable to the rotations that the Angels and Mariners are actually throwing out there.
The other danger in waiting is, of course, that this opportunity to contend does not come around automatically, just because we have good propects we hope develop in the future. Will the other contenders have as many injuries next year and beyond?
I think the Rangers are in the position that they have little choice but to ride it out without trading away top prospects. Also, I think that the LSB nation does not really place enough importance on the previously mentioned factors which would tend to make mgmt consider more strongly about “going for it”.
by mcgee48c on Jun 23, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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