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LSB Community Prospect Project: Mid-Season #11

 

Another very close vote.

After 245 votes, Michael Main has won the right to be called the LSB Community #10 prospect!

The List So Far:

1. 1b, Justin Smoak
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz 
3. LHP, Martin Perez
4. RHP, Tanner Scheppers
5. LHP, Matt Purke 
6. RHP, Wilmer Font
7. (Tie) RHP, Blake Beavan
7. (Tie) CF, Julio Borbon
9. RHP, Tommy Hunter

10. RHP, Michael Main


 

Time to move on to the vote for #11.

The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.

And, as always, please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.

Poll
Who is currently the #11 prospect in the Rangers' system?
LHP, Robbie Ross
47 votes
LHP, Kasey Kiker
109 votes
LHP, Edwin Escobar
0 votes
LHP, Miguel de los Santos
0 votes
LHP, Michael Kirkman
0 votes
RHP, Wilfredo Boscan
16 votes
RHP, Guillermo Moscoso
0 votes
RHP, Omar Poveda
3 votes
RHP, Warner Madrigal
1 votes
RHP, Fabio Castillo
0 votes
RHP, Carlos Pimentel
0 votes
RHP, Eric Hurley
4 votes
RHP, Joe Wieland
8 votes
RHP, Kennil Gomez
1 votes
C, Max Ramirez
33 votes
C, Tomas Telis
1 votes
1b/OF, Mitch Moreland
3 votes
2b, Jose Vallejo
0 votes
SS/2b, Marcus Lemon
0 votes
OF, Engel Beltre
7 votes
OF, Tim Smith
1 votes
OF, Mike Bianucci
0 votes

234 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 169 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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Comments

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Woohoo Main!

Now if we can keep ignoring the boring Kasey Kiker for the much more exciting Robbie Ross, I’ll be happy.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Jul 15, 2009 10:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Errr... the system is hating me today.

I’ll fix the formatting on the list tomorrow.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm sticking with Ross

He K:BB is ridiculous.

Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY

by RangerMad on Jul 15, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Max it is...

In the same boat as Main.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Yep

I kinda want to vote for Ross, Boscan or Wieland here, but based on where I ranked him last year (and the fact that he might be our last hope for a catcher that can hit worth a lick) it wouldn’t really be fair to drop him below those guys if I’m gonna drop Main below them as well.

"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones

"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels

Hello Win Column

by LSJ on Jul 15, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Er

*if I’m not gonna drop Main below them as well.

"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones

"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels

Hello Win Column

by LSJ on Jul 15, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

maxram for me too

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dr. House?

Paging Dr. Gregory House.

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Its never lupus

except for that one time where it was

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

YOU'RE RISKING A PATIENT'S LIFE!!!!!!!!!

I have no objection to man walking on the moon.

by Chad Crudup on Jul 15, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The House Formula

[insert cane joke] Sarcoidosis! [insert racism/misogyny] Encephaloma! [insert epiphanic moment] Cut-throat Bitch!

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jul 15, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D

by rooster on Jul 15, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Max, Max, Max.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

you know im so split

here between Hunter, Ross, Kiker, and MaxRam im going to wait to vote later tonight after reading all of the great debate that will undoubtedly happen

by Michael Cave on Jul 15, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Well fortunately

Hunter has already been voted for and Kiker is boring. So I just narrowed it down to Max vs Robbie.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Jul 15, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

brain fart ha

sick and home from work. guess the fever is getting to me.

by Michael Cave on Jul 15, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Boscan and Wieland

both of them fit right about here for me, just not sure which to take over the other

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions  

went boscan

I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT

by Jayslick on Jul 15, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I ended up doing the same

Im a little surprised wieland doesnt have a single vote.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he's gotten any serious consideration yet

I’m kind of shocked at how he’s been completely ignored so far on these polls.

"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones

"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels

Hello Win Column

by LSJ on Jul 15, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep...

I’ve got Boscan a little ahead of Weiland, but those two are very close imo as well.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jul 15, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

boscan here ahead of Weiland/Kiker

seems kind of ludicrous to me. I mean, he’s not doing anything thats been very impressive this year. While Kiker and Weiland both have more projection

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can understand Kiker instead of Boscan

But Weiland?

And Boscan’s groundball rate and control have been extremely impressive.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Weiland has the same type of pitchability as Weiland

but better stuff and projectability than Boscan… I mean, its nice that he has a good ground ball right and he has good control. But, his stuff just isnt that great and that’s not likely to continue to play so well (his K-Rate in A ball just isnt good at all). Meanwhile, Weiland has all the right indicators + scouting reports that rave about his pitchability and have him increasing his velocity into the plus range… I dont see how its hard to put Weiland ahead of Boscan. Id probably put Ross ahead of him as well.

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Boscan, i mean

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

K rate

Last year Boscan was sexy, this year where did the K’s go?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Real interesting splits by month on Boscan.

When I saw him early this year (and fell a little in love) he was showing pretty good but not great stuff. Given his age (19 all season) I felt he was a guy to really watch. But then an injury wiped out pretty much all of his May and now… “?”

Boscan k/9 by month:
April: 7.64
May: (Injured)
June: 4.88
July: 3.72

Now, the July #’s are extremely SSS (9.2 innings), but, still.

Could it be he’s not right after the injury? The drop in the K rate after the injury is pretty startling and has sent him tumbling down the ranking for me. I had him in 4-7 range after seeing him in April, but with the injury and the falling k-rate + the draft guys he’s fallen quite a bit for me.

I’m still hopeful with Boscan, but I view him a lot more cautiously now.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I hadn’t looked in that detail. It does seem like something is wrong there. His BAA has also skyrocketed the last two months compared to April:
April: .100
June: .289
July .366

SSS, as you say, but perhaps he’s just not all the way back yet.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

placing Max

Tough to know where to place Max. I remain convinced that his bat is legit, but basically losing this whole year and considering that wrist injuries sometimes wreck havoc on a player’s power, plus the fact that he will be 25 years old later this year…just makes it tough to figure where he should fit on a list like this.

I voted Kiker. Probably will go Ross next, then Max after that.

Really unfortunate how this year worked out for him. I have to think that without his injury he would have been mashing in AAA and the Kris Davis and the Mighty Whiffs show would have been cut short with Max getting a great opportunity. As it is, his trade value has plummeted, and his opportunity for big league time here in Texas gets complicated because he’s got a serious injury to recover from and now Smoak will probably be ready for full time duty about the same time Max is.

There's more to the picture than meets the eye.

by tricer on Jul 15, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm pretty sure that's my order too.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jul 15, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kiker

He’s pitching well in the Texas League, which to me is more impressive than Ross dominating the Northwest League at 19. When Kiker was 19, he pitched very well in the Midwest League with 112 K’s in 96 IP and an impressive 2.90 ERA. I could see, potentially, an argument for Ross over the 2007 Kiker, but Kiker is still performing very well two levels higher than he was back then. His K rate has dropped to 8.3 per 9, but his ERA in Frisco is an excellent 2.70, his best ERA at any level.

So…Ross has been impressive, but would you bet on his potential to equal or surpass Kiker when he gets to Frisco? They’re similar pitchers, so it’s not like he projects to be an ace or anything. He very may well continue to improve and dominate in Frisco as well, but the fact that he is so far away is more than enough to balance out that possibility in my opinion.

by naropean on Jul 15, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions  

Agree.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jul 15, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ross isn't 19.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

my mistake

Well since he’s 20 that just swings the scales even more in favor of Kiker.

by naropean on Jul 15, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh, well to be fair he just very recently turned 20.

But I’ve just seen a lot of people recently quoting his age as 19 so I figured I’d throw it out there.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

On board call for the Roboss bandwagon

we are pulling out of the depot any minute now

by Telegraph on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions  

indeed

mad props for that nick, homefry…I hope it sticks.

I’ve been voting for Roboss for a while now. I think he’s special. Just a Ron Washington type of “gut feeling”, I guess.

FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!

by JimCrankshaft on Jul 15, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kiker getting little LSB love... why?

MJH has him ranked #7. His analysis is very insightful.

In my book, Kiker has improved his stock more than any other player in the system this year.

Promote Nam!

by LukeR on Jul 15, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Kiker

I can’t necessarily speak for others, but for myself I just don’t see much ceiling and I’m a ceiling kinda guy. While I really like Kiker I just put more emphasis on the upside guys like boscan.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

but you are voting for Boscan

so, im somewhat confused

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

you dont see ceiling and upside there?

how is that confusing? a guy with a good fastball and control

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Boscan isnt that projectable

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like boscan more than kiker

just dont see how he is a starting MLB pitcher today, tomorrow or next year

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then I guess Matt Harrison isn't a starting pitcher either huh?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

harrison

was a guy who was a top 100 guy

how is kiker = harrison?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go look at their numbers

At AA as 21 year olds

Harrison: 3.39 ERA, 9.1 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 2.6 BB/9, 6.0 K/9
Kiker: 2.70 ERA, 7.3 H/9, 0.4 HR/9, 4.2 BB/9, 8.3 K/9

If you add hits and BB per 9 you get 11.7/9 for Harrison and 11.5/9 for Kiker

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hits and walks should not be totaled up like that

Look at their WHIPs if you want that. There is a big difference between giving up hits and giving up walks when evaluating prospects.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's also a big difference in striking people the mother fuck out.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

do you think kiker > harrison at age 21 at AA?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, probably.

I’ve never been a big Harrison guy.

Kiker’s walk rate bothers me, but there’s a track record of good control with him up until this year so I’ve got hope on that front, and he misses bats which is the difference maker, imo.

Gotta miss them bats, dog.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

your right

but the other difference is that pretty much everyone loved harrison (top 75 guy — want to say in mid to late 60s?) vs kiker will get little to no top 100 support unless he does this well all year, which i have serious doubts he will

im a big fan of #s, but as KG says, gotta look past #s sometimes

and for the record, i am recognizing that i was pretty damn harsh on hurley last year

also fwiw:

kiker at AA
8.3 k/9
4.2 bb/9
1.28 whip

hurley at AA:
7.4 k/9
2.6 bb/9
1.01 whip

id rather have hurley than kiker

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the big difference in how some people view Harrison vs. Kiker at that time...

…is that no one really doubted if Harrison could stay as a starter long term.

I think a lot of people view Kiker as a guy who will end up having to make the transition to the ‘pen, and for some those doubts are a lot more damning than doubts about a guy’s ability to miss bats.

Personally I think Kiker, like I said elsewhere, I think Kiker has just as good a shot to stay in the rotation as guys like Feliz and Font, and even if he does have to move to the ‘pen he’s got a chance to be a difference maker there, either as a Matt Thornton-esque power setup arm or as a closer.

So, yah. I like Kiker quite a bit.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

If we didn't have the SP depth in the minors

Would there be any question if Kiker could be a starter?

I get the feeling people are pidgeonholing him as a reliever based on the amount of starting pitching prospects we have. But nothing about hihs numbers screams to me that he can’t be a starter.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps.

But I think the size thing plays into a lot, as do the reports that his stuff really plays up when he comes out of the ’pen as opposed to over 90-110 pitches over a full start.

Let me pose a completely hypothetical situation to you:

Say that Kiker could move the to the bullpen and be a Matt Thornton type dominator. A 10+ k/9, 2.5 bb/9, 2.5 ERA kind of power arm.

Or…

Leave him in the rotation and have a Gil Meche-type. A 7 k/9, 3.75 bb/9, 4.4 ERA mid-ration horse.

Those are your two choices. Which do you choose? I think most value stats would say Meche is the more valuable player, but I don’t know. I love LAIE’s, but I also super heart shut down arms in the ’pen.

Keep in mind the injury risk and learning curve at the major league level are both less for relievers, but certainly both still exist.

Interested to see what y’all think.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd take the starter

relievers are easier to find and less valuable when you do find them.

Did you see the recent comparison of David Wells and Mariano Rivera? Wells, basically a LAIE overall, was just about as valuable as maybe the greatest closer ever. So, unless you could guarantee that Kiker would be Rivera, you’re almost certainly better off with the LAIE.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I did see that comp of Wells vs. Rivera, though I must say I read it and then respectfully disagreed.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

In other words

I’d take the reliever only if I was pretty sure he’d be freakin’ awesome. Feliz might be a guy like that, but I’m not sure Kiker is.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many mid-rotation horses do we already have?

I think thats where the question comes up. If we already have Feldman, Harrison, BMac, Hurley, etc all as that type of pitcher then maybe Kiker is best served coming out of the pen. Not saying he couldn’t do what those guys can but he also may be better out of the pen than any of those guys.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Conversely, how many high-ceiling types are bubbling up?

KK may not get much of a chance to stick in the roto if a Holland, Feliz, Scheppers, Perez, et al come quick.

That said, I am strongly in his corner.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jul 15, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

"How many mid-rotation horses do we already have?"

Currently we have one that I feel real confident in, Feldman.

Plenty of others with that potential, but until there is a surplus, there is no surplus. Big difference between potential and realized potential.

There's more to the picture than meets the eye.

by tricer on Jul 15, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

don’t count your chickens…

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd take the reliever type for this team's near future at least

Getting 6 cheap years of a shut down reliever probably has more value to this team than a LAIE. I love the thought of having what the Angels have done in their recent history where we guarantee a shutdown 7th-9th.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

yea id love to have that w/ the rangers

even with average pitching, limiting the game to 6 innings is ALWAYS a good thing

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm also pretty confident we'll have that average starting pitching

Lots of talent coming through this rotation over the next couple of years plus a defense that should remain great.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

given that choice

I’d choose starter 10 times out of 10.

But I don’t think we will have that choice with KK because I don’t think he could post those type numbers as a SP.

There's more to the picture than meets the eye.

by tricer on Jul 15, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spurdy Nasty thinks he can stay a starter.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jul 15, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

As do I, but certainly there's some question about it is what I'm saying.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

consider Harrison was supposed to have good command

but he actually doesn’t – I don’t know what to think

by Telegraph on Jul 15, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmm

2.6 bb/9 then

3.3 bb/9 after 26 MLB starts

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

And regarding Hulrey vs. Kiker.

I’d take Hurley at that time over Kiker at this time, too.

Similar enough statistical profile, but better scouting reports and no doubts about whether he could stick as a starter long term if his health held up.

I really think Hurley was hurt very early on in his AAA time and that’s why his stats took a nosedive, but of course I have no way of proving that. I really hope he can come back, but his injury is very scary.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

that may be the case and it would make quite a bit

of sense looking at the stats, and theres already at least 2 rangers pitchers we know who have tried to hide injuries….

im pulling for him as well

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

you misspelled "dog"

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seems to be improving

7BB in his last 28.1 IP

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jul 15, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yah, you'd think that being the group of big timey knee jerkers we are around here that Kiker'd be shooting up the rankings.

Last 28 days: 7.28 k/9, 2.12 bb/9.

From my horribly amateur statistical analysis it seems like he’s sacrificing some of the K-inducing wildness for more better control and it’s working out for him.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats what gets me

Tommy Hunter shoots up to #9 in the rankings mainly due to his recent run in the majors while Kasey has been dominating AA for the last month and is still getting scoffed at

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

And yet, you shoot Max way down in your rankings for his sub par MLB performance (in very limited and sporadic action)

despite a LONG track record of success in MILB.

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I shoot Max down

because of his lack of performance above AA not just his time in the majors

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I shoot shot Max hurley down

because of his lack of performance above AA not just his time in the majors

how did i get super blasted for my hurley views, but this flies?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

preview fail
I shoot shot Max Hurley down

because of his lack of performance above AA not just his time in the majors

how did i get super blasted for my hurley views, but this flies?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have mainly been blasted not for your opinion of Hurley, but for the fact that you seemed to have sworn a Nordic blood Oath against his son's son's sons

It’s like he banged your girlfriend and then youtubed it.

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

you didnt know i have a noric blood oath against him?

:)

that said, the reasoning that a players limited MLB performance can/should have any impact on his ranking as a prospect is turrible reasoning. if that was the case why wasnt TT a top 10 or so prospect?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not following

It reads like you are agreeing w/ me.

What am I missing?

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

i am agreeing with you

i was too tough on hurley

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, I tried shooting you an e-mail.

Is that address right?

It came back as Undeliverable: Fatal Error: Address

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

It has a typo that I never bothered to correct

thomas_brianc@yahoo.com.

I inadvertently left out the h. But you probably caught that, didn’t you? Or maybe you just clicked the link?

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, yah. Heh. Just clicked the link.

I’m on my way out the door but I’ll resend later.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lower K rate, much lower BB rate

Seems to be working for Font, too. Even Feliz over his last few starts. I agree with your amateur take amateurishly.

Hope they find a fix for Namirez.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

hits by pitch

also have slowed recently.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Their WHIPs are practically identical

And for me Id rather give up a walk than a hit. Walks are one base with little to no chance for guys to score. Hits are sometimes multiple bases and lead to runs.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, jeez.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

What?

Of course I would love to never walk anyone but thats not gonna happen. All im saying is sometimes walks aren’t the evil empire some here make them out to be. You can’t simply look at a prospects walk rate and say definitively that he is a bad pitcher. What if hes walking guys in the middle of the order because hes pitching around them? Tell me, if you have a guy on 2nd and 2 outs and the guy up to bat is not going to make an out. Would you rather walk him or let him get a single to score the run?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, jeez.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i actually kind of understand where he's coming from

but over a large sample size, i think this becomes mostly negated… I mean, if we wanna stick to an absolute numerical thing, walks with a guy on 2nd or 2nd and 3rd arent nearly as bad as walks without an open base or no one base.

"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"

by blalock84 on Jul 15, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look

Im not saying walks are good. Anything not an out is bad. But if you give me two pitchers who allow the same number of baserunners give me the guy who walks more guys because hes probably gonna allow fewer runs.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

so if you have 2 guys with the same k/9

the same whip, but one has a bb/9 of 2 and the other has a bb/9 of 4 you wold rather have the bb/9 of 4?

balls in play have a much greater chance of becoming an out than a hit, a team full of franklin guttierez, nelson cruz and ian kinslers are going to help the guy with more hits, but less BB than a guy who has more BB and less hits much more often

thats my viewpoint at least

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well... the key is that the number of baserunners is the same...

So your bb/9 = 2 pitcher gives up 2 more hits than your bb/9 = 4 pitcher.

Would you rather have a 9-walk no-hitter or a 9-hit barely quality start?

by NoNameOnCard on Jul 15, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes
Well… the key is that the number of baserunners is the same…

So your bb/9 = 2 pitcher gives up 2 more hits than your bb/9 = 4 pitcher.

the thing is that the 9 walk no hitter has happened what, once? while a 9 hit QS is much more likely to happen and if you have a good defense you are much less likely to allow 9 hits or turn some of the hits into outs…

to me 8 balls in play > 8 walks…

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duh, but that's not the comparison.

The comparison is walks to HITS. If you’d rather have 8 hits than 8 walks, then you’re crazy.

by NoNameOnCard on Jul 15, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if you give me two pitchers who allow the same number of baserunners give me the guy who walks more guys because hes probably gonna allow fewer runs.

hmm somewhere i turned hits into balls in play

my bad!

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, it's not a "walks vs. hits in the abstract conversation" at all, it's a "what walk and K rates mean in terms of projection going forward" conversation.

Large Guy Stephen is right in that sense: There are many situations in a baseball game where a walk is ridiculously worse than a hit.

But that’s not what this about and the fact that he keeps trying to frame it in that manner is frustrating to me.

Walk rates are a very important tool in statistical analysis of a pitching prospect when projecting how they should perform going forward, and shouldn’t be lumped together with hit rates except in some very limited situations.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Walks

A simple stat such as walk rate only tells so much. How did those walks occur. Were they simply 4 wild pitches in a row? Was it a 9 or 10 pitch at bat where he just lost him in the end? Was he pitching around a teams best hitter cause there are runners on base? The last two I can take and not be mad at most times. If he is having alot of wild at bats where he can’t throw a strike to save his life then there is cause for concern in my book

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

same thing can be said about K rate

was it where the guy was tricked after a long AB and was frozen on a slider/curve?

was it a 10 pitch AB where he k’d on a good pitch?

was it a 3 pitch AB where he pulled a chris davis?

what stats DO you look at for pitchers since evidently walk rates dont matter much

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's a simple reason that high walk rates

don’t translate into success for pitchers. A high walk rate means the pitcher lacks control. If you don’t have control, you won’t win very often. There’s a big difference between throwing strikes vs throwing quality strikes. Similarly, there’s a huge difference between throwing a pitch for a ball that is 2 inches outside vs throwing a wild pitch in the dirt. Greg Maddux proved that you don’t have to have overpowering stuff if you can locate it well.

"Evolution happened, now get over it." Michael Shermer

by rodcarew on Jul 15, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

and

this is why its important to look at scouting reports as well as the numbers!

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 16, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jason Neighborgall begs to differ.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

32 BB/9

Nice.

Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador

by Parman on Jul 15, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

*head explodes*

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

and adding HBP in, what do you get?

I get the KK love, but I can’t understand his proclivity for plunking batters this year. It knocked him down a peg this year for me along with all the other questions(is he RP or SP?, his size, yada, yada) Anyone got any ideas why he is suddenly channeling Padzilla?

Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador

by Parman on Jul 15, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

its that bulldog mentality!!!!!!!

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unless your name is Padilla

then you’re just crazy.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 15, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cherry pick much?
The league leader in strikeouts and among the leaders in ERA, holding the league to a .219 BA.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008

by Rodney on Jul 15, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Guess not

That’s a sweeter cherry :)

Promote Nam!

by LukeR on Jul 15, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also one of the leaders in walks

and the leader in HBP

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually he mentioned about the hit-bys.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

its a lot easier

to stop walking people, than start striking people out and letting them score

by blueballlefty on Jul 15, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

after perusing the magic calendar

Kiker’s HBPs in June and July, most recent first…

0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes

he has stopped hitting batters as much.
i was merely pointing out that he is also near the top of the league in those categories. take it however you want

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jul 15, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess you're referring to his BB rate?

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

Typical MJH; Kiker has had argubly the most erratic season of any top-ranked starter prospect, between months, between games and within innings.

by Goyogringo on Jul 15, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mad Max a mili

"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem

by inactive lsb user on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Noyce

BBTIA Top 25.

"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks

by hightowersmith on Jul 15, 2009 11:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Kiker will prove everyone wrong...

he should be #6.

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Jul 15, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions  

I've been voting Kiker since 6 as well.

That might be one spot too high, as Font has the makings of a monster. Kiker though has been dominant in his last several starts for Frisco, and I just have a really strong feeling that he’s turned the corner. I love what Hindman had to say about him.

by Bandire on Jul 15, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

six?

number SIX?

that is more of an outrage than hunter at 9, or hurley at 10 last year

six?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where would you put Kiker KOK?

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Jul 15, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

sure as hell not at #6

10-12 range — with guys like ross, weiland, etc

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why?

He’s performing well in AA as a 21 year old, he’s got a solid K rate and, though his BB rate is high right now, it’s been lower each of the last few years so at least there’s a track record of good control to look back on and say maybe limiting walks is something he can still do going forward.

I don’t get all the Kiker negativity ’round here.

I think there’s a decent chance he ends up as a dominant late inning lefty as opposed to a starter, but I don’t think his chances of ending up as a reliever are that much greater than, say, Neffy and Font.

I’m going Max here, but I don’t get why Kiker at 6 is tantamount to a live video webcast of a coat hanger abortion or whatever.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is the same guy that thinks Hurley at 10 last year was an outrage

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

go check the fucking stats.

hurley > kiker.

whats are the odds that kiker is a back of the rotation arm vs beavan? lower.
what are the odds tha tkiker is a bullpen arm vs beavan? higher

what is kiker above average in? his stuff? pitchability? control?

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know the stats

And Kiker at 6 is not an outrage. I wouldn’t put him at 6, but its far from being an outrage.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

again

what is kiker above average in? stuff? pitchability? control?

you have to be pretty damn good to stick as a ML starter, and i simply dont really think/see that kiker has that

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kiker for me

Given that Main is now done for the year and also that MJH has Main ranked at 10 (with no Scheppers, Purke, or Hunter in his rankings), just wondering if anyone feels differently about Main over Kiker/Ross/whoever or if that has no effect on them.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Where do you have Main on this current ranking?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

7th or 8th

with Borbon in the other slot

by Brett Perryman on Jul 15, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

a dude is going to miss almost a whole year, with a mysterious ailment and that doesn’t effect his ranking for you?

by blueballlefty on Jul 15, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

It affected Fonts last year

And he didn’t have crappy stats to go along with it. Hopefully Main comes back next year and kicks ass in High A and earns a quick promotion to AA and we can all forget about this year but to rank him above a guy like Kiker right now baffles me.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

It didn't mine

at least not as much as Main’s has.

by Brett Perryman on Jul 15, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

'It affected Font's last year"

And how much it affected seems a little silly in retrospect, no?

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hindsight is 20/20 right

Dropping him last year was very justifiable. Which is why I say I hope main comes back next year and lights up High A and AA but to rank him at 10 right now seems too high

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't hindsight for me

Go back and check the threads if you doubt me. I don’t think dropping him THAT MUCH was justifiable.

But I’m certainly far from a big brain on these matters; I just don’t have the time, and possibly the intellect.

I guess I am a little slower than most to jump both on and off the bandwagon (and again, I don’t mean that as a horn toot). Personally, if a guy is assessed w/ a well above average skill/skill set, I’m not very inclined to alter my viewpoint based on a hot or freezing month or two, and of course, the reverse is true as well.

Main is the same as Font for me.

That is also why I was slow to come around on Borbon and Lemon, two very different guys who I initially had very low expectations for. I still think some are a bit pollyannish on Borbon, but I freely admit that I was wrong to facetiously dismiss Borbon’s ceiling as that of an “assistant peep show janitor.”

So no, I disagree, dropping Main to the mid-teens or so, which you seem to be advocating, is a wrongheaded overreaction, and it isn’t any more justifiable, in my opinion, than gas-facing Wilmer was last year.

Main belongs in the top 10.

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's not what I said

I said that the news that he will in fact not come back for the next six weeks of games doesn’t change anything for me. Yesterday at this time, how much of the rest of the season did you think Main was going to pitch, and how optimistic were you that he’d be 100% for that?

As far as Mike ranking him 10th, I think that is definitely balanced by his comments from discussions with Rangers “folks.”

by Brett Perryman on Jul 15, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, precisely.

I had already pretty much chalked this season up as a lost year for Main and so had already factored that into my rankings.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I had a feeling most people felt that way about Main

where this year was a lost year anyways. I was wondering if there were any others out there that thought he could scrap this season sort of like he did in 2007 when he spent half the season hurt.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 15, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know what I don't get?

Main sitting 2-3 spots above Max, because Max’s production has dropped due to wrist tendinitis while MM might have fucking AIDS for all we know.

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jul 15, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Beastman AIDS!

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It depresses the shit out of me that I know that reference

Break dance, take off your furry pants

Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law

by Keynes on Jul 15, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now that I think about it... It depresses me that I know it, too.

Me and my idiot buddies sure did watch some stupid shit when we bored back in the day.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought I was done voting for Kiker yesterday, but he's still on the board.

I’m drafting him again today.

My votes so far:

  1. Smoak
  2. Feliz
  3. Perez
  4. Kiker
  5. Purke
  6. missed
  7. missed
  8. missed
  9. Kiker
  10. Kiker
  11. Kiker

Maybe tomorrow I can vote for someone new…

"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09

by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 15, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions  

I wouldn't have gone Kiker at 4

But I have been from 6 on. I didn’t expect him to make it till 8 but to wait until 11 seems weird to me

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 15, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't following the rules for unsigned prospects

I’d would have has Scheppers at 4.

I think if Kiker can stop plunking guys more often than Padilla, he will be really good. He just needs to find his control again. I tend to think that when guys lose control that they’ve had in the past, if its not due to injury, then the cause is that they are tweaking their delivery or working on a new pitch This is especially true in the minors where tinkering and pitch development are emphasized more than game results. We often don’t hear what the pitchers are working on; we just see the box score.

"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09

by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 15, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh, I'm starting to get this same Phil Connors-esque vibe, only with Maximillian.

1. Feliz
2. Feliz
3. Perez
4. Purke
5. Purke
6. Font
7. Borbon
8. (Tie- No vote.)
9. Max
10. Max
11. Max

The 40 Trumps All!!!

Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?

by thedirkatron on Jul 15, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you going to do this in every thread?

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

Does it bother you? I think its interesting to see the history of peoples votes. I think everyone should be doing it.

"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09

by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 15, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess not

No big whoop.

I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.

"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales

by Brian Thomas on Jul 15, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

MJH on kiker
7) Kasey Kiker (21 year old LHP: Double-A)
– There are some who think that Kasey Kiker’s dominance of the Texas League is a smoke and mirrors act — maybe even an accident — but I’m not one of them. The league leader in strikeouts and among the leaders in ERA, Kiker — in my opinion — has an extremely advanced idea of what he’s doing out there. Yes, his velocity has been "down" (normally sitting 89-91 mph with his fastball) but I’ve seen him a couple of times and on both occasions, he’ll pop a 94 or even a 96. And then another one an inning later.

Kiker will bust a hitter inside (actually hitting them too often), but he’ll follow the high-and-tight cheese with offspeed stuff away and he has the command to drop either his curve or his change in for an easy strike on the outside corner once he’s backed a guy off the plate by an inch or two.

In my glass-half-full analysis of Kiker, he has an uncanny feel for changing speeds. On one occasion, I saw him hit every number on the gun between 77 and 94. Literally, every single one, making him very unpredictable. Personally, I think he does this on purpose and it’s a big reason that he’s holding the Texas League to a .219 batting average this year.

Kiker’s change is actually better than his curve right now. He seems to be just as likely to throw either one to a lefty or righty. Once again, unpredictable. Like Ross, Kiker is extremely competitive and it shows.

For me, this was going to be a huge year for Kiker. I wanted to see him post up and show some consistency. He had two bumpy outings in June, but otherwise he’s done the job so far. In my book, Kiker has improved his stock more than any other player in the system this year.

Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx

by knockoutking on Jul 15, 2009 7:08 PM CDT reply actions  

I liked what MJH wrote here.

I thought it matched up perfectly with what my eyes saw on TV Sunday vs what I saw at the stadium in early June. Dude is getting a clue – dialed his stuff back and is becoming a crafty lefty. It would be really cool if he could reintroduce some controlled heat when he needs it here and there. Still time.

by shroomer on Jul 15, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kiker's sort of an enigma.

MJH and I talked a lot about it. I’m not as convinced about Kiker’s intent as he is.

One thing is evident, though, he can definitely crank the velocity up there when he wants to. He does it so rarely, though, that it’s hard to get a handle on how good or bad his command of those fastballs really is.

We also talked about his curveball. The BA article mentioned that Kiker said his curveball is morphing into a slider. The article doesn’t say whether that’s intentional or not, but it is definitely happening.

This leads me to believe that Kiker isn’t as in control of his stuff as he makes it seem. Maybe he chooses when to slide the curve and when to drop it. Maybe he chooses whether he throws 86-88 for a game and when he throws 89-91. I’m not convinced.

A lot of these questions would be answered with a simple interview… but I’m not the interviewing type.

by NoNameOnCard on Jul 15, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man

I keep forgetting how this system has so many of these solid mid-level arms.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

by jonthefon on Jul 15, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Ross

Although I would like to see a larger sample size, Ross’s ceiling convinced me to vote for him. However Max Ramirez/Kiker/Wieland were all tempting to a certain degree.

by TRanger on Jul 15, 2009 11:04 PM CDT reply actions  

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