Friday a.m. Rangers things
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 17, 2009 9:08 AM CDT
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PrintAnd the Rangers resume playing today. I'll be at the game tonight, and Ben will supposedly be monitoring the game day threads.
Derek Holland is back in the rotation and pitching Sunday, with the Twins' lefty-heavy lineup apparently a contributing factor in the decision to go with Holland rather than Tommy Hunter, who was originally scheduled to start on Sunday, or Dustin Nippert.
Of course, the Twins have a 766 OPS against lefties this season, vs. a 765 OPS against righties...
Also of note from those notes is that Matt Harrison threw a bullpen session, but is supposedly going to have multiple rehab starts before returning, and that David Murphy is still hurting. Harrison's situation may have played into the decision to put Holland back in the rotation, as his target return date was August 1, but if he's going to have multiple rehab starts before he comes back, he's probably looking at mid-August instead. Which means, rather than one or maybe two starts from Harrison's stand-in, the Rangers are looking at four or five starts, which could have been the tipping point in going with Holland rather than Nippert.
I'd have a little more confidence in the organization's decision-making on this if I didn't keep remembering that these are the same folks who felt the team would be better off with Kris Benson in the rotation than with Scott Feldman.
Orlando Hernandez will not be joining the Ranger bullpen. He's been informed the Rangers aren't planning on adding him to the active roster prior to his opt-out date on Monday, and thus he'll be exercising his opt-out option and will be looking to join another organization.
Anthony Andro has a Q&A up with Ron Washington, who is fired up about the second half.
T.R. Sullivan says the Rangers have talked to the Blue Jays about Roy Halladay, and the cost is expected to be Justin Smoak and at least two good young pitchers. I'm guessing we are talking about something like Smoak, Perez, and Beavan for Halladay, which is probably more than the Rangers are willing to give up.
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That was the longest four days...
of my life.
Rangers baseball please.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 17, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm wearing my new Rangers hat to work today
in protest of that 4 day break. I had to go out and play Tennis last night, I was so bored…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what was worse than Benson in the Rotation?
Nippert and DoMath getting starts.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
jason jennings
potentially ever getting a chance at a start. to be honest, i hate seeing him pitching for the rangers in general.
baseBALLIN!
I think it's fun
it’s like Russian roulette
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If Perez is in the Halladay deal
I would have to say thanks but no thanks and hang up the phone.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
definitely
you might be able to convince me to trade just about anyone else for Halladay….but not Perez.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
Smoak, Kiker and Ross but the Blow Jays would turn that down.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
My proposed deal was
Davis
Kiker
Main
Vallejo
Harrison/Hunter
If they demanded Smoak instead of Davis, I might relent.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I love your original deal
but I doubt the jays do it.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
you're probably right
but thats gotta be a pretty hard deal for other teams to top, no?
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Well if we could replace Main with Ross
I wouldn’t mind that deal.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Main is at a low point
I think Ross would be the more valuable commodity to offer.
Main has that sparkly “promise” tag attached to him, and Ross was a lowly second round pick (2nd round = fail, right?), but I’m mixed as to who I’d rather lose as both seem to be promising prospects.
And atleast Ross has been able to show up to the mound, so I kind of give him the current edge. Mystery illnesses are bad bad bad.
Well I'm going on what Fin said
“Never trust a short pitcher, they never turn out very good.”
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I always go with what Fin said.
Anyways, wasn’t it just this summer after one wonky BMac start that we all started a near panic amongst ourselves in talking about how easily tall starting pitchers’ mechanics get out of whack? So, short = bad; tall = bad. There is no hope.
by FuturePants on Jul 17, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ohh the world is coming to an end!!
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Bwahaha
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
I really really like Ross.
it would be hard for me to give him up. Maybe Boscan would tickle their fancy.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Good call
Ross’ strikeout/groundout tendencies are just flat out sexy.
While Boscan is making it happen with “pitchability”, that can only go so far and mistakes are taken to a higher level at the ML level, but those stats and age sure should make him shiny looking.
my thoughts exactly
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
only problem with that is
They have scouts also.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I doubt Ross would be the deal breaker.
if he is…fuck em. Good luck finding a better deal.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I was talking about Boscan
I think they would like Ross over Boscan
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
yeah, I got ya.
I just doubt the deal would hinge on Ross’ inclusion. Maybe it would, but with our depth I’d find it hard to believe.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Holland and Davis for Halladay and
a lower Latin kid?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
oh hell yeah
in a heartbeat.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
davis, kiker, main, vallejo, harrison/hunter
vs
wood, arredondo, t reisling, kendrick, SP
hmm
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
The Phillies, Yanks and Red Sox could shit all over those packages without breaking a
by LiamP on Jul 17, 2009 10:07 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
oh man Liam's a preemie!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I will give you the Phillies and Sox
But the Yanks system sucks. They would have to include Hughes or Joba.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
hughes or joba, montero (probably a 1b), austin jackson (who lots of ppl arent that high on), latin SP, what else
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Well I think the Jays are looking for a ss
in the package also. I just don’t think there is a match with the Yankmees.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
re: SS
a lot of ppl dont think that donald is a long term SS (takes out Philly unless TOR thinks he is)
there are questions about vallejo/lemon staying at SS (takes out TEX)
wood is either a SS or a 3B (LAAofAAAAA)
what other teams out there have a SS that they could move that would be interested?
TB? (brignac? but in division and idk if TOR would like him that much)
CWS? (beckham, but who knows)
Cubs (have a ton of SS guys, but who knows if anyone really likes them/they have teh trade chips outside of vitters + SS + ???)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
gamel?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
good point
totally forgot about escobar
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I've brought this up before
If you look throughout the minors, SS prospects are few and far between. I think right now SS prospects are what JD was hoping that Catching prospects would be.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Yep
catchers are pretty strong right now. If Toronto is talking to Texas I guarantee they bring up Andrus. No deal, of course, but they might be pretty firm in demanding Smoak in that case.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
How many SS did the Rangers draft back in June?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
none really
but the 2 high profile international guys we signed are both shortstops.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Not sure what your point is.
If quality SS are few and far between than I would expect them not to draft any in early rounds since they typically go best player available. And I’m not sure why that would be relevant to the trade discussion.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
After Elvis
who’s our best SS prospect? Lemon? Vallejo? Profar?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Scary thought
but they’re not dealing Andrus, so I’m not that concerned.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
after Elvis
We don’t really have a SS prospect. But most organizations don’t.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
kind of going off on a tangent on what tricer said
JD drafted a number of C in oder to make it a position of strength. Did he try to load up on SS in order to make that a future strength?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I'm not sure, though
that JD drafted catchers for specifically that reason. I think the team drafts the best player they feel is available. Maybe that makes them rank catchers higher than another organization might, or maybe it’s a tie breaker, but they don’t draft just to load up on catchers.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
JD drafted a bunch of catchers?
Teagarden I know but Max and Salty came via trade, Pina was a LA signee correct?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Could Jeff Huson come out of retirement
And be included in a trade?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
The Yanks could take Wells' contract back
That would be huge for Toronto.
BA likes Montero better than Smoak btw.
by LiamP on Jul 17, 2009 10:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
montero, if he stays at C
could be pretty great
but idk if montero is going to be as good as smoak, has a LONG way to go, will never be an above avg glove man at 1B and may make miguel cabrera look skinny
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think they'd be willing to trade Doc
to a division rival. The Phillies are the team I worry about. That Angels package is shit, imo.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Ricciardi told the Yanks and Red Sox he wants to deal out of division
The Yanks have the talent to do the deal in a vacuum, but I’m not sure they do given that Ricciardi would need a stupid package to make the in-division deal acceptable.
Red Sox could do a crazy good deal I imagine, but I don’t see why they’d want to pay through the nose for an ace when they’ve got like seventeen ML-ready starters right now. Unless Theo is trying to form a ten man rotation, they’d be better served spending their prospects on other needs or just holding onto them. The Sox are kinda good as is.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
by WestTxAg06 on Jul 17, 2009 11:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
link?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
On my phone so don't have exact link offhand
But I read it in yesterday’s Halladay rumors on MLBTR.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
by WestTxAg06 on Jul 17, 2009 12:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
good enough for me
will surf over there
gracias!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
the phillies?
i dont know abotu that — depends if you like donald
whats the phillies version? taylor, brown, donald
i would think that kendrick, wood, arredondo vs taylor, brown, donald isnt that far from a wash (or a win for the LA side)
yankees would be what?
jackson, montero, hugues, one of their young latin SP, coke vs davis, kiker, main, vallejo, SP vs wood, arredondo, reisling, kendrick, SP? id take the angels deal
redsox could beat almost any deal from almost any system (including ours) — by offering buchhotlz, kelly, anderson but i think there is about a 0% chance of them doing that
btw, we could also “shit all over those packages” as could teams like the giants, etc
the phillies i just dont see THAT strong of a package coming from them unless they will move drabek
brown, taylor, donald, happ, ??
davis, kiker, main, vallejo, hunter or harrison
wood, arredondo, kendrick, reislig, SP
i dont see how in the hell that the phillies get him w/o giving up drabek. what deal could the phillies offer that would top say a davis/kiker/main/vallejo/harrison or hunter/melo type offer?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
You are seriously overvaluing that Angels/Rangers package
by LiamP on Jul 17, 2009 10:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And yes, they'll likely have to give up Drabek.
by LiamP on Jul 17, 2009 10:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
right
and drabek is probably the deal breaker
will they give him up? i dont know. but if they do, then i dont see how the rangers or anyone else can match it w/o giving up their top pitching prospect. that throws the angels out, and makes the rangers have to include one of holland/feliz/perez
that said, im not sure that the phillies give him up (i dont think they will) and if they dont, then those packages are pretty damn good.
not everoyne is that high on taylor (i like him a lot) and brown, a LOT of people dont like donald (and have read multiple places hes not going to be a SS), happ to me isnt THAT good but maybe TOR likes him quite a bit.
btw the same could be saaid of rangers package and really the angels package (davis may not have many believers left, kiker/main have their own questions).
that said, if your not too hot on brown or taylor (those are the 2 guys who would likely “head” the PHI package if no drabek) then i dont see how that fake offer above is any good
davis/main or wood/kendrick are pretty good offers, again if your not getting a “top” pitching prospect in the mold of drabek/holland/feliz/buchholtz/etc — then think those very well could be the better/best offers they get.
this is all going off of the assumption that philly wont trade drabek. but say they do and the deal is something like:
drabek, taylor, donald, happ, ???
then that tops the angels package and its up to the rangers to try to counter it with something like
holland, kiker, main, vallejo, ??? (moreland? beltre? maxram?)
i think an offer of holland, main, maxram, lemon/vallejo, kiker would be pretty damn competitive with any deal/offer out there
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd hold off on that deal...
but that’s just me
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
If Smoak is in the Halladay deal
I would have to say thanks but no thanks and hang up the phone.
I know I’ve already said that like 7 times already, but… yeah.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
Yep,
I agree with you. Especially as the farm keeps giving us hackers like Davis and Borbon who are not likely to ever have high OBPs, especially under Rudy’s training.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I think I'd be happy to include Smoak in a deal...
No knock on him, but the last 4 days gave me a chance to come to a couple of conclusions:
a) bats are easier to find & sign than pitchers
b) bats from outside the org seem to be more immune to the “all or nothing” syndrome
That being said, I think I’m OK with a Smoak, Beavan & Perez deal, although I’d try like heck to replace Perez with one or two slightly lesser arms. Perez is several years away from Arlington, and a lot can happen. If we can get two playoff runs out of Halladay, I’d do it every time.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Bats like that
are not easy to find or acquire. Plate discipline combined with power and avg. is a rare combo. The Rangers have far too little plate discipline like that in the organization so I’d be very hesitant to give up Smoak.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Arms like Perez
are not easy to find or acquire either. You can teach plate discipline you can’t teach a pitcher to have a great arm.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I don't think you can really teach plate discipline to that degree
Chris Davis is obviously never going to be Smoak. I’m not trading either one of them, Smoak or Perez. Prospects of that caliber, hitters or pitchers, are not that easy to acquire and develop.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I haven't seen many players
dramatically improve their plate discipline in the majors. Its happened, but it isn’t very common.
If it was common, I wouldn’t worry so much about CD potentially flopping. I’ve seen other hitters like Incaviglia and Deer fail because they never could figure out the strike zone.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Ok you don't get it
One you can teach it doesn’t mean the student will get it but you CAN teach it. The other you have to have a special arm to throw like Perez does. You can NOT teach that. You either have a special are or you don’t.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Actually
I’ve seen pitchers have increased velocity from their teenage years, and I’ve seen hitters improve their plate discipline.
Its pretty damn rare in both cases. We’ll see if Perez can still throw well when he is 24.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Perez
is a great arm, but he’s so far away and has so many years in his injury nexus, that I think he’s the one of the top 3 that you trade away.
Neftali Feliz and Justin Smoak are far more valuable commodities, to me, than Perez.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I don't think you trade any of the three
And you can throw in Holland for that matter.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I think
that’s dumb.
At some point, guys like Hamilton, Cruz and Kinsler will be out of their primes, and we’ll have to fill our team with positional players and offensive talents that we, frankly, don’t have right now.
If trading Martin Perez gets you Roy Halladay for the next 5 years (say he signs a 3 year extension) to coincide with the Hamilton/Kinsler/Cruz era, then you do it.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
But you can't trade for Halladay
assuming he will sign an extension.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Whatever
then you get him for 2 years. There’s talk that he needs to have an extension to waive his no-trade. I think both parties would be willing to do that.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I read somewhere
Toronto would not give a grace period to the other team to work out and extension.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I read that also.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
It's still 1.5 years of one of the best pitchers in the league
and JP Riccardi is retarded.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
The short bus might pick him up every day
but the kid with the bike helmet still holds all the cards.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Ok I should have said
I think you can trade those guys for a younger stud and have control over for a longer period of time then load up the bus with money. Such as Timmy Linc and the Grink
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
The only problem with that
is that no one trades young studs until they’re Roy Halladay age. You talk as if one of those guys come onto the market every other day.
The Clay Buchholz experience should have been an education for Ranger fans – no one wants to give up young, major league ready pitching. Not even for an area of great need.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Never said they come on the market every other day
Just saying I wouldn’t trade the farm on only 1.5 years of service. I would be willing to trade a few top tier guys just not what they are asking for.
Do you not think if the Rangers had offered say Smoak and Feliz to Boston for Buchholz they would have turned it down?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
That's once again
a flawed argument. We’re not talking about Feliz or Smoak, we’re talking about a guy like Martin Perez
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
We will agree to disagree
I wouldn’t trade Perez. There are others I would trade but not him. Tell me how this is flawed? Do you not think Toronto wouldn’t be happy with Feliz or Holland?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
It's flawed
because I think it’s dumb that you’d rather trade 2, older, more polished, more major ready players who have just as much, if not more upside, than Perez while you wouldn’t trade the 18 year old in A ball.
It’s a flawed sense of reasoning considering we’re a young team who’s just seeing its window of opportunity open. The same argument applies with Justin Smoak.
Right now, the question Rangers fans should be asking is not “which players can we best project about?”, but "which ones will help us the most over the next 5 years. Cause that’s our window for the Hamilton-Kinsler-Cruz. 5 years.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Ok
Who would you give up to get Halladay then?
I mean really why are you getting your tit in a sling when there is almost no chance he comes here any way.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Anyone(any player under 25)
not named Holland, Feliz or Smoak.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Probably won't get a deal done under that constraint.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I don't know
there’s a lot of confusion about Halladay. No one seems to want to give up anyone for him. We’ll see how this develops.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Your package falls under that
Atleast I would pony up to get Halladay. There is no way Toronto will take a package that doesn’t have one of Holland,Feliz or Smoak in it.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Absolute statements like
“there’s no way X would do X” have a history of making people look like fools. We’ll have a better idea over the next weeks of what the market looks like.
Martin Perez is a very good prospect, it just depends on how the Blue Jays will play it.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
So you really think
Toronto will take a package that doesn’t have one of those 3 players in it? This is a flawed argument. You want help for Hamm and Kins but don’t want to give up what it would take to give them that help.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I don't know
like I said, the market really hasn’t developed yet.
Phils don’t really want to give up Drabek. The Sox don’t really want to surrender Buchholz. The Dodgers refuse to part with Kershaw, etc, etc.
I think we can’t definitively talk about what could and could not get it done. Right now, this is just a discussion of “what should be on the table”
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
i think that it depends
on 1) if they really want to move him and 2) if philly will move drabek, the sox will move buchholtz, etc
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It depends on the rest of the package
of course, but yes, you’re definitely right about that.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
This is a good point, I've thought about it a lot
Hamilton and Kinsler are pretty rare talents, both entering their prime seasons. Cruz, to a certain extent fits in that category as well. At some point you have to consolidate resources and deal from the farm to fill in holes and try to win now (next 3 years or so), or you deal the ML studs and concentrate all resources for a window in the future (say 3-6 years from now).
Bottom line, I’d hate to see Kinsler and Hambone spend their peak seasons playing for a consistently mediocre team with the best farm system in the game.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
MaxRam's bat a year ago seemed that way
look at him now? same could be said of Chris Davis.
the point is, if you have a Teixera-like bat vs. a Halladay-like ace, who would you rather have?
I’d take the ace 8 out of 10 times.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
I told y’all El Dookie was a waste of time.
http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/6/11/906439/rangers-sign-el-duque-to-minor#16862163
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
Didn't cost much though.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
nah
it didn’t. He actually did much better than in AAA than I had expected, numbers wise. I’m guessing that was just because of how deceiving his motion is. Deception alone won’t cut it in the bigs.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I was all about the move when we got him.
He was a low risk/high reward type of acquisition and he impressed from what little I had seen from him.
I don’t really think the moves are all that comparable, though. Yes they were both low risk moves and his submarine style is indeed deceptive. But he doesn’t rely solely on deception. He has some nasty movement on his pitches and can basically put it where ever he wants to. He’s also not a retread in his mid 40’s.
and he’s not a former Yankee. :oP
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Smoak and Perez
makes it a big no go. I could see one or the other, preferably not smoak, because he addresses a huge need in the OBP department.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I'd rather trade Smoak than Perez
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather trade Perez than Smoak
Obviously the “reaching full potential” value of Perez is considerably higher. But at most you’re talking about a 20-25% chance of him being a solid rotation pitcher, much less the Cy Young candidate we’re all dreaming about. So many things can happen.
Smoak has probably a 75% or 80% chance of being a solid ML firstbaseman (worst case scenario, Casey Kotchman), and over a 25% chance of being an All-star caliber player.
Go Rice Owls!
It is a helluva a lot easier to find the next Smoak than it is the next Perez
That’s my reasoning.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't really think so
But I guess that depends on what you think Smoak is.
I think Smoak type hitters are actually a lot rarer than people think. There tend to be only one or two very good hitters that come up to the majors every year. Everyone knows who these guys are, and they know they are going to succeed. These guys have a very narrow range of possible outcomes and a very high expected value as hitters. Guys like Evan Longoria, who the Rays were so confident in they locked him up less than a month into his career. True pedigree hitters don’t fail very often. And they aren’t common – in recent years, the only one of these guys the Rangers have brought in was Mark Teixeira, a top 5 pick like Longoria and like Smoak was expected to be.
When you have one of these guys, it is like getting paid with a gold bar. You know what it is worth. It is worth a lot. Martin Perez is like getting 100,000 options to your internet startup. They could make you a millionaire, or they could be worth absolutely nothing. There is a reason lots of companies pay with options, few with gold bars. There aren’t many gold bars to go around.
Go Rice Owls!
Yeah, but
Smoak needs to stop hitting like Kevin Richardson vs leftys.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 17, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
He's had
how many PAs versus lefties?
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 17, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
reply fail
to Cahill
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 17, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I see where Perez
is gonna be a closer rather than a starter.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
MJH on Main
At the same time, he’s losing too much developmental time for strange reasons and I’m beginning to get a strange feeling that fate is just not on his side. In other words, I am downgrading Main more for durability concerns than his disappointing results this season.
He’s not downgrading him based on durability concerns; he’s downgrading him based on bad luck.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
THis meme
that “Smoak sucks against lefties” needs to stop.
Look guys, his K rate is exactly the same, his walk rate is about the same.
The difference between Justin Smoak the righty and Justin Smoak the lefty is a .200 difference in BABIP. That’s all. It’s 64 ABs, the fact that anyone tries to make a definitive statement from 64 ABs is dumb.
Justin Smoak is the 2nd best prospect the Rangers have, and is the most unique of their prospects. He has much, much, much, much more value to me than Martin Perez.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I like this analogy with the gold bar and options.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
you can go buy Adam Dunn, trade for Nick Johnson, etc.
and come up with the same value Smoak’s going to give us for the next couple of years, I’d imagine
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
But the future is now. The Rangers are beginning their planned-for 5-yr period of competitiveness a little early.
Can the Rangers find a Smoak this next offseason or in the draft that can contribute the next 3-5 years?
Most likely they’d have to sign someone like Nick Johnson, or they can promote Smoak and use that money on Halladay next year (and maybe beyond?, or if not beyond then in the FA SP market after the 2010 season).
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
"Can the Rangers find a Smoak this next offseason or in the draft"
I don’t think you get these guys if you are picking in the bottom half of the draft. You’re hoping to get lucky at that point.
Go Rice Owls!
from Rooster above "Most likely they’d have to sign someone like Nick Johnson..."
That’s why I say they are a lot easier to replace.
I don’t disagree that 98 times out of a hundred, if you want to draft the next Smoak, you’d need to have a top 10 pick, and be lucky, but great hitters can be had if the wallet is fat, or if you want to trade a AA pitching stud for them. You seemed to have taken my comment and applied it strictly to the draft.
Kids with Martin’s TOTAL package? Not so much. And he may be young, but he seems to wipe his ass with mere learning curves. By this time next yr he’ll most likely be dealing in Frisco.
And I’m not saying I can’t see why the sure thing has a ton of value, but if we are talking bite you in the ass factor, it would hurt me a lot more to see Perez traded than Bustin Justin.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Perez is either likely to be dealing in Frisco OR
visiting Dr Jobe.
My point is that guys that far away from contributing are nice and all, but we’re entering our window, and I’m not sure I’d pass up a Halladay for what could be the latest incarnation of Jovanny freakin’ Cedeno
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
latest incarnation of Jovanny freakin’ Cedeno
why? because hes is latino, young and doing well below AA?
i think this is at least the 2nd time you have said this, and i would like to see a reason why you think so/say that.
is MP’s approach like cedenos?
same kind of scouting profile?
same kind of pitches?
etc
etc
etc
because other than the fact that they are young, latino pitchers doing well in sub AA ball i dont see the similarities — you can say that about how many pitchers?
i thikn purke is like nolan ryan, young, has a good FB and is from texas
this is the fin approach to comparisionnss between players
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
WTF is that all about???
Cedeno was a hotshot, can’t miss prospect who flamed out due to recurring injuries and never made it to AA.
The point I was TRYING to make is that can’t miss phenoms in A ball OFTEN turn into “whatever happened to…” guys. I could care less at this point about how similar they look, pitch or whatever. It’s irrelelevant when it comes to discussing attrition rates.
I don’t make them the dealbreaker if I really want the guy I’m looking to acquire.
You HAVE heard of TINSTAAPP, right?
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
my bad was brian p hayes
my response to that:
cedeno may have been before my time but i was always under the impression that perez is generally regarded as having better stuff, not being stubborn, better baseball "IQ", etc than cedeno — was alwas under the impression cedeno had a good FB, but was very raw in the other parts of the game
you were just saying generally because hes a hotshot sub AA prospect
that said, i dont remember that cedeno was ever seen as a “cant miss” prospect (little help guys? if he was let me know)
if you dont like perez, its foolish to make it this reason. also, there IS such thing as a pitching prospect (im sorry, its been used so much its like a creaking door, but there is. neffy feliz will have an impact for some major league team in the next 5 years. so will holland. its one thing to say that a guy pitching at A is the next big thing, its another ting to say it when the guy is owning AA or AAA, or just doing well at those levels, has great stuff, etc. while you can use TINSTAPP for a lot of guys in the rangers system — like martin perez — to use them for someone like feliz or holland or buchholtz or price or lincecum (when he was in the minors) or someone like kershaw is stupid. they are guy who did well/are doing well at the upper levels of the minors and who will, unless they have a career ending injury or some other major injury, have an effect on a major league team.
how many guys can you think of that did well at the upper levels of the minor leagues, had primo stuff and fell flat on their faces at the ML level?
by the way using him as an example is fucking dumb. look at his stats:
jovanny cedeno:
career (210 innings)
10.3 k/9
3.2 bb/9
1.005 WHIP
cedeno was de-railed by injuries, not by sucking at the uppper levels. if there is someone/some system out there that can predict injuries im all for it, but there isnt.
looking back at some old threads, DA Tron once said this:
Should be “TINSTAACMPP”. (There Is No Such Thing As A Can’t Miss Pitching Prospect.)
But I guess that isn’t as catchy since you can’t really pronounce it.
and thats 100% correct.
so while your overall point is correct, when you look at the whole picture — age, level, scouting reports, numbers, stuff, how he does when faced by tough competition, etc — his picture is pretty damn glowing. much more so than other guys who were good at lower levels and sucked higher up
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, last post on this rabbit hole..
Why is it, in your words, “fucking dumb” to use Cedeno as a comp?? He was, IIRC, at or near the top of Jamey’s can’t miss list for a least a year or two, yet he ended up geting derailed by injuries. Let me repeat that – by injuries. Not by performance or by sucking at higher levels.
THAT is why I made the reference to him, and it’s still a valid one. You turned into into a stats comp, not me. I was basing it strictly on the FACT that he’s a long way from contributing.
OBTW, when I think of TINSTAAPP, this is the kind of guy I think about, one at the lower levels of the system. There’s no doubt in my mind that guys like Feliz and Holland are prospects, so don’t hang the stupid label on me either please.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
this is frusterating
because you are comparing a player who is good in A ball to another player who was good in A ball but got injured.
so by that reasoning i can say that matthew purke and david clyde are comparable because they are both from houston, adn were picked at the top of the first round — right?
also your quote about TNISTAPP:
You HAVE heard of TINSTAAPP, right?
clearly by reading that i should have known you meant this:
when I think of TINSTAAPP, this is the kind of guy I think about, one at the lower levels of the system. There’s no doubt in my mind that guys like Feliz and Holland are prospects, so don’t hang the stupid label on me either please.
also what in the fuck does this mean:
You HAVE heard of TINSTAAPP, right
plus
There’s no doubt in my mind that guys like Feliz and Holland are prospects,
so which one is it, TINSTAPP or there IS such thing as a pitching prospect?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Good lord, dude quit being obtuse...
My singular point, which should be obvious by now to everyone except apparently you, is that guys in A ball don’t always make it in spite of great talent, and that hinging a deal solely on keeping those guys is not a smart strategy.
As for the rest of that stuff – I’m not gonna bite as it looks like you’re just trying to be argumentative. Again, I think my point was crystal clear – low level “prospects” flame out, hence the acronym. Guys at the higher level are less risky and more likely to meet expectations.
I really don’t get how this ever became argumentative. Is it really that hard to grasp my meaning?
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
you said TINSTAPP, not me.
then you said there WAS such a thing as a pitching prospect.
your point is that you wouldnt let any A ball starter keep you from getting Halladay because they tend to flame out, i got it. it depends on your whole idea about minor leagues (which i touched on below).
i understand what your saying.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I don't think I've said it elsewhere...
since I actually had to go to BRef this afternoon to get Jovanny’s last name.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
His last name is burned in my memory.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
It is in mine after this cluster today...
I never thought a simple ’tap the brakes" comment or two would mushroom so…
WE NEED REAL GAMES TO DISCUSS!!!!
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
...
…there is such thing as a pitching prospect :)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
How is Perez "likely" to be visiting Dr. Jobe?
Pretty hyperbolic for a guy with a seamless delivery and no injury history (and yes, I’m aware of the dreaded 17-21 nexus).
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Poorly worded on my part...
He was saying that “By this time next yr he’ll most likely be dealing in Frisco.”, and I was pointing out that bad things sometimes happen to sure things on their way up the ladder.
So, replace my “likely” with “could be” and I’m happy with my statement.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Also, to be clear...
I’m not real good at being the wet blanket on other’s optimism, so bear with me. But, I’m trying to point out that I don’t let a chance to acquire a KNOWN stud like Halladay hinge on ANY low-A ball player, however transcendant they may be.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
the point is that you are trading a guy
who you have control over for years to come, and will be cheap
for a guy who you have limited control over + is very expensive
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
So, by that logic...
we should never trade guys on the farm unless it’s for young guys from other teams? That;s an incredibly bad strategy in my book. First, most teams aren’t willing to trade young, near-ready or “already-ready” guys unless it is for a legit stud (like a Halladay) or unless the other team is willing to overpay (see the Bucholz trade talk). Second, and connected to this overpaying, is that you’re really now all that sure that the young guy you are acquiring is actually better long-term than your own guy (see mcCarthy, Brandon), so overpaying can really get you in deep trouble.
In my book, the whole reason you build minor league depth is so that you can afford to trade some of the chips for immediate help, and two pennant races with Halladay is a pretty attractive goal in my book.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
that I don’t let a chance to acquire a KNOWN stud like Halladay hinge on ANY low-A ball player
you ignore the fact that you are trading:
1.5 years of Halladay + ~7.125 million this year + 15.75 million next year + no-trade clause
for
5 years martin perez, at a low cost
In my book, the whole reason you build minor league depth is so that you can afford to trade some of the chips for immediate help, and two pennant races with Halladay is a pretty attractive goal in my book.
and i understand that, however it seems that (to this point) the “JD way” is to build minor league depth so you can have those players play on the major league field (the overwhelming majority of players currently playing for the rangers had time in their minors — salty, TT, davis (you know what i mean), kinsler, FOTF, andrus, murphy, etc
realize i agree with you to an extent , but what if (when?) halladay leaves the rangers after a year and a half for the dodgers and the rangers are left with nothing meanwhile the jays have multiple starters from the deal (see braves, teixeria)
to me you have to measure if its worth it….and in my mind i just dont think its worth it to trade say smoak, martin perez and beavan for Halladay. the 15 years of team control with those 3 players is likely to mean more to the Rangers over the next 5 years than the 1.5 years of Halladay (all you have guaranteed at this point in time)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
and that's where the risk comes in, isn't it....
You’re saying 15 years of team control for those three guys. I’m saying to often have to discount that by some factor because you MAY not even get 1 year out of those guys. Granted, Smoak is almost here so the risk is minimal with him, and Beavan is close as well, but i don’t think it’s quite as cut and dried a service time equation as you make it seem.
The reality, as pointed out my many on here, is that not all these guys, no matter how promising, can even make the 40 much less the 25.
It’s a simple game of numbers in some respect – that’s why I think the strategy DOES include trading some of the chips. In fact, JD has even been quoted as saying that the “excess” (I love that term, like we know who’s excess and who’s not) in some areas can be flipped.
It’s a tough call, no doubt. Like you said, the only guarantee would be the 1.5 years of Halladay, but that could well result in two flags flying and perhaps a few more palyoff victories than we’ve had so far. If Halladay DOES walk after that, hopefully Holland, Feliz and a few others from our stable of potential starters can keep us rolling.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
I gotta start proofreading more...
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Maybe
It really comes down to how great you think Perez is (and Smoak). From what I can tell, he really is as nice a pitching prospect as you can get in low A ball. Nothing obvious to worry about from an injury standpoint; no conditional statements like “when he develops a 3rd pitch.” bking brings up TINSTAAP; and I think that the flip side of TINSTAAP is that if a guy is a great pitcher, he’s a great pitcher regardless of where he is. If Martin Perez is the real deal, then he’s already the real deal now.
A full potential Perez is far more valuable than a full potential Justin Smoak (whether more valuable from the kind of silly $-value player estimations that are out there, I don’t know – but he’d be more valuable) And there is the added value that we’ve all seen countless awesome hitters come through Texas, and we’ve never hit the jackpot with a pitcher. I want to see a Cy Young caliber kid pitching for the Rangers.
That said, I think it isn’t fair to say you could just get a Nick Johnson to replace Smoak. I’m thinking Smoak’s long-term expected value to this organization is comparable to Evan Longoria’s to TB (not quite as high, but same order of magnitude). There is a reason Teixeira got paid some ridiculous cheddar (hehe) last offseason, and that Todd Helton is still collecting mad cash from a stupid contract. Top 2-3% hitters in the league are highly, highly valuable and rarer than you think.
Of course, I’m may be overestimating Smoak, and if you think his long-term value is more probably Nick Johnson, then yeah – you trade him for Halladay. (but after writing this post, I’m in t ball’s category of not wanting to trade either. Sure they won’t take Davis? His K’s would be even funnier in Canadian)
Go Rice Owls!
We actually did
hit the jackpot with the Rangers 20 some odd years ago with Kevin Brown, but one of Doug Melvin’s first acts was to not offer him arb.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Brown was non-tendered?
I thought he was just a straight up free agent? At least I remember that coming out of the ‘94 season, it was pretty clear Brown wasn’t going to re-sign with Texas.
Go Rice Owls!
I think he meant
that we didn’t offer arb for Kevin Brown in his FA year, thus missing out on two compensation picks….
I don’t think he meant we non-tendered him.
I don’t remember whether we did or not.
R
We may very well have different appraisals of both players
Smoak: I think Nick Johnson w/ out the brittle vagina is a pretty good ceiling for Justin. I would be shocked if he ends up anywhere near as valuable as Longoria. Shocked. I think the best thing about Smoak is that he is very close to a sure thing, but I think Longoria is a rock star in waiting.
Perez: Old timers correct me if I’m wrong, but my impression is that Perez is the best A ball pitcher we have ever had. Sure, Feliz, Holland, and wackadoo Kevin Brown have set a higher bar at the upper levels, and Danks might have done so once reaching the bigs, but if Martin keeps up the way he is progressing, he will have them all swinging from his nuts in a year or two.
As a general rule, I agree w/ what many like Firebat have said above about the Kincruzilton window and the injury nexus and A ballers being far away, but I emphatically feel that Martin Perez is the type of badass that you really, really ought to make an exception for, unless of course it was clear that Halladay was the final piece in the WS puzzle, which he clearly isn’t.
I could be wrong. I don’t spend the time many do reading the tea leaves, but I find it a lot harder to envision a scenario where I curse the Rangers for a dozen yrs for including Smoak in a Halladay package than I do the Rockin Caracan.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with the Smoak not as good as Longoria idea
Longoria looks like a superstar, Smoak just super.
I think we’ve had some guys put up gaudy stats in low-A ball, but I can’t recall a guy having his stuff that polished at that age/level combination ever. I really don’t think the Rangers have ever had an 18-yr. old with that kind of stuff and 3 pitches at that level before.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
I'd rather not trade either one
I’m not making a deal unless I can do it without including Smoak, Perez, Holland, or Feliz. I realize that pretty much makes a deal impossible, but I’m keeping those guys if it’s up to me.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Re: Benson over Feldman
I agree with AJM’s sentiments about how stupid it was to make that move, especially given what we know now about how godawful Kris Benson is and how great Feldman has been in the rotation. However, I have to think that there is maybe a more practical explanation; the Rangers already had control over Feldman, and didn’t Benson have opt-out dates?
Point being, I think the Rangers just erred on the side of caution, hanging onto Benson on the chance that they caught lightning in a bottle somehow, knowing that Feldman wasn’t going anywhere. They knew they could always cut Benson loose and plug in Feldman, so I’m not sure the decision making ability for pitching was quite as batshit crazy as is made out to be in today’s story.
I still think
it had a lot to do with our craptastic depth for starting (witness Nippert not getting out of the fourth inning), and trying to have a few more options throughout the year.
AJM’s carrying on over Benson’s 2 starts is about as stupid as some of his previous crusades about Popup Barajas followed by his lovefest for the inferior Laird. Its just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
And, other than duration, that would be different than the Nippert angst how???
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
See
Now you are just baiting me. I’m going to ignore it.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 17, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
You do get worked up
about the oddest stuff.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Oh I'm not baiting you.
I just think it’s an extreme overreaction to hanging on to Benson is all, and I think there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for it (at the time) that does not amount to damnation of all front office’s decision making abilities with regard of where to plug dudes in to the staff.
by FuturePants on Jul 17, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
No, Cahill is baiting me
It has been 4 days without baseball and he’s bored, so he’s trying to get me riled up about Laird and Popup.
But it isn’t going to work.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 17, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Why don't you give us a rant about OM5T or something?
Baseball doesn’t start up until 7!
by FuturePants on Jul 17, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Laird and Popup
are the all time great AJM meltdowns though. Endless killing of Popup. Endless jocking of Laird.
Popup as a Ranger? .253/.294/.444 .738 OPS 1209 PA
Laird as a Ranger? .253/.310/.380 .689 OPS 1614 PA
The best thing about Moscosco? We got rid of OMFT to get him!
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
To be fair to Adam
the argument to play Laird was that he had probably a 50% chance (or more) to be better than Popup, a 25% chance of being the same, and a 25% chance of turning out worse. Why settle for mediocrity when you have a guy who could be better? Obviously, in retrospect Laird’s worst case scenario manifested itself (and Buck looks genius for selectively playing him like he did). But at the time, AJM had a point.
Now, the incessant Sammy Sosa hatred that followed never made sense to me – it seemed like he let his Laird frustration spill over onto Jason Botts – a much less deserving recipient.
Go Rice Owls!
IIRC
Bensons opt out date was May 1st
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't believe so
I could be wrong on that though
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
His opt-out date was sometime in May
We didn’t have to add him when we did.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 17, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the real problem...
….was after he washed out as a starter, somehow thinking it was a good idea to hang on to him in the bullpen. That didn’t really make sense to me.
by FuturePants on Jul 17, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
IIRC,
the reasoning was to try and help the bullpen, which was VERY weak(before the O’Day/Grilli pickups), not necessarily that Benson was better than Feldman.
They were hoping Benson could be serviceable in the 5th spot, and Felman would strengthen a weak area. Good idea, just didn’t work in either area.
Never argue with a fool. Onlookers might not be able to tell you apart.
Why is Murphy working out at 1B?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
probably so
they have another option other than Blalock and Jones.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
It's another way to get him in the lineup without losing Byrd or Cruz.
Vs Righties I’d expect..
Murphy at 1B
Blalock at DH
Vs Lefties I’d expect
Blalock at 1B
Jones at DH
Not sure
why they wouldn’t use Murphy versus Lefties. Its not like Hanks any great shakes versus lefties.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Wash's gut told him
That Blalock would figure it out against lefties while Murph won’t.
That’s why.
Why wouldn't you just DH Murphy?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
The only reason
to have Murphy at first is that you either want to trade or sit Blalock. Both profile similarly with inabilities to hit lefties.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
OT -- SBN is banking
Jim Bankoff–the well-regarded former AOL exec who runs an online sports news network called SB Nation–has nabbed $7 million in funding from investors to grow the company, including Comcast Interactive Capital, said sources.
There was also a Securities and Exchange Commission document filed on the transaction today, under the name Sportsblogs Inc., which you can see here.
The SEC filing noted that the money invested was $7.95 million. But sources said that the nearly million-dollar difference is for giving cash to early employees and founders and will not be used to fund SB Nation.
People familiar with the situation said SB Nation’s post-investment valuation, after this second round, will be $30 million and also include previous investors, such as Accel Partners and Allen & Co.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Sounds like AJM's adding a wing to the house...
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 17, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
You know
he is gonna get major cheddar out of it.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
You think they will give the Rev anything?
lol
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
There you go again
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
he has a way with words
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 17, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know what though,
even after you make $10 million, like Adam’s gonna make, and you pay your agent, and taxes, and get a nice house and a nice car, all you got left is your dick in your hand.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Learn from the master
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-14-2009/moment-of-zen—-lenny-dykstra-s-debts
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I see AJM as more of a "side room" kinda guy...
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Halladay value
over at Beyond the Boxscore they feel Halladay is only worth a top 10 hitting prospect. They estimate Roy’s net trade value to be $23M.
Top 10 hitting prospects $36.5M
Top 11-25 hitters $25.1
Top 26-50 hitters $23.4
Top 51-75 hitters $14.2
Top 76-100 hitters $12.5
Top 10 pitching prospects $15.2
Top 11-25 pitchers $15.9
Top 26-50 pitchers $15.9
Top 51-75 pitchers $12.1
Top 76-100 pitchers $9.8
Grade B pitchers (as graded by Sickels) $7.3
Grade B hitters $5.5
Grade C pitchers 22 or younger $2.1
Grade C pitchers 23 or older $1.5
Grade C hitters 22 or younger $0.7
Grade C hitters 23 or older $0.5
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
so your saying
we could just trade 16 grade C pitchers who are 23 or older for him
im ALL OVER IT
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
He's worth more than that
If half a season of CC gets you LaPorta, the Blue Jays would be dumb to trade Halladay for anything less than that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
LaPorta
he’s a great bat, but he has 0 positional flexibility. I’m not sure if he’s all that more valuable than Martin Perez
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
0?
the guy can play 2 positions at the MLB level — RF, 1B
the problem is that cleveland doesnt have a bad OF, and are pretty set already at 1B with vic martinez + garko + whoever else they play there and at DH with hafner
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
LaPorta
can play RF like Mitch Moreland can play RF. He’s positionally challenged.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
but he plays a better RF than
montero plays C
gamel plays 3B
hes a guy that can stick in the OF/play there
give him SOMe credit
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say he can't stand out there
and run slowly after flyballs. He’s just not a + defender there. Therefore, he is positionally challenged.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
LaPorta he’s a great bat, but he has 0 positional flexibility
see what you mean now, thougthy ou meant he couldnt play but 1 position
my bad
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Or Smoak
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought
Smoak was good defensively at 1B.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
The original comment was LaPorta's "positional flexibility"
I was comparing Smoak to LaPorta, not Botts.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
In defense of the Benson over Feldman move
Our bullpen sucked, and Feldman hadn’t tried it since his new arm slot (i dont think). I personally thought if he could be shut down in the bullpen, we really needed him for the 7th. Also, Benson had great starts in ST. Just sayin… If Feldman could have been a 1.5 era bullpen guy, that move wouldn’t have looked quite so bad (and we would have won a few more games in April, i think)
That's why I couldn't get worked up over it..
A capable arm in the pen was more critical at that point than the 5th starter..
of course, it’s a good thing Feldman turned out to NOT be a capable bullpen arm, as that led to him being arguably our most impressive starter, plus the acquisition of D’Day.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Yep
They tried it and undid it after 2 starts. Tough to see all the hubbub.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Again, just like the Nippert experiment...
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
The problem with the Nippert experiment
is that you are in the middle of the season and fighting for a playoff spot. I don’t know why they thought he would be any different than what he has shown in the past.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Maybe they were hoping
He would show something so they could throw him into a trade?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Nippert's not gonna bring back anything useful.
The Rangers just really seem to be looking for somebody who will push Holland back to the bullpen. Don’t know why they thought Nippert could be that guy, but that seems to be the thought process.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
I agree Nip by himself would bring back nothing
But as a throw in in another deal centered around another player maybe.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
meh he could bring back a guy like melo
basicaly another guy the team has under control for longer had he done well
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Nippert's AAA line this year "could" lead one to beleive he had improved...
Fool’s gold, it appears, but I just can’t see all the angst over it.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Also, on the "Fighting for a playoff spot" thing...
Was Nippert all that much more of a giveup than what Holland had shown as a starter?? I think the “we’re competing, how could we start Nippert over Holland” complaint just doesn’t hold any water.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Since Holland is a better pitcher than Nippert
and is a part of the future, I have no problem with the Rangers starting Derek.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Don't get me wrong; I have no problem with starting him either..
It’s the angst, which I find somewhat hypocritical in light of the Feldman/Benson comments, over Nippert getting one too many starts.
We’ve spent years throwing guys to the wolves, seeing them get rocked the first time out, and overreacting. And all this dustup over one turn for the 5th starter.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Considering
2 of Hollands last 3 starts were pretty good, and Nippert couldn’t get out of the 4th inning, yeah, I’d say it was a giveup of the Sunday start.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
From BtB: Neftali Feliz's flight paths from the Futures Game
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
89 mph change up
LOL
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
i dont know how great of a curve he has to throw
when your differences are
10 MPH btwn FB and CH
10 MPH btwn CH and CB
20 MPH btwn FB and CB
wow.
a 20 MPH difference has to be among the top 10 or so pitches in the game, right?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
the problem Felix might have
with his CH is that it is right around the speed of the avg ML FB. Hopefully he has some good movement on it becuase he is going to “speed up” bats when he throws it.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I was just about to post that some hitters won't even be able to catch up to his change let alone his fastball.
I agree, though, the change would be a better tool if he had maybe 5-mph greater difference in speed between the change and fastball.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
see to me its more of a difference btwn the pitches
15 MPH is a lot (lets see how much)
DRH velo difference:
FB: 83.7
SL: 74.7
CT: 82.1
CB: 66.4
CH: 69.1
now obv some of those CH and CH are going to be mis classified so avg em and say its 68, thats still just a 15 mph differenct btwn FB and CH
top 5 CH velocity:
josh johnson: 87.5
max scherzer: 84.5
johnny cueto: 84.5
liriano: 84.6
jair jurrens: 82.5
johan santana: 81.2
fwiw johnson’s other avg velo:
FB: 84.0
SL: 86.2
CH: 87.5
equally fwiw top 5 FB velo:
ubaldo jimines: 95.7
justin verlander: 95.5
josh johsnon: 95.0
edwin jackson: 94.4
(thats just qualified — they also have these guys so far this year on the tigers:
zumaya: 99.4 (highest in baseball)
ryan perry: 95.5
fernando rodney: 95.4)
of the guys with the 5 fastest FB (that are qualified – are starters ) here are there differences:
jiminez: 95.7 FB — 76.4 CB (but only thrown 6% of time) — 19.3 difference
verlander: 95.5 FB, 80.5 CB — 15 MPH difference
josh johnson: 95.0 FB, 86.2 SL — 8.8 MPH
edwin jackson: 95 FB, 80.4 CB (only thrown 3.3% of time, probably his CH which is clocked at 85.4) — but even then its 14.6 MPH
beckett: 94.3 FB, 77.4 CB — 17 MPH difference
Felix: 94.2 FB, 82.6 CH — 11.6 MPH difference
brad penny: 93.7 FB, 78.1 CB — 15.6 difference
greinke: 93.7 MPH FB, 74.3 CB — 19.1 difference
oswalt: 93.3 FB, 72.3 CH — 21 difference
guthrie: 20 MPH difference
padilla: 91.7 FB, 68.5 CB (eephus? throw 8.5% of time) — 23.2 difference
so the guys with 19+ mph difference:
ubaldo jiminez – 19.3
grinke – 19.1
oswalt – 21
guthrie – 20
winner: padilla – 23.2
those are the only guys in the top 35 FB velos (anyone who throws over 91.3) with 19+ MPH differences
now, lets say happy happy isnt going to avg 98.5 FB and 80 CB, but say its 95.5 FB (verlander) and say 83 CB, tahts still a difference of 12.5 which isnt shabby at all.
lets say it ends up at 97 MPH and 81 MPH (best case?) — 16 MPH difference.
if he averages that same 20 MPH difference he had in the future game, he will have the second highest pitch speed differential in baseball…which is pretty excellent
(sorry for it being so drawn out)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Johan Santana
his subtraction between FB and CH is 18 mph
oops
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see how this guy isn't going to be a starter
and I don’t see how he’s not going to be as good as Verlander within a couple of years, MAYBE immediately
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
how much cheaper would it be to trade for Cliff Lee instead of Halladay?
For some reason I have it in my mind that the difference in trading cost would be less than the difference in performance.
IOW, I think Lee might be a better value. I think this team with Lee could still go places in the playoffs and it probably wouldn’t cost Smoak plus.
Would you go Feliz for Lee straight up? Would Cle?
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Lee over Halladay
I’m in favor of it.
I’d rather give them the open grab bag of Kiker/Ross/Vallejo/Davis/Font/Main/Hunter et al. and let them pick out a few pieces rather than just Feliz.
by brettgardner on Jul 17, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
i wouldnt mind trading any of those guys
other than font :)
i wonder how much value someone like lemon has in trade (much/if any vs vallejo)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I think that’s the problem in all of these discussions—we don’t want to give up any of the top guys but of course that’s what other teams want in return.
I’d consider Feliz/Smoak for some pitchers, but not Halladay or Lee.
by brettgardner on Jul 17, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Greinke and Lincecum would convince me.
by brettgardner on Jul 17, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
No way
I’d give them Feliz +whatever and be happy to do it.
by brettgardner on Jul 17, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
You are not going to get Greinke or Lincecum straight up for Feliz
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Heh, no kidding
If you really think that you’re either greatly undervaluing Grink and Timmy or you’re greatly overvaluing Feliz.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
That's like saying Jessica Alba and Marisa Miller would convince you not to take on a life of celabacy.
DUH, but not gonna happen.
I think he means in all realistic scenarios.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
Or maybe not.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
to me
feliz > holland
id MUCH rather move holland any day of the week
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Lee
From what I remember reading the Indians are looking at about the same kinda offer, 3 top prospects.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
FWIW, Buster Olney on ESPN radio this morning
suggested that the Indians have no interest in trading Lee, and that Pavano was more likely to be dealt.
Also, someone here on LSB suggested yesterday that Pavano might be a pretty good pitcher if he had the Rangers’ D behind him based on what his ERA/FIP difference is.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 17, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
doesnt surprise me
The rumblings of what return they would want was a few months ago, but it never really sounded like they wanted to deal him
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Pavano
I wouldn’t mind kicking the tires on a Pavano deal…
According to traditional metrics he’s been horrible, but he’s also been playing in front of the worst defense in the AL.
Because of that he would be pretty cheap to acquire, and there’s a hint that in front of a good defense, he could really flourish.
Plus he would only be for a 1/2 year, so he’d be cheaper in prospects in that sense, too.
Say, trade Max Ramirez back to them for Pavano? :D
R
Flyer for Flyer.
They took a gamble on Povano when no one else seemed to want him, that should be able to pull an A or A- level pitching prospect with a long way to go, you think? Max is too much, imo.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Oh
I wasn’t looking to make a serious case for trading Max. Just liking the juxtoposition from 2 years back when the Indians were in a pennant chase vs. us looking to cash in on our trade pieces, and finding at least on our side the positions reversed.
You’re probably right, it’ll probably be easier to pry Pavano from the Indians.
R
I think Pavano would be worth getting
He could replace one of our back-end starters and be an improvement.
I have no idea what it would take to get him, but I doubt it would take a ton.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 17, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't.
Lee is just way too inconsistent. I wouldn’t mind getting him but not for any of our top tier prospects. Font and Kiker, perhaps.
FIRE DAVE ANDERSON!
by JimCrankshaft on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate Cliff Lee
apologies to Dirkatron
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 17, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Again...
I don’t see the Rangers getting Halladay because of salary issues.
But I’ll play along and say the were able to unload Padilla and Blalock somehow as well.
There are still certain guys that are untouchable imo. Holland, Feliz, Andrus, Smoak, and Perez.
I would offer something like Davis, Salty/TT, Beavan/Main, Kiker/Ross, Hunter/Harrison. If the Jays wouldn’t accept a package like that (and I don’t think they would) then I hang up the phone.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I've seen a lot of Hunter/harrisons in the trade proposals lately
I think they are far from equivalent value.
You tell your trade partner one of Hunter or Harrisson, they choose Hunter 30 times out of 30 right now, no?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
Yes
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 17, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt it
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Rangers, Halladay and Hicks
We all know Doc has a no trade clause so if TR is right and the Rangers are talking to the Jays about Halladay would indicate that the Rangers are on the list he would be ok with going to and that Hicks has told JD if there is a match the money would be there.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Damn, that is the king of all run-on sentences right there.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I don't think that means that at all
baseball is full of trades where players were discussed, trades were finalized, and they went to the player and he said no.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
True but
It is said that Halladay told the Jays what teams would be acceptable. Being this close to the dead-line it would be stupid for the Jays to waste their time with a team they know he will say no to. IMO Now in the offseason they might try to engage teams hoping the player will reconsider since time is on their side.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
It would be worth it to the Jays
if everyone thinks Texas is in the bidding.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
exactly.... we're probably getting the Clemens treatment here...
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
That is different
Clemens told the Rangers he wanted to play here knowing he was going to the Yankees. Clemens never wanted to play here.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
My point is that we're getting used to up the ante...
Since we don’t know if Halladay wants to even come here, it might not be ANY difference.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Well we will agree to disagree
Do I think Halladay will be a Ranger in a few weeks? No but atleast they are talking and Hicks hasn’t told JD that he can’t afford it. I would think Hicks would have told JD not to waste his time if he couldn’t afford it.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Maybe
I just don’t think JD would play along if he thought the Jays were using them. This is not like the Boston, Florida, Texas rumors of a few years ago.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
why JD would play along
The Angels are apparently in on the bidding, so there is good reason for Texas to try and up the price in prospects as high as possible.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Ok so the Halos over pay
Yes they blow their farm but they have Halladay for the next year and a half. Then the Angels get the inside track of resigning him. Tell me again how this helps the Rangers?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
think
You don’t want the Rangers to trade any of our top prospects, but you don’t see any benefit to the Rangers if our rival trades away all of their top prospects?
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
They get halladay
How many more years is it before the Rangers catch up with them? I don’t want any team in our division getting him. The Angels system doesn’t scare me.
I know the Rangers will have to give go get. In fact if you look up top I proposed a Davis, Holland for Halladay and even a Smoak, Ross for Halladay. Point is the Rangers have a better farm than the Angels. Even with a trade our system will still be better then theirs.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
You lost me bigtime there..
How does our being in the mix hurt us?
Assuming that the Angels ARE in the mix and make the best bid, which we can’t control unless WE make the best bid, isn’t it our best interest to see that their bid is as high as possible?
The only way your point makes sense to me is if the Angels are only in the mix BECAUSE we are.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
cough - Peavy - cough
boy are the White Sox glad that didn’t go through, now that Peavy is likely out for the year.
Go Rice Owls!
As I have said I understand that
That was early in the year. SD is stupid everyone knew Peavy didn’t want to go to an AL team outside of Boston I think. Why even bother if they knew Peavy would say no?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Unless the Jays have interest in Nelson Cruz, the Rangers' position of strength in regards to
hitting prospects does not line up well with what is reported to be the Jays’ interest.
It’s hard to let Smoak go when both the DH and 1B positions will need to be filled next year. Unless the organization believes Moreland has a good chance of developing into a DH by the end of next year going into the following year, it’s a big financial gamble to let one of CD or Smoak walk away.
I’m much more OK with trading Perez than Smoak, but it appears from the rumors the Jays aren’t all that interested in a package built with pitchers alone.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I always am amused
by folks who treat CD and Smoak somewhat interchangeably.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
+1
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
Hehe
I’ll really amused if Toronto treats them interchangeably.
I’d consider trading Davis for a nice bullpen arm. I’d consider trading Smoak for Tim Lincecum. I bet Lincecum would make a nice bullpen arm, but that’s about where the similarities end.
Go Rice Owls!
If the Rangers were able to make a deal
similar to the one that Jamey proposed, and they took Davis as their column A guy, I’d be ecstatic.
Davis’ 3.5:1 K:BB ratio in the minors just kind of scares me silly. I’d definitely rather see strike zone judgement and a little less power out of a prospect. I have faith in power growing with age, not so much strike zone judgement.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I didn't mean to imply they are of considerable trade value, just that there are two positions opening up
next year and two power hitting prospects. If one doesn’t pan out (say CD), that means a FA would need to be brought in. If Smoak were traded away, then two FA would need to be added.
Mostly my comment was about depth of prospects. It’s fairly shallow in the Rangers system at 1B/DH compare to OF. The Rangers can’t replace Cruz’s power, but they wouldn’t necessarily have to get a FA OF if they trade Cruz. If the Jays want to avoid an OF prospect or if they are unwilling to take a pitching-only package, the Rangers just don’t match up well, because a trade of Smoak could end up being a cost multiplier — they’d might have to pay Halladay AND a FA 1B.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I think 1B/DH isn't bad
we basicly have Smoak, CD, Max, and Moreland, right? Perhaps you need to pick up a 1B/DH for one year, but often you can find an NRI/cheap pickup to cover one year.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
We're right. It depends what folks think about Moreland.
If Smoak isn’t here, clearly Max gets a shot at DH next year. Moreland would be the internal backup plan should either of CD or Max suck next year. If they aren’t comfortable with those internal options, they have to consider whether they can afford to get a reasonable hitter on the FA market. I’m not sure an NRI is really the type of piece they want if they intend to be contenders.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
So, then the question is
is Halladay plus Moreland/Davis/Max with no Smoak better than having Smoak and those guys without Halladay?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The more I think about it, the more I think the OF depth means the Rangers shouldn't worry all that much about trading Smoak.
Move Hamilton into DH, and that problem is solved. The OF would consist of Cruz, Borbon, Murphy/Boggs. The question is whether CD can stick at 1B.
To answer your question, I think Halladay plus those guys is a better bet to make the playoff this year and next than Smoak and those guys. And, trading Smoak may not be as much of a potential cost multiplier as I had originally thought.
I would still rather have a pitcher-only package than trade Smoak. It would have to have one of Holland or Feliz as the main piece, of course. Either one is fine by me. If I had to choose, I’d ship out Feliz, because I think Holland is on course to contribute in the rotation while Halladay is here. The counter argument is that Feliz could be a killer closer, giving the Rangers both an Ace and a Fireman, critical components of successful playoff teams, over the time that Halladay is here.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
If the Rangers feel Feliz's ceiling
is that of a closer, then they need to trade him.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
True.
I’m only talking about the 1.5 years that Halladay would be on the team. He could return to the rotation after Halladay leaves. I think it is unlikely that he could contribute much in the rotation this year or next if he’s going to spend the rest of this year as a reliever.
In fact, I’m beginning to convince myself that I would rather trade Holland-Moreland-Perez, than Smoak-Kiker-Perez in terms of the team’s composition for the rest of this year and next. I’m not saying that’s what I would offer. I’m only throwing those trios out there, because it is consistent with the Smoak + two pitchers package that is rumored as the asking price.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
I think Feliz will be in the
Rangers rotation by May next year: Millwood, Feldman, Holland, Feliz, ???
there are some reports out there that are saying the Rangers think Feliz’s future is as a closer. I think they are adding one plus one and coming up with 3. The Rangers are going to use him in the bullpen this year. They won’t have him make any starts. But, JD has said that they plan to give him the opprotunity to start next year.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I agree that the Rangers view Feliz as a starter long term.
If the Rangers don’t trade for Halladay (or some other arm this offseason), I find your May 2010 rotation to be highly likely.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
Agreed
With Harrison or Bmac in the 5 hole
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
I would really like for Tommy Hunter to disagree with that statement.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Unlesss Feliz gets a considerable look up here this year...
no way in hell he’s in the rotation next May. Look at how they are handling Holland this year, and he is generally considered more fleshed out than Feliz.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
how will both positions be filled?
overbay will be gone after next year
4 years/$24M (2007-10)
re-signed 1/07 (avoided arbitration)
$3.8M signing bonus
07:$0.4M, 08:$5.8M, 09:$7M, 10:$7M
and if they are not willing to trade FOR smoak because of overbay…they have a whole other set of problems
DH — one of their 4 OF (lind or snider most liekly) but if they cant find a place for smoak b/c of overbay….
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
curious...
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Smoak (22 y/o)
AA 50 227 183 30 60 10 0 6 29 0 0 39 35 .328 .449 .481 .930
Moreland (23 y/o)
AA 46 206 186 37 61 11 2 4 34 1 1 17 24 .328 .383 .473 .857
(stats from this year…)
Is anybody going to be really that broken up if we have to include Smoak in a Halladay deal…leaving out Holland, Feliz, and Perez???
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic" - Charles Darwin, you know who he is...
I want both Smoak
and Moreland in a Rangers lineup when they are ready. Consistency and plate discipline.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Its the walk rate
and age that makes Smoak head and shoulders better. I think we see what the lack of walk rate is doing to this boom and bust offense.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
+ smoak's GG caliber defense
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
smoak >> moreland
and its not really that close
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 17, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Batting Stance Guy
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/columnists/ray_buck/story/1491580.html
This once good-hearted dabbler in non-profit ventures now has a good-paying gig after signing a contract with Fox Sports Net to provide exclusive content to its regional baseball markets. He makes his debut tonight with a tailor-made video impression for the 6:30 p.m. Rangers pregame viewers.
by GregoryM on Jul 17, 2009 2:01 PM CDT reply actions
Rangers have evidently replaced the IF they just replaced. (AFLAC!)
Ian said something to the effect of "Every time a batter reached 2nd base, they asked me “What’s up with this infield?”, and I just said I don’t know…."
Too funny to hear him say it.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
interesting - playoff stuff
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/16/931675/btb-playoff-odds-july-16th
found this today
don’t know where to post it here or if it has been covered
Josh & Tom on BaDD Radio soon.
And Nolan at 5:50pm..
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
BaD Radio
I gotta say, I’m kind of enjoying them in the afternoon drive slot.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Personally, I'm kinda digging the current lineup
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
tonight's line up
1. Ian Kinsler, 2B
2. Michael Young, 3B
3. Josh Hamilton, CF
4. Andruw Jones, DH
5. Hank Blalock, 1B
6. Marlon Byrd, LF
7. Nelson Cruz, RF
8. Taylor Teagarden, C
9. Elvis Andrus, SS
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
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