49-41
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 19, 2009 11:00 PM CDT
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PrintI don't know the last time I felt so flat after a walk-off win.
Hell of a job by the bullpen.
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I feel good.
I’m calling a sweep of the Red Sox.
Laugh now….Cheer later.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
On the bright side, Murph looked good.
Is it strange I have to look for the bright side of a walkoff extra innings win?
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 19, 2009 11:02 PM CDT reply actions
A wise man once said when facing a knuckleballer...
If it’s high, let it fly.
Low, let it go.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
He's a really good guy. And he's taken a modicum of talent and carved out a bit of a major league career.
Ephesians 3:20-21...and I can only imagine
Good to know I'm not the only one feeling that way.
Somehow, this game doesn’t feel quite like a win. Doesn’t feel like a loss, either, but…
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
Stop thinking, Snark
It doesn’t really matter what it “feels” like.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 19, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
People, it’s a WIN. And an exciting one at that. Freaking enjoy it now, worry about “what it means” and “oh no, the trend is terrible” in the morning.
We follow baseball because it’s fun…remember?
/rant
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
by ghtd36 on Jul 19, 2009 11:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That game was fun and exciting?
The walk-off was certainly fun and exciting. I don’t know about the game as a whole.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
It wasn't THAT bad of a game. Geez we gave up 3 runs.
If everyone thinks our offense sucks now then why do they still expect it to score 8 runs a game or whatever.
the preceding post was a great success.
A lot of that game was simply not fun and exciting to watch.
There wasn’t a lot of well-played baseball, but there was a lot of baseball played. I’m not trying to read anything into it more than that, and I’m not expecting the offense to score 8 runs every night ~ I just enjoy watching well-played baseball.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
Absolupely.
There is serious flaw in the Rangers Bataan Death March logic.
So you think the Rangers’ offense is just awful and disappoting and heartbreaking. Fine; quit expecting them to score in the double digits every night.
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
by ghtd36 on Jul 19, 2009 11:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Furthaluvva Pete O'Brien.
If that game had been a 2-1, 16-inning masterpiece, full of great pitching and defense and solid ABs, it would, in my opinion, have been fun and exciting, and I would’ve enjoyed it thoroughly. It wasn’t a well-played game, though. It was good to see the bullpen pitch well, but it still wasn’t a fun and exciting game.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
i think our pitching from the bullpen
was good enough to watch all night long
by kevinkinsler on Jul 19, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Wilson was terrific. That I could've watched all night long.
The Twins offense, I’m happy I only have to see when the Rangers are playing them.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
Snark
when you have dug a hole this big…
the best thing to do is drop the shovel, ie. shut the fuck up.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 19, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
"quit expecting them to score in the double digits every night."
I think my “expectation” or “hope” or whatever it is is that they score more runs than they give up.
I can’t realistically expect this team gives up fewer than 4 runs in a game. When they do, yay!, but it won’t happen all that often. 4 runs is an optimistic expected value.
So I expect that this team will score 5 runs a game offensively. That way they will win more than they lose. Because this team isn’t going to win when they score 3 runs a game very often. Few teams can reliably.
I count 23 games since June 1 where the team has scored 4 runs or fewer. They are 4-19 in those games (forgive me if I’m off by 1 or 2). Twice they scored less than 5 in 9 innings, but the pitching was good enough to allow them to win it in extras.
There, I made an argument for why the offense sucks horrifically right now without saying I expect them to score 10 runs a game.
Go Rice Owls!
I just want to be able to feel like there's a chance we'll come back when we're down by more than 2 runs again.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
So much of the problem is this team's obp (.316)
augmented by the fact that both Cruz & Byrd are better v RH pitching than LH pitching.
What we need is an on base machine v all pitchers who specializes in punishing LH pitching.
This team is going to have difficulty keeping their head above .500 with a .316 obp.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
Yep
Teams with low OBPs will have trouble being consistent. If they have high SLGs, they’ll occasionally rip off some 10 run games (and I think the Rangers 8/9/10-run frequencies are just fine), but SLG is inherently a volatile stat to build around.
Go Rice Owls!
Did anybody else...
see the person that was being pulled back up into the stands as Ian ran around the bases?
This game was like finding out the girl you like has a date with a total jackass friend of a friend when you call her up to ask her out...
but after the date ends short she calls you up and asks you if you want to hang out only once you get there she tells you she has work in the morning and asks you to leave after one episode of Scrubs.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:04 PM CDT reply actions
Holy shit.
That’s exactly what this game was like.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
Bullpen
major bright spot lately, underrated and underappreciated. Wilson was very good tonight.
A lot of the game was not that fun to watch, but I could watch CJ’s innings again, he was dealing.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
The blackened storm that was my heart...
cracked a smile when CJ Wilson threw the baseball tonight.
He made the impossible dreams happen.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
That was also a fun and exciting bit, for sure.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
I keep going back to the sac fly by Elvis.
Helluva job of situational hitting.
It is a great thing to know the season for speech and the season for silence.
--Seneca
Yup the bullpen was awesome
CJ is really throwing well right now. Makes you wonder how he was ever so bad last year.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
CJ was hurt in 2008
This year he’s healthy.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I still swear to Odin...
that he was injured early on.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Still wondering why........
…….the genius manager didn’t use a pinch-runner for Salty after he singled. If you don’t want to use Vizquel there, then use Cruz.
I know it didn’t end up costing the team, but stupid shit like that is what drives me crazy about Wash.
taking out your catcher for a pinch runner when he's not all that slow to begin with?
just stop talking now
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
So Cruz and/or Omar aren't faster than Salty?
Salty had caught 12 innings so far in the game, and according to the Longhorns homers, Teagarden is the best receiver of pitches in the history of organized baseball. So putting in Cruz or Vizquel to run for any catcher other than Craig Biggio, Joe Mauer, or Ivan Rodriguez seems like a no-brainer to me. Suppose Elvis had bunted the ball towards the mound, you need as much speed as possible going to 2nd. Suppose Kinsler had pulled a line drive single to LF, you’d want as much speed as possible on 2nd base to beat the throw home.
But Wash agrees with you. That’s good company you’re keeping.
pretty much every manager
in baseball will keep the backup on the bench the entire game
go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com
by studcrackers on Jul 19, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought Cruz was out
with a hairline fracture in his finger?
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 19, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Or
because it’s the best thing for his long-term development…
That's why they call them business sox
I would hope the meltdown
After giving up a HR to a #9 hitter is never repeated. Walks, HBP, solid singles all in a row. Of course that may be an “eventual” after throwing too many pitches per batter, and starting some off with 2-0 counts.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jul 20, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
now we get to....
watch Kinsler’s stupid ass softball approach for the next 2 weeks.
He thinks he can yank every pitch down the leftfield line for a homerun.
by death of the cool on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe the slump humbled him...
…if he was even doing that to begin with.
by Black Francis on Jul 19, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait wait...
..you’re complaining about Kinsler!?!
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 19, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Quote from Ian via Dave Barnett
“The pitching knows we can score runs at any time.”
I bursted out loud laughing. And I also have to say that when he hit it, I have to be honest, I said F you Ian and didn’t even cheer.
"Clearly, the season is over. Fire Daniels, fire Washington, fire Maddux, burn down TBIA." - AJM
by aggierangerfan00 on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions
Misquoted.
He meant “The pitching knows we can score runs when we get lucky.”
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Jul 19, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
It's like we're all mad drunks...
It’s hilarious. When the Rangers finally get to the playoffs, we as a community, will all morph into those drunks that were mad when they first got drunk but then started apologizing for everything and telling everyone around how much they love them.
“I love you aggierangerfan00. I do. I’m sorry man, I love you so much. You’re always here man…I love you.”
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm so confused.
Please explain?
"Clearly, the season is over. Fire Daniels, fire Washington, fire Maddux, burn down TBIA." - AJM
by aggierangerfan00 on Jul 19, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
We're just a...
surly bunch recently because unlike popular opinion, we obsess over the Texas Rangers and hate seeing them do poorly and when they finally win something meaningful again, it’ll be a mushy love fest up in here.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right
particularly with the “something meaningful” part. Because, in reality, we really didn’t see much offensive progress tonight. The bullpen was terrific, but the offensive issues continued.
I feel the same way about giving a crap whether or not Los Angeles or Seattle are winning right now, because honestly, it’s not gonna matter whether or not Seattle and LA are winning in September when we’re out of the race. I don’t buy “important games” until Mid-September.
"Clearly, the season is over. Fire Daniels, fire Washington, fire Maddux, burn down TBIA." - AJM
by aggierangerfan00 on Jul 19, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Its not like hes trying to hit for power and then hitting 3 HRs like Jerry Hairston Jr.
Its late July and hes on pace for 40 HRs. If he was walking a little more to maintain a good obp without a high average I wouldn’t care.
And he does have a .241 obp.. his approach right now doesn’t promote a high babip but thats still unreasonably low.
the preceding post was a great success.
I agree
with your thought…… I just don’t think he should be hitting leadoff.
Adam Lambert is indeed a rock god,so suck it.
by red shoe ranger on Jul 20, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Ian with 2 HRs means he will keep swinging for the fences. Nippert had a good outing so someone will continue to think he is a good pitcher. Murphy is the Rangers hottest hitter so Wash will probably sit him tomorrow.
I think they end up taking 2 of 3 from Boston.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
He'll keep playing him versus lefties.
"Clearly, the season is over. Fire Daniels, fire Washington, fire Maddux, burn down TBIA." - AJM
by aggierangerfan00 on Jul 19, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
And RangerMad is bitter and defeated
so we have to keep reading posts like this.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Damn it feels good to be a gangsta...
Ron Washington...giving hope everywhere to the kids who eat lead paint chips of being a big league manager when they grow up since 2007.
This is not a game of who the fuck are you...
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
oh yeah!
never any doubt
Michael Young > Steve Garvey.
Nelson Cruz >Greg Nettles.
Elvis Andrus > Willie McGee.
Ian Kinsler > Darryl Strawberry.
i dunno, that's just really random.
One positive thing about this win...
is I can go back to indeed accepting that Rangers baseball is actually happening. When the Rangers lose, I cannot and will not concede that the games actually existed. The losses all get permanently blocked from my mind and I ignore ESPN, MLB Net, newspapers, and blog posts. I can revel again in winning and that’s nice.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions
same hur
Although I refuse to watch ESPN or MLB net till we’re in first or a game behind. I don’t want to hear them say we don’t have a chance, or we’re falling off.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
Well...
I should add that I don’t watch ESPN because it sucks.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 19, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
but the ESPY's!
and you can’t miss the “Who’s NOW” tournament!!!
by kevinkinsler on Jul 19, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
It is what it is!
And it is a fucking win! So you take it and enjoy it until tomorrow!
Alma para conquistarte, corazón para quererte, y vida para vivirla junto a ti.
kinsler's line tonight
reminds me of chris davis
Michael Young > Steve Garvey.
Nelson Cruz >Greg Nettles.
Elvis Andrus > Willie McGee.
Ian Kinsler > Darryl Strawberry.
i dunno, that's just really random.
Hero to goat to hero again.
After those first swings against Dickey, I didn’t think he had a chance. Glad I was wrong…
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
wasnt the
pitch Ian hit out a “fastball” It didn’t look like a knuckle to me? Although I had the game tivo’d and was watching theat-bat at 2:30am this morning so who know how well I was seeing things.
Dickey made a huge mistake with that pitch. whatever it was. Ian looked ripe for the taking in that AB.
Adam Lambert is indeed a rock god,so suck it.
by red shoe ranger on Jul 20, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I was think the same thing
It looked like he was trying to sneak a FB by him. Horrible location by Dickey. Never, ever throw a FB up to Kinsler. Actually, never throw a FB to Ian.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I don't give a flying fuck about how we win our games..
In the words of crazy Al Davis—“Just Win Baby!”
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 19, 2009 11:51 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
So if this means Ian keeps swinging for the fences...
maybe it means he hits 2 HR’s/game. I know, pretty weak.
Ephesians 3:20-21...and I can only imagine
well,
he didn’t hit 2 HR’s per nine innings
by kevinkinsler on Jul 20, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Jamey's predicting Kinsler will go on a tear now.
Something about his swing mechanics on the walk-off.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
I think the point was more optimistic than predictive.
by brettgardner on Jul 20, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Newberg's points are always more optimistic
than well thought out.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 20, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't see how those two are opposing.
by brettgardner on Jul 20, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
bg, If Jamey put a little more thought into the
bs he espouses about the Rangers, he wouldn’t be so optimistic.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 20, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
So
One can’t be thought-out and reach a different conclusion than you?
by brettgardner on Jul 20, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Upon occasion it's possible
I guess but do you really think all of Jamey’s conclusions about the Rangers are well thought out?
I think he writes in an optimistic, please—save-the-desperate-GM-save-his-job tone.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
I think there’s a distinction to be made within his emails.
He occasionally sends out his thoughts and reactions to a particular play or game, and those messages often contain emotional reactions that, while built upon a foundation of baseball knowledge that far exceeds my own, may not contain infallible logic, and understandably so.
On the other hand, his state of the team, big-picture (i.e. long) reports are universally well thought out, are excellently structured and well-written pieces that more often than not make a cogent point rooted in enough logic that it’s difficult to dispute. But there’s nothing wrong with disagreement, either. That’s perfectly fine. What is totally inaccurate, however, is to say that his points are “always optimistic rather than well-thought-out.”
This isn’t some intellectual sloth we’re talking about here.
by brettgardner on Jul 20, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
No question, Jamey is very smart
which makes me wonder how much con he has in himself when it comes to the Rangers.
Nobody that smart could be that stupid about the team or more specifically the owner (who he still adamantly defends) or it’s GM.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
by Josey Wales on Jul 20, 2009 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Me....wrong about
both Hicks & Donuts?
Don’t think so.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
doesn't bother me one bit
i always look forward to the report to get me excited
by kevinkinsler on Jul 20, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Still looks like a super uppercut
It’s funny, his uppercut swing for some reason reminds me of Cecil Fielder haha.
WTF?
The DMN blog says that Wash had never asked Salty to bunt before tonight, but saw him do it in BP and thought maybe he could do it in a game. What?!? Wash has been Salty’s manager for almost 2 full seasons and didn’t know whether or not he could bunt well enough to use in a game? Seriously? That can’t possibly be true.
by Topgun22 on Jul 20, 2009 12:09 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
he felt it in his gut today, right after he passed some undigested corn kernels
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
well, it worked so
twice, so obviously Wash saw right?? I mean, why is that such a big deal if he thought he could do it and then he did do it?
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
it was a nice win
but definitely not what i was hoping for. i just had the feeling after the first 2 games of the series we would come out strong and hopefully make a forceful statement to jump start this offense. Did not pan out at all, but a win is a win.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 20, 2009 12:38 AM CDT reply actions
F'n weird
They weren’t on TV tonight even though I have the ExtraInnings package. Not so much weird but irritating.
Now I’ve got the Rangers against the BoSox on top of Cheyenne Frontier Days. What a beating.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
it was a fun game to be at...
Once it got to extra innings. The first nine were tough to watch. I don’t know why the game just had that aura about it. But CJ woke the crowd back up and there was some electricity (static maybe) in the air leading up to Ian’s bomb. Bullpen was great, and CJ was awesome.
Also, at least 3 foul balls absolutely smoked people. Didn’t read through the GDT but one of them hit a little kid on the 1B side. I think it was off marlon’s bat but they were running the kid up the steps carrying him. Did they mention anything about that on tv? Looked bad from my angle. Hope the kid is alright.
"I tend to like young Latinos" -Jason Parks
by SaltyDawg on Jul 20, 2009 1:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
i think they mentioned
a fan “getting medical attention” but nothing else, and they didnt really show it. i think that was a foul ball on the 3b side though, cant remember.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 20, 2009 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
yea i meant 3B side not 1B side
And somebody sprinted this kid up the stairs. It wasn’t like usual where someone with the rangers comes over and they check it out and go from there. This was one of those where all the players looked over and everybody in the area was clearly concerned and someone grabbed the kid and booked it up the stairs. Could have been because it was a child which naturally brings more concern. Just hope whatever the situation was the kid is ok.
"I tend to like young Latinos" -Jason Parks
by SaltyDawg on Jul 20, 2009 1:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I saw that...
Agreed, it didn’t look great. Hope the kid’s okay.
There’s no crying in baseball but pedicures are fine! --- BigGuns
I was just going to say
we saw that, too.
"You got a guy coming up there who can’t hit water if he fell out of a boat." - Tom Grieve on Richie Sexson, 5.8.2008
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
"When it comes to Jeff Mathis, the story ends with us putting one in his earhole." - AJM, 7.7.08
Seems like Holland has been getting the shit squeezed out of him all year.
At this point I’m wondering if there’s something funky about the movement on his pitches from the umpires view or something.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
"After intense analysis, I have come to the conclusion that Neftali Feliz throws fucking hard." - John Sickels
IMHO his pitches have almost no movement
they look like they come in on a flat plane and the result is that batters have no issue getting hard contact on him
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
I think it is the camera angle
that makes it look like there is no movement.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
To me the ball seems to cut
Also, last night was he mixing in a sinker? 88-90 mph range? Whatever it was, had good drop to it
by Michael Cave on Jul 20, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
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