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A.L. West Roundtable -- Part I


Sky Kalkman of Beyond the Box Score moderated a roundtable discussion during the past week among the SBN A.L. West bloggers. 

There was a lot of good stuff, and you can read Part I of the Roundtable after the jump.  Part II will go up tomorrow.

Star-divide

 

Part 1: Trade Deadline

Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which teams, under which circumstances, will be buyers over the next three weeks? How about sellers? If there are any undecideds, what will be the tipping point?

Rev Halofan (Halos Heaven):: Angels are buyers. No tipping point, the bet is on the table. What do you got?

Jeff Sullivan (Lookout Landing): The M's look like tentative buyers, although a lot could change with these next two games against Texas. Also with all those other games that happen between now and whenever this round table gets published. It's weird trying to predict the future. It's actually kind of a unique position in that the M's could buy and sell. We've already seen them add guys like Langerhans and Hannahan while ditching Yuniesky Betancourt, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that they could subtract from the current Major League roster to plug a different hole.

Adam J. Morris (Lone Star Ball)::  There are all sort of mixed messages coming out of Texas, and I think the Rangers could be buyers or sellers, depending on the circumstances.  Tom Hicks' money problems have been well chronicled, and supposedly, the Rangers can't add significant salary without dumping some salary.  I think they would have liked to have moved Hank Blalock, which would have freed up some money to spend, but with Davis getting sent to the minors, they now need Blalock in the everyday lineup.  They could move Vicente Padilla, who makes $11 million this year and whose contract is up at the end of the season, in order to add some salary, but that would open a hole in the rotation.  The word is that Nolan Ryan is wanting to be more aggressive in making a move to add a veteran -- even if it means giving up more in the way of prospects in order to get a team to pay more of the acquired player's salary -- while Daniels is wanting to be more patient and hold off moving key prospects for now.

67MARQUEZ (Athletics Nation):: Billy Beane has managed to be both at this time of the year. Let's just say any move he makes would not shock me. Well, almost any move.

Sky Kalkman (Moderator): What holes will teams be looking to fill? What are the biggest holes they *SHOULD* be looking to fill but don't seem to be concerned about? Which holes from the first half can be plugged internally, perhaps by improvement the same player?

Rev Halofan (Halos Heaven):: If the Angels give Wood playing time and Vlad and Torii come back in August they need pitching. Relief Pitching and Starting Pitching and they do not have that internally. They think they have relief, though and I see them going after an overpaid third starter.

Jeff Sullivan (Lookout Landing): The team is looking for a shortstop, because Ronny :(edeno hasn't cut it. They should probably also think about exploring the reliever market, because the bullpen hasn't been very good at all, ERA be damned. I'd like to think that they could improve the bullpen internally, but I'm not sure. Finally having a lefty out there should help. Adrian Beltre should hit better than he did early in the year if he ever comes back, and his return would be a big boon should this team stay in the race for that long.

Adam J. Morris (Lone Star Ball)::  The Rangers need a righthanded hitting first baseman, but don't seem inclined to go that direction.  If they make a move, it was long suggested that they'd look for bullpen help, because they are in dire need of a righty power arm to pair with C.J. Wilson late in the game.  But with Neftali Feliz apparently primed to come up and pitch out of the bullpen, and El Duque being considered as a relief option, it appears that the Rangers are focusing more on a starting pitcher.

67MARQUEZ (Athletics Nation):: There was a gaping hole on the left side of the infield, but Mark Ellis' return has allowed Adam Kennedy to man the hot corner, and Orlando Cabrera is starting to warm up a bit. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Daric Barton get a sustained opportunity at first.

Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Who are the most popular trade targets for those holes? Any targets flying under the radar? Any targets your team is especially intrigued in? Any popular names they're backing away from? Any rumors you'd like to start?

Rev Halofan (Halos Heaven):: to paraphrase Axl Rose, The Angels got the money honey, do you have their disease? I'd say they get the most bang for buck if they trade Joe Saunders and Trevor Reckling (WTF with all these Trevors by the way? Was there a character on Miami Vice or a dude in Duran Duran named Trevor?) for Roy Halladay. They could even throw in Juan Rivera and take Vernon Wells and his salary. And they would be stupid enough to do it.

Jeff Sullivan (Lookout Landing): If a target was flying under the radar, how would we know about it? The most frequently-mentioned names coming up right now are Jack Wilson, JJ Hardy, and Freddy Sanchez. Hardy won't come cheap and Sanchez would pose a roster problem if and when Beltre returns, but it seems to me that the M's could have Wilson for a fairly low price were they so inclined.

67MARQUEZ (Athletics Nation):: Pat Burrell is a name that came up recently, as the A's sent a scout to watch a Jays-Rays game.

Adam J. Morris (Lone Star Ball)::  The Rangers have been linked with Roy Halladay, although the Jays would probably want a couple of guys from the Holland/Feliz/Justin Smoak/Martin Perez quadumvirate, plus another couple of prospects, and I can't see Texas biting the bullet on that deal.  And they supposedly can't add salary unless they move someone else (such as Hank Blalock).  I think if they add someone, it will be a cheap (in terms of prospects and money) righty bat that can play some first base, such as Nomar Garciaparra.

Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Which prospects and young major leaguers are most likely to change hands? Any that teams have deemed off-limits?

Rev Halofan (Halos Heaven):: Angels won't trade Brandon Wood or Jered Weaver. Erick Aybar and Kendry Morales have the most value, Saunders goes for sure if it is a "marquee" trade.

Jeff Sullivan (Lookout Landing): I don't know that anyone has been declared off-limits, although it wouldn't be hard to figure out which Mariners could be dealt and which ones couldn't. Wladimir Balentien and Jeff Clement look like total trade bait. Maybe Greg Halman, too, depending on the target.

67MARQUEZ (Athletics Nation):: With Beane, that can never be declared, but it is unlikely that the A's part ways with any of their next Big Three.

Adam J. Morris (Lone Star Ball)::  Every team is going to be asking about the big four -- Feliz, Holland, Smoak, and Perez.  And the Rangers aren't going to part with one of those guys unless it is part of a deal to bring in a big-time difference maker under team control for a while.  I wouldn't be shocked if the Rangers opted to dangle Nelson Cruz as part of a package for an impact pitcher, though, since the plan is to put Josh Hamilton in RF long-term to make room for Julio Borbon in center, and Cruz is a nice middle-of-the-order bat who is cheap and under team control for a while, giving him a fair amount of value.

Sky Kalkman (Moderator): Without any trade-deadline moves, what has to happen for your team to win the division? How much more likely is your team to make the playoffs by plugging its holes or adding an impact player?

Rev Halofan (Halos Heaven):: At perfect health we're the class of this division by a mile and in dire straights health-wise and no deal we have a 1 and a half game lead at the All Star Break. Translation: The three of you don't look any scarier in my rear view mirror.

67MARQUEZ (Athletics Nation):: As much as I hate to admit it (and I really, really do), Rev is right.

At the beginning of the season we talked about many things having to go right for the A's to win the West. And now? Short of the teams ahead of them going into the tank all at once, I'm not even sure this question was even meant for me. Adding an impact player won't even help at this stage. Unless we're talking Pujos. And even then...

Adam J. Morris (Lone Star Ball)::  For the Rangers to win the division without any moves, they need Josh Hamilton to start hitting like Josh Hamilton again, Chris Davis to start hitting like Chris Davis again, and the pitching staff to stay healthy.  I think if that happens, they'll stay in it all the way and could steal the division from the Angels.

Jeff Sullivan (Lookout Landing): If the Mariners are to win the division, they'll need the offense to play to its projection level, the Angels to play to theirs, and Erik Bedard to remain healtoh my god we're boned

Bringing in a shortstop would help, but given that our playoff chances (now as of this writing on July 17th!) are somewhere around 12%, not even Hanley Ramirez would make us favorites. We just need luck. Either the M's need to play over their heads, or the Angels have to play under theirs. Or both. Both would make it easy.

Comment 28 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Comments

Display:

Rev
Translation: The three of you don’t look any scarier in my rear view mirror.

They might be the class of the division, but that’s a bold claim for a team that’s 14-17 in its division and 2-7 vs. its closest competitor.

Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.

by TheJeezus on Jul 20, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Haha. Wrecked.

"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney

by inactive lsb user on Jul 20, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think the angels

are in good position if solely for the fact that they are best positioned to improve their team through trades. they have more money to spend and even though we have a much better system right now, they are probably more willing to move good prospects to try to milk as many playoff berths out of their closing window as possible. it makes more sense for us just to let our prospects mature and cash in over the next few years.

One thing though, I strongly disagree that with both teams healthy the angels would win the division by a mile. They are a better team, but the margin is narrowing and definitely susceptible to swinging our way through normal variation in Pythagorean W-L.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 20, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Couple of things

1. The Angels just don’t have much in terms of prospects or young ML players that they can give up. The few guys that have trade value are the one’s that they need to keep for a playoff run this year. The other ones won’t be bringing in any kind of impact player.

2. No team is ever completely healthy and when you get injury prone players, you really can’t hope for perfect health. Just like the Rangers with McCarthy and Blalock or last year with Bradley thrown in the mix too. You can’t expect those kind of players to be healthy for an entire season. Its not like Hamilton where he just crashed into the wall and we could all hope for him to get healthy.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 20, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Adam, regarding what you said about Ryan wanting vets in trade

where is that word coming from that you reference?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jul 20, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Joe Saunders and Trevor Reckling

would get you Halladay, huh? I want what he is smoking.

by Michael Cave on Jul 20, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

That is absolutely insane

We’ll counter with Scott Feldman and Blake Beavan, and throw in someone like Vallejo and have that deal beat.

The only way the Angels get Roy Halladay is if they assume Vernon Wells’ contract. Which is always possible, since the one thing Arte Moreno loves is overpaying outfielders.

Go Rice Owls!

by JBImaknee on Jul 20, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

In Rev's mind

Joe Sanders = the next Jon Lester

Alma para conquistarte, corazón para quererte, y vida para vivirla junto a ti.

by chrisR on Jul 20, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're being too literal
Joe Saunders and Trevor Reckling
would get you Halladay, huh? I want what he is smoking.

It isn’t that those two players alone would get the deal done, but rather the type of player one would find in the deal.

The Jays have already said they aren’t offering a window for the potentially acquiring club to negotiate an extension with Halladay. That alone is going to restrict the sort of payout the Jays will get. Few teams will ship out several of their prize players in the minors and/or a starter or two without some assurance that they’ll acquire Halladay past 2010. Thus, the idea is that Saunders (a front-line starter) and Reckling (the top pitching prospect) would be the foundation of the deal. Surely one or two other AAA- or AA-level players would be included but that would be the extent, and this would be true of any team dealing for Halladay.

What this won’t be is the sort of haul that Daniels drew for Teixeira, but rather more like what the Braves took in return for Teixeira.

The Jays will get more for him if they trade before the deadline and give that team a boost for the playoffs. Otherwise, his trade value will drop even further if he becomes nothing more guaranteed than a one-year rental.

For that reason, I don’t see the Angels as players in this derby. I think it will come down to the Philies and Cards, and it is possible neither will walk off with Halladay before the end of the season.

by George Kaplan on Jul 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rev is such a d-bag

I’d rather see more 1 on 1 conversation between the AL West bloggers than a roundtable like this.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.

"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jul 20, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions  

i really dont want to see us trade cruz

unless it’s in a deal for a Greinke-type, but I dont see that happening. i know his value is at its peak right now, but I think he’s legit.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 20, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions  

You had me at “quadumvirate.”

by shroomer on Jul 20, 2009 1:14 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

fun

Whenever I read this kind of thing I always get the strong sense that the three other AL West SBNation Bloggers really can’t stand the Rev.

"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley

by trza on Jul 20, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

It sounds to me like they're all afraid to tick him off too...

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jul 20, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well he just seems like the type of guy

that would be like “oh yeah, oh yeah, who is the last team to win a WS?”

by Michael Cave on Jul 20, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd tell him "Phillies; where were you guys??"

But I just like to poke the bear…

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

The "rev" is an ass--no way else to describe him.

I no longer post on his site because of it.

If you say something he doesn’t like he is one of those guys that will point out your spelling or grammar errors, acting like he is the reincarnation of Ernest Hemingway. I was lambasted by him when I said that the Angels would sign Gary Matthews Jr.—I didn’t support the signing, I just thought that the Angels might go after him. Then the next year when I predicted that Torri Hunter might become an Angel he did even worse. I was afraid to go back an tell him that I told him so.

And heaven forbid you talk about and stats on his site or be critical of Mike Scioscia. If you care to point out that Erick Aybar swings at more bad pitches than Vlad and have stats to back it up you are treated like a Judas.

I could go on and on but let’s just say that you are right—he is that type of guy.

I am a fair weather fan so the Angels better win!

by Halo84653 on Jul 21, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

The word is that Nolan Ryan is wanting to be more aggressive in making a move to add a veteran — even if it means giving up more in the way of prospects in order to get a team to pay more of the acquired player’s salary — while Daniels is wanting to be more patient and hold off moving key prospects for now.

huh?

usa

by Longhorn on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Seemed clear to me..

If, for example, we were to acquire Halladay:

Ryan would be willing to include more/better prospects to get Toronto to eat more of his salary.

JD would prefer to keep the prospects, even if it meant no deal.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jul 20, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Thats the way I read it. Which makes me hope Nolan stays out of things in the next few weeks

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 20, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I kinda disagree..

I hope that the two different voices can reach agreement and, if we can acquire someone we control for a while, I can live with losing a prospect or two.

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my mind based on the prospect(s) included and the return.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on Jul 20, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Concur

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jul 20, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

the lack of clarity

is the provenance of this kernal of wisdom which is closer to the pen of AdMo than the to the minds of the FO. In fact, NR stated precisely the opposite in his chat; NR is officially a JD convert.

by Goyogringo on Jul 20, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jeff Sullivan......THE BULLPEN HAS BEEN AWFUL?

How the hell has the Mariners bullpen been awful. They have been the second best in the league. I hope your were being sarcastic. You must be high as shit

by Chizzleteypop on Jul 20, 2009 11:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Well

This might explain things a bit. The bullpen has produced good results but It’s not really that good.

by ThundaPC on Jul 21, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

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