Heyman on the Rangers
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 27, 2009 1:51 PM CDT
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PrintJon Heyman with some trade deadline talk, including this on the Rangers:
One piece of good news for Texas: Commissioner Bud Selig has no plans to step in to prevent any big-money deal they may make, no matter what owner Tom Hicks' personal financial situation is.
Selig said in a phone interview that teams are free to do what they see fit. That includes Texas, which was bailed out in two straight pay periods by the commissioner's office, according to sources.
There's been incredible excitement around the young Rangers in the Arlington area, but frankly, it would seem odd to commit $23 million to a pitcher (Halladay) when you're having difficulty meeting current payroll demands.
"[Hicks] can't be involved in this. He just has too much pride to tell his front office," said an executive with another team interested in Halladay.
But somehow, he is. The Rangers have inquired about both Halladay and Lee -- though their chances do not look very good on either. Texas does not want to part with top prospects for Lee and it's thus deemed the price tag far too high on Halladay.
The Rangers are as well-stocked with prospects as anyone, but someone familiar with their thinking said, "They aren't going to give up their players for Lee."
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Don't make him blow up
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jul 27, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he probably
won’t even show up
Post.Fail.
by red shoe ranger on Jul 27, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if we promise him some Fruit Roll-Up?
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
Yeah
I don’t think he’s worth it either.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 27, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
What would you be willing to give up for Halladay?
Ricciardi says, “I’m about to send Halladay to the BoSox, but I’m giving you one shot to give me your last best offer.”
What do you offer?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Here we go
Holland or Feliz
Borbon
Poveda
Moscoso or Main (basically its the closer to majors or ceiling argument with this one)
And then maybe a Bianucci type lower level hitter
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Depends on what the Bosox offer is....
My firm line would be 1 of our top 4….(Holland, Smoak, Feliz, Perez)
and 2 of our 2nd tier (teagarden, Davis, Hunter, Borbon, Beaven, Kiker)
and then 1 lottery ticket A-baller (Font, Boscan, Beltre)
so say…..Feliz, Teagarden, Beaven, Font.
If that doesn’t get him.
by death of the cool on Jul 27, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
sorry hit return too quickly....
If that trade isn’t enough….then I move on.
by death of the cool on Jul 27, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I say "Good luck"
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
hang up
and call Theo asking about Penny, Smoltz and Clay
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Presumably Clay would be headed to the Jays.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
so Penny and Smoltz
that makes sense, Clay being included – who else would they throw in there, Lars and another pitching prospect?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, a package that trumps Adam's idea of what it would cost the Rangers is
Buchholz, Lowrie, Lars, Reddick (or Westmoreland)
Buchholz > Feliz
Lowrie > Borbon (a better fit for what the Jays are seeking)
Lars < Smoak
Reddick ~= Beavan (??)
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
and with LaRoche there now
they don’t NEED Lars…and can always open up the wallet for another 1st baseman. I could really see Boston sweeping in at the last minute and making this deal, and really killing my mood. Boston would be unstoppable over the next 2 years with a Halladay/Beckett/Lester trio and Smoltz/Penny/Dice K/Wakefield/free agent, etc. filling out the rotation and that disgusting bullpen
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
As I've said
I don’t think I’d make a serious offer for Halladay. What are you going to do on January 1, 2011 when Halladay is gone, Millwood is gone, you’ve given up Smoak, Holland and Borbon, and guys like Scheppers, Perez, Purke and Font aren’t even ready for the majors yet, much less to pick up the slack in your rotation? Just keep dealing all of your best young players to sustain the one spot?
You finish building your team, hope that Holland and Feliz and some of these other guys (Feldman, etc) stabilize the meat of your rotation, then you deal guys like Purke and Font for your Halladay. The player is much more likely to agree to join you at that point anyway.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You talk as if resigning Halladay isn't a realistic possibility
by oc on Jul 27, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
In the event that they do obtain him
Let’s take even odds, and I’ll bet as much as you’d like that he doesn’t re-sign with Texas.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Why wouldn't he? He's played for a perennial loser
by oc on Jul 27, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
He's on record as telling Ricciari that's he'll test the FA waters.
He may well change his mind, or it may be BS, but he is on record.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
"that's"???????
I gotta start proofreading more.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Since I don't want to skirt your question
Let’s say in a parallel universe that Holland was rolling, Francisco was completely healthy and there was another reliable guy in the RH setup role, Davis, Kinsler, Hamilton, Saltalamacchia, Cruz and Borbon were all in the lineup and hitting more like you’d expect their prime years to look like. I’d probably give them a choice of Feliz and Smoak, Hunter, Beavan and the best other position prospect I’ve got.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
choice between feliz and smoak
that seems kind of weird. you don’t think they are vastly different?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I'm just saying that
if we were more like Boston or Philadelphia in our development curve, I might be willing to give either of them up. Smoak is the more highly regarded one, but if they want an elite pitcher they can have Feliz.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
especially with the numbers he's put up at the ballpark
In 6 starts here, he’s 3-3 with 9.19 ERA and a WHIP of 1.76 over 32.1 innings.
FWIW, Halladay, in Arlington, is 4-3 in 11 Appearances (10 starts) with a 6.14 ERA and a 1.44 WHIP over 63 innings.
'Howard makes me fear the NKoreans less... If they shot anything at us, he’d be there to block it." - Aquaman56
"Also Ian’s season is following the same pattern as Ricky Martins Career. Both needed another hit, bad." - SaltyGoesYard
I hate that argument
Maybe its not the ballpark its the team hes pitching against
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Agreed on Halladay
but looking at Lee’s track record here and at Jacobs Field, granted he has made only 2 starts vs the Rangers at Jacob’s Field and 6 vs the Rangers at TBIA, in those 2 starts at Jacobs, he did do a pretty solid job of holding down the Rangers, whereas he was absolutely shelled here in Arlington.
'Howard makes me fear the NKoreans less... If they shot anything at us, he’d be there to block it." - Aquaman56
"Also Ian’s season is following the same pattern as Ricky Martins Career. Both needed another hit, bad." - SaltyGoesYard
Wow, Millwood > Halladay?
Cause I mean, Millwood doesn’t have a 6 ERA at TBIA.
So clearly he’s a much better option, or atleast pitches to the ballpark better than Halladay.
notice i said "FWIW"
Halladay’s career lines against the Rangers isn’t that far off from his lines against the Rangers at TBIA, which prob has to do with the Ranger’s offense that was good at one time. As for Lee, he has been significantly better at Jacobs Field against the Rangers than he has been at TBIA, so you really shouldn’t be giving up big-time prospects for him…..
'Howard makes me fear the NKoreans less... If they shot anything at us, he’d be there to block it." - Aquaman56
"Also Ian’s season is following the same pattern as Ricky Martins Career. Both needed another hit, bad." - SaltyGoesYard
Lee
Why are you so down on a guy with an ERA+ of 175 and 142 the past two seasons, who costs $5.75 million this year and $8 million next year?
by Darrell McKown on Jul 27, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t think that either his ERA or his ERA+ reflects how good he can be expected to be moving forward. This is a guy whose career was in shambles a year and a half ago.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Halladay
It reminds me of the McCarthy trade, just a difference of degrees. Win now vs. win when Holland/Feliz are good.
It just doesn’t quite seem like the right time. I do think they can get something at the deadline that’s useful over the next couple years.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
I agree
And I agree with Adam. This is a trade (Halladay or Lee) that you make if you are up a handfull of games. Or the winter after you go to the playoffs and you are trying to fill a need. The Dodgers, Phillies, Red Sox and Yankees should be the teams going all in for Halladay and to a lesser extent Lee. One player can get them to the playoffs and possiby the WS. The Rangers need more than one player.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I am not sold on Lee....
as an ace. I could see him become average rather quickly…..maybe its just the lingering thoughts of him getting raked by Texas.
Halladay would be nice……but only for 1 of our top 4 (plus 2 or 3 solid prospects)
by death of the cool on Jul 27, 2009 1:57 PM CDT reply actions
My deals for Halladay and Lee
For Halladay:
1 of – Smoak/Holland/Feliz
3 of – Font/Beavan/Kiker/Main/Ross
Beltre
For Lee:
Holland
Moreland
Maybe a throw in like Lemon or Vallejo
Thoughts? Too much? Not enough?
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
Personally
I don’t throw any of the big 4 in for Lee, so that’d be too much IMO
'Howard makes me fear the NKoreans less... If they shot anything at us, he’d be there to block it." - Aquaman56
"Also Ian’s season is following the same pattern as Ricky Martins Career. Both needed another hit, bad." - SaltyGoesYard
You think it would be possible to offer 2 of the second tier pitching prospects like Beaven/Kiker/Font and a Vallejo?
I mean, I love Holland, but isn’t he pretty much trying to become Cliff Lee? Or is his ceiling that much higher?
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
x
I’d think about it, but as I said earlier, I really dont think Lee would succeed in this ballpark. As for Holland, I have to think his ceiling has to be higher than Lee’s, a guy, who a year and a half ago was pretty much done.
'Howard makes me fear the NKoreans less... If they shot anything at us, he’d be there to block it." - Aquaman56
"Also Ian’s season is following the same pattern as Ricky Martins Career. Both needed another hit, bad." - SaltyGoesYard
There's really no way your getting Lee without one of the Big 4
Font really would be the only guy that could headline a deal to get Lee, but you would have to include much more (like Borbon and Moreland and Ross and such)
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
If it were Font headlining, I'd totally do Font/Beavan/Moreland/Vallejo for Lee.
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
I'd probably do that
They can probably get a better lead prospect than Font or Beavan though.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
huh?
“[Hicks] can’t be involved in this. He just has too much pride to tell his front office,” said an executive with another team interested in Halladay
Tell his front office….what?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
The news circulating about him not making payroll wasn't enough?
LOL Sorry the Sooners will score more that 14. - boomer1
A lot of people in here compare the impending Halladay Trade to the Tex Trade but
if you offered the BJs Feliz, Salty, BJones and Harrison, it wouldn’t be enough to get Halladay.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
Are you referring to their value now, or at the time of the Tex trade?
If so, don’t forget Andrus was apart of that too..
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
That trade was for Tiny E, Feliz and clutter in the Braves organization.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
" I don’t feel like arguing with laxtonto about it for the same reason I wouldn’t argue with him if he said the earth was flat. He’s a person who is happy with his head up his ass so why should I make him sad?"
Harrison is clutter?
I thought you were driving that bandwagon.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
It's not mutually exclusive
for example, the bandwagon could be a dump truck
by Telegraph on Jul 27, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I bet they take it if you include Andrus and would probably even include Frasor.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 27, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
by “they” I meant the Jays would take it even if they had to include Frasor. If I were the Rangers, I would offer that package with Vallejo instead of Andrus, but the Jays probably wouldn’t take it.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 27, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Add Andrus
And the only argument they might make would be to replace Harrison with Hunter, or some other non-DL’d pitcher.
no Fing way
they take it and run with it
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, to seal the deal...
the Rangers could throw in the great Hack Blalock. Or maybe just straight up for Halladay.
So basically
We could turn Tex into Halladay….not much of us would be arguing that
Except they would want Andrus back. I think too many of us have fallen in love with him to let him go
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
Would you consider
trying to get victor martinez and cliff lee from the indians? Money would probably be an issue, but assuming we could find a way to make the money work (maybe by dealing padilla in a seperate deal or whatever) would you be willing to give up a package of Smoak/Feliz/Salty + several second and third teir prospects for those two studs? If the cost was similar, I’d much rather have both of those guys than just Halladay, it would probably cost too much though to get them to deal both of them though.
Why not go after Lee and garko instead of Lee and Martinez?
Would the cost in prospects be less or roughly the same?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Yeah
I guess he would be the better pick up when considering cost, but I think Martinez is the better player, what about a deal including all of the above? A package of Lee, Garko, and Martinez for something along the lines of Smoak, Feliz, Salty, 2 or 3 out of Kiker/Baevan/Ross/Poveda/Font and maybe add in a Moreland or Beltre or Smith type. That would remake our offense in a good way for this and next year, and give us a much needed TORP. The Indians get an incredible foundation for the future, with Smoak, Feliz, Salty all likely to play a huge role over the next several years, and a glut of prospects who will probably contribute eventually.
please Jake.
no. please, no.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok...
I’m really just throwing things out there… I have been against any Halladay/big name deadline deal sending away a bunch of prospects, but if we are going to do it, I’d rather get several players to fill more of our holes rather than just send away everyone for Halladay and hope he is enough. Go big or go home, that being said I may have badly misjudged players’ value in my proposed deal
you probably got the value right, from Cleveland's perspective
which is why we should hang up the phone.
Ideally, I’d like to go after Adam Dunn and just roll with the pitching we have right now. Then sign Sheets as soon as we’re ready to a highly incentive laden deal that pays him a decent amount on base but nothing like the current Padilla/Millwood contracts
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Does JD call like this:
“Hello, this is JD and id like to fuck the shit out of the rangers future and give you a bright and shiny new one”
I disagree
it is probably too much to give up, but with our system we would still have a ton of young guys like Holland, Perez, Borbon, Purke, Scheppers, plus whichever ones in the second teir they didn’t choose. Also with the way our roster is shaped up we have young players at nearly every position, there isn’t a lot of need. I think people consistently overvalue our own prospects, myself included. And now to be a complete hypocrite I actually hope we do nothign this deadline except for maybe a minor pickup. I think we will be better positioned this offseason and next deadline to be serious players. But I think our system is in a position where even if we made a huge blockbuster, we would still have a very bright future.
Remember
Perez, Purke, Scheppers, guys like that could be years away. To sustain any success, you’re just going to have to trade them away too, if you trade the guys who have the ability to make a serious impact for the next couple of years and still be around past then.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
How many
young guys do you need to bring up each year in order to sustain sucess? In my mind you need to bring up 1 or 2 solid cogs each year that will contribute for the next 5-10 years. This year we are bringing up a lot more than that (Holland, Andrus, Hunter etc.), and even with a deal we would probably still have a couple guys left over that could come up next year to contribute. We just don’t have that many glaring holes where we need to be bringing up 4 or 5 prospects a season to complete our team. And if there are holes thats when you can get a stop-gap veteran for a 1 or 2 year deal. Isn’t Scheppers supposed to be somewhat close to the bigs too? Probably be in Frisco some point next year?
First off
very, very few players stay with a team for as many as ten years these days. I think you look at young players as six year propositions. Whether it’s retaining a guy like Young or signing a FA to replace him, you’re looking at a FA type situation past that. Trades are the same thing; you’re just swapping around assets that you’ve already developed. So aside from what you fill with pure money, you have 25 roster spots and, say, 15 key roster spots every six years. When you have no money like the Rangers, more of those spots do have to be turned over. So that’s four roster spots and 2.5 key players inserted per year, whether immediately like Andrus or gradually like Cruz.
The main reason that Texas is in such good shape moving forward is that it has so many good talents under control for several years, plus some good players in its system. They have solid, long term players at most of those key positions, with questions at 1B, CF, DH, two SP (being very generous there) and at least one relief spot. It’s easy to get caught up in how well Hunter has pitched, for example, but I think it’s a little foolish to think that he’s going to be slottable in a top three rotation spot. If you deal Smoak, Holland and Borbon as three of the four players for Halladay (and frankly I’m not sure that it was appropriate to call Beavan the other “top” talent), you’re upgrading from Holland to Halladay (obviously a huge upgrade for now) for next season, then he’s gone, and you’re ridding yourself of your answers to 1B and CF (even if Davis can handle the other position, DH).
None of those guys you’re talking about are going to help the team win in 2011 or probably 2012, though Scheppers might at least contribute on some level in a positive fashion by 2012, and Perez might be knocking on the door by the end of that season (he’ll turn 21 as the season begins). So Halladay will be gone, and you’ll have zero options to fill those key spots. What will your rotation look like in 2011? Feliz, Feldman, Hunter, Harrison and Kiker? You will have zero chance of winning without using up the rest of your prospect inventory again to supplement.
As is, you have your 1B in Smoak, you have your CF in Borbon, plus you have Murphy to supplement Borbon, Cruz and Davis. You have Holland, who will probably be pretty damn good in 2011 btw, to go with Feliz and those guys, plus that same option to use your high end pitching prospects to upgrade, just with those other very talented players to go with it.
All of this depth outside of those players is very dealable (you can afford to deal it), and it’s great and all, but you (not you, the Rangers) can’t confuse those types of players with having valid long term solutions. After Smoak and Borbon, there aren’t any position players in this system that you can point to as viable __ of the future. How many years will it take to get that machine rolling again? And there is unfortunately a gap between Feliz/Holland and when those other high upside arms can get to Arlington and be beneficial. You can’t just assume that two more of them will be coming each year to insert or trade. If those two facts were different, the situation would be different. But it’s the way things are.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem with Mart and Lee
Is hearing the rumors this weekend about the Dodgers wanting both of them in a deal and the talks were going to center around Loney, one of Kershaw or Billingsley, and a minor league pitching prospect.
So if we wanted to entertain ourselves in a deal like that, we would have to probably give up Smoak (better than Loney trade wise), either Feliz or Holland (not as good as Kershaw or Billingsley trade wise), and a minor league pitching prospect (probably one of Font, Ross, Poveda or Beaven)
In this case, Pass
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
JD said no.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 27, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Aaron Harang is on the market
Anyone?
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
he's been better than I thought this season, but
his $12.5M price tag for next season seems a little high. If we could get him in a salary dump type move for a couple second tier guys, I’d go for that.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
Yeah
I don’t think it would take much to get him.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
really?
like what? I’d expect to part with a few highly rated guys – not a Feliz/Smoak/Holland/Perez, but still something that hurts…
I’d love to have Harang here, would they take Hank’s contract back? Could we involve a 3rd team?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it
I’d definitely rather keep the best prospects and take Harang’s contract off their hands. His 110:30 K:bb is pretty nice.
the preceding post was a great success.
plus who knows how well he might pitch
coming to the AL. Could absolutely dominate…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
90 ERA+ with OAK in 2002, 83 ERA+ in 2003 before being traded to CIN
78.1 innings in 2003 and 30.1 with OAK in 2003 (76.1 total), starting all but one game in both seasons there. His ERA+ in CIN for 2003 was 78 and in 2004 was 88 before posting an ERA+ of 112, 124, 125 and 94. He’s at 104 so far this year.
Of course, Harang 2002 would likely not be the same as Harang 2009. Career-wise, his GB/FB ratio is 0.63.
I'd like to think his experience
would mean quite a rise in that ERA+
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I know it isn't common
but what about dealing Purke or Scheppers as a PTBNL? Would they have value somewhere in between our top tier of prospects and our second tier? I guess its a psychological thing, but it would be much less painful for me to give one of them away verses one of the prospects I have followed over the past several years.
I think draftees
can’t be trade for a year after they were drafted.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
oh...
I thought they just had to be a “player to be named later” until a certain date… I guess that makes sense though since we haven’t even signed them yet. Good to know.
A PTBNL has to be named within 60 days, IIRC.
So, we could include Smoak, who still hasn’t reached his 1 year anniversary, but not any of this year’s crop.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
They have to be in your system
For a year before you deal them.
2009 Texas Rangers: Why The Hell Not Us?--ghtd36 on May 13, 2009
Can't
First off they haven’t signed yet. Secondly the first 6 months after they do sign they cannot be traded under any circumstances. And thirdly if they had been signed for 6 months they would still have to be PTBNL because a player cannot be traded by name for a full year upon signing.
So if we do trade Smoak this deadline (which I doubt we do by the way) he will be a PTBNL because he signed at the deadline last year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Haha
JD: “Yeah, we’ll give you one of Purke or Scheppers, even though they haven’t signed yet and possbily both are going to go overslot by a lot, but hey, they are highly ranked already in our farm system! Good luck with trying to sign them!”
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
Here's hoping Halladay isn't traded
I’d be much more inclined to make this trade this offseason or during next year’s trade deadline.
and how much would you assume the asking price would drop
in the offseason?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
But, But..........
His over 6 ERA is screaming bust right now!
/DMN Blog Comment Morons
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
Well, Texas will probably not offer him arb
so he’ll probably be a no-comp.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there's a good chance that they will offer him arb...
in hopes to get him at a more reasonable price than the 12 million it would take for his option.
Padilla
No way they offer him arbitration. He would make at least $9.6 million next season in arbitration.
by Darrell McKown on Jul 27, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
And Padilla would take it
No one is going to want to give him such a deal like that
Even though it would be sad not to receive those draft picks, we could use that money to go get Sheets. Way better than a draft pick
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
isn't $12M minus 10%
the lowest they could offer him? And lets not forget that Hicks is counting on Padilla’s contract coming off the books next year to help reduce payroll.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I believe arbitration can only go down a certain amount
I want to say the lowest is 80% of the previous years salary which with Padilla would still be 9+ million.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
ah, so if you factor in his $2M buyout
would it only be a $7M+ offer to Padilla?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
I don't think you factor that in
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
gotta factor in his buyout of roughly $2M
basically, is he worth his $10M option next year?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Right and
I’d be really surprised if they even give it much thought. Particularly since they will have a pretty nice group of young pitchers for starter depth next season: Millwood, Feldman, McCarthy, Holland, Hunter, Harrison, Feliz, Moscoso, with Kiker, Poveda and potentially Beavan and Hurley in AAA. I don’t think that they will even be tempted to commit that much to Padilla.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
this is what i don't get at all
you have all of these guys (most of them pretty young) but you have to hold on to smoak/feliz/holland because in 2011 you’ll have no one? I get that all of those guys are a tier (or many tiers) below the big 3 but its not like a halladay trade would completely cripple you. You still have a way better than average chance of ending up with a #2, and some 3-4 types.
I find it odd that you’d be willing to give up one of the big three but 2 is killing the farm.
*I keep saying big three because Perez is off limits and i won’t include him at all in these negotiations. just a personal preference though as I think it is debatable whether he truly has more value than feliz given how far away he is.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
The difference is caliber of player
They have depth, but they (like everyone) have a very limited number of elite talents. Remember, they’ve had like four players in the last 20 years who ranked where Smoak is, and they’ve NEVER had a pitcher ranked where Feliz is (just using rankings for perspective).
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I get that
Lets assume that Feliz and Holland are the same and that they both have an even chance of hitting. And Smoak is Smoak.
You are saying you’d trade one of those three but not two of those three for Halladay? In the first scenario, you are probably trading a pitcher and in the second scenario, you are probably trading a pitcher +smoak. Smoak is pretty awesome. I get that. But isn’t Halladay worth it, especially since we have Davis, who might not be smoak but is still really young, an excellent glove, and at least potential to be above average offensively?
I just don’t understand your thinking, unless you really wouldn’t want to trade even one of the big three for Halladay – and then I just think you are overvaluing prospects/undervaluing halladay.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I think
comparing Davis to Smoak is fairly ludicrous.
Due to Davis’ walk and strikeout issues in the minors, I have doubts he really is going to be much more than an average major leaguer. Certainly, with our team makeup, a guy like Smoak who can actually work counts is in huge demand.
Right now, I’d rather have a patient hitter for 6 years than an ace for a year and a third.
There is almost no package that includes Smoak that I would do for Halladay.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
hmmm...
comparing Davis to Smoak is fairly ludicrous.
You mean, Smoak’s overall ranking and future ceiling? Or what Davis has been able to do (the good) in the majors so far?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say they were the same
I’m just saying we have a 1B prospect that we can probably expect to play above average for a long time. If we didn’t have that, I’d be more reluctant to let go of smoak.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
also
this “we desperately need a patient hitter” thing is a bit overblown. It’s the type of thing that I think can get corrected with some savvy trades or a good hitting instructor.
at least, I think you are overblowing it
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I don't think so
I think people are overrating to some extent how much a good hitting instructor can do with a guy like Chris Davis and his K:BB of 3.5 to 1 in the minors. I think his max upside is maybe Henry Rodriguez, and I doubt he is ever that good. We are going down a path of having Salty, Andrus, and Borbon up the middle, and that is going to make our 1B and DH offense all the more critical, because I doubt we ever get much in the way of plus offense out of the three up the middle defensive positions.
If I thought our offense in the majors was better, or I thought we had good hitting prospects in the minors I might trade Smoak, but right now, I just don’t see where the offense comes from with our current collection of hackers, and our weak (for position players) minor leagues.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
meh
you apparently think our offense is playing more representative than abberational this year. I don’t think the book is closed on someone like Salty who was a plus hitting prospect coming up. Borbon, Andrus, Davis – sure. But you apparently don’t think very highly of Hamilton/Cruz/Kinsler and I can see them providing plus offense.
Plus, doesn’t seem too difficult to get a plus hitter in FA or draft. I think you would be satisfied if we had some garko/willingham types and they can seemingly be had relatively easily in trade.
Your line of thinking only makes sense if you value Smoak as a superstar offensive player and think that this team doesn’t have someone like him in the majors or minors at all and the team is otherwise void of offense. I just don’t see that as being the case.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
No, I don't think Hamilton Cruz Kinsler
are enough to carry a team. Especially when you are conceding offense at 3 positions.
As I said, if our minors were full of positional talent, I might feel differently, but right now while we are stacked with pitching prospects, our positional talent is pretty much Smoak and a bunch of guys who are fairly meh.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
i don't think davis is conceding offense
and if he turns out to be that shitty, then you go pick up one of the shit ton of 1b offensive players out there.
and i think tons of teams out there would swap out some of our pitchers for positional talent
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I think Smoak is a special, impact talent
and I doubt we will get his equivalent for any of the pitchers that folks would be willing to trade.
Now, if we can make the deal by trading away Davis instead of Smoak, I’d have no problem with that.
I have no desire to trade 6 years of Smoak for 1.3 of Halladay, but I’d trade 5 of Davis in a heartbeat.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
then do you make the trade with both holland and feliz?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Nope.
I go one of those guys at most.
As the season goes later and later, there is less interest for me to make the trade for Halladay. As it is, I’m not sure he is worth more than an extra win or two this year. With us 3.5 back, that makes the value of the trade for this year even lower.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
you can't keep Perez out of it
he’s a part of the Big 4. And he’s no more or less untouchable than the others, I think, and would certainly be a second big piece requested, I think.
when you let go of 1 of Feliz/Holland/Perez, you are taking away 33% of the chance of developing a future Ace within your own farm system. It’s palatable if you have a sure-thing Ace coming back. But when you’re unsure if that sure thing Ace is going to resign with you, if you have to give up a 2nd of those names, you are now giving up 67% chance that you are developing an Ace. It’s much more difficult, to me. I’d be fine with giving up one of those arms and Smoak, with Davis and Moreland around, plus the 1st basemen you can get in the market.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
he wouldn't be a deal breaker
especially if you were offering (feliz or holland) + smoak.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
The problem
youre taking the high end torp guys out
and everytime you do this you take away the guy who may make it, you want a lot of prospects b/c we all know many wont make it
but my biggest issue…youre renting Halladay for 1.5 years for a team that isnt ready
not ready in 2010 either?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
If you're ready in 2010 and you want him at that point, trade for him in the offseason.
We’re not one player away right this second, that’s why I don’t do this trade.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
that assumes he doesn't get traded this offseason
which I don’t think is right. and the team that ends up with him – I doubt they trade him.
and I doubt you’ll really know whether you are ready in the offseason before 2010 anymore than you know about 2010 now (at least not appreciably).
and your logic makes no sense. what’s wrong with doing this deal now rather than later – unless you think we’re not ready for 2010 – which would be counter to what many think.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Im still waiting
have you honestly lost your mind enough to tell me that Halladay makes this team a WS team…if so put away the drugs
Or send some
to me.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
have you asked this question before?
and World Series is not the final criteria to determine whether to make a trade. I don’t need to point out to a smart guy like you the fallacy behind such logic since that would lead to no trade ever being made and no crappy team ever improving.
The issue is does it make the franchise better overall. And of particular importance, does it make the franchise better this year or next year enough to get the rangers into the playoffs without sacrificing so much in the future in a irreparable way. The answer for me is yes.
The one thing about the Tex trade – is Atlanta’s future all that bleak? Would it be so much better having made it?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
*having not made it
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
When you say better overall
Better overall through 2010? Better overall through 2020?
Because while the trade makes the Rangers better this year, if it doesn’t get them to the playoffs, so what? Better in 2010? The trade certainly makes us worse in 2011 and on.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
better this year and next year
and in 2011 and beyond I think you can do some things to shore up the impact. i mean, we are talking about 2-3 guys here. For some (like you), the inclusion of one guy is killing the deal but not including him would be fine. I don’t see how logically you can take the position that we are certainly worse – or in such a position that we can’t make up the difference through a FA signing or a good draft pick. Unless you value Smoak as a superstar that can’t be had on the free agent market or the likes of which won’t be drafted again for another 5 years, your position just doesn’t make any sense. We are talking about a 1b. I think you can find one of those that are pretty good at offense – even if it isn’t smoak.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Again
You say 2-3 guys but you refuse to identify the fact that it is 2-4 of our highest ranking guys and they are simultaneously the ones closest to making it
i also disagree…if we were the phillies i would consider it but to me i just isnt logical for this team to push all in
since i feel like making a poker analogy for some odd reason…we are sitting there w/pocket 10s right now, which is a good hand, but we know others have better hands and it isnt worth risking what we have yet…wait for the better hand
now they aren't
they are only getting 2 out of the top 4.
and your poker analogy is beyond stupid.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
to expand
the other 2-3 guys they would get would presumably not be the closest guys to making it.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I dont think it is very good myself
But i dont think it was that bad
and i wouldnt deal 2 out of 4…2 of those guys still guts our team
and again, we arent ready to win yet…we are not the dodgers or phillies
just try to support your position using WAR
there is no way that including smoak kills this team that much in 2011 (or 2010). There’s no way he can be that valuable. no one person can ever be that valuable.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Not having Smoak
certainly hurts in 2011-2015.
I do think that Smoak will be a superstar, and I’m not convinced we will have the salary freedom to sign that kind of superstar.
I think the people who draw a rough equivalence between Davis and Smoak are fairly nuts.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
i don't need to draw a rough equivalence
i just need to prove that davis is above average (or we can get an above average 1b somehow) and smoak isn’t mickey mantle and there is no way you can support the idea that a 1b kills the deal.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
I'd take Padilla as a Type A
and nothing for Hank in a heartbeat. That’s an absolute steal for a guy we placed on waivers
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
No one
would give a first rounder for Padilla, particularly not these days.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
How about a 2nd round pick?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Same thing
Just look at the way last offseason went. If they offer him arb, he will just accept it.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah I saw that after I posted
I automatically assumed somebody like the Mets would offer him a contract…but forgot we have to do our part, first.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hank
Is he so valuable to this team that you don’t trade him and get nothing at the end of the year?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
I don't think that he's particularly valuable
to either the Rangers or someone else, particularly given his salary, so it’s not real high stakes either way.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
As they said...
almost no way do they offer Padilla arb unless they just know that he doesnt want a 1 year deal
Just curious
Does offering the Blue Jays JHam get you Halladay? or even close? How about Kins?
Just curious because every trade proposal I read about is for nothing but kids from the farm.
Could you center a trade around JHam? Not that we have any power on the way to the bigs from the minors but its a hell of a lot easier for the Rangers to convince hitters to sign here via FA
Post.Fail.
by red shoe ranger on Jul 27, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions
with Rios and Wells not going anywhere
and Lind and Snider probably not either.
I don’t see Toronto looking for an OF/DH type in the near future without guaranteeing themselves that they can get rid of Rios or Wells.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Speaking of arbitration...
which of the following guys do you offer arbitration to next year?
C.J. Wilson
Frank Francisco
Josh Hamilton
Brandon McCarthy
Scott Feldman
Josh Rupe
Willie Eyre
Dustin Nippert
All of them? Are Rupe and McCarthy locks to return?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Rupe
hes not on the 40 so i don’t know what his situation is like. But everyone else I would offer it to if they are still on the 40 at that time. Eyre is probably the most likely not to be on it however out of that group
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
everybody
except Eyre, Rupe and possibly McCarthy
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Id offer
arbitration to McCarthy. I dont think he will command that much at all.
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 27, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
He is making $650K
this year, his first of arbitration. Proabably will get ~$800K next year.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Not enough to lose him for nothing
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If his 2010 is like
his 2009 or 2008, then he likely won’t be offered arb after 2010. His roster spot may be too valuable.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Thats after next year though
This year he shouldn’t be a roster casualty. Next winter possibly but not this one
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
yeah seeing that
I would def. offer it unless it turns out he’s got a career ending injury (which isn’t COMPLETELY out of the realm of possibilities – what a complete disappointment this guy’s injuries have become).
I had no idea what his contract was. So I’d let Eyre and Rupe walk…sadly with Rupe, I really liked the guy, but I think we need the 40 spots and we have a lot of talent on the horizon.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 27, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
definitely not Rupe
and for some reason the Rangers are in love with Wille Eyre.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
From Rob Neyer
I’ve developed a tendency to believe in the Angels, because they find a way to win almost every year. But if I’m the Rangers and I’m looking for a glimmer of hope, it’s this: the Angels might be winning yet again, but they’re not supposed to win like this. And maybe at some point this summer they’ll stop.
swap Angels and Rangers
But if I’m the Angels and I’m looking for a glimmer of hope, it’s this: the Rangers might be winning yet again, but they’re not supposed to win like this. And maybe at some point this summer they’ll stop.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Wrong
The Angels shouldn’t compete because of the players on the field and the ones unable to get on the field. The Rangers shouldn’t compete because of their team name and that alone. The whole reason the Rangers are winning now is because of the improved talent on defense and a strong bullpen. Nothing that flukey about that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Art Briles throwing out the first pitch tomorrow night.
Looks like I’m definitely going to the game, then.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
new prospet blog
go to www.diamondreport.wordpress.com. it is a decent new blog on minor league and draft prospects
Interesting little poll on ESPN ha
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=336
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
Looks like Josey's evening just filled up.
Finding different computers to complete this poll on.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
Haha
I did it and just filled out the top 5 to see JD’s ranking. He is no. 10 right now
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 27, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't understand everyone's man crush with Billy Beane
He found a few weaknesses in the market and exploited them to turn a small market team with low payroll into solid contenders. And then since then he’s done very little.
It is waning
It will continue to go down as his teams struggle more and he makes more and more bad trades
Why is Cashman rated so high?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Probably
because of good amount of ppl equate having unlimited money with ability to be a good GM. Some “fans” are most likely thinking wow, he got Tex and Sabithia and Burnett. He is really good..
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 27, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Cashman is the ultimate
craptastic GM who inherited most of his success.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I submit
Ned Colletti for that title.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Completely idiotic
but it looks like they pretty much voted the standings, aside from Billy Beane of course. But Rizzo #30 and Colletti #3 is insane.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah that
is how i saw it too. I would assume there are some pretty dumb ppl voting in that poll. If you want a good laugh read the accompanying story about Billy Beane.
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 27, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that people are associating those teams' talent bases with those two
and that’s not accurate. Colletti didn’t bring in the core of that Dodgers team or all of the players he’s traded away; Logan White, DePodesta, etc. did. Rizzo didn’t create this awful mess in Washington. He just inherited it this spring. He helped construct the talent base that took the DBacks to the playoffs and allowed them to do the Haren deal.
Rizzo is unproven as a GM, so I wouldn’t rank him real highly, probably third quartile with potential. For me Colletti is bottom end until there is some reason to think otherwise. If it were up to him, Clayton Kershaw and others would be in Arlington, and they’d be collecting draft picks for Teixeira. I guess you give Colletti some credit for helping recruit Torre to LA, but I would think that money, location, Lasorda and the White talent base did most of that work.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 27, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't you know
Its all about the wins and losses
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I thought all along that conservatives (Selig, Texans, Governor) were against bailouts.
I guess it makes a difference when it is your personal ass on the line as opposed to somebody else’s. Whatever, but it seems slightly hypocritical to me.
Mike Napoli speaks softly and carries a big stick.
Conservatives hypocritical?
say it ain’t so!
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
you are the reason why I can't loudly boast that I'm a liberal
go fuck yourself with a louisville slugger dumbass.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Don't you have to watch your shit head team go take fluke infield hit practice right now?
I hear they’re practice dribblers off 2nd base again.
Dumbass.
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
practicing*
"Look out, Itchy! He’s Irish!"
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Monday - Thursday, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
Things are too quiet right now.
So far, only two trades worth mentioning have occurred (Holliday and Betancourt).
Rumor has it that if the Rays get Lee, they will flip Kazmir to the Angels for Godknowswhat. Unless they trade Jered Weaver in exchange, I’d feel pretty uneasy about the Angels getting Kazmir.
Alma para conquistarte, corazón para quererte, y vida para vivirla junto a ti.
Halladay.
I guess I just don’t see the logic in trading the upper echelon of our talent for a guy in his 30’s that we would control for less than a season and a half. If he was, say 29 and had 3 or 4 full seasons left, then I think you can make a trade involving Smoak AND Feliz/Holland because you know you’re going to get long-term value out of it. But I’m willing to bet that having Smoak, Holland, and Feliz as Rangers will create a ton more wins over the next 6 seasons than Halladay will create in the next season and two months. I’d much rather watch this team go on a run like the Braves of the 90’s than potentially blow the future on a slightly better chance to win in 2009 and 2010.
I’ll agree with those that say Halladay is a legitimate ace and a one-of-a-kind pitcher, but even those guys have reduced value when you’re only guaranteed control of them for less than a season and a half.
Yep
it just doesn’t seem to be worthwhile, when you are talking about maybe 2-3 marginal wins this year plus whatever we get next year. Especially when you are giving up 4-5 prospects, of which 2 are impact prospects.
I don’t think the record of guys back in the pack trading for help at the trade deadline is particularly good.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Exactly
Now, if the D-Backs were in full selling mode and they decided to sell off Dan Haren (which probably won’t happen), then I listen and offer the prospects that are rumored to go off for Halladay
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
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