1 PM RANGERS TRADE UPDATES per Sherman
A lot of Rangers related trade talk, per Joel Sherman....
We thought we had Garko, Blue Jays want 3 from our top-tier and we rejected a trade for Scott Kazmir.
In the late afternoon on Monday, the Rangers
were convinced they were the front-runners to get Ryan Garko from the Indians. They were surprised when he ended up going to the Giants
instead. Texas is still trying to find a righty-hitting first baseman.
The Rangers' No. 1 priority remains a starter, however, and they are very much part of the Roy Halladay sweepstakes. But at the moment Texas has two stumbling blocks when it comes to the Blue Jays ace: Toronto is emphasizing that three of the club's best 5-6 prospects be included and that group is all at either Triple-A or the majors (think Neftali Feliz, Derek Holland and Justin Smoak types) and the Rangers are very concerned about giving up so many high-ceiling, cost-effective youngsters ready to play in the majors now.
But the bigger stumbling block is finances. At the moment, the Blue Jays refuse to either take back a near counterbalance contract such as Vicente Padilla and or take on a chunk of the approximately $7 million left on Halladay's 2009 contract as a way to get into the Rangers' stacked farm system.
The Rangers turned down an offer to bring Scott Kazmir home to Texas. The Rays have shopped Kazmir around a bit, even calling the Mets
, who expressed initial interest but nothing more. Tampa is trying to see if they could trade Kazmir, Carlos Pena and in the right blockbuster even Carl Crawford to free up dollars to make a bigger trade. The Rays are most focused on seeing if they can add Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez in one trade, though they continue to call on Halladay, as well.
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600 comments
Comments
Always weird to see
Texas turning down a TORP guy, even though it undoubtedly made sense in this context. Wonder what the package was—or is this that 3 team nonsense?
And I have a hard time believing that the finances are a bigger hurdle than giving up 3 of the top 5-6 guys. I mean, that’s a fucking gigantic hurdle.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amazing that if we sent them 3 of the top 5-6 guys
they still wouldn’t be willing to take on Padilla’s contract or part of it at least.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's amazing JP's not getting blasted by the media like JD was
usa
by Longhorn on Jul 28, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah, not really
when you consider ESPN bias.
Also, ur trades suck.
usa
by Longhorn on Jul 28, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Rivera has been a beast.
Ramon is not enough and Howell is probably too much.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You need some more offense if you want to win the thing.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you can gain a couple of points in 1 category?
you can gain points in several categories with a couple of offensive upgrades.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When's the last time you
ever saw the Dallas Morning News say a negative thing about JD?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 28, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time believing Roy's reluctance to play for Texas
isn’t the biggest hurdle
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The twins inquired
and were supposedly turned down because roy wouldn’t accept a trade there. doesn’t that automatically mean that roy would accept a trade to texas if the talks are still going?
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are correct.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With us having a down year offensively and our pitching being good
RBIA doesn’t look like the outrageous hitter’s park as once thought, and if experts are to be believed the Rangers future is bright. Why not come here!
by diamond_dave on Jul 28, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still not convinced...
that we won’t get Halladay. I don’t know what we would have to give up, but it seems as if we’re really in it. Hopefully we will only have to give up two of the big guys. That’s still a lot, but it is for one of the TOp guys in the whole league.
Texas Rangers, sometimes they are the windshield, sometimes they are the bug — Evan Grant
by SonnyKoufaxLSU on Jul 28, 2009 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who knows...
we were in it with Zito, Dice-K, Hunter. We always seem to be “in it” nowadays but rarely do we actually “win it”.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
Texas Rangers, sometimes they are the windshield, sometimes they are the bug — Evan Grant
by SonnyKoufaxLSU on Jul 28, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the case for most teams
not named Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking back, I'm happy we didn't get any of the 3
although Torii’s playing pretty well. Still would’ve been a horrible contract.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if we'd've still made the Hambone trade if Torri had come here...
Things like that are always interesting to ponder.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we made the Hambone trade specifically because Torii didn't come here
by Inkara1 on Jul 28, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think thats true
Torri signed with the Angels in November, then that’s when the Hammy talks started up again (Reds and Rangers talked off and on for about 3 months), and then the deal was struck right around Christmas
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I REALLY hate seeing rumors
of the Rangers seeking Halladay. It is not the right time and too costly to trade for him. There is always a TORP on the market in July. Wait until next year.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
There’s not a Doc on the market every year, because there aren’t a lot of Docs around.
He’s a different breed.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
But this team is not one player away from taking the division.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The addition
of 2008 Josh Hamilton and Doc win this division.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell
The 2008 Rangers offense
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2008 offense WITHOUT Roy Halladay...
Wins this division…
by N41D on Jul 28, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2008 offense with Roy Halladay...
Wins the pennant.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2008 offense with Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee
Wins the World Baseball Classic
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
AJM would still write off the Rangers w/ the 2008 offense
and Halladay and Lee.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
o
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2008 offense with the pitching this year
wins it all
by eric03tx on Jul 28, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next year
the pitcher of interest can thrust himself into a bidding war with the AL East teams.
That’s one benefit of going after Halladay, IIRC. Unless they think they can sign Sheets, keep trying to call Ricciardi’s bluff.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a comment directed at you but ....
there is not always a TORP available. Lets just dispense with that myth (which is only being perpetuated by one person here).
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Brett
Didn’t you make a case for NOT trading for Halladay over at the DMN blog?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me?
I don’t post on the DMN blog.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awkward?
He was replying to my comment.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
understandable...
just a little awkward, lol
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I did. I wish I’d been more graphic about what 2011 would look like, though.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Perryman
brettgardner, Josey Wales…. what’s the difference. :)
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bye?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always the clever one.
But we’ll see how you feel when ab30 comes aboard.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i nip that in the bud before it gets traction
the problem you had is that Z changed his name. I have to worry about adam, ben, and maybe a few others changing their name. otherwise, I’m golden
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Brett's new handle doesn't involve these bad boys is beyond me

by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure
You were the only one that found that amusing.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Jul 28, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're either insane or out of the loop completely
you decide.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give up
What’s funny about it?
Is it cuz Zywica and Zebra both start w/ a Z?
Is that the hilarious part?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get the joke either
but Adam thinks it’s funny.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we could give agreen a nickname...
What else starts with A?
How about
assclown?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
x

The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 29, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I love it too.
It’s pretty hilarious.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dumbfounding
I haven’t been this disappointed since you defiantly proclaimed the utter righteouness of Transformers: The Movie.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever.
It’s funny.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Seriously, why?
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. Why is anything funny?
Humor is one of the hardest things to explain.
Why do you think it’s funny to call me Huntressa?
Why do I think it’s funny to call you Tomato Sauce or Old Painty Can Thomas?
I can’t explain it.
I guess the fact that everyone called him Z and then randomness of making the leap from that to do dub him Zebra Cakes just gets me. It’s a pretty humorous nickname for anyone, imo. Plus there’s a bit of childhood nestalgia involved as I used to eat those things as a kid and hadn’t thought about how ridiculous the name actually was.
And, if you need any more of an explanation, there’s a ‘tuded up Zebra on the cover and he’s wearing awesome 80’s sunglasses!
‘Tuded up cartoon animals wearing 80’s shades, FTW!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 29, 2009 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm at least thankful
That the other Brett is a much better poster than me.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other Brett is a much better poster than everyone
He is big; we are little.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say there aren't enough Bretts
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2011
our farm would look like what it did 2 years ago? no, probably better
We’d actually have nobody playing CF? no
we would actually spend some money to get average guys (who might be a little older) in there but we’d have the money and we’d still have drafts to shore us up by then? ding ding ding
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I’m not recognizing any of that other than I assume you’re stretching my Borbon point into saying that they would have nobody playing CF.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will
People say that when we win 70 games in 2011 and 2012 when our team sucks 20 different kinds of ass since we have no talent left
i swear we must be determined to ditch our brilliant plan in favor of fucking the shit of ourselves
fuck this shitty management if they make this deal
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you have traded Blalock, Danks and Diamond for Beckett and Lowell?
Cause we weren’t willing to. So STFU.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
At that time...no I wouldn't have made that trade
Hindsight sucks but at the time turning down that trade was the right call
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it does.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OMG I'm so cornfused!
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought the deal was
Blalock plus either Danks or Diamond, and we hesitated when they asked for Arias too.
by SteveP on Jul 28, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Marlins got the Rangers to agree to that
and used it as leverage with the BoSox to get Hanley Ramirez. The Marlins also didn’t want to take Blalock back.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 28, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's how I understood things after the dust cleared
Although I’m not sure about the Blalock part.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
by WyoRanger on Jul 28, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true but Blalock was still highly coveted and
we could have made it a three-way deal and traded Blalock to the third team and that third team returned the prospects to Florida. And that’s simply speculation on your part to assume that you knew what the Florida GM was doing.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was my understanding that a report came out saying the Marlins didn't want to deal with Blalock's salary or have to make 3-way trade
I don’t really feel like looking through the archives though since it’s a moot point.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 28, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but if we had traded danks
we never would have been able to get mccarthy!
Charter member of the Dutch bandwagon
by rchawk12 on Jul 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would the Braves make the tex trade again
now you go stfu
we are trading for 1 year while pissing away 6 years…even a retard can count that far
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you control
a rookie for 6 years
go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com
by studcrackers on Jul 28, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you won't know if it's too costly until it's done
I’m glad we didn’t just bury our heads in the sand…and I trust that if a deal is made, JD won’t give away too much…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that this is an area where I really trust Daniels
but you’re right, it’s hard to say how good or bad the trade is without actually knowing what the talks actually center around. My only issue is that it would have to be a value, because circumstances aren’t quite right for this sort of a deal for this organization right now.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well beyond the obvious
we still need an OBP bat to insert into the lineup until we’re all a little more comfortable with this offense as playoff caliber
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised that Tampa is actually even considering trading Crawford
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We thought we were the favorites for Garko
Wonder what we offered?
Indians got back Scott Barnes (which could be a Kasey Kiker comp here) and a PTBNL.
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there ended up being a PTBNL, just Barnes.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, didn't know they took out the PTBNL
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing about Barnes
You get the feeling from their comments that they really like him. It probably would have taken someone that we think is a good notch or two better to match him. And I’m not quite sure who that would be in this system, once you’re past the elite guys.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Place your bets in the OC diary!!!
Trade for Ian Snell.
by sprite on Jul 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
where's evan grant?
local media can’t get this info, but a New Yorker can?
Wonder who we where willing to give up for Garko…
usa
by Longhorn on Jul 28, 2009 1:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you actually expect anything different?
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing
The selling team in these scenarios figures to be much more talkative, because they’re the ones trying to drum up a market. It’s not in Daniels’ best interest to talk, nor is it his way of doing things, and that’s where the local media would get their information. I’m sure that once he wants to send some misinformation out, Evan and TR and the FWST guys will be singing.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bluejays will not get the 3 best prospects from Texas or Philly...
They set today as the deadline for a deal because they wanted all of the leverage and did not want to get backed in a corner near the deadline….so far their bluff has not worked.
They keep leaking to the media that Halladay will most likely not be traded to also gain leverage….so far it hasn’t worked.
They keep making crazy trade demands without backing off…so far it hasn’t worked.
We will see when push comes to shove if the BlueJays have the nuts to turn down a solid deal for Halladay knowing his trade value will decrease if he is not traded by the deadline.
I only offer 1 of our top 4…..and any other combination of players. If they get a better deal, then they should take it.
Will they really have the nuts to pass on Feliz if he is in the best deal?
by death of the cool on Jul 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure is fun to read...
I hope you’re right. Cause I do think there’s a surprisingly large field of suitors.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd cry myself to sleep if we sold the farm for Halladay at this point.
I just don’t think we’re in a position to deal Smoak + Feliz and other upper level prospects for one pitcher, no matter how great he is.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The best part of trading for Halladay is knowing you still have Moreland, Bianucci, Scheppers, Purke, Main, MaxRam, etc., etc.
by oc on Jul 28, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think that guys like
Moreland, Bianucci and Ramirez cover for those players? And Scheppers and Purke aren’t even in the organization yet, and their signings would be made dicier by all of the money you have to spend on Halladay.
The Rangers made this same mistake in that Baines deal referenced just below. They convinced themselves that they have Sosa covered by Kevin Belcher and Alvarez covered by Brian Bohanon. And those guys were a lot closer than the ones you mentioned.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Harold Baines is no Doc.
Trade for Ian Snell.
by sprite on Jul 28, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doc in Arlington, career
63 IP, 73 H, 8 HR, 18 BB, 44 K, 6.14 ERA, 1.44 WHIP
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zito in Arlington career
11-1, 3.75 era lol
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
your posting that kind of proves how obtuse you are being
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they don't call him cakes for nothing
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vs Texas in Toronto
61ip 71h 5HR 14BB 54K 4.57era.
Not a huge difference.
Trade for Ian Snell.
by sprite on Jul 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd buy the argument about the ballpark with Lee
but with Halladay, I’d put his numbers more to the fact that he’s had to face what used to be a pretty good Rangers offense
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
by hinduplaya on Jul 28, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, obviously not
It’s just that he could come here and be solid, not amazing.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe
That you honestly believe that.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That a pitcher could go through a slump?
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A slump?
What are you talking about?
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you posturing that Halladay (if traded for) is 100% positively going to be an ace for us?
Ace bing 7-9 innings, 1-3 runs every start?
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
yeah.
"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no independence quite so important, as living within your means" - Calvin Collidge
by hubcityraider on Jul 28, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you
Aware of Roy Halladay?
He’s not some up-and-coming prospect.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me a pitcher ...
who gives 7-9 innings, 1-3 runs every start. I mean … one that isn’t in a video game.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um ... no
If the definition of an “Ace” (as stated by BuckyB) is at least seven innings and less than four runs EVERY START then Halladay isn’t an ace. Six times this year he has failed to meet the requirements.
My point is if that’s your definition of an Ace then there are no aces. No pitcher can meet those requirements.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be ridiculous. Halladay is the crême de la crême
by oc on Jul 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just think he's saying the definition is stupid
not that halladay isn’t an ace
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ace or not
i wish i could count on a starting pitcher to go 7 innings or more in 70% of his starts
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't believe that Halladay
could have 13 more games like the 11 he’s had so far?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
numbers are twisted around there, since only half of the 13 would come in Arlington. So 6-7 more I guess.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
Dude hasn’t pitched well against the Rangers.
What’s your point?
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sosa?
really?
davis was covering for smoak about 13 months ago and holland wasn’t even on the radar 15 months ago.
i think we’re still top 10 even if we lose a pitcher + smoak.
I don’t think we have to make this deal but I wouldn’t be opposed
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point isn't where the system would rank
It’s what position it would be in to finish supplementing the team that isn’t quite built.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are trading away a 1B, a ready pitcher, possibly an OF, and a lower level pitcher
we need to supplement the 1b (but we think we have at least an average one).
we could always use more pitching but in the short term, we’re getting a better one back and in the long term – who knows. we’ll ahve some money to work with, maybe we can grab another
OF – there is already a logjam of sorts but I don’t think it is unreasonable to roll with who we have and I can’t imagine Borbon’s stock has gone up so much that he’s all of a sudden indispensable.
And lower level pitcher – meh.
It is really about smoak and the pitcher and I think davis makes the loss palatable and we can deal with the pitcher loss in the future. I don’t think it is assinine to go for it now. we would still have a very good team this year (at least better) and a very good team next year (again, probably better than if we don’t make the trade). 2011 – you can worry about that later.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we trade Borbon
Maybe wed resign Byrd…
Perhaps that will change peoples mind and force them to balk at the trades
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is where the Purke and Scheppers signings come into play
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do wonder though
If we get halladay…that is a shitload of money
i wouldnt be surprised if that negates our ability of signing those 2
so now what if you basically had to add those 2 picks to the Halladay trade…i think im gonna go cry some out of fear
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it?
Whats not built if we acquired halladay and a RH DH/1b? Its not like we plan on replacing Hamilton/Kinsler just because they have been questionable this year.
Take away a few of the top guys and you’ve still got your infield and outfield locked up(unless you’ve completely lost confidence in CD), several key bullpen guys…. the only thing that would truly be missing is an ace in 2011 after Halladay is gone… but theres no guarantee whatever 2 pitchers we give up turn into one or that one of our other dozen good pitching prospects don’t turn into one. Or that we get creative in trades at other points or ownership manages a good FA contract.
I think this team is set up to still be good in 2011 without a few top prospects, and it’d be better in 2009 and 2010 with halladay thats for sure.
That said I did vote no on giving several fo the top guys yesterday.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to think some money is earmarked for Sheets.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is your rotation in 2011 then?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is 2 years away
If we would have asked the same question 2 years ago, nobody would have included Feldman, Hunter, or Holland in their answer.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
by tricer on Jul 28, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is interesting logic
Trade your best guys because, who knows, the lesser guys might be the ones who turn out good.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think my post implied that
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
by tricer on Jul 28, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that it answered my question of
the 2011 consequences of doing that trade didn’t?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, its also a very good point. Planning that far ahead with pitching prospects is very difficult.
and if there is one thing we almost will certaintly have even with this trade, is still an incredible depth of young arms, any of whom could turn out to be studs.
However, if i had my choice, Id have no problem if we dealt a package of Smoak, Feliz, Teagarden, Kiker, and some younger dude. But id have a serious problem if they deal Perez + a Smoak/Feliz package.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not in 2011
We have a lot of youth in the A ball area….not AA and AAA
2 studs for 1 pitcher…i swear our fans mustve had a hell of a lot of fun in the 60s/70s…and then they hit themselves in the head with a bat, a lot
2 top 10 prospects…are people fuckin serious around here
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that part of the problem
not part of the solution? I think to be a solid (and consistent contender) a team needs to be able to predict at least who will comprise 60% of it’s rotation a couple of years out. If not, developing or trading for replacements is a time consuming (and inexact) exercise.
by twinkilling on Jul 28, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way you can hit 60%
Is to have three starters already in your rotation that are under contract for two years.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that so difficult to imagine?
Or you could have 3 or 4 very good prospects that all have a well above chance to be part of the rotation in 24 months (sound like any team you know).
by twinkilling on Jul 28, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is nearly impossible to predict
but I don’t mind giving up prospects for Halladay because I trust the rangers abilities to draft. plus the rangers have so many good pitching prospects currently that surely a few will turn into viable rotation candidates.
another thing that no one is mentioning is the fact that you will get some very good draft picks if halladay chooses free agency
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if its the case that an ace is always available for trade as some people believe here
then just trade for another ace when halladay is gone
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't
but someone said it earlier in this thread
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At that point
You’re just saying trade whoever is necessary to maintain one spot in your rotation. And I don’t think that’s wise.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well hopefully the rangers will be in a better financial situation
and can get an ace in free agency
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy
Halladay, Danks, Diamond, Volquez, Hurley…wait fuck.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about being serious?
(Halladay) Holland, Hurley, Feldman, Hunter (Beavan) (Main)
by oc on Jul 28, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully scheppers is in the equation at that point also
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scheppers is going to blow through the minors in one season and be a reliable part of a rotation?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing wrong with my suggestion, is there...
by oc on Jul 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you could also add martin perez to that list
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez is going to start next season in High A as an 18 year old (turns 19 in April) and be in the rotation by the start of the next season?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im pretty sure you yourself suggested he'd be in AA
he’d be 20 by 2011.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suggested that he'll start next season in AA
or I suggested that he’ll see AA next season? I’ve never done the former and the latter doesn’t conflict with that I said above. He’ll start in A+, and there is a good chance that he’ll see AA. But that doesn’t mean that he’ll be ready to start 2011 in the rotation.
And like I said, he turns 19 on April 4 and will therefore turn 20 in 2011 on April 4, so he’ll be turning from 19 to 20 right as that season begins. No way you start a guy like that in your rotation if you expect to go be a contender because he’d be useless by August.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What reason do you see to put him in High A?
I mean, he really does not have much to prove in Single A anymore and would be wise to push him into Double A to give him a challenge
Besides, I don’t want him pitching at Bakersfield (or wherever they move that team next year)
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parks:
Perez is the Elvis Andrus of the mound and will probably see major league action before his 21st birthday.
http://www.bbtia.com/home/2009/7/10/professor-parkss-top-35-rangers-prospect-rankings.html
I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten a promo yet, though I still think it happens this year…
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seeing major league action before his 21st birthday
is different from slotting him in your 2011 rotation, wouldn’t you say?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, we may not have best projection of a rotation in 2011 if we deal Feliz or Holland
but you can also say we still project to have a great rotation 2012 and beyond with one of Holland/Feliz, Feldman, Hunter, Hurley/Harrison, Kiker/Beavan/Poveda, Perez, Ross, Font, Wieland… by that time, 5 of those guys should probably be capable of pitching for us at the big league level. That doesnt even include a FA signing which would probably happen pre 2011 season with the increased revenue of a couple winning seasons in a row, and the departure of several big contracts in Milly and Halliday.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i forgot Scheppers who could be ready by 2011 if he is healthy.
he should start next season in AA or at least High A and see plenty of time in AA in 2010.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, actually I agree with that...
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think it is out of the question
some people had him going to AA by the end of the year if he would have signed as soon as he was drafted
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's not going to sign in time
which means he will have barely pitched competitively in about a year and only have college and independent league ball under his belt. He will take longer than that.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is most likely the case
where would you start him next year if he has a 2008 porcello type spring training?
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d start him in High A if he looks really good, Low A if he looks a little rusty, but with the intention of bumping him to High A pretty quickly.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
No one wants to answer that b/c they know we have virtually no one there if we trade for Roy
Millwood-gone
Feliz-gone
Padilla-gone
Halladay-gone
Beavan (whoever)-gone
we will have a grab bag of shit to work with basically and we’ll just be praying that it works out, no thx
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
holland is shit?
i don’t get how halladay made it so that all those other guys left. might as well right
Kenny Rogers – gone
Kevin Brown – gone
Charlie Hough – gone
Fergie Jenkins – gone
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i dont think padilla and millwood are guys you can't replace
Seems like for millwood’s 13 million (or whatever it is exactly) we could get another of his quality. Or re-sign him for less than that heh.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Moreland.
and Main.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The good news
is that this probably all coming from the Toronto end. What is the answer to not getting two of Philadelphia’s best prospects? Ask for three even more highly regarded players from Texas! Makes perfect sense.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could you overwhelm them with quantity?
I know JP is being stubborn…
But would the Rangers have any chance at all if they tried something along the lines of:
Davis + Beaven + Kiker + Main + Ross + Vallejo + Beltre?
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that's a ton to give up, but
Our current core + Smoak, Feliz, Holland, Perez (and Halladay) would leave me giddy about our future.
I’m just not sure if that is an insult or not to Toronto go try for
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not comfortable with that
I’m not saying it’s a terrible deal. It just makes me uncomfortable.
And I’m not sure JP can look himself in the mirror without bringing home one of the core guys you mention above.
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
by TheJeezus on Jul 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I just feel like that is the best way to take advantage of the “depth” of our system, rather than giving up all of the top guys.
I feel like if push came to shove for JP, he would have to love having that package of players rather than being left with Halladay. I know he wants AAA + guys, I’m just wondering if this would even get considered
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not sure that it works like that.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me neither
But I feel like as a GM [which I’m not, unfortunately], I would rather have { Davis, Beaven, Kiker, Main, Ross, Vallejo, and Beltre } than I would { Buchholz, Bowden, and Westmoreland }.
I could be way off, though, I just feel like our offer would hold so much more promise
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is a shitload of quantity
and there is a good amound of quality to boot
2 1st rounders and 2 supplementals there right
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa trade
JD, remember 1989
As tempting as it may be, this is not the time for the Rangers to make their move, just as it wasn’t the right time when Grieve gambled, and lost, on Baines in the summer of ’89.
“It was too soon,” Grieve said Monday as he leaned against the Rangers’ batting cage before the Rangers and Red Sox opened a three-game series. “We were almost exactly where this organization is right now.”
Of course, Grieve now has hindsight at his disposal, but he cuts himself no slack.
“We should have known we weren’t as good a team as the A’s were,” Grieve said. “They were four or five games ahead of us and we weren’t going to catch them, even if Harold Baines had been what we thought he would be. We should have done a better job of evaluating the situation.”
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Last good point Greggo made.
Trade for Ian Snell.
by sprite on Jul 28, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pre-drugs and when his voice changed and stuff
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had some ice...
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
by TheJeezus on Jul 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I forgot how passionate Greggo was, hah.
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
by Conjunction on Jul 28, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Tom is being very generous
"We were almost exactly where this organization is right now."
Yeah … look at that 1989 team. You have exactly two offensive starters under 30 that be above average hitters (Palmerio and Sierra). That team’s future wasn’t nearly as positive as this team.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the idea is the same though
It is a good team that isnt great…you dont go all in with that team, ever
Boston, Phillie, those teams are ready so they can afford to make the gamble
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rangers are 13 games over .500
they are just as ready as those other teams
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston has offered Buchholz, Bowden and Westmoreland for Doc
by texasrfan on Jul 28, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Solid
But I have a feeling Toronto will ask for one more piece, probably Bard. Because Ricciardi is looking for the jackpot.
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
by Conjunction on Jul 28, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is their Moreland better than our Moreland?
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Westmoreland is better.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah.
Definitely a higher ceiling.
He’s a bit of a risky guy, though. Most of his value is tied into whether you believe he’s over his injury woes and if you believe he can stick in center.
Moreland doesn’t have the ceiling to compete with Westmoreland in prospect-iness, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The real kicker in who's better
Is if Westmoreland can stay in CF and also that he has better speed than Moreland
Both had good contact with the bat and power, but Westmoreland’s position and speed puts him higher and way better
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way
plus he’s segregated to a certain direction…ours is free of restraints
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we will have to offer feliz and smoak + to beat that
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to wonder how Toronto feels about dealing to Boston.
FWIW though I think Feliz + Smoak beats that package just by themselves, but that would largely depend on what you think of Bowden (He’s pretty “Meh”, imo) and whether you think Fleas is gonna stick as a starter (I believe he will).
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you agree that Tommy Hunter and Bowden are the same guy with Hunter the better right now?
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 28, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Kinslerhomer
you want to get off my ass in our fantasy league?
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
No way.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 28, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One would have to think
For the Jays to trade Doc in their own division, they would want a kings ransom from the Yanks or the Soxs.
That deal is not a kings ransom. Lars Anderson and/or Bard would have to be added to that to even be considered
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing sig...was that from an article or a podcast?
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the BS Report Podcast
The one with Bill Simmons. Did one with Keith Law bout a month ago, and they were talking about Texas’ minor league system. Simmons (being a huge Soxs homer) actually knows a bit about our system, and is in love with Smoak, and would do anything to get him. So that’s where the quote came from
Was a really good podcast between him and Law. I highly recommend it
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would you?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoak for Buchholz?
That’s a tough one. I mean, yeah we need pitching, but then again the risk of a pitcher succeeding in the major is higher than a positional player.
I do think Smoak has the tools to make it in the bigs and have a successful career. Buchholz really hasn’t shown much in the majors and is said to have an attitude problem. I would think long and hard but I would say no to that trade
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to think long and hard, but, probably.
I love both players, but when in doubt, go with the pitcher with ace potential over the 1b with masher ceiling.
If I was named GM for a day or whatever and this trade came across my desk I’d call my scouts and assistants into the room and say, “I’m leaning towards making this deal. Anyone who wants to can have until the end of the day to convince me otherwise.”
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is me, mean mugging that fool trying to talk you out of it all day
Pow pow, go the daggers from my eyes…
Pow.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Bard and Anderson are in the same category anymore.
Anderson’s taken a pretty large step back while Bard’s made a huge leap.
Bard has looked unhittable.
He’s got a 20:0 k/bb over his last 11.1 innings.
That shouldn’t be possible.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
Anderson has been a huge disappointment this year, and now you hear a ton of scouts are down on him. He might not be a Top-50 prospect by the end of the season anymore
But I do believe if Boston wants Doc (one of the best pitchers in the game) they have to part with a lot more than other teams. The Jays don’t want Doc to be in the same division with them.
So really the only way for Boston to get him they got to part with a lot, and Bard will probably have to be in that deal. That might be the deal killer though for Boston though
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's definitely not a top 50 prospect anymore.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that top Phillies offer?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its close
But what this deal does is it probably gets Philly to include Drabek in a deal, cause it will scare the Phils into thinking that they won’t get him
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It cracks me up
The phils wont include Drabek but we’ll include Feliz AND Smoak?…wtf
this according to some here
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it does
Philly’s offer was sneaky. They have the right caliber of guys where they were able to just drop down a notch on a couple of them, but that notch is what this is all about for Toronto.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Buchholz is starting to get the stink
of a player who simply cannot make their minor league numbers translate to a similar level of major league success. In reality, it is probably too early to tell that, but I think his value has probably taken a pretty big hit among execs, even if it hasn’t among fans.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Jul 28, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not until they find a SS to include
that seems to be the sticking point.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
by clark on Jul 28, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That package needs one more impact arm and they Jays want a SS... so add Casey Kelly! Two birds, one stone! BOOSH!!!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i offer feliz, davis, and borbon
if they don’t want it, they don’t have to take it
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then holland then
although I don’t agree
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Der-Hol trades, either.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Martin perez?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, if we traded Perez
I’ll call up Josey myself and me and him will lead the charge to JD’s office with pitchforks….
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we're back to feliz
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, we're back to me not wanting to trade either.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only Marcus Lemon trades.
Trade for Ian Snell.
by sprite on Jul 28, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a GREAT IDEA!
Let’s send them Neftali Perez!
When I see a solar eclipse I think "oh no, is the moon eating the sun?"
by Section 339 on Jul 28, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon barely qualifies as a throw-in
so is McCarthy and his stress-fractured vagina
by Telegraph on Jul 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id rather trade him than Smoak
(id rather just stand pat though, we arent ready)
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could probably
live with that. I still don’t think that the situation dictates that kind of offer, but it is fair value-wise.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
1:57pm: Yahoo’s Gordon Edes reports that the Red Sox offered Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland to the Blue Jays for Halladay. In my opinion, that is a very strong offer. Edes says the Jays would like to acquire a shortstop since they are “vigorously shopping” Marco Scutaro. That means the Sox might need to get creative.
Edes says Daniel Bard and Casey Kelly “have been declared off-limits by the Red Sox.” And while the Dodgers deem Clayton Kershaw untouchable, they’ve at least discussed internally the possibility of moving Chad Billingsley. Billingsley might be the best name we’ve heard yet in connection with Halladay, though remember that Edes labeled that an internal discussion.
didn’t we have a chance of getting bowden and bard for salty? now one’s in a trade for doc and the other is off limits…
usa
by Longhorn on Jul 28, 2009 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Prospects' value are extremely volatile
see Hurley, Salty, Teagarden, MaxRam, Main, etc.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis, Hamilton, Harrison, Diamond, ...
And remember when Laynce Nix was highly coveted?
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers, eh?
Maybe they can send a Luke Prokopec-type and find lighting in a bottle twice.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Jul 28, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, that didn't make much sense
i think i just wanted to name-drop Luke Prokopec.
Apologies.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Jul 28, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we could get the Dodger's Hu
and flip him to the Jays. That would solve the payroll problem and get the Jays the shortstop prospect they want.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 28, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodger's Hu + Our flu = Nu Jays' SS!!
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if the Cubs would be willing to deal Jake Fox, maybe for some relief help.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the guy I wanted all winter.
DH only, IMO…but a helluva bat. JJ anyone?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DO IT!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holland, Davis, Teagarden and Beavan for Halladay?
Wouldya?
by Topgun22 on Jul 28, 2009 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I could at least avoid burning all of my Rangers gear with that
You’re shorting yourself one key guy later on, so it’s a more direct now/later type of call, rather than a compound issue.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
100%
Yes.
"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no independence quite so important, as living within your means" - Calvin Collidge
by hubcityraider on Jul 28, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this would be a great trade for us
Smoak replaces Davis; we don’t need Teagarden; we have an mlb-ready Beavan in Hunter right now; and we trade the potential of Holland for 1.5 seasons of Holland’s best case scenario, a true TORP.
by naropean on Jul 28, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riccardi wouldn't even return JD's call
with that offer.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's better than the counteroffer Philly made.
Or at least on the same basic level.
Der-Hol, Crush, Beavan, Tea > Carrasco, Donald, Taylor, Happ.
At least ours has a stud at the top, which I don’t think the Phillies offer has unless you’re butt wild about Taylor, which I’m not really, though he is pretty darn good.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
I get that certain prospects are can’t miss but the 4 that we have deemed aren’t all can’t miss. in fact, I’m willing to bet that a Halladay trade that involved 2 of the 4 with some filler will only leave us hurting because of one guy.
I also get that good prospects are way more valuable than rental Halladays but people are overvaluing the likelihood that these guys actually hit. we will probably come back to this thread in 5 years and think “man, we weren’t willing to trade for Halladay because of those guys?”
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or
man we traded all of those guys for a fruitless 2 year run?!
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, dipshit
i see what you did there but you’re wrong
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's a question
you think if gagne had worked otu even marginally that the redsox would regret making that trade?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Red Sox didn't give
up players who were central to their plans for the next seven years. I appreciate your point and would say no, they would make the trade again, but it’s just so different when the magnitude is decreased. What if they’d dealt Lester, Youkilis and Papelbon in short term efforts to get good earlier in the decade? What if the Yankees had decided in 1995 that Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera were better used to bring in a super stud like David Cone for a year and a third? Obviously way, way worst case scenarios, but we are talking about high octane players here too, not just random solid prospects. I would sing a completely different tune about anyone else in the organization aside from six or seven central guys. It just so happens that Smoak and Feliz are in AAA, and Holland hasn’t had success yet.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 or 7?
that circle is ridiculous. you can reserve it for 4 guys (and I’d still be hesitant to reserve it for perez because of the flameout rate of pitchers). but that’s it.
and still, you were probably going to hit on only one of the pitchers in terms of being truly replaceable. trading two of them isn’t the worst thing in the world.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I say 6 or 7
I’m including guys like Kinsler and Andrus.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think this just comes down to how much you are valuing smoak, holland, and feliz
clearly more than me. which is not to say i don’t appreciate their ceilings but I am having a hard time convincing myself that they all have an above 75% chance of hitting that ceiling.
i think holland has the potential to be fantastic but don’t necessarily see that he is a given #2. I see feliz having an electric arm but don’t even see that he can necessarily be more than a closer.
well you pay attention to those guys a lot more than i do (which could also lead to your overvaluing them). I just think given the variability of prospects and ratings (even in the upper echelons), I think it just seems impossible to be able to attribute such high values to them.
and when you have such a sure thing in halladay…
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So say we have Halladay for 1.3 years
and it costs us 2 of Holland/Feliz/Smoak to get him, plus guys like Borbon and Beavan. Do you think that the extent of this team’s window is 1.3 years? Because if we do that deal, that’ll be our only opportunity to compete, and in 2011, Hallady and Millwood are FAs, guys like Feldman and Hunter and Hamilton get expensive, and we’re faced with a team of aging veterans with several holes on the ML club.
It’s not that people don’t value Halladay, it’s the fact that the amount of time the Rangers would control him does not coincide with the prime years of the current core.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great
another doomsday 2011 scenario. we apparently traded away the 4 best players that would have headlined 2011 and can’t find replacements through drafts or FA. apparently those 4 make us a young team, but without them we are aging veterans.
spare me.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who exactly
do we have to replace him? You’d be trading away the majority of your ML ready prospects.
If Halladay walks with Millwood, what does our roster look like for 2011? You keep saying that it’s a doomsday scenario, but it’s a very plausible situation.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we dont' get halladay and millwood walks
we are in the SAME BOAT as we would be post trade except we have one less pitcher of holland/feliz. If you don’t think our farm is good enough to give us one guy like that then so be it.
i am a little hesitant to attribute our farm success to luck
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No we're not
because right now we have the talent to potentially plug in those holes. If Millwood walks, it’s fine, his true talent level is less than that of Halladay’s and we have 2 premium blue-chip guys that could potentially fill in.
If Halladay and Millwood walks, you’re looking at either throwing in a vast majority of your resources into 2 players or replacing the 1 and 2 in your rotation without the necessary depth to do so.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't under the impression
That Millwood would be doing anything but walking no matter what.
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to add to it,
where is the money to replace these young/inexpensive guys going to come from? We’ll soon be entering territory where MY will be making close to 12-13M/yr, Kins will be making 6-10M, Hamilton might be making close to 10M, Cruz/Wilson/FF might be making 5M+.
Is there going to be any money left to go after guys that are going to replace the production of the guys we replace? I don’t think so.
by behindthebag on Jul 28, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If something doesn't change with Kinsler/Hamilton
We will be able to replace their production for well below those numbers.
by diamond_dave on Jul 28, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then ....
by 2011 Martin Perez, Wilmer Font, Michael Main, among others will be knocking on the door or ready for the the big leagues.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have been
exceptionally lucky with our prospect health the last few years. I think people really don’t appreciate how good of arms that guys like Holland/Feliz are. The chances that Perez/Font/Main/Purke/Scheppers et al can be ready as quickly and as impressively as our current crop are about as likely as the chances that all our prospects hit their ceilings – 0.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only one of them
we only need one to replace the irreplaceable one of holland/feliz that we are trading away
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it
Feliz and Holland have an intrinsic, unrealized value due to their potential. People are arguing whether that potential value (which may or may not be realized, with a certain probability) is worth a Halladay, whose value is very real.
Now, people are arguing whether Purke, Font, Perez, etc have a potential to reach Feliz and Holland’s value – which again is entirely potential. It’s like a 2nd order potential.
I don’t know what this means, but it does suggest that a more sophisticated prospect valuation system is needed (definitely more sophisticated than the top 10 prospect is worth $15 million blah blah BtB stuff)
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jul 28, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which brings up a good point
even if we never develop an ace, i think there’s still a good chance we can develop one of those other guys into an ace prospect, which is really all that feliz and holland are if we trade one of them.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument centers around variance.
A prospect may have an “expected value” of $25M (V. Wang’s research, etc etc); however, there is significant variance around that value, and the distribution of the value is strongly skewed leftward (i.e., the mean is greater than the median/mode).
Therefore, you could evaluate the value of trading high variance commodities (prospects) for low variance commodities (provens). Additionally, while a prospect may have an expected value of 25M, you also need to discount that value to today’s terms.
In baseball, I’d expect 10% to be a reasonable discounting rate, so for a prospect like Perez, he might fall into the $6M expectation category, but to Toronto in this trade he is more like a $4.5M value in return (assumes 3 years until ML maturation, and all value in first year).
I’d also expect there to be some expectation of the trading club to gain some of the “playoff surplus” gained by making a deadline deal. Therefore, while the BtB analysis suggested that Halladay is worth $25M in value over the next 1.3 years, I do not believe that an equivalent exchange of $25M in prospects would be in Toronto’s favor as they are taking on a larger risk than the buyers.
by Trickman on Jul 28, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree completely
Not to mention that the biggest flaw, IMO, to any of these valuation measures is that they assume linearity in valuation. Not only do they not discount prospect’s risk sufficiently (you point out that the mean result is skewed, the median projection for a Martin Perez may be $0 value), nor discount estimated time of arrival (say 10% a year, as you suggest), but they also assume that players add linearly. Say Halladay is worth $25 million over the next 1.3 seasons. Well, obviously Toronto should want more than just 5 $5million players. Probably no combination of $5million players would pry him away. They’d probably want a $20 million, a $10 million, and a few $5 millions.
You get to my analogy from a while back about stock options. If my 401K was worth $500K in liquid assets, and my company offered me $500K worth of high risk stock options (10% chance they’d be worth $5 million total, 90% chance they’d be worth $0); I’d laugh at them. Instead, I’d demand that they give me some combination of lower risk options and some established, real-valued assets, along with the high risk. But it’d be worth a LOT more than the $500K I have in hand on paper.
This is why Toronto would at least consider the Angel’s offer of Saunders, Wood, and Reckling (or something like that). Because while most likely Saunders will be worth much less than Drabek or Holland, he’s actually worth something real right now. Whereas those other guys aren’t.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Jul 28, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very true, in nearly every endeavor
the low risk options are ‘worth’ more. We are a risk adverse race. Thats why we have insurance companies.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it was that simple
Thomas Diamond would be in our rotation right now. None of these arms are guaranteed but the more we have, the better chances some hit.
Halladay is a total stud and I’d love to see him here. But the combination of top-shelf talent, limited control and price tag just scare me away. I’ll take my chances and wait another year or two. Maybe we flip Scheppers+ for whoever the next big ace on the market is.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
by TheBZA on Jul 28, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear youve lost it recently
Are you dying?…b/c that shit is the only logical explanation for why you are so deliriously hyper about winning this year or next and quitting in 2011+
Rental players suck 1001 different kinds of ass
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the hardest part
of the rebuilding process, sticking with the plan and having players develop together. It’s what teams like Tampa and Philli did and it’s why they’re such good teams right now. No, not everyone of those players are going to hit, but if you keep a core together, they hit their prime years together. And then, when you’re positive you’re one player away, that’s when you can start talking about selling the farm to make a run.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
On the importance of hitting their primes together
by BuckyB on Jul 28, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
our core is fairly set
we aren’t really deciding who’s going to stick, who isn’t. And we aren’t really trading away guys that we need in the future. we are trading away one of two first basemen, one pitcher for another, and some lower level guys that i doubt anybody was really truly counting on for a run.
we’re by all accounts ready to contend next year but apparently doing the deal 3 months in advance and getting a chance at the post season this year is just plain wrong.
it is just ludicrous that you’re willing to deal Mar. 30 next year but not this year. are you also willing to part with the same package next year?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not just "dealing one of our 2 firstbaseman"
we’re dealing one when we don’t know which one is going to stick and be a part of this club’s future success. We’re dealing players before we have a good read on them, and doing that creates holes for this club in the future when we’re ready to compete.
The reason people value prospect depth is not because it allows them to make trades, it’s because it increases the chance that one of those guys will get it and be a valuable contributor in the future. We don’t know how the Davis/Smoak situation will work out yet. Dealing so much for Halladay now just creates potential problem situations in the future.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but really
we are talking about 1b. pretty much assured that either one plays great defense. but if we end up with the one that doesn’t hit, we can go get another 1b bat. we’ve developed like 4 of them this decade like it ain’t no thing. i can’t get alarmed about trading away a bat like that. people are so sure that smoak is mantle, than trade away davis.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's almost as
foolish to assume that because we had a great deal of luck in developing 1Bs, that this will continue in the future. Teixeira and Smoak were rare falls in the draft. Gonzalez developed power when he never had any in the minors. It’s up to Davis to see if he develops his patience.
A hole at 1B is a big problem, as this year’s team has shown. I think you’re undervaluing (quite severely) how difficult it is to obtain young, developing and cost-controlled power.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you're just so sure that if we trade away one, the other is going to hit
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I'm not
I’m not sure how the 1B situation or the catcher situation will work out. I’m not sure how the OF alignment will look in the future. Or who will be a starter and who will be a pen arm. That’s where we are as a team…we got a lot of talent, but we’re not sure if any of them will work out. that’s why I advocate keeping depth, especially blue chip prospect depth.
Yeah, chances are that not all of them will hit their ceilings. It could even be that none of them hits their ceilings, but chances are it’s somewhere in the middle. Given that, I’d hate to trade away our depth when we, as a team, are not at the point where one player puts us over the top.
Right now, I see the majority of our team as question marks. If we trade away blue chip depth for Halladay, what we’re left with is less potential answers for those questions. I don’t really see the difference between a team of question marks and Michael Young vs. a team of question marks and Michael Young + Roy Halladay.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely correct! Hank walks after the season-who plays 1b, Smoak or Davis? Are you sure yet which one is going to be able to play at the MLB level?
Hank walks after the season-who plays 1b, Smoak or Davis? Are you sure yet which one is going to be able to play at the MLB level?
Byrd, Padilla, Jones, Guardado, Jennings all go away after this season(probably), FF has had arm issues this season—who fills these spots adequately if give up a crazy package for Halladay?
firebat is right-the more ready or near-ready prospects you have, the more likely you are to find ones who can play at the mlb level.
This thing is not quite complete, yet. Stay the course.
Never argue with a fool. Onlookers might not be able to tell you apart.
by randyd on Jul 28, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this is dead on
It’s hard to accept when you’re in the middle of it, but it’s reality.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patience is a fucking virtue
Some, ab03, are severely lacking
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Rangers related, or especially newsworthy
But Boston just sent Kotsay + cash to the White Sox for Brian Anderson, who wanted out of Chicago. Sucks for him, as it doesn’t appear that he’ll have any more playing time in Boston either.
by Outworlder47 on Jul 28, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Caught off guard by the Billingsley comment
Never thought the Dodgers would even discuss Billingsley. If they would discuss him externally, why don’t we turn our attention to overpaying for him? I always would rather trade with the National League so we don’t get killed by players we traded away. Meeting them in the World Series is fine with me though!!
He is 25, controllable for longer and just needs to cut down the walks to be a FOTRP. I don’t have all the formulas and ratios, so if you do please give us his details!
I would start with Holland, Borbon, Kiker, and Poveda. If he is worth it, what are your thoughts.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
by pbpsean on Jul 28, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Halladay > Billingsley
and Torre is not getting any younger. I can see him wanting to wait on young pitchers to develop.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
Never thought the Dodgers would even discuss Billingsley. If they would discuss him externally, why don’t we turn our attention to overpaying for him? I
Because we don’t have a Roy Halladay to trade them.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 28, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some around here need some help apparently.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 28, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT from Trade Talk- Padilla Scratched again
Being replaced by Mathis Per Evan Grant
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So now we are going millwood-feldman-hunter-holland-mathis in the middle of a pennant race
I’m glad Hunter has been great so far, but would anyone be surprised if he had a high 4s or above ERA the rest of the way?
Or if padilla missed a third of his remaining starts for various reasons?
And Holland, who I still completely believe in, isn’t showing any signs of getting it together this year.. at this point I’d see no harm in sending him back to AAA to work on what hes learned if we could get another SP. Or to the pen.
Even if its nowhwere near halladay we NEEEEEEED a starting pitcher.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the hell does that have to do with shooting...
oh. nevermind.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shoot on the stars...
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently the Phillies are poking the Pirates...
gauging how they feel about Zach Duke.
Interest? he’s signed through ’11.
by cmkelly29 on Jul 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather offer Arias or some other crap and try for Snell
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if it was that easy Snell would be a Ranger right now.
We inquired him at various point this season already and the word was they wanted real value back and weren’t just going to dump a guy as talented as he is.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know why no one wants Duke....
He’s been solid this year, although I’m biased bc my first varsity high school at bat was against him.
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God im glad Feliz was moved to the bullpen
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
feliz up for the bullpen tonight?
padilla to 15 day dl?
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
call up arias, put him at dh, bat him lead-off, and cross your fingers.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that'd be a fun game
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By fun...
…you mean “unbelievably frustrating”?
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
by ghtd36 on Jul 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why the Rangers are
BUILT FOR FUN!
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
by FirebatM3 on Jul 28, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Arias has actually been killing the ball recently
but i get the humor
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely he will be
He’d still be available this weekend if hes ready, he last pitched on july 17th.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bullpen start
and Nippert is probably unavailable. This should be Moscoso’s day to pitch for OKC but Shroom has Corey starting for them. Has Moscoso been summoned to Arlington? Sure wish Nippert had an option. Does Mathis get optioned after the game so there is a fresh arm in the bullpen?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, why not Moscoso?
DL Padilla, bring up Moscoso, and send him back down after the game, bringing up a position player. If needed, you can also option Eyre or Mathis to bring in a fresh arm, whether that’s Madrigal, Feliz, or whomever.
by Outworlder47 on Jul 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just reading Parks/Cole twitter comments...
Why not Moscoso in place of Padilla?
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's even his night to start...
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too, i get the feeling if he's ever given a legitimate shot at a SP spot
he’ll prove himself to be a pretty solid pitcher.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a thought
Is it possible that Moscoso is getting called up to pitch tonight, but it’s possible that he just now got the call? If so, he may not get to the ballpark in time to make normal starting preparations, so he’ll be the first reliever in. Just a thought.
by Outworlder47 on Jul 28, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would've been the most amazing thing to see
Padilla coming out in a gas mask
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl CRAWFORD
if he is available with Kazmir, I would rather do that than trade for Halladay, I’ve the Manliest of crushes on Carl Crawford for his entire career, what do you think that would take?
by blueballlefty on Jul 28, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But we don't really need him...
Is he really that much better than the murphy/byrd platoon? He’d be gone after 2010.
And I don’t see why the rays would trade him anyway.
I do have interest in kazmir though. I watched some of one of his starts and he didnt look that far off.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you just say we don't need Carl Crawford?
do we not need a leadoff hitter? .371 OBP with high average, some power, and tons of stolen bases…that can play defense?
I’d bite at that offer for sure
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No apparently not because our offense is just that damn good!
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
We could figure out what to do with Byrd and Murphy at that point.
Crawford leading off and in left? Shit yeah, that’s defensively and offensively an improvement.
by Trickman on Jul 28, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course we would want him but we don't have anything to offer Tampa Bay
they want an elite hitter and an elite pitcher. What do we have? Are you trading them Ian Kinsler or Josh Hamilton for Carl Crawford? If not, the discussion is over.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
justin smoak and derek holland or neftali feliz are pretty elite
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you've also got to consider...
…what Crawford means to that franchise. He’s the original TB Face of the Franchise. Trading him would be like the Rangers trading Michael Young: regardless of whether it improves the team or not, the franchise would take an enormous public relations hit.
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
by ghtd36 on Jul 28, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if the rays are really thinking they could get more than that package
when prospects are being placed at a premium, then why would they even dangle carl crawford out there?
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well ... if they want to trade FOTF for FOTF ...
I’m just saying …
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be so horrible for the rangers.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would do Hamilton
if I thought we could resign Crawford
by blueballlefty on Jul 28, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, thats what I said
The problem with our offense is the stars not performing. Are you going to benh kinsler and hamilton?
Of course Crawford is an upgrade, but enough of one to pay full price for rather than using that value to get a SP or fill another hole?
And yes his obp is 371 this year… but 334 for his career.
Every team could use crawford, its just relative needs. I’d rather roll with our current platoon and use that value on someone else, is that really so crazy?
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do we have that TB wants??? hahahah
jesus.
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
these Halladay offers have started to get a lot better
doubt the rangers want to match (dont’ think they should).
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 3:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is off topic but
can somebody find me the article explaining why the #3 spot in the batting order isnt as important as the 2 and 4 spots
go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com
by studcrackers on Jul 28, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't have an article
But the short story is that he comes up with no on and 2 out more because it happens in the 1st inning so often, and that is the most low-leverage situation for a hitter.
by mikedallas45 on Jul 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garko
So the Rangers were seriously considering Garko.
Rangers officials have since confirmed for me that they were heavily involved in the talks for Garko. But early on in last night’s game, they were informed of the deal with the Giants….
….Garko, 28, would have fit all the Rangers criteria. He’s a right-handed batter, cheap in terms of salary and controllable for multiple years. He will be eligible for arbitration for the first time next year and should jump from $446,000 to probably close to $2 million.
Would he have made AJ expendable or would the Ranger shave sent down a pitcher to make room for him?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 3:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they probably would've kept Andruw for DH and Hank for a platoon
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link?
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford
man, i cant imagine what it would take to get him.
by kumizi on Jul 28, 2009 3:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Zach Duke...
Why is no one mentioning Zach Duke? His asking price cannot be all that high…
What would get it done for Duke? Hunter/Borbon? Kiker/Borbon/Morland?
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's not very good.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 28, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
.280 BABIP, 1.23 WHIP, 4.00 FIP (which would go down with our defense), pretty well split between GB/FB, given up 13 HRs…Not the greatest in the world, but not shabby at all.
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling that the cost would be surprisingly high
but I think that Richard Durrett did do a post bringing him up yesterday.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So are rotation this week could be Hunter, Mathis, Feldman, Holland, Nippert.
Not one of stating 5.
by diamond_dave on Jul 28, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
god i had momentarily forgotten about millwood's injury
How brutal.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or it could be
Hunter, Mathis, Feldman, Millwood, Padilla
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT Again - Scott Lucas finally figured out whats wrong with Engel Beltre
scottrlucas: Officially reported at last: High-A Engel Beltre out with hamate fracture. .227/.281/.317, 3 HR, 17 BB in 84 games. #texasrangers.
Sucks
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah shroomer had that yesterday from Cole in the minors thread
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Opps, didn't see it
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamate bone break
Does that put him out for the season?
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think so.
That bone is usually fractured in half, which virually kills any bloodflow to facilitate healing of said break. Or, he may get it removed entirely, as several athletes have done.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the bone Madrigal broke
when madrigal was a position player(OF, I think) and supposedly he could mash before, and couldn’t get it back afterward. Hence the switch to P.
Never argue with a fool. Onlookers might not be able to tell you apart.
by randyd on Jul 28, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
and hinders his power next season
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this could be good
Not having much power next year could get him to stay in the box more and take pitches instead of hacking at them
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, takes a long time to heal
And a long time for the pain to subside…I’ve fractured that bone twice, it sucks.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering the Twins were told that they were not on Halladay's list...
I guess that means that we are
by death of the cool on Jul 28, 2009 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we are still
in it because of our farm system. Who better to have the dodgers, red sox, and phillies think is around. They made the offer to the Phillies first, that is the package they would have taken, If Philly think the Rangers,with the number one system iis about to trade 3 of its top guys, then they will go running, (at least JP is hoping). I really don’t think Halladay wants to come here and this is just another JP bluff. Philly wa also willing to pay the remainder of his salary, remember this all started as a salary dump to rebuild for the future, They know the Rangers are gonna balk at taking on the salary and giving up holland/ feliz smoak/elvis borbon
by jrod4419 on Jul 28, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any word on placing Padzilla on the DL?
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jamey just flashed it
and said there might be a retroactive DL assignment.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guesses on who would replace him?
I know the Feliz weenies will be flopping, but who would they drop? I’d suggest exposing Jennings, although it might make more sense to do it after the trade deadline as a mediocre RH reliever won’t be as in demand by contenders.
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'll wait to watch Mathis' start...
If he’s really tired out (or, hey, very effective) then they’ll need a new long man I guess?
I don’t know if Feliz is quite the obvious choice yet.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has to be.
its only a few days at this point
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels
If they lose Howie Kendrick in a trade, even for Lee, that has to be a good thing. Right?
by 3Bagger on Jul 28, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stole this from MLB Daily Dish on SBNation
The Toronto Globe and Mail is reporting that Blue Jays GM JP Ricciardi is extending his self-imposed deadline of today for trading Roy Halladay because there are at least two teams who have caught his attention. While the Phillies may or may not have cooled in their quest for the ace, these other teams are talking seriously enough for Ricciardi to listen.
While other Blue Jays sources are confirming that the odds of a Halladay deal happening appear “remote”, they also say that Ricciardi will charge those two teams a “premium” as the added cost of having him remaining in the AL East.
The paper is reporting that Jays execs have their eyes on Red Sox prospects closer Daniel Bard and starter Clay Bucholz.
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
what to believe?
3:59pm: Dan Roche, an anchor for WBZTV, hears that the Red Sox did not offer Buchholz, Bowden and Westmoreland for Halladay.
1:57pm: Yahoo’s Gordon Edes reports that the Red Sox offered “at least” Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland to the Blue Jays for Halladay.
Also..
An AL official believes the Red Sox “will step up” for Adrian Gonzalez and tempt the Padres with their many prospects.
The Padres should wait until the winter meetings to trade him.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 28, 2009 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe they did not.
I believe they will go hard after Adrian.
by tyd3311 on Jul 28, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a feeling i get, but i think one of the 3 ML ready players Toronto is asking for is likely Andrus
they asked the angels for Aybar, I bet they asked the Rangers forsomething like Andrus + Holland+ Smoak.
Would you trade Andrus at this point?
I probably would have a hard time trading him at this point and honestly, Id likely deal Smoak b4 Andrus. What andrus has done to help turn this teams run prevention around cannot be understated… I dont think you can find someone who can replace that type of value nearly as well as you could find someone to replace Smoak at 1b
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hell no
and I’d counter with Holland + Davis + Beavan + Vallejo/Arias and walk away. Empty handed.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 28, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way the Rangers trade Andrus right now
Unless we get back Pujols, Lincecum or Greinke
And even then we have to think about it…..
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want people to not take you seriously?
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Just making a joke. But in all serious, right now Andrus is untradeable. Teams are probably asking for him, but there is no way we give him up
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you would have to think about that?
Andrus is great, but he will never approach that kind of greatness
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one is off-limits
but Elvis is the least trade-able player on the team.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As he should be...
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could JD really say no to...
Elvis and Padilla for Halladay?
no. So he’s not off-limits.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you have to think though
That much of the great improvement that has come in run prevention and defense has come from Andrus at SS. Would you be willing to give that away?
I much rather have Elvis out there for all 5 days then wait on Halladay every 5th day
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could find a defensive wiz
at SS a lot easier than a true ace.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's more to Elvis than his glove.
Such as baserunning instincts
by oc on Jul 28, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trust me, i know this...
but Smoak Some was discussing run prevention.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is...
You are trading 5 years of Andrus for 1.3 of Halladay and taking on a contract you can’t handle.
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Can't Handle the Contract!
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
I’m sure we would rather have a 20 year old Defensive wiz who still has much room for improvement and that we hold the rights to for a while then a 32 year old pitcher that we would only control for 1.5 years who will probably walk at the end of the deal
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are making halladay sound like carl pavano
halladay greatly increases your chances of winning every 5th day
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
If the Angels don’t cool off and you miss the playoffs this year is Halladay next year worth more than four more years of Andrus?
Halladay is a fantastic pitcher. He helps you win every fifth day. Andrus helps you six out of every seven.
by Hull Fan on Jul 28, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm trying not to
Halladay is a great pitcher and one of the top players of the game right now, but would I include Andrus in a deal for him? No
Anyone else I would think about
I just really do think Elvis has more value to this team that Halladay would. Would you really want to see Young go back to SS or play someone else there, like Arias? I know I wouldn’t
Halladay might help you win every 5th day, but Elvis is on the field almost every day and makes plays that win you games everyday
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would not include andrus either
and I think the jays know jd won’t either. Hence we have not heard anything about elvis being involved in a trade for halladay
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus increases your chances of winning every single day
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea but not on the same level that halladay increases your chance on a night he starts
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think over those 5 days Andrus increases your teams chances as much as Halladay increases it that one
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that may be true
I don’t understand where all of the andrus trade talk is coming from though. He has not been mentioned in any rumors of a rangers halladay deal
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Every fifth fucking day…and whoever we march out there probably wins about 50% (low end imo) of their games…Halladay…ill say 80% to be generous
Elvis helps the team every day in a big way…and he’ll be doing it for 4 more years than halladay
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again
Elvis has not been mentioned in any trade rumors. I don’t understand why y’all are so bent out of shape about this
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you are saying you would trade Elvis for Halladay
And giving us the reasoning that Halladay increases your chances to win every 5 days while ignoring the fact that Elvis increases your chance every single day and will for the next 5 years as opposed to 1 and a third with Halladay. Elvis will affect close to 850 more games while halladay would only affect around 45 or so.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please tell me where i said that we should trade andrus
I never said we should do it. I just said that halladay will give the rangers a greater chance to win every fifth day in the next year and half than elvis can everyday for the next year and a half
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I took this to mean
Andrus is great, but he will never approach that kind of greatness
And you can’t just look at the next year and a half since you have Elvis under team control for the next 5 years
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a reply to the guy that said he wouldn't trade andrus for greinke, pujols or lincecum
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK sorry I thought it was the Halladay question above that.
My bad
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its alright
i can see where it comes off as that
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I would trade Andrus for one of those guys
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Riccardi did that...
He would be fired by August 1…Elvis/Nippert/Borbon with them eating the contract, that would be more interesting to ponder
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, id probably kill JD if we dealt Andrus if im honest with myself
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Elvis on Acid….
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the package is Andrus/Holland/Smoak
then I will buy Josey a car bomb to go deal with JD.
Andrus has to be untouchable, but if he were to be included in a deal, the Jays better forget about any of the big 4.
by behindthebag on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to rec this
but the sad thing is, this would be the one deal made by JD that Josey actually might like…
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus untouchable for me.
Not sure I would trade Andrus SU for 1 1/3 year of Halladay
by diamond_dave on Jul 28, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would trade anyone
but Smoak.
Andrus a close second.
Pitching prospects fail a lot. Holland reminds me of Andrew Miller.
by kumizi on Jul 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
You would trade any pitcher, and you’re real smart, so….
by brettgardner on Jul 28, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bleh imo
as a whole, having a strong system is important but individual prospects are overrated other than a few guys.
feldman is just as likely to have a successful career as holland imo
by kumizi on Jul 28, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i actually kind of agree with the logic
and you are right, from a pure average value perspective, top hitting prospects are worth more b/c the risk is less. But at the same time, we need all the young pitchers with Perez/Feliz/HOlland cieling because of what you just said. They are more likely to fail, and we have to have good pitching to win consistently, more so than good hitting.
Now, we are talking about Halliday, so if we do just deal one of the top cieling pitchers, it would make sense i guess. But you still are putting yourself in a precarious spot a couple years from now.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hot sports opinion, Kumizi...
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trades
Willingham’s price is apparently too high….They are probably asking for one of the big 4, no way
Halladay…They really want 3 of the 4? We are not the Vikings here and they are not the Cowboys. NO!
Lee…They will probably ask for 2 of the 4 or at least one and i dont want to pay that for Cliff Lee. Too much of an unknown to me.
Duke…No, no, no
V-mart….The Indians probably want too much
I was neither really in the trade for halladay group and now im most definitely in the trade for no one group. The Rangers are so close to having a cost effective, young, talented team. How many times does that happen to a team in a decade? In 3 decades? This market doesnt seem to be good for “buyers”. Sit on the sidelines this yr unless some team just wants to unload someone. Next year is the time, this yr is a bonus.
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 28, 2009 4:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why so adamant against Duke?
I’m not campaigning for this guy, im just wondering why no one is that interested in a young lefthander that is controllable and cheap (both in the way of prospects and salary)
"Support the Dutch Oven"
by RangerFloppy on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers wind up making no trades this deadline ...
I’ll be fine with it. I am glad that it appears they have worked hard and done their homework to see if a good deal could be made.
by northtexan95 on Jul 28, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That being said
I’d be really surprised if they didn’t add a bat.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as they dont overpay, that is fine
As stated above though…Willingham may cost one of the big 4…(in the nats mind)
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Deadline is fun!
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WAAAAY OT
Anyone familiar with the Twins’ system? I’m curious about 3B Danny Valencia. Baseball America called him untouchable, but I’ve never heard a lot about him. 3B has been a black hole for them for quite some time. Just curious when he’ll be up and what to expect?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby
by Haeger Champ on Jul 28, 2009 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No idea but his name reminds me of Dayan Viciedo, the cuban 3d the whitsox got.
So i checked up on him – .684 ops. Woops.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillies/Clle Deal coming?
4:50pm: ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports that the Phillies and Indians are doing extensive background work on minor leaguers to prepare for a possible Lee trade. The Indians want top pitching that could contribute in the majors soon. Kyle Drabek would appeal to the Indians, but the Phillies have been reluctant to trade Drabek, even for Halladay.
However, the Phillies may have enough high-upside pitching to meet the Indians’ demands without including Drabek.
The Phillies just need another good pitcher, I think they are good enough that they dont have to have Halliday. I think if the Phillies get Lee, their one -two punch of Lee and Hamels would be good enough. If i were the Phillies and its not gonna cost me Drabek to get Lee, I think id almost have to do the deal.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 5:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If the rangers plan on making a halladay trade
they need to do it before lee is dealt. If they don’t, everyone that was in on lee will focus their attention on halladay and will cause the rangers price to go up even more
by trgordon723 on Jul 28, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the same time
Philly is probably the best possible fit for the Jays.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, the redsox maybe
but i’d rather get one of those clubs out of it completely so I’m not in an ostensible bidding war
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the Red Sox and Phillies have to offer is comparable, and Philly is a much more preferable destination for Toronto.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the red sox could offer more than philly
they are choosing not to but still.
anyway, JP could use the redsox to drive up the price.
holland/davis/borbon/Arias/lowe level pitcher for Halladay/Frasor
who says no? I assume you hope that we do.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Philly could match or beat any half-way reasonable package Boston could throw together.
Brown, Taylor, Drabek and Knapp are all premium prospects.
They also have anumber of closer guys to fill out any package with guys like Happ, Carrasco, Bastardo and Donald.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think intelligent people hope we do
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
god you are a retard
you won’t give up 1 of the top 4, a 1B who is probably blocked by second coming of mickey, and a CF for Halladay?
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I misread the deal a little…but id still say no
this team isnt ready to sell out for a Roy Halladay
stay the course or go get a young pitcher who you will control for longer
again, fuck rental players and the overpaying bullshit associated with them
by Horns130 on Jul 28, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lee in the NL
He could be real dominate over there…….
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, i really think he could... He's still underrated imo
and he wont have to pitch in Arlington in the NL too. I think it would be a great move if the Phillies got Lee sans Drabek.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
Now:
Rob Bradford at WEEI is reporting that the Red Sox are close to a deal that would net Cliff Lee from the Indians for Michael Bowden, Josh Reddick and another prospect. Stay tuned.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if that is the case
then it is us and the phillies (and god knows who else for halladay).
I’m thinking we might actually bow out of the halladay bidding soon
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That rumor sounds bogus to me unless that prospect is someone nuts.
Like… I dunno know who.
Casey Kelly or maybe they’re considering Buccholz and Bard prospects.
Cause Bowden + Reddick + pretty much anyone in their system is a pretty damn fine deal for the Sox, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically...
Could the Rangers match that without one of the Big Four?
by N41D on Jul 28, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a great deal
Both Bowden and Reddick were B+ and B prospects respectively in their system. Plus if you add in another prospect (my guess would be a pitcher, like Stolmy Pimentel or Bryan Price), that makes it a tough deal to top
Really, if the Phillies want him, they got to give up Drabek. I think now I’m more interested if the Phillies will give him up rather than who we are interested in trading for…
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's a pretty terrible deal.
And now it’s being reported that its bogus.
Yep.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone got different opinions on prospects
I like Bowden (though not as much as Bard) and Reddick is really coming around this season. Is it a top deal? No, but its closer than what other teams could offer (except the Phils)
Cleveland and the Jays are both asking for the moon for their guys, but they got to realize that they ain’t going to get their kings ransom. So that deal could be the best they could have gotten (if it wasn’t bogus)
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, i agree
I was very suprised when i read that bosox-Cle rumor… it seems like they were asking for alot more.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reddick's value is apparently up
but that does seem a little light, given what Cleveland has supposedly been asking for Lee all season.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 28, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id rather get Lee for that level of value than halladay for what hes being discussed for.
Although maybe I’m too hung up on bowdens k/bb.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jul 28, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really think all these "close to a deal" reports
Are just for a way for the Jays and the Indians to say to the Phillies that if you want our guy (Halladay or Lee), you got to give up Drabek
Right when these deals are announced I’ll believe it
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I think they're simply a case of guys wanting very badly to improve their traffic/ratings and reporting breathlessly on rumors.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ROFL
5:40pm: Well isn’t this ridiculous. Rob Bradford at WEEI tweets: “I have not reported anything. Somebody is hacking into my account.”
So much for that.
by txhc on Jul 28, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let there be light!!
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by Chase Irwin on Jul 28, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So basically....
That’s a good way to say “I eff’d up and reported something wrong….so I’ll say someone else posted it without me knowing!!!”
Bill Simmons: "I will tell you right now, if the Boston Red Sox traded Clay Buchholz for Justin Smoak, I will run around my neighborhood naked...celebrating for an hour. I love Justin Smoak"
by Smoak Some on Jul 28, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is hilarious
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
by hinduplaya on Jul 28, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it really is
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read
The comments on that one, a couple of different guys are saying that a Cleveland area radio station has reported that the deal is already done. Lee and V-Mart to Philly and Drabek isn’t involved. No links, no sources, nothing. Take it for what it’s worth.
by txhc on Jul 28, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
radio stations
very rarely do they know shit
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
by ab03 on Jul 28, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by
were convinced they were the front-runners to get 

