Kevin Millwood, Rob Neyer, Evan Grant, luck, pitching, and defense
This is a blog post about a post by Evan Grant responding to a blog post by Rob Neyer commenting on a blog post by R.J. Anderson.
So this may be a bit meta.
In a nutshell, Grant takes issue with Neyer's endorsement of Anderson's point, which is that Kevin Millwood hasn't really been any better this year than in the past few years.
Evan makes clear his thoughts on Millwood right off the bat:
By almost any evaluation, Millwood has been one of the top five or six pitchers in the AL this season.
I guess the problem is how one defines "top pitcher." In terms of runs allowed or ERA, absolutely, he's been one of the top pitchers in the league.
But when we talk about runs allowed or ERA, we mustn't forget the Tenth Noble Truth of Bill James:
10. A great deal of what is perceived as being pitching is in fact defense.
Kevin Millwood's ERA is down significantly. The Rangers' team ERA is down significantly. The Rangers are on pace to allow 753 runs this season, after allowing 967 runs last season. And there's been a lot of talk about improved conditioning, working deeper into games, and all the stuff that Nolan Ryan has implemented.
There's also been a lot of talk about the defense, as well, but still...a 200+ run improvement in runs allowed can't all be defense, right?
Wrong. Or mostly wrong, anyway, in my opinion...the improved defense, along with luck, random variation, whatever you want to call it, is the biggest reason why the team as a whole is allowing fewer runs this year.
Turning back to Millwood...where Evan appears to take greatest issue is with Anderson's emphasis on Millwood's high LOB%:
The Anderson column draws a comparison to Millwood’s subpar 2007 season, indicating that just about every number, except for the percentage of runners left on base, is almost identical. Thus, the deduction. Millwood=Lucky. There is a passing remark about the Rangers defense and the admission that adding Millwood to the All-Star team would be fair, "as long as shortstop Elvis Andrus, right fielder Nelson Cruz, and the rest of the Rangers defense gets to play tag along to St. Louis." You had me at Elvis, R.J., but Cruz? Anybody who has watched a smidgeon of Rangers baseball this season knows Cruz has not been a defensive asset in right field. But, hey, we’re getting away from the point that the numbers are based on luck, not performance. And that it would be impossible to sustain his strand rate of nearly 86 percent.
It is very probably true that Millwood’s ability to strand runners will dip in the summer heat. After all, 86 percent is an astronomical number. But why is this viewed as a Millwood shortcoming?
Suggesting that it is viewed as a shortcoming is, I think, missing the point that Anderson and Neyer are making. Have an extremely high strand rate isn't a shortcoming...it is simply non-sustainable.
No pitcher is going to be able to strand baserunners at such a high rate over a significant period of time. And drilling down in the numbers a little further illustrates why that isn't possible.
Kevin Millwood has allowed, overall, a .242/.311/.395 line, with a .261 BABIP.
With RISP, Millwood has allowed a .189/.266/.315 line and a .204 BABIP.
With RISP and 2 outs, Millwood has allowed an .096/.175/.212 line and a .095 BABIP.
Look at that again -- hitters are hitting .096 against Millwood with runners in scoring position and 2 outs this season. They are 5 for 52, with 2 singles, a double, a triple, and a home run.
That's why he has such a high strand rate, and that is a major reason why Millwood is among the tops in the league in ERA.
Now, that's not a bad thing. But it is something that, by all accounts, is completely outside of Millwood's control, and thus is not sustainable.
Grant goes on to talk about the improvement in Millwood's physical condition this year:
And the Neyer-Anderson argument doesn’t try to take into account the reports of Millwood’s improved physical conditioning, which might lead to being able to sustain quality of pitches late into game. Is that quantifiable? Not really. But from an anecdotal perspective, it sure seems that when he needs a ground ball, hebetter-toned Millwood, more able to make quality pitches later into games.
Here's the problem with that, though...to the extent Millwood's performance, what he is directly responsible for, is quantifiable, he's worse this year than last year. His K rate has dropped to 5.6 per 9 from 6.7 per 9. Despite striking out fewer batters, he's walking more guys, 2.9 in 2009 vs. 2.6 last season. And his homer rate has risen slightly, to 1.1 per 9 from 1.0 per 9.
Millwood has a FIP of 4.48 this year, compared to 4.02 in 2008 and 4.55 in 2007. And his ratio of ground balls to fly balls is actually lower this year than in the previous two years, currently sitting at 1.11, compared to 1.20 last year and 1.44 in 2007. He's allowing fly balls on a higher percentage of balls hit in 2009 than at any other point of his career.
Millwood's line drive rate is significantly lower this year than last year, and so it is fair to say he's allowing fewer hard hit balls than in years past...but I think there's a legitimate question as to how much of that is really Millwood's doing, and how much is just random variation.
At the end of the day, for the most part, Millwood's great ERA isn't, I think, due to getting more ground balls, or being in better condition. It is due primarily to two things -- great defense behind him and great fortune with runners on base.
Evan takes issue with Neyer and Anderson not talking enough about the team's defense in regards to Millwood, but in fairness to both guys, they've both talked at length this season about the improved Ranger defense and how it has impacted the team's run prevention. The point of Anderson's article is in the very title of the Fangraphs piece that started this chain reaction -- it was to highlight how a ridiculous LOB% can artificially enhance a pitcher's ERA, and make it appear he's pitching a lot better than he actually is.
Evan also takes issue with the luck argument, though:
But attributing Millwood’s success to luck is assinine, first, and plainly against the crede of the stats analysts, second. Stats analysts don’t believe in luck. They believe in trends.
From where I sit, which has been at the park or in front of the TV for all of Millwood’s starts this season, as well as in 2007, the stats do help explain something about performance. They help explain just how helpful an above-average infield defense can be to a pitch-to-contact pitcher. The Rangers gambled that improving the defense would have a significant impact on the effectiveness of the starting rotation. What could have been an analysis of just how helpful solid fielding can be to a pitcher instead turned into an assault on the pitcher based on, of all things, "luck." As more and more teams try to quantify how much impact fielding can have on their success, it would seem the piece of information Anderson dug up would be helpful in drawing some kind of correlation between improved defense and improved pitching performance.
As I mentioned above, Anderson and Neyer have both been in the forefront in talking about the Ranger team defense having a huge impact on the team's success this year, much like the Rays last season.
And I think a lot of the problem is with the very word "luck," which seems loaded and brings to mind 4 leaf clovers and the like. Call it random variation or fluctuation or something like that, instead.
But the reality is, Kevin Millwood stranding almost 90% of the runners he's allowed is attributable almost entirely to luck. Millwood isn't morphing into a better pitcher when runners are in scoring position. The defense isn't suddenly making plays with runners in scoring position that they wouldn't make with the bases empty. A 5 for 52 line with RISP is random variation, analogous to a stretch of 10 heads in a row when you flip a coin a million times. It is unusual and unexpected, but inevitable over a long enough period of time.
Statheads do believe in luck. Luck is why the better team doesn't always win in a 7 game series. Luck is why a Damian Moss or a Joe Saunders will put up a fluke season. And luck is why Kevin Millwood is leaving almost 90% of the runners he allows on base.
Several people in the comments of Evan's story have some variation of "how many games has Neyer/Anderson/whomever seen Millwood pitch?". And that is largely, I think, irrelevant. The numbers are what they are, and I don't see how watching the game or not watching the game changes the fact that stranding runners is outside of Millwood's control.
(And similarly, the suggestion in the comments that if Anderson watched the Rangers play he'd know Nelson Cruz isn't a good defender is misguided...the numbers so far this season indicate that Cruz has been one of the best defensive right fielders in the game. That's the same attitude that had people insisting, in the face of all objective evidence, that Derek Jeter and Michael Young weren't terrible defensive shortstops for so long.)
The point of this isn't to condemn Millwood. He's been a workhorse this year. But he has not been a TORP...he's been a LAIE who has benefitted from great defense and great luck. Neyer and Anderson have it right...he's not been a great pitcher this season.
3 recs |
71 comments
|
Comments
When Millwood faces a situation with RISP ...
he just imagines he’s pitching to Michael Young, relaxes and lets it fly.
by shroomer on Jul 3, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is your problem
He should be imaging that he is pitching to Chris Davis, that way his FIP wouldn’t be so awful
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i need to get a blog
so i can comment on a blog’s commenting on a blog arguing with a blog standing up for the first blog, agreeing on the second and arguing with the third.
cross promotion baby!!
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
by gossamer on Jul 3, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Luck isn't why an inferior team sometimes wins a 7 game series.
Any true stathead will tell you that SSS is how an inferior team defeats a superior one in short series. And even a 7-game series is a short series.
by bhudson on Jul 3, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Small sample size is all about variability, or what's being billed as "luck," here.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does the LA in LAIE mean
League-average?
Because there’s something I’d like to say about league-average pitching…
by bhudson on Jul 3, 2009 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What would that be, pray tell?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jul 3, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was going to say
that with an above average defense, league average pitching will be misconstrued as awesomeness.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 3, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good piece Adam.
I tend toward your argument much more than Evan’s. Does anyone know if there are comparisons out there of FIP when no one is on vs. RISP vs. RISP w/2 outs? I’m curious if maybe his numbers are actually better in those scenarios and that partly accounts for the extremely high stranded runners rate. I’m well aware of the “clutch” vs. “not clutch” arguments, but just curious if in some cases guys concentrate better or whatever and perform better in some of those situations. Obviously a guy like Padilla – it doesn’t really matter what his overall numbers look like. We’ve seen him when his head isn’t right vs. when it is and that is why, in my opinion, the guy is so maddeningly inconsistent. ERA, FIP, whatever if he loses focus you can throw all those numbers out. Can the same be said of Millwood in reverse where maybe he buckles down more in high leverage situations?
by thirdold on Jul 3, 2009 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You can find FanGraphs' version of Millwood's "clutch" stats
in this table, and his career splits with RISP, two-outs are available here, along with other stats.
I’m skeptical that Millwood has suddenly discovered a special ability to bear down and record outs in high-leverage situations or when runners are in scoring position or whatnot.
Also, using the “Return” key will improve your posts’ readability…
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t necessarily think Millwood has any special ability in this regard. Just hadn’t seen anything about it either way and thought that might be a contributing factor. Was just curious if that might be an explanation…
“Return” key??
by thirdold on Jul 3, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paragraphs are nice.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to disagree, Adam
But both columns give no credence to an improved Millwood. I fully credit the defense with having a significant role in the improvement of the pitching staff, but that’s where the statistical analysis by both Neyer and Anderson is most telling. You can indeed help a pitching staff significantly by improving the fielding.
My take: To insinuate that MIllwood has been “incredibly lucky” gives no credit to a pitcher who has made himself better. How much has the conditioning improved him? Hard to say, but my eyes tell me it has. The defense has, too. Mike Maddux, as well. Is he likely to sustain a rate of stranding 86 percent of the runners? No. But I don’t exactly think this guy is going to blow in the second half.
by Evan Grant on Jul 3, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No one is arguing that he is going to blow in the second half
The most likely scenario is that he will simply revert back to what he is and what his numbers indicate – an average pitcher who gives you a lot of innings and pitches in front of a good defense. This is a disagreement over whether he is a true top of the rotation pitcher like his ERA suggests, and he is not. The reason that he has a ERA of a top of the rotation pitcher, even though he is closer to a league average pitcher is partly the strong defense, and partly that he has been lucky.
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it is doubtful
that he reverts back to the pitcher he was last year or the year before. The defense behind him won’t change so his BABIP and his LOB % will most likely be lower than his previous years with the Rangers.
One stat that I like to look at with pitchers are thier LD%. I think a low LD% indicates the pitcher is making quality pitches that the batter is not getting good wood on. This can be attrubuted to better preparation, conditioning and skill.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 3, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millwood's LD% so far this season is less than two percent lower than in 2007,
and three percent lower than his career mark. It’s better, then, but not remarkably better. (He’s also giving up slightly more home runs per nine innings, though, and his HR/FB is a bit higher than his career average.)
And I don’t think anyone’s arguing that Millwood’s LOB% (and BAbip) won’t be lower due to the defense behind him ~ but that doesn’t make him a “better” pitcher, right?
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it depends on what you mean
I think he has been pretty much the same pitcher from 2007 to now, the difference is the defense behind him and some random variations. Last year he looked a lot worse than he really is, and this year it’s the opposite.
The line drive thing is harder… some will argue that the pitcher certainly has control over the line drive rates hit off him, others will argue that while that ability is there, the year-to-year fluctuation is so great that it’s hard to tell exactly how much control he has. For any given pitcher, there appears to be a correlation between line drive and performance – his best years tend to be the ones where he gives up the least LD%. That said, Millwood is still surrendering like 21% line drives this year – I think that’s worse than the average pitcher.
Shifting gears a bit, the more troubling trend that I find with Millwood is the continuous loss of velocity on the fastball since he signed here. In 2005 – his career year with the Indians – his fastball averaged 92.4 mph, it has decreased by about 0.6 mph every year since then. Now he is at 90 mph, and it worries me a bit about next year.
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially after reading Spurdy Nasty's work on FB velo.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jul 3, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One problem is that we don't know what's going into the variation, the error term, luck,
or whatever you want to call it. It’s possible that Millwood’s conditioning, contract option, and coaching have helped him in some intangible way that’s not reflected in his overall peripherals. Even if that’s the case, though, it’s impossible to say how much effect any of that has had.
Historically, though consistently recording an LOB% of 75-80, season after season, is extraordinary ~ the stuff of aces. Notably, Millwood’s full-season best in LOB% (79.1) was in his last year with the Indians, when he led the league in ERA, and he hasn’t been close since.
That doesn’t mean that Millwood will collapse this season to 71.5% LOB (his career average), or that he’ll blow in the second half. Unless the defense collapses, he’ll at least still have that going for him.
What it does mean, however, is that if you’re looking to project Millwood’s second-half (or 2010) performance ~ or to evaluate him against the aces of the league ~ you should consider not only the facts that he’s playing in front of a defense that’s been terrific so far this season, and that it’s possible that he’s got some newfound intangibles going for him, but also that ~ despite all of those factors ~ his LOB% is very likely to regress somewhat.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a vacuum, I would take Millwood regressing to 75-79%
I think that would put him with a mid 3’s ERA at the finish, and I would take that any day.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jul 3, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
As long as you realize that to wind up with a 3.50 ERA over 238 IP this season, Millwood’s ERA over his next 119 IP would be 4.16 ~ which, I think, would frustrate some folks’ expectations.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I stand corrected...
Let’s hope he does better than that.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on Jul 3, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's likely that Millwood will remain "lucky" even if he regresses
as long as the defense stays solid. But he isn’t likely to be as lucky as he has been. Evan are you suggesting that Millwood suddenly becomes Walter Johnson with RISP and 2 outs? It is not an insult to Millwood, or the improved conditioning, to say he’s been lucky. Actually, it’s a credit to him to show how “unlucky” he has been the last couple of years.
A defense that allows a pitcher the luxury of only needing 3 outs an inning and runs saved with greater range means pitchers throwing more innings, no matter what condition they are in. No one should confuse Millwood with an ace, as much as we all value his workhorse, get it done attitude. He is very valuable to this team as is.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 3, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fielding
I agree the fielding is huge…but I don’t think Neyer and Anderson are ignoring that factor. They’ve both written about the big difference the fielding has had on the Rangers pitching.
But the fielding alone doesn’t explain the almost 90% strand rate…I think this is an instance where they are both simply illustrating how dramatic an impact something like strand rate can have on a pitcher’s ERA, which is something that is almost completely outside a pitcher’s control.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting people out...
…is outside the pitcher’s control?
by Black Francis on Jul 3, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to expand...
…I do think some of it is random variation or luck or whatever you want to call it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s totally or completely outside of the pitcher’s control.
by Black Francis on Jul 3, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I've read it in the past is...
the type of contact (ground ball vs. fly ball vs. line drive) is under the pitcher’s control to an extent. But there really isn’t any way that a pitcher can make a batter start his swing at a particular moment in time.
by jwiscarson on Jul 4, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's not?
Deception? Change of speed?
by Black Francis on Jul 4, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean is
You’re talking about a handful of milliseconds difference between rolling over on a changeup and turning it into a groundout as compared to a squibber that finds a gap for a base hit.
by jwiscarson on Jul 7, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crediting a pitcher for making himself better...
@ Evan Grant
You stated that to insinuate that MIllwood has been "incredibly lucky" gives no credit to a pitcher who has made himself better. I would have to disagree with that: a pitcher makes himself better by increasing his strikeout ratio, reducing his walk ratio, and by increasing his ground ball percentage. Millwood simply has not done that this year.
by Rob B. on Jul 6, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This again?
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I had to scroll down about 5 times on my laptop
just to reach the bottom of this tome…
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 3, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Just when I was wondering why I bother to sift through all the troll crap on this site, you bust out something like this and real me back in.
"You'll meet them again on their long journey to the middle." -Lester Bangs
by BAC on Jul 3, 2009 4:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I love that Adam's case is over...
meaning we get more than the morning wrap up post each day.
Ron Washington...giving hope everywhere to the kids who eat lead paint chips of being a big league manager when they grow up since 2007.
by rangers85 on Jul 3, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent piece
But I would give some amount of credence to Millwood’s ability to go deeper into his starts, and would attribute some of the random variation (“luck”) to selectively dealing with different opposing hitters in different ways in situational play. Another niggling point, regarding Cruz’ defense in RF. When opposing coaches stop runners from advancing of hits or flies to RF, that pretty well demonstrates at least the defensive capability to throw people out, or the belief that he can, and counts into the overall run prevention schema.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jul 3, 2009 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To repeat myself
I think a lot of the going deeper into starts, the defense is probably largely responsible for that, too. Fewer outs needed, fewer batters faced per inning, my gut tells me that the defense is worth 2 or 3 outs per game to the starter compared with last year.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 3, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Ed on this one.
This year’s Millwood is a better pitcher than the past few years. Separating better defense, luck, better conditioning, etc. out seems a fool’s errand. Is Millwood’d Babip lower than the rest of the staff? I guess I could look it up myself, but that would take some time that I don’t have as the kid’s are yelling for dinner(and I’m lazy).
Sorta OT: To the existence of “clutch” players, I find amazing that statheads freak out on this concept. What about basketball players on the free throw line? I’ve seen 90% shooters from the line miss 2 free throws due to the pressure of a game. Phil Mickelson misses a 2 ft putt to lose another major. Pressure and how a player handles it are absolutely real and relevant. Please explain how clutch doesn’t exist. I’m not trying to flame, I’m trying to understand.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on Jul 3, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The belief is that
a player is trying his absolute hardest at all times and that there are no significant differences based on situation.
Millwood is trying to get you out, not just because the bases are drunk.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that it is much, much more likely...
…that “clutch” exists in the situations you described than in baseball.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well you see I would agree if I hadn't played the game myself through a couple of years of college
Too many times I’ve seen a player choke or excel in a crucial situation on the ball field whether it’s Buckner/Mookie or Joe Carter/Mitch Williams.
Why do playoffs games take forever? Primarily because the pitcher and/or batter are nervous and trying to calm themselves. Think about watching the Rangers playing in the World Series. You think you will be nervous, I know I will. You can damn sure bet the players will be too. I get using the numbers to expose the “clutchiness” or “grittiness” of players – see fucking Dykstra or Puckstein for that. I also see the fact that 162 games are played a year – that’s a lot of games which would mitigate a great deal of clutch or grit. However, it doesn’t change the fact when the chips are down and everyone is watching, some players perform well and others make mistakes. Use whatever word you want for that, but when I look it up on the internet it says clutch.
I guess what bothers me about not recognizing a player’s ability to rise to situations means that every game should go as it would on paper, and they just don’t. Other factors are involved yes, but on the whole it’s about doing the job under intense pressure.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
by Parman on Jul 3, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I see it
the difference between basketball and baseball is the amount of skill refinement it takes to get to the top level of the playing field. The NBA has the D-league. MLB has AAA, AA, Single-A, Long-A, Short-A, and Rookie levels. If you fold under pressure, you’re likely going to be unable to deal with the mental rigors of day-to-day baseball, especially considering the length and routine of the game.
I do think that “clutch” exists to an extent, but the degree to which this is a repeatable skill (and furthermore, one that isn’t (or can’t be) integrated into a player’s normal mental preparations) is what’s really up for debate. Adding in the small sample sizes and inconsistently applied clutch situation definitions and you really have a conundrum.
Personally, that’s why I dislike applying the clutch label to anyone. A clutch performance? Sure. But the situations come up so rarely in the grand scheme of things that it’s just hard to measure with any real certainty. We sometimes refer to one entire season’s worth of plate appearances as being a less-than-accurate measure of a player’s true ability, so considering that a veteran might have one full season’s worth of clutch plate appearances spread out over an entire career…makes quite a few of us squeamish.
by jwiscarson on Jul 4, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So there's no such thing as
“reaching back for a little extra” in a tight situation?
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 3, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think that's an interesting point
a starter, especially one who has been anointed the ace under the edict that entire staff must go that extra inning, has to have a different approach than a reliever who is only going to see 3-5 batters. i’m not saying that milwood lolly-gags through the start until he faces a dangerous situation and then raises his game to squash it. but it seems plausible that a starter paces himself carefully, turning things up just a tad in higher leverage situations. and maybe, part of kevin’s offs-season conditioning is the ability to continue to reach that higher level later in ball games.
it wouldnt completely account for his pristine strand rate, but it might be a partial factor.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 4, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good work
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, though. When I see Millwood pitch, I see a confident guy who is making good pitches, and making good pitches is the absolute most important thing in preventing runs. If the hitter isn’t seeing a lot of fat pitches, the defense isn’t going to help him as much. Those balls are going to be smoked.
But when the pitcher throws off the hitter even by just a little, the balls may still be hit but the defense can do more with them. Past Ranger teams wouldn’t have, or at least wouldn’t have to the degree that this one does.
Millwood’s not sending them down the pipe like he was last year. You have to give him credit for that no matter what you think about it. He’s staying on the corners better. I not saying he’s Cy Young material because he isn’t dominant in terms of strikeouts and getting the hitters to pound the ball into the ground one after another. He’s just effective. The defense helps him out for sure, but he’s also helping the defense by not giving up screaming liners to all fields.
by Black Francis on Jul 3, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am waiting for the day Hit f/x comes out in full regalia
It would be glorious to know exactly how hard balls were hit off the pitcher
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
I think it will be very, very telling. Will be able to evaluate players as hitters and defenders much better, and of course pitchers.
by Black Francis on Jul 3, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where I get confused ..
Are there any BABIP studies that iterate trends between staffs as a whole?
My guess would be, on average, there are a few teams out of 30 each year that have high BABIP spreads between their pitchers. This would seem to indicate that there is SOME extent to which a pitcher can control his BABIP. More often than not, however, I could see there being no significant difference between BABIP’s, thinking that the defense “plays the same” regardless of the pitcher, despite the fact that balls may come off of bats differently depending on pitch quality.
I’m starting to wonder if a pitcher CAN control his BABIP.
For instance, if Michael Young has a high BABIP because he “smacks the cover” and it is supported by a high LD%, then why cannot Millwood have a low BABIP because he is painting corners and “getting weak contact”, as supported by the lowered LD%?
I’m anticipating the response to be something to the effect of “so you’re saying Millwood is THE exception?!” No, I am not. But I do not see how a player has zero control over BABIP.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 5:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If he's painting the corners...
…he’s also probably getting a lot of Ks.
That’s not happening, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily?
If you throw a 90 MPH FB with little movement on the outside corner, for a strike, I don’t see that getting many batters out in the AL.
It may however, induce poor contact.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops*
I don’t see that getting striking many batters out in the AL.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do have some control
From the batted balls data, we learn that a line drive is roughly an out 30% the time, groundball out 81% of the time, outfield fly balls in play out ~83% of the time, and popups out 98% of the time. Better defense will bring down those numbers, but ceteris paribus, if Pitcher A gives up 100 % LD, one can expect his BABIP to be high, and similarly, if Pitcher B gives up only popups, his BABIP should be abysmally low. As illustration, fly ball pitchers generally tend to have lower BABIP than groundball pitchers, since a fly ball is turned into an out more often than a groundball on average.
Of course, the immediate question after this is whether a pitcher has control over how the balls are hit, and we know the answer is yes – there are groundball pitchers, and there are fly ball pitchers, but again, the hard thing is the line drive. Some will say it’s definitely a skill, but many other argue that the fluctuation in it year-to-year is so large that’s it’s not predictive. I think the pitcher has some control over the “mean” of the LD%, but not the fluctuations. Since the fluctuations are large, one can have some really bad years.
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An added point
The BABIP difference between fly ball pitchers and groundball pitchers is small, since fly balls are only turned into outs at a little higher rate than ground balls – it can’t be used to explain away .240 BABIPs, but maybe like the difference between .275 and .285
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
If the line drive rate isn’t predictive, it can at least be descriptive, correct?
IMHO, it is a skill. I would attribute the fluctuation year-to-year to the many other variables that change from year-to-year. I totally agree that a pitcher has control over the mean, but not the variability. Perhaps that is the point I was trying to make in the first place.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the year-to-year variation around the pitcher's mean career LD% is large,
what would it mean to say that he has some control over that mean?
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not telegraph, but ..
more or less that the pitcher has significant influence in batted balls to the extent that he allows the hitter to get good wood on it. Some pitchers may have late life, deception, etc. etc.
I guess that you would only be able to affect the LD% within a season based on health, quality of stuff, situational use by manager (overworked?), all of which changes over a career, naturally.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the idea is that a given pitcher has some "true" underlying ability to prevent line drives,
derivable from his inherent set of pitching capabilities ~ but external factors cause variation around that expected value to such an extent that it is very difficult to make an accurate prediction from year to year?
I’d be skeptical about this argument, but I’m not sure I’m receiving your meaning clearly.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that is what I believe.
I know it wasn’t worded economically, but that is essentially it.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, line drive can oscillate, but it oscillates about some mean
let’s pretend pitcher’s LD% varies +/- 3% from year to year, then one pitcher can be in the 20-26% range while another maybe in the 17-23% range, the mean of the 20-26% guy is obviously different from the 17-23% while. I think the pitcher has some control over where that mean is – at least that’s what I am trying to say
by Telegraph on Jul 3, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In what you're proposing, isn't the pitcher also in control of the variation
to at least some extent? In other words,is it simply luck that the variation is limited to 3 percent on either side of the “mean” (which is really a career mark)? It seems more as if this range, in your view, represents the pitcher’s ability to control the proportion of line drives he gives up.
If the variation were truly large and outside of the pticher’s control, wouldn’t the central tendency be more opaque? It seems as if it’d be just as likely for a guy to post 30 percent every year (even if his “true” LD% was 23) as 16 percent, and there’s no reason one year would “cancel out” another, so the means wouldn’t obviously be different…
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
by Snark on Jul 3, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would view this as simply luck.
I like to think of baseball as one large statistics set.
I think Telegraph’s saying that the average LD% is under a pitcher’s control (perhaps a factor of overall pitch movement and velocity), but the season-to-season variation is more luck-based.
Think of big seasons put up by certain hitters. My favorite example from recent years is Milton Bradley. Last year, he put up a .388 BABIP. Now, he’s had big BABIP seasons in the past (a .371 mark in 2003 with Cleveland, for instance), but his career BABIP is a whopping 67 points lower. Did the ballpark inflate his offensive stats a bit? Maybe, but that doesn’t really explain the whole picture — he was really just lucky.
by jwiscarson on Jul 4, 2009 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
But I do not see how a player has zero control over BABIP.
I think the consensus is that a pitcher has very little control over BABIP, and that there are basically no non-knuckleballers who consistently have been able to maintain a well below average BABIP.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly a pitcher's approach should change
when he begins to understand that the defense behind him is capable/outstanding.
It would seem that the pitch-to-contact philosophy would be pretty difficult for a guy to swallow when the defense is as bad as it was last year.
Approach should have a significant impact on some of these alleged new-fangled stats that are much more concentrated on specific aspects of performance.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 3, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I’m waiting for a stat that builds in a component for “selectively dealing with different opposing hitters in different ways in situational play,” as Ed says.
I’ll be waiting for a while.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by Chase Irwin on Jul 3, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?!
But attributing Millwood’s success to luck is assinine, first, and plainly against the crede of the stats analysts, second. Stats analysts don’t believe in luck. They believe in trends.
Adam already said it, but still: WRONG WRONG WRONG.
by philkid3 on Jul 4, 2009 2:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Luck
Luck is why the better team doesn’t always win in a 7 game series.
I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree with what you implied by the way you said it. Yes, statistics dictate that every once in a while the better team will lose 4 of 7. That’s simple random variation. However, to say that luck is why that occurs is a fallacy. More often that not, it occurs because the lesser team is playing really well that series. That fits nicely within the bounds of statistical chance, but statistical chance/randomness is not the reason it happens.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Jul 4, 2009 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cruz's defense
(And similarly, the suggestion in the comments that if Anderson watched the Rangers play he’d know Nelson Cruz isn’t a good defender is misguided…the numbers so far this season indicate that Cruz has been one of the best defensive right fielders in the game. That’s the same attitude that had people insisting, in the face of all objective evidence, that Derek Jeter and Michael Young weren’t terrible defensive shortstops for so long.)
The same numbers that show Nelson Cruz to be one of the best defensive right fielders in the game are the numbers that show Ian Kinsler to be one of the worst second basemen in the game, and Cal Ripken, Jr. to be one of the greatest shortstops of all time. Defensive statistical analysis has yet to figure out how to quantify good defense. It is painfully evident watching Cruz play that he often reacts incorrectly to line drives and fly balls, taking a step in instead of back and then scrambling to make a fairly routine catch, takes poor routes to balls, and consistently looks bewildered when attempting to play balls off the wall even in his home-field.
I am not suggesting that he is a terrible defender in the outfield, but I am suggesting that perhaps his stellar defense on paper could be the result of one of those “unsustainable trends” that this article suggests are completely random and are not at all influenced by conditioning, approach, or perhaps good coaching. How many AB’s before a trend can be called a trend and not a fluke?
by tett on Jul 6, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Zoinks!
9 ER in 5 IP for Millwood so far tonight vs. the Angels? Zoinks! Let the regression begin!
by noxad on Jul 6, 2009 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 
















