Stat of the Day
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2009 12:00 PM CDT
Email
PrintJarrod Saltalamacchia's major league line:
.254/.315/.387
Jarrod Saltalamacchia's line this season, as the Rangers' starting catcher:
.240/.291/.364
For all the talk this past offseason about the Rangers' great catching depth, come this team in 2010, the piece the Rangers may well be looking to add is a starting-caliber catcher, because I think there's a real possibility right now that there's not a player in the system who is a starting-caliber major league catcher, either now or in the future.
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Schuerholz
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 30, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions
Of course, Law was high on him this year...
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 30, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
damn, wish we would have moved Salty when he had value
Rumors of Bowden and Bard still dancing in my head. Talk about values trending in opposite directions…
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
Don't remind me.
I had a paper route when I was a kid. I was supposed to go to 2,000 houses. Or two dumpsters.
Yep
I think its very likely that Catcher becomes one of our weaker links. Salty may leap forward all of a sudden, but it gets less likely with every AB.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
there’s a real possibility right now that there’s not a player in the system who is a starting-caliber major league catcher, either now or in the future
Can we at least give Teagarden an opportunity to prove whether he is or isn’t?
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
I'd just as soon see
Maxram get opportunities as Teagarden.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Teagarden
I think there are questions about his ability to physically handle playing 120 games behind the plate.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
those are legitimate questions
But why not run him out there as the full time guy for a month or so and start to get some clarity on that? If he holds up physically and is producing, run him out there another month. What’s to lose, other than some more of that .240/.291/.364 ?
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
Huh?
sounds like nonsense unless you are willing to say that about every player on the team with a surgically repaired part…the question is his hit tool.
Teagarden
I think there are questions about his ability to catch a 9 inning game without allowing at least 1 wild pitch or passed ball.
Oh, yeah…he also sucks at hitting a baseball.
But, he went to UT so many will still clamor for him to play more and more and more. If Teagarden had gone to Georgia Tech, those same people would be blasting him.
The more I see Teagarden the less I like him.
He looks terrible both off and defense. Leads in passed balls in 1/4 time.
by diamond_dave on Jul 30, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
He definitely has done
nothing to impress this year.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
What is your love affair with TT?
He just isnt a great player
i still think we need to be a little more patient with salty…if he cant improve next year though, ill be right there with you
He's 23 years old
And a player who accelerated quickly through the minors. Give him a break.
He's 24
And has over 800 major league plate appearances.
And has been getting worse, not better, each year in the majors.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
If only we traded him for Bucholz
when we had a chance. Stupid JD.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Then
we should have done Davis for Cain. Stupid JD.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
No
I just want to throw out trades tossed around this board that had no basis in reality and finish my post with Stupid JD.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Soriano for Liriano
Stupid JD.
Fun!
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
Davis for Greinke
Stupid JD.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
What about a guy
who’s 28 with over 1200 ML PA’s who’s throwing up .224/.272/.388. Does that guy concern you more or less than Salty?
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
by TheJeezus on Jul 30, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
hmmmmm
Rudy Jaramillo concerns me.
by rangersfan32 on Jul 30, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
heh
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by inactive lsb user on Jul 30, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
well at-least andrus panned out...
lol. I still want to give Salty some time though.
by rangersfan32 on Jul 30, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
May be being overly optimistic but
I think Salty will come around. I don’t think he’ll hit .300 w 35 hrs but he’s been focusing on defense, with good results, and with some time I think he’ll improve at the plate. Honestly, the one i’m more worried about is Hamilton.
I have a large amount of blind faith
that Salty will breakout next year. This was his first full season. He’s young. Last year he played winter ball and tutored under Scott Servais during the offseason. I am hoping that having this coming offseason to relax and regroup will be catalytic for him. I also don’t like the claim that he is “getting worse every year.” When you take into account his offense AND his D, I believe the sum is an improved player.
Defensive improvement….check.
Offensive improvement……coming soon (fingers crossed)
stupid question alert but
is there any kind of’metric or statistic that measures about how many MLB at bats it takes before a player sort of ’becomes what they are." Or is that simplifying to much?
Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Think Newberg said that Thadwick & Co
said that 700 plate appearances in The Show determines your ability to 90% accuracy.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that assuming you get those 700 PA by the time you are 24 years old?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
that was 750 ABs
and there wasn’t an age attached.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
OK
So Josey, do you think that around June of next year we will know pretty much what Elvis Andrus (at 21 years old) will do for the rest of his career offensively?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Pudge
Did we know what Pudge was after 750 ABs?
After 750 ABs, Pudge was a sub-700 OPS player.
His career OPS is now .800.
I think the whole 750 ABs thing is a little too simplified for a case like Salty, where he’s put alot of effort into his defense and has clearly let his offense lapse a bit.
Give him another year and I think we’ll start seeing him progressing the right direction in total, because while his OBP and average have dropped while his SLG has gone up a tick. He’s making solid contact when he makes contact, and I think he just needs a little more time to put it all together at the big level.
Exactly my point
If he was walking at the same rate as last year while maintaining his slugging his numbers would look just fine. Cut down on the strikeouts and increase the walks and you have yourself an above average defensive catcher with good offense and only 24-25 years old
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Eh if salty hadn't developed defensively he'd be a bust
I think his offense will improve enough to be starting caliber.
Of course its certainly correct that our supposed catching depth is suddenly much less impressive, no doubt.
the preceding post was a great success.
This
Salty concentrated extremely hard on his defense this past year probably to the detriment of his bat. I fully expect him to improve his offense over the next year or so.
Salty
I am resigned to the fact he is probably a 250 hitter (.265 at best). The thing is his OBP which has tumbled this year. I have been very adament that its not that big a deal to me because he showed patience, albeit a little too much, last year. His power has increased which is what we were led to believe was his biggest asset when we traded for him along with his defense improving. I crunched the numbers yesterday and if he was just walking somewhat close to the rate he was last year his numbers would look drastically better. Last year he had 31 walks in 230 PA. This year only 18 in 280 PA. For my little exercise I took 17 at bats and changed them into walks to give him 35 walks in 280 PA and his line would suddenly look like this……257/ 352/ 390. I could live with that from an above average defensive catcher
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
change some of his strikeouts to homeruns
I bet that would help his numbers too.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
So, not only
do you ignore some ABs, you now convert some outs to walks.
Excellent statwork.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Im trying to demonstrate he has been too aggressive this year
Last year he was too patient. This year its too aggressive. There is a middle ground somewhere. if he was walking at the same rate as last year people wouldn’t be bitching about him. But hes not. Not that he cant its just hes not. I don’t think his career line is indicitive of what hes gonna give us down the road. I think he will end up being a .255/.350/.400 type hitter for the most part.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think
he’ll be a 250/300/400 hitter like all Ranger catchers post-Pudge.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
he's known for it
His research in this thread and others has led me to the startling conclusion that if you remove at bats/innings pitched that end in negative outcomes, and replace those with fictional at bats/innings pitched that have pretend positive outcomes, the numbers nearly always improve.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
That is some excellent
statistical insight :)
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Thru his career in 156 plate appearances
Teagarden has a .234 batting average / .297 obp.
This year in 280 plate appearances, Salty has a .240 batting average / .291 obp
Teagarden struggles big-time playing 20% of the time but it’s not like Johnny Bench circa 1970 is playing in front of him.
We should at least see what he can do if playing 50% of the time.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
Based on what
I swear some of you live in fantasy land
why dont we let Nate Gold take over first…shit, maybe he’ll put out a 300/400/500 line
the truth is we shouldve traded TT in the offseason for the best deal
gives some perspective on the Texeira trade
A pessimistic but perhaps realistic view of the return:
1) Elvis
2) a power relief arm (Feliz)
3) a catcher with below average bat and average D
4) an injury prone lefty starter with below average command and breaking stuff
5) a reliever with a AAA celiing
Of course we hope Feliz develops his breaking stuff and makes it as a starter. But it could be that the supposed trade of the century was not such a haul after all.
I said this the other day...
That trade was Teixeira for Andrus, Feliz and organizational fodder from the Braves.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
really?
If we ended up with a gold glove SS, a shut down closer, a league average catcher, and a 5th starter for 6 years in exchange for 1.3 seasons of Tex you would be upset?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That trade is still under evaluation, big steve
but it is beginning to crystallize.
Upset? Let’s see how everything plays out.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
No you're looking at it wrong
The trade was incredible. If you want to find a place to blame JD, it’s for not turning the players he received before their value decreased.
But the trade was one of the best in our franchise’s history because less than one year later, we could have gotten (virtually) any player in baseball if we had re-traded those 5 players.
I think JD did all the right things here, personally. If a prospect doesn’t work out there isn’t much you can do, but there’s no doubt that scouts liked Saltalamacchia.
That the "Teixeira Trade" has become part of the lexicon is telling
I recently heard that used in an NBA trade reference…“Looking to Teixeira some GM”
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
The trade
It may turn out that the Teixeira trade, while still a win for the Rangers, was not as big a win as it looked like 6 months ago.
That said, I love me some Elvis.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
Which is exactly why I keep saying
let everything play out before having a decisive judgment on this deal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
yet you seem so quick to judge every move the second it starts to look like it might be bad
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Some moves are more obvious to judge than others, bigsteve.
The Tex Trade is going to take so much more time to evaluate than the Danks Debacle or AGonzales F up because it’s possible that Andrus becomes 90% of what Roberto Alomar was and it’s still difficult to know what Feliz is going to become.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
And based on your thought process
We will know what Andrus is around June of next year at the ripe old age of 21 right?
What happens if Danks goes out and tears his rotator cuff and pulls a Justin Thompson on Chicago while McCarthy finds his niche and pitches like a quality pitcher for the next 8-10 years for us. Will it still be a debacle?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
bigsteve...those are Thadwick's numbers and those
are the same dumbasses that thought a 40 year old CF could help your team win hitting leadoff in Texas and that giving Sammy Sosa 315 plate appearances against RH pitching was a good idea, especially if he hits clean-up.
I’ve said all along that IF Andrus could survive his first year in The Show without drowning as a 20 year old that there’s a chance he could eventually be a superstar and a good chance he’s at least a star.
I think it’s dangerous to put a roof on a player like this and I also believe Thadwick’s numbers aren’t for players like Elvis Andrus or for any other 20 year olds that can survive a year in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
Josey
Lofton hit 303 with a 380 OBP and was not blocking any young player so there is no reason to be pissed about that signing.
As for Sosa. How many of those ABs against RHP came AFTER he hit his 600th HR? We all know he was signed as a publicity thing and the allure of him hitting his 600th HR was why he was signed. He hit his 600th HR on June 20th of 2007. The only complaint about him playing against RHP comes after that date.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The Colon trade was viewed as a steal for the Indians
They got Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore.
I said at the time that if Salty becomes Phillips, Harrison becomes Lee (this was pre-2008, when Lee was a middling mediocre disappointment), and Andrus becomes Sizemore, you’d have two disappointments from the group and still be happy with the outcome.
Salty is looking like the Brandon Phillips of the deal.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
right now
the only claim that you can make about Telis is that he profiles as a nice contact hitter with gap power. His catching skills are TBD. Macumba should get more ink than he does IMO.
The kid is 18.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 30, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
I think we should point out all the inconsistencies with this team in one morning, but not really mention or flaunt the fact that we’re 8-2 in our last 10
(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."
OT:
Josh Willingham was just pulled from the Nationals lineup, per the Washington Times’ Twitter.
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
Getting word
of an “injury thing”. Whatever the hell that means…
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
Yeah
pretty sure that’s not an accepted medical term…injury thing, virus thing, cancer thing. I don’t remember anything like that on House
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
by TheJeezus on Jul 30, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rangers doctors have diagnosed Willingham
with an unidentified injury.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
Willingham
Supposedly out with “stiff neck”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2009/07/something_brewing_willingham_p.html
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Gardner, What you should do is tip your cap and then move forward with your tail tucked snugly in your gash."
by Josey Wales on Jul 30, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
They would do a pretrade physical
and find he has TOS.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
by RangerMad on Jul 30, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's a good thing we have
that TOS specialist then…
I had the flu way before having the flu was cool
by TagDon'tTweet on Jul 30, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Now they're saying a "stiff neck."
Still not sure I buy it.
"I love winning." - rockin_rangers, on May 16, 2009
Maybe he doesn't want to be traded.
That would indeed be stiff-necked.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: "Can't take a fucking to save their lives" (lisa w, 2009).
So can we just give a kid like a year to develop?
Nobody thought he could play defense until he went out and proved everyone else wrong. Right now, his batting line just kind of looks like, well – a catcher’s. Let him work on his bat and see if it can come back even a little to where projections had him at coming out of the minors. Just a little patience, please?
by jam0152 on Jul 30, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
patience is not allowed around here
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
you forget
Adam and the rest of the nerds are experts are predicting future performance.
FOTF should be out of baseball by now.
Not ready to abandon ship just yet...
He was asked this offseason to shift focus to defensive improvement, and he’s leaps and bounds ahead of where he was last year defensively…
PATIENCE… I’d venture to guess if we were hovering around .500 and 10 or so games out, we wouldn’t be wringing our hands over this and people would be harping on letting the kids develop…
It’s his first extended opportunity as a starting catcher, and it’s coming off an offseason where he was told to make his defense his primary focus…
He's in great shape right now, and he has shown to have great work ethic as a Ranger.
The talent to hit is there, he’s just got to put it all together.
Needs the power to come next year if he wants to survive in the AL.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by inactive lsb user on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions
This thread is an offshoot of Hamilton and Kinsler's struggles
no one bitches about Salty if Hammy and Kinsler’s number were what everyone expected.
If he doesn’t show any improvement at the plate next year, then I START to get worried.
That is probably true.
If Kinsler and Hammy were hitting in their ranges, it would be much easier to deal with young players struggling offensively at up the middle defensive positions.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Ok, this is getting out of Hand AJM, i really dont think you have perspective
You are not going to trade for another catcher right now, you still have three young catchers all with talent who have all as recently as last year been heralded by one source or another as a top ten young catcher in baseball. I really think you’ve lost some perspective here. Yes, they’ve all struggled this year, but you still have to be patient.
I guess you can be glad we have yet to trade any of them yet b/c we could have been stuck with the one who will ultimately not make it out of this funk that they’re all in, but to overreact against one season of failure (most of the fail is just Salty’s offensive game, the wrist of Max, and the minimal amount of failed ABs TT has had) is not the way to go with these three young catchers.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
Salty
I’m pessimistic but I still think he might have a chance. Its possible he got one of those “just worry about the defense and anything you give us on offense is a bonus” type of speeches from management this offseason.
He has made a huge leap defensively. Maybe once he starts concentrating more on his offense, he will get better. His patience is gone. Working with another hitting couch probably couldn’t hurt.
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