Fox Sports Southwest Thinks We Want to Watch Fluff
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2009 4:01 PM CDT
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PrintBarry Horn had a post up yesterday, criticizing the Rangers and Fox Sports Southwest for continuing to squeeze out action during Rangers games to make room for Jim Knox interviews and general fluff.
Although he doesn't mention it, this goes hand-in-hand with Josh Lewin and Tom Grieve seemingly going out of their way to work in all sorts of off-topic nonsense, tangents that get beaten into the ground (did you know Torii Hunter lives in the D/FW area? did you know that Hunter Pence went to UTA? did you know that Michael Young and Vernon Wells are best friends?) relating to players on opposing teams, and do pretty much anything except talk about the game.
Horn has a follow-up today, with an email from a FSSW executive producer justifying the fluff by saying it is " to illustrate the ballpark experience so that fans at home can get a sense of what it's like to attend a Rangers game in person."
One of the things that I've come to grips with is that I'm not someone that TV networks are at all interested in catering to. What I think and what I want from a broadcast is irrelevant, because FSSW figures I'm going to watch all the Rangers games anyway, and Fox knows I'll watch the World Series and the playoffs even with Joe Buck and Tim McCarver foolishness in the booth, so my feelings on a broadcast are pointless.
Fox is dedicated to getting the channel-surfers and casual fans watching. And, apparently, they've decided that casual Rangers fans really want to see a bunch of interviews in the stands instead of the game, and would rather hear a bunch of Twitter talk and irrelevant b.s. than hear talk about the game itself.
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Because apparently the game can't sell itself? Stupid tv executives.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Uh, Adam
it’s Fox Sports, home of the Worst Damn Sports Show, Period. And ESPN isn’t much better. The reason you need to keep this site going is so that the demographic that the traditional media ignores continues to move online in hopes of reasoned, rational analysis. The casual fan gets fed crap and likes it.
Your uncle molests collies.
Ballpark Experience?
What the fuck does that even mean? I know I wouldn’t want to experience Jim Knox at the ballpark. I’d venture to guess that most people who’d watch a Rangers game on Television have been in person a couple of times and know what it’s like. That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
Whoever said that needs to be fired. If they want Knox and the like on there, do it coming back from the break but never or at least barely ever while an at-bat has taken place.
Grieve and Lewin may be talking bullshit, but if the damn camera is following the action I’m okay with that.
josh lewin is talking the bs
i mute my tv so i don’t have to hear that squek and just watch the came with no sound
by kaiserbillwolf on Jul 31, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
the FSSW rep is correct.
I identify more with you, AJM, and the other LSBers in that I would watch all of the games anyway. But I know about 10 other Rangers casual fans who wouldn’t watch the Rangers games if not for the fluff. I know y’all think I am stupid, but these other people either simply are not smart enough or don’t want to make time to grasp all of these statistical concepts or read Moneyball or BP.
Bobby Jindal '12
I think the point is
…that there’s some middle ground, and the Rangers broadcasts have been leaning way too heavily in the fluff direction.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
i don't think so
I don’t think you understand how stupid the average Rangers TV viewer is, honestly. Heck, even the people at the games.
Bobby Jindal '12
Hm
I don’t think you realize how stupid you are, and maybe that’s the problem. Stupid people think everyone but them is stupid, when in reality…
Anyway people are smarter than you give them credit for. TV producers really do ruin shit. They’ve ruined shit on TV forever.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with you BF
They aren’t stupid, just casual fans who are not informed in great depth about the team. But they are the foundation of the fan base, not the relatively small number of fans that participate here or on other sites. The attitude of dstar reflects the elitism of the posters in here, many of whom disagree even though well informed. Without all those casual fans who just enjoy a baseball game nowand then, even if they don’t meet your high standards, there would be no local team.
Foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of little minds - Emerson
Middle ground
Is what they need. As ive said before I dont mind some knox stuff or the tom and josh tangents but they need to come at more appropriate times
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I fucking hate the Knox stuff
But, part of that is because it’s “Knoxie” that’s doing it. I imagine that would dissipate a good damn deal if they didn’t have a guy most of DFW would like to see w/ a toe tag doing the spots.
The other puzzler is why why why do they give twitter so much free advertising? There really must be some serious coin exchanging hands on that one. It’s not like I am one of these obstinate fogeys who bloviates between harumphs about how stupid this twitter thing that I have never tried is, I have no opinion on the tweetage. I’m just really befuddled by how incessantly they make those cheesy, cornpone references to it.
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
by Brian Thomas on Jul 31, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
There must be some money changing hands
If they gave this much free advertising to one company, all of the companies that pay to advertise with the Rangers on TV would be pretty pissed off.
The Rangers have rolled up the welcome mat and bludgeoned the Angels with it. - Josh Lewin
there is no money changing hands
their ceaseless promotion of twitter is a way to market themselves and, ideally, make the fox sports brand more visible.
i think it is sort of stupid myself. it seems like a lot of media are trying to push their twitters aggressively on viewers as some newfangled improvement on their existing product, when really it is mostly just superfluous fluff. now i am not opposed to the concept of twitter, nor do i deny it has a role to play, but the way most media outlets have tried to incorporate it just doesn’t add anything. i think there is a bit of fear to it, fear of being the last guy on the bandwagon in case twitter does become an essential vehicle for information sharing, so they get one, promote the hell out of it, and concoct ways to use it as a bridge to the audience.
anyway, back to the original point – twitter doesn’t pay for marketing, as far as i know, and why would they? the endless references on FSSW broadcasts are tedious and annoying, but i guess someone in the organization thinks it will heighten their visibility and consumer loyalty or something.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Aug 1, 2009 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I really doubt that anyone watches FOR the fluff.
by bdavison94 on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i just don't think
the television would remain on that channel without… they don’t have a good enough attention span.
Bobby Jindal '12
Fluff
Dude, I totally dvr’d dog night specifically to see if knox had embarrassing dog moments
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
hey man, his dancing with the great dane
a few years ago was freaking hilarious. I couldn’t pass up that kind of comedy goldmine
but he let me down :(
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I wish they would take the feedback that baseball fans:
• have all been to the ballpark and don’t need the experience
• are watching the TV broadcast to watch the game
• when knox or the like comes on it can lead to those of us who are watching to turn the channel
my grandma and grandpa
watch every game and have never been to a game. They live in Irving.
Many Rangers fans in West Texas have probably never been to a game.
Bobby Jindal '12
My Grandmother
Lives in the area but has never been to a game. She doesn’t know what the hell Twitter is and hates “that idiot who interviews those drunks”.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha, ha ha.
Is that an actual direct quote?
That’s pretty hilarious if true.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
My grandmother can be pretty colorful.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
The older the berry...
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
No.
Old ladies need love too.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously, don't be an ass.
My family is going through a hard time with this, actually. Normally I’m not really that sensitive as you probably know, but with this one I’m gonna have to ask you to knock it off, gentleman to gentleman. Thanks.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Well you're the one who made it specific.
I was just making a general old lady joke and there’s no way that could be interpreted any differently.
So, whatever.
Sucks about the family woes and I wish you nothing but the best in that tough situation (seriously, I do… that sucks, man), but freaking out and taking obviously not meant to be personal stuff personally is one of the lamest things a man can do, gentlemen to gentlemen.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's the worst when people are making your momma jokes
and all of a sudden someone freaks out and takes a swing at you saying “don’t fucking talk about my mom.”
I mean what the hell. I wasn’t actually going to bang your mom. I don’t really like her breasts. She’s 57. I think I can do better than that.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
LOL.
Exactly.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude....
I had a friend who I knew and his grandmother’s nurse who took great care of her used to use that lol phrase all the time, but now she is sick.
Back the fuck off.
by SaltyGoesYard on Jul 31, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Did you have any friends you didn't know?
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 31, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I don't think I was freaking out, exactly
But, yeah, whatever. No problem.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
blacker the berry!
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
She is.
Unfortunately her health is waning. Practically raised me and I love her dearly. But she can be really, uh, forward at times. Makes Clint Eastwood’s character in “Gran Torino” look like a sissy nice guy.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
They can talk about stupid things all they want
Just quit going split-screen while the game is actually going on for cripe’s sake. Community corner in the top of the 2nd drives me insane for that reason.
Amen
That’s all I ask. Just don’t split the screen when a pitch is coming. I can get past the chatter.
It’s really pretty simple. Shot of interview between pitches. Shot of pitcher with sound from interview when a pitch is coming. How hard is that?
I’m not endorsing any of that crap either. I just recognize that it’s going to be part of the broadcast.
This would work better than what they're doing now.
It would be a little harder out in the truck I guess, but those guys are pros and I’m sure they could handle it.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if this is what the casual fan wants, then prove it.
Tell Knox to take a week vacation, tell Tag and Lewin to stick to calling the game, then after that week show me the Nielson Ratings. Give me the ratings at the specific time during the game Knox would normally perform his gig, and let’s see if there is any difference at all.
that's a really fallacious argument
there is no possible way that consumer behavior works like you think it does.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
The principle is sound.
It’s just not practical.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
no it's not
a one week ratings slice is going to tell you nothing about how viewers make choices, especially when you couple it with a number of faulty assumptions.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 31, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why it's not practical.
Given a long enough sample, the principle is sound.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 31, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, but even with a long sample
the premise has a number of other flaws that make it a poor reflection of what sort of effect the knox productions have on viewers. if the principle is that it is theoretically possible to measure such an effect, then yes it is sound.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 31, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand your point, and for the most part I agree
I am more or less saying, what would the ratings show if the so called “fluff” was not a part of the production. You seem to be more educated on it than me, so explain to me how the fluff adds value to a production of a baseball game and attracts for more viewers?
by Hookem4life84 on Jul 31, 2009 6:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i won't say that i'm very educated on it
but if you want to determine whether the fluff production adds viewers, youd need to take a look at ratings over a longer period. you’d also want to make a distinction between acquiring new viewers and retaining current viewers. it’d also be hard to examine ratings differential during jim knox segments specifically because they happen sporadically throughout the game. maybe you could take a look at the within game variance in ratings (if they even take that info) for the current broadcast, noting if his presence seems to have any affect. and then compare variance within games without knox.
you also have to control for a number of other factors, like the time of year, time of day, what station the game is on, who the opposing team is, what the Ranger’s record is, etc. that all affect ratings. otherwise you might incorrectly associate a ratings spike or dip with the presence of jim knox.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 31, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not necessarily Jim Knox that is my problem.
…though I do hate Jim Knox. It’s the fact that they either a) make the action a TINY box in the corner, or B) cut away from the action altogether. I can tune out TAG and Josh telling me about Vernon Wells. When they cut away from the game, there is nothing I can do. It pisses me way the fuck off.
by FuturePants on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
O/T Talk, Knoxy, Twitter, whatever. Just SHOW THE GAME. We don’t need to see Community Corner, just talk about it and let me see the top of the 2nd inning!
"Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane." ---Red, The Shawshank Redeption
I'm with this
I don’t hate Jim Knox as a person or anything, though…it’s just that it seems like almost every time they’re bantering with him or whatever something happens on the field. He really has no place on the broadcast at all but if they insist on having him it should only be when they come back from break and never, ever during an at bat. Ever. And if they insist on doing that, it’s his schtick that should be in the little box in the corner, not the game.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it's even Knox I hate, it's the entire idea of a sideline reporter/at large stadium correspondent that I hate so much.
I’m sure Knox and other people like him are fine dudes. They probably spend their days wearing designer sandals and selling hot dogs to underpriveleged fat kids to raise money for orphanges or whatever it is good people do with their time…
I just hate the inane babbly I’m subjected to during all sports telecasts all because TV producers think having an at large correspondent giving awkward as fuck in-game interviews to random fans is something that “enhances the viewing experience” when no one other than fucking them believes that.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
Agreed completely. He’s just a guy doing a job that shouldn’t exist.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, you said what I said, only you said it better and using way less words.
He’s just a guy doing a job that shouldn’t exist.
That sums up the entire issue.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
But baby steps. Let’s just get rid of the split screen first.
epitome
showing stupid batting stance guy instead of elvis going to the whole to make a spinning throw.
seemed like TAG and Lewin were both kind of pissed off about that.
If you are going to do that stuff, just cut back to the game when something’s about to happen and get rid of batting stance guy. you can show him later
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Yep
they commented on how it was a great play, too bad the viewers were watching batting stance guy instead. That one situation summed up the problem nicely.
The Rangers have rolled up the welcome mat and bludgeoned the Angels with it. - Josh Lewin
I don't curse much around here, but...
I fucking hate Batting Stance Guy. He’s the real tipping point for me. Ric Renner + Jim Know + Twitter = me barely hanging on. Now that Batting Stance Guy is around, I’m done.
Unfortunately, I can’t not watch a game, so I have to resist the urge to eat a bullet several every night.
by NoNameOnCard on Jul 31, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
not seeing the action of the game gets frustrating
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I think it’s a Fox Sports problem in general. FSN Houston does a lot of the same for Astros games.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but the game is why I watch the network, not the talking heads. So show the damn game.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
No, it's not Fox Sports in general.
FSNW has never done that with the Mariners in all my time in Washington. And getting the Extra Innings package the last couple years, I haven’t seen another Fox Sports channel that even approaches the Rangers.
As said, when Knox comes on, I always change to the other feed because they actually show the game. And I often end up staying a while.
If they never
talked about Twitter, I will be happy.
"I can wake up out of the bed and play outfield. It's easy." --Milton Bradley
Jesus H.
These TV producers are genuinely stupid individuals.
They all need to die in some sort of chemical plant explosion- the kind where when a video of the aftermath surfaces it ends up being gruesomely heinous to the point where not even the internet will show that shit.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
they probably aren't that stupid
but that doesn’t mean they are nice to fans.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Second the emotion
I care all and only about the game on the field. And understand that commercials exist to pay for my broadcast viewing. “Ballpark experience” my tough skinned ancient rectum !! There is only one ballpark experience, which is go see the game and pay attention to the game (and shove people doing the wave down about four rows, subtly but swiftly). I admit to some multitasking when watching on television. That includes eating, napping, paying bills, talking to family or friends on a phone.
Two things for the producers at Fox – your broadcast journalism degree has taught you nothing about people. And Josh Lewin needs to speak only about action on the field, pregame or postgame scene setting or results commentary, or ask Tom baseball questions. And stop the constant, unrelenting, endless, annoying blather unless relevant to the game at hand.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
wow
You can nap and watch the game at the same time? Impressive.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland - 2009 Rangers Minor League POY
Yep.
It got me through 42 years of marriage – handle the information flow but get my rest at the same time.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
…lolz at the marriage comment. I’m not married but have gotten close enough to know what you’re talking about.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The ballpark experience isn’t awkward interaction between groups of fans and constantly being interrupted while you’re watching the game… I mean, those are things you are likely to experience while at a game, but they’re not what you’re there to experience.
You’re there for the baseball game.
You wanna immerse us in the ballpark experience? Immerse us in the fucking game.
Using awkard interviews of random fans and cutaways to Knox running around being an ass on purpose as a means of immersing us in the ballpark experience is like making a video game about killing vampires and making going to the store to buy garlic a huge gameplay element. I mean, sure, it’s part of the vampire hunter experience, but it’s not the part anyone wants to experience, you stupid rape-worthy idiots.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Most awkward Jim Knox moment...
for me was earlier this year when he was interviewing some WWII vet. The guy launched into a long gruesome story about some firefight where a bunch of his buddies got killed, clearly much more information than Knoxy was counting on. Texas Rangers, built for fun!
Yeah that was total fail
That was the one interview that probably should have been on the air, and of course Knox couldn’t handle the gravity and if I remember right they pretty much shut it down and cut away. Talk about awkward. Also if I’m remembering correctly he referred to some famous battle like Iwo Jima as a war in and of itself. Fucking stupid.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
my favorite this year
was the kid who was all stoked about the holocaust museum
by Clownballoon on Jul 31, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
So
who’s red tee shirt jersey should I buy at tonight’s game. I’m definitely leaning Elvis Andrus.
Bobby Jindal '12
probably the pink
Kinsler jersey. Diamond studded # on the shirt of course.
Post.Fail.
by red shoe ranger on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Custom make a Roy Halladay jersey.
Everybody has a:
Young
10
You’ll be the only one with a:
HALLADAY
>:(
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That would be awesome
Too bad you can only get numbers (from the official Rangers store)
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
oh, my God
this is the funniest thing I’ve read all day.
"You got a guy coming up there who can’t hit water if he fell out of a boat." - Tom Grieve on Richie Sexson, 5.8.2008
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
"When it comes to Jeff Mathis, the story ends with us putting one in his earhole." - AJM, 7.7.08
None of them
There is a little stand near the first base entrance that sells old game used jersey’s. Last I saw there was a Matt Kata and John Koronka jersey in there. Go for one of those.
Fluff
As a dedicated fan Knox could be farting on a snare drum and I’d still watch the game.
But I work in media, and you have to see that FSSW is providing everyone a service by broadcasting local games to local audiences. And to keep their ratings up for adverts to pay for that service they need to cater to all adults in that coveted 18-49 demographic.
They promote local charities, community groups, and give a few fans each night a personal dose of tv time which prob makes a better story than just seeing your face on the big screen.
I think they’ve done a good job integrating advertisers into their in game featurettes without being too intrusive to the game, and providing decent interaction with the viewers.
It’s a lot better than espn on field reporters talking about how x player tied their show in a double knot while holding up a pair of nikes and handing said player a blue Gatorade G that he doesn’t even want to drink.
"Fight ’em ’til hell freezes over, then fight ’em on the ice!" – Dutch Meyer
by CowboyHornedFrogs on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I pretty much completely disagree.
Jim Knox does NOTHING for the ratings. It’s actually silly to think otherwise in my opinion.
Id agree with that
Knox by himself does nothing for ratings.
But he is part of the production, and just happens to be the equivilant of an NFL sideline reporter, and it happens to be the sidelines in baseball are basically the fans.
So be it Knox or replace him with some bodacious broad, either way they aren’t going to do anything about the fluff.
"Fight ’em ’til hell freezes over, then fight ’em on the ice!" – Dutch Meyer
by CowboyHornedFrogs on Jul 31, 2009 4:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Is your hair a bird?
Cause your argument is invalid.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
"without being too intrusive to the game"
Should never ever be intrusive to the game, and the fear is that it’s only going to get worse.
Never
The adverts are going to be there. But rather than :15 lead in fancy graphic like on espn. You just see a walking duck reveal a trivia question, or a static logo next to a potential winner if the rangers get a hr during non action moments. That intrudes on the airing of the game but rarely cuts into the actual action.
"Fight ’em ’til hell freezes over, then fight ’em on the ice!" – Dutch Meyer
by CowboyHornedFrogs on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If the point of all this conversation was here, you'd be way off somewhere in the distance twiddling your thumbs and arguing with a cactus.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Wallop! Texas Rangers shortstop Michael Young fouled the ball lofting it high into the stadium and the hand of the athletic father.
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
i hate twitter and used to hate Knox
In previous years Knox seemed like he didn’t care and wouldn’t listen to the people he is interviewing. This year, he seems to be more involved and the 10 seconds that it cuts to Knox is not that big of a deal. He has done some surprisingly good interviews this year amongst all the crap.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
he has?
he is a terrible interviewer, asks poorly worded questions, and often struggles to get them out….
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
the fluff is for baseball idiots
like my wife. It gives her something to comment on while sitting on the couch next to me.
What I really want to watch though are clips from 10 cent beer night all those years ago. Did MLB just burn the footage of that?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
I generally like the presentation...
with the exception of Jim Knox. Beating.
There is (and should be) a difference between the TV guys’ and the Radio guys’ styles… and I think that difference is at the heart of this conversation.
i've said it before
i’m sure consultants tell fsn that viewers wanna see that.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
you nailed it
they know we’ll watch the game no matter what…so they dont really give a fuck about us
but consultants think
that non fans will watch the game because they are more friendly or something. i guess they see ratings increase as proof in the pudding. instead of better play.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
I like the Rangers Broadcast
sure tag not tweeting can get old, but over all I think they do a really good job, and you all are nit picking
i agree
i purchased mlb.tv this year, and have had the opportunity to watch some of the other teams broadcasts in which I learned that the Rangers didn’t have it so bad as some other teams in the booth. We are, especially, lucky to have the pleasure to listen to Eric Nadel as well. That will spoil you as a Rangers fan
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Enjoy TAG
I could live without Knox as well and Josh is a bit much most of the time. But I think TAG really adds to the broadcast. A really good guy with some real insight into the game. I enjoy most of his comments and even think Josh wears him out some.
Foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of little minds - Emerson
Love this cranky post Adam.
I also find alot of the broadcast content highly irritating. Thank God for DVR and the fast forward button.
Dislike:
-Knox and his awkward interviews. Wouldn’t mind an in-stands interview now and again but they do about 5 too many, and Knox is terrible.
-Lewin. He’s a good announcer, and it’s not his dorkyness that bothers me, it’s his homerism. It’s tiring. I like it when he does games for Fox where he has to be objective…..he’s really good then.
-Marklemore saying ‘Definitely’, or ‘Absolutely.’ I’m a huge Marklemore fan but he needs some new opening phrases.
Like:
-TAG. Like his Prairie-Home-Companion hellos and thank yous, and generally agree with his opinions, and he’s got some good stories.
- JD or Nolan or Fergie Jenkins in the booth. That sort of thing.
- Emily Jones, she’s hot.
Lewin
I actually like the guy, but if there’s one thing I think he must do better is engage TAG in baseball conversation. That man is a goldmine of stories and information and it’s sort of like it goes to waste most nights.
I also like it when they have good guests in the booth. Will Clark when they were in SF was one of my favorites.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
TAG and Josh have gotten a lot better...
but man, I still love their awkward silence douche chill moments even to this day. They are golden gold.
“He really let loose on that one, right TAG?” -Josh
“…” -TAG
“And here’s the 2-2 pitch from Feldman…” -Josh
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 31, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
When I was living in Austin a few years ago...
…TWC would show the games on some weird channel, and every great now and then they’d get the feed from the truck before they were actually going on the air. Anyway, one night Lewin was gone for some reason and they had some other guy filling in for him. TAG and the fill-in were getting ready to do their pre-game thing, and were straightening their ties and shit like that in front of a dead camera. There was no audio. Suddenly the fill-in guy started imitating Lewin’s laser quick head movements…you know what I’m talking about? When he turns his head back and forth really quickly between TAG and the camera when he’s listening. Anyway I’m not describing it well but it was funnier than hell and TAG got a big kick out of it.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm from Austin too, and those were awesome. I remember one where
they didn’t cut to a commercial, and TAG was talking to the production staff and they were showing this section of the Seattle ballpark where there were a bunch of busty ladies sitting together, and TAG, talking to a production person you couldn’t hear said…. “what do they call it?….. the Silicone Valley?!” and he laughed and laughed. A Great moment in Television.
For the longest time, I would only watch the game on mlb.tv and never saw the pregame
and I never really got why people thought Lewin was dorky.
And then I saw the head turn thing and my perception of him changed completely.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Every once in a great while...
the guy at the mlb.tv computer will forget to put up the “commercial break” screen and we’ll get some comedy gold, like a night or two ago when they were talking about the growth on Jim Sundberg’s foot.
hehe
those moments used to happen a lot more often a few years ago :)
TAG is great. Also fun is when he decides to go off on someone (e.g. Sexson, Richie)
I wish I had taped
the time that TAG went off on Irabu while they were going off to break…..now that was classic stuff
La naiba cu Monkey Rally !!!!!
by Captain Fubar on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
going off on Avery wasn't bad
Sexson was the best though
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Lewin's dorkiness
does bother me. It’s like if my dad was trying to be cool or something. Just bad. I don’t mind the off the field stuff that AJM mentioned (Pence is a UTA grad, Vernon and MY are friends, etc.) however hearing the same info 100x per season gets old and makes Lewin appear to have zero talent and/or being completely unwilling to research fresh info.
I don't think research is the issue...
Lewin apparently has a giant binder with tons and tons of information that he is updating all the time. More likely, as Adam said, the broadcast is trying to appeal to the casual fans that are flipping channels and land on the game for a moment and are trying to use fluff to keep them on the game.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 31, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
You think...
it is an attempt to get more people to go to games and buy tickets?
For an average-sucky fan they see “cool/neat” things at the ballpark and decide they want to go and try it out.
For us it pisses us off that we have to listen to idiots rambling and decide we need to just start going to the games to avoid the circus on tv.
Family Friendliness
Horn has a follow-up today, with an email from a FSSW executive producer justifying the fluff by saying it is " to illustrate the ballpark experience so that fans at home can get a sense of what it’s like to attend a Rangers game in person."
Someone at FSSW needs to come up with a better line of bs.
When I am at a Rangers game, I don’t have Jim Knox jumping in front of me blocking my view of the game with some inane Ballpark tchotchke every inning. I also don’t have to hear about Hunter Pence, Vernon Wells, Adrian Gonzales or Twitter.
My issue with the culture surrounding the Rangers is this: The whole thing from the broadcast to the Ballpark is so goddamned family friendly that it comes off as an amusement park trip with a baseball game attached to it instead of, you know, a baseball game. I think the Knox’s schtick is directly a result of the whole family-friendliness thing. If you had something like that happen during Cubs games or Phils games or Red Sox games, Knox would need a security detail and they’d probably still sell him out for a good beating.
Perhaps the deal is that for most of us, baseball is the reason why we watch or listen or go to games whereas there has to be a hook for everyone else they’re trying to literally lure into watching or going to a game.
Time to go shake my cane at those damn kids on my lawn…
This
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 31, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Family Friendly
I hate that too. I honestly would rather watch a game where they had parabolics in the camera wells and we could hear the players talking shit. You know Tom Grieve wants to cuss like a sailor when he gets mad and I’d absolutely love it if he were free to do that.
Really I think they’d get better ratings on their cable ratings that way. Edge or whatever. Obviously it would never happen.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always wanted an option like this.
Cause right now if you don’t want to hear the announcers you have to hit mute, which sucks cause then you miss the crack of the bat roar of the crowd stuff that I actually do find genuinely immersive.
An option where they’d turn up the parablics and just let you listen to the sounds of the game would be fantastic.
They could still make their little ad pitches when there was a small break in the action and/or make more use of graphic/text-on-screen ads to make up for any revenue lost by the announcers “working stuff in” to the boradcast or whatever.
This needs to happen, but show producers are all fucktarded idiots like the guy who e-mailed Horn, so it never will. Joe Buck’s son will be doing World Series in 2034, and his son will be doing the 2051 games. Bank on it.
(BTW, Didn’t the NBA do this with one game a season or two ago? I think they did but I wasn’t able to catch it, iirc.)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Wallop! Texas Rangers shortstop Michael Young fouled the ball lofting it high into the stadium and the hand of the athletic father.
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I know the NFL did it for a couple of games
It was really weird.
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 31, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Problem is there’d have to be some editing. Teams would object for their pitcher/catcher conferences being aired on TV for obvious reasons. The union would object to mics on batters talking to catchers. Most of it is probably really boring shit but I’d like to hear some of it. You could really get into the game that way.
But I wouldn’t want to do away with the standard Play-by-play and color analyst configuration, either. I just would like to see them turned loose.
“Family Friendly” is ruining everything fun about, well, everything. It’s like children are some endangered species or something. Ridiculous. I was listening to KRLD today or yesterday for a traffic report and the guy on there was talking about the “beer summit” at the White House. Some lady called in and said they shouldn’t be doing that because it sends the wrong message to children: conflict resolution involving such an evil substance like beer. What the fuck ever.
I’d rather shit be grittier. Everything so fucking sparkly clean now.
by Black Francis on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The C-SPAN Option
Maybe we can get a “C-SPAN Option” in the future that cuts out the talking heads and just brings us the action.
by Mister Naxal on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Grieve and Wash Both
I just know Grieve can cuss a blue streak and my esteem for Wash went up a few notches when I found out that he talks with the players and coaches more like Robin Harris than Bill Cosby.
by Mister Naxal on Jul 31, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not just the Rangers games
All sports broadcasts are like this. Have you watched the Olympics in the last 20 years? It has got more fluff than sports content. They know the hardcore sports fans will watch no matter what. They have realized that they can get the borderline fans by showing the fluff. Fortunately, in the Olympics, I can zip through it with the DVRs fast-forward feature. During Ranger games (when I get to watch them), I have to watch them because they occur while play is in progress.
The line about “ballpark experience” is exactly that: a line. They can’t say its because they know that true fans are essentially a captive audience, so we’re screwing them.
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions
Is there anyone in the world
who is channel surfing through, sees a Jim Knox interview, and decides to stay with the game because of the Knox Box?
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
very valid question
You are obsessed with bodily wastes A turd being held under my nose, this team being a steaming pile, Jonny Donuts having a stinky diaper, the front office pissing themselves, the team crapping the bed…
I think you should seek counselling.
(AJM to Josey Donuts)
by Michael Cave on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions
95% of blog comments
Are twitter talk. And I love the phrase “twitter talk”. Let’s spread the short commented speak around and around.
"Purity of heart is to will one thing" - Kierkegaard
did you guys read this per mlbtr
5:10pm: The Blue Jays and Rangers were talking last night when they found that Halladay wouldn’t approve a deal to the Rangers, according to MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan. The sides weren’t close to a deal when they found out.
The Jays, like other teams the Rangers spoke with, coveted Derek Holland, Neftali Feliz, Justin Smoak and Pedro Borbon. Holland’s now in the majors and the other three rank on Jonathan Mayo’s updated list of top prospects.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
i love how no one can get our prospects names right
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
maybe he goes by pedro now
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
To be fair they do all kind of look the s.... What? Shut up. I was already leaving anyway.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Wallop! Texas Rangers shortstop Michael Young fouled the ball lofting it high into the stadium and the hand of the athletic father.
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
For me it doesn't make me enjoy the game any less
So I could really care less. Sometimes it does happen to be entertaining, rarely. But it happens. No point of acting like I’m mad about it.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
Wait I shouldn't have said "could really care less"
Someone is going to bouncing up and down on plate full of nuts ready to jump on that.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
COULDN'T! COULDN'T
but problem is it does take away from the enjoyment when they are showing knox instead of a home run or an andrus play
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
Anyone want to
go to the game tonight?
I’ll buy the beer
I had the flu way before having the flu was cool
by TagDon'tTweet on Jul 31, 2009 5:42 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
…I was almost tempted to drive up from Houston on that note.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
This is the exact reason
I tivo the game. I generally start about an hour, fifteen minutes behind the first pitch and fastforward though community corner, knox, batting stance guy, commercials, and stupid guests. There is no way I’d sit through that shit and FSSW is crazy if they think I’m the only one. I don’t watch anything live anymore because of stupid fluff like this.
NFL football actually became enjoyable again after the advent of Tivo and HD.
+2
It’s why I hate NBA Finals. 2 second of game, 5 hours of commercials. Repeat, and pray to God the game actually gets finished.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
All I know
is that I am rec’ing this post, tweeting it, “buzzing” it up, and sharing it with the facebook network.
It will illustrate the blogging experience to kids who, hopefully, may one day post on the internet.
"Guys are visual creatures, that’s how we’ve been wired, for millennia…only fat and or ugly chicks use that word you just typed." - Rodney
by inactive lsb user on Jul 31, 2009 6:01 PM CDT reply actions
Their ratings are waaay up
I know the team’s better, but it seems like their strategy works pretty well. None of are going to stop going to stop watching Rangers games.
It might actually work two-fold. The die-hard fans may be pushed to actually go to the games in order to avoid hearing it all.
Rangers Fluff is Rampant Everywhere...
I’m one of the Rangers Watchers, regardless of the fluff too but it’s a bit ironic when I log on here to get some “real” baseball comments and I see so many of you guys have silly quotes tagged to your comments…
Somebody tell me what’s the difference?
P.S. Just picking one at random but what the heck does “I’m just goofin’ new boot goofin” mean??
i can't even wrap my brain around
the comparison you are clumsily trying to make.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Aug 1, 2009 3:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I change the channel every time Knox is on.
Just not worth it. The other feed is always actually showing, y’know, baseball.
TAG and Lewin’s tangents don’t bother me, though. I can watch the game and ignore them. And unrelated tangents are ALWAYS better than wrong-headed baseball analysis.
Please, Knox is a Beast.
I'm Ron Burgundy?
by Cecilio's Guante on Aug 1, 2009 1:14 AM CDT reply actions
Yeah but
Exterminator services make pretty good coin getting rid of such critters.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Aug 1, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I dont mind Tom and Josh
I think they do a very entertaining broadcast. If I had to pick one fight, it’d be with the endless birthday wishes to some 90 year-old from parker county, so-and-so brought a batch of snickerdoodles to the booth, grandma’s recovering from hip surgery, etc. While i do respect these people, and i’m sure they are tickled to have their names read on the air, it’s just become a bit much lately. and i’m not pinning it on tom – i don’t know that it is his initiative to have these on the air, as much as it is just a duty of his….and he at least does a good job of working them in in a non-intrusive way.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Aug 1, 2009 3:25 AM CDT reply actions
In other words
The birthday wishes to the 90 year old grandmas are the new marriage proposals on the jumbotron. :o)
As for the fluff…
I work in corporate IT. I’d love for the collective computer IQ of our users to be raised to the point where we don’t have to idiot proof everything.
But that’s never going to happen.
If one of these types calls me, they call me and I just have to fight through it.
Kind of like I do all the fluff. I may not like it, but there’s nothing I can do about it because as AJM mentioned, I watch baseball during the season from the first pitch until the final out of the World Series. I can complain all I want, but the networks know that in the end, I’ll still watch.
Defending Big D | TheStarsFans | But a Hawks fan since 1989
by Brandon Bibb on Aug 1, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Ballpark Experience
Season ticket holder here.
There is very little of what Knox does that has anything to do with the ballpark experience.
At the ballpark this week, I saw a great video before the team took the field on the big screen. There was an outstanding video of great plays and a home run video last night that I think they just play on the Friday fireworks, I am sure Fox shows none of that.. The ballpark experience is more about the game than the TV broadcast in my opinion.
The Rangers ballpark experience has been one of the best in baseball for years and Fox misses that on a nightly basis.
I Don't mind the in the stands stuff so much, It's.....
Jim Knox I cannot stand one little bit, in fact when that robotic ass wipe comes on i hit the mute button, as for Tom and Josh well i like having Homers as the play by play guys, thats the way they should be, why would you want something like ESPN crews doing every game, JOE MORGAN for 160 games, no thanks!!!
Larry Parrish Was Da Man!
TV has a job...
Any broadcast has an obligation to sponsors, etc. to gain as broad of an audience as possible. The interview in the stands actually have two purposes. First… Fan of the Game, is to draw fans to the ballpark. The other, Community Corner, which is for public service announcement purposes. I think some of the interviews they had this weekend with Rangers legends (Ferguson Jenkins, etc…) were excellent for all fans…
You also have to remember that the announcers, as in any other local broadcast of a major sport, is hired by the Rangers and not the contracted network. The Mavs also pay their local announcers as well…The Rangers control the broadcast and pay the announcers, so you can’t blame Fox. Now, you can blame Fox on the National broadcast with Buck and McCarver…
does anyone else think
evan grant would be a good regular pre-game host? he’s a little goofy and i dont always agree with him, but his analysis does a much better job of approximating the type that i think most LSBers enjoy than the busby/mcclemore types, who tend to fit into the ‘fluff model’. he’s just more articulate and interesting to listen to.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Aug 1, 2009 6:49 PM CDT reply actions
knox/grieve/lewen
I reside in Houston and have to deal with the Astros games/team, broadcast team and all the other bs and occasionaly have the opportunity to catch a Rangers game when the local FSSW afiliate will allow it (please note that all of about one Rangers spring training game was televised by Houston FSSW, and others were pre-empted by other bs programs, one of which was the ACC womens basketball tournament!!!!). QUIT YOUR CRYING!! is all I can say. Also, I travel quite a bit and have the opportunity to hear other teams anouncers, are you kidding? the fluff from Knox and company is welcome compared to others. The Astros broacast team beat you to death with the players knicknames (big puma, migi, el cabieou sp???, sorry I don’t know spanish). They are about as engaging as two rocks, know/comment very little about the opposing team on the field, struggle to pronounce players names correctly and continuously comment on the perceived positive aspects of the “hometown team” (of which there are few). Have you had the opportunity to experience the White Sox announcers. The one DBag’s signature line of “HE GONE” whenever an opposing player strikes out is beyond reproach. Yes it is irritating when Knox is blathering away to a bunch of highschool kids, someones mother/father or a senior citizen, just deal with it. As far as Grieve/Josh L., hands down (from what I have seen from others, and granted I am a Rangers Fan) they do a great job. They can speak to (and have knowledge of) the opposing teams players, management, etc. Lewen’s quircky “crap” is welcome entertainment and I feel that Grieve feeds off of it. JUST BE GLAD YOU CAN WATCH THE GAMES AND TURN DOW THE VOLUME IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER.
by rangersfaninhouston on Aug 2, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions
Angels
Go Bees and go halos! where bees become angels.
Go Mariner!
The Texas Rangers led by Chuck Norris are about to go into their yearly dive! i am surprised that they have taken so long. congrats Rangers 2nd place, the highest you’ve ever finished.
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