Kidd resigns with Mavericks... Mavs probably going to snag Marion...
by miles on Jul 6, 2009 10:17 PM CDT
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Well its official, Jason Kidd has resigned with the Mavs in a 3 year deal...
In other news, it is said that Marion is likely to end up in Dallas from Toronto that would include Stackhouse in the deal going to Toronto... Marion is a beast, bring him in here...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4310011
I feel like this helps us compete against the Lakers... And if we can get a shooting guard in here, we will be a legitimate contender. Remember, Shan Foster is on the Mavericks Summer league team... Remember that name.
A lineup that includes Kidd, Dirk and Marion is called a 3 headed monster....
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A lineup that includes Kidd, Dirk and Marion (circa 2003) is called a 3 headed monster….
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
A lineup that includes Kidd (1999-2007), Dirk and Marion (circa 2003) is called a 3 headed monster….
you think
kidd is as good now as he was in 03?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
Only in the same way
Ramon Nivar is a beast.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Depends on which Marion you're getting..
But it’s probably as good a player as they’re really gonna get with that Stackhouse chip…
Marion would definitely signal a move back to a more wide-open, fast paced offense… Gortat can get up and down the court with those guys…
I like that they’d still have the Dampier chip at their disposal during the season…
x
Marion would definitely signal a move back to a more wide-open, fast paced offense
Except Marion and Gortat can man up defensively, which makes this potential version of the running game much more effective than 5-6 years ago.
Marion is older, sure, but like you said, it’s probably the best you could hope for with Stack.
I’d be satisfied.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Completely agree...
Especially if you have Josh Howard healthy, that’s a pretty good defensive team with Howard and Marion on the perimeter and Gortat roaming around the rim…
Still want them to re-sign Bass, though I’m not sure how Marion would impact his potential role..
im guessing he's gone
sounds like he’s out regardless, but marion would probably back up the 3 and 4
go here to view my blog: http://dirtfromd.blogspot.com
by studcrackers on Jul 7, 2009 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
how about Mike Iuzzolino?
and the fake Oliver Miller
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
It's
The renunciation of his rights that’s the stickler here. The third team involved will likely supply them a draft pick/young player of some kind to offset the 2 million dollar difference.
Renunciation = nothing; trading = something for almost nothing.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought they had to do the renunciation thing
to be able to sign Hedo?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 6, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
They could try to do this before they actually sign Hedo.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I was just under the impression
that to be able to afford Hedo, they had to renounce their rights to Marion and one other player. So, if that’s true, they wouldn’t be able to trade them for something else that counts against the cap because it would put them over…right? I dunno I confused myself again.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 6, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah it is that convoluted
not gonna happen
Toronto
They get Stacks contract and then turn right around and flip it to Orlando in a sign and trade for Hedo I think is whats gonna happen
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So what happens to Josh Howard?
Put him at shooting guard?
G Kidd, Barea
G Howard, Terry, Ross
F Marion
F Nowitzki, Bass
C Gortat, Hollins
"Being successful in life isn't about how smart you are or how hard you try, its how big of an ego you have." - Miles
If we keep Bass
I’m betting we keep Damp around for awhile.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep him into the season...
And see what you really have in Gortat before trading Damp mid-season to a team looking for a salary dump…
Seems like a good course of action to take, assuming that’s the plan…
Yeah
Plus having Hollins as the only other true center is disconcerting, to say the least.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
They're saying Frye is gonna sign for the veterans minimum
Wouldn’t mind doing that for another big body
Wha?
I’d be ecstatic to get him for the minimum.
Soft, but that price would be too good to pass up.
by brettgardner on Jul 6, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the team
is ready to part ways with Howard this offseason. I have been touting a Rip/Prince for Howard/Damp deal over at dallasbasketball.com this offseason. Of course that seemed like a better fit before this Marion talk started, and that would give us a pretty old team with little payroll flexibility. Still, a seven man rotation that includes Gortat, Dirk, Marion, Rip and Kidd with Jet and Prince off the bench is a pretty savvy team.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
Are they gonna get Avery?
And does he wanna deal w/ Howard anymore?
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
yeah
that was also before the Avery stuff solidified. They may be more interested in Jet if Avery lands there, and I am hesitant to include him in such a deal.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
They're (ticker) saying
the Avery negotiations are in the ditch now, with years apparently being the impasse.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
via rotoworld:
The Pistons have decided not to hire Avery Johnson as their next head coach, team president Joe Dumars announced on Tuesday.
“Where we are right now as a team is kind of like where we were at the start of the Rick Carlisle era,” Dumars said. “And a $4 to $5 million (a year) coach is not what we need right now.” As expected, the search will now focus on Cavaliers assistant John Kuester and Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau, neither of whom have NBA head coaching experience.
I love
That Avery thinks he’s so valuable.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
he needs to remember
that he was fired after taking one of the highest payroll teams to a 1st round loss at the hands of an 8 seed.
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
Avery was the new Buck
when Buck was still here.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if Dampier is valuable
because he got the Mavs to the finals, I suppose Avery is too.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
A decent Center got the Mavs to the finals.
That’s what they needed, defense and rebounding from the Center position and Damp provided that.
Which is why I want Tyson Chandler
Apparantly the Suns can have him anytime they want for Ben Wallace, which is so gay.
He didn't get them to the finals
Diop was the key center in the Spurs series, and neither of them played a major role int he Suns series. But if Dampier was the only primary center on the roster, they would not have beaten the Spurs.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
And
If Diop was the only primary center on the roster, they ALSO would not have beaten the Spurs.
Someone is remembering Dip’s five minutes of fame overly fondly.
What you're saying suggests that
Diop’s and Dampier’s contributions in that Spurs series were equivalent. They weren’t.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
You are correct...
..Damp contributed more.
Heck he played 50% more minutes than Diop played in that series. Damp was far more valuable to the Mavs than Diop during their Finals run, but Diop was also important.
Again, you’re remember Diop’s five minutes of fame and misremembering the rest of the series. In fact the following series against Phoenix that you’ve been discounting was the series where Diop provided far, far more value than Damp.
Meh, Diop's defense was underrated.
Not sure exactly how you can quantify it.
I tried per 48 minutes but that was met with scorn.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 8, 2009 5:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree that they needed two big bodies like that
and they had zero before obtaining them. But comparing every little piece that was needed with an MVP caliber player (fine, an all-star caliber player, even) doesn’t represent a fair comparison to me. They needed Dirk and Darrell Armstrong to make it past the Rockets. Does that mean that you wouldn’t take back some previous star because Armstrong was an element that they needed to make it a round deep in the playoffs one year?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Your argument makes sense
The problem is Damp was not some bit role player on that team. He wasn’t a star, but he was a very important part of the equation.
I wonder if the Blazers are gonna end up showing interesting in Josh Howard
They definitely want to upgrade their SF position.
I like this
Whether they’re going to keep Marion or flip him for a different wing, he gives us an asset we didn’t have with Stackhouse.
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
miles
i hope this is a joke
otherwise, you are an idiot
Thats nice back to back fanposts Miles
and nice Indians t-shirt.
the preceding post was a great success.
as long as its not the milton bradley jersey
hes all good heh
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
I thought
Kidd was going to the Knicks.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
exactly
the same douche who guaranteed Kidd was going to the Knicks is not guaranteeing Marion comes to the Mavs. And before you resort to your little bit, I would kick your ass Miles…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
"you're fuckin out" (Kenny Powers)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jul 7, 2009 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't you know who he is?
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
Yeah,
it kind of is.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Prospect polls
are srs bzness
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
You get your yucks off stoners and Miles, what more can be said?
by oc on Jul 7, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Miles posts
much less pathetic than your ongoing attempts to be board cop.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Miles
you should be sorry for being such a p whipped douchebag who lets his gf drag him around by the balls and makes him wear Indian’s shirts…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
"you're fuckin out" (Kenny Powers)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jul 7, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
On a nerdy, English major note...
…can we please start using re-sign instead of resign, since those two words have nearly opposite meanings? (They’re called Janus words.)
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
Now, the reason
the Mavs never extended Nash was because he was too old to extend, right?
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
nash used to have back problems
i remember him fucking having back problems.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
plus nash's style of play is much more rough
than kidds (at least from what i remember)
nash: 6’3" 178
kidd: 6’4" 210
big difference
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
And they were better off with Erick Dampier than Nash
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 7, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Where have you been? :)
I’m in that boat too, btw.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
Wow, I strenuously disagree with that view.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a big fan of having two Brett's.
Either #2 needs to go back to being Z, or we’re going to need some sort of internet cage fight.
What level is that?
The losing to an aged Shaq level or the losing to the Warriors in a 1/8 matchup level? Diop got them past the Spurs, and none of their centers contributed much in beating Phoenix.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see how broken Steve Nash would have done anything more.
You can disagree with acquiring Damp, but to argue that we should have re-signed Nash makes zero sense to me.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
How in the world is that?
Nash was, like, the MVP of the league during the first few years of that, when Dallas was trying to win it. This is homer bias at its finest. He wasn’t broken.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Homer bias?
Come on.
He was and is broken. Fizzled away as the seasons progressed. And we both know he didn’t deserve that second MVP.
He was a fine player those first two seasons, but he wasn’t any better than he was here, and giving him a large chunk of money to do what he has always done would have made zero sense to me.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
And you are using revisionist history.
The Nash the left here was a fringe-all star on his way down. He was breaking down and had just gotten utterly humiliated by Bibby in the playoffs.
The Nash that showed up in Phoenix had a fresh commitment to basketball due to the negotiations (his own words) and was put in the best possible system for him to succeed. He won two completely undeserved MVP as well.
Since that system has gone away, Nash has gone back to being a fringe-all star player.
And the idea that Damp didn’t contribute during their Finals run is ridiculous. The two headed defensive center tandem was one of the keys to the team.
Not to mention
He won his MVPs largely because he played in a system that was perfect for the then-new rules limiting defensive contact on the perimeter. It’s likely had Dallas kept Nash that he never has a season close to what he did in PHX under coach three first names.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 3:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Forget the MVPs
The notion that Terry is a superior defender to Nash is laughable.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Well you brought up his MVPs, not me
and I don’t see where I said anything about defense?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
When I said MVP, it’s to frame what caliber of player he was at that time. Arguing that he didn’t deserve the MVP or saying that he wouldn’t have been quite as good in Dallas (both of which are true imo) misses the point that i was trying to make, which was simply that he was a fantastic player. Debating hether or not he was a super-duper fantastic player or just simply a fantastic player isn’t the point, which is why I say forget the MVP.
As for defense it’s one of your two sentence:
He won his MVPs largely because he played in a system that was perfect for the then-new rules limiting defensive contact on the perimeter.
Your insinuation is that his defense would have been exposed in Dallas by comparison, and considering that Terry took over his role here, I have to take that to mean that you think that he would have been either worse than Terry defensively or substantially worse than Terry offensively.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
if by that quote you mean that the new rules allowed him to do things offensively, Dallas did many of those same things. We were high pick and roll/pop crazy with Avery.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
But you cannot sit there and tell me that the Mavs and Suns offenses were similar. The Mavs didn’t play the 6 seconds or less offense that the Suns did — Nash thrives in that.
I don’t get why you’re being so obtuse about this.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh brother
Nash was an excellent player. To call me obtuse for maintaining that is ridiculous. Nash was an excellent offensive player in Dallas.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
You and aren't on the same page
I’ll just leave it there
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually no that's not what I was saying at all
Your insinuation is that his defense would have been exposed in Dallas by comparison, and considering that Terry took over his role here, I have to take that to mean that you think that he would have been either worse than Terry defensively or substantially worse than Terry offensively.
you completely misunderstood me.
Nash won his MVPs because of his offensive game. His offensive game was so successful because they happened to change the rules limiting contact on the perimeter during the offseason that he signed with PHX.
What I was saying had absolutely nothing to do with Nash’s or Terry’s defense.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You apparently didn't read the next post
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I read it
and I responded to it.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm surprised that it needed to be said aloud.
One-way players, dominant as they may be, are one-way players.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 8, 2009 5:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Did the Mavs make it to the finals with Nash or Darrell Armstrong?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
I must not be clear from what those guys were saying the other day
because the answer to how Dampier’s contract goes away is that it was an unreachable trigger. If that’s the case, bird rights or no, why wouldn’t the contract go away by next offseason? I take it that there is something funky in the language that provides for a window where he could be traded before his contract vanishes?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
No it's just a non-guaranteed contract
meaning they could cut him at any time. Mid season. 3/4 of the way, or before the season.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
There is a clause in the NBA where you can have a guy on a 13 million dollar contract
where you can cut him at any point? I can’t imagine that.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
So on a timeline
May of 2010 (say their season is over): have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
June 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
July 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
Aug 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
Sept 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
Oct 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him another dollar
Nov 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him beyond what they’ve paid
Dec 2010: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him beyond what they’ve paid
Jan 2011: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him beyond what they’ve paid
Feb 2011: have his $13M contract on their payroll but could cut him and not owe him beyond what they’ve paid
??
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
No
I think there’s a certain amount guaranteed which they would have to pay regardless. I seem to remember that it was a relatively small number, thus making the contract lucrative.
That's not the point
plug that number in for the nothing part. What I’ve been asking about for several posts is what the reality of that is, whether there is a window or something.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
The trigger
which has something to do with an All Star game and minutes played or something…would just cause the final year to become guaranteed. It’s not like an option year where you either get it or you don’t.
I used to shoot baskets
But that doesn't happen during the offseason?
It just stays unguaranteed all year? Even the NFL has a date when veteran contracts become guaranteed.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
We don't really know.
Stack’s contract this year is only partially guranteed, but there is a drop date. The Mavs, or whatever teams he’s on, has to waive him by August 10th or the contract will vest and be fully guranteed. Odds are Damp’s contract will work the same way (except his is completely unguranteed), meaning the Mavs will have most of the offseason to trade an immediate expring contract, just as they’re trying to do with Stack now.
Okay that's what I'm getting at, thanks
I guess the only thing that surprises me about that is that the option to use a nonguaranteed contract would be so late in the offseason. That seems very unfavorable to the player, and therefore would be something that they would either not allow to into the CBA or not negotiate into the specific contract. But more power to the Mavs if they really are the only ones have have figured out or managed to utilize so effectively this basic concept.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, in the article, it mentions that the Spurs had the same type of contracts
with Oberto and Bowen, whom they traded for Jefferson.
See, the difference here
is when the Spurs did that deal. The timing is primarily what I am questioning. The notion that the Nets, for example, could deal or cut Oberto next January, for example, and the money immediately or retroactively disappear. That would be very unusual for the NBA’s system.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt they could.
I’m sure there was a drop dead date on the contract. But it seems to be part of the negotiation as to when it is.
I was probably wrong above
There is probably some date that his contract becomes guaranteed. But, they could trade him to another team who could cut him before that date, or they could cut him themselves. But, from what I understand, the contract is not-guaranteed at all — meaning whoever cuts him before the magical date saves 100% of his contract.
From the D. Lord article….
But Erick Dampier’s contract – The DUST Chip — simply erases all those problems for Dallas.
By using it for the salary match, the Mavs will not gut their team, because his “instant expiring” contract can trade-match a salary up to $16.4475M. One player and done. In addition, the old team merely waives Dampier once the trade is done and ends up with $0 added to their payroll
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually
In the latest article up at DB.com, Fish says directly that Damp’s contract has no deadline for gurantee.
I thought DLord said that in an article a few months ago, but I wasn’t sure.
That seems really hard to believe
Not that the NBA’s salary cap makes any logical sense in many areas.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see what's difficult to believe
I don’t think there’s any rule that says all contracts have to be at least partially guaranteed.
Some guys sign contracts that aren’t guaranteed until the 10th game of the season or whatever. Some guys sign NBA deals but are cut in training camp. This just happens to be for a ton more money.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not just a ton more money
It’s a deal negotiated by someone who would seem to me to have had a strong enough bargaining position to not be cornered like that.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
are you referring to Damp?
It’s a deal negotiated by someone who would seem to me to have had a strong enough bargaining position to not be cornered like that.
If so, he got a life changing, career contract out of it. I wouldn’t call that being cornered.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
See my response just below, but
just because he got a great deal didn’t mean that he had to agree to put himself in such a bad position in the last year. If there were a date early in the offseason, even, the team would have the opportunity to keep him or allow him to go get a decent contract. Particularly because the salary is so high, he’s put himself in a very poor position for his 2011 contract, if all of this is true and he can be dumped in September of next year with virtually no consequences and no additional payment to him. So much so that I’m still skeptical that a detail is not being glazed over.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the other 5 years of the deal
were so huge for him, and beyond what they thought they could get anywhere else that he jumped at it, even though the last year wasn’t guaranteed.
I dunno, but there were whispers about this the last couple of years — but the media (Sefko is where the original confirmation came form that I saw a year or so ago) has been pretty much in agreement on this. Btw, (you might not believe this) but, that question in that Q&A came from me — I’ve been wondering about this for quite a while after reading something about it on mavsmoneyball.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
All he had to do was make 2 all-star games
Seems like if the person negotiating a 70 million dollar contract wouldn’t be in a position to say that is unlikely..
Why?
They gave him a huge, long term deal. They gave him incentives to make the contract guranteed that he clearly thought he would reach.
It’s not like they signed him to a three year deal and left the final year fully non-guranteed.
I see your point but I think you’re off base being so surpised about it in this instance.
And almost all other contracts do have the drop dead date you’re looking for, because they are team options, not incentive clauses.
I'm not even sure that was it
They gave him incentives to make the contract guranteed that he clearly thought he would reach.
I think he knew he was getting a ton of cash either way and if he reached those incentives then it was a bonus. But, of course I’m just guessing there.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If I'm Dampier's agent
the only thing that I do differently is that I don’t allow them to go deep into the offseason, and certainly not into the season, with the ability to drop my guy for nothing. Sure, give them the option, but they need to decide before July 1, when teams are handing out midlevels, etc. Unless, as said above, Dampier and his agent were so naive as to think that they were going to make those incentives, I’m pretty much guaranteeing him a veteran minimum type of deal if Dallas doesn’t pick up the option. And a good agent would never assume that Dallas would pick up that option, once it becomes non-guaranteed.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the missing link
the only thing that I do differently is that I don’t allow them to go deep into the offseason, and certainly not into the season, with the ability to drop my guy for nothing.
is that there has to be SOME sort of trigger date. We just don’t know.
Even if they keep him through the offseason next year, at the very least he could be trade deadline salary relief for some team.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Here you go:
In addition, on January 10 the base salary in all contracts becomes guaranteed for the remainder of that season (except for one case — see question 59). A player must clear waivers by this date, so teams will waive players a couple days before in order to have them off their rosters before January 10. Also, if a player is waived prior to January 10 but is injured as a direct result of playing basketball with his team, then his salary is guaranteed until he is ready to play again or until the end of the season, whichever comes first.
The NBA actually has very, very few regulations on the idea of guranteed contracts. It’s just the culture of the NBA to give guranteed contracts, not the law.
Nah
I'm Matt mutha-effing Bush, bitches, and mutha-eff East County.
"I'm as passionate and knowlegeable as any fan out there." Josey Wales
/MikeE!
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 8, 2009 5:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Intriguing offseason
Mavs appear to be in better shape to get some good shit done than most teams. Hope this Marion deal works. Hope Gortat’s deal doesn’t get matched by Orlando.
Then the Mavs are significantly upgraded with lots of avenues for improvement using Howard and Damp’s expiring 20MM+ in non-guaranteed deals over the next 9 months.
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
No thanks.
Miles would be fine with me.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was sort of kidding
I was really intrigued by Almond coming out of college, and he performed really well in the d-league, but it has yet to translate to the NBA.
I’d be thrilled to get Miles.
What would you think of
Howard and Damp
for AK47, Miles, and filler (Ronnie Price, I guess)?
Cuts money for them, gives two very good players (not superstars) to us.
by brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
how about boozer
miles and filler for stack + howard/damp depending on whether or not they want a player or just the financial relief. They want to lock up millsap long term and didnt want both okur and boozer to re-up with them. That way you can try and work in boozer with dirk or you get a valuable trade chip, much like the proposed marion deal.
if that doesnt work swap boozer out with okur and add maybe maynor and/or a future pick, either way they arent going to be a lottery team as long as deron williams is on that team.
Charter member of the Dutch bandwagon
x
If you do something like that with the jazz, you have to get the knicks 2010 unprotected pick in exchange for getting them out from under AK47’s contract.
Damp/Howard/Wright for AK47/Brewer/Kosta Koufos/Korver/NY’s pick
Mavs get an athletic wing defender in Brewer, a 3pt guy in Korver, depth at center in Koufos and the magic bean in NY’s pick.
Jazz get a center they need in Damp, a better SF in Howard, some depth with Wright, and most important HUGE salary relief they need for milsap, deron, and 2010 FA.
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think
You’re overvaluing the relief.
I don’t see why they’d give away two talented young players AND a 1st for that.
maybe
Brewer, Korver, and Koufos are prob too much along with the #1. But this isn’t like the McGrady deal they turned down…they are getting an all star caliber SF and a capable center while also getting the relief they need.
There is some deal there with them needing relief but wanting players to compete with in 2009-10 and the mavs can give them that
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The Jazz should just trade Boozer to Portland for Aldridge
Since the Blazers are under the cap, the salaries don’t have to match.
why
Why does portland do that?
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
sbnation has now ruined my life
By making mobile commenting available. I’m going to have to downgrade my phone to get any work done.
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure they do, if they then sign Boozer to an extension.
Then Utah can flip Aldridge to OKC for Jeff Green.
Not a Boozer at the top of his game.
I love Aldridge as much as anybody, but I think Boozer gives the Blazers a better chance at competing with the Lakers for the next couple of years.
also the mavs still have the stack chip
PG-Kidd, Barea, Beaubois
SG-Brewer, Terry, Carroll, Foster
SF-AK47, Korver, George, Green, Williams
PF-Dirk, Bass??, Singleton, Nivins
C-Gortat, Koufos, Hollins
Use the stack chip to get another big or wing player who can create his own shot or young PG.
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
take brewer out
And use the stack chip to get a SG. Utah considered taking a lame McGrady to get out from Kirilenkos deal. But, they want the relief AND to compete this year. Howard and Damp allow them to do both.
I used to shoot baskets
by SaltyDawg on Jul 7, 2009 1:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I called the Marion thing,,,,
on Miles last jason Kidd thread.
by death of the cool on Jul 7, 2009 1:17 PM CDT reply actions
Poor Mavs
Wow, grasping at straws here. Kidd for three years? Ouch. Marion would be good, but you already have a better version of him, Josh Howard.
Resign vs. Re-sign
This might be rather nit-picky, but does anyone else have problems when one of these word is substituted for the other word?
Perhaps, the problem is that we have two words which mean nearly opposite things through the dropping of one symbol spells the same word.
I dunno. It’s probably just me.
R
hmm
flammable means the same is inflammable right?
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
Go and read David Lord's latest over at DB.com
If you like dreaming big and like the Mavs, this article will give you goose bumps.
Basically the way Damp’s contract is structured means the Mavs can over the biggest FA deal via S&T in the entire NBA in the summer of 2010 when LeBron, Wade, Bosh, etc. are FAs.
In other words, if one of these guys decides to bolt from his current team, NO ONE else can offer as much as the Mavs by using what DLord has so eloquently termed…the DUST chip
I used to shoot baskets
That's one way to look at it
Another is that they don’t have to use Damp to get Wade or Lebron who could be pipe dreams. Damp could net them any number of uber talented guys available next summer.
But, if the right deal comes along, the Mavs should absolutely take it…you are just wagering that the player you get now is better than the player the other team gets in summer of 2010
I used to shoot baskets
Joe Johnson is really the only other guy next year that i'd be really interested in, who would also be a match for our needs.
I’m surprised we haven’t heard any Gilbert Arenas trade rumors this offseason, thus far, because I’d be interested in maybe using Stack and Damp on that.
How much would JJ
cost? 15mil a year?
Right now he’s probably my favorite FA out of that 2010 class, a SG who can create his own shot and score from anywhere on the court, and probably going to be underrated with all those other big names.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
Older than the rest
But not a bad name to keep in mind, though he does absolutely dominate the ball.
Some options
Wade or LeBron: hey, it could happen
Bosh: He IS leaving Toronto…he IS from Dallas, yes he is a “4” like Dirk, but if you can get him, you get him
Johnson: My personal fave too, and feasible
Paul Pierce: He has an ETO which he will probably exercise and Allen is a FA too and Rondo will be a RFA
Kobe: He has a player option…but he isn’t going anywhere
Rudy Gay: will be RFA, nice wing player
Redd: Has an ETO, but if he can’t get healthy, he might play out his contract
Aldridge and Roy: Both RFAs
Nash: just kidding
Amare: ETO
Manu: I just threw up in mouth a lil
I used to shoot baskets
Rudy Gay, i would love
Joe as well. Kobe has agreed to an extension already. Roy and LeBron aren’t going anywhere. If Wade is going, it’s to the Northeast or Chicago. The rest are too old or don’t really fit.
You know
I bet they’d let him go for Damp and change.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been thinking Joe Johnson for a while.
I have to think he’d be a perfect complement to Dirk.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 8, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
how many other teams
have players with contracts like damp?
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
NONE
The biggest other contracts structured like Damps are in the $3-5 million range.
I used to shoot baskets
pulled this from the Mavs ESPN board
which probably came from DB.com
It appears the way Damp’s deal is structured is actually part of an organizational philosphy on Dallas’ part to try and beat the salary cap when it comes to getting players to Dallas.
-This summer, the Mavs have Jerry Stackhouse as a $7.25 million trade chip with a non guaranteed salary and a $2 million buyout.
-Next summer, the Mavs have Erick Dampier as a $13 million trade chip with a non guaranteed salary.
-The summer of 2011, the Mavs have Jason Terry as a $10.6 million trade chip with a non guaranteed salary
-The Mavs are also responsible for signing Greg Buckner (now with Memphis) to his current deal which has non guaranteed figures of $4 million in this summer and the next.
All of these guys can be used in sign and trades or to acquire a player with a multi year big contract with the team receiving them able to immediately waive them. In essence they are immediate expirings. And if expiring contracts are like gold in the NBA trade market…then these contracts are like a golden barrell of oil.
I used to shoot baskets
Yeah it's like the know they had to go over the cap
and those were their get-out-of-jail free cards
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You can always count on David Lord and Mike Fisher
to get people hopeful over a pipe dream.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you saying their premise
is not legit?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Weird.
They had the “pipedream” of a Stack/Marion/3rd team well before the story broke that that exact scenario was being seriously discussed. You may say it’s not always hard to predict things like that, and you may be right, but it rather proves the point that they’re not always in the business of blowing smoke.
I think those guys do a pretty good job
of separating the highly unlikely from the entirely plausible. Now, the message boards get a little wild with crazy ideas…but that’s what message boards are for.
I used to shoot baskets
How long have you been reading them?
I’ve been reading it since Fisher started it. It is well known as comically optimistic.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Not regularly until this year
But from the stories I’ve read, I always see a distinction made between pipe dreams and realistic scenarios.
If they have it archived far back enough
check out how the last two offseasons had lots of realistic scenarios that shouldn’t seem so realistic to a critical eye, especially in retrospect. But whatever, my comment was unnecessary.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Fisher’s take on the Mavs has never been much better than his posters; anyone defending him has little credibility unless they are trying to play up to the 13yo fantasy crowd.
I guess most of my opinion comes from Lord's stuff
He seems to always be one step ahead of the MSM with trade targets and especially with the CBA and salary structure
I used to shoot baskets
LeBron...pipe dream
Wade, Johnson, Bosh….quite possible with the state of their teams and the asset the Damp contract is
I used to shoot baskets
if they sign wade
i will never watch another mavs game
i will never attend another mavs game
and hes on a short list for players i could never support
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 8, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate everything about the 2006 Finals
But the blame there goes on David Stern and his officials. Yes, Wade flailed like crazy and threw himself into people. But, he was getting those calls…so why not keep doing it and make a living at the free throw line to get yourself a ring.
His wheelchair show was a joke too.
But, Wade is one of the best players in the game…is a decent enough human being…doesn’t have a mile long rap sheet….and could be available to the Mavs.
I would much rather have LeBron (obviously) or Johnson…because I harbor some ill will toward Wade too. But I have let that go and realized most of the blame for 2006 goes on Avery, the team, the officials…and, most of all….David Stern for turning NBA officiating into a joke by turning his superstars into free throw whores.
I used to shoot baskets
Yeah I was bitter about that crap for a long time
but I’d take wade in a heartbeat — can’t beat ’em, join ’em…
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Why are the bets Ranger minds...
..some of the snarkiest, most bitter Mav’s fans?
Do you realize how much we all hate people that have this attitude about the Rangers?
Beyond the snarkiness…you’re somewhat right. Fish is abosolutely an organizational parrot that loves to stir up the masses with optimisim.
DLord, on the other hand, has as good a grasp on the NBA CBA as any write anywhere, and generally lays out good stuff.
I'm typically pretty pessimistic regarding the Mavs as well
It’s just pretty obvious, that as of right now, the 2 organizations are headed in different directions.
I would agree with that regarding Fisher vs Lord
And I think that you are mistaking me for some others when it comes to the Mavs. I’m snarky and bitter about the NBA as an entity, but not the Mavs. I think that the Devin Harris deal was just awful, and Avery drove me crazy in the same manner that Showalter did (plus what I saw as limited in-game coaching ability), but other than that, I can’t really think of anything that I’m bitter about. I hated to see Nash leave, and I wish he hadn’t, but I’m not bitter about it. Even if Cuban had offered what Nash was asking for, he still may well have gone to Phoenix. He and his agent seemed a little predisposed in that direction. I’m not anti-Cuban per se, and I’m definitely not anti-Donnie or anti-Carlisle or anything like that. I just also wasn’t anti-Nellie.
But from what I can tell, those who are disagreeing with me in this thread seem to be universally pr-what is current Mavs and anti-what is not. That sounds pretty homeristic to me, just as someone trying to defend the John Danks or Adrian Gonzalez deals. Just because we admit that a certain leadership group may have made a mistake doesn’t mean that they are complete fools with no potential to do a great job overall.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
With me
But from what I can tell, those who are disagreeing with me in this thread seem to be universally pr-what is current Mavs and anti-what is not.
That’s certainly not the case, FWIW. They’ve made their share of mistakes — I hated seeing Nash go as well.
I just don’t agree that everything is so doom and gloom like so many say.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You hated to see Nash go?
Yet you call me obtuse for maintaining that Nash was an excellent offensive player?
I just don’t agree that everything is so doom and gloom like so many say.
What does that have to do with the current discussion? Seems like you’re defensive about things that aren’t even being attacked. I’m not attacking the Mavs in any fashion here.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I called you obtuse
For not seeing what is pretty obvious — Nash flourished in a way that wasn’t likely to have happened here in Dallas due to a lucky set of circumstances (the coach’s system and the rule changes). You brought up pick-and-rolls as if it was proof that what they were running in PHX wasn’t that different from Dallas — which is just completely false.
That doesn’t mean he ISN’T a great offensive player — it just means I think it was perfect storm for him in PHX and I don’t think he would’ve been as successful here.
But, that is all in hindsight. I don’t see why it’s hard for me to have hated seeing Nash go when he left at the time. I have some autographed stuff of his — he was my favorite player. But, I don’t think letting him go was this big mistake by the Mavs (I don’t mean that you in particular said that).
What does that have to do with the current discussion? Seems like you’re defensive about things that aren’t even being attacked. I’m not attacking the Mavs in any fashion here.
Forgive me I suppose — you’ve been very skeptical about just about everything in this sub-thread. I took that to mean you didn’t have a very optimistic view of what was going on, hence “doom and gloom.” Whatever, it’s not a big deal, it was just a throw-away comment.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
This isn't the first time we've had this sort of discussion
You are needlessly defensive about the Mavs. It is really, really silly and insulting to suggest that someone doesn’t understand that Phoenix was an especially beneficial offense for Nash. I’m not sure what the point of having a discussion is when you assume, when I say that he was effective in the Dallas offense as well, that I am a fucking idiot who doesn’t know anything about D’Antoni’s offensive scheme.
To draw a parallel, this is like you saying that Mark Teixeira would have still performed well in Arlington this year, and me calling you incredibly obtuse for not understanding that New Yankees Stadium is ideal for his talent. Would you think that it’s worth continuing a conversation with me?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I never said that
that I am a fucking idiot
I apologize for calling you obtuse – apparently I struck a nerve. Chill out.
I really don’t think I’m defensive about the Mavs. This all started because I think the effect of Nash’s departure has been greatly overstated (not that he isn’t a good player). I also happen to believe the DB.com reports that the Damp asset is huge. If that makes me a massive homer, then fine, whatever I’m not gonna get pissy at you anymore.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I'm not going to throw you in the hole for a month
but people tend to not like being called obtuse.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
FWIW
if by that quote you mean that the new rules allowed him to do things offensively, Dallas did many of those same things. We were high pick and roll/pop crazy with Avery.
That is the statement that brought out “obtuse” from me. It seemed like you were intentionally ignoring the type offense the Suns ran and focused on the pick-and-roll element to prove a point. That seemed obtuse to me, but apparently I was WAY off base. Sorry for reading too much into that.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason I was glazing over it
was that I’d already tried to redirect the discussion from whether Nash was the best player in the league in 2005 to what I think is a pretty undeniable fact that he was a really good offensive player. I was trying to respond without getting drug back into the muck of whether he was supremely awesome. I don’t know what other debates tend to go on in regard to this, but it seems like kind of a given that the Phoenix system (and his supporting cast) was ideal for him and his strengths and weaknesses. It’s just not he couldn’t have executed Dallas’ system or something, and as I stated multiple times before that, that was all I was saying. The mismatch I could see was he was basically overqualified, given that Avery wanted to be the de facto PG.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
these damn internets lead to so many misunderstandings
The mismatch I could see was he was basically overqualified, given that Avery wanted to be the de facto PG.
I always thought it was purely because Cubes didn’t think he was worth the money. Avery had a lot to do with it I’m sure, but I thought the primary thing was the $$.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 7, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't speaking to their intent in not bringing him back
by Brett Perryman on Jul 8, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess we are having a hard time following each other on this subject
what were you speaking about?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Fair enough.
I suppose it just seems like the only time I see you participating in a Mavs discussion it’s to be on the negative side, but that could be my perception or maybe it’s only the negative things that get you fired up enough to talk about it.
I can't really address very well your perception of what I post about
But from what I can tell, you guys see folks like Adam and Cahill with their jaded views of the Mavs and Mark Cuban and assign them to me just because I didn’t like the Kidd deal and don’t think that Steve Nash was a pile of garbage. The one thing that I’ve always admitted to being borderline irrationally negative about was Avery when it came to in-game and in-series coaching.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 7, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
That is the truth about Lord
How he is not working somewhere in an NBA front office is beyond me.
I used to shoot baskets
Mavs sign 1st round pick Beaubois
And he is actually playing in the NBA this year, not overseas. Maybe we strike gold.
his measurables sure are exciting
I’d settle for Parker’s penetrating ability with Barbosa’s shot and Rondo’s length/defense
Not aiming too high am I?
I used to shoot baskets
I'll be pleased
if he can provide the defense. Kidd can’t keep up w/ most of these guys. Still savvy and reads the lanes well, but I’d be happy to see him get some breathers against Parker, Paul, Roy..
"I saw your act, just didn't make it for me. Just a lot of fluff."
I'm not going to pretend like I have an advanced scouting report on the guy
But, from what I’ve seen and read he has a nice jumper which should be ahead of Devin’s when he showed up. On the flip side he isn’t the penetrator or finisher Devin was…but he clearly has the tools.
He does have an awkward shot that looks Barbosa-ish, but he can knock it down with range.
His biggest gift is his length and speed which could make him a stud defensively if he commits to it. 6’2" with a 6’10" wingspan and a 38" vertical should be able to play some lockdown defense
I used to shoot baskets
I want to see him play
before I make an assessment of his jumper. From what I’ve heard, it may have NBA range, but Youtube mixes aren’t going to do it for me.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
I think that is why the Mavs fill he can be a part of the NBA roster
His defense could really help them against some of the guards that have sliced and diced them since Devin left. Really, it’s a nice combo with Kidd for the big guards and RoBo to help with the quicks
I used to shoot baskets
Hmm
wait, does it mean that Shan Foster is now under the miles curse?
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
In other basketball news
Toronto is giving Bargnani a 5 year, $50 million extension.
Two years ago it would be laughable. Now, it could end up being a bargain. I was very impressed last season.
It will be interesting to see how that team unfolds over the next year
They have Calderon, Turkoglu and Bargnani. Will Bosh really want out because that is a nice collection of talent. Also, will the Raps look to maximize value with Bosh this season to fill the Center and SG void.
Spitballing: Bosh to GS for Biedrins and Jackson. Nellie gets his low post stud and Toronto rolls out a nifty starting 5 of
PG- Calderon
SG- Jackson
SF- Turkoglu
PF- Bargnani
C- Biedrins
I used to shoot baskets
Honestly
If I were Toronto, I’d be trying to move Bosh yesterday.
Interesting idea, but it just seems highly unlikely that they’d take on that many years/salary.
However, they’d also demand Belinelli and probably Wright.
Would Toronto settle for Lopez, Yi, Simmons and a first from NJ? Doubtful, I guess.
Belinelli was my first thought for them at 2
But, Biedrins is BYC so he makes it difficult to make a move without Toronto taking on another big salary like Jackson’s
I used to shoot baskets
It's good
But Golden State wants more. They can’t give away 3 guys who can start and only get one back, even if he is really, really good.
Mavs sign Quentin Ross
http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1816
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
via rotoworld.com
The Grizzlies are now involved in a potential trade that would send Shawn Marion to the Mavericks.
The Grizzlies would absorb Jerry Stackhouse’s $7.25 million contract and then buy him out for $2 million before the Aug. 10 deadline in Stackhouse’s contract. The deal is pretty far along, but it doesn’t sound likely to be finalized until Thursday, at the earliest.
Source: ESPN.com
Interesting.
Appears to be done, then.
So much for my hope for a young wing. I like Marion a lot, though.
is the last year non or partially guaranteed?
heard they might do that to make the contract look more like a win for marion and his agent while giving us that MUST chip in the 5th year.
Charter member of the Dutch bandwagon
I would think
that it is at least only partially guaranteed.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
i'm a little slow here
dallas sends stackhouse to memphis
memphis sends a draft pick to dallas?
toronto sends marion to dallas after signing him for $5 years 40M?
dallas sends $3million cash to toronto
does dallas not have to send more than just cash to toronto?
what draft pick does dallas get? or do they send that along with the cash?
The dance of the puppets
The rusted chains of prison moons
Are shattered by the sun.
I walk a road, horizons change
The tournaments begun.
i'm a little slow
dallas sends stackhouse to memphis
memphis sends a draft pick to dallas?
toronto sends marion to dallas after signing him for $5 years 40M?
dallas sends $3million cash to toronto
does dallas not have to send more than just cash to toronto?
what draft pick does dallas get? or do they send that along with the cash?
The dance of the puppets
The rusted chains of prison moons
Are shattered by the sun.
I walk a road, horizons change
The tournaments begun.
What is Memphis getting again?
Besides having to pay Stack 2 mil for nothing. I dont understand the incentive for them.
ESPN says
Marion and Humphries to Dallas
George and Wright to Toronto
Stackhouse and cash to Memphis
So basically Memphis is getting paid to facilitate the deal.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to figure out what exactly
Memphis gave up? It sounds to me like they are taking stack and his $2M buyout — but then cash is coming with him so that covers his buyout?
Sounds like they got cap relief and didn’t give up anything….
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
They didn't give up anything.
They’re under the cap so they don’t have to.
And they don’t really get cap relief. They just get cash and maybe a pick.
Ah, under the cap
that’s the piece I was missing. Gracias
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess it's worth
$1M for them to make a divisional opponent alot better, haha.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
that's cheaper than a late-first-rounder these days
Alma para conquistarte, corazón para quererte, y vida para vivirla junto a ti.
Well, that's what I figured
I couldn’t make much sense out of Aldridge’s piece, though
Humphries isn’t a bad pickup.
Toronto is still adding just over 3mm in salary, which doesn’t exactly make sense.
Yeah, Bass is expendable now
FWIW…
‘08-’09:
Humphries: 16.37 PER in 9 MPG
Bass: 16.49 PER in 19.4 MPG
The difference between the 2 probably isn’t huge. I’d rather have Bass just because I like him more, but I’m not gonna get worked up over a 15 MPG guy.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd prefer
to hang on to Bass and bury Humphries on the bench, because good players are good players, and I don’t know that the Howard + Marion experiment will last to the playoffs. And even if it does, this will probably be Howard’s last year with Dallas, period. And a front court with Gortat, Bass, Nowitzki and Marion has the potential to be a nice, athletic (relatively speaking) group.
But I know that’s greedy, and at some point a monetary decision has to be made.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 8, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The question
Is do you re-sign Singleton if you have Bass and Humphries?
Since the answer is probably no, is that an OK result?
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I would think so
For me, Bass is a much higher priority, just player vs player.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 9, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Of course— he’s a much better player than Singleton.
I guess the real question is do you think Bass will ever turn into a starter-type? Because I sure as hell don’t want to hand out anything approaching the MLE to a 25 year old who’s only going to play ~20 minutes.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he will
I think he has pretty much reached his ceiling. There is too much going on in his jumpshot for him to consistently shoot at a high percentage; he can’t, and I don’t think will ever, handle the basketball very well.
I think I agree.
If he were ever starting somewhere, I think his best day would be to average 12 and 7, which isn’t anything to laugh at by any means, but I’m not sure it’s going to light your pants on fire, either.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like
Kenny Thomas light.
After the show I want Greg Oden to tuck us both in and tell us stories about the old days. - Will Ferrell
Well, like I said
at some point you do have to make a monetary decision. But just in terms of the player, whether he’s what you would regard as a starter level player or not, he is a much better player than Singleton and Humphries. He is a quality rotation player who offers aggressive, physical play and athleticism along with some skill. The other two are short stint, energy players who don’t belong in a quality rotation.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 9, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Mmm
Well I agree that if Singleton is my primary backup, I’m hoping Dirk plays 48 minutes.
But it is a monetary decision, I think.
My only problem is that signing him might hinder the acquisition and development of a young 4. That’s, of course, based on the premise that Bass won’t turn into a potential Dirk replacement.
Woo!
Kanye, you want to be the voice of this generation? Get in line! It goes me, Obamagirl, the Freecreditreport.com guys, then It's a tie between you-and Crocs.
-Stephen Colbert
The deal per Bucher's twitter page
Marion/Humphries/Buckner to Dal. DGeorge/AWright to Tor. Stackhouse/Douby + cash to Mem. And Tor signs Turkoglu.
Trade for Ian Snell.
Yes
absolutely. I’ve always liked Buckner.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah according to db.com
it’s non-guaranteed this year for $4.27M
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Man
We have a glut still.
We still are probably going to re-sign Hollins, no? Singleton?
Some guys are gonna have to get the hell outta here.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
If we keep Damp
and with all the hoopla surrounding his expiring contract, it looks like we will, I think it’s makes a Hollins signing unlikely.
Does Howard get traded for a 2 though? They say the Mavs want him here, but I don’t see it.
Trade for Ian Snell.
Well
Would you trade Howard for CJ Miles, Harpring and a 1st?
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Gamble, I guess
You’d get the benefit of cap room and another young guy as fallback, at least.
I do, however, think Miles can turn into a 15-20ppg guy with the speed and length to play 2 at both ends.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't like his game or attitude.
Terrible handle, bad shot selection, overrated defense.
Dunno, I’m biased, the guy just bugs me.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
Me too.
Only relatively recently, though. Since the Finals, maybe.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Forgot to add,
I find his passing atrocious and lazy. It seems soft, indifferent, and at terrible receiving positions- often at the ankles.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
He's a knucklehead.
But I take my chances with him unless I can get a 2 back. Don’t see a match here(Howard and Shawne Williams works, but no way in hell ATL does that) but, Joe Johnson would be perfect. Kidd/Johnson/Marion/Dirk/Gortat with Terry off the bench would be dynamic.
Trade for Ian Snell.
Is Cook the next Mark Macon?
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
That line-up would be sick.
Exec of the year for Donnie and Cuban if they could pull that. Only problem is Dirk, being passive, might only take a dozen shots a game. Wasn’t that one of Marion’s beefs a few years ago- shot attempts? Add in Johnson?…I’d love to see it anyway.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
Norm was saying this morning
FWIW…
That Buckner will be waived. I also think they can only keep one of Singelton/Bass/Hollins.
DB.com is saying they expect one more big deal to go down (they’ve been right on everything else so far…)
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Norm
Is an idiot. Buckner will be waived by someone. The idea that we’ll just flat out waive Buckner is typically short sighted by Norm.
I’m not saying we won’t, it’s certainly possible. But it’s also very possible that they want to try to trim some of the roster by sending out Buckner and filler for a role player of some sort.
People should also remember that Shawne Wiliams seems unlikely to stay on this roster. He was banished last season for behavior issues and is not on this year’s summer league. I don’t expect him to be on the roster when the season starts.
True.
I need to get more sleep I think.
Still I don’t think it’s out of the question he’s sent out for a piece of some sort.
Not at all.
According to db, the instant expiring aspect deadline is 11/30.
No matter what happens, getting Buckner was a huge win for basically no cost.
Yeah
I think there is another deal coming in Sept. like db speculates that includes Buckner and some other filler.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
For help at what position though?
Or do we go for youth and upside on this last move?
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they deal for a SG
I really don’t know if Howard fits on the roster anymore since Marion is here. I know the Mavs’ mgmt is saying they want to keep him — but you never really know.
But, I think it will be for a legit starting SG. I think they’re going for a major splash here.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Well, I don't know
I’m going to wait for Lord over at db.com to get all the cap stuff straight before I start guessing there.
I’ve heard J. Richardson and also rumors of some of the ATL swingmen but I don’t know how the cap numbers would line up.
What do you think?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
That's the thing.
There really aren’t that many “classic” 2s out there.
I might still target Hamilton, though I can’t imagine why they’d want Howard. We’d have to use Damp.
Richardson is a very good offensive player and a very bad defender. I think I pass on him.
The only guys worth trading for are young guys who will outlive Terry on this roster. That’s why my ranking is: 1. Miles 2. Belinelli 3. Fernandez and 4. Eric Gordon (just because this won’t ever happen).
I would do Howard, Buckner + for J. Johnson
Johnson would complete the team.
1. Kidd
2. Johnson
3. Matrix
4. Dirk
5. Gortat
6. Terry
7. Damp
8. Ross
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Bibby/Crawford/Johnson/Smith/Horford
I know they just got Crawford but I don’t see how that lineup works… I think they have to trade one of them.
Trade for Ian Snell.
Crawford is perfect to come off the bench as instant offense.
That’s been Atlanta’s problem of late, they have no depth beyond a really good starting 5.
Interesting....
via rotoworld
According to an ESPN report, there is a three-team trade being discussed that would send Carlos Boozer to Chicago, Kirk Hinrich to Portland, and Tyrus Thomas to Utah.
The Jazz are interested in moving Carlos Boozer in order to keep Paul Millsap, and Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard is facing intense pressure to make a move after missing out on Hedo Turkoglu, as well as criticism for his handling of Brandon Roy’s and LaMarcus Aldridge’s extensions. Add the fact that Thomas has been rumored to be on the block, and all of the ingredients are there for a trade, so stay tuned. Jul. 9 – 6:06 pm et
Source: ESPN.com
Though apparently Portland doesn’t have to give up anything.
I'm sorry, but Tyrus Thomas playing for Jerry Sloan just makes me g-i-g-g-l-e.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
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