Thursday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 9, 2009 8:19 AM CDT
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PrintAnd all of the sudden, the Rangers are in sole possession of first place again. And heading to Seattle for four games against the hated Mariners, who are 4 1/2 games back in the A.L. West.
The big story from yesterday's game, of course, is Andruw Jones going deep in his first three ABs. Evan Grant says that Jones is seizing the full-time job that has opened up with Chris Davis going down to AAA.
Jeff Wilson says Jones has rebounded from his abysmal 2008 to hit like he was when he was on track to be a Hall of Famer.
Ian Kinsler says he's ready to get back in the lineup after a day off yesterday.
T.R. Sullivan writes that the Roy Halladay trade talk has reached the clubhouse, and the Rangers players would like to see him come to Texas.
Wilson says that the Rangers' strong and deep farm system gives the Rangers a leg up, if they decide to pursue Halladay. Tom Hicks says that the Rangers would have to be particular about who they were getting and giving up in any deadline deal.
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This feels good.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
So far
Wash has done a pretty fair job of not overexposing guys like Blalock and Jones, Murphy to some extent. I’d like to see Teagarden start twice a week, which would still give Salty plenty of at bats, and I’d like to see Hamilton in RF and at DH some — something Wash has also hinted at the last couple days.
Wash takes a lot of shit here, some of it from me. Even though some lineups make my eyebrows go up I think he’s handled playing time well overall. The bullpen usage has also been pretty good, with the Rangers 2nd only to the Red Sox in bullpen WPA. He’s leveraged his arms well even with a key guy like Frankie going down. Wash is not a great tactician, but his players play hard for him and I think we focus too much on this or that specific lineup quirk.
If a manager’s most important job is getting his talent to play hard, I’m not sure the Rangers could do much better than Washington.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 9, 2009 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree on all counts
I like to poke fun at his “gut” and some of the random unexplainable decisions he makes, but for the most part they’ve worked out. Plenty of great managers have been less than great tacticians (see Torre, Joe), but they succeed because their players play hard for them, they keep the heat off their players, and they manage the personalities in the room.
When you consider the injuries to Two Frank and Hambone, the ineffectiveness of Davis, and some other issues, Warsh has really done an excellent job this year. A lesser club and lesser manager would have folded by now.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
I still think his penchant for misusing or not playing younger guys conflicts with our long-term interests, myself.
And being a less-than-stellar tactician is something that you can’t get away with in the playoffs (see: Maddon, Joe).
His players play hard for him, but i don’t think he’s going to be the manager to lead us to a world series title.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember when Oates was criticized for using young players the wrong way.
His response was that he was trying to win games and not run a minor league team where players are being taught.
Oates makes a good point
There’s a delicate balance between the two competing thought processes.
Going into this season I wanted to see young guys getting at bats and innings pitched everywhere, but with how the division opened up, I can’t really fault Ron all that much for not running out kids everywhere every single day.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
I think a lot of folks on this
and other Ranger fan blogs would overplay young players at the expense of team success. Breaking in most rookies is hard work. Normally they either start off slow, or even if they get off to a good start hit slumps later.
This team has already been struggling through the new player phases of Davis, Salty, and Andrus, and some folks on here were whining that they weren’t adding Borbon into the mix.
I think Wash has a much better feel for player useage than some on this blog. After all, he is more worried about trying to win this thing than being a daycare for young players.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
by DJCahill on Jul 9, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
The team has been in first or second the entire season, and own the team they are fighting for the lead with. FUCK THE PROSPECTS, let them sit on the bench and rot for all I care, the object of this litle excercise is to win a winnable division title.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
We arent there yet, but i do find all the discussion on use of rooks entertaining
just b/c this is a team that will be good and rookies only have a couple options on good teams. Rookie pitchers slide into bullpen slots and spot start when given a chance, and with some clubs of old for years, before they are given a shot as a full blown rotation member, it still happens today, see Hughes, Phillip. Its just the way that good teams introduce rookie pitchers. Same with Borbon. I hate to break it to you guys but good teams dont generally call up a kid and gift him a spot in the lineup b/c he’s “supposed to be good,” they are forced to work their way into the team, find their role, and be productive when given the opportunity arises. slowly they work their way onto the club and into the lineup, thats the way real baseball works.
what we are accustomed to is being so inconsistent with a long term plan, so up and down from year to year and so used to just being rangers fans praying for some young kid who can come up and just help us get out of this club bullshit ruts historically, that we are failing to realize that this isnt normal, it isnt the way good clubs historically run rookies out there. Borbon biding his time rub you wrong a lil bit? As we get further into the prime of our long term development program it will be just as bad if not worse. Feliz in a week or so. Beaven and Kiker next year, MartyP. Then Scheppers. The Vallejo’s, Max’s, Borbon’s, Davis when he gets called back up and has to work behind smoak. Im sure we will have a couple surprise fast risers in there too. All these guys are gonna have to slowly work their way first onto the 25 man and then onto the club itself. It’ll be tough, it may frustrate you and the club at times for all kinds of different reasons, but it also will show that we are a good solidly built from top to bottom baseball club. Those clubs can win it all
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
I can understand
maybe pushing a real high level prospect, like Teixeira or Smoak right to a starting spot.
But the second tier and third tier prospects, like Borbon? Please.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I think plus defense up the middle usually translates from minors to ML pretty well
We’ve seen that with Andrus, and Boston didn’t skip a beat when they handed the CF keys to Ellsbury. If you have a guy that is a premium defender up the middle and is going to drastically improve your defense, I think you have an easier time making a spot for them. Those guys don’t have to wield a hot bat to contribute.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
I look at it this way
Sooner or later these guys are going to come up and experience growing pains. You can either work through them now, and not have to deal with them when the team has a better chance of going deep into the playoffs in 2010-11, or you can just delay the inevitable.
As much as I’d like to see them win now, I’d rather pack as many of the growing pains into this year as we can and be in a better position to kick ass in 2010. But that’s just me, I know most people would rather focus on trying to seize the present, just like Wash’s one track mind has been since he was hired.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
A manager's job depends, in large part, on winning now, not preparing to kick tail in the future
Warsh would love to build a decade long dynasty as much as any of the rest of us, but if he doesn’t win in the near term he won’t be around to see that.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
"when the team has a better chance of going deep into the playoffs in 2010-11"
It is far from guaranteed that is the case.
We could be better next year, but we could also be worse. The managers job right now is to try and win a division that he is leading half way into the season. Trying to improve next year’s team isn’t really among Worsh’s top priorities – and to suggest that it is means that you’re a dumbass.
There's more to the picture than meets the eye.
So what about the last two years
And his windmill jousting with Sosa and Laird?
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
You mean
that failed catcher, Gerald Laird? Apparently playing Barajas over Laird was the right call.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
i miss OMFT :(
not really, i just miss the nickname
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
yeah, i kinda miss PopUp too
in just an old school great nickname kinda way. Id be curious to see PopUp’s fly ball % that season compared to IK’s just for perspective. heh
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
I thought it was OMFF?
One Man, Five Flavors
ummm….ice cream!
"Thats all we got? One goddamned hit?" - Harry Doyle
"You cant say god damn on the radio."- Colorman
"Ehhh, who cares...nobody's listening!"- Harry Doyle
"and to suggest that it is means that you’re a dumbass"
heh
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I'd disagree
you don’t get that many chances to go to the playoffs, as the Rangers found out. This year they have an excellent chance.
This team is currently working through the new player phase not just with Elvis, Davis, and Salty, but Teagarden, Cruz, O’Day, Holland, etc. Ron’s got his hand ful with projects, and he is doing a great job getting them some time, in my opinion.
Next year, a bunch of those players, like Salty and Cruz and others will pretty much be veterans, who are what they are. Then they can probably add a couple more new players into the mix.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Agree completely!
Borbon’s time(and Davis or Smoak) will come next year. Put all rookies out there now and everyone will be howling like wolves!
Definiton of insanity-doing the same thing and expecting different results
"Introducing your 2009 Texas Rangers-Built for Insanity!"
Also
the thought that Borbon would be a huge shot in the arm is tough to see looking at his minor league stats. Its not like he is a 400 OBP guy. Most likely you will see declining stats when he is in his rookie season, so that .365 OBP thats good in AAA may well be a sub .300 OBP in his first month or two in the majors.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Also
the thought that Borbon was totally misused and served no purpose being called up was refuted by none other than the player himself, which kinda proves many here are dumbasses.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
thank you guys
for restoring my sanity.
by corbsclinton on Jul 9, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup, I'll admit to being off-base on that.
Won’t cop to being a dumbass, though.
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
I said many, not all...
;)
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Teagarden and Holland are pretty piss-poor examples of his managing skills, IMO.
Tea has bascially been religated to backup catcher despite Salty doing nothing to really deserve the full-time starting job, and Ron’s use of Holland out of the bullpen is horrid.
Elvis and Davis had defined roles on this team to start the year, he’d had no choice but to play them. He’s starting to snub Cruz playing time for Jones, although Cruz might deserve it if he doesn’t start playing better again. O’Day played his way into his role, plain and simple, I don’t see how Wash can be credited with anything but being learning to rely on him back in April when he was one of the three reliable guys out there in the ’pen.
I don’t think his playing time decision and “project management” deserve any praise at all, myself.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Your Wash hatred is getting real annoying
Its almost to the level of Joseys JD hatred to me. Nothing the guy does pleases you.
Teagarden has been relegated to backup catcher because…well he is the backup catcher.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
And on top of that...
Wasn’t LSJ all over Salty’s dick to be the primary catcher?
You can’t have it both ways.
I was all over his dick when he looked like he could turn into a decent offensive player.
Instead he’s regressed into Gerald Laird, and I hated Gerald Laird.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Let me get this straight
you banged the drum loud and long for Salty to get a chance. He improved his defense by a wide margin but is struggling with the bat. He’s 23. And you’re ready to throw in the towel.
God damn weather vane is what you are. Thank God the Rangers are more patient than you.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jul 9, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The guy's got 800 ML PA's.
Even if he is 23, I expected more from him than that by this point, and he’s done nothing but regress this year.
I still like him and desperately want him to succeed, but I’m done campaigning for him to get special treatment. He’s hit like shit this year, and Teagarden deserves to play more.
I don’t see that that’s being a weather vane, it’s just common sense.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Even if he is 23,
he’s several years older than you…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I don't see your point.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
question
why do you have a melissa etheridge avatar?
by sam in so cal on Jul 9, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
It's Miranda Lambert, actually.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
And as for the why, well...
Lets just say she and her work have held a somewhat special place in my heart for awhile.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
funny
nice one BG lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that too, lol
Get on base or die, Salty.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm fine with Teagarden getting two starts a week
but not because I think Salty is going nowhere. Salty was called up too early by the Braves I think, then had his development as a catcher jacked around by the Rangers sticking him at 1B. Now he’s focused on his defense, and I think catchers lose some hitting when they focus their attention on defense like that.
He’s done exactly what the Rangers asked him to and is being rewarded for it. I think he’ll hit better in the long run. Catchers take longer to develop than other positions in my view. Let him play.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
There is something to be said
that Salty’s bat is probably never going to be good as advertised. He may end up being an above average, but he was kind of touted as a C who hits like a 1B, which I take to mean around an 850 OPS guy or better.
I tend to doubt that’s going to happen. He still might be an above average MLB catcher though.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
His touting also suggested that his bat was going to make up for his defense
In a poor man’s Piazza sort of way.
But his D has since eclipsed what was projected, so I don’t need him to OPS .850 to be happy with him.
The problem is we got spoiled by a catcher who hit like a first baseman and also played the best defense of any backstop alive. Those guys are one in a million, plenty of playoff contenders have been built on something less: catchers who hit decently and play good defense.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Thats probably true
but if he is an average hitting good fielding C, he may have Teagarden nipping at his heals.
He may end up being an above average catcher when you combine hitting and defense, but of course the disappointment comes from thinking that we were getting a star player. So, its not like he’s going to be a bad catcher, he may just not be one of those bedrock, best in the league guys like was being touted.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Yeah, but that's always a risk you take trading for prospects
Even if Salty ends up being a slight disappointment, we still made out like bandits on that deal.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Spoiled not just by Pudge
I think if you look over the entire history of the franchise, catching has been the positional strength of the Rangers. I would imagine that the Rangers have more catching gold gloves than any other team (at least in the AL, maybe the Reds have more). Between Sundberg and Pudge, this team easily had two of the top ten best defensive catchers of all time.
Add in that Sundberg wasn’t a total slouch with the bat, Pudge was very good (great for a catcher), and the series of guys like Laird, Barajas, and Petralli who were placeholders in Texas yet have no problem getting a starting gig elsewhere. Heck, it seems like half the backup catchers in the league have spent time as Rangers.
Go Rice Owls!
Excellent point
I don’t think many organizations can lay claim to having such catching prowess for a large part of their history, especially not younger franchises.
We rant and rave about how bad guys like Laird, Barajas, etc. are and in reality those guys start everywhere for “normal” teams not spoiled by Pudge and Sunny.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
knee jerk?
i dunno what all the fuss is about salty. he’s around .265 and i love his improved defense and arm, personally ill give him 2 more seasons or so to learn the OBP thing because ive seen him use good judgement when it comes to balls and strikes, i think the walks will come around and i think he can be a .280 plus or minus hitter that has pop. thats cool with me. especially for a catcher thats damn good.
a lot of peoples’ problem here is a total lack of patience, in every single way. They want youth, they want high upside high risk draft picks and acquisitions, but they dont want the growing pains that are associated with kids coming up. they want their cake and eat it too, and im starting to think you might as well throw them in the same boat with the guys who want us to sign every star and get a 150M dollar payroll every season in the fantasy land crowd.
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
Nothing he does pleases me because I don't see him doing anything worth applauding him for
I’ve applauded him for doing things like keeping CJ away from right-handers earlier this year, but right now, I just don’t see Ron doing anything but his same old shit these days. The difference between now and in the past is things happen to be going Wash’s way right now. AJ’s hitting homers left and right, the bullpen is good to the point of being almost impossible to mishandle. But I don’t see him actually doing anything different than in the past, like he was earlier this year.
Right now the team is playing well, and he’s along for the ride. I don’t see why he should suddenly gt credit for that when he’s really not doing anything different to cause it.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
If he gets no credit right now
Then he should get no blame for when they were bad the last two years right?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Perhaps that is the real point here
I’m not right, and the people who are trying to coronate Wash king of managers aren’t right, it just doesn’t fucking matter. Maybe that’s what I need to learn.
I’m just ticked off because people are all over Wash’s balls because we’re winning again, after being ready to crucify him back in April. You wanna talk weather vane? That’s a weather vane.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
x
First of all, who’s “all over Wash’s balls”?
Second, maybe some praise is warranted now, as admonishment was warranted a few months ago. That’s not called a weather vane, it’s called context.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, that was just a shot a t-ball saying I'm a weather vane for being down on Salty this year above
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Yes, I know.
But it doesn’t make sense.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Like you said...
Context.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
You're a weather vane
Because you move with the prevailing winds, not just because you change your mind.
You wanted to give Salty a chance, and now that he’s improved in one area and struggled in another, you’re ready to toss him on his ass for a new unproven. You won—now give it a little more time.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I never said toss him
I’m just saying that Teagarden deserves to play more at this point, and has for awhile.
Defense was never something that I was worried about with him, I always felt he had adequate tools (although I never thought he’d be this good) and more importantly, I thought he’d hit. What I want to see from him and every other catcher we’ve got is some freaking offensive production.
He wasn’t supposed to be Gerald Laird, he was supposed to be Victor Martinez, and I’m kind of worried that the product just isn’t as advertised.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Victor Martinez is not a good defensive catcher
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I know, and I never gave two shits about Salty being a good defensive catcher.
Still don’t, really. My whole Salty hard-on was based on his highly-touted offense, and if he’s not going to be at least an above-average offensive catcher, well…
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
He may well end up being
an above average offensive Catcher.
Here are averages for MLB Cs the last few years
2007 .256/.318/.394
2008 .257/.325/.390
2009 .258/.325/.400
Salty may be able to creep up to that by years end.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
By above average
I’m thinking more along the lines of a 770 OPS, at least. He probably can’t get to that this year, but in the future, I’d like to see him in the 770’s at least, and more like the high 780’s/low 790’s.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Who here is coronating
Wash king of managers?
Most folks are just saying he doesn’t completely suck.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
You've been around longer than that...
If you take a position in the middle, some folks at the extremes ALWAYS accuse you of being at the far extreme.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
I've always liked Wash
I know Rodney and I never jumped on the Wash bashing bandwagon.
He makes some lineup decisions I’m not pleased with but I think he’s a decent manager. Unfortunately, I think the things that make him a decent manager can’t be quantified with stats so I can’t prove it.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
Yup
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
I never got it, either.
I think I jumped on for like 5 minutes before one game earlier this year when he had Cruz batting like 7th or 8th in a lineup where he obviously needed to be higher, but that was just knee jerk frustration. I never really wanted him gone.
Wash is fine.
People tend to way overvalue a manager’s importance in some aspects, I think.
I always found the whole “Wash is horribe” movement to be rather cloying and not really based in reality.
A lot of the negative charges leveled at Wash aren’t really all his fault, and he handles the most important part of managing (the players themselves) very very well without horribly butchering the in game stuff for the most part.
The reality is that you’re never gonna find that “perfect” manager. That guy who does everything the exact way you want him to and never makes gut plays you don’t understand. That guy doesn’t exist. If you can find a guy who the players love and who can keep the Good Face-dumbery to an acceptable minimum, that’s someone to hang on to. And that’s the way I feel about Ron Washington.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 9, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Huh?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 9, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
With the Holy Spirit
Because you’ve preached such truth.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
he made a lot of lineup and bullpen decisions...
that were questionable at best last year but he seems to be a lot better at them this year IMO.
CBS sports seems to think so too not that they’re the end all in manager rankings..
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/14664481/15037445
"You're going to love my nuts"
Vince from slap chop
Yeah, that was just brutal
The writer gets most of the order right (but then again, how hard is it to put Francona at #1?), but Eric Wedge at 8? C’mon. His analysis then makes an argument for why Wedge should be ranked lower than that. 2 winning seasons in 8 years is inexcusable. The Indians have underachieved more than any ballclub in baseball the last few years.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
I think the success of the manager (Wash in this case) is a better this year because he has better players. Is that true?
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
i am willing to say he did better this year than last year
but the rangers are not winning because of RW at all.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
he shouldn't be hitting jones as much
but he’s getting lucky because jones is playing well.
perhaps it would help if you gave someone with 40 years more of baseball experience a little bit more credit.
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
x
perhaps it would help if you gave someone with 40 years more of baseball experience a little bit more credit.
I think that’s what annoys me. It’s fine to vigorously disagree with move(s), but the continuous assault on a lifetime of baseball experience by a guy who’s been a fan for maybe 5 years is just silly, especially since it implies that not only is Washington a dumbass, but also many management-types are as well for keeping him employed for so long.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
When you put it that way,
it is very Wails-esque, isn’t it?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
That's stupid
It doesn’t matter how much baseball experience you have or don’t have. Stupid moves are stupid moves regardless of how much baseball experience you have in life.
And just to be clear, I’m not agreeing with LSJ on pretty much anything in this thread except Teagarden should start at least one more game a week,.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I'm afraid
I didn’t make myself clear (or you just misunderstood).
It’s not the moves, it’s the questioning of his knowledge and/or experience.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends what knowledge you're talking about
If you’re questioning his baseball knowledge, that’s completely fair IMO. None of that guarantees him to know a single thing about how to manage a game.
Now the people that consistently question his intelligence in real life because of the moves he makes in baseball, that’s pretty ridiculous.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
OK
So maybe we’re talking about the same thing.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Experience doesn’t make anyone above reproach, IMO. Wash has never really done anything to make me respect him as a baseball mind or tactician… so I don’t.
I know I’m like Custer at Little Bighorn in this thread at this point, but watching him manage, I simply think the guy is not a very sharp baseball mind and nobody but Wash could possibly ever change my mind about that.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Well
Why has he continuously had a job in baseball?
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Because he's a former player and madea good coach.
Neither of those things mean he can manage a baseball team however.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Now that's something different
Nobody’s talking about him as a manager.
You’ve basically said he has no clue about baseball, which is the bone I have.
by brettgardner on Jul 9, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
He knows how to play the game
That’s fine. But that doesn’t mean he knows how to manage it.
To me, a baseball mind should mean somebody who understands the game and it’s strategics, like an umpire or a GM, not necessarily a player. Ron was a good coach because he understands players and how to motivate them. But he makes a lousy manager because he doesn’t fully grasp the concepts of actually managing an entire team or a game.
Best analogy I can think of is Ambrose Burnside. Did fine commanding his Corps at Antietam, but just wasn’t up to the job of commanding the entire Army of the Potamac. Some people get promoted beyond their capability, and I think Wash is in that category.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Peter Principle
may be in effect here as you suggest, but he is improving and the players have his back.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Agree, tball
LSJ, you get a rec from me for pulling out an Ambrose Burnside reference. Well done.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Ha thanks, I wasn't sure if anyone would really get that after I posted it.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
LOL. glad to see all these Civil War refs..
My money wouold have been on Hancock.
FWIW, I just tracked down the DVD version of Ken Burns’ Civil War, and have already watched it straight through twice.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
check out the newt gingrich/fortschen
civil war historical ficton. VERY good books.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh man, I LOVE those books.
Might be my favorite books ever.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
RW
would take a lot to impress me
and i have been far from impressed by him this year
was he better than he has been in the past? yes
but its not like he set the bar high then…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
Jon, growing pains, yes
but you must decide how many players you can have going through growing pains at the same time. This team is in first place partly because Wash has handled playing time well for those going through growing pains. You simply cannot just throw bunches of young players in the lineup every night — especially over players with hot bats like the OF veterans already on the roster.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
But But but!!!!
he batted Borbon sixth in his debut! SIXTH! Shouldn’t he be fired for that?!?!?!?
Go Rice Owls!
he doesnt put players in a position to START OFF WELL
how is borbon hitting sixth and DHing helping him?
how is the BS with madrigal last year, holland this year helping them?
it doesnt.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
If one game out of their careers ruins them then they probably aren't major league players to begin with
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i know you dont think it matters
and no, in the “grand scheme” it doesnt
but its the fact that he keeps doing it with players in their first chances
to me that either says he has no idea what he is doing or he is trying to put them into the pressure situationa nd hope they turn into a diamond — both which are reasonable
but you think the situations he has put 4 players in (in recent memory) in their first MLB situations is “ok”?
do you think RW is a manager that could lead the rangers deep into the playoffs? could win a playoff series?
i dont think the ansewr is yes to either one
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think they are necessarily ok
But they are not the career ending development stunting decisions you make them out to be. I wouldn’t have put Madrigal in the game last year at NY.
When Holland came in I believe there were few options left out of the pen
And with the way our offense was going when Borbon was called up I see very little difference in hitting 6th and hitting 9th where most wanted him to hit.
I do think Wash can lead this team to a playoff series win and I can’t wait to see it happen in a couple months
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Are we doing this again?
How about this? By batting him 6th he’s guaranteed to hit in the second inning so he can get his jitters out of the way and/or doesn’t sit there dwelling on his first PA. By DHing he isn’t sitting there worried he’ll make a gaff in the OF and he can just adjust to being in the majors.
None of those are great but they’re reasons. Better than claiming hitting a rookie 6th is the worst decision ever made.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
Heh.
Guaranteed to hit in the second?
I’m not disagreeing with the larger point, mind you, but…
Your 2009 Texas Rangers: Can't take a fucking to save their lives.
i guarantee you
borbon never hits sixth again as long as he is in the major leagues
borbon never DHs again as long as he is in the major leagues
yet its ok, because its “just one game”
so like i said, if andrus hits 3rd, its ok
if hamilton hits 8th, its ok
its the fact that he keeps making these foolish decisions that irks me to no end — for ex, sitting kinsler last night. yes, he needed rest — but your playing for FIRST PLACE in your division, against you most hated rival, he is probably your best or 2nd best player (no matters what shape hamilton is in) and you have another game the next day vs another division rival who is in 3rd aand then the Allstar Break. now, maybe there were other things that played into the decision, clearly i dont know, but on the surface what sense does that make?
to bench your probably best player in a pretty big game…do you think if jeter was in a slump and tired that he would allow himself to be benched vs the redsox?
what about pujols vs the cubs?
unless there was more or IK asked for the day off (which would be a whole other thing) what sense does that make
RW does have 40 years in the game. but he makes some boneheaded decision. more than someone with 40 years in the game should amke.
and yes, he doesnt have that big of an impact on the game (most managers dont) but its very frusterating to see this continue to happen. for a man with 40 years in the game to make decisions that someone with 0 years as a professional could make.
i feel that the day to day decisions that he makes (obv there is more than just that to being a managaer) could be made by anyone. JD. billy fucking beane. wyoranger. bigsteve. newberg. jason parks. ajayem. anyone.
if this was buck making these decisions he would be blasted by everyone on this board, but because it is easygoing RW people are continuing to give him passes…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The night off for Kinsler...
How is giving Kinsler 1 night off such a huge deal, particularly given his slump and the bench available to Washington?
It’s not like we sat Kinsler to play Vasquez in a major game, or even some scrub like Cody Ransom.
We sat Kinsler for Vizquel, for one game where it appeared that we had a pretty clear pitching advantage.
We didn’t sacrifice his glove (possibly upgraded 2nd’s defense), and (given Ian’s issues at the plate) didn’t sacrifice much on his bat in going to Vizquel.
On the other side, we could gain a rested and higher-performance Kinsler for 4 games where we have generally unfavorable pitching match-ups against a division rival that does not appear to be out of the race.
I genuinely think this was a good move by Wash, and I’m by no means a supporter most of the time. I think the bigger flub-up last night was him playing Byrd over Cruz for two nights in a row.
I definitely agree with you.
I think getting players some rest may show big dividends against Seattle.
Also, considering Kinsler is .077/.143/.231 for July, its laughable to suggest you are putting a win at peril.
The Rangers have one of the best benches I can recall them having. There are no Donnie Sadlers or Manny Alexanders here. All their backups can legitimitely start a reasonable number of games. They’d be stupid not to use that to their advantage over a long, Hot, Texas season.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Good point re: pitching disadvantage
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
This
If you want to be pissed be pissed about sitting a red hot David Murphy against Weaver the first game of the series. It wouldn’t have made a difference ultimately I don’t think but I have a much bigger gripe with sitting hot players than sitting cold, slumping players regardless of who they are or how good they are.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Halladay is a pipe dream.
Rather take a chance and try to raid Arizona… offer up some sort of package for Haren (slightly less of a pipe dream, but probably a pipe dream as well) or Max Scherzer.
Way to not lurk and instead shit all over yourself during your first fanshot.
-FirebatM3 to Ryan2907. 6/3/09.
Both of those guys are pipe dreams
Scherzer has to be one of the most untouchable young pitchers in the game right now.
Halladay and Haren just aren’t coming here — the money too big.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
I don't think money is that big an issue.
Too much has been made about Hicks “borrowing” money from MLB. He didn’t borrow it, but instead, pulled money from the fund from the sale of the Nats.
If he’s getting ready to sell controlling interest in the team, he’d lose that 15 million for his own use.
this is how i looked at it
if the team is sold, migh tas well use it now as opposed to later when you CANT lose it
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
Well, that would also lower the value of the team on the market
You would factor in those future payments to the club when coming up with what you think is fair value for the team. If you aren’t going to receive those payments in the future, then the team is worth less. What I’m getting at is it’s not like a free benefit to the Hicks — he’ll feel the impact of it whenever the team sells.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 9, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt that money will affect the overall value of the team.
It’s like home improvements to sell a house. There are some improvements which will enhance the value and others that are a waste of money.
I don’t think having that money in the MLB coffers is really going to affect the value of the selling price of the team.
It will certainly affect it
Maybe not on a big scale, but those are future positive cash flows for a team. If they are no longer available to a potential buyer (meaning the asset has already been used) then it will affect the value of the club.
I’m not saying it’s a major deal — but it’s not like free money to Hicks — that’s all I’m saying.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 9, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
was hicks owner of the rangers when The League bought the club?
if not, perhaps that is money all clubs themselves have outside of ownership possesion held by the league, but owners of the clubs dont have access to the fund without without interest payments to the league, in an effort to always build the asset fund even when the money available is being used. i dunno if that makes sense, but i can visualize a setup where the money even though it is accessible to all the owners, is in fact a pot totally controlled by the league to help each club rather than each owners stability. if that makes sense…
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
Wilson's article mentions players being willing to defer money to get Halladay in here
That’s gotta be MY talking, right? Nobody else really has a long term deal big enough to even worry about that.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
I could be wrong
but wasnt Kinsler signed to a long term deal recently?
He doesn't really have a huge contract though
3 mil this year, 4 mil next year. Doesn’t start really getting expensive til 6 mil in 2011.
Doesn’t start getting expensive til 2011. That’s one thing that really gets overlooked in Ranger circles, is that we got an absolute freaking steal when we locked him into that deal – according to Fangraphs he’s worth 12.9 mil this season, and we’re paying him a fourth of that.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Kinsler
We are just spoiled with him. Plus i would love him to be a 3 hole hitter as opposed to a leadoff hitter. Hopefully, the development of Andrus and Borbon will force that issue
Well, maybe Millwood or Padilla too
They’re only making 4-5 mil less than MY this year, and he’s already got 15 mil deferred according to Cots. But those are really the only ones that stick out.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
by LSJ on Jul 9, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, that would help for this season
But, what about next year? Millwood is the only one likely to have a “big” contract next year.
Also, all the quotes came from hitters so I was thinking it had to be one of them.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
unless its a business deal
Hick and JD: "Hey Padz, 7% interest on the rest of what we owe ya this year if we defer it and spread it over 5 years? ends up making business sense to any1 in this market no?
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
Will the Rangers make the playoffs IF the trade for Halladay?
If so, how far will they go?
You would have a 4 man rotation in the playoffs presumably of Halladay, Millwood, Feldman, Padilla/Hunter (matters a lot on what happens the rest of the way with those two guys).
Who knows?
And once you get into the playoffs it’s a huge crapshoot anyhow.
5 game series are the worst.
But it’d make us a better team and improve our chances of a serious WS run.
It would just depend on how much of our future we’d have to send North of the border. I mean, do we really want to compete with the Cardinals if they make a blow away offer centered around Brett Wallace and any other minor leaguers the Jays want, or a Braves offer including Escobar and maybe Heyward, any other similar offer? I mean, who knows what some team might be willing to send out to get Halladay.
And then there’s the small matter of the money…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
i think if this team really wants to be a serious contender in the next few years
they need to get halladay. even though we have several prospects with huge upside, you can’t expect them to become ace worthy within their first few years. i would try my best to hold on to holland, but i think you give up whatever else it takes to get halladay here
"5 game series are the worst."
They are the worst if you’re obviously the best team going into the series. If you’re the Rangers and you make it into the playoffs this year, you’re happy it’s a five game series because the only way you’re moving on is with a little luck on your side anyway.
Go Rice Owls!
you would have to think pretty far
halladay and millwood would be a pretty good 1 and 2 for a playoff series. millwood had some pretty good playoff starts for the braves when he was there. And for the third and fourth starters, you can use holland and feliz to bridge the middle innings to get to cj and FF
The DBacks won the World Series with a two man rotation
I feel good about our chances with these pitchers come playoff time.
I’d be more worried about not scoring any runs than our pitchers keeping us in the games.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Yeah,
but that was a helluva lot of 2 man rotation. I don’t think Millwood and Halladay match Johnson and Schilling in their prime.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Well certainly not, did not mean to imply that
My point was that you don’t even remotely need five (or even four) strong starters and seven good relievers to win a playoff series.
Barring a collapse in performance by any of them, I feel pretty solid about throwing Millwood, Padilla, and Feldman in a playoff series, DOD/BGL/FX2 on the back end of games, and then Hunter/Holland/Feliz in long relief, starting a game, or wherever else you need them.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
If we deal for Halladay..
then there is strong chance that Holland or Feliz will not be in the org. This is how i see a deal going down:
1) Feliz/Holland/Perez
2) Salty/Teagarden/Borbon
3) Font/Boscan/Wieland/Ross
4) Lemon/Moreland/Vallejo
would anyone here have a problem with giving up
Feliz, Teagarden, Ross, and Vallejo for Halladay?
I would hate to see Feliz go, but what are the chances that he ever approaches the level of Halladay? Teagarden is no guarantee to hit much, Ross and Vallejo are very expendable. Even if we did this trade, I still think we have the number 1 farm system. I think at some point, you have to go all in to try and win it all. I think this is a slam dunk deal if you can get an extension signed, but even if you don’t, you are left with two legitimate chances to be closer than the rangers have ever been to a world series and the draft picks that you receive if halladay goes elsewhere
Feliz
If we are going to switch him to a reliever, which is what I believe is going on, then I have no problem giving him up for Halladay
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I also believe the
performance of Perez makes giving up Feliz even more acceptable.
that is not what we are doing
"I just want to comment on how it’s become like a common thing in the [MLB] for guys to fall in love with [the Rangers’s] sloppy seconds." (thanks cstorm)
As soon as I see Feliz as a probable starter for a major league game then I will agree with you
Until then the longer Feliz stays in the OKC bullpen and pitching in late game situations I will continue to believe they have made the decision to convert him to reliever and utilize his biggest asset, his fastball, in limited spans
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
So you tihnk JD and Co are flat out lying to everyone
when they say it’s a temporary move to help the big club on a more immediate basis?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Basically yes, that's what he thinks
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
Has JD lied?
If I recall he was not completely commital to Feliz going back to a starter.
I think the Rangers realize the backlash they would recieve if they came out and openly said they were permanently moving not only their top pitching prospect, but one of baseballs top pitching prospects, to the bullpen so early in their career. With the history of our club developing pitchers the public would be irate if they came out and said that.
So by using the line of “We are doing this so he can help us this year” it gives them time. I believe they hope Feliz comes up and dominates out of the pen this year enough so that they can simply say “His success out of the pen leads us to believe he will be a bigger asset out there than as a starter” type line. And with the wave of pitching prospects coming up they can use the depth of our farm to say we have too many pitchers and they are doing it to ease the congestion.
I very strongly believe this until JD or Nolan comes out and definitively says Feliz will return to starting next year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
OK fair enough, I found the JD quote
“We still feel he may start for us in the future, but we’re going to go down this path first.”
I see how that could be interpreted both ways.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 9, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
i would do it in a heartbeat
that said, i d still rather move holland than feliz
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Where do I sign
although I don’t see it happening for that package.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I better it is something pretty similar
We arent the only team not wanting to take on salary. I think that could trump any Phillies offer. I dont see the Red Sox giving up Buchholz and if they arent willing to part with him i dont think a deal will get done. The Yankees are out. I dont think the Braves make a run at him period despite having the guys to get him.
by Michael Cave on Jul 9, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, the only predictors anyone has found for postseason success are
starters with high k/9
shutdown closer
great defense
Halladay is a guy that can win one game. He brings up the team’s K/9. I think he immensely improves the Rangers chances of advancing.
A few weeks ago I had written off the idea of trading for an ace, and focusing on a bat to help the Rangers not collapse. Back to the get-an-ace approach!
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
Marlon Byrd is like the anti-Eric Fry.
Every pic I see he looks impressed as hell.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
Marlon Byrd to talk to MLB about use of Conte's supplements
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Halladay is 32 years old
How many more years do you see him being a TORG????
I thought it was TORP?!
I’m so confused. Anyway, if he’s not a TORP/TORG, he’ll at least be an ALAIE for plenty of time to come.
Yea if you want to say
Top Of Rotation Pitcher.
I’m all about the Top Of The Rotation Guy :-)
Hey, we share the same birthday.
No one cares about this but me.
Still, neat-o.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
I share mine with Tommy Hunter
he gave me an awesome birthday present this year with that start.
Go Rice Owls!
I bitch both yall...
Martin Perez.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 9, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Terry Steinbach and Ron Gant.
Blah.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
mine would eat all of yours
mo vaughn.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Rance Mulliniks
Beat that!
Oh yeah, and Matt Holliday and Armando Galarraga. And MLK, Jr.
I'm sporting a sad face...
I have Nelson Cruz, but the most famous player of all time sharing mine is someone along the lines of Boots Poffenberger (I Shit you not)
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Raul Ibanez and Freddy Adu.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
If I had such a glorious birthday I'd commemorate it each year with a day of jump throws.
From morning to night I’d do nothing but do a bunch of super sweet jump throws.
Cause jump throws are the meaning of life.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
by thedirkatron on Jul 9, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Phil fuckin Nevin
And he’s the only guy that has over a 800 OPS unless you go back to 1872. Not a good day to be born I guess. Just ask anyone that knows me.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
Willy McCovey
George Foreman, Linda Lovelace…
I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
Lots of good musicians on my bday
Esa Pekka-Salonen, Stanley Clarke, Buddy Rich, Lena Horne
Most interesting guy on June 30, though, is Gavrilo Princip, assassin of the Archduke Ferdinand.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Pitchers don't age like hitters
You can get some guys pitching until they are almost 40 as TORGs. Others fade away, others just fall off the map.
Halladay strikes me as the type of guy who could be very good for a very long time. He’s my current pick for the most likely active pitcher to get to 300 wins.
Go Rice Owls!
Johan is two years younger (30)
and just 23 wins behind Halladay, fwiw.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
And CC Sabathia is four years younger (I think) and pretty close as well.
But I see Halladay as being more durable than either of those two (especially CC, whose weight can’t be good for durability)
Go Rice Owls!
Oh, I agree. Halladay is certainly a spectacle.
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going out on a limb here
I don’t want to see us get Halladay. Not for what it will cost us to get him. I just don’t think it’s worth it.
"You got a guy coming up there who can’t hit water if he fell out of a boat." - Tom Grieve on Richie Sexson, 5.8.2008
"I’ve been a Rangers fan all my life and I can tell you there’s been plenty of fucking crying in baseball…" - WhipSmart, 6.3.08
"When it comes to Jeff Mathis, the story ends with us putting one in his earhole." - AJM, 7.7.08
I think with how the org.
is looking over the next few yrs and the improvement in defense I think that Halladay would be willing to come here.
You're not on a limb
There’s a few of us who wonder about the ultimate cost.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
Not only is it reported by LOL, it deserves LOL as well
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
by WestTxAg06 on Jul 9, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly, though...
When you look at some of the OPS+ numbers on that team, he might stick. His 78 OPS+ for us last year is a lot better than some of the guys they’ve been running out there.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2009.shtml
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
As much as I would hate losing that much young talent..
I would be pretty stoked about Halladay being here.
I would be more excited about a full season of Halladay in 2010 though. I’m not getting myself hung up on playoff talk until 80% of the season is completed.
Sheets
I don’t think the Rangers really land Halladay, but if they do that means we are out on Sheets, right?
by GregoryM on Jul 9, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions
Would that disappoint you?
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
I doubt Sheets pitches this year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Why would it mean we'd be out on Sheets?
One can never have too many TORG’s.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
That'd be a playoff rotation next year...
If Sheets is healthy, our 1-2-3 would be:
Halladay, Sheets, Millwood.
Millwood isn’t a good #1, but he’d be a damn servicable #3 right now. Then we’d have Holland/Feldman to fill out 4/5… That would be damn sexy.
We’d be in a nice situation at that point with Hunter and Feliz knocking, and Beavan + others wanting a shot.
Course, H-S-M will never happen. It would destroy the Ranger’s legacy of all bats, no arms.
Once again
if we have Halladay then either Feliz or Holland is gone….
by Michael Cave on Jul 9, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Good one, potts
If Sheets is healthy
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ROFLMMFAO
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
Millwood is more than just a "damn serviceable #3"
He might be the best #3 in all of baseball. At least in the non Red Sox category. Who is their #3 right now, Warren Spahn?
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
It was meant as a compliment to him.
In an understatement sort of way.
Fair enough then
I might go weak in the knees if suddenly Millwood became our #3.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
Well, for money reasons
it would make it tougher to sign Sheets. But Halladay is a lot less risky than Sheets, so if they have Halladay I wouldn’t care much about signing Sheets unless it was a very team-friendly deal.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Pretty ridic if we get Halladay
but still…
WHERE THE EFF IS BEN SHEETS? (not so much for this season…but I’d assume that if we didn’t get Sheets for next season, we’d be more inclined to go after Halladay)
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
The thought of actually counting on sheets
makes my skin crawl a little. With BMac, I think we’ve seen what injury prone pitchers can do to a rotation when they are inevitably injured.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
that's fine to be afriad when you're not too deep
but think about the starters in addition to Millwood, Feldman, Holland, Harrison, Hunter, McCarthy and possibly (but doubtful) Padilla that will be piping through next year at some point: Feliz, Kiker, Scheppers, Beavan, Poveda, Kirkman; in addition to Hurley and any other NRIs we attack (which you know we’ll have a few of those)
That’s a lot of names for very few slots.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it premature to say that, barring some catastrophe, I'm not worried about Rangers pitching for the foreseeable future?
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
I think it all depends on what happens with Feliz
and if we sign a healthy Sheets or make a move for a Buchholz, Halladay, Cain, etc.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Where does Halladay rate in your opinion of top starters in MLB right now?
hes number 2 to me
1 Haren
2 Halladay
3 Beckett
by mikeyoungfuturehof on Jul 9, 2009 11:10 AM CDT reply actions
I'd say...
1. Greinke
2. Lincecum
3. Halladay
Beckett is good, but even a guy like Felix Hernandez or Cliff Lee is better right now, I think.
Agree with this,
maybe swap Greinke and Lincecum. And I’d still put Santana up there, maybe 3-B.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
The reason I gave Greinke the top spot is...
He’s playing in the AL, and he isn’t playing in AT&T Park.
Oh yeah, and he has atrocious players playing behind him, so (at least for me), he has to get a bit of a nod here due to the Royals’ bad defense (-15.6 thus far by UZR). Conversely, the Giants are +22.9 by UZR.
Yep, very nice
Can’t go wrong w/ either. Just looked up Haren’s numbers- 0.8 WHIP, Damn.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
Close...
1) Lincecum
2) Halladay
3) Haren/Greinke (Haren has only 15 walks in 121 innings, Greinke just 21 walks in 127 innings, that’s just sick)
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I'd agree if you put Santana as 1b
and tossed Lester’s name in there somewhere
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I love Cliff Lee like a son, but no way is Cliff Lee better than Josh Becket.
Lee’s a really solid pitcher, but nowhere near a true ace, imo.
When he’s right Becket is insane.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
Agreed, Beckett in a groove is as unhittable of a machine as you can find in baseball in the last few decades
Though there is something hilarious about saying you love a guy like a son when I’m pretty sure he’s older than you.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
I was just going by WAR this season.
But that isn’t an unfair assessment from you — I have a bit of a own personal bias because I’m so sick and tired of the east coast bias crap.
Wow...
ESPN’s “First Take” lead story was the Angels/Rangers game. Headline:
Rangers lead AL Central
How can anyone take ESPN seriously. That’s just laughable.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Wow.
Just… wow.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
Well, you can't blame ESPN too much
All they really know is that the Rangers and Angels aren’t in the AL East, because they can’t be leading any division with Boston and New York, obviously. And someone mentioned once that there was a west and central division. So it was a 50/50 shot.
Go Rice Owls!
Yah, no one knew what division Texas was in, so they pulled out a map and said, "Hey, it's right in the middle. Gotta be the Central, right?"
The 40 Trumps All!!!
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall. This was the largest auto I could afford. Should I therefore be made the subject of fun?
Are they Mariners still the "hated Mariners"?
Its been a while since I hated them. Recently, its like saying you hate the Royals, which, unless you are actually a Royals fan, is just a waste of energy. Or do all the division rivals get the “Hated” moniker? Personally, I currently only hate the Angels, the Stinkin’ Yankees, the Tigers (because they pwn us), and the White Sox because of Ozzie and their announcers. That’s about as much hate as I’ve got in me. Any more and the hate would be spread too thin.
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions
I hate them
I hate Ichiro, and I have a strong dislike for Felix.
I just find something about them incredibly… unattractive. It’s hard to say just what it is, but I don’t like their park, their players, their uniforms, or their fans. I kind of feel the same way about the Tigers, it’s just the Tigers ain’t a division rival.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"Young is the Good version of David Eckstein. Grossly overrated because of grit. He can move one step to the right, and a half step to the left whereever you put him in the field." - DJ Cahill
I don't hate Ichiro.
He seems far to blase about playing baseball, but I definitely hate them after the Richie Sexson stuff last year and the way Felix reacted to all that. He came across as a complete punk in all of that.
The guys that I hated (Sexton, Boone) are gone
Its hard to get worked up about them now that they are not really a threat to win the division. If they sweep us this weekend, I’ll reconsider.
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 9, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
With Boone gone,
we don’t here so much about how annoying bat flipping Middle infielders are.
"I saw a soldier try to dig a foxhole with his bare hands. He didn't notice that he'd torn off all his fingernails. I got him out of there quickly; not for his sake, but for ours. Fear is poison in combat...destructive, contagious." - Band of Brothers
one of my fav baseball stories
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-ichirospeech071508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
its a must read.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
That is hilarious!
Especially having watched a good bit of Japanese media over the years, the mental image I have of Ichiro doing that just kills me.
thast why i thought it was funny
i can see the first year he has a translator and shit and just goes nuts lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
A few other things...
Halladay just isn’t happening.
Am I the only one that hopes the M’s stay close for another month or two so they won’t deal a couple guys and reload their farm system?
The Rangers need at least a split with the M’s. King Felix goes tonight against Hunter so that should be the toughest game to win for the Rangers. A split should keep them in first with the Halos playing the Yanks.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Hunter's got this
he’s GOT THIS!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh, AJ!
Upon scanning the lineup Wednesday night and seeing his name in it for the third straight game and the fifth in the last six, the guy who was signed as a part-timer leaned over and whispered with a smile: "You know, I’m playing entirely too much."
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Okay, now that's sig-worthy.
Get on base or die, Salty.
"You know, I’m playing entirely too much." - Andruw Jones
That's hilarious
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
The attribution should be
- Andrew Jones, prior to hitting three HRs against the Hated Angels.
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions
Oops
Supposed to be a reply to LSJ
"What is that — five out of six? The numbers say what they say. They own us." -- Torii Hunter, 07/01/09
by NorCalRangersFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
BA has their midseason Top 25 prospects list up
Saw it on Ben Badler’s Twitter: http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=5456
Smoak is #4 (behind Heyward, Stanton, and Montero).
Feliz is #13. The only pitchers ahead of him are Bumgarner, Tillman, Matusz, and Jarrod Parker.
Perez makes the honorable mention list as part of the “next 25.”
Not too shabby.
"wORLD sEIRES HERE WE COMER!!!!!!!!!"by bigsteve on May 29, 2009 10:21 PM PDT
"Elvis Andrus has just performed a miracle." -Eric Nadel
by WestTxAg06 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Can we trade Neftali Perez for Halladay?
and keep Feliz and Holland…..
Maybe the blue jays are as dumb as these baseball experts
by death of the cool on Jul 9, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
now there's an idea...
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Trading for Halladay
Say we sent a bundle over to TOR for him, we’d have him for 2009 and 2010, right? So in 2010 he either re-signs [doubtful but possible] or leaves via free agency with the Rangers receiving draft comps, right? What would we get – 2 1st-round picks? A 1st-rounder and a supp pick? If so, those picks should sorta weigh into the equation – especially when considering losing young guys like Font or Perez, since the future picks could re-load that age/talent tier on the farm.
1st and a supp
They’d be low in the order though, assuming Roy helps you to a winning season.
If the Rangers are a playoff team, then they can lose their own 1st rounder for signing a Type-A free agent. In that event, the pick a defecting Halladay gives you covers the loss.
So, kinda speculative. What’s less speculative is Halladay fronting your rotation for a year and a half.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 9, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
would Halladay be the best pitcher we've had in the last 15 years?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
By a LONG shot
Halladay has a 154 ERA+ this year (which, strangely, is identical to his ERA+ in 2008).
Quickly looking at baseball-reference.com, we’ve not had a starter with an ERA+ that high in the last 20 years. The closest are Ken Hill’s 145 in 1996 and Kenny Rogers’ 144 in the shortened 1995 season. I only saw a few other seasons that even broke the 130 mark and those were in the 130-135 range. IIRC, that list includes Millwood’s current campaign, Nolan and Guzman in I think 1991, and maybe one or two others.
For the most part, what’s passed for “good pitching” around here has been just decent pitching in the 100-115 range. Halladay is a completely different breed of animal.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
exactly
I was thinking Nolan and maybe Jenkins were better. But maybe not. Maybe he’d be the best?
I’d go after him pretty hard, but no “blow him away” deals…just be in play, have a few names out there
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 9, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Not always a 1st rounder and a supplemental pick for a Type A FA
If the team that signs them is in the bottom half of the standings, you only get a 2nd round draft pick (in the top 1/2) and a sandwich pick.
The 1st and sandwich pick is for a team in the upper half of the standings.
If you take a look at the Fangraphs article about Halladay linked twice above, they DO take the compensation picks into account when valuing what Halladay “should” be worth.
R
Eric Nadel
I don’t really know what all it takes for broadcasters to make the Hall of Fame – if it has any real meaning or if it is just a “gold watch” for broadcasting for so long. He’s far better than many of the guys that make it to Cooperstown, and he deserves to be there. Easily the best broadcaster I’ve ever listened to. Jerry Koosman and his stupid star can take a back seat to Nadel.
Go Rice Owls!
The guy has inimitable talents.
Maybe that’s a good reason, ..
"We're One Nation Under a Groove"
- Ayjayem
by inactive lsb user on Jul 9, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
i love nadal
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
-
"Call up Joaquin Arias? He had a legit spring training and seems to have cooled off a little bit in OKC but still a DH option. " -- kch tx
by knockoutking on Jul 9, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
JD sez:
Him and Nolan still have latitude to look for additions/trades that will add salary
Harry will throw a BP in SEA Saturday
BMac not too far behind Harry
Happy to go back-to-back this weekend, definately a 2nd half option, throwing MLB quality strikes and his CB is very improved
Happy is still a starter long-term, this year they are just looking to capitalize on his talent to help the big club
Oswalt, Pedro, and Hampton worked out of the BP before moving into the roto fulltime (as well as Nolan & all the Earl Weaver pitchers)
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Ticket interview
I was gonna give a heads up, but got too busy. Pardon the grammar/spelling.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Well, that should kill the alleged ambiguity in JD's statements about Happy's future as a starter
Pretty unambiguous right there.
I’ve been wishing for more pitchers to be brought up through the bullpen for a long time now. Weaver did just fine with it. Chad Billingsley started out as a reliever and a spot starter and is now a front-line ace. For all the complaining about Holland being “jerked around”, if my memory serves me correctly Billingsley was constantly shuffling back and forth between starting and relieving roles there for a bit.
"andruw jones hits 3 HRS at LA of Anaheim last nite after hitting zero at LA of LA as Dodger in all of '08. thats nuts." SI_JonHeyman
All of it good to hear
Morbid though it may sound, I’m really glad to hear that about BMac.
The 60-day DL is always a little disturbing.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Jul 9, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
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