Neftali Feliz's change-up grip.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 4, 2009 9:10 PM CDT
42 comments
I was going to make this a FanShot, but it didn't really fit with the options...
I am looking for a screen shot of the close up of Feliz's change-up grip. It was shown after his first strikeout (Adam Kennedy on the 91-mph change-up).
Evan Grant swears that Feliz throws it with a split-finger grip, but I'm not convinced yet. If you've got the skills, please post your screen cap here.
Thanks.
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This is the closest pic I've seen.
Appears to be more of a circle change.
/hotlinked
by BHill on Aug 4, 2009 9:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Evan Grant reported that this change happened in June.
So I’d need something from June or July.
He’s clearly throwing a circle change in this photo, by the way, which is consistent with Grant’s story that Feliz was throwing a circle change until some time in June.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 4, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The grip...
When I saw the replay last night, it almost looked more like a “palm ball” moreso than a split or circle change. But the replay I saw was from behind him, so it was hard to tell.
by Topgun22 on Aug 4, 2009 11:10 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
i tried to look at the grip on the dvr
after Fosse on the A’s broadcast called it a 2 seamer. all i could tell was that the ring finger was on the ball, so i assumed it was a circle change. i posted that above pic earlier today, but yeah that’s obviously a spring training pic.
by SteveP on Aug 4, 2009 11:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I do't think he is
jamming the ball between his fingers and trying to throw an actual splitter. It is probably closer to a two seamer except he just spreads his fingers wide apart.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year
by RangerMad on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I took that photo...
…in October 2007. Here’s a blowup of the hand.
"It's not a good strategy, but it's my strategy." -- Courtney Lucas
by Lucas on Aug 5, 2009 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Awesome photo!
That is not at all a circle change grip.
by FuturePants on Aug 5, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lots of variations of the circle change
by SteveP on Aug 5, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like?
I’m genuinely curious; I thought the thing that defined “circle change” is the fact that you are making a circle with your index and thumb; an “ok” sign, almost.
by FuturePants on Aug 5, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody help me: to achieve proper effect with this pitch, do you release as you would a fastball? Or does it require some wrist-flicking action?
by oc on Aug 5, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you release it like a fastball.
From what I’ve read, pitchers grip changeups harder and hold the ball deeper in the hand, which produces more friction.
Also, that grip is closer to a two-seam fastball grip than a four-seam fastball grip. By throwing the ball with only two seams rotating around it, the buffer zone (if you will) created by the rotation of the ball is smaller.
by jwiscarson on Aug 5, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key is to get your middle finger out from behind the baseball.
It’s your strongest and longest finger, giving you the most power and leverage to release a ball with high velocity and good spin. When you throw a baseball with good arm-speed, it’s always going to be the finger you wind up “finishing” with. So… when you move it off to the side of the ball, the finish is weaker.
Pronation allows the middle finger to basically stay off the ball through release causing the ball to be thrown more by the ring finger.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 5, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty sad
that I read most of that thinking “that’s what she said” would fit in several different spots.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Aug 5, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
NoName
EG got his info from Terry Clark, OKC’s pitching coach. Why do you doubt it?
The biggest change has been his change. In June, Clark suggested Feliz switch from a "circle changeup" (so named because the pinky and thumb form a circle on the outside of the ball) to a split finger grip. The change allowed Feliz to stop pronating his arm so extremely and made it easier for him to maintain the same arm speed he did with his fastball. That adds to the deception of the pitch
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year
by RangerMad on Aug 5, 2009 12:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ahhh, i remember that now
great find. Thx
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm questioning Grant because....
He incorrectly describes how to hold a circle change and implies that pronation is bad which it isn’t.
I’m sure what Clark told him was right. I’m just not sure that Evan got the facts right.
For example, lots of guys throw their change-ups with their fingers split apart, but those pitches aren’t really splitters. Evan has been calling it a splitter. I think the distinction is important.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 5, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's talking the over pronation which might slow down his arm speed?
which makes sense to me.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2009 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
I didn’t catch the pink-thumb description which is wrong for a circle change. And he could possible get the vulcan grip mixed up with the splitter grip.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year
by RangerMad on Aug 5, 2009 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait. . . EG really said pronation is bad?!?!
by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he didn't say those words
his quote is above. It does infer that the amount he was pronating was too much though.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 5, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This seems absurd to me.
Trip, is this really possible? I was under the impression that pronation adds velocity by engaging more muscles/stronger muscles in the delivery.
by jwiscarson on Aug 5, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps too much pronation is in reference to his ability to command the pitch.
Wonderboy, what is the secret of your power? Wonderboy, won't you take me far away from the mucky-muck now. -- Tenacious D
by rooster on Aug 5, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can pronate too early and a pitch will lose effectiveness.
It’s impossible to tell what Grant meant and what Clark (who wasn’t quoted verbatim in the article/post) actually said.
The whole thing is kind of questionable.
And for clarification, Grant didn’t say that pronation was bad, just that it was a problem for Feliz’s circle change.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 5, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i get the feeling that if Feliz was telegraphing and slowing his motion down
it could have been something to do with the fact that he pronated to early if thats what Clark indeed says, which i think is what he is inferring in the story. I tend to believe the coach probably knows what he’s doing and right now, it looks like this switch to the Splitter-esque grip is helping his changeup a ton.
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense.
So, it’s similar to opening your shoulders too early? In other words, breaking the kinetic chain? (If I remember the lingo correctly).
by jwiscarson on Aug 5, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
It basically removes a joint-action from the chain.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 5, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Found this on Youtube
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on Aug 5, 2009 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
August 14, 2008, warming up in Frisco pen
"It's not a good strategy, but it's my strategy." -- Courtney Lucas
by Lucas on Aug 5, 2009 1:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks just like Gagne's change
No?
Purgatory's kind of like the in-betweeny one. You weren't really shit, but you weren't all that great either. Like Tottenham.
by TheJeezus on Aug 5, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like Santana's
he keeps the thumb and index separated a bit
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by randyd on Aug 5, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if we're giving away his secret pitch?
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Aug 5, 2009 2:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well,
I guess we’d just have to tell him that we’re so sorry
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott
by ReallyCreativeScreenName on Aug 5, 2009 3:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't the new change grip...
called a vulcan change. dunno why, but that sticks in my head when i hear split finger change.
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on Aug 5, 2009 7:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
vulcan is a split with the middle and ring fingers being split
by trgordon723 on Aug 5, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
J.P. can take Roy Halladay and shove him up his ass. I’ll take Derek Holland. - AJM
by lonestarJon on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was Danny Patterson's speciality
That's why they call them business sox
by egriffey on Aug 5, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, i remember that very well... and am i misremembering by thinking that Tim Crabtree threw a Vulcan as well?
or was it some other weird pitch that he threw?
"The House That Ruth Built, 85 years old, goes out as The House That Hamilton Knocked Down"
by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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