SI Vault on Dennis Gilbert
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 11:00 AM CDT
93 comments
In the wake of the news that Dennis Gilbert is involved with a group trying to buy the Rangers, I thought I'd offer a history lesson.
For those who weren't following baseball back in the day, in the early 90s, there were two very different agents who dominated the baseball scene...Dennis Gilbert, who was an operator, the high-class, white-shoe agent, and Scott Boras, who was the sharp-elbowed street fighter.
Boras, of course, everyone knows about now, but Gilbert has been out of the news for some time.
In any case, in 1993, Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated had a lengthy, in-depth feature on the two of them, which you can check out here. Good read.
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oh, I think I'm league 1
So maybe Adam just forgot this week. Good thing the worst week is dropped.
Go Rice Owls!
Whoever is "Tiny E's Huge Salt Shaker"
scored 119 this week.
In league 2 we have 5 players w/ 100+ points. Only 1 person in the 90’s.
that is an incredible week of picks
He went 14-2 against the spread for the week.
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
I wish we could wait until we can see how the Padres situation turns out
before being run by a former agent ourselves. It seems like it could be a positive development or a negative one.
Go Rice Owls!
It seems like it could be a positive development or a negative one.
Who can argue with that?
by Anonymous New Guy on Sep 22, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If he's too hands on
Its likely going to only turn out bad.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
It is already pretty negative
All the Padres have been doing is cutting payroll, on the field and everywhere else.
What's the reason behind that? Is Moorad's group just underfunded, or are there other issues?
I think an agent owning the team would be like any other owner in terms of financing—their bio doesn’t matter one iota, what matters is their cash flow.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
Moorad
He won’t say what his financial goal is. He’s real quiet. But when he starts trading any and all veterans while slashing operating budgets, laying off office people, his actions say, he doesn’t want to spend money. The only positive that I can see is he is signing all their draft picks unlike the Rangers. The Padres already had one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, and he drops it some more.
Think the Cubs regret this?
“Two sources say Maddux, without Boras’s knowledge, phoned Cub officials about three days before he signed with Atlanta in December to say he would accept their last offer of $27.5 million for five years. The Cubs told Maddux it was too late; they had earmarked the money for pitchers Jose Guzman, Randy Myers and Dan Plesac. Maddux left for only $100,000 per season more.”
what do we want in an owner?
1. committed to winning with the current management team of Nolan/JD
2. enough operating cash to spend on talent when necessary
3. not dumb, embarrassing, or an attention whore
Is there anything else?
"You can probably stick a fork in the Rangers' playoff chances for 2009." - AJM on 7/26 with the team 4.5 games out
So basically, we're looking for an owner with big bucks
and a tiny ego?
by swampdonkey on Sep 22, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
#1 is essential
- is highly preferable
- doesn’t matter if #1 and #2 are followed (obviously, to some extent a violation of #3 may conflict with #1)
Go Rice Owls!
ugh
stupid formatting.
No. 1 is essential
No. 2 is highly preferable
No. 3 doesn’t matter.
Go Rice Owls!
Maybe add a sub heading to #1
An owner that will always leave the baseball decisions up to the baseball men.
08/03/2009 A day that will live in infamy for the rest of the AL West.
by Michael Cave on Sep 22, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to buy the Rangers.
I’ve got numbers 1 and 3 in spades.
As for number 2, if you’d enclose $5 in a self addressed stamped envelope, then I’m sure that by November I’ll have the operating capital to run the Rangers. :)
Why would I want to send $5 to myself?
Seems like the waste of a stamp and an envelope to me.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 22, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
One more essential
Cannot be rejected by MLB owners. Not necessary to be in the good ole’ boys’ inner circle, but not a clown/crusader/convict/charlatan.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
clown/crusader/convict/charlatan
Which label does Mark Cuban fall under? :)
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
Mitch Moreland -Tom Grieve Rangers Minor League Player of the Year
Martin Perez - Nolan Ryan Rangers Minor League Pitcher of the Year
Heh
Mind reader, you are. Not convict. Maybe not charlatan because he usually believes what he is doing is for some purpose.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Gag me
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
x
Cuban will put a winner on the field.
What is this statement based on?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I'd like to know
Cuban has improved the Mavericks in terms of wins, for sure, but has he really improved their reputation any? They went from a joke of a franchise to a winning franchise that is part circus sideshow.
There are far better owners than Mark Cuban. I could name 10 better sports owners than Cuban without even trying.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
Do any of those guys have interest in owning an MLB franchise?
Could be that Cuban had a specific interest in the Cubs brand. I don’t know. Maybe he doesn’t like the Rangers at $600MM.
Can you name 10 better owners in the NBA? 5? 3?
Does Cuban have any specific interest in the Rangers franchise? Not a bit, he's made that clear
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
Like I said, I don't know.
I was speaking hypothetically of course. Nevertheless, we should all be thankful if he did have interest in buying the team, and if the good ol’ boys invited him into their circle.
I'm not really concerned about the Rangers' "reputation."
I’m concerned about their win total. Cuban will compete with the league’s other big spenders. He’ll put a winner on the field.
His willingness to spend beyond the luxury tax threshold;
aggressive marketing to FAs (he takes better care of his personnel than any other owner in the NBA); and a demonstrable hypercompetitiveness that has manifested itself in virtually every endeavor he’s ever pursued.
Okay
His willingness to spend above the luxury tax threshhold is, I think, a little bit overblown in recent years.
But as far as “aggressive marketing to FAs” goes, the Mavs record in terms of signing FAs has been pretty poor since he took over.
The last part about his “hypercompetitiveness” manifesting itself in virtually every endeavor he’s pursued ignores the fact that he’s basically had one business homerun — broadcast.com — and the rest of his ventures have been a big mixed bag.
And you’ve also got the fact that his Mavs ownership suggests that he’s someone who would want to be heavily involved in the day-to-day decision-making as far as personnel goes, which isn’t a good thing.
I just don’t think that Cuban taking over as Rangers owner is suddenly going to mean great people running the club with unlimited money.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
So the Mavs acquisition doesn't count as a business homerun?
He bought the franchise for $280MM in 2000 and it’s worth, what, $400MM today?
Check my math
But isn’t Hicks investment in the Rangers a proportionally better return?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll guess we'll find out once he sells the motherfucker.
by JDT217 on Sep 22, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
Asking price hasn’t upped Forbes’ estimate of value (yet)
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm
$285M to $466M according to Forbes for Cubes — 63.5% Return
$250M to $405M for Hicks — 38.3% Return
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, Hicks bought a winner playing in a spanking new ballpark...
Cuban bought one of the worst franchises in all of professional sports playing in a dump.
I thought the assumption is...
…that he’s dumped a bunch of money into it over the years, resulting in operating losses from year to year.
If that’s the case, you have to back that out when calculating the return.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Looking up the numbers...
…per Forbes, the Mavs have posted operating losses of $130 million through 2007.
You add that back into the $285 million he paid for the team, you’ve got a $415 million investment that is now worth $466 million.
Although I’d wager that value is a little lower now, and there was a loss again this past season.
Let’s say a similar operating loss of $13 million, and the team being worth $460 million now, and he’s put in $428 million to increase the value of his franchise by $32 million over an almost 10 year period.
Not a home run.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Putting $285 million into a passbook account
earns a better return over 10 years, but wouldn’t be as much fun.
The problem for you, Adam, is that those numbers buttress, rather than undermine, my point about his hypercompetitive nature.
Namely, he’s willing to run annual operating losses in order to put a winner on the court/field.
How is that a problem for me?
You asked why buying the Mavs wasn’t a home run, in terms of ROI. I explained why.
Has he been willing to spend money to improve the team? Sure. Not “whatever it takes” to make the team better, as some have said, but no question, when it comes to spending money on the franchise, he’s one of the best owners in the NBA.
Would he be willing to do that if he owned the Rangers? Not necessarily, particularly given that he doesn’t have the long-time emotional investment in the Rangers that he does with the Mavs. He’s a Cubs fan, not a Rangers fan.
I certainly don’t think there’s much reason to believe he’d just spend whatever it takes to make the Rangers a winner, as a few folks have suggested.
And I do think that there’s a real concern that if he’s going to spend money on the organization like it is his new plaything, then he’s not likely to be as hands-off on terms of decision-making as folks here would probably want him to be. His history with the Mavs certainly suggests that wouldn’t be the case.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Guess he's a Pirates fan too...
I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. If Cuban were interested in buying the team at $600MM, I doubt he’d suddenly reverse the trend of spending money to put a winner out there.
And I think you’re giving short shrift to the transformation he ushered in as Mavs owner. That franchise was truly was one of the worst franchises in all of professional sports. Attendance was awful. The FO was awful. The team was awful. They were the laughing stock of the NBA. 10 years later, and they’re one of the winningest franchises in the league (and a handful of historically bad calls from a 2005 title). Go the AAC for a Mavs game and a Stars game on back-to-back nights. Tell me which experience you enjoy more.
I think your concern about him exercising inordinate control over personnel decisions is legitimate; but even for an ego the size of Cuban’s, winning comes first. He’s not Jerry Jones.
x
I’m familiar with where the Mavs were when Cuban bought them, and where they are now, although they appear to be heading into NBA first round exit/late lotto pick no-man’s land for the foreseeable future.
As for this:
I think your concern about him exercising inordinate control over personnel decisions is legitimate; but even for an ego the size of Cuban’s, winning comes first. He’s not Jerry Jones.
I’m sure Jerry would tell you winning comes first with him, as well. Both Jerry and Cuban, though, seem to think that winning is more likely with him having a major say in on the field/on the floor personnel issues.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that's because he's always over the luxury tax
But as far as "aggressive marketing to FAs" goes, the Mavs record in terms of signing FAs has been pretty poor since he took over.
You can’t sign FA’s when you’re over the tax…
His willingness to spend above the luxury tax threshhold is, I think, a little bit overblown in recent years.
Huh? His first full season as owner was 2000-2001. The Salary Cap that year was $35.5M. The Mavs had a salary of $51M that year and have only gone up.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
x
You can’t sign FA’s when you’re over the tax…
Yes, you can.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
if you want to get literal, yes you can use the mid-level exception and sign your own FA’s.
No rebuttal about Cuban not going over the limit on his salaries?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Not going over the limit?
Did I ever say the Mavs weren’t consistently over the cap? I think the majority of teams are over the cap year-in and year-out.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
What does this mean then?
His willingness to spend above the luxury tax threshhold is, I think, a little bit overblown in recent years.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Also
I’m aware that the Salary Cap and the Luxury Tax threshold are two different amounts.
The point is Cuban has been well above both basically since he has owned the team.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
In Marketing alone
he’d vastly improve the franchise.
But, he’s not interested, so it’s a moo point
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 22, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe I got the wrong impression
But wasn’t there rumbling when he injected interest in the Cubs that the MLB owner’s would reject him?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, they did.
And took the 900MM from Ricketts, rather than the 1.3B Cuban put on the table.
If they did it a second time, I’d put my money on MLB losing their antitrust exemption…
It wasn't just MLB that decided
I thought the bankruptcy court was pretty heavily involved.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
A rich dude...
who will stay the fuck out of the current FO’s way.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Intelligent enough to understand the merits of spending big in the draft & LA
Although I guess that’s a part of #2.
by LiamP on Sep 22, 2009 1:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
must have
a buh donk a donk… must not steal my stuff…
Name the TV show…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
Hello Win Column!!!
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Sep 22, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions
Not that I've seen
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Where's that guy that has the inside scoop?
With the owner, he should know details
by Mark from OC on Sep 22, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I've only heard about this guy and the weak interest from McDavid.
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
maybe we can convice
boone pickens to give the rangers OSU money
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
convince
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Maybe we can do a "wind farm" and "strikeouts" tie-in to entice him...
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Hilarious.
"[Font} doesn't turn 19 until the end of May and his heater can already hit 99 on the gun. That's baseball porn." - Jason Parks
by hightowersmith on Sep 23, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Cards Voided the Contract
of 16 year old OF prospect Warner Mateo, because of eye issues…
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
I'll bet the Giants would like to void Angel Villalona's
contract. $2.1 Million deal in 2006 and now in jail, charged with murder.
Wild thing????
Maybe he’ll tear up the prison league..
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Whoa, when did that happen? Villalona has been promised to be a future stud for a couple of years now
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
Rangers FB
Former agent Dennis Gilbert, who now works for the White Sox, has apparently formed a group of heavy hitters to bid on the Rangers.
* Gilbert is not considered a serious contender, according to sources.
* There are between 4-6 groups who have expressed serious interest.
* There have been rumors that Sandy Alderson, former GM of the Athletics and president of the Padres, is getting a group together.
* Nolan Ryan apparently is not in the bidding.
* The process could go into next season.
* Tom Hicks still wants to be involved and it appears he is trying to find a way to keep at least a part of the team.
* Major League Basebal is hoping the sale price will be over $500 million although there are still several moving parts including the ballclub, the Balpark lease and the property around the Ballpark.
* George Bush is not interested in getting involved.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
Sandy Alderson? Pass
I don’t want anything to do with the debacle of this franchise in San Diego anywhere near the Rangers. Not to mention that JD will have the ever-present threat of losing his job to DePodesta.
Go Rice Owls!
If JD gets fired for DePodesta
I will go kill someone out there.
The 2009 Texas Rangers offense: sigh...
by Kinslerhomer on Sep 22, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Sandy Alderson
He’s one of the most well-regarded and well-respected execs in the business.
In fact, I’m hard-pressed to think of someone who would be a better option in terms of buying the franchise, assuming the money people backing him have the necessary financial resources.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
So, he'd basically be the President ...
Bye bye Nolan
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
I don't know if he would be or not
I don’t know if Alderson being involved would be inconsistent with Ryan staying on board.
But in terms of having someone smart who knows what they are doing in place, Alderson is likely as good as it would get.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't know either..
But I don’t see what role he would have, as “head of ownership group but without being a big investor” translates to "president " in my mind
The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano
Alderson is bright enough
To hang a CEO tag on hiself, or Chairman, and keep Nolan the institutional face of the franchise.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
That's an interesting name, his baseball credentials are as good as any potential suitor
JBlmaknee says that means Nolan would go bye-bye, but not necessarily. Remember that John Henry, Tom Werner, Larry Lucchino, AND Theo Epstein all manage to co-exist up in Beantown.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
And that is a more difficult combo
Than you’d think possible. But puts a winner on the field.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 22, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
No joke, I am fascinated by that front office dynamic
There are a lot of strong personalities in that front office. Of course, Theo left for what, a month, but they came to terms again and everyone seems to coexist just fine now.
Not to mention the fact that they employ the consulting services of the likes of Bill James.
"Feldman and Feliz and and pray for…infectious disease?"--TheJeezus on Sep 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT
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