Q&A with Maury Brown on the Rangers ownership situation
Maury Brown, of the excellent Biz of Baseball blog, graciously agreed to take a few minutes out and do a Q&A with me about the situation regarding Tom Hicks, the Rangers financial situation, and the ongoing mess that we've been reading about the past several months...
Questions and answers after the jump...
AJM: Word is that the sale of the Rangers won't happen this winter, and will likely drag into the 2010 season. Why should a sale take so long, given that it has been known for months now that Hicks would be selling the team?
Brown: The sales process, especially in this economy, is exceptionally difficult. The credit markets have tightened, as well. The other issue has been whether Hicks is going to sell the controlling interest. He'd like to stay on, which may or may not be of interest to potential bidders. That, and the potential bidders have to do their due diligence. The first set of "books" on the club's financials went out in January from Merrill Lynch, and since then, the club has sent out a second set of books, with William Morris Endeavor, Bank of America Merrill Lynch and Perella Weinberg as advisers. When you put it all together, any sale that can be completed within a year would be considered "fast" at this point in time, let alone the complex situation with the Rangers. If the deal gets completed by Spring Training, I'd say to any Rangers fan, be happy..
AJM: What is your understanding of the Texas Ranger franchise's current financial situation?
Brown: Hicks is under heavy debt; Rangers as well, but not nearly to the extent that Hicks Sports Group is (he missed a $10 million payment to creditors in late March). While the Rangers were given a $15 million line of credit, since that point, there has been little else heard regarding the need for another infusion.
AJM: Although the Rangers had huge payrolls in the early part of this decade, the last several years, they've been a low-payroll team with a pretty good media deal playing in one of the biggest markets in America, and have reportedly broken even or made a small profit each of the last several years.. So how did this franchise end up in the situation it is in?
Brown: In terms of player payrolls, with exceptions (large revenue making clubs such as the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, et al), ownership will increase the amount in player payroll to make a stab at sustained efforts to place high in the standing, often times at expense of the bottom line. Many forget, but when the Blue Jays had their World Series glory, they had the highest level of player payroll in the league. The Orioles used to have a highest player payroll in the league, higher than the Yankees at one point (late '90s). It's the inability to sustain high player payroll that often gives fans heartburn, but in reality, is a normal cycling of up and down. Other examples are the Arizona Diamondbacks, and Cleveland Indians who had high player payrolls in early 2000s. Some interesting trivia to consider that may, or may not have relevance to the increased payroll and television ratings in the early 2000s: When Alex Rodriguez was signed to his record contract by the Rangers in 2001, television ratings for the Rangers declined. When he left in Feb of 2004, ratings went back up.
AJM: Supposedly, MLB had to loan the Rangers money so that the team could make payroll. Why would this be necessary, and is not uncommon for MLB to have to advance a team funds, or is this an exceptional situation?
Brown: The Rangers have said that they took the $15 million advance, but that it was not for club payroll. At the last Winter Meetings, I asked Nolan Ryan how the economy was impacting business for the Rangers. He said that it was tough to measure how much revenues were coming in due to slow season ticket renewals. Extrapolating on that, a club that is seeing a cash flow problem that may not have been in place before the economy tanked, may need the cash loans to breach the gap that might be covered more easily in solid economic times -- it's easier to say that money will be coming in, and therefore, margins are broader. In terms of whether this is an exceptional situation, in 2002, there were rumors that two clubs needed loans to meet player payroll. The last team to be in serious shape was the Orioles in 1993. At that time, Eli Jacobs filed for bankruptcy protection, and the team was eventually sold to Peter Angelos.
AJM: A couple of D/FW area columnists have painted the Rangers as now being a ward of the MLB state, basically in the same situation the Expos were in before they moved to Washington, with MLB having control over every move the Rangers make and dictating how much money can be spent. In particular, it has been reported that at the end of the day MLB refused to allow the Rangers to offer first round pick Matt Purke more than slot money ($2.6 million), while the front office has indicated that they offered Purke $4 million. How involved is MLB in the Rangers' situation right now, in terms of the Rangers making moves? Is MLB going to be able to dictate whether the Rangers can sign free agents and how much they can offer?
Brown: I think these stories have overblown the situation. The offer for Purke was well over slot (according to Jim Callis' calculations, the recommended slot was $1.602 million). I think the decision was based upon that, and had little, if nothing to do with the financial situation that the Rangers are under. The reason I say that is the Rangers have spent over $3 million in the Latin American free agents.
AJM: The most worrisome thing for Rangers fans would seem to be the Rangers having payroll dropped to the $50 million range, which would mean moving more expensive pre-free-agent players such as Frankie Francisco, C.J. Wilson, and Ian Kinsler. Doing that would seem to be counter-productive from a franchise value standpoint, since doing a sell-off on the heels of a surprisingly successful 2009 season would likely alienate the fanbase and reduce the franchise's value, but the idea of payroll dropping that low has been broached. Is that a realistic fear for Rangers fans, or is it reasonable to assume that payroll will be similar to, or just a little lower than, 2009?
Brown: Good question. Worrisome? Possibly. I think you have to look at Rangers situation and take into account the overall economy. There's belt tightening going on with a number of clubs. But, all that said, would the Rangers have been more likely to be more aggressive this upcoming off-season than with the sale process in play? It's certainly possible. The club sale places many decisions in limbo. This isn't something unique to the Rangers sale; look at the Cubs with the Peavy deal that got scuttled.
AJM: What do you expect the ultimate sale price of the franchise to be, and do you have any thoughts as to who you think the favorites are among the prospective groups?
Brown: I'd look for a price of between $510-$550 million. The Rangers don't own an RSN, nor their ballpark. The lease they have, however, works in their favor. As for who will wind up winning the day, that seems very much in flux. If there is one thing that MLB is known recently for doing, it's working to cobble together ownership groups that reflect a local appeal, while having an executive structure that fits within MLB's ownership dynamic. I think that based upon that, the idea of Nolan Ryan being a part of the deal could be highly likely. From that perspective, I see Chuck Greenberg as a possibility. The rumor of Sandy Alderson having interest is intriguing, but only insofar as his ability to gain the needed capital to pull a competitive bid off.
1 recs |
127 comments
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Comments
I'd like to see Hicks' filthy fingerprints
Completely off this team, but it looks like he’s definitely going to continue to have some percentage of ownership. What a messed up decade it’s been with him as owner.
by GhostofGaryHogeboom on Sep 28, 2009 12:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I'm still waiting to see a clear example of where Hicks screwed us over
and “not ponying up for Juan Cruz” is not an answer.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Sep 28, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our payroll is 65MM
Which is criminally low. He screwed us over by not spending enough money to put together a title contender when all of the (young, controllable) pieces were/are in place.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id like to know a specific example of a player Hicks refused to go after that would have made the difference you are talking about
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Sep 28, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raul Ibanez, Trevor Hoffman, ManRam, Ryan Dempster, Bobby Abreu...
When you have infinity dollars, you get players like these. And you win. More often than not, high payroll = Winner.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah howd those high payroll teams of the early part of this decade do?
High payroll does not guarantee anything. There are maybe a handful of players over the last 5 years who we could have legitimately had a shot at that we didn’t get that could have made a tangible difference other than on the payroll spreadsheet.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Sep 28, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does not guarantee anything...
But there is a statistically significant positive correlation between payroll in wins.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Raul Ibanez, Ryan Dempster, and Trevor Hoffman, we should have gone after?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And didn't we offer a contract to Hunter?
And we tried to extend Tex.
And Vlad? Are you saying we should have gone after him in 2004?
Don’t forget GMJ. We didn’t offer him a contract, either.
I’m glad we didn’t offer a 3/30 deal to Bradley. Now we may getting him for pennies on the dollar.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barry Zito
If only Hicks had tried to sign him.
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Sep 28, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you would have if he were doing well.
GMJ, too.
You can’t sign them all. Or I guess with infinity dollars you do, you just DFA them when they don’t perform. Image how good your AAA team would be. Hell, with infinite money, you could stack your minor league system from top to bottom with MLB stars.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teams with infinity dollars...
…are more worried about winning at the big-league level than stocking their farm system with toolsy outfielders and depth arms. They don’t fetishize 18-year-old Venezuelan kids with plus plus gyroballs.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are a moron.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
by TxStCa on Sep 28, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have posted little here to disprove his point
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 28, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teams that spend more money win more games.
Tom Hicks should spend more money.
There are players Tom Hicks could have acquired but did not that would hypothetically have made our team better.
What’s wrong with any of that?
P.S. Socrates has been misquoted in your signature.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
indeed you’re a moron.
P.S. That’s not a misquote. If you’d like to talk Greek history with me then I will really make you look like a fool.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heheh
My translation of Diogenes states as follows:
“There is only good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Simmer down, college boy.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then...
I’m sure you know that Diogenes was not a student of Socrates, but of Antisthenes who was the student of Socrates.
I can give you many sources for the translation that I quoted.
Now you have failed in baseball and historical logic. Congrats.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, I didn't know that.
But my translation of Lives of the Eminent Philosophers quotes Socrates as I stated it.
Your translation obviously sucks.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha...
I believe you left a word out of the title of your source.
If you are referring to The Lives and OPINIONS of Eminent Philosophers.
In which most historians state that you need to take the quotes of Diogenes the Cynic with a grain of salt because he doesn’t cite his sources.
But again, I’m sure you already knew that too.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, the quote is both question-begging and naive.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
Socrates was naive.
And you have shown your powerful knowledge now in both baseball and history. You are wise.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the quote
Evinces a clear understanding of the nature of good and evil? If so, why?
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not meant to you you fool...
does anyone have the clear understanding of good and evil?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
How about a plausible account of the nature of good and evil?
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh...
plausible. Plausible to who?
Let me guess. You’re a strongly religious person who has all the answers to the questions, or at least the plausible ones, right?
In which case I’m done with this conversation. I told you I’d make you look like a fool if you wanted to go this route on the Socrates quote. Now you are going of base and telling me it’s naive. Clearly you should have been alive in his time so you could have taught him a thing or two.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop with the strawmen, dude.
I think the quote fails to provide either an accurate descriptive or normative account of the nature of good and evil.
If you want to make me look like a fool, then defend the content of the quote. Otherwise, move on.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
and again, who are you to criticize anything that Socrates said?
There’s no strawman here. Just someone trying to rationalize with someone else who is critiquing one of the greatest philosophers in history.
You want a short synopsis of what he’s saying. Learning = Good and Not learning = Bad.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your gloss
Is facile and wrong. Keep studying.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Keep studying"...
No problem. Always have and always will.
Of course it appears you have much more to learn as well, as you’re proving his quote to be quite accurate.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 29, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offer Hunter MORE money
Sign Vlad in 2004
I didn’t say we should have signed GMJ
How fortuitous that we can get Bradley back for pennies on the dollar
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screw Hunter
He was overpaid to start with.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Infinity dollars
Who cares if you overpay? Right? Infinity dollars.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, why not?
Ibanez > Murphy
Hoffman > pretty much everyone else in our already very good bullpen
Ryan Dempster > Whomever we’re running out there in the fifth spot of the rotation
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you positing this as a hypothetical...
…in the sense that, yeah, if we had an unlimited payroll, we could have gone out there and signed those guys and the team would be better?
Or are you saying that Tom Hicks and the Rangers should have gone out and signed those guys this past offseason?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The former.
All I’m saying is that if we spent money like the other big market clubs, we could have put a title contender together for this year and the next 3-4 years.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And still not necessarily won a title
See the Cubs, Yankees, and Mets.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, ok...
Let’s just be mediocre because spending more money won’t necessarily net us a title.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one said the Rangers want to be mediocre
They are just going about achieving their goals differently than the Yankees.
You have to live within your means. The DFW area will not support a payroll of $200+ million.
And Hicks is not Loria. He’s not pocketing millions of dollars and putting a crappy team on the field. He wants a championship. He tried to buy one earlier and that didn’t work. Now he is trying to build one from within.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
They are going about achieving their goals “differently” than the Yankees if, by “differently,” you mean “in a less effective manner.”
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the only manner available to them.
The Yankees are able to outspend everyone else because they make more money then everyone else.
You can’t really believe that the Rangers could support a $200+ million payroll. They couldn’t even afford the $100+ million payroll they had during the A-Rod years.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think maybe we're adopting two different operational definitions of "afford."
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine means don't spend what you don't have
What does yours mean?
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Run operating losses if necessary to put a winner on the field...
…but avoid personal bankruptcy.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, man.
Just use your imagination.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem passionate enough
that I wish I could follow your line of thinking.
But I can’t.
by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 28, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do more drugs.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 29, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Team's up for sale
Send in your bid and have at it.
by mgb5 on Sep 28, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm imagining
this is a bit.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Sep 28, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The best thing Tom Hicks has done
is stop spending money and losing draft picks for players like Juan Gonzalez, Chan Ho Park, Todd Van Poppel, Jay Powell ….
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 28, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, the "I wish we'd spend more money"
meme is nice and all. Obviously everyone wishes their club had the Yankees payroll. But Hicks hasn’t exactly run this team like the Florida Marlins either.
I don’t think 65 million is “criminally low”. It obviously isn’t in the top 25% of the league. But it isn’t at the bottom either. It is a mid-market pay scale for a mid-market club (yeah, yeah, metropolitan area size blah blah… it is a mid-market club). The least competitive years were years that Hicks poured way too much money into. And we’re surprised that he stopped opening up the pocketbook to needless free agents after the 2000-2003 signing debacles?
Go Rice Owls!
by JBImaknee on Sep 28, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is absolutely, unequivocally, without a doubt, criminally low.
It’s in the bottom 3rd of the league. Teams with higher payrolls this year:
Royals
Reds
Rockies
Brewers
Tigers (!) (by quite a bit)
Indians
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How'd that work out for them?
Except for the Rockies, the Rangers have a better record than each of the teams you mention.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I picked those teams because they all play in fly-over country/small markets...
Other teams with higher payrolls than the Rangers:
NYY
Bos
LAAA
LAD
Phi
STL
What do those teams (and the Tigers) have in common?
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are all more profitable than the Rangers?
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are all (with the possible exception of Det) going to the postseason.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are the top 6 teams in attendance this year
Meaning, they have more revenue coming in. So they can spend more money on payroll.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cot's has us at 19th
Ahead of Cincy, Colorado, and K.C. on your list.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My list came from ESPN
Is it not accurate?
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
$550M?
I think that’s pretty optimistic… If I were Hicks, I would jump at that in a heartbeat. But then again, if I were Hicks, I wouldn’t have purchased either the Stars or Liverpool, so the point is moot, I guess.
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com
by WhipSmart on Sep 28, 2009 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Liverpool...
Is Hicks’ best sports franchise investment.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he put a lien on the Rangers to do it
at least that’s how I understand it…
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
Dykstra has all the money!
ElectricOkra.com
by WhipSmart on Sep 28, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering...
How valuable the franchise is worldwide (4th most valuable at the moment) and how much higher the value could go IF and WHEN he’s able to secure the necessary funding to build a new ground to replace Anfield…Yes, Liverpool is his “best” investment.
Still, I’d be doing cartwheels if he was bought out. I imagine some Scousers would be doing some, too.
by Brandon Bibb on Sep 28, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every Liverpool supporter would.
Thankfully, Hicks is stubborn enough to cling on to his half.
by LiamP on Sep 28, 2009 12:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Anything that's bad for Liverpool is fine by me.
by LiamP on Sep 28, 2009 3:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff
good questions and clear answers, though it still leaves a lot unknown of course. It’s going to be frustrating to watch this unfold at a glacial pace but…
Just imagine having to watch this unfold with a terrible farm system and not so much young talent already on the big league club. I can’t see why the Rangers wouldn’t be a very attractive property as they enter a contention window with a ton of young, cheap talent here or coming soon. Contending club + low payroll = potential profit machine, especially in a market with so much potential.
As far as signing free agents and payroll, I think the Rangers can sign players as long as they don’t make the kind of deal that leaves people scratching heads, like signing Bradley did for Chicago last winter. Any prospective owner has to be hoping the club does what it needs to stay competitive.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Sep 28, 2009 12:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought the questions were good
but the answers didn’t seem to add anything to the speculations that have been bandied about for the past several weeks. Simply put, there just wasn’t anything new or revealing emanating from the interview.
by swampdonkey on Sep 28, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't really expect anything new,
but given the sky is falling hyperventilation of some of the columns locally, I appreciated the clarification without rampant speculation.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Sep 28, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my point was
that I didn’t receive any “claifications” from the interview.
by swampdonkey on Sep 28, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you used to post here under a different username?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 28, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was my thought
This whole crap about the Rangers being the ward of MLB was started by someone in the DFW media (I think it was Galloway; could be wrong) and is now taken as gospel. Good to see someone take the wind out of that idea’s sail.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
by WyoRanger on Sep 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, thankfully
But wait ‘til tomorrow, some tool will bring it up again as if it’s written in stone.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Sep 28, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
New stadium for a new owner?
Let’s say the new Rangers owner does want his or her own ballpark and the team’s own sports network. The lease is up in Arlington in 2022, but what’s to prevent the new owner from threatening to leave if the team doesn’t get a new ballpark? You can make an argument that with the Cowboys now the big deal in Arlington, this is an opportunity for the new owner to tell Dallas, “Build me a ballpark or I go to Las Vegas.”
Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?
by 3744nsheffield on Sep 28, 2009 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with all that
MLB isn’t real supportive of teams switching markets, due to concerns about losing their antitrust exemption. Especially when a team is mid-pack attendance, like the Rangers are.
You aren’t seeing a new ballpark til the early-mid 2020s at the earliest. Just deal with it.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 28, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i, personally, really like the RBiA
although in Arlington, it is now literally, overshadowed by the new Cowboy ’space ship" stadium. I know a dome or retractable roof would be nice during the heat of the summer, but I think it would also lack the character that our current stadium has.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Sep 28, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
there is any doubt that open air stadiums are nicer on good days than any of the convertidomes. I think most of the convertidomes seem pretty sterile.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 28, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
The new stadium in Seattle looks great during the day.
by northtexan95 on Sep 28, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been to a game there
I’m fairly underwhelmed, especially when comparing it to PNC, or PacBell(whatever it is called today) or any of the other dozens of good new open air stadiums.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 28, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love the Giants Park...
Damn is it small though.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 28, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small is good
in ballparks IMO. Who wants to sit miles from the action.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 28, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need a ballpark with a freaking dome.
What we need is a ballpark much more centrally located to the population.
Put a ballpark in downtown Dallas with a Cuban-esque owner (in terms of desire to win) and you’d have 35,000+ in attendance every night.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
by Josey Wales on Sep 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about that
The people who live in and around downtown cant afford to go for the most part
I’m not saying that a downtown stadium wouldnt be nice, I’m just not sure attendance would spike that much
by BEW on Sep 28, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?????
All of the money in the DFW metroplex starts in Uptown and extends North on 75. That’s why you put the ballpark downtown.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bass brothers and about 70 horse country owners
Around Weatherford plus a few thousand in Southlake, Colleyville, and Keller want a word with you. Talk about whimsy.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 28, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not really suggesting anything close to an equivalent concentration of wealth, are you?
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m referring to a relative absence of plastic, chrome, and self-adulating bullshit artists.
In reality, concentration be damned, there may be more day to day discretionary cash north of Beltline and east of I-35E, but not a lot of it goes for baseball.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I suppose they fill the AAC with a bunch of Michigan transplants for all those hockey games.
As for the douchebag factor, I don’t disagree, but it’s irrelevant.
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We basically agree on mode
But not necessarily method. Most of N. Texas (regardless of economic stratification) is all about football, and many of the baseball devotees do in fact come in from elsewhere (and the NYY and Sawx fans keep their former allegiance at least warm).
My feelings may be off kilter in this matter, but when I moved here for good some 23 years ago, i was a great deal more comfortable on the Tarrant side of things, for multiple reasons. That incoming bias hasn’t gone away, and the Dallas politics that bumped the Cowboys west and placed the Rangers in the center metro location really hasn’t changed.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 28, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The happiest day of my life in Dallas was when I moved out of that stupid fucking uptown townhouse and into a house in Munger Place.
And, yeah, football will always be king. But Dallas douchebags are a bunch of frontrunners…
by JDT217 on Sep 28, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo...
People in Dallas weren’t filling up Reunion Arena every night when the Mavericks were the NBA’s doormat… Now that they’re a good basketball team on an annual basis, they fill up the arena…
Having the ballpark in Dallas wouldn’t change much… If the Rangers aren’t winning games and competing on an annual basis, people wouldn’t go, regardless of stadium location. If they sustain some success people will come… That’s the nature of sports in this town.
by N41D on Sep 28, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh what?
residents of Uptown, Downtown, Turtle Creek, Highland Park, Cedars etc have some of the highest incomes in the metromess, not to mention the wealthy citizens of Collin County will have direct access via DNT, I35, and Central Expressway
And mankind is naught but a single nation - Qu'ran 2:213
by devsr on Sep 28, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The simple fact is the ballpark is 15 years old
And in great shape both physically and aestetically (sp?)
Back 17/18 years ago when a new ballpark being discussed Arlington gave a great deal to the Rangers, downtown Dallas was crap, there was no Victory plaze, no AAC, no DART rail, I think Central Expressway was either the old way or just being rebuilt, Collin County was nothing but farm towns, etc.
The Rangers aren’t getting a new stadium for 15 more years at the earliest. Any talk about where one should be or could be is retarded IMO because its not happening.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Sep 28, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are ways to boost attendance...
much more economically than moving the team to Dallas.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
by benmor78 on Sep 28, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooker night at the ballpark.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 28, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm making the roadtrip for that one.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
by DJCahill on Sep 29, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's where antitrust exemption comes in
No owner can move a team unless he/she has MLB approval. MLB wants a team in DFW because it truly is a large market. A new owner won’t be able to threaten jack.
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
by WyoRanger on Sep 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
an owner cannot just move a team with a threat to the city
MLB has alot to say in those matters
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
by NothinG on Sep 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Threatening to move the team to Las Vegas
would sort of be the equivalent of a Grand Prix driver threatening to leave the Ferrari race team and go to Volkswagon.
by swampdonkey on Sep 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or leaving F1 to go to NASCAR
Say “Hello” JP.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Sep 28, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
You can make an argument that with the Cowboys now the big deal in Arlington, this is an opportunity for the new owner to tell Dallas, "Build me a ballpark or I go to Las Vegas."
Because a city with construction at a standstill, 50% drop in real estate prices, a double-digit foreclosure rate, and a metropolitan population about a quarter the size of D/FW is really such an attractive relocation destination.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't answer your question
With such a low payroll the past couple years, and reports of the team being slightly profitable… why did we have to borrow from MLB to meet payroll?
I assume because Hicks pulled Ranger money out to pay some other bills?
"There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no independence quite so important, as living within your means" - Calvin Coolidge
by hubcityraider on Sep 28, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't to meet payroll
Per Brown’s answer, and local rumor.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 28, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In another interview,
Hicks said they got $6mil from MLB not $15mil, but I guess that’s a moot point.
I’m not sure $$$ will be a big issue this off season anyway…….maybe for a middle of the order high OBP guy, but little else. No top FA pitcher is coming here, and I doubt they chase one now anyway. Maybe Smoak is ready a bit sooner so the OBP guy might be moot too.
Marlon Byrd’s situation could be the biggest of the off-season, especially since Josh can’t seem to stay healthy and Borbon hasn’t looked like a CF to me.
by tklawless on Sep 28, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Extended $15MM but only has used $6MM
Remember Red, hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies.
by WyoRanger on Sep 28, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Andy holds a grudge
vs the Dodgers today, 5-5, 2 HR, 6 RBI
by tyd3311 on Sep 28, 2009 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I really don't mean for this call to spend more money to be a bit.
I just don’t understand why folks who are so quick to criticize Wash, JD, the players, etc. seem not to be thoroughly scandalized by the payroll we have this year and the payroll we’re likely to have next year. A lot of folks talk about moves we can make in the offseason as if the low payroll was a given without examining whether the low payroll is justifiable in the first instance. It isn’t. It’s criminally low. It’s a scandal.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand and empathize with your point
About spending for good purpose. However, when it comes to on-field management, I have a simile you might like. Giving talent to Wash to employ in the game of baseball is like turning a trust fund over to an offspring who cannot add, subtract, multiply, or divide. His life will look good from afar, but up close you can see how the fund is being diluted by making bad choices.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 29, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with AJM on this one
I doubt that the on-field manager has much of an impact on the W-L bottom line.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three games a year
is +6 in the standings. You decide.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 29, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
But it’s hardly a justification for keeping payroll low that you’ve hired a manager that you can’t trust with a bunch of high-priced talent.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think...
That the better the talent on the field, the less influence the manager has over outcome. When Sabathia do what he do, and Teixeira do what he do, then things generally turn out fine.
by JDT217 on Sep 29, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 games per year?
Is there anything to support that? And if true, wouldn’t that apply to everybody and tend to be a wash (no pun intended) in the end?
by swampdonkey on Sep 29, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where I got that
In reading six or seven writers (the usual baseball frenetics) plus NMLR and LSB over several years, but it was cited in discussion. I thought about it, and just personal opinion thought that a manager positively or negatively affecting 3 to 4 games a year is probably observational, not grounded on data. And it shouldn’t be grounded on data, because setting lineups and making in-game decisions is both subjective and situational.
Here’s my opinion, also observational and not sourced nor grounded: I think a manager can affect upwards of ten games per year, and like any trend, yes will even out to a near wash – but not in one season. Maybe over several seasons.
I get ten plus from the following:
- wrong on pitching substitutions for a starter
- defensive switch not made or producing an error
- pinch hitting a worse matchup than the static lineup provides
- sequencing hitters in inappropriate lineup order
- defensive positioning that results in runs allowed
- reliance on a burned down reliever
- sitting a player who appears to be hitting optimally
- signaling a play that can’t be executed when opponents expect it
- keeping a player either unfit for duty or injured or fatigued in a lineup
- not addressing consistent misplay
- packing in too many sunflower seeds and having to spit whole ones (joke)
Not every instance of any of the above causes a loss, or even runs against. However, I believe all field managers experience some of the above multiple times in the course of a year. And despite one’s efforts to not “make the same mistake” repeatedly, people can and do repeat previously failed actions, particularly if excited or stressed. So if there are 30-40 slipups per year, and half of them result in either failed execution or opponent success, and half of those result in runs against, and more than half of those result in losses, then somewhere between 3 and 10 games are lost in a season.
There are managers who are more meticulous than other managers. In this sense, meticulous means they are fairly cold blooded about the list of things above, and tend to make far fewer bad decisions than other managers. No it isn’t quantified, that I know about, but Mike Scosia (for instance) has a reputation within the game for avoiding mistakes – both of instinct and of situational decision making.
Long answer, didn’t know how to condense it.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912) also -
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance."
~Ambrose Bierce
by Ed Coffin on Sep 29, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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