Baseball-Intellect Top 15 Rangers Prospects

by WORV on Jan 26, 2010 11:25 PM CST

Another prospect list...

1. Neftali Feliz - A-

2. Martin Perez - A-

3. Justin Smoak - A-

4. Tanner Scheppers - B

5. Robbie Ross - B-

6. Michael Main - B-

7. Danny Gutierrez - B-

8. Wilmer Font - B-

9. Mitch Moreland - B-

10. Kasey Kiker - B-/C+

11. Miguel Velazquez - C+

12. Jurickson Profar - C+

13. Robert Erlin - C+

14. Max Ramirez - C+

15. Braden Tullis - C+

"Texas has been stockpiling talent like no other team in baseball and they are creating a true pipeline of young, cheap talent that they will reap the benefits from for years to come."

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Comments

How can you possibly rank Feliz and Smoak the same?

by BuckyB on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 AM CST reply actions

You think Smoak is just the

Bees-Knees and have a few ?s about Feliz’s ability to command his curve and chg/split thing as a starter?

I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan

by FirebatM3 on Jan 27, 2010 12:29 AM CST up reply actions

What's your reason not to

like an A- for both prospects? I’ve seen no scouting report that doubts Smoak’s talent, despite some nervous ninnies around here who are worried about his AAA stats.

Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.

by t ball on Jan 27, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions

Don't get me wrong, I love Smoak

But Feliz is 21, a pitcher, and absolutely dominated a half season in the bigs

Smoak is 23, a 1bman, and dominated AA before struggling at AAA.

I think Smoak is the man, but to say that his value is identical to Feliz’s in prospect-dom, I think, is wrong

by BuckyB on Jan 27, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

Ok, that's a pretty simplistic way to put it.

The situation is a bit more complex than that. They are both top prospects, and you seem to be forgetting Smoak’s injury and that not one scout or prognosticator is the least bit worried about his AAA showing. Than there is the fact that there is always a bit more risk with pitchers, and the slight possibility that Feliz ends up relieving. And that Smoak is a good defender with solid plate discipline and thus has a high floor as well as a high ceiling.

If Smoak isn’t an A-, than almost no other hitting prospect should be.

Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.

by t ball on Jan 27, 2010 6:36 PM CST up reply actions

All that is true, and my take was a little simplistic

I just think that if Feliz is still considered a “prospect,” that he has to be an “A”

You can say that Feliz still has question marks, but so does any pitching prospect (look at David Price)… If you give out "A"s, then a 21 year old pitcher with arguably an 80 fastball, who shows up in the bigs and strikes out 17 players before he gives up a walk, goes around 24 innings before giving up his 2nd run, yada yada yada…. The guy just has to be considered an A, imo

I’m not arguing that Smoak is rated too high, I’m arguing Feliz has to be higher.

I defer to ya’lls opinions quite often, but I think any GM in the league would trade Smoak for Feliz (could be way off, here)

by BuckyB on Jan 27, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions

I gotcha

I might go along with thinking that Feliz could be considered an A. But, his secondary stuff does still need some work, promising as it is, and trade value is probably a different conversation than giving a grade to a prospect. If you’re really going to compare grades, I’d just compare pitcher-pitcher and hitter-hitter.

Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.

by t ball on Jan 27, 2010 9:39 PM CST up reply actions

if they were ranked in numerical order then you have a case, like if they were 1a 1b...instead of 1 and 2

by slash on Jan 30, 2010 5:14 AM CST up reply actions

Because they are still both

stud prospects?

"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland

by DJCahill on Jan 27, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

That's some solid

stuff.

I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan

by FirebatM3 on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 AM CST reply actions

Good stuff.

Nasty movement on that Feliz pitch.

"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi

by coolaid on Jan 27, 2010 12:43 AM CST reply actions

That was a great read

That's why they call them business sox

by egriffey on Jan 27, 2010 4:21 AM CST reply actions

Yes, it was

I really liked the use of video, and of course, an outsiders view is always nice.

"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.

by Rodney on Jan 27, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions

Heh

From the CPP, our top 11:

#1. RHP Neftali Feliz
#2. LHP Martin Perez
#3. 1B Justin Smoak
#4. RHP Tanner Scheppers
#5. RHP Michael Main
#6. LHP Robbie Ross
#7. RHP Wilmer Font
#8. RHP Danny Gutierrez
#9. RF/DH/1B Mitch Moreland
#10. LHP Kasey Kiker
#11. SS Jurick Profar

Dang-near dead ringer, it is.

Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

by Keynes on Jan 27, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions

Yeah,

but when are we gonna get some pitching prospects in here? Let’s trade Smoak, Moreland and Profar for Phillipe Aumont!

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions

No

This list had the good sense to put Miggy Velazquez where he belongs.

Where is Beltre?

It is a great thing to know the season for speech and the season for silence.
--Seneca

by bioaggie on Jan 27, 2010 10:33 PM CST up reply actions

where's that? behind danny gutierrez?

id bet on miggy making it to the show over danny if i had to bet.

I can't help it. I’m an asshole.
-brettgardner on Jul 7, 2009 10:55 PM EDT

by Jayslick on Feb 15, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions

I thought I'd read that Feliz's fastball was closer to an 80 than a 65

Of course I can’t find it now, anyone?

by BuckyB on Jan 27, 2010 12:31 PM CST reply actions

Potential to be an 80 grade

The scouting grades at Baseball-Intellect are questionable.

BBTiA on Facebook

by jparks77 on Jan 27, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions

BA said it 'might rate as a true 80'

I can’t find the direct quote, but I’ve seen it cited in several places

Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

by Keynes on Jan 27, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

JAYPERS (IL): If you had to pick between Feliz and Stephen Strasburg when deciding whose fastball is most impressive, who gets the nod and why?

Aaron Fitt: Love this question. Amazingly, they’re both legit 80 pitches… Feliz might have just a touch more life, and he does it more easily, but Strasburg has a bit better command of his fastball, so I’d probably go with his. But it’s a toss-up, really.

by octoberty on Jan 27, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

Sexy quote, thanks

by BuckyB on Jan 27, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions

re:

Jason, which grades do you find questionable other than Feliz’s? I’m not being defensive here…just trying to get some feedback, hear some other points of view. Thanks.

www.baseball-intellect.com

by NovaO on Jan 27, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions

Present grades

I often struggle with this. It’s very difficult to assign a grade to a specific minor league attribute based on parallel major league function. My comment above was mainly directed at the pitchability grades, which I think can change based on the amount of first-hand viewing experience. Of course, every take will be a little different, and I certainly respect what you are doing. Your ability to analyze mechanics is impressive.

BBTiA on Facebook

by jparks77 on Jan 28, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions

oh, i agree...

I definitely struggle with present grades with one of the hardest parts being able to maintain consistency from player-to-player. I also can’t really go back and make changes because I got to keep moving…can’t spend too much time thinking about one player’s grades.

Pitchability is a vague term…I try to explain it in my primer though one source of error on my part is that I seem to let a pitcher’s command seep into what I think about their pitchability and I bet if you go back over my grades, you’d find some correlation there.

www.baseball-intellect.com

by NovaO on Jan 28, 2010 7:09 PM CST up reply actions

Hi Bucky

First, thanks to worv for the link as it’s very much appreciated.

As for Feliz’s fastball grade, I think it depends on what you use as your criteria to grade a fastball. The basic criteria is velocity, movement, and command, but each criteria is given a different weight depending on the grader. I put a pretty heavy emphasis on fastball command. It’s not as important as velocity and movement, but I weigh it more heavily than some, I’m sure.

Now, the fastball Feliz showed out of the bullpen was an 80 fastball, no doubt. But he didn’t show near that kind of command as a starter nor does he consistently hit 98, 99, 100 mph as a starter. He’s more 94 – 96 as a starter.

But could I be under-selling Feliz’s fastball? You can make a good case that I am.

www.baseball-intellect.com

by NovaO on Jan 27, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions

Hmm...

For his age, Martin Perez is the most advanced pitcher in minor league baseball.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jan 27, 2010 1:11 PM CST reply actions

pretty aggressive Braden Tullis ranking

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Jan 27, 2010 1:59 PM CST reply actions

and Erlin for that matter

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.

by NothinG on Jan 27, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions

I love that someone

who has a modicum of knowledge about that stuff thinks as highly of them as I do. Nova, do you have any info on Kennil Gomez. I’ve long been a fan but I think I’m in the vast minority. Have you seen him, video of him? And if so what’s your take?

Thanks for this insight. It’s great to read a neutral opinion, especially as you seem to have a pretty darn good grasp of pitching mechanics.

by Hull Fan on Jan 28, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions

Gomez...

Thanks for the kind words Hull.

I think most people like Gomez as a sleeper for next year, but when your organization has so many quality pitching prospects, guys like Gomez get lost in the shuffle.

There is only a little bit of video of Gomez out there, so I really couldn’t get an idea of the kind of pitcher he is, but the one thing you can see is that he has a pretty heavy two-seam fastball.

Looking at his numbers, he struggles with his control and got hit around a little bit as well. He had one really good month and a bunch of mediocre ones. He also had shoulder problems in 2008…seems like he’s a good candidate to be shifted to the bullpen.

Again, he’s a sleeper to watch out for, but because of the number of quality arms surrounding him, he doesn’t standout much.

www.baseball-intellect.com

by NovaO on Jan 28, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions