Andre Dawson the only 2010 Inductee to the Baseball Hall of Fame
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2010 1:09 PM CST
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PrintAndre Dawson is the only inductee into the Baseball Hall of Fame this year, garnering 77.9% of the vote.
Bert Blyleven got 74.2% of the vote, and Robbie Alomar 73.7%, meaning they are just short, but probably get in in 2011.
Congrats to Dawson.
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I was just administered
the Baseball Shocker.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
"You are a jerk."
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Josey, "look that kettle over there is black!"
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Sorry the bit is over your head
but we’re using Ticket drops – try to keep up.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
"Are you walking out?"
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I heard an extended version of the Corby
braggadaccio montage on WTDS before the holidays and it was hilarious.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Loved the Hawk, good for him!
Of course, we all (baseball fans) followed the Cubs in the early days of cable, as well as the Braves.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Classy person that Andre Dawson
but I’m wondering if he has one of the lowest OBP’s (.323) to make it to Cooperstown.
Bill James isn’t happy about this.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Found a few close ones
Brooks Robinson = .325
Rabbit Maranville = .318
Luis Aparicio = .313
Joe Tinker = .308
John Ward = .314
Bill Mazerowski = .302
I still believe!
And I believe most of those players were probably
inducted before the masses discovered the importance of OBP although Mazeroski might have made it within the last 10 years.
Brooks was special so he gets a pass from me.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
2001
for maz. He had a .299 obp
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
Most of those guys...
…were voted in for their defense.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
Don't
I feel he is a lock next year, based on this year’s voting.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, Cal Eldred, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Bobby Higginson, Charles Johnson, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Jose Offerman, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Paul Quantrill, Steve Reed, Kirk Rueter, Rey Sanchez, Benito Santiago, B.J. Surhoff, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Larry Walker, and Dan Wilson.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
So, Bagwell and.......
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I'm curious about...
…the support Bagwell gets, given the current climate vis-a-vis PEDs, him being a big home run guy, and there having been suggestions that he might have been involved in that.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Suggestions
I’ve never heard anything close to definitive about him. Is he under any more suspicion than any other player from the era?
Not mediocre. Right about average
That entire Houston connection of the mid-late 90's has a
bad smell to it.
Bagwell, Caminiti, Finley, Biggio, DBell, LGonzales…
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Totally agree. Bagwell had some pretty ridiculous seasons in Houston.
I think he’s one of the more underrated guys of the past 20 years or so.
So you want all PED players to be eligible for the HOF?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Caminiti was the only guy proven
and wasn’t that amphetamines and not steroids? If it’s nothing but suspicion or accusation, how can you let anyone in during that era?
I thought Caminiti was cocaine
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Jan 6, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
And he did admin to using steroids the year he won the MVP
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Jan 6, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Well from seeing that post yesterday about best players over a 5 year period
where Bagwell and Biggio were the only guys to have better 5 year stretches than Bonds makes me think he has a pretty good shot.
Franco will get
some votes im sure. Probably around 40-50%. Larrry Walker will get some love too. Im guessing next yr Blyleven, Alomar and Bagwell get in.
What is the lowest percentage total that a player has gotten in his time on the ballot but still eventually gotten in?
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
There is NO way
that Tino Martinez should even get close to being inducted. That would be a travesty.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
I don't either
I’m just saying he’ll get votes and stick around for awhile.
OH okay
sorry misunderstood. If Will Clark got dropped in one year so should Martinez BUT since he was a Yankee i bet he gets far more votes than he deserves (which is probably what you meant)
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
I wonder what the vote would hav been had he never gotten caught
That's why they call them business sox
maybe 60-65% the first year
eventually gotten in. Part of this is also how he would have left the game. I guess he had no character issues before this
There are only 4 players in history with 3000+ hits and 500+ home runs
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Eddie Murray
and
Rafael Palmeiro
without the steroids issue, he would have been a 1st or 2nd yr ballot guy.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
he was underrated
Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and McGwire got most of the attention, but it doesn’t mean that Palmeiro wasn’t great. My favorite swings in baseball of that era were Griffey Jr’s then Palmeiro’s.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
He was kind of like Nolan Ryan
very good for a long time, but never the best or even 2nd best in any given year. However, longevity would have gotten him in eventually if it wasn’t for the PEDs.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Here's what I wrote a while back about Palmeiro:
Texas Rangers. Steroid connection? Jose Canseco came to the Rangers at the end of the 1992 season, where he met a young Rafael Palmeiro. Palmeiro had averaged less than 14 home runs per season before meeting Canseco, but would average 38 afterwards in seasons where he played more than 140 games. — (thanks to Fennis).
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
You could also argue
that getting dumped for Will Clark led him to try for more of a power stroke…
And there is a failed test also.
Palmerio is one of the few HoF worthy players we have a definite black mark on. Most of the others are innuendo and rumors. I suspect most of them probably did it, but if you can’t prove it you should ignore it. However that isn’t the BBWA’s way.
What do voluntary mean?
If you cant prove it you should ignore it?
Of course it depends on your standard of proof, but there are going to be a number of guys for whom proof of any certainty is unlikely ever to surface. I dont think it’s appropriate to simply ignore the circumstantial evidence implying their ‘guilt’.
This isn’t a court of criminal law; no loss of liberty is at stake. While I think it’d be unfortunate if a guy got treated like a steroid user even if he was truly innocent, Im not willing to say that this one rare possibility is worth exempting all the supposed steroid users (for whom moderate to strong evidence but no proof exists) from their just desserts.
Im not saying every player from the 90s who put up elite numbers or had a sudden spike in production should automatically be presumed guilty, but a lot of these guys have other things suggesting that more likely than not, they took steroids. In these cases, I dont think it does any justice to just ignore their steroid use while waiting for ‘proof’ which probably wont ever arrive.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 6, 2010 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'd give Larry Walker a decent shot
313/400/565 with 383 homers and 1311 RBIs. Only 2100 hits though
I still believe!
Larry Walker without Coors Field
he was pretty mediocre away from Coors field vs what he did at Coors
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
He was mediocre compared to what he did at Coors?
Well, okay, if you compare him to himself. If you compare him to baseball players, he was incredible. And it’s not like what he did in Coors should just be thrown out, or taken down to what he did the rest of the time, you should adjust for park effects.
Larry Walker is pretty easily a Hall of Famer to anyone who’s not lazy.
there is a big difference in Walker's H/A splits from Coors
You’re acting like it is a small difference in what kind of player he was away from Coors. It is pretty significant.
at Coors Field = .385 /.458 /.721
Road / Away = .281 /.362 /.494
His numbers as they are, are pretty borderline Hall of Fame. If you take into account the park factor, Walker probably wouldn’t be a HOFer.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Home Away Splits:
Not the way to judge park splits.
Go look at what happens to players splits when they play in extreme environments. They hit even worse away from home, thus making that a pretty useless tool for evaluation.
Let’s continue to use actual park adjustments, okay?
exactly
Coors Field is such an outlier in terms of climate and physics that the game is really different away from there. It’s probably a lot harder to adjust away from there than it is to adjust to going there.
Sample size is probably way too small for individual visiting players to determine the detriment
Sample size is also a great point.
Looking at a single player’s H/A splits to determine park effects has time and time again been shot down by the intelligent baseball people of the world. I’m not sure why it still happens.
sorry, those splits are at Coors field
and everywhere else he played. including when he was a player at St. Louis etc
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
so it's not just H/A splits
it’s Coors and Everywhere else
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Walker
36th all-time in FanGraphs’ weighted runs above average (this doesn’t include defense, of course).
67th all-time in Rally’s career wins above replacement.
This is only the beginning of his Hall of Fame argument, not the end, but it would take a monsterous amount of evidence to make that not a Hall of Famer. Beginning with proving why Rally’s park effects (which are pretty much the exact same park adjustments used by everyone everywhere) are so dramatically wrong to take someone from all-time inner-circle great to also-ran.
take whatever park adjustments you want to make
the guy was mediocre away from Coors and his overall resume is not that great imo. I suppose we’ll continue the discussion next year, as it won’t be the end of my rebuttals to your cases.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
cant forget Urbina
absolute lock
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
Blyleven is probably a lock next year given the vote this year.
The sickening part of it all is that we’re going to see another round of Obama-esque love from the baseball media & blog world where they do silly things like try to justify the career of Bob Owchinko.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
justification
is looking at stats to confirm an opinion you already have
most of the blog world didnt even see blyleven pitch, so we’re looking at stats THEN forming an opinion
little bit like the quote in ed coffin’s sig – he uses statistics like a drunken man uses a lampost, for support rather than illumination
I hope the same people who gave votes to Kevin Appier and David Segui voted for Alomar and Blyleven
and an even bigger travesty – how did Todd Zeile not get a single vote?
well appier was only traded twice
so i can see putting him a little ahead of blyleven
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 6, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I really want to see the finally voting tally
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Appier was probably better than a lot of people remember.
If I had an actual vote, I would probably vote for him just to keep him on the ballot. I’m not positive he’s a Hall of Famer, but I’m positive I’d want as long to think about him as possible.
Appier
is definitely underrated by many. Not a HOFer, obviously, but a very solid pitcher for a good many years.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Appier
In Jay Jaffe’s column today on the HOF-eligible pitchers, he has Appier with a higher JAWS score than Jack Morris.
FWIW, Blyleven had a JAWS score (an average of the career and peak WARP, or Wins Above Replacement Player, scores) well above the HOF average for pitchers. Nolan Ryan’s JAWS score is right around the average. Blyleven also had a higher peak WARP and career WARP than Nolan. It’s a free article, definitely worth checking out.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9912
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
So you're voting for him
“just to keep him on the ballot” instead of for his actual accomplishments.
That’s dumb. If you need to do that, the pitcher/player is not worthy of the HOF.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Talk to the BBWAA about leaving people on the ballot for multiple years
It’s their rule.
By your analysis everyone that wasn’t a first balloter shouldn’t be in the hall?
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Overheard on Twitter
5 ballots were left completely blank. This is the same number needed to put Blyleven over 75%. Painful.
why even give these people votes
if they aren’t going to vote for anybody, especially when there are worthy candidates out there
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Well
They may believe that there was no one on the ballot that was worthy of being voted in this year.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Raines, Alomar and Larkin
all need to be in before Dawson.
Truly great players worthy of the HOF.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Dawson's waited years and years
Raines, Alomar and Larkin can’t wait one?
Dawson going to the HOF
is worse than Blyleven sneaking in.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
See my post above
In Jay Jaffe’s BP column today, he assessed the HOF worthiness of Blyleven, Appier, and Jack Morris.
Blyleven’s JAWS score- an average of the career and peak Wins Above Replacement Player scores- is well above that of the average HOF pitcher, who, as it turns out, is pretty much Nolan Ryan.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9912
So if Blyleven “sneaking in” lowers the HOF standards, then Nolan shouldn’t even be in the conversation. Blyleven was worth more wins to his teams, no matter how many times he was traded, or who he was traded for.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
So now we've seen
justification of Bob Owchinko’s major league career along with mixing in something called the “JAWS score” to find a reason to put Bert Blyleven in the HOF.
That’s the problem with Blyleven’s candidacy. You have to read the very fine print and do silly things to find a reason to put him in.
Nolan Ryan had more 37 more wins, 6 more no hitters and 2000 more Ks than Bert Blyleven. He also went to Cooperstown the first year he was eligible.
Your cause came up short for many reasons and among those reasons is that Blyleven wasn’t anywhere close to the pitcher that Ryan was.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I think your "fine print" argument is flawed
The way you use it implies that if you look hard enough, you can justify anybody’s candidacy. Looking at the “fine print” of a terrible ballplayer should only continue to tell you that he’s a terrible ballplayer.
Just because some of these stats aren’t used in mainstream sports journalism doesn’t mean they don’t paint a clearer picture of the player.
meta-signature
JAWS score
I explained what it is- an average of the career and peak Wins Above Replacement Player.
The problem with Blyleven’s candidacy is that he doesn’t have the sparkly numbers that mainstream sportswriters jerk off over, and most of them are too self-important, ignorant, and/or lazy to properly evaluate players.
Today’s election, where Dawson got in, while the superior Tim Raines only got 30% of the vote, is a case in point.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
If Vlad didn't hit for a high average.
Vlad never walked too much, but the dude put up pretty decent OBP throughout his whole career.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I was thinking more along the lines
that they were both speedy, power hitting outfielders who’s years playing for the Expos destroyed their knees and have hobbled them late in their careers.
I find that ridiculous
although, I understand people have their own ideas about who deserves to go in the Hall.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
What exactly do
you consider ridiculous?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
that someone would think there are no worthy candidates this year
it’s the pompous asses who think, I can’t vote for Alomar because “I don’t vote anybody on their 1st ballot year”
It’s pretty obvious to me, that Alomar and Larkin deserve to be in the HoF as well as Blyleven (we won’t go into that) and Raines. I would wonder if these same people left their ballots blank last year since Rickey Henderson wasn’t quite unanimous as a 1st year ballot player.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Are ballots kept secret?
I know a lot of writers publish their choices but do they remain confidential if the writer doesnt reveal them himself? Cus I think publishing them would go a long way towards cleaning up the process. The dinosaurs who dont vote for Tom Seaver or Rickey Henderson would at least have to face their (presumably) outraged audiences. But to go blank ballot year after year and never have to make any public account for your decision is sort of absurd.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 6, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
They are
There is a thread at Baseballthinkfactory wherein some voters reveal their ballots.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Haha, from a BP chat today
Jay Jaffe: Blank ballots are voters’ way of throwing themselves on the ground in the middle of the produce aisle and hoping mommy notices.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I know Marriotti left his blank
he said yesterday on Around the Horn
it only further confirmed my belief that he is a fucking moron
Fuck Mike Estabrook
"...meaning they will probably get in in 2011."
but will they?
This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee: none of us will see heaven.
What is this, Horseville? Because I'm surrounded by naysayers.
It's almost Jay-Z lyrics from "December 4th"
“This is the life I chose, or rather, the life that chose me. If you can’t respect that, your whole perspective is whack; maybe they’ll love me when I fade to black?”
Vote tally
on BR front page:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/
"Most of Jesus’s parables were economic parables, and they were free-market parables." -- Andrew Schlafly
Thanks Scott
Nice to see Morris far from the mark.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
So after Blyleven gets in next year will
the next community stat-head HOF cause for relevance be Lou Whittaker?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Yes to Trammell
I really think he gets no love because of some weird bias against Detroit…
interesting that everybody increased in percentage
or they were a 1st year ballot player. That seems strange to me.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
And Blyleven has the highest increase
+11.5%
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
think of it like this
skipping ahead to like 1950 (because old old players had to catch up in the begining), these guys didn’t get in on their first couple ballots:
joe cronin (11th ballot)
hank greenberg (8th ballot)
sam crawford (veterans committe)
luke appling (7th ballot)
joe medwick (11th ballot)
and there are many more and much worse to list, but i’m too busy
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
sorry to see
only 21.5% for mcgriff.
but yeah, congrats to dawson
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
I feel bad for Baines
he ended up with 2830 hits. Anybody with over 2800 hits is in the Hall (outside of current players, players not yet on the ballot, and Pete Rose, but all those will be in the Hall except Rose.). He only gets 5.9% last year and 6.1% this year. It is because he was primarily a DH.
I agree about McGriff this year, but it was his first year and he may get enough momentum to make it into the HoF.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Baines is a good player who played for a long time.
Not sure that makes you a HoF player. The fact that he spent a lot of time DHing while compiling his number really hurts him since he is a borderline type player in the best situation.
What do voluntary mean?
Obviously, Dawson got in because he was never traded.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
I wonder how many HOFs were traded four times during the 25-34
prime years of their careers?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I wonder how many people...
…actually think that’s relevant.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Eckersley was traded three times in those prime years
but he was a drunk and his wife had an affair with Rick Manning…(allegedly).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Orlando Cepeda was traded three times
between 24-34 but he was competing with the great McCovey in SFO so that’s excusable plus he had bad knees and had to move over to the AL in the 70s to DH.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Mark Teixeira
On his fourth team in a seven-year career, traded twice, including once for Casey Kotchman and some spare named Steve Marek.
Clearly, Teixeira is not on a Hall of Fame path.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
by RCCook on Jan 6, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And he was traded both times because he was about to
become a free agent.
And yeah, Mark Teixeira is well on his way to the HOF.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Blyleven
Traded twice because he didn’t like the teams he was playing for and publicly forced trades, and once (from Texas to Pittsburgh) because he publicly flipped off a TV camera.
So there might have been a reason the teams that dealt him had to accept 50 cents on the dollar. I don’t see either of those circumstances as weighing against his HOF worthiness.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
He was traded
that many times because the GMs that had him never considered him to be anywhere close to great.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Link, please?
What GMs said that?
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
I think
It’s from the same source that alleged that the players in The Room don’t like JD.
It’s called “Josey’s Wild-Ass Guesses.”
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
I guess Kevin Mench is a hell of a lot older than I thought
If he was talking shit about Blyleven in the 70s.
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. You count on it, rely on it to buffer the passage of time, to keep the memory of sunshine and high skies alive, and then just when the days are all twilight, when you need it most, it stops.
Also, let's not forget the real tragedy here, folks.
Robin Ventura will never make the Hall of Fame.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Ventura
Not unless someone establishes a Hall of Fame of Getting Your Ass Kicked.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
Don't act like you wouldn't visit the HOFOGYAK if it existed.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Rodney is the door greeter at the
HOFOGYAK.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Rodney Dangerfield?
I don’t follow.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Rodney
Actually, I think he’s the guide for the Josey Wales/Will Carroll exhibit…
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
by RCCook on Jan 6, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And yes
I would totally visit the Hall of Fame of Getting Your Ass Kicked if it existed.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
Will Carroll may have called me
out but he looked really dumb in doing so.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
Ahem.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
So you really think the Rangers should take one year of Carl Crawford
for four years of Nelson Cruz and be happy?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"Business as usual." - Tom Hicks on the Ranger off-season 11/19/09
I'm just going to let you do whatever you need to in order to make yourself feel better about being called out.
Take it away, champ.
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Andre Dawson > Bert Blyleven, Robbie Alomar, Edgar Martinez, Tim Raines and Alan Trammell
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHHAHAHA
The Hall of Fame is a joke.
No the HoF isn't a joke
Its gate keepers that are the joke.
What do voluntary mean?
Marty Nolbe is a "Small Hall" guy
He only voted for two people: Larkin and…. Dave Parker!
WTF?!
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Jan 6, 2010 2:45 PM CST reply actions
next year's first year ballot guys
rafael palmiro
jeff bagwell
larry walker
john franco
juan gonzalez
benito santiago
kevin brown
john olerud
bret boone
ugueth urbina
marquis grissom
carlos baerga
al leiter
tino martinez
b.j. surhoff
charles johnson
jose offerman
dan wilson
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
im gonna go out on a limb here
and say urbina doesnt get in his first try.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 6, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
i don't think any of them do
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
I think Bagwell
has a legit shot.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
him
should he get in? yes. but he seems to be under suspicion for being a roider.
that’ll hurt bonds, sheffield, thome, man ram, etc
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Urbina's candidacy is On Fire!!!
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
same guy that
voted john kruk a few years ago?
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
this makes it really hard for me to give a shit about the hall of fame
id say alomar is a top 3 2B all time (maybe higher) & if that doesnt get you in first ballot, then this whole process should be considered as a new event in the special olympics.
maybe higher than top 3? you'd be crazy to put him ahead of Hornsby and Morgan
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Fair to call him the best 2B of his generation though, yes?
What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?
Biggio and Alomar
are the best of those years, and yes, he is ahead of Biggio imo.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Id put
Biggio ahead of Alomar…..slightly
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
Gotta think
the spitting incident left him off the some ballots he otherwise would have been on.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
It definitely cost him at least one vote
From Marty Noble of MLB.com:
Alomar will probably be elected, and based on performance through most of his 17 seasons, he ought to be. But he will go without my vote this year. I don’t like to use the ballot in this manner, but the best second baseman since Joe Morgan — and probably the best ever — doesn’t deserve my vote for at least one year because of two spitting instances. We’re all aware of the one involving John Hirschbeck. I don’t care that Hirschbeck forgave Alomar for spitting at him; I haven’t. It was unacceptable behavior.
"What ... 92 miles per hour?" Feldman scoffed. "That's not gas. Feliz throws gas."
by NorCalRangersFan on Jan 6, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
Two things jump out at me
1) There is NO WAY that Alomar is better than Morgan
2) He admitted he ought to be elected….well….elect him you douchebag.
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
Word
you know how all these writers talk about how having steroid users in the hall cheapens the game? You know what really cheapens the game? Using your HOF ballot as an opinion piece instead of treating it as a sacred trust.
Go get cancer Marty Noble.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I totally agree
I think that writers wield it as their final shot against certain players. I hate it when something like this gets mentioned: “Well he had a great relationship with the media so that should help his chances” or “He had a terrible relationship with the media so he may have to wait for a year or two”. Ugh!!!
"More than likely JW never played sports above the youth level. It amazes me that he seems to have no concept on the common reactions of an adult athlete or their normal interactions between each other." - laxonto
The best second baseman ever?
Better than Morgan, Collins, and Hornsby?
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 6, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
When you really look at it, should they be voting for the Hall?
They have their jobs because they’re good at conveying stories and unearthing information interesting to readers. Not for understanding the game well or analyzing players well or removing subjectivity from determining who the best of the best are.
And yet they are given the absolute power to pretty much determine ever relevant award.
I really don't see
how else to do it? Maybe a panel with equal representation for HOF players, good sports writers and professional analysts?
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
I kinda like the way the NFL does it.
At least everyone gets to hear a compelling(or non-compelling) argument for each player.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
The NFL hall at times is even worse then the MLB hall.
They have a tendency to put in a lot of players because of team accomplishments. I’m expecting the 70’s steelers towel boy to be elected any day now. There are people on the panel that I believe will never vote for a player from certain teams/markets.
And remember most of the worst choices in the Baseball HoF are player selections, not writer selections. As bad as the writers are at times they are still much better then the veteran’s committee was.
What do voluntary mean?
I think the ballots should be made public
so they can be held accountable for their stupidity
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I don't necessarily know how else to do it, but at the very least, analysts make more sense.
Hell, most of the group is writers on current events, not even researchers and historians.
What about Cody Ross?
I’m doing homework on him now and think he’d make a good back up outfielder/DH.
He has over 3 MLB years so Florida doesn’t have control of him any more right? His 1 yr/2.225 mil deal will be up in a month. He hits lefties as well, if not better than righties. He’s right around 30. Would Florida give him up? He’s from New Mexico, so maybe he’d like to be closer to home.
I’m just trying to think outside of the box here. Tired of the Vlad/Burrell/Thome talk.
Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?
His OBP's are pretty disheartening though
He’s like a white Marlon Byrd.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 6, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
But wouldn't having Byrd be nice this year? At 2.5 mil?
I mean, a Byrd that Wash doesn’t feel the absolute need to play no matter what?
I could see Ross batting 5th behind Cruz vs lefties and 5th behind Hamilton vs. righties. He struggles or someone is hitting harder (hopefully Davis) he gets bumped to 6th.
Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?
If Ross never, ever, ever faced a RHP I'd be okay with it.
But as a 4th OF he wouldn’t be platooned, and he has a career .309 OBP vs. RHP (.313 and .305 the last two years). He’s got some pretty good power vs. lefties, but that’s about all you can really say for Ross offensively.
We can and should do better.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 6, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
Wow. Did anyone else know Craig Counsel is 39 years old?
He’s like the anti-Vlad when it comes to looking your age.
I was thinking maybe he could be our utiliti-inf.
God I need the season to get here. This is all I do now. Look to fill our holes.
Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?
I think it's the little-league batting stance
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 6, 2010 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
he has 2 more years til he's a FA
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Think they'll take Murphy?
They need a lefty in their lineup. They are stacked full of righty bats.
Give me team chemistry and emotion over stats any day. Do you think 34,000 Ranger fans were screaming their asses off over Pudge and his .275 OBP?
we're stacked with RH bats as well
i don’t really understand the search for RH bat, but JD has been quoted as looking for a presence regardless of handedness. I hope this is true
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
I don't understand this...
Dawson was a good player, and congrats to him, but he shouldn’t be in the HOF imho. I see at least 7 guys I would have voted for before Dawson this year.
Some of the fucking HOF voters are just laughable.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Do the writers think they're being asked
about Tim Raines, the son? Too bad he played in Rickey’s era, I guess.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
The writers are dumb
if they weren’t dumb, they wouldn’t be sportswriters.
I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team. - LSJ
"I really think that" - LSJ, on being asked by AirJordan
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write.
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
I've noticed a lot of people saying he's not a HoFer because he wasn't as good as Rickey Henderson.
Isn’t that like saying Jimmie Foxx isn’t a HoFer because he wasn’t as good as Lou Gehrig?
it's funny
i think people (especially people my age) around Chicago are starting to realize that Dawson might go into the Hall as an Expo and suddenly care a lot less
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