Ben F. Sheets
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 6:26 PM CST
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PrintI have an irrational impatience for discussing anything to do with Ben Sheets. Perhaps this thread can help clear some things up. Nothing about Jon Garland has been mentioned in the press recently that I'm aware of, so I guess this is hypothetical. But he is still available as of this writing, so that explains why the poll is the way it is.
In my mind you have this guy -- Ben Sheets -- whose stuff is awesome and has never really struggled to get big league hitters out. The consummate ace, he has thrown a lot of innings, as well. But he's hurt and has not pitched in well over a year. Andy Pettitte had a similar surgery and was back relatively quickly. So my questions about Ben Sheets extend beyond "why would we want the Rangers to sign a rusty pitcher?". Instead I'm wondering what the hell else is wrong with the guy.
On the other hand you have this other fellow who goes by the name of Jon Garland. He's not hurt, at least as far as we know. He's never really been seriously hurt. Garland is consistent; you know what you will get from him, and that is more than 200 innings with a whip of around 1.4. He won't K a lot of guys, but won't walk a lot of guys. There's nothing really flashy about him, but he can be counted upon.
Consider that the Rangers' ace is a guy who we can only hope will pitch 140 innings and that except for Scott Feldman they're relying on youth and inexperience. Assume there are limited financial resources available to the team and they're not willing to part with a bunch of young talent to trade for a starter. With that and mind, please discuss and answer the poll question. Hypothetically the two pitchers would sign for very similar terms.
Thank you for your time.
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Colby Lewis.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Jon Garland?
since becoming a full time starter in 2002 he’s put up a sub-4 ERA once way back in 2005. last year he came close only with 6 great outings with LA. K/9>5 twice (2002,2003 not including LA).
With Texas’ plethora of pitching do we need a pitcher of Jon Garland (30) caliber or Ben Sheets (31). I’m Sheets all the way. Worst case scenario he gets hurt and we waste some of our precious pennies when in Garland’s case the upside is minimal.
http://secondbaser.blogspot.com
To hell with ERA.
Are you serious? If you think Jon Garland is a BAD pitcher then, I’m sorry, you don’t know fuck all about what you’re talking about. GTFO of my thread.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
He's not particularly good either...
he’s pretty much the definition of league average.
I’d take Ben Sheets’ upside, but I do see the value in a Garland eating innings at league average.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jan 8, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
FOR SHAME!!!!
GTFO of Dustins thread!!!!
Josey Wales born on LSB July 18, 2006 Jumped the shark--That glorious day in 2008. RIP Josey Wales.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
Never said he was particularly good
Thanks for at least seeing the other side of the argument, though.
But I still can’t agree with you. This guy is hurt. Has yet to work out for anyone. He wants money anyway and the Rangers probably don’t have a lot. I know what he used to be but I don’t understand how so many people can put so much faith in him. The poll is 4:1 in favor of Sheets and that is just profoundly ridiculous as far as I’m concerned.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Glad this is YOUR thread
and you hold your opinion so high. chill out dude. if you can’t accept a contradictory opinion… go back to china.
http://secondbaser.blogspot.com
Back to first base for that post
Josey Wales born on LSB July 18, 2006 Jumped the shark--That glorious day in 2008. RIP Josey Wales.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
When
are you going to explain your hidden agenda. Polls are closed. Ben Sheets all the way.
http://secondbaser.blogspot.com
Hidden Agenda
I’m making a list of smart people and a list of dumb people. LSB has sorely disappointed me. I have always thought this crowd to be highly intelligent with a few glaring exceptions.
by Black Francis on Jan 9, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
You need a jackhammer in your ass
click on the signature.
by Black Francis on Jan 12, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
I did before
if that’s a hobby, its not working. Maybe thinking about jackhammering asses has something to do with it.
Fuck you art critic
That site has won fucking awards, asshole.
by Black Francis on Jan 13, 2010 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
WIN
This entire thread was just an excuse for you to write this comment, wasn’t it?
Not mediocre. Right about average
Nope
As most of you know I don’t need an excuse to be an asshole. The thread is what it is, but it does have another hidden agenda. I will not yet say what it is.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
Id want
Sheets, mostly because if we get to the playoffs, I don’t know if I’m comfortable with Feldman being our #2 against Lackey/Lester or Burnett. While its debatable which one would be more helpful depending on how many innings they pitched and all the other variables, I think IF we got to the playoffs with a healthy Sheets, we would be in pretty nice shape with a Harden-Sheets 1-2. Harden-Feldman……….I think we’d be big underdogs that 2nd game.
How do you feel about Vazquez-Feldman or Lackey-Feldman?
Just saying we better have some magic going.
How do you feel about...
Harden-Sheets-Feldman-Hunter-Feliz-Holland-McCarthy-Harrison-Mendoza-Hurley-…Wilson??…
I’m pumped.
http://secondbaser.blogspot.com
a lot better
than I would about Hunter or Holland going up against Vazquez or Lackey
Ben Sheets
Winter 2009’s Clay Buchholz.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
Thread hijack!
Commence hijacking – TR’s got another Vladdy report tonight …
This is still a deal that is not yet done. It does appear to be in the serious stage … Right now, it appears that the Rangers are the most ardent pursuers of Guerrero and there is a lot of work being done trying to get a deal completed.The old Vladdy thread has grown too large to frack with – thought I’d dump it here.
Apoplectic in the face of luminous prose.
Andro says there's nothing to the rumors
It seems everyone with a Twitter account has the Rangers and Guerrero agreeing to a deal. According to a source with the team, nothing on Friday had changed despite Twittering to the contrary. That means nothing changed from Thursday’s erroneous report about Guerrero getting offered $7 million. A deal still may get done, but nothing’s happened yet. Because of that, don’t look for another Guerrero story in Saturday’s Star-Telegram. There’s no news there.
- Anthony Andro
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Dueling stories
And you have to take Andro more seriously given TR’s lousy track record, even though you hope TR’s the one who’s right.
Fuck.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 8, 2010 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
go fuck yourself
ha
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 8, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
I think he meant
Don’t look for another Guerrero story in Saturday’s Star-Telegram because no one reads the Star-Telegram.
He’s just angry that Twitter is now more of a reporting site than news stations, and newspapers.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
by iorange555 on Jan 8, 2010 10:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
he probably had a story written
and he had to trash it because it was old news fast. too bad
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Fuck your thread Dustin...
FREEDOM!
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Just You Wait
Next time a fanpost is started by SLC RANGER, LONESTARJON, DIRKDIGGLER, or SHROOMER I am going to not only hijack it but I will spam it all to hell. Because I have the freedom, muthafucka.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
i have a space in my name
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 8, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
hijacking is terrorism
He redeemed himself below by agreeing with me, so I will not spam his next fan post.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe you should start a group of Fanpost Marshalls instead
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 8, 2010 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
First I need to start a war about something completely unrelated, though.
It will have to wait.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
agree with your Sheets angle FWIW
He’s out of our price range and likely to be too rusty to help in 2010 when Worsh and JD had better put a skin up on the wall.
Apoplectic in the face of luminous prose.
You are going soft Shroom
Don’t give in to Dustin. Stick to your guns! FREEDOM SHALL RULE!!
Josey Wales born on LSB July 18, 2006 Jumped the shark--That glorious day in 2008. RIP Josey Wales.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
i would go with Garland
i think we could still get him for cheap.
you've had a change in heart.
Welcome to the New Darkside.
by Black Francis on Jan 8, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone interested
in Mulder? i think you could get him on a minor league contract with an invite to spring training.
I would take a flier on him
Josey Wales born on LSB July 18, 2006 Jumped the shark--That glorious day in 2008. RIP Josey Wales.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
what teams have even been linked to Sheets?
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
The Yankmees have been, IIRC.
Dunno who else.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
Well, every time Sheets has been brought up
JD says something along the lines of “We had a deal in place with him last year, but the failed physical voided it. If he proves to be healthy then we would still have a level of interest.” Beyond that I really haven’t heard anything about Sheets, other than he wants $12 million. At that price I doubt any teams are linked to him right now.
Jimmy Johnson for GM.
the latter is possible given your disposition
but not likely.
I don’t get it either. I guess the Ben Sheets rumor has been around long enough that he’s turned into a mythical creature.
meta-signature
It's pretty simple to me
Garland will never be more than league average kind of pitcher. We’ve got plenty of possibilities for that kind of spot right now. Sheets can be really good, so even if there’s a chance that he won’t be, I’d still rather have that chance than not have it.
Guys like Milly and Garland ...
the bullpen arms love ’em. Soooooooo deep and satisfying.
Apoplectic in the face of luminous prose.
At this point
we need to have someone who is reliable more then we need more dice thrown at the wall.
Sheets, if everything works out, is going to be a better pitcher than Garland. The problem with Sheets is that people I swear are remembering Ben Sheets from a few years ago. Its the same thing I think a lot of people are doing with Vlad. Remembering the good all star level player and not realizing that the days of that may be over for good.
What do voluntary mean?
BR and Wikipedia ain't telling
But apparently he owns a minor league hockey team and enjoys jambalaya and crawfish etouffee.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 9, 2010 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
Is that like what the Hasidic Jews do?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
You'd think with as much money he's made, he could afford hookers instead.
If the Rangers were in the playoffs... the soundtrack could be one long continuous fart, and I would love it. - cmkelly
by LSJ on Jan 9, 2010 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
Neither
One absolutely can’t be depended upon at this point, and the other would/should fall very far down our depth chart when the time comes to put the rotation together.
I go for the guy who can give you a Cy Young season
I may be wrong, but that is what I do
Go Rice Owls!
I had to noodle this one for a while
But ultimately I voted in the losing minority. Given that Holland, Hunter, and whoever wins the current scramble for the 5th starter are far from sure things, and Harden possibly being a 5/6 inning max dude, I think getting 200 league average innings would hold more value to this team (in terms of keeping the Moscosos, Hurleys, and Dozers in AAA or BP roles) than a slightly rosy projection for Sheets. And if you get less than that rosy projection, things could get ugly quick.
I wonder if Sheets ends up sitting out the first quarter to half of the season, though, if he doesn’t get offers he likes- and he ends up showing he’s healthy right around the time Greenberg fully takes the reigns and our rotation has cleared itself up.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
I think there is a BIG question
as to whether or not Garland can actually give you ‘200 innings of league average’ in the American League & at TBIA…..I also think it is highly likely that some combination of Holland/Harrison/BMac/Nippert is more likely to combine for 200 innings of league average or better than Garland, not to mention the seasoning/experience factor for the youngun’s getting time.
Sheets has the potential to be at least a #2, and that’s what you go get, not some possible #5 (when you have a ton of young depth needing innings).
BTW, Harden has made the same # of starts the last 2 years as Lackey…..
I don't think it's that big of a question
Garland isn’t some guy who’s spent his entire career in the National League. Far from it. I think with the infield defense the Rangers have he’d be a good fit. Those young guys you mention will have a chance to pitch, believe me.
Sheets doesn’t have any potential as far as I know. Hasn’t thrown for anybody. All we hear from his camp is that he wants a shit ton of money.
I’m aware of the Harden/Lackey thing, but I don’t give a damn about John Lackey. Harden has exceptional talent and I’m glad he’s here, but he cannot handle a big workload. Look over playoff teams from the last ten years and you’ll see that most had a couple guys pitching 200 innings each. It’s important because it keeps the bullpen straight.
If the goal is to win this year, you acquire Garland or somebody like him. You’re already taking a bit of a flier on Harden and you don’t want to have two question marks that big followed by a bunch of smaller question marks. It’s not that I don’t like the Rangers young pitching. I do. If I didn’t think they could fill their rolls well I’d think it would be pointless to sign anybody.
If and when Harden gets hurt would you really expect to compete with three or more rookies and 2nd year players in the rotation? I think that’s naive.
by Black Francis on Jan 9, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
So anyway...
I love the upside of Sheets vs. the mehness of Garland, but, given the number of young, unpredictable and injury risk guys among the rotation candidates already, I’ll take the steady mediocre Garland over the additional injury risk of a guy who hasn’t pitched in a long time and isn’t a good bet to be ready soon.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
And that is assuming
that Sheets costs more than just a couple million. If his price comes down enough I could be tantalized.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
Possibly
but I would have thought everyone would be in on Harden at the price the Rangers got him, too.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
x
http://www.lonestarball.com/2010/1/9/1242733/blue-jays-closing-in-on-deal-for
"Ho visto il tuo agire, non solo rendono per me. Basta un sacco di fluff".
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