Rosenthal: Francisco likely to accept arbitration
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2010 6:17 PM CST
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PrintKen Rosenthal has a story up about Frank Francisco and the Rangers, saying that Francisco is expected to accept arbitration by the midnight, December 7, deadline.
Frankie is a Type A free agent, so if another team were to sign him, that team would forfeit a draft pick. With Francisco having missed the last month of the season, and all of the playoffs, because of an injury, Francisco apparently figures he's better off accepting arbitration, and landing a one year deal of around $5 million, than hoping for a team to be willing to do better than that at the cost of a first or second round pick.
Francisco accepting arbitration would also give the Rangers more depth in their bullpen, allowing them to experiment this spring with using Neftali Feliz or Alexi Ogando as a starter. If Frankie returns, the Rangers could put him back into his old closer's role, and move Feliz into the rotation, with Ogando filling the 8th inning set up role and being groomed to take over as closer in 2012.
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Wilson
Lewis
Hunter
Holland
Feliz
?
by TooLegitToQuit on Nov 28, 2010 6:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Strausburg and Josh Johnson plz
Don't listen to me. I'm a fucking moron.
by hornedfrogs45 on Nov 28, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
I'd add Roy Halladay
but he’s a choker in the playoffs. But I guess, if you want to have a couple of no-hitters during the regular season, I guess we could let him be on the team.
"I also have to say that I was pretty obviously wrong about C.J. Wilson. As recently as the All Star Break, I proclaimed the decision to move him the rotation a failure. That was epicfail of a, well, epic nature" - AJM
this wouldn't happen
if we have Lee and Greinke, that 5th spot would go to Holland or Hunter, but I would see the sense in putting Feliz in there as there would be no pressure on him at all and plenty of depth to pick up the innings.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Not the 4 and 5 starters I want in a year we are supposed to be going for a championship
I can handle one of them but I want some dependability with the other. A guy like Tommy Hunter isn’t sexy or wont win any FIP awards but he provides a dependable guy at the back of a rotation
Here is what I see
With Lee/Greinke, Wilson, Lewis – you have a top 3 as good as any in baseball, especially the AL West. They should win the division no problem (obviously, Oakland’s starters could keep improving and they could magically find an offense, but the Rangers with Lee or Greinke would have to be 75% favorites for the division. This is independent of who their 4th or 5th starter is. Those 3 plus the best offense in the division mean that the playoffs are as secure as you really can make it.
In the playoffs, you will only need one of Holland or Feliz to have materialized into a Madison Bumgarner type threat (a guy who could give you a great game in Prime Time).
So what is the advantage of having a low ceiling "won’t hurt you too much " type guy like Hunter out there? In a rotation where it is Lewis/Wilson/ 3 others it is clear – he’ll eat up innings and hopefully give the team a chance to win half his starts. That should be enough. But with 3 premium pitchers on the team? I don’t see why you need Hunter.
Go Rice Owls!
My worry is CJ and Colby
How will they bounce back from 2009? CJs innings increased dramatically and I know hes older so the Verducci effect (injury concern) may not be prevalent but will his effectiveness carry over?
And with Colby part of me is worried he was a flash in the pan last year. Not many guys had ever faced him and he was obviously a totally different pitcher than what went to japan several years ago. Now that hes had a year under his belt will guys fare better against him?
If either or both of those guys slide back some then having such uncertainty from both the 4 and 5 spots is extremely worrisome. While Holland and Feliz both have the ability to go out and pitch complete game 2 hitters they also are very susceptible to going out and giving up 5 or 6 runs in 4 or 5 innings. Having that back to back in the rotation could put added stress on the bullpen.
Lets look at the Giants this past year. They had Zito as their 4 guy. He was left off the playoff roster but he got them to the playoffs by taking the hill 30 times. Just like Borbon for us he may not be the greatest CF on the roster but he won’t keep us from the playoffs. Once we get there we don’t have to play him if we have better options.
by bigsteve on Nov 28, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I see your point
There is always a chance that one of the Rangers top starters goes all Feldman on us and doesn’t work out.
That said, Hunter’s ceiling is pretty low (probably what he gave you in 2010) and most likely he’s going to be a LAIE. While he is decent insurance and won’t hurt you, there is little long term value for playing him (whereas with Feliz and Holland, you’re developing a future starter and getting to see their long-term rotation prospects).
It’s kind of like financial investing (pre-current crisis). Do you invest in boring bonds, who won’t give you a great return but probably won’t hurt you (Hunter), or do you invest in higher risk stocks (Holland and Feliz), who may give you a huge return – even make you rich – but may leave you with nothing? Now, the correct answer is “depends on what your near term and long term goals are, and what the rest of your portfolio looks like”
Hunter is just a risk-averse decision, and if the balance of the portfolio is very strong (i.e., Lee or Greinke is here), I don’t see why you need to be sacrificing near term and long term upside.
Go Rice Owls!
Now, as a disclaimer
the above is entirely predicated on Feliz going straight to the rotation in the majors. If they want to stretch him out in AAA (CJ didn’t need it), then you have Hunter/Holland to back any rotation configuration and then, when Feliz is ready, you slot him in for the weakest link (or an injury… )
Also, I think there is a non-trivial chance that Hunter or Holland goes to KC in a Greinke trade. I honestly don’t know which one they’d want. I know which one they should want, but who knows.
Go Rice Owls!
Of course he did
What was his option, an NRI? This is why I kept saying he wasn’t bringing a draft pick back, and I stick by that assertion.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
He wasn't going to be an NRI
He’d get a major league deal.
If all he’d have been was an NRI, the Rangers wouldn’t have offered him arbitration.
by Adam J. Morris on Nov 28, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
and even if he were an NRI
if he made a roster, said team would still owe a draft pick. Otherwise, teams would always be doing the whole “sign him to an NRI to avoid the compensation” strategy
Go Rice Owls!
or go through what Juan Cruz went a couple of years ago
"I also have to say that I was pretty obviously wrong about C.J. Wilson. As recently as the All Star Break, I proclaimed the decision to move him the rotation a failure. That was epicfail of a, well, epic nature" - AJM
Yeah, I was stretching things, obviously
But no team was going to sign him to a multi-year deal, while also giving up a 1st rounder. That has been a point of discussion that I just never saw happening.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
glad to have FX2 back
Kinda sucks that we won’t have any extra draft picks in a deep year, but I can live with it :)
Yep, I will be very happy if we don't have any extra draft picks
by groundingout on Nov 28, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
But lets not sign Soriano at all.....
and not go after Konerko, for the money and the pick he is gonna cost I’d rather go for Dunn, or the cheaper route with Lee or even Berkman over Konerko.
by groundingout on Nov 28, 2010 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
Is there any rule against offering arb in back to back years?
Assuming he accpets, can we offer it again next year if he retains A status? Put him back at closer (with Feliz to the roto!), let him get 35+ saves and team will be all over him next offseason, then we can get a year of Franky at a decent price and still get the picks next year.
Side note…seems like this is the first season in a long long time where the Rangers aren’t looking to add a veteran starter on a one year deal to fill a whole in the rotation. Too bad that lines up with the somewhat reasonable deals Garland and Vazquez have signed.
If we don't sign Lee
Then I expect us to fill our rotation with some kind of veteran on a one year deal. Especially with feldman likely being out until May or June with his knee issue
Yep, can't see why you couldn't do that with Francisco
It’s an added bonus to going ahead and keeping him around. You get another year out of him and still may get your comp. And if he’s just an ok setup guy he may be a Type B next winter and you get a supp pick without fear that the comp will scare teams away.
by Brett Perryman on Nov 28, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather him be a type B for that fact
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
yes
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. ~Bob Lemon, 1981
You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver
by TheDutchOven on Nov 28, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
Bullpen
Frankie coming back on a one-year contract is a very good thing.
If we are able to keep Cliff Lee, I have a gut feeling that they are going to give Ogando a shot at the rotation, and go into the season with a rotation of Lee, Lewis, Wilson, Hunter and Ogando, with Holland, Scheppers, Harrison and Kirkman in AAA to provide the rotation depth.
I would still prefer they give Feliz a shot in the rotation, with Frankie as the closer and Ogando as the set-up guy (in an arrangement like Posnanski described in the setup men are the new closers post a couple days ago), but I think he’s staying in a bullpen for at least another season.
Why do people think Ogando is going to get a chance at starter?
The guy hasn’t ever been a starter as far as I can tell. The only stats MiLB has from his exile time shows he never started a game in the DSL and only got 3 starts in Frisco at the start of last year. Although he only had 15 innings in 7 appearances at Frisco including those starts so i don’t know if those were true starts or emergency type starts.
Nolan has said he could be a starter, based on his pitch mix.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
I wish Nolan would keep his nose out of personnel issues and focus on the business side of things
Just because a guy has more than one pitch doesn’t mean they can automatically be a starter.
True
That whole mentality of his with the pitching deep into games and better conditioning of the pitchers has no place with the Rangers.
by groundingout on Nov 29, 2010 1:07 AM CST up reply actions
Considering
the Rangers were 22nd in MLB and 11th in the AL in IP by starters, I’d say the Rangers show no evidence of benefit from better conditioning, and no indications they pitch deeper into games.
Folks need to separate the hype from the reality.
"I wanted to go out there and punch Julio" - Ron Washington
Harden was in terrific shape
didn’t help him.
When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream.
Did help CJ though.
But that is a byproduct of his workout regime and that it has been a sustained regime for the past several years.
Cliff Lee: "Seventy or 80 percent of [Hamilton] is better than everyone else. Everyone knows his history. He’s a complete player who plays every aspect well. He’s the best player I’ve ever played with. That’s the best compliment I can give him.’’
I think that
They would have Ogando in AAA to stretch him out and see if he is a viable rotation canidate. The 5th spot I think would go to Holland.
Note to self:
Never again pay for a training webinar on Sunday from 7-10pm…le sigh.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Training in what...?
Just curious.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Nov 28, 2010 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Social media marketing
I bailed out at 10:30.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Excellent
glad to have him around again.
When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream.
Ok so...
If we don’t move Feliz/Ogando to the rotation… How does our bullpen shake out when everyone is healthy?
9th Feliz
8th Frank
7th Ogando
6th Oday/Oliver
Long-Feldman/Harrison?
Seems awfully crowded back there, which is good I guess, but what about when Scheppers is deemed ready to come up? Or Omar Beltre? I think giving Feliz a shot in the rotation is a great idea right now considering our bullpen depth, and then Scheppers can hopefully fill in as bullpen depth if there’s a slew of injuries or ineffectiveness. Plus JD is a wizard when it comes to finding gems for the bullpen at bargain prices.
my better is better than your better.
by rangerjake on Nov 29, 2010 8:32 AM CST via mobile reply actions
depth is never a bad thing
things always seem to work out in the end; I’d wager Scheppers will be starting again for the first half of 2011 and then comes up in the 2nd half for a run in the pen
"Look at our current situation with that camel f$%ker over in Iraq. Pacifism is not something to hide behind."
by Walter Sobchak on Nov 29, 2010 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Scheppers and Beltre will start 2011 in AAA as starters
They may transition later in the year to relief if the ML pen needs help for a stretch run but they are starters for 2011. And you forgot Lowe in there.
Feliz, Lowe, Ogando, Oliver, Oday is a pretty stout top5. If Frankie does indeed come back then its arguable the Rangers will have the best pen in the majors going into 2011 with Frankie and most likely Nippert alongside those 5.
Other question..
(I own a feliz jersey so I am highly biased)… But let’s say KC sees Feliz as a starter/future ace and we see him as a closer. They offer Greinke for Feliz and two mid-level Beavan type prospects… Do you consider it??
my better is better than your better.
by rangerjake on Nov 29, 2010 8:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
As long as KC also sees the Beavan types
future Greinkes.
When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream.
If Frankie comes back...
and I absolutely hope he does, I like the teams ’pen is strong enough to move Feliz to the rotation.
Fx2, Ogando, Lowe (who I think could be huge next season), Oliver, O’Day, Kirkman and eventually Scheppers is a pretty solid ‘pen imo. And they could still go after another arm, even if it’s not Soriano.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Frankie looks like he's speed skating...
by ghostofErikThompson on Nov 30, 2010 6:45 PM CST reply actions
or curling...
When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream.
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