OT: Mavs Trade?
by Conjunction on Feb 12, 2010 9:16 PM CST
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There are conflicting reports scattered all over the place and at this point there's little factual evidence anything has gone down. However, the gist of things appears to be that the Mavs have dealt Josh Howard to Washington for Caron Butler.
Most reports state that the trade also involves some combination of Gooden, Singleton, Ross, and a trade exception on our side, and Brendan Haywood, DeShawn Stevenson/Javaris Crittenton from the Wizards'.
In my mind, this trade is a huge win for the Mavs , especially the 2nd incarnation. I don't think Butler's a top notch Scottie Pippen for Dirk, but I do think he'd become the 2nd best player on this team, replacing Josh who was more akin to an anvil than an asset. Getting Haywood added to the deal would be phenomenal; he's a solid, starting-caliber center, while Gooden's a subpar power forward miscast as a defense-allergic center.
Does this put Dallas on LA's level? No. Not remotely. But it brings them a hell of a lot closer.
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If the Mavs
get Caron and Haywood without Roddy B then this is a great trade.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
This was brought up in the thread
about the Aussie catcher making thousands to play in the US. General consensus is it’s a good good for your Dallas Mavs.
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
Mavs trade
Per the Morning News:
“The Mavericks have reached a tentative agreement to send Howard, Drew Gooden and two other players to Washington for swingman Caron Butler, center Brendan Haywood and guard DeShawn Stevenson, numerous NBA sources said Friday.”
The two other players are listed in the article as Singleton and Ross.
"Jesus, Spanish- our jobs aren't enough, now you want our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
I don't know what the plan is for Stevenson
But I’ve always liked him for some strange reason. The LeBron thing was dumb, though.
by brettgardner on Feb 12, 2010 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
Players I hate the most
1.Wade
2. JR Smith
3. Stevenson.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Love me some J.R. Smith
He won me over long ago.
1. Drew Gooden
2. Vince Carter, since a couple of years ag
JR Smith is the one who gets a lot of blocks, right?
I love players that can block shots. Bill Russell would have probably been my favorite ever, had I been alive in the sixties.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
He’s up there for me too, I have a mancrush on Curry.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
That trip-dub he layed down the other night was extremely impressive
so much for him being a boy among men
Yeah, me too...
I spent an embarassing amount of time trying to figure out a way to get him on the Mavs….
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 10:25 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'd love Josh Smith and Joe Johnson.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 13, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Agree on 1 and 3
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
What? Why Wade?
Still pissed about the finals a a few years ago? Out of this upcoming FA class, Wade is the guy I want the most.
Ready for some baseball.
Considering the Mavs got buttfucked out of a championship, yeah I am still pissed.
Not sure why anyone would want Wade over Lebron.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well, let me rephrase that.
There is no way in Hell we are getting LeBron, so Wade is the next best thing.
Ready for some baseball.
I think you could probably say the "no way in Hell" thing about Wade, too.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 13, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think he would be a lot more likely than LeBron.
I don’t think LeBron will make it to FA. He is the Cavaliers. They HAVE to re-sign him. Wade has kind of sent mixed signals about Miami from what I’ve seen. At times he’s said that’s where he wants to be, but other times he’s kinda hinted around that he’s not happy. I wouldn’t be that surprised if they didn’t lock him up and he went on the open market.
Ready for some baseball.
I think they will lock him up
because it comes down to the almighty dollar and they can pay him more than any other team.
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
Maybe, and don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised either way with Wade.
But if he doesn’t want to be there then it doesn’t really matter how much they can offer him. If somebody else offers him a lot of money and he feels he has a better shot at winning another championship with them instead of Miami, he might leave. I think it’s at least a possibility he hits FA.
Ready for some baseball.
That's where I'm at with it too.
Like I said I wouldn’t be totally shocked if Miami locked him up, but I think he’s on his way out. And Dallas just makes too much sense IMO. They need a lights out SG, and he more or less single-handedly kicked their asses in the finals in ‘06 (with a little help from the refs, or so people say anyway). The whole "if you can’t beam ’em, join ’em" thing.
But yeah, LeBron is going nowhere. Cleveland would burn.
Ready for some baseball.
Not True...
He can make just as much through sign and trade, and Miami really wouldnt have much of a choice, they’d rather get something in return than nothing
Hmm..
I haven’t really been a fan of his since he was accused of statutory rape of a 14 year old that plead down to sex with a minor.
by GregoryM on Feb 12, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
it was a while back
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/news/2001/06/20/stevenson_admission_ap/
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 12, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
The best part of that story is definitely that both dudes are named DeShawn.
I’m definitely putting a De of a La in front my kids’ name some day.
It instantly makes a dude like a hundred times cooler.
DeDirkatron.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 13, 2010 2:14 AM CST up reply actions
DeLaHunter
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
It's phony if it doesn't represent your culture in some way
I think “The” is the appropriate prefix for caucasians
and we’re back to TheDirkatron
Wait....
’tron is white?
Who knew?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
I'm as surprised as you are.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 13, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
dallas keeps making solid moves
ever since the devin harris trade…
"Clearly, I've been wrong. VY is awesome." - AJM
I know a hard count when I see one
Staying in my three point stance. :)
by Brett Perryman on Feb 12, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
Cuban's AGon to San Diego.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
You don't think they are comparable?
I’d say Harris to NJ might be worse if only because of the lost draft picks.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
If Cuban does what JD did
after the AGon trade, we’re set for a long time…
After Fuentes blows a save and an Angels loss to the Indians:
"Angels still in first place" - UCI Halo
"Hey you know who would have gotten those 3 outs in the 9th?
Darren O’Day." - FirebatM3
LOL
Except Gonzales is good,
and Howard is just crazy, man.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Not saying anything about Howard.
I’m talking about Devin Harris.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
Oops, my bad
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
I think Kidd is much better...
than anything JD got from San Diego….
In fact I am not sure that the Mavs can out that short on the deal.
by death of the cool on Feb 12, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
The picks hurt.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
Late 1st round picks in the NBA....
are like throwing Darts at a dart board.
by death of the cool on Feb 12, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
But there are very few ways
To infuse talent to your roster in this league. That’s one of the few. You’re allowed 1 shot a year; you can’t afford to give it away.
by Conjunction on Feb 13, 2010 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Give it away?
They certainly got something in return.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 1:08 AM CST up reply actions
Perhaps
I wasn’t trying to say those picks were utterly wasted; more stating that they had value. They’re not throwaway tokens meant to do nothing more but appease the other team’s fanbase.
I think the general point
That late first rounders aren’t a reliable source of talent is pretty sound.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
You can buy one (literally) pretty much every year if you really want.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 13, 2010 2:16 AM CST up reply actions
ding ding ding!
baffles me, the obsession with the lost draft picks
Rangers pitchers and catchers are scheduled to report on Thursday, February 18.
The only one that could have been significant was next years
And that was only if we were going to go rebuild mode. Cuban is going opposite of rebuild, though.
Yeah, exactly
The fact that they’ve held things together made that pick much less of a loss. Where I was wrong in lamenting the loss of the 2010 pick like I did was that I didn’t think that they would be able to hold things together with what they had around Dirk, a really old Kidd and a bunch of bleh. But they have and in a tough conference. I thought that what they’ve looked like here lately was what we would mostly see, but they’ve managed to avoid that so far, and if they can finalize this deal it could well provide a breath of fresh air that helps them trudge through the end of this regular season.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
it's pretty rare for a perennial 50 win team
to reload from the draft
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 12, 2010 11:54 PM CST up reply actions
I hated that deal so much
But I think I was wrong. I never would have guessed Kidd would still be an effective player 2 years after the trade.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 12, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
agreed....
At the time I was the same way, but pairing Kidd with Dirk is one of the main reasons this team has been so good the last few years.
I don’t think we would have been as good with harris,
by death of the cool on Feb 12, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
Harris wouldn't be Jack S
On a decent team.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
This is actually the perfect trade for the Mavs.....
1.We get Butler who is an improvement over Howard
2.We get Haywood who is a HUGE improvement in the middle and can be resigned to take Dampiers place next year
3.We still have the DUST chip (Dampiers voidable contract) to entice a big-name FA next year.
4.We still have Roddy B. that we can develop or package with the DUST chip
The best part about this trade is the fact that we get help this year without hurting our chances of landing a big-time FA next year….in fact it may even help us.
So Toronto is going to lose Bosh? Why not trade him to Dallas for Dampier, Roddy B., and Caron Butler….
by death of the cool on Feb 12, 2010 11:29 PM CST reply actions
I hate that I'm going to say this...
But I don’t think we turn that DUST chip into anything. Too many teams are buyers this time around, too few teams are going to be looking to deal a great player for just salary relief.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 12, 2010 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
It wont just be salary relief.....
The team losing the FA gets nothing if he signs somehwere….
They could get Caron Butler and Roddy B. (and probably some future #1’s) from us along with that salary relief, and the player gets paid just as much ….and gets to go to a contender instead of basement dweller that is rebuilding like NY or NJ (which most teams with cap money is a team rebuilding)
by death of the cool on Feb 12, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not interested in trading Roddy for Joe Johnson.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
But
Joe Johnson is what you hope to get…no?
I mean if you think you can get Lebron or Wade instead, fine. But after that, Joe Johnson is about as close to ideal for SG as there is.
I would do back flips if we acquired Joe Johnson this summer.
I want Johnson badly.
But not for that price—unless we also acquired some other promising young point.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Man.
Completely disagree. Roddy’s peak is going to occur after Dirk’s. If I can get Joe Johnson this summer I will give them Roddy, Calethas, two first round picks basically whatever else they want as far as future assets.
x
Roddy’s peak is going to occur after Dirk’s
That’s what I’m counting on.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
So you think Roddy is going to be a franchise player for a championship level team?
That seems like a stretch.
We should be maximizing our chances for capitalizing while Dirk is still in his prime.
If Damp gets traded for a superstar sign and trade this summer I fully expect for Roddy to go out with him.
Huh?
So you think Roddy is going to be a franchise player for a championship level team?
Who said that?
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Also
I’m not against Roddy leaving per se, just not for Joe Johnson.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm.
What level do you view Joe Johnson at? I can’t come up with too many players in the NBA I’d rather have at SG than Joe Johnson.
He's a great player.
But I think trading in every single asset you have to win in a 1-2 year timespan is the way you become the Minnesota Timberwolves.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
There's some truth to that.
But Joe Johnson is 28. Even as Dirk moves towards his sub-prime years, Johnson could step in as the franchise player.
So who you trade Roddy for?
Paul, LeBron, Kobe, etc.
The usual franchise-changers.
Joe Johnson really can’t be your best player if you want to contend for a title.
As interested as I am in seeing the Mavs go all-in, I’m just as interested in seeing them groom young players for the future.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Paul
I always thought it was asinine that the Hornets would even entertain trading him but the way Collison has been playing I could see a bailout package enticing them.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
If the Mavs could some way get CP3 from New Orleans (I really don't think so)
then I would jump completely off the D Wade bandwagon.
Ready for some baseball.
And I feel I should say
That if Roddy were traded for Johnson, I wouldn’t be mad by any stretch of the imagination. I totally understand the rationale, and it certainly might be a risk worth taking.
Because undoubtedly, holding on to Roddy and hoping he pans out is even more of a risk.
I just happen to think he will.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
You're not alone.
I see a lot of potential in Roddy. I don’t want to give him up really at all, but for a true badass like you listed above I would pull the trigger.
Ready for some baseball.
I love Roddy B
but I’d trade him for Johnson without thinking twice about it
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Well
That’s fine, but you also have to say you’re trading him for Joe Johnson’s monster contract, too.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
I don't follow
You go all in if you have a chance…conserving midlevel talent for after the window closes, I mean…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Feb 13, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
The DUST chip
I thought the real efficacy of it comes from the advantage of being able to pay 2010 free agents more with it. It gives the player agent an incentive to work a sign-and-trade.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Feb 13, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Why do people call Dampier "The DUST chip"
I don’t get it. Everyone calls him that, where did that come from and what does it mean?
Ready for some baseball.
It came from Dallasbasketball.com
they are the ones that first noted that Dampier could be traded for a star FA next offseason because of his voidable contract…they then labeled it the “DUST” chip
by death of the cool on Feb 13, 2010 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure if they were the first to note that
They did coin the term, though.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
NVM just figured it out by reading the article below.
Dampier Ultimate Sign and Trade. Because once it’s used it vanishes like dust. I always figured that’s why they wanted to hold on to him, but never understood why people called it the DUST chip. Now I know.
Ready for some baseball.
That is from the players side....
However The Mavs also must get a team to agree to the deal.
As bad as Bosh might want to come here…if Toronto says “no thanks”, there is not much the Mavs can do. This is where adding some talent comes in….
Toronto might as well get “something” for him if he is not going to be back.
by death of the cool on Feb 13, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think Bosh is particularly interested.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Well
Again, if the DUST chip gives Dallas a greater salary slot to pay a player, the player has a financial incentive to go to Dallas.
At the same time, Dampier’s salary is the financial incentive for the original team – salary relief (plus a pick or minimum salary player or two).
Maybe Bill Simmons’ predictions about teams suffering financially in 2010 is inaccurate, but that scenario made having Dampier’s expiring contract seem like a perfect storm.
This might end up happening after the 2010 season, or maybe they don’t want to waste a year of Kidd (or Dirk or Shawn, etc).
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Feb 13, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
None of that
Has to do with whether Bosh is seeking out Dallas, which death of the cool’s comment seemed to imply.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
Not to belabor this
But I thought the DUST chip gave Dallas a strict more-money-than-anyone-else advantage in bidding on free agents, and a big trade incentive for the free agent’s former team.
I don’t know whether Dallas wants him but I do presume Bosh will take the highest offer, period.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Feb 13, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
Frankly
I’d rather keep Butler and re-sign Haywood than trade for Bosh
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Why? Are people still that pissed about what happened in '06?
Why not just add the guy that pretty much single-handedly beat us? We would be unstoppable.
Ready for some baseball.
I'm just not looking to give him a max deal.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Would you give anybody a max deal then?
Because Wade is pretty close to as good as it gets in this league.
Ready for some baseball.
Very rarely.
I think teams get crippled with those.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
I can see that.
Money aside though, because with the combination of the Dampier trade chip and Cuban as our owner it really doesn’t matter, I think from a player standpoint and what is reasonable as far as a major FA signing goes this summer D Wade makes the most sense.
Ready for some baseball.
It's still Joe Johnson
But it’s not as if you have to get one of these guys.
The starting five we’re going to be rolling out after the break is pretty damn good.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
Right now I disagree.
Not completely though. We’ll see how I feel after the season. I think we do need to add one of those guys, and I’ve felt that way ever since ‘06. Even after adding what we just added, and as good as that makes us, I still don’t think it’s going to put us over the top and be what propels us back into the finals. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think we still need to add that one superstar player. And I think it needs to be a lights out SG. It was a C and a SG, but I think Haywood/Damp kinda pacifies half of that (for now anyway, we’ll see how it pans out).
Ready for some baseball.
That's still beside the point
The original post was intimating that Bosh was looking for some reason to come to Dallas.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
Win
Any trade where we acquire a player with a neck/throat tattoo of Abe Lincoln is a win in my book.
"He's got one of those arms that could throw a marshmallow through a battleship."
- Anonymous Baseball Scout on Neftali Feliz
by theflip44 on Feb 12, 2010 11:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I like that you had to specify the subject matter of the tattoo.
Far too many guys walking around with neck/throat tattoos, apparently.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 13, 2010 1:46 AM CST up reply actions
The trade is an obvious win talent-wise.
And we now have the best center rotation we’ve had in the Dirk era, by a long shot (assuming Damp can get healthy).
I really like Butler, if he can get back to where he was the past few seasons (and he has been playing better of late).
My big question is how Butler fits. If he can’t play with Marion, Dirk, Kidd and a center then that hurts the deal a bit.
But an obvious win of a trade, and we didn’t have to take on much in the way of dead weight salary (other than Stevenson).
Butler would immediately be the starting 2, shifting Marion to 3.
Not sure what the problem would be.
Gracchus (about Obama): I think he knows what America is. America is the mob. Conjure money for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of America is not the paper of the Constitution, it's the power of the media. He'll bring them debt - and they will love him for it.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Feb 13, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
agree
one of the top starting 5’s
kidd
butler(sg/sf)
marion (sf/pf)
dirk (pf)
haywood
////////////////////////////
one of the top reserve cores
terry (sg/pg)
barea (pg)
damp ©
///////////////////////////
decent bench
thomas (pf)
humphries (pf)
roddy (pg)
stevenson (sg)
//////////////////////////////////
the throwaways
najera (pf/c/sf)
carroll (sg/sf)
a little improvement. definitely like the chances to get to the second round at least
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
The second round?
We got to the second round last year with junk.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
I agree.
Too much talent now. You have to win.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
second round at least
depending on seating there’s always the lakers or denver in the 2nd round. not completely confident mavs can beat them, though i’d go at least 60%
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Humphries is gone
And the only thing that could’ve made this a better trade was if Barea ended up in Washington
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Do you re-sign Haywood?
Also, I wish we could have gotten Oberto.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
That has to be the intention, no?
Especially if you parlay the Dust chip into something. I’d have no problem with re-signing him. I think Oberto for the TE still might happen.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Especially if you lose the DUST chip...
…but even if you don’t, aging centers man. Time to get some new blood in there, and the Mavs haven’t exactly had a ton of success drafting at that position in the low rounds.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
We probably will get Oberto
for the DUST chip.
Although “get” isn’t really the word to use. More like “we’ll be forced to take Oberto”. Not that he wouldn’t have a chance to help a little this year, but I’m sure the Mavs would rather not take on that salary and luxury tax.
The problem
is that Butler is not a true SG. So you have to wait and see how that mix is going to work.
I don't see a problem with Butler, Marion, and Dirk play next to each other, though
They all have different skill sets.
I'm more concerned about defensively
Butler is going to have trouble guarding quick shooting guards. Luckily Kidd and Marion give you a lot of flexibility defensively, so I think it will work. But I still want to see how it all shakes out.
I still fear that Terry is going to be part of the group that finishes games during crunch time, and I think that needs to be done on a per-matchup basis.
I don't think it matters too much.
He has the size, speed, and defensive ability to keep up with 2s.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
It matters offensively
I don’t pay close enough attention to be very bold about whether I think it will work, and it should definitely work better than Howard since Butler can isolate and actually dribble the ball. But I don’t know that he can run the two-man stuff that that they like to run with Dirk, and if he can’t it’s still a pretty big problem.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
Also
the threesome that you would like to have play the majority of your 1/2/3 minutes are still collectively pretty terrible at shooting a basketball, which is bad, even on a team with Dirk and Terry.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
You think Butler is terrible at shooting?
I think he takes too many threes, which he’s not good at shooting, but I don’t think he’s a terrible shooter.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
No
I think that they are collectively terrible. I would consider him a little below average for a two from outside, but the main problem is that you have Kidd and Marion in the other two spots. He buoys his percentages quite a bit by being so effective closer to the basket, at least when healthy (according to what I’ve read anyway, I haven’t watched him enough to act like I know him like the back of my hand.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions
This is the confusion
“Shooting.” Shooting from where? Perimeter? Yup, pretty bad. But I assume Carlisle’s job is to get them in their spots.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
If everyone's spots
are within ten feet of the basket, no coach is good enough to do that.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Kinda weird.
Marion and Kidd are both pretty good spot-up three-point shooters.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
Kidd is a good spot-up three point shooter.
But Marion? Yeah, that 8.3% doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in me, not sure why.
As far as Kidd, you know better than to pretend like he doesn’t have major shooting limitations. Don’t just argue with me for the sake of it.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not.
But I don’t see the significance of it.
And if we’re talking about feigning a position, don’t act like you don’t know that 8.3% isn’t incredibly misleading. Dude’s taken a total of 12 shots this season.
He was never a great 3 point shooter in Phoenix, but he did knock down quite a few.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t see how you can feel good about him when he’s taken twelve of them. Why is it even worth pointing out when he never does it in games? If Butler is healthy, I think that he should provide a better offensive outlet than what he’s replacing, but a big problem for Dallas is scoring options when they play a serious lineup that has a chance of playing straight-up against the other team’s best players. Dirk has been flooded late in these games because Dallas can’t do anything to keep the other team honest. The only way the point guard is a scoring factor is if he’s spotting up, and that’s all backwards, and Marion, at this point in his career, needs to receive the ball pretty close to the basket to do much with it. And of course if you’re playing a center, both Haywood and Dampier are limited. My hope is that Butler is effective enough that he turns that around some and keeps people a little more honest. But Kidd and Marion (and Howard) have not been able to do it, and Carlisle has to resort to using Terry and Barea, which is far from ideal.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
I don't really disagree with any of this.
Maybe my point is that I’m not entirely sure that Marion is as ineffective offensively as he appears. It seems that his main role right now is to set screens and look for tip-ins. I’m saying I wouldn’t mind seeing the scheme change a bit so he could float and Kidd could not have to worry as much about being the spot-up guy.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with most of this.
I just think Butler is an accomplished enough isolation player that he’s going to make up for what the team lacks with outside shooting. And really, if Butler is posting up or isolating you have Kidd and Dirk spotting up in spots, and that’s two elite catch and shoot players at this point.
I’m very interested to see what happens to Butler’s offensive game as a whole. Jason Terry was the last player we acquired with anything close to Butler’s ability offensively, and his efficiency went through the roof when he got here and played wing man to Dirk instead of being counted on to score for a bad team.
Butler is a little different because he’s not really a catch and shoot player, but he’s also a more rounded offensive player than Jet so I’m very excited to see what kind of effect this has on him.
How much of that is out of necessity, though?
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
How much of what?
Having someone who can iso is huge in today’s NBA, and they need guys in the guard spot who can run that stuff with Dirk because he’s so good at it and it is so hard to defend.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions
I'm confused.
It’s a common scheme when Terry’s playing because it’s hard to defend and they can both shoot, but Howard didn’t participate too much in that, and I don’t understand how this changes much.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions
Do you ever listen to Carlisle?
He has talked about how it has in fact been a big problem for them that Howard can’t do those sorts of things. So if it doesn’t change, that’s a problem. I think it should change for the better with Butler, as I said, but I don’t know if it will be as much as we’d like. That’s what I’m saying we’ll have to see to really know (unless someone has a great handle on Butler, his health, etc). I think that you might be reading my comments as more negative than they are.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Not negative
I don’t think I understood your point entirely. But I do now.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure about this, but where I think you may disagree with me
in terms of my premise is that, to me, having to rely on Terry playing well for 32-35 minutes of the game is a big problem. If it weren’t, you wouldn’t be that concerned about having another guard who could do it. But particularly against the two big teams in the West, Terry is a big problem for Dallas if they have to match him up with someone for most of the game.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
Well..here's what I was afraid of:
Gina Miller just tweeted:
indication of where butler will play: donnie said he’s a “natural 3” expect him to get most of minutes @ 3.
I’m very excited about Haywood, but if Butler is taking time away from Marion instead of Terry…well that bums me out a bit. This team is in desperate need for a complete offensive swing player that can play alongside Kidd and Marion and move Jet out of the top five players (because he’s so awful defensively).
Still very curious to see how this all plays out, but those comments from Donnie aren’t encouraging.
Carlisle isn't stupid
He’ll handle it
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
I have great confidence in Carlisle.
I have no doubt he’ll put them together the best way possible. I’m just not sure the best way possible for these pieces is ideal. But I’m excited to see.
Here are his comments
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks
“I believe he can play both positions, both the 3 and 2,” Carlisle said of the 6-7 Butler. “I’ve thought about it, but I’m not going to talk about it until I talk to my team. I’ve got to talk to my guys.”
Carlisle said he likes the addition of the 7-foot Haywood to help the ailing Erick Dampier, but Carlisle said he is wary of losing a hustler like Drew Gooden, who has played well for the Mavs in a variety of roles.
“I don’t think there was any doubt that Damp’s health situation influenced this deal happening with Haywood involved,” Carlisle said. “Giving up Drew Gooden with the way he’s been playing, Washington is getting themselves a damn good player.”
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
Well, tell me what you think about this....
There are rumors that the Mavericks may not be done making moves yet, as a Rip Hamilton for Erick Dampier trade seems to make perfect sense.
The Mavericks still have a hole at shooting guard, while the Pistons have too many, and Dampier is still worth of starting at center for the Pistons. It’s far from being a done deal, but the move would seem to make sense for both teams.
giggidy.
Kidd, Hamilton, Butler, Dirk, Haywood.
Ugh I want something more for Dampier
His contract is too valuable for Rip Hamilton.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That would give you a 2 year window
to win a championship before everybody falls apart. I’d pass on Hamilton
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
I think Hamilton's skill-set gives him a few more good years.
I think, at worst, you end up with 1 year of useless Hamilton, which i’m okay with.
40 mil left on his contract?
That’s a ton of money
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
They need to call Nellie and
try to work out a Morrow/Biedrins swap
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Yuck.
That would be highly upsetting.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 14, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think
You can underscore enough just how important it is that we’re getting Haywood. He’s basically a recharged, last-year-in-Golden-State Dampier.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Is Haywood a free agent after this year?
I like the trade (they needed a shake-up) but I’m also leery of players who have been with losing franchises for so long.
.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
by Josey Wales on Feb 13, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Yes.
But the Wizards have made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
I think that’s what is turning this deal from a somewhat even swap (JHo+money for Butler) into a deal that’s a clear win for the Mavs where money/cap flexibility is the biggest thing that the Wiz get back.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
But with worse refs...
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 10:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Which incidentally...
…are relevant to this story, since the Wiz aren’t big sellers without that event.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
But with worse refs...
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 10:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
haywood is the enigma for me
i’ve always liked him but he seems to be a bit of an underachiever. and doesn’t losing gooden hurt a little? i’m not sure what this means but it seemed like whenever the rest of the team was doign crap, gooden was contributing
I was kind of thinking the same thing.
You are losing your one guy who prefers to score his points in the post. Still, you have to lose something to gain something with trades, and Haywood+Butler is definitely gaining something.
Plus his contract status balances out the risk to a large degree.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Post
Yeah, Gooden camps out in the post quite a bit, but have you ever seen so many missed tip-ins in your life?
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
…he can be a frustrating to player to watch. It seems like right when he has a good enough run of games where you think you can start depending on him for it…
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 13, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
True.
But Marion seems to be pretty good at it as well.
by BrentTaylor21 on Feb 13, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Meh.
If they have to rely on Gooden to be their sole contributor, then they have a pretty big problem anyway.
I would prefer not losing Gooden, because he gives us versatility and surprising usefulness, but I think the benefit greatly outweighs the cost.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
well
my point was that it’s nice having someone doing something in a game when nobody else is. leaves open the possibility of the team getting back in the game.
Oh I understand.
But I guess I’m saying you just have to have other guys step up, or else you’re not anywhere close to a contender.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I don't buy that
and losing Gooden definitely hurts. What he does was a pretty big need before they got him, so losing him hurts. However that is easily outweighed by what Haywood means to them, I think.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
You don't buy that?
So you think LA is going to fold if Shannon Brown can’t bring the goods?
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
No
I don’t buy that it’s smart to dismiss the loss of Gooden by just saying ‘if they have to rely on him they’re in trouble.’ He is a good player in the role he had on this team and is someone you could win with. Particularly since they don’t have anyone to replace him (as a physical four), it’s a pretty big loss.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
That's a distortion of what I said, I think.
ab said:
it seemed like whenever the rest of the team was doign crap, gooden was contributing
And I said:
If they have to rely on Gooden to be their sole contributor, then they have a pretty big problem anyway.
I don’t disagree with ab’s point. Gooden was always an energy player and I said I wish he were still here.
My point was really that if the entire roster is completely flat except a role player like Drew Gooden, then you have a problem.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
I thought that you were disagreeing with his point, which I agreed with.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
That is a matter of necessity
and matchups.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Actually
I think you’re saying that Marion is a better four than Gooden. The answer to that is that Marion cannot defend true fours.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
Disagree on Gooden
Is negative effect on defense was a huge counter balance to what he provided offensively. It’s not really his fault. You have to have a rim defender next to Dirk.
Let's say you're playing
against Chris Bosh. Dirk is on the floor against him for 26 minutes and not for the other 10. Are you going to defend Bosh with Dirk for all of those 26 minutes and Haywood or Dampier for the other ten?
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
Damp guards Bosh when we play the Raptors.
Not sure why Haywood wouldn’t guard Bosh now.
I’m not saying there aren’t matchups where Gooden would still help this team. But he wouldn’t be a regular rotation player on this current roster, imo, so his replacements is not critical. It would be nice though.
Yeah
I disagree on that rotation matter. This team had a threesome of Dampier, Diop and Dirk to deal with bigs before and had a huge problem with quality fours, even more when Dirk was on the bench when he was in the game. Because of the size of frontcourt threats these days, you need someone physical and mobile enough to deal with them. Having gotten rid of the two guys on the roster who could do that, they’re back to where they used to be, with a hole there. I don’t know that it’s a terminal issue or anything, but to whatever degree they have to deal with that sort of matchup, it’s a problem.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
I liked the energy Gooden brought be he’s not a defensive asset against anyone.
If we’d just traded Kurt Thomas I could see the argument, but not Drew Gooden.
While Gooden did some nice things playing a lot of minutes
You’re not going anywhere with a Dirk-Gooden front-court. Dirk-Haywood gives you the size and strength to hang with the big boys.
I actually feel just the opposite about Haywood, never liked him, and I think he has worked extremely hard to become a good player compared to what he was coming out of college. Injuries have really killed him.
well
i always liked his size. he was one of the few people in the league who looked like a center and flashed center potential. but the reason you hated him is what i’m referring to as underachieving.
i haven’t followed the wizards much so not sure if he’s become a more consistent player
The similarities
Between Haywood and Damp are actually startling.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
I thought Gooden was decent in Dallas
but I also read something from Bill Simmons about him knowing the Spurs were in trouble last year when they acquired Gooden.
He said Cleveland and Chicago couldn’t stand having him on their team and that both teams became better when they traded him.
Don’t know if you have his book or not but the Bill Simmons Basketball Book has become one of my all-time favorite sports books.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Gooden had some good moments
But he is NOT a center and is a bad defender. Haywood is an actual center and plays very solid defense.
The question will be if he can play against Denver and Nene.
by SaltyDawg on Feb 13, 2010 12:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Gooden
Puts up pretty numbers, but his defense is Barea-ish and he’s not really a center.
by Conjunction on Feb 13, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
the one thing i do like
is that oberto might still be a possibility – and that would definitely help. another guy i’ve always liked. very smart, savvy
So do I
It seems pretty dumb that on a trainwreck of a team, the young promising center can’t sniff the court.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
If the Mavs heisted McGee in this deal
Huge mega win.
I can’t see it happening. Blatche on the other hand I could see. If he was the guy coming back for the TPE it would save the Wiz more money than Oberto.
Nick Young is the 4th name mentioned for the TPE.
Order of most likely: Oberto, Blatche, Young, McGee
Order of most wanted: McGee, Blatche, Young, Oberto.
I would take any of them though
by SaltyDawg on Feb 13, 2010 12:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Assuming this trade goes through...
…doesn’t this team more and more resemble Denver?
Kidd-Billups
Haywood-Nene
Melo-Dirk
Martin-Marion
Smith-Terry
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Well...
….it does give us some neck tattoos that were desperately needed when being compared with the Nuggets
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
Wooo!
Actually, not really that excited. But they had to do something after crawling into the break on about one toe.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
Well, I was excited when we picked up Marion...
Just want to see what they do coming out of the break first.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
Caron Butler and Brendan Heywood are pretty big upgrades over Howard and Gooden.
Gooden as a Center anyway. It would be cool if they bought him out after 30 days and the Mavs re-signed him but I doubt that happens. Only thing about this trade is it leaves them kinda thin at Forward. Still makes them better though.
Ready for some baseball.
Well, if they do the rumoured Stevenson/Warrick swap...
And of course, if Gooden gets to come back, then they’re just stacked:
PG: Kidd/Beaubois
SG: Butler/Terry/Barea
SF: Marion/Warrick
PF: Dirk/Gooden
C: Haywood/Damp
That’s an 11-man rotation. Right now, it’s at 9.5 (if you think Stevenson will do some stuff).
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
Whoa
I haven’t heard about this Stevenson/Warrick swap.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
A very, very unreliable source.
My bad.
According to a guy I know, a Bucks fan who reads RealGM, apparently “two dudes with insider information who’ve been pretty right in the past” on the Bucks board texted that there was something going on along those lines.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
I think Stevenson sucks.
But I haven’t heard of a Stevenson/Warrick swap. Link?
Ready for some baseball.
Yeah...
Don’t read too much into that
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Actually, I think he has a whole lot of respect for Dirk.
Just from hearing him talk about Dirk from time to time.
No doubt
But even Mark Cuban doesn’t consider this team to be on par with LAL unless he’s immensely drunk.
Man.
The only bad contract we had to take on was Stevenson. We sent back Ross’s small salary for next year to offset Stevenson (and saved a bit on Singleton’s contract this season) and the official report on ESPN.com says the Wizards are sending US cash considerations.
That is one heck of a trade.
Yeah.
I would have preferred to keep Ross. Not a whole lot of guys in the NBA that can play defense like that. But the rest of his game is terrible and Stevenson isn’t terrible defensively so he can fill that role to some extent.
I just can’t believe we just took on talent in a full on salary dump without really taking on that much bad salary. It’s just bizarre.
It's not going to happen but
I saw a rumor that had the Mavs giving up some extra dough so Gooden can be bought out and re-signed.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Something has to happen
If Damp is out for any appreciable length of time, we’ve got nothing except creative lineups.
Oberto or Gooden will suffice.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't been all over this
but I’m not seeing anyone but DB who really thinks Oberto is coming here. I’d like it I think, but Stein, et al kind of poopoo’d that today from what I heard.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't heard it anywhere else, either.
And I won’t cry if it doesn’t, but we need some sort of body back there.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
Meh
Before the trade we had Damp and Gooden, now we have Haywood and Damp.
I think they’ll definitely pick up a body (they have two open roster spots right now) but I wouldn’t call it a huge need at this point.
I don’t think it’s out of the question that the Wizards release Gooden.
I know he's hurt.
But they have the option of slotting Haywood into the starting slot and limiting Damp’s minutes on a regular basis.
I’m not real hung up on Oberto or even Gooden, because neither of them can guard the rim. If you’re going to play a center that can’t guard the rim, I’d just as soon slide Dirk to center and play Marion and Butler at the forward spots for stretches.
Except if Dirk gets in foul trouble
You’re totally fucked.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think finding someone for that role is as easy or as inconsequential as you’re suggesting. Yes, Dirk plays 37-38 power forward minutes, but a lot of the good front court players in the NBA are guys who athletically speaking you’d like to have someone that size to use some fouls and defend them, not a true center, and there is a certain physicality that guy offers.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
We found someone for the role.
His name is Haywood. And he’s a real center a huge upgrade over Gooden.
Shawn Marion is the backup PF and has been all season.
I’d love to have Gooden back as a situational player, but that’s what he’d be if everyone is healthy. He wouldn’t have a regular spot in the rotation because both Haywood and Marion are better players and better fits in most matchups.
Marion is a small forward
Playing him at the four doesn’t address any of what I said, neither does Haywood. You cannot deal with Chris freaking Bosh or Amare or any quality offensive four with Shawn Marion.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
Again
Shawn Marion has been the backup PF all season. Historically, PF has been his best position because of the mismatch he creates offensively and his ability to hold his own defensively.
Shawn Marion spent time guarding Bosh the last time we played the Raptors. It’s not ideal, but neither is Drew Gooden because he’s a bad defender…against anyone.
Using defense as an argument for bringing Gooden back is bizarre to me. He adds no defensive value. Hell I’d rather have Najera agitate someone that have Gooden on the floor just to play defense.
How does Haywood not address what you said? Damp guards tons of offensive PF’s, including Gasol and Bosh. Haywood will be able to as well, and he’s significantly more agile than Damp so I would be curious to see him against a Nene or Amare.
We’re just going back and forth on the same point for the most part, so I won’t keep pointing out that neither Dampier nor Marion are anywhere near the size/mobility of the guys we’re talking about and therefore don’t match up right, only for you to point out that they’re good players and Gooden isn’t.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
My preference
Is to have good defensive players that maybe don’t matchup quite perfectly vs someone that has the ideal size and mobility but sucks at defense.
Wait, we do.
Norah Jones. She’s worth whatever she’d cost.
by brettgardner on Feb 13, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
State it.
Listened to her new album yet?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 14, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
Not mainstream enough
The NBA doesn’t really cater to the Jazz crowd.
And yeah, I know she’s branching out now. But she’s still known primarily as a jazzist.
Norah Jones, terrific jazz hands.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 14, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
x
So who exactly does Erykah Badu cater to?
by brettgardner on Feb 14, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
And
I hope you’re not trying to suggest that she’s more mainstream than Norah Jones, cause that’s laughable.
by brettgardner on Feb 14, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever happened to that tall, goofy girl who had a crazy voice....she acted in some films....can't remember her name.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 14, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions
lol....neg
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 14, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
Macy Gray from Training Day?
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Did not intend the cheap rhyme.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Yes. That is her.
I actually remembered while in slumber.
Or maybe it was me hearing you type it out?
Weird.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 15, 2010 7:26 AM CST up reply actions
Missed the moneyballs but he'll be alright
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Is the crowd always this quiet during events like this?
I’ve never really watched before
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
Hah
“Keven Mchale rolling over in his grave” He’s alive Charles
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
The late great Kevin McHale!
Deion would be proud.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I laughed HARD at that.
Kevin McHale did analysis on the Butler/Howard trade with Chuck right after that brutal HORSE competition.
Charles Barkley is the only thing keeping me interested in tonights shenanigans
He’s had some awesome one-liners tonight.
by TooLegitToQuit on Feb 13, 2010 8:56 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Like
calling Omri Casspi “Omar” or Kevin McHale dead?
by Brett Perryman on Feb 13, 2010 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
Of all the movies I've seen
number 1 on the “Most Watched List” is a tie between RoboCop and Dances With Wolves. I’m glad someone got my reference.
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
One of the better shooters in NBA history
Come on now
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Shannon Brown will win this
Wallace could make a run at it too
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
This Dunk Contest sucks ass.
LeBron, just do the damn thing once.
Jordan, Vincesanity, Kobe have alllllll done it.
by TooLegitToQuit on Feb 13, 2010 9:33 PM CST via mobile reply actions
well i went to get a shake
and I have it paused, just un-paused. After reading this, though. I’m not sure it’s worth watching.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
The dunk contest was brutal.
I’m not sure why I continue to watch it every year.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
Look like
we didn’t include the Trade Exception in the deal and we got cash back from Washington.
Nice deal.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Haywood on 1310 in 10 minutes
Sporting News national show on right now.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Sounds like a cool, smart dude.
Very excited to get traded here, playing with a HOFer like Kidd, one of the best players-Dirk, and the best owner in the league. Is looking forward to Carlsisle’s plays, he is known for having a very thick playbook.
Will be here Monday for 1st practice, hoping to play a bunch in the back-to-back Tues & Wed.
Oh, and he heard the deal was very likely done Friday, and 100% final Saturday morning early, so there is your timeline.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Concur
I thought he was well spoken and sounded like a good dude. He’s very excited and sounded pretty earnest about wanting to get here as soon as possible to contribute.
Those moron interviewing him couldn’t draw him offsides talking about the Arenas situation either.
That was effed up
3 times…really?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Camby to the Blazers for Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw
Good pickup for both teams. Blazers need Camby bad.
Hmm
While I feel that that’s a MUCH more realistic trade than some of the other proposals we’ve heard, I’d have a hard time not being underwhelmed.
I really love Morrow. And Turiaf is exactly the kind of guy we need right now. But it feels like we should be able to get another guy.
But then, my proposal is more of a summer-type deal, and I’m guessing that yours is one that would happen right now.
by brettgardner on Feb 16, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
May be able to get Wright, as well...
Cuban could throw 2-3 million in cash their way. Save them about around 5 million in actual money this year. Then they can use Damp to go after Bosh or more realistically pair Damp with Randolph for Al Jefferson.. since I saw they may be looking to move him for a young talented SF. GS desperately needs to consolidate their assets into a real basketball team.
what prompted me to look at the Warriors was this…
And according to Tim Kawakami of the Mercury News, the Warriors may also go that route and ask for some money in return in any deal: “Warriors might go Clipper route: Include $3 million in your offer and Robert Rowell/Chris Cohan will talk about giving away anybody on roster, except Stephen Curry,”he tweets.
I know BG is higher on Jordan Hill than I am
but that would be disgusting. Plus he’s supposedly heading to Houston in the McGrady deal.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
Yeah, It's hard to believe Houston could pull that off, but the Knicks are desperate to clear salary, I guess
I’m not all that high on Hill either, so I wouldn’t do it.
i'm rec'ing this to keep it up top
so i’m gonna want to talk this game tonight, and continued trade speculation. I may create a new fanpost tonight, though.
start a new thread instead
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Good chance Gooden will be back.
Drew Gooden is expected to be bought out by the Wizards, according to Adrian Wojnorowski, further enhancing the value of Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee.
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