Neftali Feliz, and Why I Don't Trust Ron Washington
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 20, 2010 2:18 PM CST
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PrintSo, Evan Grant has a blog post up about Neftali Feliz's role with the team in 2010, in which Mike Maddux basically says that Feliz's role in 2010 will depend on what is best for the team, and his role in 2010 is going to relate to just his relate in 2010, and not what his role is going to be going forward. Which seems to be his way of saying, just because Feliz (most likely) is going to be a reliever in 2010 doesn't mean that he's going to be a reliever from here on out.
Which makes sense, and is what one would expect. But then this part jumped out at me:
When he was asked which pitcher he'd want if he was starting a team from scratch, Maddux said "there are more closers than there are aces, so probably an ace." But asked if he could have either one, a true ace or a front-line closer for this staff, Maddux's response was: "It depends on the rest of the staff."
And just for the sake of variety, manager Ron Washington said, he'd rather have the closer. "There is no substitute for a guy who can shut down so many games down."
I've said before I question whether Ron Washington is the right guy to manage this team long-term, and I'd feel a whole lot less confident about this team's chances going forward if Washington had the sort of role with the organization, and the amount of control, that, for example, Buck Showalter did.
And this sort of comment just drives that point home to me.
I don't understand how anyone knowledgeable could reasonably say they'd rather have a top notch closer than a legit ace. It is just not a defensible position to take.
Yes, a closer can shut down a bunch of games. 60, if used really aggressively and if there are a lot of close games.
But even a Mariano Rivera isn't as valuable as a legit #1 starter. A Mariano Rivera is going to pitch 75 innings per season. And a few of those are going to be in games where there's a big deficit or a big lead, and he just needs work. Quite a few of those innings are going to be with a 3 run lead, where a "shut down" closer is going to likely have about the same impact as Jamey Wright would.
A legit ace, meanwhile, is going to pitch 190-220 innings, every fifth day. He's going to start 33-35 tie ball games, and pitch 2.5-3 times the innings that a shut down closer is going to pitch. There's no way a shut down closer is as valuable as a legit ace. And for that matter, I think there's a legitimate question as to whether a shut down closer is even worth as much as a quality #3 starter, all things considered.
In any case, the decision on what Feliz's role is going to be, going forward, isn't really going to be in Ron Washington's hands. Mike Maddux, and Jon Daniels, and Nolan Ryan, and a few other folks are going to have more say in that decision than Washington will.
And given his views on the relative value of an ace versus a closer, we should be thankful for that.
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Really?
It seems like JD, Maddux and Nolan are making most of the really important decisions.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Like what?
I am curious.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Like his handling of Cruz.
Either the FO is down on Cruz as well, which seems wrong, or they’re okay with Wash mismanaging him, which is worse.
Also bullpen mismanagement. The first time he does something stupid with the pen, he should be in the office being told that doesn’t happen again. By virtue of the fact that he does stupid stuff more than once with the pen, I’m guessing that’s not happening.
So how did we win so much last year
Was it all of our talent. He didn’t mismanage Cruz. Cruz hasn’t earn the right to suck for a month and still play every day. After the All-Star break Cruz was pretty bad last year. He certainly wasn’t as good as Murphy or Byrd. He also had curious defensive lapses. Cruz is still a major question mark. If he hits 30 plus homers again this year then I think it will be different. Wash also did fine with the bullpen as a whole. Sure he made mistakes but so does every other manager.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Feb 20, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
So, Cruz = Question Mark
Murphy = ….?
He horribly mismanaged Cruz, both with respect to overall playing time and where he hit the guy in the order.
We son 87 games last year because we got breakout years from Hunter and Feldman, and dramatically improved defensive play from, among others, Nelson Cruz.
He did not horribly mismanage Cruz
Cruz is an unproven commodity. He started great but wasn’t consistent offensively or defensively. So where would you have batted him? Also he is a good defensive player but he does make a lot of mistakes out there. I have never seen a more talented fielder take worse angles to fly balls. This seems like a lack of concentration. That’s the kind of thing that will lose you playing time especially when your not hitting.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Feb 20, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it's pear time, fellas
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
OT: I was linked to the DeviantArt account of the girl who originally drew that pear.
Before the “LOLWUT” was a part of it.
She has a fascination with penises. Most of her art is surreal like that, but most of them are dicks. It’s kind of creepy.
Phallas?
Phyllis, sorry. I’ve got penises on the brain.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Sounds like a girlfriend I used to have in college.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
x
Cruz before the ASB: 263/326/539
Cruz after the ASB: 255/342/497
Murphy after the ASB: 263/319/449
Byrd after the ASB: 281/331/485
So, yeah, Cruz wasn’t as good as Murphy or Byrd… on Bizarro world.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Your right
it was June that he totally sucked. Then he got hurt in August and was very average in September. So April and especially May he was an all-star. The rest of the year he was just another guy.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Feb 20, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
He had a 677 OPS in June
After posting an 888 OPS in April and a 999 OPS in May.
If a 677 OPS for a month is going to get a player benched because he hasn’t proved himself, you’re basically never going to have a player who is going to get consistent playing time who hasn’t spent 2-3 years in the majors already.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 20, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think this can possibly be a serious post.
If it is I’ll give it a serious response, but I’m guessing it’s sarcastic.
Is it that hard to believe someone disagree's with you
It’s like you guys think Cruz is HOF. The dude has had a few good months. Hopefully he has turned the corner. He look’s a lot like a low average high power guy. We can certainly use that. He will fit in nicely in the 6 or 7 hole. I guess you think we should pencil him in the 4 hole. Is he a 40/40 guy this year?
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Feb 20, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
…minor league performance is basically pixie dust…and you know how unreliable pixies are.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 20, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
It's very easy to believe someone disagrees with me.
It’s very difficult to believe someone agrees with you.
by philkid3 on Feb 20, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow
I’m not the stuck up one putting down any opinion that disagree’s with your own. Are you capable of backing up your opinion’s that you state as fact?
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
by SoonerSlayer on Feb 20, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
lol
Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot-oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such-and-such.
Rock Flag & Eagle Radio: Thursdays, 10 PM - 1 AM, on FM 88.7 The Choice, or online @ ktcu.net!
No, not any opinion.
Just silly ones. Like yours.
A .368 wOBA (second on the team) starts as many games as possible (especially when it’s coming with good defense) and doesn’t bat near the bottom of the line-up, especially when no one in the organization is doing any better. That is not what happened.
Not sure I need a whole lot of backing up on this one. It’s kind of like simple logic. It’s not like he was a nobody with no physical skills who was barely outplaying the 25th man.
by philkid3 on Feb 20, 2010 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
But but but
He only OPS’d 821 in the cleanup spot!
Only 821!
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
And I would like to point out I wasn't originally mocking you.
I just honestly thought you were being sarcastic. And, frankly, I still think you might just be a troll, because this is a little out there.
Uh, oh....he went there with Cruz ("curious defensive lapses")
I agree with you per Cruz, SSlayer but negatory on him handling the bullpen well..
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Catch the Tech UT game?
Tech dissapointed yet again. I don’t understand how much longer Knight can stay around with that kind of a contract and still not make the dance. Something has to give.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I am bookmarking BG saying something to me that's not blasting my ass.
Even if it is a Mike E. comment. : )
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
My biggest problem with JD is he currently employs his manager too much.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
But, yeah, closers are much more valuable.
They appear in like three times as many games as a starter. Give me someone who impacts more games, obviously.
To be sincere, though, I think this is a very good question:
And for that matter, I think there’s a legitimate question as to whether a shut down closer is even worth as much as a quality #3 starter, all things considered.
The replacement level for relief pitchers is only a hair below average for an MLB pitcher (on a per-inning basis). An average pitcher is going to be in about the range, given even distribution, of the better #3 starters in the league. The total production from the best of the best among relievers is, yeah, about as valuable as the better #3 starters. So, yeah, outside of the tops in the league, I think a #3 is unquestionably more valuable, and even among the Riveras and Nathan’s it’s pretty close.
That's the other issue: Longevity.
How many closers are truly great over a 4 year basis? But there are plenty of guys who can give you 180+IP of average starting pitching for multiple years. The issue is that it’s hard for a closer to maintain that level of dominance without getting hurt or flaming out for a 3-5 year period.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 20, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Must be from all those years
watching Ron Davis close it out.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Blah, blah, blah
Manufactured angst.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
by Rodney on Feb 20, 2010 2:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Because any major decission like this one
Will not be left up to the manager, on this or almost any other team.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
It sounded like it, but I'll reread and see if I get it.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Adam, am I right in saying
your point is the fact that you just don’t trust Wash? FWIW, I don’t trust him either and this point seems to drive it home. You have a top-notch pitching coach who’s point of view runs counter to the manager’s and we consider Maddox to be very knowledgeable about the game. This seems to be a microcosm of RW as a manager. He just doesn’t seem to always “get it”.
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
Well
My main point was that I read that and metaphorically did a facepalm over our manager making a comment like that, although, as I thought I made clear, at the end of the day the issue is lessened by the fact that he has less power than, I think, most managers do.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 20, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, even if he doesn't have power to do anything with it. . .
. . . it’s incredibly frustrating to hear the manager of your favorite baseball team say something so asinine about baseball.
There's been a lot of that around here lately.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
this is the one thing where i find you annoying
nobody is manufacturing angst here but you just love to point out nonexistent manufactured angst
Ah yes.
I’ve used that word 14 times in over 2 years…I’ll hafta switch up my vocab…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Oh. I thought this was going to be about how Wash will ruin Feliz's arm through overuse, which I think
is a more pressing concern than whether Wash believes a closer is more important than an ace.
Basically, if Wash thinks Feliz should be run out there multiple days in a row because he’s a shut down guy, then I think it will be up to JD to get Feliz out of Wash’s hands, and in that sense I agree with you in that JD might not have had that authority under a setup like Buck had here.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
There are the two issues
Wash’s crazy ability to possibly overuse Feliz which I’m sincerely worried about and Wash’s idiocy to ever think a pitcher is more valuable out of the ’pen.
Maybe he’s trying to warm CJ up to the possibility that pitching out of the pen is better because you can pitch in more games.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
It would be great if Wash were that smart, but I think CJ is smarter than that and would see right through it,
even if Wash were smart enough to try it.
They did a good job with limiting abuse of Holland last year, but I, like you, am much more concerned with the potential for Wash to abuse Feliz.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Agreed
Didn’t Wash say something about being able to use Feliz “4 or 5 times per week” as reliever, instead of only once or twice per week as a starter, so that mean’s Neftali would be more valuable as a reliever?
I might be a little off with that. But I seem to recall our genius field general saying something like that early in the offseason.
Welp folks it's officially spring training!
We got us some CJ drama and we got Wash pissing people off, this sounds hauntingly familiar, now all we need is some pitcher to show up FAT and Nolan to get involved.
I did not ask you if you have herpes. I said is that a hairpiece?!?
by BigGuns on Feb 20, 2010 2:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well, Lackey signed elsewhere, so....
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
does Saltalamacchia work for Nolan?
hit post too early last time.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
spring training
I could go except for two problems. No ticket and I am not now or have I ever been a pitcher but I could show up FAT. That last part is real easy for me.
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
When I read that Worsh quote I wondered if you'd jump on it.
I think you kinda mollify your own worries tho’ by inferring the amt of real power Worsh has in the org. He’s never gonna be the decision-maker so even the odd quirky POV isn’t a franchise death-knell much less a road-bump. Just Worsh being Worsh – no mgr’s perfect. The FO won’t let Worsh ruin things.
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that when the org decision is finally made to designate Neftali a starter Worsh will expound about how much more valuable an ace is over a closer. heh
whatever role Feliz has is, by default, more valuable
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
yeah - I thought this line from the FWST Foul Territory notes
should be tattooed to every Ranger fans’ forehead —
Feliz will fill the role that helps the Rangers win the most, and if he is a reliever, it won’t detract from his potential future as a starting pitcher.
It's true though.
Maddux, the FO and Nolan to a certain extent will make the call. Not to sound too much like Josey, but Wash’s opinion is fairly meaningless here.
I think AJM's greater point that he doesn't trust Wash is valid, though.
He still uses his insanity to do things like mismanage bullpens and underutilize All-Star caliber cruz missiles.
The point I get out of this is that Wash doesn't need to be the Manager of the team
if he has no power. Why not bring in a guy who does make good decisions and someone you don’t have to strip power away from to be the manager? Wash seems to be a good guy and gets things out of his players some might, but an assistant can do that.
The manager position is an inefficient one on this team. Does that sound about right?
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
After rereading, I thought it was more about how the Rangers have their chain of command in order, finally.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
I can agree with that.
I’m just annoyed/concerned that the chain of command has the manager right above the bat boy. Not that Wash shouldn’t be there. But most managers aren’t that far down the power pole.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Managers
FWIW, the Rangers aren’t the only team whose manager is fairly powerless- a certain divisional rival of ours run by Mr. Beane does things pretty much the same way.
"Jesus, Spanish- our jobs aren't enough, now you want our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
If I remember correclty, it was in Moneyball that Beane said he likes Art Howe. . .
. . . because he just sits their and nods.
There’s a passage in there that often makes us think of our team. Beane is getting pissed at Howe for using relievers stupidly, in particular not using his best guys in the highest of leverage situations and using awful guys in positions that are more than mop-up duty. Howe defends it as “if the guy is on my roster I’m going to give him opportunities,” basically.
Makes me wonder how often that goes on in our place (though I can’t imagine JD being anywhere near as volatile as Beane).
I think that's the way it should be, though.
I think most progressive front offices today take a lot of power from their managers. I get the sense from DRays Bay that Maddon also has very little power (and, btw, makes similarly insane game decisions as Wash). The A’s managers never have any power whatsoever. The Red Sox have given Francona more power than I think they would have otherwise because he has been open in embracing a lot of their ideals. He’s mentioned how much he’s learned from Bill James before. Similarly, the Yankees I think give Girardi a lot of power because I think he, too, is a pretty smart guy (the man is apparently a heavy Baseball Prospectus advocate). Not that I think the Yankees are necessarily the same variety of psuedo-Moneyball styled FO as the rest.
Anyway, yeah, unless, and perhaps even if, the manager is a bright, forward-thinking baseball person who advocates the front office’s ideals, I don’t want him to have any power outside of motivating his troops.
Concur.
(Run-on sentence warning) But unless JD or Nolan is on the other end of that phone Wash is using in the dugout when he makes a pitching change, I’m bothered. If I get what you’re saying correctly, the managers job is to motivate players, make bullpen decisions, and lineup setup/changes.
If that’s the case, Wash is 1 for 3 in that regard. While .333 is a good average as a player, I’m not too high on it being what I want the manager to be getting.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Yup.
And the lineup and bullpen changes should reflect what the FO wants done with the roster. So if we as fans are right (and that if should be stated) about the things we see him doing wrong, either the FO is wrong too or they give him too much leeway.
Adam, good points.
I can’t stand Washington at all!!! He’s a “people” person and players like him, that’s the only thing going for him. He’s a guy I would want as an assistant and have a more intelligent individual as the manager.
by Coolbean04 on Feb 20, 2010 2:33 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Durrett article
Maddux was asked Saturday if he’d rather have a frontline starter or a top closer.
.
“There are more closers than aces, so probably an ace,” Maddux said. “But it depends on what the staff looks like.”
.
Washington didn’t hesitate when he said closer.
.
“There’s no substitute for a guy who can shut a game down,” Washington said.
Mustache Jesus will keep Worsh in line.
x
"There’s no substitute for a guy who can shut a game down," Washington said.
Except a guy who can shut a game down from the 1st pitch to the 27th out.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
by rooster on Feb 20, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I do recall (which is shorthand for 'I'm too lazy and too short on internet skills to look it up')
That Thad did one of his intensive studies on team structures that were successful over the last decade and one of the things he found was that a high-end closer was closely tied to a team’s success in the playoffs (which I thought was probably skewed by the Yankees and Rivera, but whatevs).
So… maybe the FO kinda agrees on the whole ‘Closers are awesome’ line of thinking, but they have some science behind it.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
The playoffs are a different thing.
Without the numbers in front of me, I think a good closer becomes much, much, much more valuable in a short series where elimination in a couple games is on the line. Similarly, a top-heavy rotation can be just as good as an even rotation in the regular season, but becomes much more valuable in the playoffs.
I still can’t imagine them being more important than a #1 or 2 starter, though, and they’re certainly not in the regular season.
Lets say a closer is that valuable for a second:
Scheppers – Closer
Feliz – in the rotation
Problem solved
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Feb 20, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Right
Which I think is how things will end up shaking out, if they both are healthy.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 20, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
That would be a great problem to have.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
MIght not have been Thad. Nate Silver found the three best predictors of postseason success are
K/9, shut down closer, defense.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Yep, I remember reading that
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
That sounds like the ticket
I think Thad’ study was that 90-95% of hitters reach their career norms at 750 PA’s
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
How short of a leash is Washington on?
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
x
I did not ask you if you have herpes. I said is that a hairpiece?!?
by BigGuns on Feb 20, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha :-)
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Feb 20, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, that's a mighty short leash.
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
I like Wash and think he can take this team where they want to go
but…..if they struggle out of the gate this year he’s toast.
I finally jumped off...
the Wash wagon late last year. One of the last LSBers to do so I believe. I know I defended him quite a few times, but I just couldn’t do it any longer. What finally did it for me was the last 3 or 4 weeks of the season the guy was releasing stupid quotes like they were going out of style. One after another. I believe one of them was about Feliz and the ’pen.
Sadly it looks like he’s going to pick up right where he left off. So help me, if Wash fights to keep Feliz in the ‘pen and actually gets his way, I’m going to choke a bitch.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Easy there Wayne Brady...
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I've never been as down on Wash as a lot of LSB.
Not because I think he isn’t an idiot, but because I think a manager isn’t very important and his testicles should be cut off by the front office. A good manager is a good thing to have, but you can absolutely win the World Series with a bad one, so if the players like him, whatever, make them happy.
The important thing, though, is the castration, and I’m worried the FO might not keep Wash in his place enough. And if they don’t, his mistakes would be their mistakes as well.
Yah, that pretty much sums up my opinion on managers, too.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 20, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Art Howe?
Billy Beane would really like you!
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
Yep
As long as we hit cutoff men and don’t make a shit-ton of errors
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 20, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not off yet
I agree he was shooting his mouth a little much after the season (hwo the team needed Marlon and dismissing Borbon) but it sounds like he’s with the program now. I think the latest is just a dumb comment made about hypotheticals. No real harm there. It’s not like he’s the final decider on Naftali’s role.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
So GUT would rather have a closer than a legit ace who will go out and stop a losing streak and win a must-win game...
He’d rather have a closer in Game 1 of the ALCS than a legit frontline sit-the-fuck-down starting pitcher..
Just stop granting interviews.
by TooLegitToQuit on Feb 20, 2010 3:09 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Does anyone else read this as Maddox not exactly disagreeing with Worsh though?
He kind of hemmed and hawed, which should be troubling as well.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
If Ceej goes to the rotation I think we see Neffy as closer.
Cause no way does Two Frank last all year without at hitting the DL for at least a little, and if not 2Frank and not Ceej… who else are gonna go with? Oliver? Scheppers? Strop? …?
Nah, it’d pretty much have to be Neffy, and no fuckin’ way does he ever let go of the closer’s role if he gets his fiery little beast hands on it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 20, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
Chris Ray.
Apparently he looks beastly in camp so far.
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence." -- Vince Lombardi
Yah, forgot about him...
Maybe.
Let’s hope so anyways.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Feb 20, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
I took it to mean that Maddux realizes, unlike media types who want easy quotes, that these answers aren't black and white, cut and dried
There are lots of factors that have to be considered in answering questions like that.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
by WestTxAg06 on Feb 20, 2010 4:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think he understands
you can’t answer that question until you get there, and understand the circumstances at that time.
Q
“Things change,” said pitching coach Mike Maddux. “We’re going to stretch him and then at some point in Spring Training we’ll all get our heads together and decide which way we are going to go. Injuries happen. Right now we have a lot of starters, but will we have a lot of starters five or six weeks from now?”
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Yeah, I'm not exactly confident that Maddux will be the one keeping Wash in line, as suggested above
I do believe we’ve heard Maddux say in the past he prefers Feliz in the bullpen.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Colby Lewis on the Ticket @ 4:30, fwiw
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I first read the headline as
Neftali Feliz – “Why I don’t trust Ron Washington.”
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
Me too.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
I did too.
I was thinking “GODDAMN WILSON GOT HIS HANDS ON FELIZ!!!”
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
would it be completely out of line
for someone in the FO to try to explain the concept to Wash until he gets it? or is the pronouncement just going to come down eventually like it or not?
No, it wouldn't be.
And they should be.
But, have you ever tried to explain some sort of concept, no matter how logical, that isn’t a part of baseball’s established mystique to some curmudgeonly old baseball fan who only cares about what was good enough for his grandpappy? I imagine someone who actually grew up in baseball is even worse.
Hmmm... That applies to many folks on here as well. How fun.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I honestly don't think it's that bad around here.
I really don’t. Almost everyone is open, if not genuinely interested, in learning new things, even if they run counter to their long-held conceptions.
Delgado had another hip surgery
So, that explains that non-signing.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
It seem's many think Wash is an idiot
Why is he so hated? Is it because he took a joke of a roster and led them into contention? Really do any of you really think you are smarter than him about baseball? He has forgotten more about the game than you will ever know. I’m not sure he is the long term answer here. I am sure that he kicked ass last year and deserves a little bit of credit.
"big-time players make big-time plays in big games."
lolwut?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
did what's his name get back to you?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
Which what's his name?
I am very busy and have lots of contacts who’s name I don’t know, doncha know.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
dang, nevermind.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Just talkin' jive
Seriously, wasn’t sure of whom you spake
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
I had a flashback to 1994 and you didn't bite.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta keep it simple and up to date with me
Dumb it down, and make sure it’s happened in the last three weeks or so.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Remember the awesomeness of "Deez Nuts"?
Dang I’m bored…
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
Tin Cup is on...
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Your momma's on.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think that show was "Yo mama"
AND QUIT TAKING MY BIT! : )
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
waiting for someone to get
that reference might take longer than it took Dre to put out Detox… wait, nevermind. haha
"He's got one of those arms that could throw a marshmallow through a battleship."
- Anonymous Baseball Scout on Neftali Feliz
Just slightly better than pictures of a diseased johnson
But still significantly better than ‘I don’t see why you’d waste cash on PROSPECTS when you could use it so sign Mike Bacsic’.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
That was pretty epic.
Whether it was a sock puppet or not, I felt like it accurately reflected some of the fan base. Specifically, the part that follows and lauds Randy Galloway.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 20, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
Personally, I don't hate him
I just don’t think he’s a real good manager, and I don’t think that he led “a joke of a roster” into contention.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 20, 2010 5:27 PM CST up reply actions
Dang....
I think Washington has been and will continue to be the main reason this team hasn’t and won’t succeed.
The first few posts of every GDT last year was complaints about Wash’s lineup decisions. When your manager can’t figure out a lineup order, it’s hard to believe the rest of his managing decisions are gonna be any good after that.
Wash is an idiot!!
by b.pate on Feb 20, 2010 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The manager...
of any team will never be the main reason why that team doesn’t succeed.
You’re putting way too much stock into the impact of a manager.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Dude
You only get to do 1 bit per comment board.
by Whiskey in my Whiskey on Feb 20, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
Damon to the Tigers, 1 year / $ 8 million
per XM Radio.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
The Influence continues...
This is pretty much the same worry I had from the Ceej thread yesterday. However, as Adam says, thank Lord Cthulhu that it’s not going to be Ron Washington’s decision.
by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 20, 2010 5:39 PM CST reply actions
I have never been a Washington backer....
Other than showing LSB that he doesn’t know what he is talking about, I don’t think many people will even notice. Most casual fans probably think a closer is just as valuable as an ace.
Good thing Washington isnt the GM though….good grief.
by death of the cool on Feb 20, 2010 5:41 PM CST reply actions
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
That’s the most terrifying thing I’ve ever read
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
I am not going to sit here, and say Washington doesn't know about baseball
and is stupid. I don’t agree with some of the things he says, this being one of them. Still he’s been around baseball all his life, and the players trust him. He seems like a good enough guy, and he hasn’t done anything incredibly stupid that has impacted the team for a long period of time.
As of right now I am perfectly fine with him being the manager. There might be something this season that makes me change my mind, but I am fine with him as of now. The players seem to be too.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
I would say that
there are different types and aspects of knowledge “about baseball.” Washington knows well the things that he’s encountered from his playing and coaching days. He knows what a player has to do to be a good fielder (particularly infielder), he knows what he’s learned about hitting, and he knows very well the elements of good teamsmanship. He acknowledged in his introductory PC that pitching is a weakness of his, since he had had virtually zero exposure to that aspect of the game. And where he really suffers is in conceptual aspects of managing, things where general experience in the game and commonly known baseball-isms don’t ready you. His time in Oakland seems to have served him well, because of some of the things that organization has emphasized to its coaches, but, again, in areas where he has to draw his own conclusion to conceptual problems, he is weak.
Whether it is because he lacks the critical thinking ability to draw the correct conclusion to questions like this or that he does not work hard enough at researching and considering things, he consistently exhibits a lack of command of some nuances of baseball that are important for a manager.
by Brett Perryman on Feb 20, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 10 recs
I'm recing this for saying what I wanted to say far better than I could have.
Which is a fancy way of saying “I agree.”
This
And where he really suffers is in conceptual aspects of managing, things where general experience in the game and commonly known baseball-isms don’t ready you. His time in Oakland seems to have served him well, because of some of the things that organization has emphasized to its coaches, but, again, in areas where he has to draw his own conclusion to conceptual problems, he is weak.
Whether it is because he lacks the critical thinking ability to draw the correct conclusion to questions like this or that he does not work hard enough at researching and considering things, he consistently exhibits a lack of command of some nuances of baseball that are important for a manager.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying for a long, long time. Unfortunately, I’ve never articulated it that well.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
I think it's something a few of have, or at least tried to have, said.
But Z’s take is absolutely the best I’ve ever seen it expressed.
For us laymen
Can you but that in English? :)
I don’t mean this is a derogatory way, but he seems to be a slow learner. Stubborn may be a better way of phrasing it.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
Do Wash read and write?
Who gives a shit what Josey says.............................
by Lil' Jonny Donuts on Feb 20, 2010 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Is this too long for a sig line?
"If this video was an ice cream flavor, it'd be pralines and dick." Clark
re: Matthew Wilder-Break My Stride, 4/17/09
OT: I know what the pink backpack is for
but I’d never noticed that Holland and Feliz have different ones. I’m just wondering which of the vets in the bullpen were debating the merits of Disney princesses for Holland or Dora for Feliz vs. the Hannah Montana and Barbie alternatives — says something but I’m not sure what.
Eddie Guardado doesn't like hispanics?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
You should make a fan page for him.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
Did this get overlooked or did I
just Z past it in one of the other threads? Per EG…
RHP Eric Hurley, however, has been given clearance to accelerate his throwing program. Hurley, still coming back from 2008 shoulder surgery, will now be able to throw bullpen sessions every third day. He had been on a once-in-five-days schedule. Hurley hopes to be able to start his season in May.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
wow, that's WAY ahead of schedule, no?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 20, 2010 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
Excellent. The 4-H club may still work its way into the majors. Say 2011?
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
After scanning these comments
I’m surprised no one posted this, from Richard Durrett’s article on the same topic:
“By the middle of spring, we’ll make a decision if he starts or is in the bullpen,” Washington said. "We feel like his future is starting.
Washington may not seem to understand that a starter is more important than a closer, but he does seem to be in agreeance with the feeling Feliz, at least, should be a starter long term.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
by t ball on Feb 21, 2010 6:43 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Feliz and Washington
Ron Washington simply is not the long-term leader of this team, in fact he is probably been in a little long as it is now! Clint Hurdle could very well be the manager in waiting……right now Nolan Ryan is keeping his eye and his hands on what’s happening and it won’t take too much for Washington to screw it up and be gone! Good solid starters are what this team needs….guys that can log around 200+ innings per year, 30-35 starts, eat up innings and keep the team in the game……….we have a lot of options for a closer and if the starters are doing their job then the closer is simply their to mop up if necessary!
x!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
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