Other Rangers uni numbers that should be retired?
by JustinH89 on Feb 4, 2010 4:49 PM CST
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Seeing the uniform fanpost earlier in the day got me thinking...other than Johnny Oates's 26 and Nolan's 34 (and Jackie Robinson's 42) do any other numbers stick out that should be retired by the Rangers? I can't think of any retired players now, but I was thinking MY and Pudge as the two candidates for me, any other ideas?
I was just bored, and anxiously awaiting baseball season, so this crossed my mind
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Neftali Feliz
And Chris Davis circa 2008.
Not mediocre. Right about average
0, of course
And not for Oddibe.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
it's obvious that
Captain’s #72 is long overdue for retirement.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
Only ones I can see...
Pudge’s 7 for sure.
I could see MAYBE 6 for Mr. Ranger himself if more of a lifetime service award than anything he did on the field.
And then, yeah, probably when MY hangs them up, his 10 will join them.
by vfn on Feb 4, 2010 5:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
shut up
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Feb 4, 2010 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that will matter at the end of the day
This town loves them some Pudge. His number will be retired as soon as his legs finally fall off and he retires.
in all honesty
i don’t think we should retire any more numbers in the short-term because we will need to have numbers available 30 years from now when we’ll already have retired numbers for Feliz, Andrus, Holland, Harden, C.J., Hamilton, MY, Kinsler, Smoak, Davis, Francisco, Feldman, Hunter, Lewis, Cruz, Borbon, Perez, Moreland, Scheppers, etc.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
I like the way you think
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Internet greatness http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/11/10/1125340/will-carroll-calls-out-josey-wales
#1
Elvis
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
None...
They all suck. /lonestarJon
by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 4, 2010 6:15 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
well
best rangers of all time and whether i think they should have number retired
- pudge (obviously will)
- michael young (eventually)
- gonzo (should, but might not happen)
- charlie hough ( think it should, but won’t)
should not:
tom grieve (rangers hof yes, # obviously not)
toby harrah (see tom grieve)
jim sundberg (see tom grieve)
kenny rogers (see tom grieve)
ruben sierra (see tom grieve)
rusty greer (see tom grieve)
buddy bell (see tom grieve)
bobby witt
jeff russell
john wetteland
arod
mark teixeira
fergie jenkins
gaylor perry
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Juan Gonzalez
If they don’t retire his number sometime during the next few seasons, they’re idiots. He’s the guy opposing pitchers were scared shitless to pitch to during their pennant runs.
by Black Francis on Feb 4, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
thought i had him in there
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Call me crazy, but I don't think either deserves to have their numbers retired
It’s not like they left some kind of legacy this team should honor
by oc on Feb 4, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
but they were very good
for extended periods of times with the rangers. it’s not like texas has a great hallowed history of great players. they stand out because they were GREAT by texas standards. their legacy is that they are 2 of about 5 players head and shoulders above the rest of the players in team history.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Juan Gonzalez and Rafael Palmeiro are not synonymous with Nolan Ryan and Jackie Robinson
by oc on Feb 6, 2010 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
jackie robinson
doesn’t count as a rangers legacy player.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
That's kind of my point
This team has three retired numbers in it’s trophy case; one who played for the team, one who didn’t and one who managed. Add it all up and it equals one Ranger player. This ‘Texas standard’ you talk about… to me, doesn’t seem so great
Juan was a good, but a great? Was he as good as any of the players the Twins have retired (Killebrew, Puckett, Carew, Tony-O, Hrbek)
Hrbek’s no ‘great’ sure, but the other guys, I think you can say, are in an entirely different class. Nolan’s ‘class’
does that make sense?
by oc on Feb 6, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
with nolan
it’s mostly about his legend. we could probably put arod in there too because he had a couple of WOW seasons. but of course AROD isn’t beloved nor is he texan, nor did he reach milestones as a ranger, so that’s understandable and i’m not advocating it.
i’m not sure completely, but i think juan gone can be compared to killabrew. and definitely to kent hrbeck.
i don’t think having players 4 numbers retired since 1972 is too many. it should not necessarily be a player that is HOF worthy.
it is true that raffy’s numbers as a whole are HOF worthy, and pudge is HOF worthy. juan gone is probably on the wrong side of bordline.
in the history of the team how many position plays played as many games as juan and raffy?
how many lead the team in homers as often as they did?
how many was on the team when they made the playoffs? to have no player retired that made the playoffs (just 3 in 37 seasons) is crazy. pudge will be retired for sure. the only other reasonable players form those squads are raffy, juan, greer, bobby witt, and rick helling. and those last 2 won’t happen for sure.
there were a few seasons when juan was one of the 3 most feared hitters in the league
raffy 137 OPS+ with team
juan 133 and 2 mvps
juan was with organzation from 1986 to 1999 and again in 2002 and 2003. not many players can say they were with the team that long.
after 37 seasons those 2 are 1-2 in HR, RBI, Runs,
both in top 5 in hits
and probably top 5 in OPS and OPS+
and for the longest time Juan Gone and Pudge were synonymous with ranger baseball. raffy too, just not to quite that extent.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
Raffy was only there
for the 99 season… He was in Balt the other two playoff seasons. He did lead the Orioles to the ALCS, twice though.
I don’t think Booby Witt was there for the 98 or 99 playoffs.
i know raffy was there
only for 1 playoff season. and witt was there for 1 playoff season. that season though wasn’t his best as a ranger (though he did have 16 wins). he was there for half the 98 season, not for the playoffs though.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
We shouldn't retire #10 just because Michael Young is a media darling
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
no
but he’ll be the all time rangers hit leader, doubles leader, triples leader, runs leader
he’ll be top 10 in homers
top 3 in rbi
and being a fan favorite and the “face of the franchise” along with putting up all time team numbers absolutely means his number should get retired
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
by gossamer on Feb 4, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Those are kinda superficial stats
He has a career OPS+ of 105 and a career wOBA of .347.
He’s basically an average offensive player who’s had two good seasons and played here long enough to compile a lot of superficial numbers. That shouldn’t be grounds for uniform # retirement.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 4, 2010 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
you are such a beating sometimes
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
the superficial stats
are what most people ( not just fans) know. they are the foundation for the sport.
home runs
average
runs batted in
wins
ERA
strikeouts
they are the touch downs and rushing yards of baseball. i know there are better measures of how good a player is, but those are the pillars of baseball. nobody knows who the all time leader in OPS+ is, or who has the lowest WHIP (or vorp, etc…) but people know that teddy ball game was the last to hit .400, that pete rose is the all time hits leader, they know the numbers “61” and “714”. 5,000 strike outs, 300 wins…
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
But by themselves, they're still kind of crappy ways to evaluate a baseball player.
Just because they’re the stats that “the masses” know about shouldn’t give them precedence over better methods of evaluation, and better methods of evaluation all show Michael Young is a pretty unremarkable ballplayer on the whole. He’s a good compiler maybe, and he’s had a couple outstanding seasons, but he’s pretty average in terms of career production. There’s really no baseball reason to retire his number or stick him in the HOF or anything.
The only argument you can really make for him being honored is he’s a nice guy, and a media darling. He’s a world champion at baseball politics. I suppose you could argue that it’s grounds for giving him a political honor like jersey number retirement, but that’s still a pretty shitty reason in my book.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 4, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
so you're a stats guy
There are other guys who will make similar arguments. My question is, “why”? I mean the Hall of Fame isn’t really all that important to me. Team Hall of Fames definitely aren’t, and retiring a jersey number is about the same thing. I would think you guys who are all stats would care even less about the superficial honors and stuff that’s traditional around baseball.
They can retire Domingo Cedeno’s number for all I care.
by Black Francis on Feb 5, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
I agree...
Ichiro shouldn’t be in there either?
Dude, he has how many 200 hit seasons? How many other players do? #10 is going to be retired. If he stays healthy a few more years, he is going to be the guy that the HOF committee (pro, not Rangers) debate every year, though I don’t think he will eventually make it in.
Hall of Fame and retired number are very different arguments
He’s not a Hall of Famer, but Face is a Rangers icon. He’s the most significant player the Rangers have had this decade, and he’ll be the equivalent of a Rangers MLB lifer most likely. I think they ought to retire his number.
how are you judging number retirement standards
you’re just making it up that it has to be the most productive player. people were retiring numbers before you were born for much different reasons than those
i'm probably wrong
but was pee wee reese a big numbers machine or was his HOF the product of being a good guy? was a hall of the very good type guy?
i don’t know. maybe he was a very good hitting short stop in his time. he seems to get quite a bit more praise than luke appling.
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
I think that...
It is hard to truly appreciate the greatness of one Mikey Baseball’s career due to the taintness of his peers.
Hough & Sundberg
Hough was the ace of the staff for a decade, and held or still holds most of the team’s pitching records. Sundberg was the original FOTF, and remains pretty much synonymous with the club.
"To have the judgment and wisdom and personal touch of Nolan Ryan, and the tremendous group that JD has assembled, I think the Rangers on the baseball side are the envy of every franchise in baseball in terms of talent."
-- Chuck Greenberg
I vote you combine this with Joe Siegler's historical uniform database query
Go for that edge-of-your-seat-excitement 2fer…
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
Hi, Keith. Is this the year Edinson Volquez finally wins RoY?
Ya know who I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned in this discussion yet
Rusty Greer.
If people seriously think MY deserves to have his number retired, Greer should be a shoe-in.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Michael Young...
has played almost twice as many seasons of 100+ games as Rusty Greer did. Your ability to assume everyone that likes a player and hopes he performs well is some emotional goon with limited baseball knowledge is very condescending.
We get it, you don’t take much stock in the player, only the result. People, especially the ones that fill the stadium, root for players to pull through, lead the team, and all that schlock. That’s how the majority follows baseball, like it or not.
Fans, the vast majority of paying customers, want to see their favorite players honored if they they did something to merit it in their eyes. And yes, that includes long service of representing the team in a positive way, even if their wOBA wasn’t up to snuff.
I don’t even think Michael Young merits a retired number yet. I’m not even particularly a Michael Young fan. However, if he has some more productive seasons and retires in say, 2017, with the Rangers as the team’s all time leader in practically all of their non-power based hitting surface stats, why wouldn’t you want to see him honored some day for spending his entire major league career with the Rangers and leaving a positive legacy amongst his peers, community, and fans?
by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 5, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Because he's already been given enough honor, accolades and laurels to rest on for two careers.
Representing the team is what all the humanitarian and “man of the year” awards that MY has shelves full of are for. MY is also already grossly overpaid, overrated and constantly and showered with praise to the point that people actually remember his hissy fit over moving to third base as a good thing.
So the idea of his stupid number being honored next to Nolan Ryan and Jackie Robinsion on the stadium wall when there is absolutely no tangible reason for it just seems dumb and irksome to me.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
This is a pointless debate with you...
you’ve made your opinion known on what you think of baseball players. They’re all terrible unless they aren’t and even then, they will be terrible soon enough. I don’t know why I bothered.
Carry on conducting the hate train, my friend.
by ghostofErikThompson on Feb 5, 2010 12:26 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think all ballplayers are terrible
Theres ballplayers I like. I just don’t let liking a guy define my opinion of him. Salty taught me that.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
x
MY is also already grossly overpaid
According to Fangraphs, he was a 3.9WAR player last year, worth $17.5 million.
by Randy Richardson on Feb 5, 2010 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
Yay, he was worth his salary plus a million and a half!
During a season he’s never going to repeat. Meanwhile, and we’re paying him 16 mil a season until 2013.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
you have a
weird way of admitting that you were wrong.
by Randy Richardson on Feb 5, 2010 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
For one thing, Fangraphs dollar values don't really equate to salary
Or so I’ve been discredited when I’ve tried to use them in the past.
For another, even if you’re going to use them arguing that being worth just slightly more than his salary in 2009 makes up for the fact that he’s still going to be paid 16 million per year for his age 33, 34, 35, and 36 seasons is stupid.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
it can be used
as a tool. He simply hasn’t been “grossly overpaid” in the past according to his salaries and corresponding production. As to whether he’s worth it going forward, that’s certainly up for debate. CHONE has him at 3.2 WAR next year, worth $14.6 million. Also, $15 million of his contract is deferred. I’m not an accountant, but the real value of his contract is less than $16 million per year.
by Randy Richardson on Feb 5, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
15 mil deferred
So take out his age 36 season, I guess. Whatever way you spin it, in all likelihood he’s still not going to have been worth his contract by the end of it. Not based on his career #‘s. Unless of course he’s discovered a new undetectable steroid and is actually a better player in his mid-30’s than he was in his prime.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 5, 2010 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
Older players are possibly the new market inefficiency
The fact of the matter is that michael young has not been overpaid ever in his career, and it’s not even close (BTW his salary last year was 13.1M). He might be overpaid going forward but the magnitude of that is yet to be seen.
As to overrated? Well he gets All Star game appearances but other than that it’s not like he’s on SC every day (which, to me, wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world anyway). His team seems to value him exactly as they should since they forced a position change. It’s not like he’s hitting cleanup or leadoff or blocking a better bat.
You’re just wrong, as usual.
You don't really think
Nolan gave the Rangers more production than MY for their time here, do you?
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
No, but Nolan was a legitimately great player
Though it’s true, if you get technical this franchise has less claim to him than the Astros or the Angels do. He really shouldn’t be wearing a Ranger hat in the hall, but that’s a different discussion.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Yeah, this is a ridiculous statement
Rusty was a nice complemenet to Juando, Pudge, et al… but he wasn’t the leader. He just hustled and was able to hit 300 with a little pop… and keep in mind that I am saying this from a standpoint of Rusty being my all-time favorite Ranger… well except for Elvis.
Greer
While playing second fiddle to Juan and Pudge, was actually a much better player than Michael Young: .378 career wOBA and a 124 wRC+.
Which was pretty much my point. If you’re gonna consider MY, you should be considering Greer, too.
I really don’t think either one deserves to have their jersey retired though.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 5, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
Greer was barely ever healthy, retired early and was utting up those numbers as a corner outfielder.
And you wanna talk about bad contracts? Greer signed a $21MM deal in 2002 and barely played at all after that. That was a much worse deal than MY’s. Young is overpaid but at least he’s on the field and playing at a generally high level.
you probably shouldn't use rate stats
when you are evaluating a player’s career worth. or at least throw in some cumulative stats (which I wanted to abbreviate as cum but…)
Cecilio Guante
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 5, 2010 9:00 AM CST reply actions
You stole my fallback player.
Used to be Sixto Lezcano, but that became to obvious so I went to Guante, Shooty Babbitt, and Otto Velez.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
#29 Roger Moret
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
6
Rob Bell with the Bell Curve
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
My list:
1. Pudge
2. Gonzalez
You gotta consider the bar for retiring baseball numbers. They really do have to be the BEST in franchise history, else you’d run out of numbers. Pudge is arguably the best catcher in baseball history, so he is obvious. Gonzalez was arguably the most feared OFer in baseball during the 90s and key to the Rangers “golden years,” so he’s easy to justify.
Beyond those two, I’m not sure you can make a strong case. Hough, Greer? You gotta be kidding me. MY is an interesting discussion. He is the “face of the franchise” and a consistently good player and community guy, but longevity is what he needs IMO. He doesn’t put up MVP numbers like Pudge and Gonzalez did, but he’s the type of player who could very well join the 3,000 hit club, at which point it’s not even a tough decision to retire his number. So the MY talk is gonna have to wait.
i say
if young puts up another 2 or 3 years of 170 hits and a .300 avg he’ll probably have his number retired. 3000 hits ain’t gonna happen
i agree pudge and igor need numbers retired, but gonzo was maybe the 3rd or 4th most feared OFer of the 90s
" This is the inning that propels us to the playoffs. Mark it down."
- Rohn Warshington on Jul 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT
5th inning against the Tigers
In this order
Juan Dominguez
Brad Fullmer
Kris Benson
I thought it be all warm and shitty, but it just tasted like normal beer. It was still cold.
FUNNY STUFF
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 11, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
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