Tuesday a.m. Rangers stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 8:59 AM CST
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PrintRichard Durrett continues his review of each position on the Rangers with a look at second base and Ian Kinsler. I think my opinion about Kinsler is well known...his OBP struggles last season were disappointing, but he was still one of the best second basemen in baseball last year, and if the Rangers can that sort of performance from him -- offensively and defensively -- year-in and year-out, they'll be in great shape at second. The extent to which Kinsler became the whipping boy for the team's offensive struggles in the second half of the season continues to amaze me.
Over at BBTiA, David Brown takes a look at the bullpens across the A.L. West. The A's project to have the strongest pen in the West by a comfortable margin, and there's a significant gap between the Rangers at #2 and Seattle and Anaheim.
T.R. Sullivan talks about the Rangers' need to perform better against lefthanded pitching this season, particularly with a lot of quality lefties in the division, and focuses on the last bench spot as being key in that regard, as whoever is the 25th man -- Rocco Baldelli apparently being the main outside target for that role -- is someone they want to be able to spell Chris Davis and/or Julio Borbon.
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Revo has a column up about Ryan/Daniels at ESPN Dallas
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/columns/story?columnist=reeves_jim&id=4891508
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Im pretty sure AJM
placed this article in its own thread knowing who would take over the discussion. That was great moderating skills and much appreciated AJM.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
So...what are we waiting on for Baldelli?
His price to slide a little more?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 9, 2010 9:05 AM CST reply actions
I imagine we have made the offer
And I would think its now on him to accept. Maybe hes waiting to see if something better comes along.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Ian Kinsler was a .238/.314/.450 hitter for 550 consecutive plate appearances to end the season.
April was the outlier.
Well
It’s worth pointing out he rebounded bigtime after bottoming out in July with a .311/.400/.656 in August. Then he got obsessed with hitting the 30/30 mark and went downhill again in September.
But it’s not like he was consistently terrible the entire time after April.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 9, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
It wasn't just the numbers...
…it was also how Kinsler carried himself, specifically in his interviews with Bob and Dan. Kins came off as a cocky jack ass who was offended that his approach at the plate was in question. I think the fans would have been more patient with Kins if he had a better attitude (or at least said the ‘right’ things).
Like Tim Tebow
You wiill never see anyone try as hard as me ever again
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Fuck Tebow
Josey Wales born on LSB July 18, 2006 Jumped the shark--That glorious day in 2008. RIP Josey Wales.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
Well mayber if Ian would cry
And promise us he’s gonna try harder next time, he’d be a little more popular.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
so do you disagree
that WHAT players say and HOW they say it affects public perception? I’m having trouble seeing the argument that lies under your sarcasm….
It's not really clear what I'm trying to say.
I just think he gets judged too harshly on his poor body language and sometimes pouty looking face. At least he cares.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
It's like people want him to come out and say "I suck"
When he’s struggling. But he’s a proud guy and I’m sure he works on his flaws.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Kinsler being
garbage on the road last year definitely didn’t help the team. The team needs more out of both Kinsler and Hamilton if they want to compete.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Really?
The Rangers need Kinsler to be better than one of the 5 best second basemen in baseball to compete?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
While I agree Kinsler needs to improve
I think Davis and Hamilton are bigger factors in truly getting this offense where it needs to be. If they mash like we know they can mash, any improvement by Kinsler will be sugar on the top.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
They need him to show up
and play on the road. His .219/.285/.387 road performance was disgraceful.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
And more that balanced out...
…by his 950 OPS at home.
He was 8th among 2B in VORP, 4th in UZR, was one of the 2 or 3 best positional players on the team last year, and yet he’s being lumped in with Josh Hamilton as part of the problem.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
The fact that so many people in here
beat up on Kinsler (“Oh my god. He was cocky on BAD Radio and had the outright gall to ask that more Ranger fans show up for the home games!!”) is a direct reflection of their sophistication.
How many other players hang up a 30/30 and get bitched at to this degree?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I would have taken 20/50
But he didn’t get on base enough to make that happen
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That's a really stupid comment.
I’m on record more than a few times for saying how much I love Kinsler. I understand, as I think almost everyone does in here that he had a very productive 2009 season. Having said that, it’s very strange to me how some people in here can’t understand why some people are down on him. I remember a conversation that I had with my friend back in April, shortly after his cycle game, and more importantly his awesome 2008 season. I told my buddy that I felt like Kinsler was one of the most underappreciated and best players in the game. Right or wrong, that was the level that I put him on, and I believe many shared my feelings. Then came the next several months where he wasn’t anywhere close to that player. One of the most amazing things about Kinsler is his ability to wreak havoc on the bases and it was frustrating to watch him hit so many balls in the air. I also heard many of the Bob and Dan interviews and was surprised with his attitude towards many of their questions. I think fans admire athletes who demonstrate humilty, which is a large part of why Michael Young is so embraced here in Texas. Having said that, b/c I’ve met Kinsler a few times and he’s always been great to me and my family it would take more than a rough stretch and a few bad interviews for me to turn on him. I understand Adam’s point about his year long #‘s being amongst the best of all 2B, but when you have certain expectations for players and you see month long #’s looking like some of Kinsler’s from ‘09, it shouldn’t be hard to see why so many people are down on him. Just thinking out loud….
Could you hit "Return" a couple times the next time you're thinking out loud?
Makes it much easier to read.
weird.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 9, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
The only thing Ian needs to improve upon
is his consistency. He needs to realize when to swing for the fences and when to hit for contact. Hopefully Hurdle will be able to help him in that regard.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
I think the biggest problem people have with Kins
Is really not the production that Kins put out, but more so of how he was used, which wasnt Kinsler’s fault, but we already had plenty to complain about Warsh so we just added this to Kinsler’s rap. Kins had a pretty good year. Could have been better, but a season Id gladly take again (as long as he is not our leadoff hitter).
I also think another aspect that got some pissed at Kinsler was that you can see his potential to be GREAT! Its there. I think his attitude and willingness to admit he struggled and needed to work on something things tarnished him a bit, but because i think fans see what he really could do. And he really could be the best 2B in the game.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Was there a better option to leadoff last year?
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Fair enough point...
Though I would say Elvis Andrus in the 2nd half of the year in hindsight would’ve been better. But obviously Wash wasn’t on board with that.
A consistent one? No way! Kinsler was probably the best option but that doesn't mean it was a good option for a lead off.
I agree with you. I hated Kinsler pre 2008/2009 because I always thought he was a lazy piece of crap who had all the talent in the world but didn’t want to work to really be great. He changed my perception in the second half of 08 and beginning of 09 mainly because of his improvements on defense. He no longer lazily went after fly balls, showed proper fundamentals in the field that I teach to my 13 year old team, and it showed by his defense (eye test) and his stats (UZR and WAR)
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
What made you think Kinsler was lazy pre 08?
He was a 17th round draft pick that pretty clearly had to do some work to make it to the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I think he was referring to all of the errors Ian had in the field.
I don’t want to speak for thad, but I saw a vast attention difference in pre 08 Kins and post. Last year he would look all the balls into his glove, make the accurate throw, and he extended his range.
While Grieve and Josh wanted to say the “new pitching method” was helping to do that i.e. pitchers not taking 5 mins between pitches, I think it was mainly Kinsler understanding that he needed to focus on defense to be the best 2nd baseman in the majors.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Gdawg
AceJC is right on point with what i was talking about. I know Kins has worked hard to get here but it just seemed that when he got here, he acted like it was his right to be here and he let that show on the field defensively. His UZR pre 2009 (and greatly improved second half of 08) was -11.2,-12.4, -7.3 for 06, 07, and 08 respectively. UZR in 09 was +9.6. Thats a huge difference and that didn’t just happen because of the pitchers approach on the mound. (His as well as all of his fielding stats: DPR, RngR, ErrR, UZR/150).
There was a conscious effort to improve in the field and he got rid of a lot of his “Laziness”. You get better year to year as a young pro, but to drastically improve like he did, it took him specifically working at it and putting in the extra time to get that work
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Kinsler was part of the problem
he was extremely inconsistent in 2009. 20% of the time he was Rogers Hornsby. The other 80% he was replacement level. He needs to be consistently good to be ranked as one of the best 2nd basemen in the game.
Consistency is almost always overrated.
Frustrating to watch, but not really that important (in baseball) when it comes to wins and losses. Yes, he’d be even better if he was Hornsby 100% of the time, but he’s still one of the best 2nd basemen in the game.
well
I think the problem is that the Rangers rely on Kinsler to provide more of a contribution than he made last year. I agree with you though – they are already getting quite a bit from him as it is. It is kind of silly to say that he’s at fault, when at least he is better than almost any other option at 2nd base.
Much easier to point fingers at Chris Davis, Josh Hamilton, Andruw Jones/Hank Blalock, and the catchers. Because they all underperformed their positions
Go Rice Owls!
Kinsler...
It’s fine for him to be a top 5 2B in baseball, but that’s often kind of like the tallest midget. He’s capabale of being a top 15 player in baseball regardless of position.
Kinsler
I don’t think this is the sole reason, but his whole “I don’t need to change anything about my approach” attitude while mired in that slump didn’t win him any fans.
"Jesus, Spanish- first our jobs, now our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
That was what annoyed me.
What really made him the whipping boy was him lashing out at the fans though. Kinsler is the anti-Michael Young in the sense that he’s really good, he’s just shitty at dealing with the media/fans.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Feb 9, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
I think a hitter's approach should be between the hitter and his coach
what he says to the fans has little to do with it.
And the coach is gone now (yay).
Go Rice Owls!
I hope that's the case.
Kins: So what should I work on, coach?
Clint: Ok, you know how you were swinging last year? Uppercutting everything? Yeah, that. Don’t fucking do that anymore.
Kins: Gotcha.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
Anyone remember Major League?
Lou Brown: Well, you can run like Hays, but you hit like shit. With your speed, you should be hitting the ball on the ground and be legging them out. Everytime I see you hit one in the air, you owe me 20 push-ups.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
I think the problem with Kinsler is that we had a whole bunch of amateur swing analysis here
Someone said he was uppercutting too much, that characterization stuck and people ignored the numbers he was putting up.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I don't think people are ignoring the numbers
crappy OBP out of a leadoff man and a guy who can only hit in RBiA makes for a guy who will draw some fire, especially from a guy who you expect to help carry your offense.
High expectations combined with a fairly crappy approach, combined with making a lot of outs at the leadoff position, and only being able to hit in a ballpark with RBiAs reputation explain a lot of the heat.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Like I said below, he had a .345 OBP leading off the first inning which is just fine
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Last time I checked baseball games were more than 1 inning
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Last time I checked baseball games were PLAYED ON THE FIELD!!!
Top that anti-logic…oh wait, you already did…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Stop being dense about this
You’re saying that Kinsler was a crappy leadoff hitter. The one time he’s guaranteed to leadoff a game (like all leadoff hitters) he did very well. The problem wasn’t him being the leadoff hitter the problem (if you want to characterize it as a “problem”) was his other PAs.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
As a leadoff hitter everytime up to the plate you have the 2,3,4 guys hitting directly behind you
Whether its the first inning or the 7th inning.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I assumed he was talking about his overall line.
If we’re just talking about his production at clean-up…I’m invoking SSS all over that shit.
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 10:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Invoke "SSS" all you want.
It doesn’t change the numbers Byrd actually posted last season.
Nobody’s arguing there’s any predictive validity to them.
Not really.
I skimmed over all the posts above Drew’s so I missed the discussion about production from the middle of the order.
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 10:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
220 PAs is SSS?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Absolutely.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Over the course of a season
Its about 1/3 of a players normal ABs. To me thats not SSS
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Sorry to be that guy
SSS?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Basically, when you're doing stats analysis,
you need to worry about the underlying reality you’re “sampling” from.
If your sample is small, you could be drawing improper conclusions from too little data. (Say, Elvis Andrus hits a home run in his only PA in the 4 slot, and someone starts arguing that his career 5.000 OPS at cleanup suggests he should always bat fourth.)
Similarly, if you’re trying to conduct statistical tests, having too small a sample limits your power to detect significant differences.
Or
From today’s Sullivan article, mentioning Rocco Baldelli as being 3 for 9 lifetime against Cliff Lee.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
x
The Rangers would like both to emerge as everyday players but also would like options for both against a tough left-hander like Lee or Kazmir. Baldelli is 3-for-9 in his career against Lee.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
hmm
I thought he used to be pretty good, but I may have been part of the unwashed masses then…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I think
your impression is the general impression of Sullivan’s work….
The quality really seemed to nosedive once he started working for the team….
TR Sullivan was never good
and now he’s lazy.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Keifer
Who gives a shit what Josey says.............................
by Lil' Jonny Donuts on Feb 9, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
I cant believe im doing this...but
Im gonna defend TR just a little
if he is merely stating that as fact/statistical reporting and not a predictive, meaningful stat there is nothing ultimately wrong with it. The key is in the intention of the stat. As long as he is just putting the data out there he is merely doing his job
Fuck Mike Estabrook
Some writers are required
to write good articles while other writers, like TR Sullivan, are asked to pick up dog shit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Surely you're not surprised that TR would use 9 ABs to prove a point.
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 11:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I just didn't understand the abbreviation lingo
But that is something i never understood.
(made up example) Why is it important to track that Feldman is only 1-2 with a 5.25 ERA when pitching April night games in Oakland?
The more specific a stat, doesn’t that sample size become too small to be usable?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Whoops! Hit "Return" too soon.
Yes, if the specificity limits the sample size. But it’s possible to draw a large sample from a specific set of events or situations, if there are enough members of that set.
so, in using the made-up example above
If we were to look at all Ranger SP who pitched in April Oakland night games, that set would have enough members to make it more reliable?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
I'd be skeptical.
Depends on what your question would be, I suppose.
For any given season, you still wouldn’t have much data, right? And if we’re talking over the course of entire careers, I’d want to ask what you’re trying to do with the analysis ~ what the motivating idea would be..
Thanks!
I’m really not much of a stathead, but I feel like I’m missing out on a big aspect of evaluation, so I’m trying to build my understanding from the ground up.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Oh, I have it bookmarked
I’m slowly making my way through it. It’s tough reading, some of it.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Yeah, both the subject matter
and the actual writing can be a drag. As you get deeper into it, the terrain becomes more familiar, and the sledding’s much easier.
It probably also helps to have a stats background, but there are a good number of resources out there that don’t depend on it…
Bet Rocco gets a start out of that 3 for 9
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Thats a really SSS
"Josey drives to games???
I always assumed he rides in on his high horse"
jam0152
Martin Perez, "Mucho queso"
Maybe if Kins had been on base more things would have been different
You can go round and round about what caused what.
I just think as the 1 hole hitter your focus should be on getting on base and setting up those heart of the order guys. The ability Kinsler has he can naturally hit 20 HRs a year without trying. But last year it was pretty evident by watching the games and watching his swings that he was winging for the fences all the time. Which led to a huge increase in his FB% and his IFFB% and a big drop in his LD%
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Oh, please.
While we’re at it, let’s blame Kinsler for the paper bags Hamilton, Davis, and Saltalamacchia left on the Rangers’ front porch last season.
Look
Overall yes Kinsler had a successful season last year. But to argue that he couldn’t have improved and we should be happy having a overall top 5 2B in baseball without recognizing some shortfalls of his game is wrong. Whether it was his fault for his approach at the plate or Washingtons fault for hitting him leadoff is debatable but I don’t want Kinslers slash line from our leadoff hitter in 2010. Ill take it from the 5 hole but not from the 1 hole
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Would I like Ian to have had a betterr OBP?
Sure. But to say I’ll take a 107 OPS+ from the 5 hole but not the leadoff spot is silly in my view. And as was mentioned, who else could have hit leadoff?
I would have preferred 2008 Kinsler to 2009 but 2009 was still pretty good. Also, I think snark already pointed out how Kinsler walk rate rose last year. However, I’ll grant you that Kinsler’s LD% and FB% are troublesome.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Its about the approach or perceived approach
Andruw Jones had low LD% and high FB% and walked a great deal to go along with a low BA. Would you have wanted him in the leadoff spot? I wouldn’t have. But in the 5 hole I had no problem with Jones. Watching Kinlser last year at the plate knowing Young was waiting on deck was painful. Had Davis been on deck (because Kinsler was hitting lower in the order obviously) it wouldn’t have been so bad.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Also as far as perceptions go
I expected Kinsler to be a team leader, and maybe even stick his name in the league MVP race by end of year.
I expected Jones to look like a cheap NRI.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Maybe at the time.
But the numbers back up what many were thinking: Kinsler changed his approach to try to hit more home runs. That could also help explain the Home/Road splits. Anyways, here are his percentages for flyballs, linedrives and his ratio of groundballs to flyballs. 2006-2008 were pretty consistent (averages shown), while 2009 looks like either a huge outlier or something changed.
06-08: 44.4% FB, 21.5% LD, and a 0.77 GB/FB ratio
2009: 54.0% FB, 15.9% LD, and a 0.56 GB/FB ratio
From Kinsler’s fangraphs page.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
You could also make the argument...
…that Kinsler’s drop in BABIP, from .339 in 2008 and a career average around .293 to .245 in 2009, was due more to the decreased line drives and increased flyballs instead of pure bad luck. If that is the case, then you can’t simply regress Ian’s numbers to his 2008 or career averages. A return to those numbers would require a change (back) in approach.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think you "could" make that argument
The facts are there. His BABIP was clearly affected by his LD% and FB%. The question is whether the changes in LD% and FB% were just shitty luck and he’ll bounce back or whether he needs to make some type of change.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Indeed.
I’m not sure Kinsler has echoed them, but I like what I’m hearing from Davis and Hamilton.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
The Bullpen projection is encouraging
but not surprising. What’s more encouraging is David had rated the starting rotations on Saturday, coming up with this bottom line on Runs Above Replacement:
Angels-146
Rangers-160
A’s-138
Mariners- 164
If we add the RAR of the bullpen numbers, we get totals for the entire staff projection:
Angels- 173
Rangers- 205
A’s- 196
Mariners- 209
One commenter on BBTIA deftly pointed out that we’ll probably see Neftali Feliz’s numbers really increase the Pen’s RAR, so there’s obviously going to be variation due to roster and injury moves. Exciting stuff, though.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
The Mariner's bottom line number should be 196, not 209
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
What exactly makes the As bullpen so much better than the Rangers?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
CJ and Feliz aren't exactly tossing softballs up there
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
These numbers don't include Neftali
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
in the bullpen, anyway
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
As for Kinsler
If he was our 5 hole hitter last year and put up that exact same line i don’t think people would have been as annoyed with it. But when you are primarily the leadoff hitter hitting in front of Young and Hamilton your main focus shouldn’t be on hitting home runs which is was pretty apparent was what Kinsler was doing last year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think
that was a big part of it. Especially with the teams hitting woes, his refusal to improve his OBP at the top of the order was just maddening.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
After his dreadful July,
Kinsler dramatically improved in BB% and K%, and his LD% rebounded to its highest levels of the season.
That doesn’t read like a refusal to improve his OBP.
What?
Yes he was the leadoff hitter for a good chunk of he season but so what? He’s only going to be guaranteed to lead off an inning once game and in those PAs (leading off the 1st inning) he had a .345 OBP and .577 SLG. I’ll take that from my leadoff hitter.
Oh, and homeruns are a good thing.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
He may only be the "leadoff hitter" in the first inning but everytime up hes hitting directly in front of Young and then the heart of the order
Home runs are fine but when you are batting sub .250 its time to focus on getting on base when you are in that spot in the lineup
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
How can you blame Kinsler for his spot in the lineup?
He doesn’t make the lineup. Plus lineups don’t matter all that much, but we’re obsessive baseball fans who like constructing perfect lineups in our heads.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
The leadoff hitter should have a different mindset than a 5 hole hitter
The leadoff hitter hits in front of good hitters everytime up. The 5 hole guy hits in front of the bottom of the order. So I can accept a 5 hole guy swinging for the fences more often than not. but a leadoff man needs to be focused on getting on base.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You keep repeating that Kinsler was hitting in front of good hitters every time up.
In 2009, he really wasn’t.
Young had a pretty damn good 2009 did he not?
Byrd had a pretty good 2009 did he not?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Young had a great 2009.
Byrd’s .345 wOBA didn’t exactly wow me.
Don’t get me wrong ~ I didn’t expect any more than that. But let’s not pretend that Kinsler had a terrifying heart of the order backing him last year.
To wit ~ collectively, for the season:
Batting 3rd: .254/.310.441
Batting 4th: .249/.335/.515
Batting 5th: .267/.309/.473
Are these Byrds numbers?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I should give Byrd more credit in the cleanup spot, though.
He was great: .306/.373/.560
But he only had 220 PAs there, and the rest of the guys in the slot were much less impressive.
I understand the leadoff hitter should try to get on base
But Kinsler is Kinsler. How can you expect him to be two different hitters?
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Look at his 2008 and 2009 and tell me thats not two different hitters
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Not in terms of approach
Batting average, yes
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
in 2008 Kinsler walked 45 times in 583 PAs
7.7%
In 2009 Kinsler walked 59 times in 640 PAs
9.2%.
Looks to me he was trying to be a leadoff hitter and get on base in 2009 and maybe his batting average suffered as a result.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
His LD% dropped from 24% in 2008 to 16% in 2009
And his FB% rose from 43% to 54%
He was trying to jack home runs more than he should have been
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Or he was working deeper into counts and was unable to lay off of high fastballs
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
His pitches per PA only increased by 0.06 or so.
If he was working deeper into counts it wasn’t to a noticeable degree.
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 10:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hmm.
Good catch
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
No.
Hitters should hit to the best of their ability for production and the manager should put them in an order that maximizes that.
I don’t know that Kinsler did hit to the best of his production, but that’s beside the point. He doesn’t decrease his production because the manager puts him in a silly spot (which honestly doesn’t make much of a difference for team production), and if he can increase it, he should be doing that anyway.
I disagree
Lineup positioning should matter to how a hitter approaches things.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No
Hitting is a reactionary event. Guys don’t say “I’m in the four hole, better hit a HR”. The only time they might alter their approach is the pitcher they’re facing (cheating against a fireballer waiting on a knuckle) and the count (shortening up with two strikes).
Hitters are who they are. Vlad isn’t going to become some patient walk machine when he’s high in the lineup and Elvis isn’t going to start cranking them out just because he’s hitting #5.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I'm not sure I agree with this.
I think some guys have a tendency to swing at the first pitch frequently, and I think that some spots in the lineup allow you to be more aggresive than others. I think that you need to have a more patient approach in the # 1 hole than in some others.
Then you put someone with a patient approach in the leadoff spot
You tailor your lineup to the team you have not vice versa. The players don’t tailor themselves to their lineup position.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
by WyoRanger on Feb 9, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Its not about patience
Its about an ability to get on base. Prior to last year Kinsler was the most logical choice based mostly on his natural line drive swing which lends itself to lots of base hits along with a respectable walk rate.
Last year his walk rate was consistent with his career even improving on his steller 2008 campaign but his line drive swing went away for a more pronounced uppercut. It was painfully obvious watching on tv thats what was happening.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I understand all that
But for whatever reason last year Kinsler stopped hitting line drives and hit way more popups and fly balls. That to me says he altered his approach to get more lift on the ball to presumably hit more home runs. In his first three seasons he had been about a 20% line drive guy who ended up with 15-20 home runs each season (probably would have been 20-25 had he not been injured each of his first two seasons). Those line drives along with his walk rates helped him maintain a >.350 OBP which is what a leadoff hitter (or top of the order hitter) should focus on.
Last year, whether it be for personal reasons or whatever, he seemed to focus far too much on his home run total and I believe he altered his approach at the plate to try and get more home runs. Thats fine to do if you are hitting lower in the order with less capable hitters hitting behind you. But at the top with what should be your best hitters directly following you let the natural home runs come and focus on getting on base and using the great speed and baserunning abilities he has to improve the team
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't know if he altered his approach
I remember someone mentioning that he’s always had an uppercut swing throughout his career including the minors.
Now, if he did make some type of change in his swing he needs to change it back because he wasn’t as good as 2008. That’s clear. What isn’t clear is if there was some type of change. I’ll leave that to Ian and Hurdle.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
If anything
Doesn’t an uppercut swing result in more topspin being put on the ball? In 2008 it sure seemed like Ian would hit some wicked liners down the 3rd base line.
Conversely I read a story somewhere about Ricky Henderson adopting a slight downward chop to his swing in an effort to generate more backspin, and thus, more loft and carry to his hits.I couldn’t find the story, but I found this excerpt from and article about Jeff Bagwell and ole Rudy Jaramillo.
When Bagwell came to the Astros, he hit the ball with topspin. Jaramillo taught Bagwell to hit with backspin, which caused balls to soar instead of nose dive. He also taught Bagwell how to work the count, how to wait for a pitch to drive instead of whaling away at any old strike.
I think the popups are more due to pitch recognition and not being able to lay off the high heat.
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
true, that affect of the swing is correct concerning the uppercut
the biggest problem comes from the much lower margin for error with the timing of the swing. with the upper cut swing, you’re much more likely to be just late enough pop up poorly. If you can bring your swingline a little farther back with the uppercut, then you can create a great deal of topspin.
Correct on swing planes
a good number of hitting coaches will talk about hitting the top half of the baseball to create the proper spin for line drives and hard hit homeruns. While it is possible to hit home runs with an uppercut, they are more of your high arching moon shots.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Feb 9, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
What's in a moon shot?
Vodka, triple sec, and grapefruit, right?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Wrong conversation
the mindless alcohol talk is located elsewhere
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Feb 9, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think it's an attempt
to get a 2nd conversation brewing.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Feb 9, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
just ignore me and i'll go away
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
You're in a shitty mood
Maybe you should relax. Perhaps unwind with a drink.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
The offense is going to score the most runs if players hit to the best of their ability, regardless of the position.
If someone’s top production is a, like, .370 wOBA, that’s what he should strive for. He shouldn’t decrease it by swinging for more power because he’s hitting 4th, or by trying to make more contact because he’s second, or being overly patient because he’s 1st. That will only decrease run scoring.
Batting order makes little difference, but it can eek out a few runs for an extra win or two if you take the talents and put them in a more efficient order, but you do that based on how the players hit. You don’t ask them to hit based on the position you decide to put them in to. That’s madness.
I don't know what the fuck your problem is with me but you can go fuck yourself
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You guys are all nuts
LSB is to Kinsler as Josey Wales is to Davis…
True or False?
Kinsler and Hamilton...
..are the jersey/shirts that I and my wife own, respectively. We love them.
In a related note, we plan on buying Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, Brett Anderson and Jered Weaver jersey/shirts this year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
To light them on fire and watch them burn?
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
To similarly jinx them...
…as we obviously did to Kinsler and Hamilton last year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Ian Kinsler and C.J. Wilson...
…prompt a certain amount of irrational criticism from a lot of fans. I don’t get it.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Are they the two best looking dudes on the team?
Hmm although my ex loved her some Chris Davis
Shadazz. She's sensitive. Just like jazz. SHADAZZ.
by Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge on Feb 9, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
I'm straight and all
But Elvis is pretty damned beautiful.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Ehh..
While Kinsler had a drop off from his previous year (.393 wOBA to a .358 wOBA), CJ Wilson was a much better pitcher last year than the previous year. He increased his K/9 (from 8 to 10.2), K/BB (1.5 to 2.6), reduced his BB/9 (5.2 to 3.9) for a 2.89 FIP and a 1 WAR season (which is quite good for a reliever). It wasn’t even luck based with a .337 BABIP and a 75.2% LOB%.
Sure we complained when he messed up, but he was very good last year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Feb 9, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
What fans?
Both CJ and Kinsler are well supported on this site. Some of Kinsler’s critics are pretty boisterous but as a whole this site is pretty pro-Kinsler.
Are the fans you’re talking about the DMN commenting type of fans?
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 10:41 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
- whispers -
A lot of Ranger fans aren’t very sophisticated.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
With you being
their unsophisticated leader…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Feb 9, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
What's to get?
If anyone dares to deviate from the Crash Davis school of soundbites they get flogged. I’m pretty suprised people here seem to have forgiven MY.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
a good year will do that for you
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Are you talking about when Kinsler called out the fans?
Because that was fucking retarded on his part. There’s a line between candid interview and dumbass who goes too far and he stepped way the fuck over in that instance.
by LiamP on Feb 9, 2010 11:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree
What’s wrong with saying we’d like to see more fans at the games and when there are more fans we feel we play better? It’s better than the soundbites you get from MY.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
It was really more the way he said it
than what he actually said. He came across like a complete asshole.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Feb 9, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I know people think that but so what?
He wasn’t John Rocker. He said what he thought and the meaning of the message isn’t offensive. Personally, I want to hear what guys think instead of what they think I want to hear.
Would rather have a guy that hits like Bonds in his prime but says he hates puppies and rainbows or a guy that hits like Matt Kata but doesn’t say anything?
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Obviously
But all things being equal, you’ll take the guy who is likable. Give me Albert Pujols over A-Rod all day if their #’s and position is identical.
He came a across as a player who thought fans are idiots and should shut up
as a fan, I’m supposed to like that?
I don’t know about the Bonds/Kata thing — but I do know I’d rather my players not come across as jackasses and call out the fans.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Who wouldn't want that but people are people
There are successful assholes in all walks of life just like there are unsuccessful nice people. Personally, I’ll take winning over the risk of being offended by someone I’ve never met and never will meet.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
OK, I don't think we're disagreeing here
I’m not offended by it — he just rubbed me the wrong way — most assholes do. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to win and I don’t want him on my team.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
We're not really disagreeing
I’d prefer my team to be all cool dudes. When talking baseball with friends who like other teams I don’t want to have to say “yeah, I know the guy’s a dick.”
It’s a double standard but if some replacement-level player is cocking off I’d want him off the team under some guise of “team chemistry”. If he’s good and they’re winning I just shrug my shoulders.
Ian is good, what he said wasn’t all that offensive but people keep on him for some reason. We should probably cut him some slack since he’s earned it.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
If someone is an asshole -- I tend to not cut them slack, period.
because there’s really no point in being one. Especially in a public setting like that.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
Yeah but,
Ian ain’t half the player of Bonds.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Not the point
What do you want? On field success or off field politeness? I’m not saying I’d be great with some wife abuser but if someone sometimes says the wrong thing or in the wrong way I don’t give a crap as long as they perform.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
On field success
I just don’t think his play matched his mouth.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
I disagree but I can't disprove your opinion.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I like Ian.
I wish I never listened to his weekly show last year. But it was the proverbial car wreck, I had to check it out. He was off-putting, and then you’d tune in that night, and watch the massive swing with the pop-up. Then the disgusted bat flip, and perception is reality.
I understand dismissing fan critiques, I just hope he’s not that hard headed w/ Hurdle. Because he can really be fantastic. And I still think he’s a good guy, just handled it poorly last year.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Matched his mouth how?
As far as I know, the bitch about him is that he said once on the radio that he and his teammates were disappointed more fans weren’t coming out to the ballpark in the middle of a pennant race, and another time said he didn’t think that there was anything wrong with his approach.
I just don’t see why people seem so bent out of shape about that.
by Adam J. Morris on Feb 9, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Not really bent out of shape, still like the guy.
It was the overall tone, just was annoying. Made those popups stand out more. Not worried about him at all going forward.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Yeah, I'll actually agree with all of this.
Kinsler soured me quite a bit last year with his inconsistency and his antics off the field. I don’t hate him and I still loved his overall season being All-Star caliber and everything, but he put a dent in his favorite player status for me.
I just make sure to separate my irrational feelings towards him from my evaluation of his real performance as a baseball player.
This is always difficult:
Separate irrational feelings from evaluation of real performance.
Of course, the real trick is figuring out which feelings are irrational, eh?
I don't find separating logic and emotion to be that difficult, though.
Not completely possible, but not difficult.
Kinsler
His show on BaD Radio was a complete disaster for him. Besides the incident you pointed out, he constantly came across as touchy, insecure, and arrogant.
by Randy Richardson on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
And he likes going to the
Sizzzzzzzzzler!!!
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Feb 9, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
so none of us screw up?
we’re always perfect? do you know just how horrible I’m sure I’d come across on a radio talk show???
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Feb 10, 2010 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Imagine that...
the players getting pissed off that fewer than 17,000 fans show up for a game in late June v the Angels.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
by Josey Wales on Feb 9, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Holy crap
I agree.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Perhaps the players could actually do something
on the field other than forgetting how to swing the bats in June to get fans in the park.
When you are one of the worst franchises in baseball, you need to earn attendance with your play on the field. Its real easy for the fans to say its the same ol’ Rangers unless the team shows them something different.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
That's true too
Yet, there’s nothing wrong with a player wanting some support from the fans.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was saying. I don't see why anyone would disagree.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
so annoying when you reference that specific game
Go look at the average attendance for Monday home games (Excluding Opening Day).
Overall, I see your point — but that doesn’t excuse being a douche about it.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
if we aren't into excusing people for acting like a douche
from time to time, then I guess we aren’t into being fans of any of these guys
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Feb 10, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
No, but close.
Taking Bonds at his best- 1.442 OPS v. Kinsler’s .814 last year.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Yeah, I was kidding.
That said, I went to FanGraphs to see if I had a point, and I didn’t. Kinsler’s best year by WAR (2009) was 4.6. Bond’s best on their record was 13.3 in 2002. Which, btw, is retarded, steroids or not.
Maybe Baseball Projection will vindicate me.
Nope.
But it’s closer!
BUT! Smith’s WAR has Bonds at 8.2 WAR/600 PA and 4.3 for Kinsler, so. . . maybe?
Barry's ridiculous.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Yes.
Again, even with the probable use of steroids, putting up the performances of three individual All-Star caliber players is mind-boggling.
And he was probably one of the 15-20 best players ever before he apparently started using in ’99, anyway. That peak in the early 90s was pretty absurd, as well.
I always wind up asking myself
how much of a difference the steroids made for Bonds.
(I’ve never looked it up to see if anyone’s played around with some numbers, though…)
I'm an unabashed fan of the guy,
so my opinion is biased. I think everything was equal in that day, so the numbers may have been lower. But the dominance over the rest of the league would of remained.
Posnaski had a piece last month that showed how much he dominated pre-’99, despite the misperception that Griffey was the best.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
I don't know.
I think steroids were so widely used, though, that I’ll bet his league-relative numbers probably wouldn’t change that much. Using baseball projection’s WAR, for example, his early 90s numbers weren’t much worse than his ’00s numbers. In fact, they were as good or better than 2003.
If he did use steroids, they probably just made him the best player in baseball longer than he would have been naturally.
I agree with you
about the irratonal criticism, I’m guilty of it at times with Kinsler. But, clearly, they’re the two biggest douchers on the team, if they played for the Angels or Mariners we’d be making fun of these guys nonstop.
by Randy Richardson on Feb 9, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think most people here irrationally criticise Kins.
I think we all see where he can improve and the simple things he can do to get there. But i dont think you can ask anyone here if they wish we didnt have Kins and get too many “yes” votes to that.
CJ on the other hand, i am right there with you. The dude goes out there and does just what he should and plus some. he isnt perfect and he isnt Mariano Rivera but he is damn good and we should be glad we have him
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
False
LSB is to Kinsler as the proud father is in watching his honor student bring home a report card full of B’s when the kid is so capable of A’s, but just refuses to put in the necessary effort to get A’s. A little frustrated in a maddening kind of way, but still filled with love.
by Topgun22 on Feb 9, 2010 10:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's pretty good.
Except it looks like some of these fathers would be beating their kid for those B’s in certain cases….
I think we can also add that he has a few brothers...
Who are bringing home F’s and are receiving less punishment than Ian. That is more my thinking. I was one to jump on Ian for his approach at the plate as a leadoff guy and I realize I should have been more concerned about the abortions we had at catcher and 1B.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I agree with this as well.
And those guys take their abuse as well, but you still have moments where you are disappointed in the “good kid”.
Metaphors and similes are fun!!!!
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
If Kinsler would just make an appearance at Newberg Night!!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
You're trying too hard Wails..
..let the game come to you.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Feb 9, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He usually doesn't post this late
he’s struggling for material
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Feb 9, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
If Josey had ever shown up to a Newberg Night, he’d know that there’s never been a player in attendance, seeing as the Q&A is always done about 90 minutes before first pitch.
Or are you including book signing parties and FanFest in “Newberg Night,” Josey?
"Jesus, Spanish- first our jobs, now our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
he was at the book release
"Josey drives to games???
I always assumed he rides in on his high horse"
jam0152
Martin Perez, "Mucho queso"
Happy B-Day to Vlad!!!
However old he is…. lol
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Alright!!!! The big 5-0!!!!
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Over/under set at 39...
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Wikipedia claims he turns 35 today. So you can probably add 4 or 5 years...
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Here is the list of the Rangers NRI's for ST
Texas Rangers
Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
55 Willie Eyre R/R 6-2 205 07/21/78
44 Geoff Geary R/R 6-0 180 08/26/76
47 Kasey Kiker L/L 5-10 170 11/19/87
59 Clay Rapada R/L 6-5 200 03/09/81
22 Tanner Scheppers R/R 6-4 170 01/17/87
Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
72 Emerson Frostad L/R 6-1 210 01/13/83
11 Toby Hall R/R 6-3 240 10/21/75
61 Kevin Richardson R/R 6-3 230 09/12/80
Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
71 Matthew Brown R/R 6-0 200 08/08/82
6 Esteban German R/R 5-9 195 01/26/78
15 Ray Olmedo S/R 5-11 175 05/31/81
12 Justin Smoak S/L 6-4 220 12/05/86
Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
18 Mitch Moreland L/L 6-2 230 09/06/85
74 Chad Tracy R/R 6-3 205 07/04/85
And here is a link for the rest of baseball
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
That would be Rainier Olmedo
Used to be in the Red’s Organization if I’m not mistaken. I used to always draft him in my fantasy draft on my PS 2 game and stick him in the minors and he’d rake. Don’t think he ever lived up to his hype though b/c that was a good 5-6 years ago it seems.
Last team was Toronto
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I thought I had read something about Martin Perez getting an invite
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
never too early for this
"Josey drives to games???
I always assumed he rides in on his high horse"
jam0152
Martin Perez, "Mucho queso"
Anybody else notice
that for a presumably fit guy, Ian has a terrible case of the fat face/double chin combo?
"...like some Russian priest fresh off a bottle of potato vodka and a box of cigars." -t ball
uhhhh
it’s called a “Super Hero Chin”
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Feb 10, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
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