I Think Big Ben Is In Trouble
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 10, 2010 9:48 PM CST
85 comments
This is off topic, but I have the feeling this could turn into a really, really big story soon...
Just saw this link coolaid provided regarding Ben Roethlisberger's version of the events that led to the sexual assault allegation earlier this week, and it includes this bizarre tidbit:
As the investigation regarding the sexual assault allegations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger continues, KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reports that Roethlisberger has conceded having "sexual contact" with the woman who claims sexual assault, but that there was no intercourse.
The admission apparently came during an interview of Roethlisberger conducted at the scene.
Per the report, Roethlisberger claims that the woman fell and injured her head after the incident. She then went to a hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.
Okay.
Ben's story is, apparently, they were making out, and then after making out, she fell and hit her head, hurt herself so bad she had to go to the hospital, and then when she was at the hospital, she made up a story saying that she had been sexually assaulted.
Does that really pass the smell test?
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I have no idea
But Big Ben’s name kinda gives me an urge to go over to Carls Jr and pick up a burger for some reason.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Well, his name did
I didn’t know what he looked like though.
I think you’ve cured me.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by lonestarJon on Mar 10, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
???????
how do you not know what he looks like? this guy has played in two super bowls. BTW, did you know that Jerome Bettis is from Detroit?
Or...
What I like to call: “Harry from Harry and the Hendersons.”
by ghostofErikThompson on Mar 10, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Never been to Carl's Jr
But I hear we’re getting one on Lemmon Ave. in Dallas.
Now I won’t be able to go there because I’ll be thinking of Ben.
by Evil Monkey on Mar 11, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry
Heh.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by lonestarJon on Mar 11, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
When there's smoke there's fire.
"Hey... Goldberg! I bet if that puck was a cheeseburger, you'd stop it!
Just out of curiosity...
…what has you convinced of that fact?
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 10, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
Man
I thought this story would get more play on here.
by GregoryM on Mar 11, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
Adam likes to ignore the dirt on his boy Lenny
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
From everything I heard, read, etc.
It doesn’t sound like there was any evidence that he killed anyone.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 10, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't he take a plea deal so he wouldn't have to go to trial?
and is this similar to the Kobe incident?
Good lawyer?
Coincidently, Big Ben hired the same lawyer Ray Lewis did for his murder trial.
by Too Legit To quit on Mar 10, 2010 10:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Crazy like a fox
who raped a chicken
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Being a Police Officer myself
I have been on alot of sexual assault scenes and taken many a statement….there are a ton of factors to consider, and while not knowing the facts one way or the other per this case my personal experience ( I have two hospitals in my beat and get alot of them) is that 50% of all the calls I have taken end up being B.S. I am very interested to see where this goes…..
respice adspice prospice
Geez. I guess if you want to get laid as a pro athelete now a days
you have to videotape it. Either that or have someone in the room watching to make sure she’s kosher with it.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
In that case..
Here’s to Allison Stokke knocking boots a lot!
Chuck Berry
He used to take a polaroid of the woman, nekked and with her arm around him, before they got down.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Mar 11, 2010 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Well
He also used to take some pictures of the woman in the bathroom doing her business without her permission.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 11, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
That's how Erik Williams beat a rape case
Hidden camera.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Mar 11, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Hopefully some gold comes out of this
Like when we found out what Kobe’s “thing” is.
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
by sprite on Mar 10, 2010 10:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Wow, that is gold.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Big Ben...
looks like the type that would be like, “Man, I already told my bros that I totally gave her the shocker while her equally hot friends made out in front of us because they were so turned on. I can’t pussy out now and admit the truth to the cops that she only held me while I cried in a bathroom stall and then she slipped on where I had peed a little bit on the floor because my pee stream kind of forked out at first because a little bit of residue was in the opening.”
by ghostofErikThompson on Mar 10, 2010 10:23 PM CST reply actions
I hate when that pee thing happens.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
hahaha
the “fork” effect
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2010 3:21 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure making out = "sexual contact"
I’d bet there was more to it than that. Weren’t they locked in a bathroom or something?
VIP room with a curtain, I believe was the original report.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
what the HELL do you expect in the VIP room?
if you’re a VIP, you get whatever “treatment” that VIP Treatment gets.
If you’re not a VIP, you GIVE the treatment. Jeez.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2010 3:22 AM CST up reply actions
there has to be a better idiom to use than "smell" test
I don’t really want to know what it smells like
I completely agree with this.
I hate hearing “smell test.”
by brettgardner on Mar 10, 2010 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Smear Test?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2010 3:22 AM CST up reply actions
So, is there a difference between saying
she was injured after “sexual contact”
and
she was injured during consensual rough “sexual contact”.
The injury is important in that it is evidence of activity forcing her against her will, correct? She could’ve been injured during consensual activity and that would not have been an offense.
So, why go with a convoluted story about injury after the fact, when it’s not really the injury but whether it was a consensual act that matters.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
because otherwise her fiance would dump her
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2010 3:23 AM CST up reply actions
Some Reputations Never Die...
Found this little nugget in cnnsi’s fantasy baseball preview for Michael Young:
“perhaps we’re underselling his role on the AL’s greatest run-producing machine of 2010 (the Rangers).
Hmmmmmmm……
doesn't sound good
and by NO means am I saying this is an excuse, but does a girl think is happening when she goes in to a closed off “VIP” room with a pro athlete by THERESELF. If its just big ben and his buddy and 2 body guards and they are just filing women in there what do expect to happen when you get back there?
Eh, I don't like that stance.
So because he is a super-star, a girl has to assume that if she goes into a back room alone with him that she is consenting to sex?
She needs to be able to say no and walk away, just as if it was any other average Joe.
You can just flip the scenario around and say: “Well Ben, what did you expect from a girl who you just met, who let you sex her up in the back of a club, and who knows you’re loaded?” Of course she is going to try and claim rape. What else do you expect to happen when you get back there?
I’m not going against you specifically lefty, just commenting in general.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I agree that there is no excuse for having sex with someone without their consent, but I think the position is a little more nuanced than that. The idea is that certain behaviors can be volatile when mixed with the right circumstances.
If you decide to go for a walk on the shoulder of an unlit stretch of road near a bunch of bars at 2 am on a Saturday morning, you run a reasonable chance of running into some danger. If a drunk driver hits you, whose fault would it be? His, of course. But his level of culpability is independent of whether or not your choice was a wise one, and vice versa.
I don’t mean to suggest that a woman should expect to be raped in BBL’s scenario, or really just about any scenario. But it is naive for a girl not to realize that sex is probably number one on the man’s priority list in that situation. Going back there with him is by no means consenting to sex, but it might serve as an implicit signal that she is interested in it. She has every right to go back there and do as much or as little as she wants with him, and make her mind about that at any time. But in reality, unfortunately, that right isn’t always respected.
In this situation we really don’t know the full details of what the different parties were thinking or how they acted. If Ben forced her to do anything against her will I hope he is punished to the full extent of the law (and frankly Im hoping that’s the case, because Ive never liked him). But even if that is the case, it’s still possible that this girl made some poor choices along the way.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Mar 11, 2010 1:55 AM CST up reply actions
I see where you are coming from.
But in your scenario of the drunk driving, I don’t think that totally applies. In your case, the drunk driver doesn’t know the person walking is there. The driver doesn’t know the walker doesn’t want to be hit and hits him anyway. In an alledged rape case like this, Ben knows the girl doesn’t want to have sex, but does it anyway. That’s the difference.
I agree that her going in there is bad judgement, but at no point does she lose her right of saying no or does Ben get the opportunity to say “Sorry, you’ve come this far, you knew what was going to happen, so here it comes.” The reality that her wishes aren’t respected, even though most people know what going back there implies, is a crime.
Plus she is 20 years old and more then likely star struck. She may have just wanted to see a star up close, say she hung out with Ben, and get some free drinks, etc. Yes, she probably had an idea that something sexual could happen, but she is not obligated to be raped.
I am not a Ben hater, or even super compasionate for rape victims. I am well aware that there are bad women out there who have no hesitation to jump on a golden ticket by fabricating stories about rape. But I do not believe that because a girl made bad decision after bad decision and put herself in a terrible situation, someone is able to disregard her right to say no and violate her.
The one point I really agree with you on is that neither one of us know what the other was thinking or the circumstances that were involved. If Ben did do this, he should be taken to the house. If the girl ends up being a gold digger and liar, she too should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
She was 20 years old? In which state was this club?
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
Yes, she was a 20 year old college student. Georgia
There are clubs in TX that allow 18 and up in. They have big X’s on their hands and can’t drink, but they can dance and such.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Giggidy
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Mar 11, 2010 3:25 AM CST up reply actions
It’s not about excusing the behavior of the rapist or lessening his degree of culpability. As everyone in this discussion has agreed, poor judgment by a potential victim does not excuse the person doing the victimizing and shouldn’t exempt them from punishment.
The point I was trying to make is that living in the imperfect “real world” subjects you to a variety of law-governed situations, some of which are more likely to result in harm if mixed with certain behaviors. Forget about the drunk driving analogy, because I think it makes it too easy to conflate mitigation for the perpetrator with culpability for the victim. Think of this: A man who lives in Florida hears that a severe hurricane is coming. When it is about to strike land, he walks out onto the beach and stands there. He ends up getting bombarded with rain and swept by the winds into the ocean where he drowns. There is no guilty third-party actor to blame his misfortune on. It is just he and nature. But clearly he has made a dumb choice.
Now Im not saying that standing in the throes of a hurricane is equivalent to going into a VIP room with ben roethlisburger, but the principle is similar: certain behaviors enhance the likelihood that you will encounter harm. It’s a calculation every individual is entitled to make when choosing her actions, and this girl is no different. But it’s quite possible she looks back and thinks “I made a poor decision to go into that room with him.”
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Mar 11, 2010 4:21 AM CST up reply actions
I think we all agree with the premise that
she put herself more in harm’s way by agreeing to go in there with him.
I’m also sure we all agree that her entering that room, under any circumstances save her saying “I want to have sex with you”, does not recuse him from any course of behavior that tries to coerce or force her into sex. Regardless of what really happened, I’m sure she considers her decision a mistake.
This is the sort of situation you talk to your kids about, and use as a cautionary tale.
totally agree.
im just trying to repudiate the straw man that Ace was trying to construct.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Mar 11, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm.. I didn't see myself building a straw man.
But I will try and work with you here. We both agree with her decision not being ideal. We agree that if he had sexual intercourse with her and she didn’t consent, he sucks and needs to be prosecuted. I even agree that she would look back on this and think she should have done things differently. (Especially if she is telling the truth.)
My only difference is with your metaphor about the drunk driver and even the storm one. With the storm scenario, I don’t think it correlates well because again, the man can’t say “Stop storm, don’t kill me.” and the storm decides “Nope, you got yourself out here, you’re going down” or “Ok, I’ll stop.”
The reason I don’t like this is because the man was committed when he decided to stay. He made that decision, “I’m staying and I’m going to have to live with this variable of a storm because I can’t leave once it is here”. This 20 year old didn’t make such a decision. Yes, she agreed to go in the room, but she can still back out whenever she likes and should be able to have her decision accepted with no consequence.
I think I am seeing the point you are trying to make, but I don’t think it applies with this situation. I agree that the likelihood of trouble happening with the decisions that girl made is very high. But we are dealing with a human (Ben) who has the ability to make a decision of right and wrong. Right being that he accepts her plea of stopping and lets her leave, and wrong being him continuing to progress the situation.
She put herself in a position of high risk and probably should know better. But in both your scenarios, the variable that killed the man did not have the ability to make a decision. Ben did. That’s why I think there is a distinction between the two cases.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
The analogies aren’t perfect, and I probably could have come up with something better, but I was trying to think of something quickly. But they aren’t designed to mirror the situation precisely, only to show a specific instance of a general principle, which can then be applied to ben’s case. My point is that there are situations where a person’s behavior reflects a poor decision, and that the quality of their decision is instantiated at the moment the decision is made, regardless of intervening factors or consequences. So let’s say the girl behaved in the exact same way but no assault had taken place. Her behavior might still be construed as showing bad judgment. The point of divorcing an evaluation of decision-making from the consequences of the decision is that it better accounts for the complex, probabilistic nature of the world. Yes, awful things like rape happen, and the people who do them are bad people. That fact doesnt change when you allow that bad judgment may sometimes subject someone to greater vulnerability from those bad people.
The reason I brought up the straw man is that in several posts it seemed like you went out of your way to refute that her actions constituted consent or excused the rape in some way. We’ve all agreed this isn’t the case, but it seemed like you thought there might be disagreement on this point early on.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Mar 12, 2010 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
I guess I wasn't being very clear. I have a hard time getting my point across online.
More of a talker where I can hear what I’m saying and can have my sarcasm come across better.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Miles has taught me
that I need to see a pic to know if it passes the smell test.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
These professional athletes really do need a criminal procedure tutorial before they enter the league.
Here’s a hint, Ben. Don’t. Talk. To. The. Police.
ben just has bad luck with women
deep down he is a really good guy. very down to earth. classy. humble. kind.
Two off-duty Pennsylvania law enforcement officers were with Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger at the Georgia nightclub where a woman accused him of sexual assault, and the two men didn’t see anything inappropriate, an attorney for one of them said Wednesday.
cops are always to be trusted
insert generic story about cops breaking laws and abusing authority here.
but anyway, like i sad, ben’s a good guy.
Always take your off-duty cop with you
I was in a car with some guys after a Cowboy game a couple years ago we were drinking – one of the guys was an off-duty cop. We got pulled over . . . he took care of it and we went on our way.
by Evil Monkey on Mar 11, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
I wonder what they were
getting payed that night.
by blueballlefty on Mar 11, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
No, I think something definitely happened here.
As soon as I heard they were asking him to provide a DNA sample, that’s when I thought they must have something substantial. She had to go to the hospital because she fell and hit her head after they did whatever they did, and they coincidentally found some kind of bodily fluid on or in her that required Ben to submit a DNA sample? Yeah, right.
Ready for some baseball.
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