Taking a step back and thinking about Chris Davis
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 3, 2010 11:18 AM CST
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PrintUnfortunately, the morning thread appears to have been taken over by Chris Davis talk, yet again...but I did want to mention separately that I think it is worth remembering what Davis's track record is.
Chris Davis turns 24 in two weeks. As a point of reference, everyone's hot sleeper first base/DH prospect, Mitch Moreland, turns 25 in September.
Davis, playing as a 22 and 23 year old in the majors, has a career .258/.304/.488 line.
Mark Teixeira, through his age 23 season, had a career .259/.331/.480 line.
Ryan Howard didn't debut in the majors until late in his age 24 season.
Adrian Gonzalez, through his age 23 season, had a career .229/.272/.401 line.
Derrek Lee, through his age 23 season, had a .227/.305/.384 line.
Just because a corner infielder hasn't set the world on fire in the majors by the time he's 23 doesn't mean he's a bust.
Particularly a guy like Davis, who has a career .306/.366/.585 line in the minors, while generally being very young for the leagues he is in.
So let's show a little patience, particularly since the games haven't even started yet.
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Yeah I don't get it.
If I had to pick a favorite player on the team right now, I’m rolling with Davis.
Adam
Don’t you think JD has staked a lot of his future with this team (or at least the success of this year’s team) on Chris Davis doing well this year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
We disagree. How long do you give Davis to show last year was an aberration?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
What if his April in 2010
is in lockstep with his April of 2009?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
12-11
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
How are
Kinsler, Hamilton, Vlad, Young, and the pitching staff doing to get us to 12-11?
I know your bit, and Davis sucked last year no doubt, but for us to be a .500 team in April — which really doesn’t have to be a bad thing necessarily — it will take more than just Davis revisiting his 2009 performance.
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
And don't the lack of walks that Davis
received (including when he came back) concern you?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Sure
He’s not ever going to be a high-walk guy. If he could come close to what he did in 2008, that would be fine.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 3, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
The biggest problem for him last year
was not making contact with anything. That was the most important thing he could have worked on last season. If he’s got that back under control, and that doesn’t mean being at Young’s level or anything, then the walks are the next part of his game he needs to work on improving.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Maybe
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
His big issues were the Ks
not taking walks and inability to hit with two strikes on him.
When he came back up he was swinging very early in counts desperate to stay away from getting two strikes on him. Pitchers are going to adjust to him doing that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
contact rate
was horrid. He missed balls in the zone as much as out of the zone. That’s mechanical, and should be corrected.
He’s also got some approach adjustments to make, but that’s not uncommon for a 23 yr old kid with fairly limited time in the minors.
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
not fair to say that he was not making contact with anything...
may 27th v NYY when CD ended the inning w/ strikeout (either 4th or 6th inning – he ended both w strikeouts), he tried to break his bat on his leg. that was contact.
fwiw – that was during “13 strikeouts in 5 days” performance that saw his average plummet to .194, so he might have been frustrated.
defeatist pussy lives here
by sam in so cal on Mar 4, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Who's "we"
do you have a tapeworm or a ferret attached to your balls or something?
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
JD has options in case of a Davis failure
Starting with Smoak and Max. Many players would have to turn out to be failures to affect JD, not just Davis.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 3, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
young players
you’re swapping young player for young player at that point, and it certainly is reasonable to expect Smoak and/or Max to struggle given they have little to no ML experience.
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
You're missing the point
If Davis AND Smoak AND Max all fail, then there’s a hole in first base offensively. That’s a lot of bad things that have to happen to get there and even then the Rangers overcame a hole at first base last year despite down years from Kinsler and Hamilton. One player failing is not going to affect the fortunes of the GM. You will have to have many more players failing before JD’s fortunes are affected.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 3, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I think he's saying you have options
But those options will be a downgrade, so really we don’t have a lot of options.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
Again even if the only option is David Murphy at 1B
it’s not going to affect the fortunes of the GM.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 3, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I like Murphy, a lot.
I am not sure if I want him at first full time, though.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
I don't either
I’m just saying if that’s the worst case scenario, JD is safe.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 3, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
So many pieces of the puzzle would come into place
if Smoak is ready for The Show this year.
You could live with a bad ass Ozzie Smith clone at SS and whatever crap we roll out at catcher if Smoak becomes Frank Thomas this year.
If THAT happened, This Thing could win 95 games in their sleep.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
You're ridiculous
So irrationally hard on Davis. Yet you’re dreaming about Smoak being a god. Smoak might not do shit in the majors.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
frank thomas
one of the top 25 hitters in the history of baseball
…at least your aiming high?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
KOK
I said “If”.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
frank thomas rookie year
60 games, .330 BA, 11 2b, 7 hr, 31 RBI, 44bb/54k, .454 OBP, .429 slg, .983 ops, 177 ops+
…at age 22.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Wasn't that 1990 or so?
A meandering White Sox team came out of nowhere to win …94 games? They fell just behind (maybe 7-8 games) Oakland.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I was looking at Hurt's #'s the other day...they were just foolish man....his run from 91-97 is just silly.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know what Smoak's upside is
but if he’s even 90% of The Big Hurt….and can go to the 3 hole in this line-up, so many things come together.
We’ll no longer be screwed if Josh has an ingrown toe-nail that sidelines him for two months or has another compulsion to put his hat on backwards and lather himself up with whip cream.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
90% of a top 25 hitter (probably higher than that)
is way too much to ask of any player who has yet to have 1 major league AB
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
kok
I’m dreaming on Smoak.
I haven’t seen him play and I’m relying on stats and what others are saying about him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
where is anyone saying anything
about him being 90% of frank thomas?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Big power hitter,
on-base machine, patient, well-disciplined, better command of the strike-zone than anybody else in the minors are all the types of things I’ve heard said about Smoak and are things that The Big Hurt was in The Show.
Is that okay?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
clearly being good in the minors=the majors
hey ruben rivera wants to talk to you.
maybe we can compare robbie ross to greg maddux next
or even engle beltre to barry bonds!
i personally think alex ogandi is the next lee smith!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I have hopes
but I’m grounded in reality, kok.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Smoak
The guys at BP have described his upside as “a switch-hitting Justin Morneau.”
"Jesus, Spanish- our jobs aren't enough, now you want our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
A switch-hitting Justin Morneau
would be a welcome addition to what we currently have.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
again
i think its a little early to call him ANYTHING until the guy actually has some MLB time under his belt.
comparing him to someone who has 1 MVP and 1 2nd place finish in MVP voting is just too hefty for me
…how about we compare justin smoak to…justin smoak.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Big power?
Dude who hit 12 HR last season? Minor league career .160 ISO? With a swing that doesn’t look (to me anyway) like it will produce good, but not monster, power? I think Smoak’s going to be good, but I can’t see him as any better than 3 WAR consistently
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Some people don't like the Tex comps
specifically because they say he doesn’t have that 40 HR power.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
your missing the point
look at the rest of those white sox
carlos martinez played 92 games at 1b with an awe inspiring 63 ops+ (.224 in 272 AB, .252 obp) the other guy who played 1b (steve lyons) hit an even better 45 ops+ (.192 in 163 AB, .245 obp)
those white sox won 94, but thir pythag was 87 wins
top 3 in ops+ outside of thomas were fisk @ 134, dan pasquana at 136, ron kittle at 118 and ivan caleron at 110.
they had 2 guys with ops+ in the 90s 9both got 500+ abs), 2 guys with OPS+ int he 80s (both got 500+ abs), and gave scott fletcher almost 600 ABs of a 75 ops+
they had a team BA of .258 and a team…a TEAM ops of .699
were totally carried by their pitching (3.61 era, 1.28 whip)
if we end up anything like them we will be in some deep deep shit.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
well hitting wise we will be
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
My recollection is that The Big Hurt
came up in early August.
What do you think he would have done if he had been called up in May and don’t you think he would have helped their offense?
That may not have been an issue with Thomas because he may have been called up to the big club two months after getting drafted.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
so if the rangers are winning, in first place in their division
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
nm wrong posted place
to compare anyone to thomas is stupid.
…just compare them to pujols instead lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Its kinda tough
to sign a quality first baseman with the promise that a) the team has long term plans there already, and b) that the best they will be is a backup coming out of spring training. Not much of a selling point there.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
If Davis and Smoak fail
they are just as likely to go to Moreland then with Max. It depends who is hitting better in AAA.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
I didn't miss the point
but you combined 2 issues. The ‘options if CD sucks’ and the ‘JD hotseat’ issues. I agree more than Davis has to go South for JD to be in trouble — though I think that if that does happen JD is in more trouble than most around here would like to think about.
The issue of who replaces CD if he sucks again is a whole different can of worms, and really only Josey and maybe a couple of others thinks they are tied together. So my earlier post just replied to one of the issues you brought up.
I think JD needs to get to 92 wins
if he wants to stay off the hot seat.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
JW
so if they win the division with 85 wins and go 2 rounds deep hes on the hotseat
…what if they win 92 games and get swept in the 1st rd?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think that would go under
“special circumstances” and JD would be safe.
Winning 85 games isn’t a good plan if the goal is to qualify for post-season.
I love what Nolan did.
Accountability at the major league level, baby!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
i would love to see your list of circumstances
what if he wins 95 games but they dont win the division/wildcard?
what if he wins 82 games, but hamilton/kinsler/harden/vlad/cruz all get hurt?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
If they win 95 games but don't win the division
JD is safe.
If they win 82 games with all those injuries, JD will have a fork in his ass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
so lets get this straight
hamilton hits the wall and messes up his shoulder
kinsler breaks his leg running to first base
harden get hit by a comebacker and is never the same
vlad… is vlad?
cruz gets hit in the head and has post consussion problems
…its JDs fault and he should be fired?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Shhhhhhhhh
You’re trying to make sense of the nonsensical. Don’t hurt yourself.
I am Jurickson Profar son of judeska and chesmond.. And I was born ready! ready to play baseball!!- Jurickson Profar 2/15/2010
by Aquaman, Esq. on Mar 3, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
yeayeayea
i should know better
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Over/under on comments on this thread
250
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
>400
"Jurick Profar is tired of practice!! I wanna play I wanna play….waiting for march 12 to go to spring training! to kill some pichers:D:D I am Jurickson Profar son of judeska and chesmond.. And I was born ready! ready to play baseball!!" - Jurickson Profar
I don't know, someone may have to start up some microbrew talk here later on....:)
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I did a long-ass write up on this a while ago
But I have a test to get to, so no time to post the whole thing again…
Basically, my stance is this: Davis has hit everywhere he’s been. Including the majors. He was excellent during his stint here in ’08. It seems likely last year was an aberration caused by a number of factors, among them a disconnect with the now-departed hitting coach. I have a hard time believing he simply hit a wall at the age of 23 sometime during the last offseason.
I've just always had trouble believing he could sustain it with that horrible plate approach.
It’s certainly possible, and he did more at every level for longer than I could have imagined, and I hope I’m wrong, but I wasn’t confident in Davis going in to ‘09 and I’m even less confident now.
I do think he has a solid chance to be a useful Major Leaguer, though. I just don’t know that Smoak won’t be the better choice this year.
SI has a front page article on the Rangers
here. There’s a bit on the Davis situation as well.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Hmmm
Interesting tidbit on CJ:
Wilson, 29, had a 2.81 ERA as a reliever last season, and lobbied for the chance to start. If he wins the job, Daniels says he will be under no innings limit. “You look at guys like [Ryan] Dempster, guys like [Adam] Wainwright, that went from 65 appearance in the bullpen to 200 innings in the rotation, with no problems,” says Daniels.
They do say they will limit Neftali’s innings should he make the roto.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
There's a difference between a 29 year old arm
and a 21/22 year old arm. One pitcher is still developing physically while the other one is not.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I agree, just thought it was a talking point after some of the conversations around here the last coupla days.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I've seen that too
and don’t agre with that at all. Like JD has said, there are current examples to show that it can be done. If the team sees that potential in CJ this spring, I think a lot of people are prematurely writing him off from the beginning.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
THIS
and did Dempster and Wainwright throw as many pitches per inning? CJ’s not exactly the most efficient pitcher around.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
CJ needs to just shut his damn mouth and pitch
i love the guy as much as anyone else, but damn dude STFU and play.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Wasn't Wainwright
a starter in the Braves and Cards’ systems?
"Jurick Profar is tired of practice!! I wanna play I wanna play….waiting for march 12 to go to spring training! to kill some pichers:D:D I am Jurickson Profar son of judeska and chesmond.. And I was born ready! ready to play baseball!!" - Jurickson Profar
yea i thought he was a SP for the braves for sure
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
...
Can’t resist, got to get this out of the way
As a reliever, Wainwright averages 19 pitches per outing. Dempster is at 17. Wilson is at 18. Per PA, Wainwright averaged 3.85 pitches. Dempster was at 3.87 pitches. CJ’s currently at 3.98.
And since moving to the rotation, Wainwright has averaged 3.64 pitches per PA, and Dempster is at 3.82.
You can’t really draw much of a conclusion from these numbers past getting some curious tidbits. The bottom line for CJ will be whether his stuff will translate to the rotation and if he’s got the stamina to make it up to 100 pitches. The rest will work itself out.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Mar 3, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
those are interesting numbers...
It will indeed be interesting to see if a pitcher who throws 18 pitches per inning when he REALLY needs to find the plate will wind up being a pitcher who averages 20 or more pitches per inning ie…a 4 or 5 inning starter, which the Rangers don’t need. If it ain’t broke don’t try and fix it in other words my vote is to keep him in the bully but we shall see.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
neither of those are examples that are good ones imho
wainwright was 24 and had been a starter previously in the minors (had 2 relief appearances vs 138 starts — link) vs having 63 as a major leaguer
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
oops
hit post too soon
and dempster was a starter
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
yea
wainwright started his first game at age 25 (that said, went from 75 iP to 202)
also his example of dempster is not only stupid, its fucking moronic.
ryan dempster started 10+ games EVERY SINGLE YEAR between 1998 and 2005.
ryan dempster has 225 starts and 225 relief appearences in his career.
ryan dempster was a reliever for four years of his 12 year career in the major leagues. he stated 20+ games every year he has been a starter (rookie year had 11 starts/14 appearences)
dempster is not a good example AT ALL.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Brilliant analysis
Of course, Dempster went 4 straight years with only 6 starts at the beginning of the 05 season. CJ has gone 4 straight years without starting a single game, but in 05, started 6 ML games and 16 games in the minors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
he went 4 years with only 6 starts after how many years as a starter was more my point
im sorry, i just dont see the upside in taking away one of the few “stable” parts of the bullpen to move to a rotation that already has a ton of 4th/5th starter options (about 5 off the top of my head) and who SHOULD be behind holland/feliz almost no matter what for the future
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
What does it matter how many years he started?
Are we just going to ignore CJ’s entire history as a starter before 2006?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
its a dumb ass comparison (wainwright and dempster)
not sayingi n general but im saying those specific 2 guys are.
as a question, how many MLB relief pitchers do you think were 100 pure relievers during their time in the minor leagues? i can almost bet you its not a large %.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
There is no perfect comparison
when you are going outside the norm in baseball. Those 2 guys though are good comps as far as looking at relievers making the transition to the rotation and having an immediate impact.
To answer your question, not many. But there is a difference between a guy like Doug Mathis who was always in the rotation but never expected to stick and a guy like CJ who was always in the rotation and expected to make it there when in the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
no they arent really thats the entire point
dempster was a starting pitcher for years before he went to the bullpen and the reason eh went to the bullpen IIRC is due to the fact he had TJ (and was going to go back to the rotation if you believe this espn story befor pinella stopped it) — clearly CJ did not go from being a starter to the bullpen.
wainwright had one year in the bullpen and was a starter EVERY OTHER YEAR he was a professional. clearly not the case with CJ
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
The only reason CJ went to the bullpen
was because he was thrown into the rotation the year following his TJ surgery when he had only about 70 IP in AA. Its not like he was thrown into the bullpen because he didn’t project to be a starter.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
i personally think he needs to STFU and pitch
but thats just me
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
And for the most part, that's what he does
The only reason it doesn’t seem like that is because people blow it out of proportion
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
except for all the times he has said
he wanted to start that is.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
it's not just you, BigGuns to C.J.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
i think i almost just had a seizure
…lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
That may be worse than my laser kitty
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
heh Rodney do you ever watch the Wanda Sykes Show?
She has an ensemble of singers that sing …“Shut up shut up shut up” and she’s like the orchestra head, it’s pretty funny, she uses it for Dick Cheney clips and so forth…
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
No, I think I'd rather die first...
Sounds funny though.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Damn you...
and your sanity and reasoning. This is the internet: there’s no place for such things.
It's funny...
…I was thinking the same thing while partially wading through the JWDiarrhea. Even if you didn’t have the MLB debut to go off of, the minor league track record and the age at which he compiled that record at show that he’s a legit prospect who, though his player type requires longer to develop at the MLB level, has a good chance at being an above average option at first base. Adding in his initial MLB debut should suggest that Davis deserves more than the 2-3 month tryout that a few are suggesting around here.
It is interesting that Davis has shown a greater propensity to walk in the minors…interesting and encouraging.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Mar 3, 2010 11:44 AM CST via mobile reply actions
My patience with Davis would be more if
This Thing had no chance to win the division.
We have a legit chance this year and are considered the favorites by some…factoring in that Davis was partially responsible for killing our offense last year and there appear to be viable alternatives in the pipeline…I don’t have near as much patience.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I don't advocate getting rid of him if he
shits the bed again … but I would send him back to OKC for a full season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Can you at least give the guy a chance to prove you wrong?
You’re ready to bench him before opening day.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
by DerekSTheRed on Mar 3, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Davis alone
doesn’t sink ‘This Thing’ anymore than Davis alone sank it last year — regardless of your repetitious bit.
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
would you rather have smoak starting at 1b on opening day
than davis?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know if Smoak is ready yet
but I don’t have a lot of faith in Davis returning to his 2008 form.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
so in 2009
who would have a better year in the major leagues, assuming they each got a total of 140 starts?
smoak or davis?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know.
But I hope Smoak would have been better.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
lol
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Josey is mysteriously
absent from the community projections for CD and blalock by the way. very convenient.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Mar 3, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
From last year?
I can’t remember if I projected them or not.
I thought Davis was a helluva candidate to hit 35 HRs going into 2009.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Yeah i couldnt find you in either thread
Im bored at work so im constructing a “how we did” spreadsheet. Looking at percent variances. Right now Davis’ OPS was predicted anywhere from 805-919.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
link to the thread?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
here ya go
http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/3/12/794281/community-projections-chri
Also if you search community projections it will bring up all 13 we did I believe.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
I was a little optimistic in that thread because I didn't want to get piled on, and AJM's speech about how special he thought Davis was going to be got to me.
I didn’t think I was THAT optimistic, though. I’m ashamed.
Not that I thought at any point he’d be as bad as he was.
Im almost done entering the data for Davis
and EVERYONE was projecting an OPS of more than 800.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
Bleah
Even being conservative, I had him at .805.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Any chance we do those again this year?
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I may have participated in
a couple of those.
It’s not like I’m shy with opinions/predictions.
I do know I was in the McCarthy projection and nailed the MF.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
You and a few other ppl did well in terms of McCarthy
you may wait a mulligan on Andrus though. OUCH!!
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
want*
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
You said partially responsible.
That makes me smile. I’m glad you didn’t make an insinuation that it was totally his fault this time. WAY TO GO! : )
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
In the words of the much hated Hawk Harrelson....
“The man is going to be an absolute terror someday”. He’s still very young, back off!!!
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
Jeez, no kidding AJM
Unfortunately, some have made his ’09 season the very thing that will destroy the world, and all its inhabitants…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
wow I'm going to stock up on water and canned goods then..
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
by BigGuns on Mar 3, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone else having probs with this page not loading fully?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:45 AM CST reply actions
Josey
Why are you so quick to dismiss Davis despite his minor league track record but you give Max Ramirez the reach around?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:53 AM CST reply actions
to be fair
maxram should get a pass for last year imho
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I agree, but not my point.
Josey is ready for Max to be in Arlington right now.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Which is kind of funny
Considering how he still thinks Lofton was worthless and gave us nothing in return.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
No, Gdawg.
I thought spending $ 6 million on a 40 year old CF and expecting him to help the 2007 Rangers win was a really dumb idea and the 23-42 start to that season validates those thoughts.
Whether or not JD made a good trade for Lofton is TBD.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Who did you want to play CF for us in 2007?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
This is an old, old, old argument Grande Esteban.
When you’re 13 games out by June 1 or start the season 23-42, you probably didn’t make a lot of good decisions in the off-season.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Who cares what our record was
Your argument is we shouldn’t have spent 6 mil on a 40 year old CF. One that put up pretty good numbers while here and was flipped for a prospect you tout that should be a good MLer because of his minor league track record.
Who should have played CF instead of Lofton? Laynce Nix? Would he have been a better chance at helping the 2007 team win? Marlon Byrd? The guy who couldn’t make the roster and passed through waivers. Who?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
wooo laynce nix, FTW!
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
do you realize that lofton
was the 2nd best hitter on the rangers by OPS+ in 2007?
he had a higher OPS and SLG than FOTF.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 3, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
See my above response to Esteban Grande.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
your hindsight is 20-20
too bad you are talking out of your ass.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
I shouldn't have even brought this up
It was dumb and will likely just cause 100 troll and troll-baiting posts. Please, no one else respond to this.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Notice how this issue was easily
sidestepped and diffused?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Because Max walks some
That’s all. That’s Wails’ entire rationale.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I think Max
can hit at an acceptable level in The Show this year. I want him on the team so we have ph option for our catchers (The Mensa doesn’t like to ph for his catchers if he only has two on the team), somebody there if Vlad breaks down or an option to platoon or ph for Davis.
A .398 OBP compiled over 6 years is a really good indicator that he won’t drown and he had a .345 (or was it .335 obp) in The Show two years ago in 55 plate appearances as a 23 year old.
Do I think he’s going to be a star or believe he’s “reacharound worthy” ? Dunno but he’ll hit at an acceptable level.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
thank you
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Mar 3, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
stick it.
Quit spamming my facebook.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
If I could change one thing about the comments here
and the general thinking of fans, it would be that we all kept our perspective on things like this. We continually overreact to short samples from young players.
We are the same bunch that wanted to DFA Feldman, put Kata on the roster, trade Holland, No, DON’’t trade Holland (after one stellar start), Feliz is in the bullpen – on no, he’ll always be there!, Max Ramirez is awesome call him up now — no wait, Max sucks, and on and on and on and on and on.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
it is the
“i told you so” complex. Everyone wants to be the guy that called it.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Mar 3, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Well, and scapegoating
can be very satisfying, unfortunately. Life is full of very complex situations with a lot of gray areas. Most people try too hard in all of those areas to find easy explanations and point the finger.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I think
you’re overthinking it.
A lot of us are retarded and we arrive at retarded conclusions. That’s all there is to it.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Hahah
Another possibility and perhaps the most accurate
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Mar 3, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
this
and the thinking regarding prospects that follows: ‘he sucks cuz he doesn’t profile as an ace’
That kind of thinking drives me bonkers…
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not calling for anything drastic with Davis.
I’m not that optimistic about him, but I do think there’s plenty of reason to go with him at first to start this year and give him a chance to be a contributing first baseman.
I just personally think it’s more likely that there will come a point in the first half where Smoak will look like the better option.
Agreeance.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I think its 50/50
that Smoak ends up looking like the better choice over Vlad than over Davis — especially when Vlad ends up on the DL.
Right now it’s 50/50. Smoak has to be healthy and hit left handed pitching and Davis has to be almost as bad as he was last year and Vlad has to be healthy and be productive in order for Smoak to be the better option over Davis.
I just don’t think Davis will be that bad again.
by elvis1isking on Mar 3, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
philkid3.
I think really only you, DJCahill, and I were skeptical of Davis heading into last year.
Unfortunately, we seem to have attracted the JW miasma and all the joys that come with it….
R
Interesting interpretation
I looked through last year’s projection thread and I see quite a few people projecting Davis’ 2009 with about a .310 OBP and .500 slugging. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me at all. Cahill projected him quite a bit higher than that, as did philkid.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Of what?
HUh?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
The 2009 pre-season Chris Davis skeptic of the year award
sponsored by… never mind
Gotcha
I was being a bit conservative there, yes. Just a feeling, not a hope though.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I will say that I was not that skeptical in the projections thread.
I feel like I was more skeptical elsewhere, though. Certainly I didn’t think Law was off base.
I want to believe Z when he says he thinks he has the contact ability to make up for that awful approach, though.
Except
the problem with Davis is his minor league K rate and BB rate. Compared to the hitters listed Davis has far and away the lowest minor league BB rate, and the 2nd highest minor league K rate, only to Howard.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
OT: When we will make community projections
it is in the avg/obp/slg format right?
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
OT Nolan says 92 wins.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=4962074
I keep telling people in here and over at NMLR, JD better have a very good 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
If history is our guide
it’s gonna be a close shave to win the AL West or make it to the Wild Card.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Dont know if 92 wins will make the playoffs
you are right, it will be close but would you take a 92 win team that doesnt make the playoffs? Is it playoffs or bust this year? Or would an incremental 5-7 win improvement suffice?
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
There are always going to be
extenuating circumstances but that’s a nice baseline of survival.
Now if JD freezes or bungles a trade at the deadline or if we have another Davis/Hank F screw up that leaves us just short, he’s going to be under review.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
in all honesty
i was okay with standing pat at the trade deadline this past season. However, if we are within 2 (or better) of the WC or division i will definitely be wanting a trade. A smart trade of course but this year, as a fan, I would press the issue a little more.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
Upon further review
and not trying to start a 100 Years War, I think we should have made big runs at both Nick Johnson and/or Garko and moved Hank F back to DH.
The money was there because we traded for Pudge in mid-August.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
How can you say upon further review?
Johnson promptly went and got hurt and missed a decent chunk of the end of the season
And Garko went and stunk up the joint.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
There are no guarantees that Johnson would have been
hurt if he’d been in Texas much like are no guarantees Garko would have hit that poorly while playing half of his games in this park.
What I do know is that the strategy used by JD failed miserably.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
But you can't say "upon further review"
And then say things would have been different. Upon further review means you take what happened and change what you did because of it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
But doing nothing other than hoping
the problem would fix itself was the worst strategy.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
OK thats possible
But given what those guys did after being traded neither of them would have been a help to us last year. The only guy who would have been was Victor Martinez but he was out of our price range and there is no denying that.
So upon further review, given our financial situation, there was no good move to make.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
uh
we paid for maybe a month of Pudge’s $1.5 million salary.
so, call it $225 k…… I think we spent more on Danny Gutierrez.
Nick Johnson’s salary: $5.5 mil
Garko we could have afforded, OTOH. Not that he’d have been all that good, but we could have afforded him.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Who was available at that point?
Manny & JBay moved at the deadline but can’t remember anybody else.
Our big need at that deadline was a starting pitcher and improved defense but we were on the fringe of the race and not sure a starting pitcher would have done anything other than help us get to .500.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Sellers, JW. Sellers.
We weren’t going anywhere and we had a couple productive players without a future on the team.
It’s not a big deal, but I would have liked some trades to stock the farm.
Gotcha.
Right around that trade deadline is when MB went into his act and I wanna say Millwood conveniently tweaked something as well.
Which player(s) other than those two could have been dealt?
Maybe Laird?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
As I remember it
a couple of the tradeables we had got injured at an inopportune time.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
ah the good old hank F arguement
as a question, without looking how much higher do you think hank’s OPS is than davis?
what about hank’s slg vs davis?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Hank's gone, kok.
Let yourself heal.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Yes, Hank's gone
so YOU can shut the fuck up about it too.
Jesus.
by vfn on Mar 3, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
let me lay it on the line
statistically there isnt much of a difference between them your moron
literally like less than .005 difference on OPS and slg — 1 pt on OPS+
add in davis’ defense and the fact that hes young and cheap and i see ZERO reason to ever talk about hank blalock in any comparison to chris davis again
…just to make it clear. hank blalock has yet to sign with a team ONE YEAR after hitting 25 home runs, at age 28 — and ST has started.
if hank F was all you seem to think hes cracked up to be riddle me this, why is he still a free agent?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Don't you know?
The team won some games while Hank was playing first base.
THAT PROVES SOMETHING DEEP AND IMPORTANT!
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Well wouldn't it be on the players + coaches?
“I just feel like that’s a number that this ballclub should be able to reach,” Ryan said Wednesday. “It’s hard to sit here before we play a spring game and predict, but I feel like we have the depth and talent and we’re capable of doing that.”
He’s acknowleding that JD has built this team right, and now it’s on Wash + the players. You don’t see that?
2010 is not a make or break year for JD
I expect this team to win at least 90 games. If they do and still fall short then 2011 will be the year of reckoning for JD.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
I think Nolan let JD
do his job without seeking approval for moves this year.
If JD improved the team, he’ll stay beyond 2010.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I'm not denying that...
and the team IS better.
If they don’t produce, I would probably blame Washington first.. THEN I would blame JD.
But
if the team fails or underachieves this year, that would be 4 out of 5 years of failure / underachievement under JD’s watch.
Just because you supposedly have one of the best minor league pipelines doesn’t mean you should get to see it through at the big league level.
It’s two different skillsets.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Well JD
has provided Washington the necessary pieces to have a winner. It is up to Wash to manage a winning team now. I dont think anyone will argue that the talent on the team is impressive.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
And just like with Davis, doesn't anyone realize how old JD is?
How very little time he’s been a GM? He was the youngest GM ever at the time he was promoted. There has to be a learning curve in there somewhere. The Rangers aren’t winning WS titles hand over fist, but he has worked the team in to a playoff contender, built an impressive farm system, all while being handcuffed with a low market spending limit!
I think some around here need to take that into consideration before villifying him and saying he’s out the door. The man is moving the team forward with what he has at his disposal and is still learning on the job. We aren’t the Yankees, but we certaily aren’t the KC Royals. Let JD grow into his job.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
x
4 out of 5 years of failure / underachievement under JD’s watch.
We’ve also had 3 straight years of improved record, under JD’s watch, using more of the players that JD acquired (as opposed to Hart). So yeah.. add on to that “one of the best minor league pipelines” and you’ve got yourself a job well done. How you don’t see that is amazing, but then again.. I’m committing cardinal sin #1 by even replying to you.
He needs 92 wins, minimum.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
You know this?
You know the organization demands he gets 92 wins or else he’s on the hotseat? Yet you can’t even give a prediction of how many wins you think the team will get.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I'll have a prediction
on how many wins I think the team will have before the regular season.
Thanks for asking.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Nolan made his prediction
Guess you’re just kind of a pussy about this thing.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Don't you understand that Nolan is Josey?
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you mean This Thing?
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
by JBP on Mar 3, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
This seems like a silly, dug-in-stance conjecture that has all the odds of making you look foolish next year
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
does his mancrush on feliz and perez
outweigh his dislike of andrus
…i say yes
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I'm thinking this is misplaced
Because I love Andrus, Feliz, and Marteen equally, in a platonic way.
Although I give Elvis the edge in sexiness, personally.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
not supposedly
they do have one of the best farm systems — talent wise — in the Majors. Have had for 3 years now.
No guarantee of ML success, but to continue to dismiss the facts of the talent at the minor league levels continues to be one of your more silly biases against JD.
I don't dismiss the supposed talent at the minor league level
but that shouldn’t give him carte blanche to keep fucking up at the major league level.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Heh, see... this is where I already told him that our record has improved...
each of the last 3 years…
He’ll keep beating that point home until he’s blue in the face,
If 87 wins on the payroll he was provided with is fucking up at the major league level
You need to go back to being a mother fucking Yankees fan.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
not yankee
dodgers fan
he used to be (is?) a dodgers fan
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
again, not supposed
they have real talent. You won’t find one respectable entity that grades minor league baseball prospects that doesn’t have the Rangers at or near the very top as far as the collection of talent at the minor league level. It isn’t supposed talent, it is real talent.
As I said before, that’s not a guarantee of success at the ML level, but the Rangers have amassed one hell of a collection of talented young baseball players to feed the parent organization.
If you’d quick jerking off to your Galloway picture long enough to actually look at what’s happening with ‘This Thing’ you’d truly see in just how good of shape JD has put this organization in regards to talent.
I think injuries will make or break the team
If 2/3 of Vlad, Hammy and Harden are pretty healthy and effective the team gets 92 wins. There are enough internal options for the Rangers to get to 92 if 2 get injured but it would be a struggle.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
92 wins?
Won’t be surprised if it happens but I don’t think he should be expecting it.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
OT
But would there be interest in Rocco as the 5th OF? Probably can play center better than both Hamilton and Murphy, would give Bourbon a break against tough lefties, and would be nice insurance against injuries.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
No interest
whatsoever.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
A guy with a debilitating mitochondrial disease is nice insurance against injuries?
Mmk.
by LiamP on Mar 3, 2010 1:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Debilitating?
He went on the DL last season, sure, but he seems to have recovered and played in only 60 something games last season because the Red Sox outfield was so stacked. And with this outfield, it’s not like he’d have to play a lot. It would be nice, however, to have more than one player who could play a decent center AND hit.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
hes cooked
signed a deal i believe to be a roving instructor with the rays + evidently has major shoulder issues
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4959387
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Yeah, I didn't see the shoulder thing until now
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Hammy......
•Heyman notes that Josh Hamilton turned down a four-year, $24MM offer from the Rangers last year. The security might’ve made sense for Hamilton given his injury problems.
Via MLBTR
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Seems like a fair offer.
Biggest question is his health.
"There's not a man alive who can whup me. I'm too fast. I'm too smart. I'm too pretty. I should be a postage stamp. That's the only way I'll ever get licked." --Muhammad Ali
Glad he turned it down
Just go year to year with him and take what you can get.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
yea that would seem pretty damn easy to turn down
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
x
Trevor127 (Fort Worth, TX): KG, Feliz at #3 is a bit of a surprise. Are you convinced he’ll be a starter, any reports on his off-season progress with his secondary offerings?
Kevin Goldstein: Well, his slider is damn good now, and I’ve seen him snap off some good changeups. He’ll likely be used as a starter this spring, and I think that’s where his future lies, just maybe not in 2010.
Jonathan (New York): Has Martin Perez accelerated his timetable so much that there’s a reasonable chance he sees the big leagues this year? Or are the Rangers going to slow him down now and get him a full year at the upper levels?
Kevin Goldstein: I’ve been told by people who now that Perez has every opportunity to earn a September look.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Perez quote
Scary…..but exciting.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Also...
…I was looking at BA’s top 100 on si.com and noticed that Perez is the only teenager in the top 20. Westmoreland at 21 and Matzek at 24 are the other teenagers in the top 25.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Michael Jordan (TX): If you didn’t hate Elvis Andrus, and he was eligible for your top 101, where would he rank? As a Rangers fan, I’m hoping the top 10.
Kevin Goldstein: I don’t hate Elvis Andrus. That’s a myth, but I can’t say I’m not entertained by how worked up some get when I say he’s not the greatest thing ever. He would not be in the top 10 for me. I think he’s a very good player, I just don’t think he is, or ever will be a true impact level one.
Really?
"There's not a man alive who can whup me. I'm too fast. I'm too smart. I'm too pretty. I should be a postage stamp. That's the only way I'll ever get licked." --Muhammad Ali
In this case, 1% better than Elvis' performance
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
i think he means the hype is simply wayyyy too much
…and IT IS.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
What is the hype that is too much?
Not joking around, the serious hype that’s too much.
And that’s not telling me what “true impact level” is. Nor does how over or underhyped he is have anything to do with what I asked.
oh i have no say on the true impact level stuff
but rangers fans (not anyone specifically) seem to think he is going to be this superfuckingawesome SS and its entirely possibly that hes not going to. he is not going to be hanley. he is not going to be arod. i hope hes not going to be nomar.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I really don't think that many people think he's a guaranteed super star.
I think they think he’s likely to be usually an All-Star caliber player, which is something he was very close to as a 20 year old, with the potential upside to be something on the level of Roberto Alomar.
I don’t think that’s unrealistic at all.
i would be very happy with alomar
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I think we overreact
to him on this. I think Andrus is better than Goldstein gives him credit for, but he is most certainly not a slam dunk superstar.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I don't think he's a slam dunk superstar, either.
But Goldstein’s deal with him is bizarre. He says things sometimes that are flat out wrong, or uses nebulous terms like “true impact level” to defend his stance.
Hanley
I see Goldstein comp him to Hanley a lot. Well, ok, so Andrus isn’t going to be Hanley, but who is?
I get as much of a kick out of Goldstein holding Hanley Ramirez against Andrus as I do the overreaction by many to Goldstein’s Elvis bit.
I think Goldstein thinks we think that
Or something like that
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
I'm sure someone made the comparison somewhere
And KG’s stance seems to tend towards ’He’s not going to be Hanley’ (which is pretty obvious, as we know that Jurick is going to be Hanley. Only switch-hitting and with better D. And a bigger smile.)
Kind of one of those akward battles where both sides pretty much agree but state the same thing in different ways.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
OT awesome scenario.
Jurick goes on the A-Rod route of ready to kick pitchers’ teeth in at 19, but MY is still under contract, Elvis is for real and Ian is still playing well.
What do you do?
What do I do?
get drunk, jerk off, scream hallelujah, maybe all of those.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
by t ball on Mar 3, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I almost puked
From laughing so hard at that…
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
That's a trifecta!
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
Well, sure
the first two take at least a few minutes, and the 3rd is easily repeated.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Or LF
Depending on how Josh’s immune system and muscoskeletal sctructure hold up
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
That's my thought.
Profar gets adapted to third, and Face spends his last year as a Ranger wherever there’s room.
I could see him maybe having Hanley's overall value.
Hanley seems good for about mediocre defense and ~45 runs on offense. I could see Elvis being worth ~20 runs on defense and 25 runs on offense.
That’s, like, high end projection, though. I don’t think anyone expects him to consistently reach either of those heights, if ever.
Don't think anyone thinks that
But Goldstein references Hanley A LOT when he talks about Andrus just wasn’t “that good.”
Sometimes I think Goldstein just takes our love for Andrus and thinks we think he’s in Ramirez’s class.
I think Goldstein should take a little longer look at our history, and then he’d understand why we love Elvis so…
Yeah, he's definitely a bit stubborn about Elvis
but on the other hand, I can see a reasonable person thinking that Elvis is not going to get much better with the bat, and so he’s going to be a .700 OPS decent glove. Good player, not a star. I think he’s wrong about that, but what the hey.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
The part that got
me was “He would not be in the top 10 for me”.
"There's not a man alive who can whup me. I'm too fast. I'm too smart. I'm too pretty. I should be a postage stamp. That's the only way I'll ever get licked." --Muhammad Ali
you think he is a better prospect than
strasburg, heyward, feliz, montero, stanton, alverez, dez jennings, carlos santana, buster posey
…because thats his top 10.
his ceiling is SO far below many of those guys that its almost laughable.
ceiling is important….and so is floor. but i dont think that if you have a guy whose going to be good in the big leagues and you know he is that he goes in a top 10.
he is not a slam dunk superstar by any strech
hes not a superstar by any strech
completely honestly, what are the chances he turns into the SS version of franklin gutierrez?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
KG kidn of touched on this
jfish26101 (Morgantown): If you were to build an equation that fits your methodology for creating lists like your top 101, can you give an estimation of what the the weights be for the following variables: – floor – ceiling – stats – tools – makeup – pedigree This obviously wont be perfect and I wouldn’t expect you to use an equation but I think it could give a good idea of what you consider and how much weight you place in it. Thanks.
Kevin Goldstein: This is a great question, and I wish I had an equally great answer, which I don’t. At it’s most core level, I’m trying to balance a player’s ultimate upside with his ability to reach that upside. There is no pure formula here at all. There’s just a lot of history of looking at guys and knowing what they are and knowing how they tend to develop. It’s a ‘gut’ job in a lot of ways.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
The SS version of F-Gut?!
That would be fucking spectacular.
But it bears pointing out that his age 20 season was better than Gutierrez’s age 25 season.
as a question
because i am not sure/dont have access to +/- numbers
id love to see how they compared last year on defense :)
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
BJO subscriptions are like 3 bucks a month.
I should get one again, I’m just lazy. I know Gut probably kills him in plus/minus like he does in UZR. He’s ridiculous while Elvis is merely awesome.
oh really?
thought it was a lot more
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
ask and ye shall recieve
knockoutking (little rock): elvis andrus : SS :: franklin guitterez : CF?
Kevin Goldstein: Franklin Guitterez is a better center fielder than Andrus is a shortstop. That’s not an insult to Andrus who is a true plus defender there.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I agree with that.
But the offense doesn’t have to be as good to reach F-Gut’s level since he plays a more premium position.
But I’m not saying he will be the F-Gut of SS, you just seemed to mention that as if it would be a bad thing. It would be an awesome thing. And, again, Elvis was better at 20 than all but F-Gut’s most recent season.
oh no not at all
wasnt meaning it was a bad thing — was just interested to see some of the responses to it
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Yeah, I'd have him in the top 10
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Patience is fine.
But, if he struggles, we can NOT wait until July again to do something. What’s our backup plan here?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
fail
Do you really not know what the backup plan(s) are?
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I assume you mean Smoak
and then Moreland. Yes, i suppose I should have phrased it better. I guess what I’m asking is are do we think we have something better? All these guys with so much potential, I’m just ready to start seeing results.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Backup plans
If Davis starts off cold in April then i believe we will go one of two ways to address it. Either promote from within with Smoak if he is deemed ready. or if he isn’t we go look for a possible blockbuster trade. Adrian Gonzalez is the big name out there and we most definitely have the resources to acquire him. Question being are we willing to give up what it will take.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think it would be very hard...
to pay a huge amount to bring a guy back that we gave away for peanuts.
by vfn on Mar 3, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
You can't think like that
We gave AGon away. Thats over with. Done. Now if you want to re-acquire him you have to look at that as its own seperate entity. You pay what it’ll cost.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That's a poor answer
1) if the Rangers overreacted in April to a slow start by a firstbaseman, Teix would have spent half his career in AAA.
2) Davis will get more than one month.
3) Say Davis is sent down in April (he won’t) why would you trade for A-Gon? So he could block Smoak when Smoak’s ready?
Davis probably gets until June (maybe early June maybe late) and if Smoak isn’t ready then roll with Max. If Max doesn’t do it Moreland. No Moreland someone else. It’s first base – the lowest in the defensive spectrum.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
This is a year we are legitimate threats to win
few if any of Tex’s years were we like that.
I personally think Davis will get 6 weeks to show he has bounced back from last year
If Davis is sent down and we trade for AGon, Smoak is almost assured of being in that deal along with other top prospects.
Unless the other 8 guys in the lineup are lighting the world on fire I don’t think we give Davis very long of a leash this year. I think the hope is for the internal option to be ready should they need to make a move but if its not and we are muddling along at .500 around May 1st or mid May I think we look into making a bold move. Given AGons age and contract status he would fit that bill perfectly. I root for Davis but being realistic here for a second he can’t be anywhere near as bad as he was last year and stick in the majors for very long
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I definitely like the AGon answer
The new owners should be itching to pull the trigger on a big deal by then, especially, as you say, if they’re kind of farting around at .500.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
If they're around .500 you don't make a trade
If they’re a .500 team getting rid of one player and bringing one in isn’t going to change that. Big trades are done when a team is on the cusp or wants to place themselves head and shoulders in front of the pack. A .500 team isn’t looking to trade prospects for a short term, incremental improvement.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I disagree
AGon is an impact player. And if Davis is struggling I think the improvement from Davis to Gonzalez would be huge in the win column. Especially if the trade is made in May or early June.
And with Gonzalez’s contrcat situation it wouldn’t be just a short term solution. he could legitimately be our long term answer at 1B should we decide to go that route.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'll bet the improvement from Davis to Gonzalez is no more than 4-5 wins at best if made at that point in the season.
Not saying if that is or is not huge because it depends on the situation.
4-5 wins from that one spot
Not to mention how it could affect everyone else in the lineup.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
never bet on that stuff
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
I'll take the bet on "negligible" for how it would affect the rest of the lineup.
Of course there’s no way I can ever cash in on that.
People, not necessarily you, say MB affected the rest of the lineup with his patience
Bringing in AGon could have that same affect. We scored a ton of runs with Bradley in the lineup but didn’t have the pitching to turn that into a lot of wins. Now we have the pitching and if we got that kind of offense we would be heavy favorites.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
this is without a doubt the dumbest thing ever
(not you, in general)
patience isnt like radiation, people dont “get it” by being around it…
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
While I agree it's a dubious stance to take
bigsteve’s assertion is correct. Even some of the players attributed some of their approach to MB’s presence in the lineup
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
His assertation that people claimed it or his assertation that it's the reason?
If it’s the latter, it’s not “correct” until there’s convincing evidence it was correct.
(By the same token it’s not incorrect yet, either.)
his assertion that people claimed it
I can’t remember who exactly and I’m having trouble finding a quote. But i feel like i read quotes like that when he was here
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
I want to give our guys more credit than that.
Could they really be so ridiculous that they look at Bradley and decide to be patient, and then forget about that when he leaves?
If that’s true, you might have a good point, but I can never respect anyone on this team again.
I personally don't believe in it
Basically because Bradley didn’t have the same affect other places he went.
But I do feel that if you take a .230/.280/.400 (just a guess of what Davis would be hitting should we decide to trade for AGon) 7 hole hitter out of your lineup and replace that with a .300/.400/.500 hitter plugged into the 4 hole its gonna make alot more than a 4-5 win difference.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Even if A-gon for Davis is 4-5 wins
That takes you from being an 82 win team to an 87 win team. That doesn’t do jack if you’ve also unloaded a good part of the farm to get him.
Listen to the words coming out of my mouth – one player isn’t going to turn a .500 team into a playoff team.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Do you understand the words
that are coming out of my mouth?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
actually the question being
do they want to move him.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Want or willing?
No team WANTS to move a franchise player with AGons talent and potential. But given what we could offer them I think they would be willing to trade him absolutely
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
evidently a lot of the issue is how popular he is
with the fans, and the fact that their attendance is already low + hes a hispanic fan favorite
in the end i think they move him…but i think its to the bosox.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
OT - I'm really starting to get boned out on this upcoming season...
I’m going to get the MLB package…but I’m confused….
Do I order this through Verizon (my carrier)? If so, what is the other package some of y’all get through MLB? The same, or is it for your computers only?
I’m about to pull the mf triggah on something, hoping some of you could help me out.
Thanks.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 1:37 PM CST reply actions
I did it one yr through TWC
Order it through your provider.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
so is the one through MLB.com just for the laptop or something?
Cave, did you have an option to pay monthly? And did it include ST?
Spanks.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
included some spring training
games near the end of ST. I paid 4 payments of like 40 a piece i think. they just added it to my monthly bill. I think the MLB.com is just for your computer.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
x
You can either get the MLB ExtraInnings package through your cable provider (assuming they have it and don’t have to switch to DirecTV) or go with mlb.com.tv through your computer. You sign for that through MLB.com.
Some ST games are shown by both (I believe) and they’re free.
You can do payments for the TV package. I just switched back to cable a couple weeks ago since my cable provider just got the TV package.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
just a warning
depending on where you life ryin — you may be blacked out of mlb.tv
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
Right - you need to check that
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
GTFO josey
knockoutking (little rock): is there any reason that JD in texas should be on the hotseat if the rangers dont win 90+ games?
Kevin Goldstein: Because it’s a very young team with a lot of things that could go wrong. I think JD and his staff do a great job.
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
STFU everyone
t ball (Dallas): Is there any reason people should expect Josey to be the least bit logical or unbiased if the question is whether or not JD should be on the hotseat?
Imaginary Kevin Goldstein: Uh, no, I don’t any reason whatsoever to engage Josey in discussion on that issue.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
by t ball on Mar 3, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 13 recs
either I'm missing something or this just isn't that funny
I understand you’re supposed to take any shot you can at Josey….
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Flagged for being Buzz Killington.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
I do apologize
anyone willing to explain why this is funny?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Now who wants to hear a story about a bridge?
"Jesus, Spanish- our jobs aren't enough, now you want our words?"
-- Sterling Archer
I don't see the humor either.
by TooLegitToQuit on Mar 3, 2010 9:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OK, this is prolly more your style
T ball (Dallas): Is there any reason people should expect Josey to be the least bit logical or unbiased if the question is whether or not JD should be on the hotseat?
Imaginary Kevin Goldstein: Uh, no, I don’t any reason whatsoever to engageJoseyqueers and Indian looking dudes in discussion on that issue.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Mar 3, 2010 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Heh
I love it when you bash this guy.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
This did get chuckle out of me as well.
I feel bad, there will never be a time he’s not going to get some grief over that debacle.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Wreck It!
I just lolled myself to death.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
obviously we wish davis
lotsa luck and success.
i’m not huge on moreland.
davis could be something special if he could bring his strikeouts down quite a bit (obviously)
all those guys you listed are high strikeout guys (howard, is in a whole other league…but takes pitches and REALLY mashes balls) but davis was on pace to eclipse them by quite a bit.
i hope hope hope hope we can get 150 games out of him. maybe 160 strike outs and a line of 35 HR, 100+ RBI, .250/.330/.440
I still think Davis
could have the upside of a Henry Rodriguez type, with a hair more power.
I just think its more likely he is just a very average, nothing special 1B, with numbers similar to yours, although maybe a higher slugging average. maybe a 500 SLG instead of 440, and maybe a lower OBP of 310-320.
If Smoak looks good, I wouldn’t have any problem moving Davis to DH, and start grooming Smoak as the 1B of the future.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
was going to call bullsh
but went back and revisited Rodriguez’s numbers… I think you might be on to something there. Not a bad comp.
Slug would have to be higher than .440 to swat 35
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
If Davis posts a .250/.330/.440 line...
….he’s a big disappointment and probably not a starter with the Rangers next season.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 3, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
I plugged in .330/.440 on BtB's projection spreadsheet. . .
. . . that comes out as about a 0.5-0.7 WAR at DH and 1B over 500 PAs, depending on Davis’s fielding.
What about
an OBP in the .310-.320 range with slugging at .500?
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
That's about what I'm expecting, myself
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Mar 3, 2010 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
Stand by. . .
1.7 at first, 1.2 at DH.
It’s interesting how much of a drop it is to DH, even if it makes sense. That’s pretty close to an average player at first, which is what I’m thinking he can be. It should be pointed out that’s a 2.4 WAR at first over 700 PA, which is pretty much what can be looked at as above average, and that’s with mediocre defense.
This has grotten to be such a tiring hotbutton topic on this site
I don’t know why the hell it needed another thread.
Yes, we should be patient with Davis for now. That’s why he’s still locked in as the starting first baseman. Yet, as long as you acknowledge that fact, I don’t think theres anything wrong with keeping your expectations for him tempered. I suspect he’s going to have both extremely hot and extremely cold streaks this year, and as a result we’re probably not going to really know what we’ve got in him till after the season has concluded.
The only real question that’s going to be worth discussing in regards to Davis, IMO, is whether or not we’re willing to ride that rollercoaster out or replace him with Smoak somewhere along the line.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Give him 2 games in a row with 3 k's
and he’s toast on this board.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 3, 2010 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
yup.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
Actually
I think the 114Ks in 277 plate appearances with a .256 OBP while idiots in here and in the Ranger FO said he was still helping the team with his defense brought on some of the well-earned grief Davis received.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Which would you take?
This is not just for Wails:
Player A: Age 22, Level, AA, line .328/.449/.481 227 PA’s
Player B: Age 22, Level, AA, line .333/.376/.618 202 PA’s
The call to ditch Davis over his first half last year seems a bit premature. The thought that he’s going to be a low average slugger for the rest of his career seems wrong. I think Davis is going to become someone like Andres Galarraga. A high average, high power guy who strikes out a lot and doesn’t walk much but drives in a ton of runs and hits tons of homers. Or Vlad with more strikeouts and less speed.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
JW
clearly davis is horrible. a .284 ops at age 23 = bust and should never touch the field again, right?
davis career ops: .793 (age 24)
blalock career ops: .794 (age 29)
so if davis is “done forever” shouldnt hank be?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on Mar 4, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
well, yeah.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:01 PM CST reply actions
reply fail...i'm human.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 3, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
I thought you were a cyborg.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
shhhhh
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Mar 4, 2010 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know what's worse AJM...
the fact that you continue to acknowledge that Ass Antlers hijacks so many of the morning threads and you do nothing about it. Or that you continue to create more front page posts egging him on and encouraging him to rehash the same old tired 10 posts over and over again.
Another 400 post thread about CD with half of those posts coming from one clown. Who woulda thunk it?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Mar 3, 2010 11:42 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
You ever try a big slice of Key Lime Pie in the summer?
Good stuff.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Daniel Tosh fans...
perhaps the funniest Tosh.O episode I’ve seen tonight.
Even did a little bit on Epic Beard Man. Make sure you check it out.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I saw that too.
I laughed for 10 minutes when they showed the Ram Jam clip singing Black Betty.
F-ing hillarious.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
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