Monday morning Rangers things
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 8, 2010 9:54 AM CST
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PrintRain yesterday means not being able to obsess over the meaning of one more tiny sample size chunk of data, at least for another day...
Josh Hamilton is going to play today, though it is unclear whether it will be in the "B" game or the regular game.
Evan Grant has his latest projection of what he thinks the Opening Day roster will look like, with one change from the last version.
Jeff Wilson has a story up about Colby Lewis, and how he's a different pitcher now than he was when he was with the Rangers previously.
Randy Galloway also has a column on Lewis, noting that the Oakland A's and the Minnesota Twins made Lewis about the same offer contract-wise as the Rangers, with a spot in the rotation guaranteed. Galloway suggests that if the A's and Twins, two teams with a reputation for knowing what they are doing with pitchers, both liked Lewis that much, that bodes well for the Rangers.
T.R. Sullivan writes about Derek Holland battling this spring for a spot in the rotation.
Richard Durrett takes a look at pitching coach Mike Maddux.
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Minor Info
Durret also lists the pitchers today:
A Game:
RHP Brandon McCarthy
RHP Colby Lewis
RHP Darren O’Day
RHP Luis Mendoza
LHP Derek Holland
LHP Ben Snyder
B Game:
RHP Tanner Scheppers
LHP Michael Kirkman
LHP Zach Phillips
RHP Pedro Strop
RHP Warner Madrigal
Anthony Andro mentions Josh Hamilton is batting 3rd against the Angels today. I assume that means the A game.
Will there be a gameday for the B game? or an updating box score?
by groundingout on Mar 8, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
no gameday or box for the B game
refresh this LINK, he’s watching both games today
BTW, only half-right about the official reporting day for the minor leaguers —
All the Latin pitchers and catchers arrived today. Position players arrive on the 12th and report on the 13th.
Good words on Kirkman
Kirkman out of inning with no runs despite two errors. K’d Bloomquist on a nice slider. 4-sm sat arond 93. Also working on 87-ish 2-sm.
HBP, 4-6-3 dp, bouncer single to center, L1 for Kirkman’s second. Sat 91-92. Saved his face by catching that line drive. Rocket.
He looks confident on the mound. A lot to like there with him. He remains underrated by seemingly everyone except the org.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
It would be great if Hurley could tag along with Lewis and learn some of what it takes
to bounce back from rotator cuff surgery. That whole section describing Colby’s comfort level in Japan that allowed him to tweak his motion rather than reinvent for every level flaw might be sage advice for Hurly, who I am certain is going to want to come back as fast as possible.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Evan Grant's learned a few things here
not one snide remark about CJ. Although to be fair, CJ did give him plenty of ammo for a purely positive write-up.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
Andro had a tweet saying no Hamilton is the B game lineup, then followed up with this tweet… So I assume he’s in the A game today
aandro Josh Hamilton batting third and playing left vs. Angels.
Confirmed
Josh Hamilton will make his spring debut today, playing in the A game and batting third against the Angels. He’ll play no more than five innings and will play left field with Vlad Guerrero DHing.
I would rather play in the B game
if it saved me a bus trip somewhere in AZ
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
"A" game is a home game today
The lineup for Texas in that [B] game is: 1, Marcus Lemon; 2, Craig Gentry; 3, Nelson Cruz; 4, Chad Tracy; 5, Max Ramirez; 6, Jarrod Saltalamacchia; 7, Joaquin Arias; 8, Joey Butler; 9, Ray Olmedo.
Joey Butler – rockstar
Well then
There goes that theory.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Are you thinking it's a jab from Wash to Cruz, telling him to get his butt in gear?
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Possibly
or it could be a way to get a few more at bats. Hamilton mentioned in the FWST article that a B game appearance would have allowed him to bat every inning while A game you have to stick to the batting order.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
@LoneStarDugout – Cruz looking good hitting once an inning off Hochevar. Single, reached on error and stole second, then RBI double to opposite gap.
Huh?
I thought he was starting in the B game because Wash hates his guts?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I still think the last roster spot goes to
someone off the board via trade.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
Nolan on the Ticket now
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Norm has been a serious beating this morning.
He’s in Surprise this week and the first segment is devoted to Customer Service Norm bitching about all the extra charges on his car rental bill.
Talk about Ranger baseball, Broadcast Dinosaur.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Yeah
I can understand that sentiment. For me it has gotten to the point that I can’t listen to him unless he is interviewing someone I find interesting and even then it is difficult to get through. I wonder how the Ticket’s focus on gaining a younger demographic will affect Norm.
by GregoryM on Mar 8, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Norm
I don’t think they worry that much about Norm. He’s in a terrible time slot for 2 hours a day. By keeping him on, they keep their blue haired Norm fans happy and who really has time to listen to anything from 10-12 anyway.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
And don't forget the drops
If Norm goes, so do any future Norm drops.
by Anonymous New Guy on Mar 8, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
But he is a terrible interviewer
So even when he has a good guest on he ruins it.
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 8, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Lewis...
I wonder how much of his decision came down to familiarity with the organization? Did he give the Rangers a hometown discount?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
So JD really thinks Cobra Lewis
is going to match what Millwood gave us last year?
Hmmmm.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Nothing to see here
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
More realistically
I bet the organization including JD thought that Harden/Lewis would give you at the very least what Millwood/End of the Rotation starter would produce THIS season.
No comment on Gallyway throwing water on your 'No one else wanted to sign Colbyashi' theory?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
But, but, but
Why is Colbyashi here if he’s so good with a decent contract? Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
I don't know that I said nobody else wanted
to sign Colbyashi.
What I said is that if teams really felt like Lewis was going to pitch 180 IPs with an ERA around 4.00, he either would have cost a helluva lot more than 2 years / $ 5 million or he has a really shitty agent.
IF Lewis does put up 180 IPs with an ERA close to 4.00, that’s a major kill for JD.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Probably an oversimplification on my part
And I don’t feel stalkerish enough to look it up to get the wording right, but I do remember something like that.
On the whole, I guess it is a little surprising that Colby went for a two year deal rather than a one year. I can understand getting some more cash and security guaranteed, but I’d think he could line up a much bigger deal if he puts out this year.
Different strokes for different folks, though.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
How dense are you?
Teams are not stupid. Lewis is not a known quantity. Therefore, signing him is a risk. Teams mitigate that risk by discounting his contract. The more surety, the less risk, the higher contract. Which is why Lackey gets $80 million and Harden gets $6 million. But also, its why Lewis gets $5 million over 2 years, because he might pitch 200 innings with an ERA less than 4, or he might pitch 120 innings with an ERA over 7, you just don’t know. You kinda believe that he’ll have the control that he’s had in Japan, but how hitable will he be? That’s the $10 million question. Also, how much stamina will he have, after all, the Japanese season is shorter.
Plus, this isn’t Roto, I’m sure the fact that Lewis was a Ranger farmhand back in the day was a factor in his being signed here. (maybe he wants to play with MYoung?)
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Hmmmmmmm. Rich Harden?
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Let's get Harden past 150 quality IPs
with half his games at The Temple before we start patting JD on the back for this move.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I can honestly say...
that even if Rich Harden pitches 100 IPs with a 6.00 ERA I’ll be happy that he made the move. I love the gamble.
If Hardent misses the entire season
And comes back to pitch game 1 of the ALDS, I’m patting Daniels on the back for the move, especially if he shuts down the Yankees for 6 innings.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Pick a side and stick with it
You bitch how JD doesn’t make deadline moves. Now you bitch that JD picked up a legit TORP because he’s an injury risk.
All players are injury risks. But healthy and on top of their games Harden >>>> Millwood.
"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
Then he grounded out weakly to second.
Face it
He just likes to complain. “My Porridge is to hot,” “My Porridge is too cold”, “There’s a tangotiger in my bed,” “Someone put an axe in my forehead”
bitch bitch bitch.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
by iblum on Mar 8, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Plus, the argument that
140 IP’ed by Harden plus 40 by Nips produces a better 180 innings than MIlly by himself. I like that argument, even if it involves Nippert starting 6 or 7 games for us.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Harden hasn't had a stud TORP season
since 2004.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Because that 2008 season really sucked
with the whole 2.34 ERA over 25 starts thing there…..
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Did I say 2.34?
I meant to say 2.07
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
A stud TORP
throws more than 148 IPs.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Ideally
But 148 TORP innings is much better than 200 LAIE innings.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
An integral part of being a TORP
is being healthy enough to take the bump 34 times a year and give your team 200 IPs.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
What about 32 starts? Does that eliminate one from TORP consideration?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Harden has never made 32 starts in a major league season.
(hasn’t made more than 26 since 2004).
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Josh Beckett has hit the 33 mark only once, and broken 30 starts only 3 times in his career
Is he a TORP?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
How many starts does Josh Beckett
have since 2004 compared to Harden?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Thank you for not answering the question
My question is: do you consider Josh Beckett a TORP?
We all know Harden has missed parts of seasons due to injury. But you set this random, arbitrary threshold for becoming a TORP so you can argue that Harden is not a TORP. But if that’s the threshold, then Beckett’s not a TORP either.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Yes, Beckett is a TORP.
Part of being a TORP means being healthy enough to soak up a lot of IPs.
Harden falls short in this category.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
But Beckett has never started 34 games
So your 34 GS threshold was meaningless and arbitrary/
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
x
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
If you feel Josh Beckett isn't a TORP
that’s on you, dumbass.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I think Harden is very capable
of having TORP stuff but if he craps out after 120 IPs, he’s not a TORP.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
It's probably semantics.
Any time he starts, he has TORP stuff. But I agree, he needs to give us a full season(or close to) to be truly considered with other TORPs.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
There is a logical voice
in this baseball wilderness.
I will say this…IF Lewis can give us 175 IPs with an ERA of close to 4.00 and Harden gives us a 165+ IPs of his usual stuff….I’m going to need to give JD some serious pats on the back and full credit.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Someone bookmark this
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
What you are saying designates a reliable TORP
Harden is a TORP. His reliability clearly is in question, but not his ability. Just saying.
Your 2009 Snow Monkey Ambassador
It's kinda like having
a bad-ass car that has to sit in the shop all the time.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
A right-handed Sid Fernandez.
Love what he has, just hope to see it enough.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Oh, I very much believe that Beckett is a TORP
But I wasn’t the one setting the random 34 GS threshold, either.
So, is 34 GS the threshold or is it not?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Like I said, ideally you have that
But that doesn’t change the fact that if you get someone who gives you only 148 innings pitching like the TORP does, its still an upgrade over someone who is only a LAIE
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Perhaps this "34 times a year" needs to be amended
to somewhere reasonably close to the neighborhood of 200 IPs (including post-season) for those who love loopholes.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
By "for those who love loopholes" you mean, "people who find the flaws in Josey's ridiculous assertions"
Let’s be clear. You don’t like JD. You think he sucks as a GM. JD signed Harden this offseason. Ergo, Harden must have been a bad signing.
You need to find some way to justify this contention. Therefore, you posit that Harden is not what we believe him to be, a TORP. Because Harden has always been an injury risk, the easy justification is to set an arbitrary “TORP definition”, based on a number of games started which Harden has never met. And thus, because Harden has never met the threshold of games started, he cannot be a TORP.
But because your logic is ridiculous, it manages to eliminate from TORP consideration a guy, Josh Beckett, who is a TORP by most anyone’s estimation. And after being called out for that foolish logic, you speak of “those who love loopholes.”
There’s a difference between a “loophole” and a “gaping hole in logic.”
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Actually, if you count post-season
Beckett did start 34 games in 2007.
The statement was amended, Aggie. Give me somewhere close to 200 IPs if you wanna be considered a TORP.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I appreciate that you amended it
I just think it’s difficult to determine where the TORP threshold lies. “Somewhere close to 200 IP” is probably fair as a general rule (setting a minimum at somewhere in the 175ish range) but I think you could make some exceptions.
For example, Harden threw 148 innings of 211 ERA+ ball in 2008. That’s got to be a TORP season, right?
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
When he was in the game
he was excellent (hence, he has TORP stuff) but the fact that somebody else from the bully has to come in and soak up those innings he doesn’t pitch disqualifies him from being a TORP.
Give me somewhere close to 200 IPs before we grant him the title of TORP.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
regardless
Harden’s stuff is going to give the Rangers a better chance to win games he starts.
I think TORP stuff vs TORP innings is something to consider when doling out a long-term contract; but for the sake of “was Harden a good signing” for the 2010 season… I don’t see how anyone could think otherwise.
Honestly Josey, I think you’re arguing semantics at this point — unless you want to already consider extending Harden for 4 years…
I'm just extremely leery
of liking Harden and projecting what he’s going to do this year.
MYoung says he has some of, if not THE most bad-ass stuff in MLB and I believe him but we’re seriously fucked if we get 100 IPs from Harden and are depending on Dusty Tits for the other 100IPs.
For us to be really good, we Harden to do something he hasn’t done since 2004.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Luckily for us
His career shows that he is much more likely to give us more than 100 IP.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I understand the 100 IP trepidation, but I think 150 IP is a much more likely outcome than a mere 100
I hope to get more than that, closer to 175-200, but I think the signing is still a rousing success if Harden posts 150 innings of his career numbers.
We’ve got the kind of bullpen that can manage innings 7-9 if we let Harden go 5-6 every time out and post his usual 1 R, 7K, 1 BB or whatever.
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
All insults aside
If we get 100 innings of 2.5 ERA from Harden and 100 innings of 4.5 ERA from Nippert (unlikely, considering that Nippert is much less likely to fill in for Harden than Harrison or McCarthy/Holland or even Hurley later in the season) that still gives 200 innings with an ERA of about 3.5 That’s effectively what Millwood gave us. And that’s not even a best case, with the caveot that no one believes that Milsood will do what he did in 2009 again.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Semantics
I’d say Harden is a TORP, but that he may not perform like an ace in any given year. When I say someone is a “top of the rotation pitcher” I’m saying they perform at that level and have that level of stuff. It’s like saying someone is a cleanup hitter.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Harden in 2008 - 4.4 WAR
Millwood’s last 3 seasons:
2007 – 2.7 WAR
2008 – 3.3 WAR
2009 – 2.4 WAR
148 innings of awesome is better than 190 innings of meh.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I think Lewis will outpitch Millwood, handily
in addition to Harden being a legit TORP. With Lewis:
- He pitched phenomenally well for two consecutive seasons in Japan
- the Rangers scouts liked him
- The Twins and A’s were ready to offer him a rotation spot
- if Millwood was a free agent this past winter he doesn’t get much more than Lewis did, I think.
Lewis replaces Millwood, Harden is a huge bonus — even if he only pitches 120-130 innings.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I just think we need to take the same approach with him as the Cubs did
5-6 inning games. Enjoy the 1 run allowed and 8 strikeouts. Have a strong enough bully to finish it out. He can get a lot of wins here, with that pattern.
A key reason CJ needs to be in the pen.
No discussion needed, just an observation on my part. No one go crazy on me. heh
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
If that's our approach
then Scott Feldman needs to finish the 7th inning on a consistent basis. Both Harden and Feldman average 5.9 IP/start. This will be a problem if they go 1-2 in the rotation.
meta-signature
still need
one or two pitchers to give ~200 innings. Even at league average, getting these innings from 1 or 2 starters is imperative for having and a strong bullpen.
There’s a bit of risk involved with the Rangers rotation in finding guys that will eat innings, but I think that all things considered the FO did a good job of mixing obscene talent with guys that should be LAIE at the very least.
And… Harden’s 150 innings (if that’s what we get) spread over 25 starts are going to be 25 games where I’m willing to be the Rangers have a damn good chance of winning. That’s more than could be said about Millwood — and I’m a Millwood fan.
The Harden move was probably one of the best moves by any GM all season. Maybe just below the Lee trade for SEA.
by elvis1isking on Mar 8, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I agree to a point
The Rangers have the kind of depth right now that makes innings eaters a less crucial issue, and besides I think Feldman, Lewis and Hunter are all good bets to pitch 180-200 innings. But when someone goes down they have a few quality options, especially compared to some recent seasons.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Feldman is the best bet to go 200 IP this year.
I do wonder how long of a leash Lewis, Hunter and the #5 SP have if Holland is pitching well in AAA.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
agree
but the whole of it is to get starting pitchers into the 6th and 7th inning on a regular basis.
Usually, it’s the vets that are a better bet to do so since, as one example, they’re more experienced on how to pitch without their best stuff. “Gut it out” so to speak.
So in that regard lining up Holland, Hunter, Harrison, McCarthy, Feliz, etc is a great thing when it comes to talented options to pick up a few starts for a guy on the DL; but those guys can’t really be relied upon or expected to go into the 7th too often (great if/when they do). That in turn taxes the bullpen, and even the best of bullpens can be burned with overuse.
I think Colby Lewis is going to be a big, big key to pitching staff this year. He gives 170+ innings, I’m willing to bet the rest of the staff is solid enough to give the Rangers a pretty good chance this year. If he can’t be consistent then that could spell trouble.
by elvis1isking on Mar 8, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Holland too
If Holland starts the year in the Rotation, he could also pitch 180-200 innings. or turn into Matt Harrison.
Hunter is a guy who will take the ball 36 times a year if given the chance. He won’t give you <3 ERA’s, but he’ll eat innings like he eats Parfaits.
Parfaits have layers. Everyone likes Parfaits.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Never much cared for parfaits
I do like Hunter though
by BEW on Mar 8, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
Parfaits is delicious
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Don't like parfaits?!?!
You’ve obviously never had a peanut buster parfait from DQ.
by Anonymous New Guy on Mar 8, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
So
the last stud TORP for the Rangers is now part owner of the team (and I’m not talking about Tom Hicks)
Last Ranger starter with an ERA under 3 to pitch more than 150 innings. or is his 173 innings in 1991 not enough?
The last Ranger starter with an ERA under 2.5 and more than 200 innings pitched? Jon Matlack’s 270 innings of 2.27 ERA in 1978.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
What is your official stance on Colby Lewis? Is he a Donuts guy or a Cowardly Cattleman guy?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Mar 8, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
This entire off-season
was Donuts all the way.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Nevermind that JD reports to Nolan
So any move made this year is made with Nolan’s blessing.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 8, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
You have to ignore facts to enter into this discussion
Imagine Josey is Socrates- you’re not going to get him to discuss real stuff, he’s going to want to play in his imaginary city, where Nolan was responsible for 2009 and he completely left JD on his own this offseason (until it turns out well, in which case he’ll cite all the reports that JD just started reporting directly to Nolan around Purkegate time).
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Given the ownership situation here and the fact that there
were no promises that Nolan was coming back, JD had to have his castration reversed.
This is his baby all the way.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
In no way...
have I ever or will I ever imagine Josey to be Socrates.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
There was something that looked better about the Rangers to him.
The quote from JD eases my mind a little about what sort of “promise” was made to Lewis about a rotation spot.
“Colby will open the season in the rotation, and then we see where it goes.”
EG's comment about Teagarden's bat getting slower with more games catching
It seems like he’s saying the strain of catching will further impair his hitting. I can see how that would be the case, but it seems like a circuitous way of saying that TT is a back-up with a ceiling of good back-up.
Teagarden so rarely played multiple games in a row
that it’s difficult to imagine his bat slowed down from too much playing time / wearing down.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
This is part of what didn't make sense about EG's comment.
He might not get better, but as FP says it’s hard to get worse and still be in the major leagues.
Hank Blalock on the verge of signing with Rays
MLB.com’s Bill Chastain reports that “the Rays appear to be close to signing Hank Blalock to a minor-league deal.” And manager Joe Maddon all but confirmed the move when asked this morning, saying: “I anticipate that it’s going to get done relatively soon.”
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/hank-blalock-on-the-verge-of-signing-with-rays.html.php
by GregoryM on Mar 8, 2010 11:07 AM CST reply actions
Him and Burrell can fight it out for
biggest washed out, has been.
Would like to to see the infield work out
the way EG proposes here. Wonder why German can’t play short, or why Kins couldn’t move over there and German play 2nd in a pinch. Kins has a good arm right?
Not a big fan
of flipping middle infielders. The turn on the double play is completely backwards. It takes some time to make that work.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Not ideal, true.
Wonder if respect to MY would also be an issue. Any idea why German can’t play short?
For me,
I think that flipping infielders is lots of fun to watch, but you have to be careful or it can lead to some nasty leg injuries.
what if he lands wrong? what if he hits a teamate or a groundskeeper while doing his flip?
And are we talking about back flips or front flips?
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
I wish I could do that.
At this stage in my life, I would rather be able to do that than hit a BP HR at TBIA.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Nolan with Norm
Happy talk about Arizona weather.
Talked about Nolan’s first spring training as a 17 year old with the Mets. Said it took about 7-10 days to get used to surroundings.
First camp was at Homestead, Florida. Talked about differences between now and then (kinda boring). He did get $ 1.50 day per diem to eat on back then.
Talked about ownership negotiations. Their part of the negotiation with Hicks is done. The negotiations now are with the banks and HSG “moreso than anything else.”
Wasn’t sure how new sale is going to be approved, perhaps by conference call.
Financial direction of club after ownership change….says that they have budgeted out for several years and the payroll will grow. Confirmed range of $ 80-85 million as the place they will need to be and that number will help them grow the fan base.
Norm talked about how some of kids are intimidated by him. Nolan said he goes to the clubhouse, eats lunch, talks baseball and tries to make them feel comfortable.
Feliz & Wilson talk…how long will this experiment last? Ryan said they will get chance to accumulate some innings and that if they go back to the bully there won’t be that much of a transition. No big adjustment necessary and no timeline on how long they let them try to become starters. Said they need to put the best 12 pitchers together that help the team the most.
Would Ryan prefer that Feliz & Wilson put them in the position to shoehorn them into the rotation? Ryan said Feliz would have had to master three pitches to do this. Ryan not sure he can do this just yet but door has been left open. His current velocity and command are so good with one pitch that he can be a one inning reliever.
Nolan loves the current depth of the staff because it gives them lots of options.
Scheppers Talk…Norm asked if he is going to be a closer of future but Nolan said they’re looking at him as a starter.
92 Win Talk…pressure on Wash or JD? No, but that they’re on the same page with that number. Feels they’re a better ballclub than the team that won 87 games last year. Said AL West is going to beat up on each other and 92 wins should get it done.
He put the number out there not to put pressure on JD & Wash because he really feels that’s what they’re going to do this year. It’s their year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
On Scheppers
He didn’t exactly waver on that either. He said that they think he can be an innings eater and that they think he’s special.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 8, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I wish Norm
would have asked Nolan for his opinion on Sheppers’ injury history and how that affects his chances of starting long term.
Confirmed per Scheppers.
Nolan said it in a way that “Hell, no he’s not going to the bully. He’s a special pitcher.”
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Is it telling
that Nolan isn’t so adamant about Feliz being a starter? Maybe I’m reading too much into it….
Feel free to shoot this down.
I thought the same thing, there was no conversation per Scheppers
of him spending any time in the bully while there was a lot of talk about the things Feliz needs to do to get in the rotation.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
For the record
I think Feliz is ultimately a shutdown bullpen guy. But to be fair, Feliz is still young and does not have the experience or skins on the wall that Sheppers does (college career + time in the independent league).
Perhaps Feliz simply needs more time to prove himself.
Well, one issue strikes me as a future thing and the other as a team right now kind of thing... but y'all are right, it's interesting.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Mar 8, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
That's what I got out of the little bit I heard
Feliz is better in the bullpen, for the team, for this season.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
It could just be
that he doesn’t think Feliz is quite ready yet and not that he doesn’t still like him as a starter in the future
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
That's how I took it
He said those things about Feliz because he’s not worried about Feliz being a starter right now.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
There was also not so thinly veiled talk about
“doing what’s best for the team” and they may feel they are better with Feliz in the pen.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I can't say I disagree for 2010
and I’m fine with him in the bullpen this year if it helps the team win. He can move to the rotation next year, he’ll still be young.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Having a weapon like Feliz to unleash
on the opponent to shut the game for a couple of innings gives the Rangers a huge advantage because nobody can match that.
Gerald Alexander was like that for 3 months in ’91. In mid-June he had a ton of appearances and was throwing down a 1.17 ERA or somesuch.
Downside to it all is that he was used so much by Bobby V that he ran out of gas and was then hurt (never to be heard from again).
Alexander was not only fun to watch but he was a big time weapon because he shut the game down immediately.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
While I'm bummed he won't a starter from the sounds of it
He’s an incredible asset who you can put on the mound with the bases loaded and 0 outs, with some confidence that he can end the inning without a problem.
My take
is that the Rangers my feel, as has been said elsewhere, that there are only so many years on Scheppers arm. Not necessarily innings, but just time. With Feliz, they have the luxury of easing him in, making sure they do it smoothly and slowly. With Scheppers, it is far more urgent – in 2015 or 2016 he likely won’t be pitching anymore, so get all the innings out of his arm that they can.
Go Rice Owls!
If you think
that Shepp is a ticking time bomb, I think you have to measure his life expectancy in innings, not years, right? How can you say that Shepp will have a 5 year career regardless if he pitches 50 innings a year or 190 innings?
That just struck me as a strange premise.
I don't know about that
innings totals all by themselves don’t scare me. How many pitches, what kind of game situation/leverage, is it better for him to have a routine of pitching every 5 days rather than the up and down schedule of a reliever?
All these mean at least as much to me as innings totals.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
yep
it isn’t at all obvious to me that 70 bullpen innings are easier on the arm than 160 starter innings. And the latter is obviously more valuable to the club.
I worry about high pitch counts in the context of taking healthy arms and putting them into risk territory. I think once a guy is in risk zone, he’s there – the axe can fall at any time – warming up before a game, getting out of bed, picking up a kid, whatever. I think you’re right – a good routine and spacing out appearances is the best solution
Go Rice Owls!
Thanks for the confirmation
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Oh, I hope that doesn't leave a stain...
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
He's done per JC
Sounds like … 2.0 IP, 0 runs, 2 K’s, 3 GO’s, 1 hit allowed and another guy reached on a Lemon error. FB sitting 92-95, CB about 79/80
Great to hear...
You are up to the minute, du.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Mar 8, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Bascik (sp?)
just raving about the Scheppers appearance this morning and that he’s big league ready now.
Fast ball not as good as Feliz but breaking ball is much better.
Bascik agrees with assertion that Scheppers can be a TORP.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
More Scheppers talk
was throwing 94-96 mph at 1000am on a B Field.
With adrenaline of an actual major league game in a park, believes you can add another 3 mph to his stuff.
Just raved about him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I also wish more time would've been spent on Scheppers, but it is nice to hear Ryan has conviction
in his words when talking about Scheppers as a SP.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
Good summary. Thanks, Josey.
Would Ryan prefer that Feliz & Wilson put them in the position to shoehorn them into the rotation? Ryan said Feliz would have had to master three pitches to do this. Ryan not sure he can do this just yet but door has been left open. His current velocity and command are so good with one pitch that he can be a one inning reliever.
I’d love to see Holland and Feliz as regular starters sooner than later, but I’m glad they aren’t rushing this.
Financial direction of club after ownership change….says that they have budgeted out for several years and the payroll will grow. Confirmed range of $ 80-85 million as the place they will need to be and that number will help them grow the fan base.
Good info.
$80-$85M is very aggressive. Hopefully attendance rises sharply and the economy improves in order to sustain this for the longer term.
$80-85 million
and that’s in way out there in that far away land known as Arlington. Just wait until they bulid the new downtown Dallas ballpark. Payroll will probably double…
by Anonymous New Guy on Mar 8, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Probably
wouldn’t increase that dramatically, but you’re right that the club could have supported a much higher payroll.
If we’d only known then what we know now about how The Decider’s biggest choices turn out. :(
You really aren't very good at this posting thing
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I miss The Benefactor
Heh heh heh….Muuuuuussssseerrrrrsssss.
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
Well
If the stock market has, then surely the payroll should. I mean, that’s just a logical deduction, right?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
$80-85 million
I really don’t see that as being that aggressive. This market should be able to support that.
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 8, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
I think that's a good level
if they keep pouring money into the draft and international signings as they have been in recent years.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
OK.
Give me your case for why you believe the market can support that. (I’m not saying it can’t. Just interested in your thinking on that one. Obviously there’s a lot of guesswork involved here for all of us.)
Because
they will have enough money
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
OK.
Have you explained some of it here before that you can link me to?
As I noted below to Josey, the Rangers perennially have one of the lowest FCIs in the league. (The Angels also struggle with what they can charge given their stadium location.)
They also perennially draw one of the lowest local TV ratings in MLB, and that has been true in good and bad years.
And now, they have a large debt load to service, making things even tighter.
(This isn’t a Hicks/Greenberg/Whoever thing. I am a Rangers fan that wants the team to be great. I’m just trying to be realistic about what the club can afford given all the evidence and circumstances.)
Adam Says
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Rangers popularity
The Rangers have had to struggle through a series of bad owners with no concept of market penetration or branding. Brad Corbett anyone? Makes Tom Hicks look like Bill Veek.
The hope is that Chuck Greenberg, who was a wizard at marketing his minor league franchises, can do the same thing for the Rangers. I’m not talking about giveaways and dot races and crap at the ballpark, I’m talking about putting Ranger games on the Television, getting sports casters (and their bosses) to talk about the Rangers and their future, getting fans to be interested enough to watch the games, to buy tickets, to buy Rangers gear. This is the challenge. Much of that would be helped by a playoff appearance and maybe even a championship, but the Stars have shown that sustainable success in the fan base involves more than just winning.
Dallas (and FW) is a Football town. In their conciousness is first Cowboys, then High School Football, and THEN Baseball, Basketball, College Football, Hockey, Soccer, Curling, etc….
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Thanks for a mature and thoughtful post.
The hope is that Chuck Greenberg, who was a wizard at marketing his minor league franchises, can do the same thing for the Rangers. I’m not talking about giveaways and dot races and crap at the ballpark, I’m talking about putting Ranger games on the Television, getting sports casters (and their bosses) to talk about the Rangers and their future, getting fans to be interested enough to watch the games, to buy tickets, to buy Rangers gear. This is the challenge.
Definitely.
But it’s a very big challenge. Yes, the Rangers’ previous owners haven’t been legendary owners, but they also weren’t stupid people either. They were very successful in many other efforts of theirs, just as Greenberg has been. When I see that with any business or project over an extended period, I’m inclined to think that the problems are deeper than just bad leadership.
Much of that would be helped by a playoff appearance and maybe even a championship, but the Stars have shown that sustainable success in the fan base involves more than just winning.
The Stars don’t play in Arlington.
Also, the Stars have had to slash ticket prices substantially to keep filling seats. The average Stars ticket price this year is the lowest in the entire NHL. It’s 6.5% lower now than it was nearly a decade ago when the AAC opened (2001-2002 season).
You're titlting at windmills.
This obsession with a baseball team in Dallas is baffling. You fight with the army you have, not with the army you wish you have.
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
No obsession.
Just pointing out a significant obstacle to the Rangers having top half of MLB payroll levels.
Doesn’t mean the Rangers can’t win in Arlington. Just a significant overhang on payroll growth, which is closely correlated with winning (thus the reason we all want to see it much higher).
No obsession?
All of your posts the past couple of days have referenced this. But there’s no obsession?
"Blalock in the cleanup spot makes gives me agita." - Dustin
Please make him go away,
you’re just the person that can help us.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 8, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
I only briefly mentioned the Stars don’t play in Arlington in the post to which you are responding, because it was relevant to and a problem with the argument.
It was a brief note in addition to the rest of the post which discussed other aspects of the question.
Ha ha
Adam cant respond to every question. He’s too busy breaking up happy homes and making a killing on fantasy baseball.
I cant recall that a one word post has ever made me laugh that much
by BEW on Mar 8, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
No doubt he's very popular here.
He’s very adamant that the Rangers’ payroll should be much higher. Tom Hicks is the devil incarnate largely because it isn’t. And AJM said recently he will bash Greenberg just as much if he doesn’t get the payroll much higher quickly.
AJM’s a very intelligent guy who typically demands rigorous logic and quantifiable data with any argument. Especially concerning topics he has mentioned repeatedly in the past, such as this one. So I am pretty sure he hasn’t arrived at such a strongly held belief without substantial data showing why the Rangers payroll should be, and profitably can be, much higher than it has been recently.
$ 80-85 million is light for this market.
Don’t believe the mjh bullshit about this being a middle range baseball market or whatever the hell he said.
Put a consistent winner out there (92+ wins for three or more seasons) with any influences whatsoever from Hicks and This Thing will see 3 million in attendance.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"with no influences whatsoever from Hicks..."
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I actually agree with this
I think this town would go balls to the wall baseball crazy with a consistently good team on the field.
by Anonymous New Guy on Mar 8, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Exorcising that
piece of shit known as Tom Hicks from This Thing and the mindset of the fans cannot be underrated.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
True
but eliminating Hicks probably means a lot more to folks like us more than it does the casual fan. If the team starts winning, it’s the casual fans that will drive attendance up.
by Anonymous New Guy on Mar 8, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I think there are 5000-7000 fans who love the team / game
that have been staying home because they were tired of the Hicks routine.
That place was getting 31,000-34,000 with some so-so teams before a lot of the fans began to understand that Hicks was never going to change his strategy.
If Chuck & Nolan put a consistent winner out there, actually sign a free agent you need (instead of bragging about trying to sign one) and keep their best players, I think they’re going to eclipse 35,000+ every year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
x
That place was getting 31,000-34,000 with some so-so teams before a lot of the fans began to understand that Hicks was never going to change his strategy.
Probably had more to do with the sharp increase in ticket/concession prices over the last decade.
Probably had more to do
with the sharp increase in the loss column over the last decade.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
by t ball on Mar 8, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ding, ding, ding...
Not sure why someone on here is having so much trouble with this concept.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 8, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
That was nothing new for the Rangers, sadly.
Josey referenced the “so-so” Rangers teams, not the best ones.
Can't just look at attendance though.
The prices of tickets and other items are a huge part of the equation. Remember, we’re trying to determine the revenue level (which drives payroll).
The Rangers’ 2009 FCI was $150.64, 24th in MLB. That was $46.25 (23.5%) lower than the league average. And winning isn’t exactly strongly correlated with FCI. The Braves were 23rd. The Angels (another team in the burbs), 28th.
People in this town
were paying a boatload of money to watch hockey when they knew were getting a winner and had an owner that prioritized winning.
Put a winner out there, demonstrate that you care about winning and this place won’t really give a damn what you’re charging for tickets.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
x
1) The Stars don’t play in Arlington.
2) Even in the Stars’ glory years, the average ticket price, in an arena smaller than the league average and without luxury suites, was right around the league average.
3) In the 2007-2008 season, the Stars came a few games away from the Stanley Cup finals. Even then, they had an attendance around the league average despite an average ticket price 24.3% below the league average.
After this weekend, I would much rather
read Josey than you (we at least know he’s a Rangers fan). You’ve been here for 4 days and haven’t shut up about this. Gawd it’s annoying as shit!!
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 8, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
And no one was turned off of Hockey because of their owner, one Tom Hicks…..
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
I was a season ticket holder for 10 years with the Stars
but gave up the tickets after the strike and it had nothing to do with the players and everything to do with Tom Hicks.
Take a look at the AAC these days and I don’t think I was alone.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Sounds like you aren't much of a hockey fan.
Not surprising that it was something of a fleeting fad in Dallas. Not exactly hockey country.
Yet if they start winning again
it will be full.
Dallas is bandwagon country.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
They were a few games from the Stanley Cup finals
just two seasons ago.
Still, their attendance as a percentage of capacity that year was middle of the NHL (14th) despite having one of the lowest average ticket prices in the league.
low ticket prices AND low attendance
The Rangers have, for several years now, had one of the lower ticket prices in MLB, and they still haven’t generated a strong attendance. Why?
Josey goes too tangential on a lot of things, but he (and a lot of others) are pretty correct in the thought that Hicks has beaten down this fandom to the point of no return. There will be a pretty nice-sized increase in attendance this year, and since we can’t attribute that solely to winning (based on what you say), then I’d say we attribute that to the other big change that happened this offseason.
Now go tell daddy that the Meany PoopieHeads on LSB aren’t the only ones who are glad to see his sorry ass gone from primary ownership/directorship of our franchise, and that he managed to piss off even the general masses to the point that they didn’t want to watch the club either.
It may well take a while for the new ownership to clean up daddy’s mess, but they’ll get it done, and now that Hicks is gone they’ll have quite a bit more revenue with which to do it.
by elvis1isking on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
x
The Rangers have, for several years now, had one of the lower ticket prices in MLB, and they still haven’t generated a strong attendance. Why?
The Angels were one of the best teams in baseball in the 2000s yet had an average FCI at the bottom of the league. Why?
Performance matters for sure. But so does location.
There will be a pretty nice-sized increase in attendance this year
I definitely hope so. Early returns aren’t showing that though.
location
Yeah, the dumbass who moved Arlington from where it was in the late 90’s and early 2000’s to where it is now should be fired.
C’mon… almost 3mil in 96, 97, 98, 99, and 2001.Top 5 in the AL in each of those years. Location can be an issue for some, but it isn’t remotely close to the main issue that Rangers have had in drawing a crowd. History proves that they can draw the fans in — there’s a reason they haven’t done so in the last few years. Arlington isn’t it.
I do wish
they would follow through on their promise of the restaurants and nightlife around the Ballpark.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
I do wish
Everyone would stop responding to this toolshed.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
I
was responding to Elvis is King.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
I know
Just riffing off your post.
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Then bring an interesting topic
to advance the discussion instead of sitting there like a frigid chick in bed who just bitches that her husband doesn’t know how to fuck her.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Greatness
"Dying ain't hard. It’s living in the wake of a thorough public humiliation that’s hard.--JDT217
Texas_Dawg said the same thing once..hmmmm
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
probably because they're the same douchebag
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
me too
but for the most part it’s families that the Rangers have attracted. As a father of two, the restaurants and nightlife don’t mean as much to me as they used to, so being underdeveloped in this area isn’t the reason I don’t go anymore.
The reason I don’t go, and the reason most of my friends don’t go, recently sold controlling interest. We’re all going back this year. It will feel good to go back after a long hiatus. None of my buddies are as hard-core as I about being a Rangers fan, but even they despised Hicks.
That something Hicks either never figured out or just never cared about. Even the general masses can only be BSed for so long…
I agree
For my wife and I, before the game is when we would actually partake in the restaurants etc. Red Hot and Blue is about the only affordable option around there right now besides Chilis.
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Mar 8, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
My mom and family are like that
They’re people who think that Nolan spent 10 years as a Rangers’ pitcher (no knowledge about the team or baseball), and consider spending money on the Rangers as giving money to Hicks and decided enough with it.
These are people who go to a couple of games a year, live in Arlington, know less than nothing about baseball, yet avoid the games BECAUSE of Tom Hicks — whether they are fully justified or not.
I wouldn’t consider them anomalies, but more like the general casual fan that bought a couple of seats here and there in the winning seasons. My mom even went to playoff games in 96 and 98… course, she’d tell you that Nolan helped them get there..
Take 100,000 people in the metroplex like that, at about 4-5 games each, and you have 500,000 fans that stopped caring.
100,000 people is what… 1% of the metroplex? I could be way underestimating there and we could see quite a surge of interest.
x
You’re missing the point.
The Angels are at the top of MLB in attendance lately as well. Yet they have to have one of the lowest FCIs in MLB in order to enable that.
Same thing was going on with the Rangers in the late 90s.
Unit sales are important. The average unit price is extremely important to the equation as well.
don't necessarily disagree
and I’m not missing the point. You and your dad have missed the point for years now.
Hank and Nolan will get it straightened out, and the Rangers will be in much better shape with them at the helm.
I don't see it as being aggressive
They have no large contracts coming off the books. After they extend Hamilton, extend a pitcher and/or sign a FA plus their arb eligible players, I would expect them to be in that range for the 2012 season.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
A big part of this question (and much of the guesswork I alluded to above)
is where the Rangers have been recently concerning profitability.
If they have been making a solid profit, then a ~33% jump in payroll over the next three seasons is not necessarily aggressive.
If they have been breaking even or losing money (as there’s some good evidence to suggest), then that kind of payroll increase is definitely aggressive.
Let’s say they broke even in 2009 and that the capital structure will be the same under the new ownership. Also say they hold ticket prices and other revenue sources at the same level into 2012. That means that in order to still break even in 2012, attendance would have to jump by 33%, an average of 36,763 per game in 2012.
Paralysis by analysis, IMO
1. Win
2. More fans
3. More money
Go Rangers
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
x
1) yep
2) yep
3) yep
Go Rangers
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 8, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Occam's Razor.
That’s the way to go with just about everything Ranger100 says.
"grilled cheese punches like a bitch" -Gdawg
"i feel like k-rod after a save." -by reagan on Jan 23, 2010, that glorious day Hicks was out of our lives.
Any razor will do
his comments just need shredding.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I believe you are
dangerously walking that fine line of being regulated to “fanpostem” with this topic. At least, I hope so.
by Whiskey in my Whiskey on Mar 8, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
I would expect the new ownership group to return to a
more tradition budget model for the Rangers. I recall someone reporting or saying that Hicks was taking the Rangers’ profits to keep HSG afloat or something like that. Also, winning will mean that attendance will go up even with an increase in ticket prices. Higher attendance also means an increase in the other revenue sources.
Vladimir Guererro - 2010 AL MVP
x
I would expect the new ownership group to return to a more tradition budget model for the Rangers.
I initially thought they would be paying down a good chunk of the debt as well. That’s how I also read the initial press reports with rumored deal terms. But now it sounds like they are just rolling the new HSG group debt with new lenders. So they will still be facing large interest payments.
Also, winning will mean that attendance will go up even with an increase in ticket prices. Higher attendance also means an increase in the other revenue sources.
True, but winning isn’t guaranteed, and this economy isn’t going to be very conducive to substantial ticket price hikes.
I hope the wins and higher revenues come. I just think Greenberg’s group is facing a lot heavier headwinds than many fans want to believe.
x
I know people in the Dallas financial community familiar with the terms of the new deal and the operating model Greenberg’s group has pitched to investors. Sounds like Greenberg’s group just rolled the HSG debt with a mix of new lenders and previous HSG lenders.
Anonymous source on the internet I realize, but I have no ties to either side and certainly have nothing against Greenberg or the new owners. All involved seem like good people who want to make the Rangers a winner as far as I can tell, and that’s all I care about. And given the economic environment, it makes sense that Greenberg or any new owner would have had a very difficult time finding many people wanting to sink large amounts of cash into a sports franchise, especially one that has been one of the worst performers in American sports over the past 4 decades. So I certainly don’t fault him for leaving the heavy debt load on the club.
Thanks for the summary.
If the bar for Feliz is command of three pitches, I have to think it’s the same for others. And, if that is the criteria, I think that puts McCarthy in the lead for the 5th spot in a battle with CJ. I’m sure this will draw some laughs, but I really think CJ has command of more of his pitches than any of Harrison, Feliz, Holland.
Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.
BP's Fantasy Starting pitchers
Rangers starters:
Rich Harden – 4 stars
Colby Lewis – 3 stars
Scott Feldman – 2 stars
Derek Holland – 1 star
Tommy Hunter – 1 star
Brandon McCarthy – 1 star
Former Rangers starters:
John Danks – 3 stars
Armando Galarraga – 2 stars
Kevin Millwood – 1 star
Doug Davis, Edinson Volquez, Chris Young, not listed.
Not that I necessarily buy into all of this and Fantasy is not reality, but…..
Harden replacing Millwood looks like a huge, huge upgrade.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
That's my hunch
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
that is a fun way of looking at it
but all I know is this – nothing left me less enthusiastic about a game last year than seeing that Kevin Millwood was pitching. Not that he was bad or that it meant a sure loss (unlike years past when seeing Pedro Astacio or Mark Clark pitching), but just boring. A Millwood start was very predictable. He’d go about two times through the order in 5 innings, giving up maybe 1 or 2 runs, and you think “hey, this isn’t a bad start,” then he’d give up a run in the sixth, and then in the 7th maybe another. Next thing you know, you have a 6 1/3 innings, and the Rangers are down 4-3 or 3-1. And you think; “huh – shouldn’t our ‘ace’ be more assertive”
Go Rice Owls!
It was always a "quality start" though
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
See my post above about Harden's 2008 WAR
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Harden's WAR in 2008 was 4.4
even though he only pitched 148 innings that year. Millwood pitched a lot more innings the last 3 years, but put up WARs only in the 2-3 range. Plus, in fantasy, shiny things like Ks, ERA, and wins matter a lot.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I would think IP matter since it has direct effect on counting stats
and I’m not saying Harden isn’t better than Millwood at those things – wondering if he’s better than someone like danks
I'm thinking, though
that in fantasy ball, as opposed to real life, it’s a bit easier to get another starter if Harden goes down, and still, if Harden pitches even 120-130 innings, he’s worth more than Millwood’s 200 innings.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Except
that for the Rangers, getting another quality starter is a simple matter of booking a flight from OKC.
only one of McCarthy, Holland, or Harrison will make the rotation, and also guys like Feliz, Scheppers, Kiker, Madrigal, etc will be waiting in the wings.
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
I've said that exact thing
in different words elsewhere in this thread today, I agree. But I’d still rate Harden that number of stars in the post that began this discussion even if the Rangers didn’t have that kind of depth, and I was speaking to that.
Millwood is getting older, too, and he’s far from a slam dunk to pitch 180 innings himself. People seem to forget that he only pitched around 170 innings in two consecutive years before last year. He’s not very good, he’s 35, and I think Lewis will be better this year. Harden is a wonderful bonus.
Colby Lewis will out-pitch Millwood this year, book it.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Also, wasn't there some thought that Milly should have sat
during that ineffective stretch late last summer, but that would have stirred up a grievance with the Players’ Association?
They do
But they project Harden and lewis at about 160 or so innings apiece
Harden – 168
Lewis – 161
Feldman – 163
Holland – 131
Hunter – 150
McCarthy – 113
Millwood – 173
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Max Scherzer vs the Braves today - 8 batters faced
0.1 IP, 4 h, 5 ER’s, 3 BB, 0 Ks, 1 HR allowed [Jason Heyward]
My new Sam Militello
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Whoa
Did he recently meet up with Millwood, or what?
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
Interesting THT Article breaking down historic bullpens
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ten-things-i-didnt-know-about-bullpens/
Without looking, guess what the 2003 Tex bullpen is notorious for (most should know this).
Most pitchers used?
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Absolute suckage is my guess
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
"When you have a weapon on your shoulder like he has, you can be cool." RW on Perez
And the little bastard threw it for a swinging strike three in a 3-2 count. He’s blessed. And ballsy.
wasn't that nutjob Urbina on that team?
I’m going with throwing at batters… but just a guess.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
Kevin Goldstein talking about Elvis Andrus on Ben and Skin
Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus joins Ben and Skin to discuss why he’s not sold on the Rangers SS Elvis Andrus.
by GregoryM on Mar 8, 2010 8:44 PM CST reply actions
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