New Evan Grant newsletter up
by Adam J. Morris on Mar 9, 2010 7:22 PM CST
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PrintEvan Grant has the latest edition of his Rangers newsletter up, with the leadoff segment including a shoutout to LSB commenters who have been fretting over the future of Neftali Feliz, and whether he'll be in the pen or the rotation...
Also stuff about Chris Davis v. Justin Smoak, the utility infielder and catcher spots, and how much the Rangers can count on Colby Lewis and Rich Harden, among other things...
Check it out...
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Exactly how I feel about Feliz
I’m completely fine with him in the pen for another year, though it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they ease him into the rotation later this year. I would be very, very surprised if he was in the rotation out of camp. I think he’ll be in the rotation in 2011 no matter what.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
Dude.
The Yankees tried that with Joba and it didn’t work. He’s a good reliever, let him be a reliever. Just like Joba. Don’t fix what ain’t broken. And stuff.
More Yankee talk.
MLB - The Show
I’m a month and a half into the season as a SP and JD pulled off a HORRENDOUS trade.
He traded Feliz for Konerko.
I blame you
For adding to this team’s pitching depth and forcing JD to sell our best young arm for pennies onthe dollar.
Yeah fretting is a little harsh
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 9, 2010 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
We're fretting
Because Ron Washington still has some say in these matters, and because if things proceed according to plan (Starters are relatively healthy) Neftali may spend the entire year in the pen.
I worry about Feliz in the bullpen not because Ron might have a say in the matter long term
But because Ron has developed a penchant for abusing his best relievers.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
I know you have
a pathological hatred of the guy, but there’s no evidence for what you just claimed.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 9, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if one guy would classify as a "penchant"
So Washington used his closer a few nights in a row in tight games. I’d rather overuse your best pitchers and win games than use lesser pitchers in close games and lose.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
let's just for sake of argument
say that you are correct and that Wash “has developed a penchant for abusing his best relievers.” By your logic you also have a GM who abuses the team’s best relievers because JD hired your nemesis and he decided to pick up the option on Wash’s contract. So apparently the Rangers have a GM who is OK with reliever abuse. After all, it was the front office that made CJ pitch with bone spurs in his elbow in 2008. Maybe Ron learned to abuse from JD, so maybe you should hate JD just as much as you hate Wash.
by Randy Richardson on Mar 9, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
I do take issue with JD for hiring and subsiquently allowing Wash to remain as manager.
I’ve said so in the past. However, it’s pretty much the only thing I take issue with JD on (well, aside from him sometimes appearing to have a disregard for building an offense designed to reach base efficiently.)
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Wash only used FX2 that much
because Frankie wanted to pitch in those games. Now maybe its on Wash that he isn’t tough enough to shut down his best reliever regardless of what they say, but its also something that he could have learned from after seeing what happened to Frankie as the season went on.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Sweet
Rangers100 has taken his act on the road to the DMN blogs.
by LoneStarBallUser on Mar 9, 2010 7:50 PM CST reply actions
They can keep him.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
that's what they said once they found out he was hanging over here....
Texas_Dawg is back folks!
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
Yep, I'm convinced at this point.
He’s got the same haughty language/attitude.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Mar 9, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
Texas_Dawg had the best education money could buy ..
a Wall St. type of job or something like that (he said). He was truly a legend in his own mind – until Ben put him down.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
K. Law
Keith Law was on ESPN radio killing Harden. The phrases “favoring his shoulder” and “looks like a back of the rotation starter” jumped out at me. It seemed pretty harsh after limited Cactus League exposure.
by Neftali's arm on Mar 9, 2010 8:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'd be so pissed if that is what ends up happening...
I’m beginning to think KLaw has an agenda against the Rangers.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
yeah it sucks when KLaw's negative Ranger stuff is right
I wish he’d just stick to the positives =/ heh
Nah
He was predisposed to thinking that Harden wasn’t a good signing, though. I think he had him way down on his list of free agents at the start of the offseason.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 4:11 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't Harden say recently
that he is taking it slowly right now and its part of his preseason routine?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Knee-jerking a bit
C.C. got beat up today but I don’t think people are worried about him still being an ace. It’s still really early
The snozberries taste like snozberries!!
by Chrom on Mar 10, 2010 12:33 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
One minor point.
For those concerned that another year of relief work would mean Feliz would forever be locked into the back end of the bullpen (which, by the way, isn’t a terrible thing), let me give you a cautionary tale.
If forever locked means locked without the opportunity to develop as a starter, then yes, that is a terrible thing.
It's not a terrible thing if. ...
Feliz doesn’t have the necessary secondary tools to be a big league starter. The fastball was and is great. The secondary stuff was sketchy last spring, looked a little better by the middle of June and was fine in August. It’s regressed a bit, according to the folks I’ve spoken to.
My point in this column: When he shows he’s got the tools to pitch successfully in the rotation, the Rangers will move him there. For now, still raw in a lot of ways, he’s an asset, just not as a starter. And if he doesn’t develop that secondary stuff to a satisfactory level, he can still be an asset as a back-of-the-bullpen.
And a guy who is a long-term asset to your team no matter how much of his potential he taps into, THAT’S not a terrible thing.
Why should you project a guy that young...
…and with such electric stuff into the bullpen? Again, considering his age and what he did last year in the majors, I don’t see why the plan for him shouldn’t involve him being in the rotation by the end of the year (for 1+ years of major league bullpen time) or at the latest by the start of next year. I think we both agree about his talent, but we diagree on his value as a starter compared to a reliever.
If someone stole $50 from me, finding a $5 bill under the couch cushion would help ease the loss more than not finding $5 would, but I’d still be really pissed about losing the $50.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Mar 10, 2010 8:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Its the same argument we have been having about CJ this winter
If he is going to develop into a top of the rotation starter then yes he is more valuable than a reliever. but what Evan appears to be saying is that if his secondary stuff doesn’t develop then he will essentially be a back of rotation pitcher in terms of performance. A back of rotation pitcher with one amazing pitch but not a TORP. And then the question becomes do you want him as your 4/5 starter or as your shutdown closer where that electric fastball is worth a ton more.
The difference between the two guys is Feliz is young and still has time to develop and refine his secondary stuff. With CJ you pretty much know what you are going to get the question is can he get through an order multiple times while remaining effective at a high level. With Feliz you let him start in the pen and when hes in high leverage situations you let him use his fastball you get you out of jams. but also put him in enough low leverage situations where he can get in game work on his secondary stuff to hopefully accelerate the development and consistency of it. Then next spring hopefully he comes to camp with consistent good secondary offerings and he is one of your best pitchers and you can stick him in the rotation
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
It may not be terrible
but it’s far from otpimal. Feliz developing his game enough to be a top ten starter is significantly more valuable than him being a top closer. It’s not close.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
Everyone seems to think
that the option is between a frontline starter and a bigtime Closer.
What if it’s the Eric Gagne choice of being a crappy starter or a bigtime closer?
I think he needs to get his chances to start as he develops, but it wouldn’t bother me at all if he pitched relief all this year, and even some next year.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
Won't bother me either...
as long as he does get a chance to prove himself as a starter at some point.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
he is getting his chance
Apparently they’re just not happy with the quality if his pitches.
One plus-plus pitch and 2 avg pitches aren’t starter material. The Rangers absolutely should not put him in the rotation if that’s what he’s bringing — they have better starter options than that for 2010. It does make one hell of a reliever though…
And he’ll be able to work on his secondary pitches as the year goes along. He’s young yet… but the Rangers have no business putting Feliz in the rotation just to “give him a chance” if his secondary offerings can’t get better than average ML pitches. He’ll get killed, and he’s of better use elsewhere if that’s the case.
by elvis1isking on Mar 10, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
also
we’re a week+ into this — it’s a snapshot of Feliz’s stuff at this point in time.
He’ll get a chance to work on his secondary pitches during ST, and if they get back to mid-season 2009 form then that’s the time for a legit discussion about starter vs reliever, but at this particular point in time a reliever is his most useful role in 2010.
I’m like most when I hope that it comes time to have that discussion…
by elvis1isking on Mar 10, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
One plus-plus and two average
can easily be starter material. I think the question would be whether those other two, particularly the third, are even average.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
goes back to the question
of a so-so starter or a lights out closer. One plus-plus and 2 avg isn’t TORP material. A pitcher with that kind of stuff is taylor made to anchor a bullpen, not a rotation.
Again, Feliz has more than avg secondary stuff in him — he just hasn’t shown it yet this spring training. Unless and until he does, the bullpen is a far better use for his stuff, and he doesn’t “deserve the chance” to be a starter until he’s more consistent with his better secondary stuff.
by elvis1isking on Mar 10, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with all of that, except that
at some point you have to give him a little time to actually develop the third pitch in games. He isn’t going to do that as a closer.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
true that
My own personal opinion… but I think the Rangers rushed Holland last year and are rushing Feliz as well. I think they’re at serious risk of doing it with Scheppers too…
Understandable given their talent — and especially given that damn FB that Feliz (and Scheppers) already owns. Hard to keep them in the minors and grow at each level when the ML club needs pitching talent so badly.
I’m on the side of everyone who wants to see Feliz as a starter, but could be that given the confluence of events that he ends up as the closer for the next several years.
Feliz is a real asset in the bullpen in 2010. Hard to allow him 2 full years in the minors to grow as a starter when he can contribute so well as a reliever now.
Let’s just all keep our fingers crossed that Feliz finds what he had at mid-season 2009 this spring training so that he can transition to a starter later, cuz I just don’t see any other way he can be an ML starter in 2010.
by elvis1isking on Mar 10, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing that he will get that opportunity ..
to work on those secondary pitches out of the bully during non-pressure situations. In other words during the first half of the season he’ll maybe get equal parts non high pressure situations (to work on that stuff) and equal parts high pressure situations. During the second half once he’s gotten a foothold on his secondary pitches the vast majority of his appearances will be when the game is on the line.
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
Funny, cause that isn't what happend with Santana (to use Grant's example)
Santana was sent to AAA in 2002 to throw nothing but changeups. In his first two years in the bullpen in 2000 and 2001, Santana had not developed a quality changeup.
Happy's a fast learner :)
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
A few innings in spring training is not
getting his chance.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
The reason that that scenario isn't talked about that much
is that it’s a no brainer. If he never shows more than Gagne as a starter, he’ll be a closer. The two debates, I think, are exactly how valuable a great closer and a great starter are in relation to each other, and I get the feeling that many in the media don’t see a lot of difference in the two, and whether you should just give up on him now as a starter and make him a reliever permanently.
This year isn’t so much the issue to me. If they are in a race all season and it’s obvious that he’s most valuable in the pen, fine. But I’m not willing to give in to that long term without giving him every chance to become a top end starter.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Still...
This year isn’t so much the issue to me. If they are in a race all season and it’s obvious that he’s most valuable in the pen, fine.
If Neftali develops as a shut-down reliever, will there ever be a convenient time to move him to AAA, let him stretch out, and then let him work as a starter in the rotation? Feliz could perform so well that he’s “too valuable” to take out of the bullpen. Plus, with Francisco being a FA after this year and Wilson being a FA after next year, I can definitely see some in the organization looking to either Scheppers or Feliz as the closer of the future.
And it is definitely possible, if not probable, that either Scheppers or Feliz will be our closer in 2011/2012. However, the only responsible way to find that out is to use both Scheppers and Feliz as starters and see if they reach their potential. I’d be more than happy if one turned into an ace and the other turned into a closer, just as long as they are both given the opportunity to start.
What is that word we keep hearing from the Lewinskys
when people such as myself start banging on JD for not having enough success in The Show?
Patience.
If Feliz (who supposedly hasn’t been very good this spring) is best served this year as a nuclear weapon in the bully that scares the tar / puts pressure on the opponent to do silly things to try to score early, that’s not a bad thing.
The kid can still be a starter in 2011 and beyond.
Patience!!
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
No problem with that
I’m talking end game, not this season.
by Brett Perryman on Mar 10, 2010 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
This is a double standard
My point in this column: When he shows he’s got the tools to pitch successfully in the rotation, the Rangers will move him there.
You’re saying that Feliz has to prove himself in the bullpen for “another year” before he gets an opportunity to start. What is it about his scouting report that says he needs to develop his secondary stuff in the bullpen (as compared to at AAA where he will actually get to see hitters three times through an order)? Holland, Hunter, and Harrison never had to prove themselves in the major-league bullpen before getting a chance to start.
The only reason why some people suggest “locking” Feliz in the bullpen is because he’s already proven to be a great relief pitcher. It has nothing to do with Feliz’s scouting report or Feliz’s projection as a starter. If Feliz couldn’t throw 100 mph, then there would be no argument that Feliz should either start in the majors or start in AAA.
Every player is unique, but there’s no objective reason for relegating Feliz to the bullpen for “another year” or longer when guys like Hunter and Harrison were given the opportunity to develop as starters in the minors. Feliz is a starting pitching prospect, and he should be treated like a starting pitching prospect, not just a reliever who wants an opportunity to start. There is harm in locking Feliz in the bullpen when he could be developing as a starter because you are wasting an asset. Feliz is too valuable to lock in the bullpen without concern as to whether he eventually gets an opportunity to start.
Feliz is not C.J. Wilson.
by cstorm15 on Mar 10, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
JC Austin says
Hey Diggler! Your word is shit! Shit I say! It’s rather doo-doo.
http://www.lonestarball.com/2010/2/24/1324519/tuesday-a-m-rangers-things#31287915
Q:It has been mentioned that Colby Lewis has a spot in the rotation “guaranteed.” Is there something in his contract that guarantees this or is it just a verbal guarantee from Jon Daniels? What does this guarantee mean if he stinks in April and May? I would love to see him rock and roll, but I’m skeptical since he’s had no MLB success.
JC, Austin
GRANT: There is no "guarantee," but the Rangers signed him two a two-year deal with the idea Lewis would go into the rotation. If he doesn’t get anybody out this spring, the Rangers will reconsider. But the plan is for him to open the season in the rotation. And since the club’s very publicly-stated goal this year is to reach the postseason, if a starter isn’t carrying his weight and there are more attractive options in the minors, the Rangers won’t hesitate to pull the plug. Once the season begins, performance is the bottom line.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
hah
He probably still won’t believe it.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
He'll show up next
in some chat at BP asking the same question.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
I think Durrett has said this exact same thing
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Yeah, it's in the link I gave
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Mar 10, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
I like Evan
Even with some of the flak he gets on here he still has nothing but good things to say about this blog.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
+ 1
If the Rangers don't make the play-offs this year I'm gonna go all Epic Bearded Man on your ass.
And I like y'all
There’s a lot of passion and intelligence on this blog. I check it out every day (always hoping Adam has something nice to say) and feel like I get a real idea for what the fans are thinking. I just hope that those of you who don’t occasionally comment on the DMN blog will do so every once in a while. I know CAPTCHA’s a pain and I know some of the arguments aren’t up to y’all’s standards, but how are we ever going to turn this into a baseball-crazy town if the kids at the head of the class don’t help those in the back a little.
Thanks again for reading and for letting me drop by every once in a while.
by Evan Grant on Mar 9, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love you Mike
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Mar 10, 2010 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
Was that a plea for us to swoop in and help you clean up the DMN comment section Evan?
Heh.
It’s not a reflection on you or your writing, but the comment sections on major news outlets like the DMN are blights upon humanity. I honestly feel sorry for you, having to deal with the dregs of the Dallas sports fans on a daily basis like that.
They’re the type of people who have no desire to actually learn or analyze anything, which is why they loathe LSB (as I’m sure you already know). Us going over to DMN town to try and dispense knowledge would just dissolve into 20 rounds of namecalling and arguing, which is pointless when you’re arguing with people who can’t and won’t recognize your points.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
by LSJ on Mar 9, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Or, you just defeated your own 'straw man' hypothetical, and probably think you're a genius for doing it.
Seems like the umps are shittier than usual everywhere this year. - thedirkatron
There's nothing hypotheical about it.
Point is, DMNers and LSBers don’t mix. It’s not a good idea for us to go over there or vice versa.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
They don't mix? We come by our stupidity naturally, whereas you seem to work hard at it.
Seems like the umps are shittier than usual everywhere this year. - thedirkatron
by jackanape on Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's just pissed
because captcha would prevent him from running up 30,000 comments over there.
Freude, schoener Goetterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken,
Himmlische dein Heiligtum.
by t ball on Mar 9, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes, I'd love the comments to rival LSB in numbers
But also there are a lot of folks here who offer a lot of really good perspective and I’d love for our readers to get some of that from some of you.
What I've never understood...
is how can some DMN commenters be as retarded as they are, and still succeed in getting past captcha?
In other words, we're opposite ends of the Ranger fan spectrum
We’re the hard-core, stat geeky, read-about-baseball-24/7 nuts, and you guys are more casual, workaday, less-concerned-with-the-intellectual-facets-of-the-game fans.
Any fanbase has it’s versions of those two groups, and both generally despise each other passionately.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
In other words, "lonestar Jon" = good, anyone else=bad. I've never heard of that before, fucktard.
Seems like the umps are shittier than usual everywhere this year. - thedirkatron
If you read that post and that's what you got out of it...
Then I rest my case.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Nah, I read all DMN blogs. You just think you're at some higher eschelon. You're no AJM.
You are an entertaining guy sometimes, but 10 gazillion posts doesn’t mean you’re an AJM. See, I’m exercising my anonymous forum muscles too.
Seems like the umps are shittier than usual everywhere this year. - thedirkatron
You're the one with a straw man pal.
This was never about me.
I don’t even know why I’m still talking to you, because you’re either sidestepping the point I’m trying to make (or maybe it’s just whizzing over your head), but I’m making a commentary on the difference in content of the two blogs. It has nothing to do with individuals.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Oh crap. If you're a Tony Stewart fan, I retract any offensive comment. Sorry.
NASCAR trumps all.
Seems like the umps are shittier than usual everywhere this year. - thedirkatron
Yeah.
Plus you would probably encounter a lot more disagreement with the things you post. Much safer for you to just stay here.
Being in disagreement with people over at DMN
is like sticking your dick in the mashed potatoes, it just happens.
Idiots…idiots I tell you.
"Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"
by lost in space on Mar 10, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
They seem pretty similar to me as far as intelligence, education,
and socioeconomic backgrounds go.
Some intelligent, well-educated, and apparently well-accomplished people, surrounded by a whole lot of, well, “other.” Each site requires some digging and weeding out in order to converse intelligently and directly with the minority of regulars capable of intellectual discussion.
So who are these big brains on the DMN site you speak of?
Name names.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Neftali Feliz says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Mar 10, 2010 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
There are a lot of "big brains" on LSB
but most of them are boring as hell.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I'm sure we could reach a mutually beneficial arrangement.
How many doughnuts per comment is it worth to you?
We could trade some of our posters
for some of yours and call it even.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
OT: Do you believe in the Mean Green!
/George Dunham
We need to not always make hard work out of sex- Rick Carlisle.
So excited....
Hope they play in OKC or New Orleans…….. Might make the trip again if they do…….
Interesting
For me, Davis’ defense, the best I’ve seen by a Texas first baseman in 14 years covering the team, makes him a guy I’d think long and hard about giving up on.
This quote, which seemed somewhat hyperbolic since Teixeira is generally considered one of the best in the game, made me look it up. Since EG has been covering the Rangers, presumably since 1996 or 97, the Rangers have had at least SIX players play first who had a first base gold glove on their shelf. Obviously not all won theirs with the Rangers.
This is a hard question.
Go Rice Owls!
the scouts and the numbers disagree with grant
I always thought chris davis looked sharp but it’s not like balls weren’t getting through on the left side of the infield. Davis was pretty good at making picks but Hank wasn’t bad at that either. As much as I hate it, I think I have to disagree with Grant here.
Yeah
I’m not ready to anoint him a defensive savant either. He hasn’t really logged enough big league innings to get a definitive handle on him UZR-wise, but what data we do have doesn’t back up the idea.
The one thing is his favor is he looks like a really good receiver on throws, which UZR can’t account for, but then again that could just be us getting taken in by his occasionally painful looking stretches and fancy leaps.
Even if he truly is an above average receiver, I would agree fairly average as far as the other facets of playing first base go.
Morality you can fake. Fun you either have or you don't.
Yeah...
It’s weird because on the one hand, you have good scouting reports, his 3B history, what our own eyes tell us about his picking skills, and that he was kept up as long as he was despite having one of the worst offensive stretches for a 1B in recent memory.
On the other hand, you have his poor UZR and that article at Fangraphs that looked at how much a good vs bad picking 1B matters in terms of runs (and suggested that it’s not that much).
The truth is, he needs to hit a lot better if he’s going to hold off Smoak for most of the year, regardless of how you grade his defense.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Mar 10, 2010 8:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's possible. . .
. . . but I’ll be fucking astounded if Chris Davis ends up being a better fielder than O’Brien or Teixeira. I’m one of a few people that would probably put O’Brien as the best defensive first baseman ever to not appear in multiple episodes of Seinfeld, and Teixeira is pretty good.
So was Palmeiro, I believe. Whether or not they all deserved their Gold Gloves is very debatable, and I do think Davis has a chance to be a good first baseman, but that seems unlikely.
Pete O'Brien
I got to play a game of catch with him in his front yard one Summer.
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
great story
tell it again
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2010 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
Pete O'Brien
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
pkid...
I saw O’brien play and he was good, maybe very good at 1B but I think Tex & CDavis were better.
Nothing more to base it on but the eyeball test.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
And actually,
Jim Spencer, who played here, maybe ’74-76, rates with some of the better defensive 1B the Rangers have had.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Sadly
I’m probably one of the few old enough here to actually have watched O’Brien play – I was a devastated ten year old when I heard he was traded for Julio Franco (shows what I knew then) – I remember he was good, but don’t remember him being almost Keith Hernandez level.
What makes you say that he was so great?
Go Rice Owls!
No one should be talked about as almost Hernandez level.
Multiple PBP derived stats would suggest he actually probably should have played a more difficult position.
I say that because of a handful of researchers I respect — statistical and otherwise — who have presented him either outright as the second best or close. Statistically, I know Matt Sounder’s defensive metrics have him as the second greatest (well behind Hernandez) and I’m pretty sure Sean Smith’s TotalZone has the same.
A lot of my historical opinions have been fueled by the great discussions that use to go on at Baseball Fever before it went away. Smart people there. A lot of people who spend their time pouring through scouting reports and a lot of people who spend their time pouring through data. I actually learned who Tom Tango and Sky Kalkman were by talking to them on a message board before I realized they were pretty well known and published sabermetricians.
tl;dr: Baseball Fever research and discussion.
Do some research on the great Wes Parker.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
I just have a hard time giving defense at 1B that much credit
To quote Cahill: Pffffffffffttttttttttt
I’d much rather have a good hitter at 1B than a gold glove guy who can’t get on base to save his life.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 10, 2010 8:40 AM CST up reply actions
Yep
honestly, Chris isn’t even all that good. He looked good because Andrus had such crappy throws early on, but as he settled down, Davis wasn’t making quite so many spectacular plays.
"I don't condone steroids or any other type of growth hormones or anything else, but I could care less, and, for the most part, I don't think the fans give a (bleep). The people that care about it are the people that probably don't like baseball," - Jim Leyland
So if we would have had a league average defensive 1B
in 2009, how many runs below/above 740 would we have given up?
Ranger 1B in 2009 had 28/84 (HR/RBI) with an OPS of .684. The league average for AL 1B was 29/100 with an .830 OPS. If we would have had an AL average offensive 1B, how many runs above 774 would we have scored?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"Ranger players, especially veterans, weren’t surprised that Daniels couldn’t find a deal"
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
that OPS would have been higher
if Blalock hadn’t been pulling it down.
Davis .689, Blalock .669
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
i agree with
the comment grant. i cant remember ever being more confident in a 1st basemans defense on any team
shouldv'e just flagged it, instead of going through the trouble of actually posting "minus" ....????
Flagging on this site does nothing. The guy who runs LSB isn't very good at this portion of the job.
So..I just thought I publicly voice how I’m against it instead, heh. Not that I’m for ENDLESS’ opinion, just against putting people down the way you did :)
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