Evan Grant newsletter is up
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 23, 2010 10:18 AM CDT
Email
PrintEvan Grant has a new newsletter up (actually, it went up earlier in the week, but I didn't find it until now), that covers a variety of issues, including some Marcus Lemon love...
However, the particular reader comment in there that caught my eye and that I wanted to speak to is this:
Will manager Ron Washington and hitting instructor Clint Hurdle make it until May at their current positions? It also appears Rudy Jaramillo was not the problem with the offense.
I've seen this and heard this a lot the first few weeks of the season, and it is, I think, the very definition of a strawman argument.
I don't think anyone said that Rudy Jaramillo was the reason the Rangers' offense struggled last year. People -- including me -- did suggest that it may be that Jaramillo might not be the best fit for what the Rangers were looking for, particularly given the particular weaknesses of this team. But I don't think anyone, other than possibly a handful of nuts, ever said that Rudy Jaramillo was the problem.
And I wish people would quit throwing out this hackneyed, oh-so-clever comment about the hitting coach situation.
71 comments
|
recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think more than one person on this blog
in the offseason pointed to Hurdle as a reason to expect a better offense.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I think most people here...
…pretty much agreed that Hurdle would be the recipient of a regression to the mean by the shittastic 2009 offense. Not that he would be the cause of a resurgence, but that he would reap the benefit.
by FuturePants on Apr 23, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Texas scored more or less exactly the mean RPG for the AL last year.
I think people were hoping the offense wasn’t what it was, or at least wouldn’t be what it was. So far, it seems like it is.
Ain’t much Hurdle can do about that.
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
…they ended up being Top 10 in runs scored, but that’s not run adjusted.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Apr 23, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
They were 7th in the AL in “Batting” value according to Fangraphs; I believe that value is derived from wRAA and is park-adjusted…? (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong about that.)
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Huh.
Thanks for point that out ~ I’ll fix it.
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it was more in terms of Ks, OBP, etc.
Specifically hitters’ stats, not necessarily runs scored, even if it pretty much directly flows from the same.
by FuturePants on Apr 23, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I believed.
Not that the offense was unlucky last year, but that they weren’t as bad as they looked.
Rudy may have been a problem, but not the (only) problem.
If someone thought Rudy was the only thing holding the offense back last year, the results so far this year would make them reconsider. But people/articles saying Rudy wasn’t the only problem aren’t advancing some startling new viewpoint; I think the more interesting question is if he/his approach was part of the problem. But that’s a question for which I would want to see at least a full season’s worth of results before making up my mind, so I don’t think there is much to discuss about it so far. Pulling out the “the offense still sucks, therefore Rudy was just fine” card is much easier, but I don’t like it anymore than AJM.
(Heck, not even that much has been proven, really: maybe Rudy and Hurdle are both problems.)
I think Dirkatron just found his future wife...
We're like soccer hooligans... except, like the Rangers, we can’t even get that right. We beat each other up instead of the other side. - AJM
I remember lots of people saying that getting Rudy out and replacing him with someone else
Should directly translate into higher OBP’s and working the count more.
I think there's a difference between...
…saying that a different hitting coach with a different approach should help, and saying that Jaramillo is the cause of the team’s problems.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 23, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
There were certainly fans who made the latter argument.
And I guess I understand why Grant feels he needs to engage them.
But if he’s going to do that, it seems like it’d be only fair to point out that the Cubs are averaging 0.4 fewer RPG thus far in 2010, as compared to 2009…
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
(And, yes, both arguments are silly, 15-16 games into the season.)
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, damn.
I just read the newsletter, and that wasn’t a comment Grant made. Apologies, Evan.
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I really do think
there were some, not you, who thought Rudy was forcing folks to swing at balls, thus lowering OBP.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I think he needs to be given a year or so to work with the hitters.
Just a few months isn’t fair. It doesn’t make sense to blame Hurdle for anything that’s going on right now.
And even after a year, there's only so much Hurdle can be expected to accomplish
with players who’ve taken a certain approach to batting over the course of their professional careers. Hurdle’s never going to turn Guerrero into a guy with a huge amount of plate discipline, or turn Chris Davis into a low-strikeout batter with a ton of walks. The impact on the younger players might be greater, but even then…
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I don’t know how much he’ll be able to do. I suppose he’d do better if he had some input into the types of players they acquired through draft, trade, and free agency. He needs time and the right ingredients. That’s not saying I think he’s a good hitting coach. I have no idea one way or the other. There’s just no way to evaluate him right now.
by Black Francis on Apr 23, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't the real reason money?
Rudy wanted more than the Rangers were willing to pay. Yes, the approach of this team had grown stale. But, Rudy went and got 800,000 per year from Chicago and the Rangers just weren’t going to match that kind of money in a cost-cutting year.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
That is my guess.
I think there were a lot of offseason office personnel cuts, and I think paying a hitting coach that much money just didn’t make financial sense, especially given the year the hitters had last year. Maybe if the hitters carried the club like they did in ’08 you could justify it, but I doubt MLB wanted to pay for him.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
i think there was definately
a philisophical difference as well. Wash was trying to preach patience while rudy taught aggressiveness.
here's the thing with patience/aggressiveness I never understood
If you see a good pitch to hit early in the count, are you not supposed to swing if you are taught patience?
that can't be true, can it?
I guess I understand that it’s not so black and white. So if you see a borderline pitch, you’re not supposed to swing early in the count. But did Rudy really preach something different?
If you get a meat pitch that you're ready to hit, swing for crying out loud
If it’s a pitch you didn’t see coming, or is border-line, take it.
The problem with just saying “Patience” is there are a lot of hitters who aren’t contact hitters. If they put themselves in 2-strike situations without having swung, they are not going to succeed too often.
Chris Davis’s problem has been his inability to recognize strikes/balls. Hamilton, too. Bat speed can be the main problem. Without a bat speed, you have to guess before the pitch is thrown.
I guess what I'm saying is
I doubt Hurdle or Jaramillo disagree with your first two sentences. Those just seem beyond obvious. I would really like to know how Hurdle and Jaramillo’s approaches actually differ because I doubt they do in an appreciable, or at least obvious, way.
Yeah, my post was more for Steve
I’d be interested in hearing Hurdle talk about his hitting philosophy, too.
Ben & Skin did an interview
where he talked about just such a thing.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4844332/camp-chat-hitting-coach-clint-hurdle
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
CD's approach
almost seemed eratic lately to me. it looked like some AB’s he had a plan and was waiting for that pitch he could drive. other AB’s he went up there ready to hack at anything he thought he could reach. i still don’t think he has a slow bat, but there may be something going on when how he gets his hands moving – a timing thing.
well
i use “patience” and “aggressiveness” rather loosely. not trying to put too fine a point it. but i think if you dig around for quotes about the approach rudy teaches, especially last year during the struggles, i don’t think the word patience is very prominent.
Depends on if you're someone who can actually hit it.
Chipper Jones swings at first pitches because he can hit them. Kevin Youkilis doesn’t unless it’s absolutely where he wants it. Otherwise, he’ll just take and look for it again until he’s either been walked or has to start fouling.
x
seems like splitting hairs.
AJM do what he do.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 23, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The third person tautology?
Impressive, I find that.
Random funny statement from someone on LSB here.
i kind of agree with this sentiment
I don’t know what point you are trying to make, Adam.
Seems like the camps are:
1) you think hitting coaches matter and that Hurdle is a better one for the Rangers than Jaramillo OR
2) you don’t think hitting coaches matter.
This “cause of the problem” as opposed to “good fit” stuff seems to be saying the same thing. You are clearly in camp 1 and as such, you should expect to see some improvement in the offense. Maybe not immediately, or even this year, but at some point.
The difference between sole and contributing cause is an important one.
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
is that the distinction?
Because I guess some people might have thought he was the sole cause but I doubt very many. I don’t even think the person who asked the question thought so. But even if that is the case, if the offense doesn’t improve, then the point is wrong, correct?
I don't know what Jason was thinking ~ "the" problem seems to suggest sole, but maybe not.
As for the offense improving: yes, if Jaramillo was contributing to the offense’s problems, then all things being equal, you’d expect to see the offense improve under a hitting coach who isn’t contributing to the offense’s problems.
Problem is, all things are very rarely equal…
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
come on
this year’s offense is probably equal if not better than last year’s offense. if you think hurdle is better than jaramillo, you would expect the offense to improve. I’m pretty sure it will but not in any way that can be meaningfully attributed to patience as opposed to aggressiveness.
I think this will end up proving that hitting instructor approaches are overblown and that the true value of a hitting instructor is physically showing someone how to hit (like techniques, toe taps, hip rotations, etc.)
Certainly right now, this offense is missing a major piece in Kinsler.
So if the comparison’s being done right now, I disagree with your first sentence.
Over the course of a year, I’d guess the overall talent level is equal, possibly a bit better. I wouldn’t attribute much if any improved performance to Hurdle, though, because I believe a year is a very short time for a hitting coach to have an effect on a player’s approach. Maybe someone like Andrus could benefit; could be we’re seeing that. Maybe someone like Hamilton, who needs a helping hand, could benefit, and maybe Hurdle could communicate better with him than Jaramillo. I don’t know.
I certainly don’t think the hitting coach makes a big difference, but in a tight race, even little difference’s count.
by Josh Garoon on Apr 23, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
x
Because I guess some people might have thought he was the sole cause but I doubt very many.
That is what I said. That’s why I said it was a strawman argument.
by Adam J. Morris on Apr 23, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
fair enough
but like i said above, i don’t even think that is the straw man being posited by the newsletter guy. but I guess it is how you interpret his use of the word “the”
I'm already getting tired of this comment
It must be the MILLIONTH time I’ve heard it in the last 12 hours.
I guess this thread
is the place where I should do my annual retelling of the story of the time that BaD radio went after Rudy saying he was the problem for not enough runs. They went on and on. That night the Rangers played a doubleheader and scored 30 runs including over 20 in one of the games ( first one iirc ). Everytime I hear them try to talk about baseball I remember that and giggle like a little girl.
Heh
MW2 has already done that. Awesome fucking level btw
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
by TxStCa on Apr 23, 2010 11:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sounds like an interesting level.
This clown puts posters like that up all the time though and it really pisses me off. It’s actually been going on for a very long time, but the fact that I heard about this one while driving to school listen to a Dallas radio station about my little home town just enrages me even further. Not to mention he isn’t even apart of the community..he lives in fn Woodway and drives down here to put that shit up in his vacant building.
pitches per plate appearence
i guess pitches per plate appearence is as good a stat as any to see how patient or aggressive a player is.
player/this year/last year
andrus / 4.2 / 3.79
cruz / 4.16 / 3.89
hammy / 3.77/ 3.67
borbon / 3.68/3.81
davis / 3.53 /3.90
young / 3.31 / 3.7
teagarden / 4.19 / 4.21
murphy / 4.05 / 4.16
arias / 4.07 / 3.45 (2008 stats)
as a team the rangers see 3.73 P/PA
last year it was 3.83
some of that may have been brought up by andruw jones and his 3.99 P/PA, but byrd was here to and he had 3.59 P/PA.
last year kinsler saw 3.83, the team average.
back to team p/pa
rangers rank 12th out of 14 in AL in P/PA
red socks are 1st with 4.06 and o’s are last with 3.66
AL average is at about 3.88
P/PA doesn’t appear have any connection at all to batting average, obp, ops strikeouts, walks, or anything else. you probably just get to relievers quicker.
just for fun, rudy is with the cubs now. their p/pa is 3.95. last season it was 3.82.
i guess it’s just frustrating seeing guys get out on 3 or fewer pitches.
i guess pitches per plate appearence is as good a stat as any to see how patient or aggressive a player is
You guessed wrong. Too many variables in P/PA. Someone who Ks alot will have a high P/PA but not be a patient hitter. See Chris Davis.
Thank you Houston for drafting Jason Castro.
It is interesting that...
The four who have improved their P/PA (EA, Cruz, Hamilton, Arias) have been doing better this year, while the three who’s P/PA are down have done worse (Young, Borbon, Davis).
But I’m not sure if that’s a cause or an effect. Do better hitters see more pitches because pitchers are pitching to them more carefully? Or are they better hitters because they see more pitches.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Apr 23, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
because b follows a doesn't mean a cause b
better hitters are probably better because they see a good pitch and react accordingly knowing that another good one may not come along?
but then you get so good, pitchers don’t give you good pitches to hit….
i dunno. one causes another.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Lone Star Ball
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
