Sounds like Toronto would be a good home for Chris Davis
The Blue Jays have hit a lot of HR thru 25% of the season. So Yahoo! Sports did a feature on their hitting coach Dwayne Murphy. Among the moronic statements in the story, this one stood out:
"I think on-base percentage is an overrated stat," Murphy said flatly. "Those guys getting on base, most of them aren’t getting them in. Give me somebody who drives them in after that. I need guys who can drive the ball."
How did Wash not hire this guy?
about 2 years ago
Hard8
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whoa
don’t give Wash any ideas
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
Murphy's one of my all-time faves.
Ironically, he was top 10 in walks 5 times.
And a superb defender.
He was a guy that traditional stats didn’t show his true value. So kinda weird coming from him.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
The fact that you can be this dumb and still be a major league hitting coach scares me
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
the fact that
you take these quotes so personally is funny, he obviously knows the value of a walk or he wouldn’t have had a career .350+ obp and averaged 70+ walks a season as a pro
by blueballlefty on May 27, 2010 3:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Joe Morgan had a 16.5 career BB%
And Joe Morgan is a fucking dolt.
I don’t believe that doing something as a player necessarily makes you recognize it’s value, particularly not with the “old school” minded.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
Perhaps an even better example would be mister "clog up the bases" himself, Dusty Baker
Dusty had a career. 9.5 BB% (not super-duper great, but still slightly above average) and a 10+ BB% each of the last 4 seasons in his career.
And Dusty thinks you’re clogging up the bases for speedier guys if you take a walk.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
All true
I will never understand the “OBP is overrated” argument.
It’s not hard to comprehend.
OBP = NOT MAKING OUTS
Not making outs = Lots of runs scored
Lots of runs scored = much better chance of winning
If you can’t figure that out, you have no business coaching baseball at any level.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete."
-- Chuck Morgan
Yeah, but according to guys like Dwayne Murphy, Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver, etc.......
…what you REALLY need is a good RBI man.
Mark Grace, too. I think he tried to shame Justin Smoak into feeling guilty during the saturday game in Seattle a few weeks ago. Smoak had the audacity to take a 3rd inning walk with a man on 3rd base and only one out. Grace claimed that Smoak needed to swing at the 3-0 pitch (called strike) to drive that run in. Smoak walked on the next pitch but Grace was still railing on Smoak for not doing his job.
"Don't confuse the outcome that a decision produces with the intelligence that went into making that decision."--Tony LaRussa
No shit?
Man, I’m glad I wasn’t watching that broadcast.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
I understand the importance of obp
but when there is a runner on 3 less than 2 outs and you need the run, I could see the argument Grace was making. I mean if the lineup was Smoak, Kins, Vlad then yeah be patient, but when the ultimate black holes of Treanor and Borbon are coming up next I think if Smoak gets a good 3-0 pitch to drive he should definitely consider swinging at it in that situation
by blueballlefty on May 27, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
These guysa are also in the major leagues
And they realize that if you expect to score a ton of runs via the walk you are not going to win games. You need guys to drive the ball to score those guys that do get on base. Sure if a pitcher is pitching around you or doesn’t give you anything to hit then let him walk you but as a batter if you get a pitch to hit and drive then you need to do that.
Its like when people say “Lets be patient and get this guys pitch count up to get to their bullpen early”. If we hit the ball and score a bunch of runs then they are going to go to the pen regardless of pitch count. Major league pitchers simply don’t walk a ton of guys. Patience is good if you use it to get a pitch you can drive and then do something with that pitch. But watching a fastball go right down the middle simply to get deeper into a count is stupid IMO and if you walk because of that I don’t necessarily consider that a great success
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
But OBP isn't just walks
And I think that’s where people get confused. OBP isn’t a measure of how much you walk- that’s just one component of it. You can have a high OBP by walking a ton, like Adam Dunn, or by being a great contact hitter, like Ichiro or Vlad. How you get there isn’t the issue- not making outs is.
I agree- if you get a pitch you can drive, definitely swing. But you’re still better off getting a hit with that ball you drive than making an out. If you have a runner on third, a double scores him just as easily as a sac fly, without getting you any closer to your inning being over. And that double improves your OBP just as much as a walk would.
Again, why a major-league hitting coach can’t grasp this concept, or understand that OBP is just more than walks, is a pretty serious indicator that he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete."
-- Chuck Morgan
I HATE this fallacy.
Why must a patient hitter either make a walk or make an out? Does trying to have a higher OBP mean that you only take walks, that they all look like Justin Smoak?
NO!
It means that they are more patient. It’s a much more complex set of outcomes than “Walk” and “Out”. Or even Walk, Out, Hit. You can see it in Elvis this year. He has more patience, which has resulted in a higher walk rate. But he also has a higher LD% because he’s trying to only hit pitches that are good to hit.
And that’s just one example. Walks and patience not only give you more bases on balls, they also give you a better chance to make a hit.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on May 27, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
But we very rarely see Elvis take a good pitch. he may foul it off but generally when he gets a good pitch to hit he is swinging which is what I want my players to do no matter if its the first pitch of an at bat or the 7th pitch. The difference is he doesn’t swing at alot of crap.
One of my biggest complaints recently was the praise Salty was getting after his 2008 season when he put up a .352 OBP with only a .253 BA. What I saw was a guy who would watch meatballs go right over the heart of the plate and not move the bat off his shoulder and then battle back to draw a walk and get praised when the scouting reports on him were he is a offensive catcher who should hit for power. Pitchers were just lobbing first pitches right over the plate and getting ahead 0-1 because Salty would basically give up as soon as the pitcher went into his motion.
If a guy swings at a first pitch in the dirt and hits a little dribbler back to the pitcher I will be right there in line with everyone else bitching and moaning about patience. But if a guy gets a belt high fastball on the first pitch or 2-0 and pops it up or makes an out I am ok with that. It sucks from a team standpoint but to act like taking that pitch would have led to any better of one to hit or a walk is crazy.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
x
Joe Morgan is a fucking dolt.
No, he’s really not.
I don’t get why so many people feel qualified to make such extreme judgments on the intelligence of people they’ve never met.
by Adam J. Morris on May 27, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, to Jon, everyone is stupid and sucks all the time.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
Well, there's kind of a website that sort of chronicles his baseball idiocy
It’s not like I just pulled that assessment out of my ass.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
I think that's true of everyone
But I don’t see what it has to do with Joe Morgan’s extensive track record of having a low baseball IQ.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
Well
First of all, he was considered to be one of the smartest players in the game when he played, in terms of baseball IQ.
Bill James once wrote about how Morgan never got victimized by a pitchout, despite how often he ran, because he could see it coming. There were clues…the pitcher wouldn’t look over to first as long, or the catcher would stare straight at Morgan before calling the pitch, various things.
Morgan, as a player, was never someone who would be described as “having a low baseball IQ.” Quite the opposite.
Now, if you want to say as an announcer, as a commentator, he takes positions that we think are dumb and seems to take pride in resisting statistical analysis and the like, that’s fine.
But that’s a far cry from calling him “a fucking dolt” or saying he has a low baseball IQ.
by Adam J. Morris on May 27, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's exactly the point I was making with him
I wasn’t calling Joe Morgan the ballplayer dumb, in fact I was pointing out that while he may have played extremely smart, that seemingly didn’t transfer over into the distributing know-how part of his brain.
In other words, I don’t buy the “they played the game so they know how to analyze it” angle.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
That's not what you said, though
You called him “a fucking dolt” and said he has a low baseball IQ.
If you mean that he’s not good at analyzing baseball, then you need to be more specific.
by Adam J. Morris on May 27, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I think that's just picking nits, given the context and the discussion we where having.
"I think it's funny because everybody wants Ozzie Smith range," Young said. "I want people to show me a guy that has turbo range like that."
by LSJ on May 27, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you
Just because we make fun of Wash’s ‘aww, shucks’ mannerisms and qualities as a manager doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great defensive coach for the A’s (or for the Rangers). He can be an expert in a previous field, but when we call him an idiot, we’re referring to the actions/philosophies in his current role.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on May 27, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you should say...
…he’s managing like an idiot, or his managing is idiotic, not that he’s an idiot.
by Adam J. Morris on May 27, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
to be fair
I think whenever someone says “X is an idiot,” it is completely implied that the statement refers to whatever context one is observing X in.
In Wash’s case, it is his managing. In Morgan’s case, it is his announcing. It is so blatantly obvious that none of us know these people personally that no one would reasonably extrapolate such statements to their overall intellect.
Go Rice Owls!
Not really
There’s a big difference between saying someone is dumb and saying what they are saying or doing is dumb.
by Adam J. Morris on May 27, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't tell my wife.
She thinks me telling her that she is being selfish means that she is a selfish person by nature.
I don’t know how many times we’ve had the argument that you can be X at one point without being X all the time.
"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton
I'm with you here, too.
I think this is where generational gaps show up. I don’t know Joe Morgan the ballplayer. I only know Joe Morgan the announcer/“analyst”. Since Jon’s younger than me, I seriously doubt he even thought about Joe Morgan outside of that context.
We’ve made these sorts of connections before, when talking about players who’ve aged badly (see Griffey for a lot of younger M’s fans), and I don’t think it’s so outrageous to make that connection here, either.
Joe Morgan
is THE smartest baseball player I’ve ever seen in my life.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
by Josey Wales on May 27, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Joe Morgan
Worst broadcaster of all-time. He gives me tired head in the worst way.
"There are two girls that can take a pounding!" Tom Grieve
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