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A lot of sports fans are stupid when it comes to economics

So I'm reading the comments to this post from Richard Justice, which deals with Andre Johnson wanting the Houston Texans to renegotiate his current contract.

And the usual brainiacs are out in force.  Some examples:

AJ is a big cry baby who doesn't want to honor his contract because someone got one bigger than his..If you take in to account his signing bonus+his season pay he's making $8mill a season. Cry ME A River. I hope he's aware that during this Recession a lot of people are making it by with lower wages, loss of jobs, and possible of loss of their homes. The special treatment he gets is because the Texans are a failing organization with no backbone that has to cater to these no class athletes. It's said, but if AJ didn't cry to his Uncle Agent and then just honored his contract (and maybe have hired a better agent early on) then I wouldn't have a problem. Till then he's just another selfish cry baby athlete that I'll never cheer for....

Posted by: Greg Jones at May 28, 2010 11:04 AM

And

If you don't honor your current contract, how can you expect someone like that to honor a new one?
They have no honor.

Richard Justice, who generally is pretty good when he's not acting as the UT p.r. department or sucking up to Bud Selig, made the correct response to this one:

[If Andre played poorly, the Texans would cut him in a heatbeat and not have to pay him a cent. Would you be preaching, ''Honor your contract then?'' Of course, you wouldn't. You'd be telling me it was business.--Richard]

That's the reason why you have holdouts and such in the NFL, and not MLB or the NBA, vis-a-vis renegotiating contracts...in MLB and the NBA, your money is guaranteed.  In the NFL, it isn't. 

Anyway...this was the comment that prompted me to post:

they have already torn up one contract. he made over 20 million the last two years including his signing bonus.
he will get away with this extorsion because everybody loves him. but this is why so many people can no longer afford to go to a game.
somebody will get less, because he gets more. mcnair will raise prices and more people will get squeezed out.
what happens when the IRS takes away the business deductions for tickets and entertainment for customers. who is going to buy the tickets then.
may sound stupid, but this won't last forever.

Posted by: justbob at May 28, 2010 12:42 PM

I don't understand why it is so hard for people to grasp something so simple.  Even writers and columnists are guilty of this, blaming the athletes for ticket prices being so high.

Guess what, folks...athletes make lots of money because the owners are able to charge high ticket prices.  Revenues drive player salaries, not the other way around.

It is embarrassing to read people try to argue that if it weren't for the greedy players, ticket prices would be reasonable, a family of four could have great seats and drink beer and have enough money to join JeffWooWoo after the game for tailgating and enthuastic strippers, and the world would be gumdrops and rainbows if it weren't for the greedy players.

Here's the reality...prices are going to be the same regardless of how much money the athletes make.  It doesn't matter if the NFL caps salaries at $100 million or $10 million, it won't change the cost of advertising, the cost of parking, the cost of tickets, or anything else.

When players want more money and owners don't want to pay them, it is millionaires fighting with billionaires over who is going to get the money.  That's all.

And that's even more true in the NFL, where there's a salary cap, which means that the players are getting a fixed slice of the pie anyway, and it is just a matter of how that is allocated.

So please, justbob and similar minded people, stop embarrassing sports fans by displaying your ignorance of basic economics.

Quit acting like player salaries are what make going to games expensive.

Going to games is expensive because owners charge what people are willing to pay.

Comment 57 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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If you really wanted

to make tickets affordable, you wouldn’t allow sports tickets to be deductible as entertainment expenses.

"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

by DJCahill on May 28, 2010 3:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Someone else caught the irony of that post! Yay!

It wouldn’t do the job entirely, but it would certainly help.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

I’m sitting here, going…wait, what??

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on May 28, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could have stopped at...

“A lot of sports fans are stupid”

"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." Chuck Morgan 5/13/10

by GhostofSteveFoucault on May 28, 2010 3:11 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Amen, Adam

The one thing I’ve never been able to understand when it comes to sports economics is how the general public seemingly always takes ownership’s side over the players.

To paraphrase a Chris Rock bit I heard once- “Shaq is rich. The dude who signs his checks is WEALTHY. A lot of people are rich. But the people who make the important decisions in this world are wealthy.”

"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete."

-- Chuck Morgan

by RCCook on May 28, 2010 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think it's hard to figure out..

Owners are wealthy businessmen – people are used to that and have been forever. Even serfs understood that.

But the average fan can’t grasp that people get paid ungodly sums of money “to play a game that they would play for free”. It doesn’t make economic sense, but I think that’s why it happens that way.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on May 28, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely.

People see the huge amounts that athletes/actors/other entertainers get paid and don’t realize that they get paid that because someone thought they were worth it.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I don't understand

is why folks get up in Arms about what ARod makes, but don’t care about what Tom Cruise makes.

"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays

by DJCahill on May 28, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

No skin in the game I guess..

Actors pay is so detached (somehow) from the price of entertainment in people’s minds. I’ve never heard anyone bitch about prices at the movie and even mention the talent in their rants.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on May 28, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very true, DJ

The top actors & actresses make every bit as much, if not more, than the top athletes.

Hell, what about people like Letterman and Oprah, for that matter?

"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete."

-- Chuck Morgan

by RCCook on May 28, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hell, what about Bill Simmons?

He’s going to make something like $500k for each podcast on his next contract.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

how can you get mad about what anybody makes

they get paid by how much the organization thinks they will make for them…. just like any employee

what you should be mad at is people like milton bradley who got paid then did not bring in their expected value to their firm

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

"How can you get mad about what anybody makes"

Interesting question, given the incredible amount of time spent on executive salaries by our President/Congress and the amount of hell some companies catch for paying well.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is true

but what you are referring to is people probably not bringing in the value to their firm of what they were paid….. it is classic principle/agent problem (owner and managers interest not being the same)

and currently the controversy is that they are getting paid an easy 30 mill coming from the tax payer

but in theory you are right

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

the Church of Scientology cares

You hear about the "Electric Arms", they're all the rage.

"If the Rangers have marked improvement in 2010, I'm going to need to give JD credit." Josey Wales, Feb. 10, 2010 11:45 AM CST

by sunlegend54 on May 28, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

"enthusiastic strippers"

That phrase will live forever! Love it.

Offering continued condolences to Stars and Liverpool fans.

by RangerMoto on May 28, 2010 3:15 PM CDT reply actions  

It's because people don't understand economics

I once had an argument with a person who complained about athletes being paid so much money, but workers like teachers being left in the dust. I told her that it’s simple, nobody pays $200 in tickets per year, plus merchandise and sales to watch little Timmy’s third grade math teacher. If there wasn’t a demand to watch these athletes, the owners wouldn’t be able to supply their high contracts.

by Perfect Zero on May 28, 2010 3:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Depends on how hot she is.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

your right but...

people dont understand this is why we have crappy teachers…. we pay them a non-educated salary for a position that requires people to be educated.

this coupled with bushes no child left behind and the teachers union were no one gets fired = me knowing someone in high school that did not know where Europe was

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that had NOTHING to do with their parents...

Amazing how it’s always those 3 things that get mentioned, and that one critical thing that always gets left out.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on May 28, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is obviously...

a huge part of the issue as well.

I’m at the point where I feel that I have to teach my kid just about everything. Anything she learns at school is just sugar on top. Too many parents look at school as if it’s nothing more than a babysitter for their kids while they go to work.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 28, 2010 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

this should be a given

what sad is relying on teaching at home is what widens the gap between the poor and rich kids

i got this argument from one of Malcolm Gladwell books…. i dont remember which one

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

i obviously agree that parent are by far the most important

the problem is that their is a certain portion of students have terrible parents….. so yes our education system is incredibly important to them

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whats really funny?

You go to the game. You pay for your parking. A guy sits down next to you wearing a jersey (lets say an Elvis jersey), holding a beer in one hand, a dog in the other hand and then bitches about the fact that athelets make too much money.

I think that’s fucking hilarious. maybe its just me.

Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash

by iblum on May 28, 2010 3:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Judging by most political talk, probably 95%+ don't

It’s amazing the kinds of things I hear people say when they try to discuss economics, taxation, all that stuff.

The Texas Rangers have been synonymous with explosive firepower ever since they emptied 130 rounds into Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. - Alyssa Milano

by bking on May 28, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

rational people are only swayed by incentives

in a capitalist system businesses are in existence to maximize profits (their incentive)….. so organizations should raise their ticket price till profits are maximized wether the price is 1 dollar or 1000 dollars. depending on the fan’s elasticity (how they react to prices)

if corporations don’t in the short term it is to purchase goodwill for the future earnings

they are legally obligated by their share holders to make as much money as they can

this is the same thing for players….. sure as fans we want winning and the decreasing marginal utility that is experienced as the players make more money to be big factors but….. it is just not reasonable for players who, despite what it seems like, are rational.

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 4:01 PM CDT reply actions  

In a sports franchise

ticket prices are usually NOT priced to maximize profits because tickets are only a small portion of the profits the team makes. It might be more profitable for the team to only fill 60% of the stands from the standpoint of tickets, but the more people in the stands, the more concessions sold. Also, the more people seeing the team in person, the more who will watch on TV, therefore upping the TV ratings, allowing the team to getter broadcasting fees (or if the team owns the TV station, higher ad rates.) etc, etc, etc.

There’s also league revenue sharing, and other issues which affect the price of tickets as well…

Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash

by iblum on May 28, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I feel like you're talking down to me

not so much because I agree with the guy you were responding to (because I don’t) but just the way you wrote this article. You sound vengeful. Angry. You sound (blasphemous as this may be) like GRANDPA URINE. And Adam, I don’t like it. It’s the start to a 3 day weekend, damnit…

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on May 28, 2010 4:09 PM CDT reply actions  

Next up

Adam explains tort reform.

by Neftali's arm on May 28, 2010 4:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

It gets old

Hearing people bitch about how expensive going to a game is for their family of four. Don’t have more children than you can afford. Broke ass people should stay single and childless.

by styler27 on May 28, 2010 5:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i agree

but i think it works the opposite way

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Poverty breeds children.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on May 28, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm leaving this one now

"Josey drives to games??? I always assumed he rides in on his high horse" jam0152
"dirkatron has his own evaluation metric: rapes above replacement." AJM

by RangersSD on May 28, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's true though...

religion possibly breeds more children than anything.

Especially where I live.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on May 28, 2010 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you think Catholics are bad

Check out the Quiverfull movement.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on May 28, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

hehe

bet it takes play in kansas somewhere

by jonathan rigby on May 28, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent points all around.

Now, can AJ get some love? Guy is worth every $$$ McNair gives him.

by Phat Elvis on May 28, 2010 6:13 PM CDT reply actions  

m

"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.

Then he grounded out weakly to second.

by WyoRanger on May 28, 2010 9:59 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

mobile commenting failure

The thing I don’t get is why some fans demonize players for making money. If a player took a discount do they think the owner would drop ticket prices a cent? Who do you pay to see? An owner in his box seat or the guys on the field? So who should get the money? Once the owners screw us us enough we’ll quit going. Until then quit bitchin.

"You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.

Then he grounded out weakly to second.

by WyoRanger on May 28, 2010 10:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

That would be cool if a player volunteered to take a pay reduction

if they guaranteed in his contract that they would lower ticket prices by a $1 in some section or other.

by MikeEl on May 28, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Job, Adam....

The cap systems (hard or soft) are tied to revenues (well, all but MLB’s which is tied to player payroll thresholds set in advance).

Fans need to understand that even if salaries were constrained, there’s nothing preventing owners/leagues from jacking up ticket prices.

Prices are designed on supply and demand — what the market will bear. Certainly prices are set to offset expenditures, but the reality is, as long as fans will pay, there will always be a continued effort to push the pricing envelope. Just ask the Yankees.

by Maury Brown on May 28, 2010 11:33 PM CDT reply actions  

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