Another in my occasional rants about HGH not helping you play baseball
Researchers are reporting the first scientific evidence that a hormone banned in sports can boost athletic performance.
Aha, you see, t ball? We told you!
The improvement from human growth hormone was modest, and only in sprinting. It didn't increase strength or fitness.
Umm, well...
Growth hormone has been used by athletes in the belief that it builds muscle and improves performance. It's also harder to detect than other substances because it doesn't show up in urine tests.
Some of these guys also wear magnetic arm bands, wear the same shirt every day, and do anything else they even suspect might improve their game or ward off voodoo curses. They believe it will help. I believe in Santa Claus.
They lifted weights, jumped and rode exercise bikes to test their physical performance. Growth hormone didn't improve strength, power or endurance, the researchers said. The only improvement was for sprinting on a bicycle, a 4 percent increase in sprint capacity compared to those who didn't get the hormone. In men who also got testosterone shots, there was an 8 percent increase.
It's a waste of time and money to test for this stuff.
The study volunteers who took growth hormone lost body fat and gained lean body mass, but it was mostly from water retention, not from bulking up muscle, the researchers reported in Tuesday's issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine.
Side effects included swelling and joint pain.
Bah. And, to repeat myself, I am still far from convinced that steroids have much - if anything - to do with home run totals or increased offense. Pitchers took steroids, too; the strike zone was notably smaller; expansion; reports of a juiced ball; All of these things could have and probably did affect scoring in the "steroid" era. And home run totals have been steadily increasing for 100 years.
PED's should be legal and supervised and studied extensively on elite athletes. And Chicken Little types in the media should both own up to how they neglected covering drug use for decades and stop using anecdotes as evidence they have a huge effect on scoring. Here's the link to the article.
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in other news, marijuana does NOT get you high
people use it just because they think they are getting high, but they’re really not.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
so basically HGH is the extenze of PEDs
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on May 3, 2010 8:33 PM CDT reply actions
Uhhhhh.... tball, about Santa Claus
You see, well…. yeah, never mind.
"there's no money in triples" - CJ, 3.23.10
I've always been OK
with players taking whatever they want. I figure its their bodies.
As far as physicians prescribing HGH, hormones and steroids, they already do. Even on the ticket’s web radio broadcast outlet, they advertise the lowtcenter.com, a southlake clinic that will pump up your testosterone levels. I know some parents who have their kids on HGH because they are low on the height/weight percentiles.
Personally, I think most PEDs should be OK under a doctor’s supervision. I’d rather atheletes not self administer the shots like Caminiti and be on 365/24/7 cycles.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I think any serious effort at control has to come from the players.
As a group, they have a collective interest on setting limits on PEDs when there are significant health risks. Whether they choose to pursue that or not is another matter.
I’m skeptical enough of the drug wars to not buy the NIH or DEA proclamations on the dangers of steroids, but there have been some problems with some cycles and some drugs. In principle, I agree with your position on medical supervision, but the problem is that doctors are not as trustworthy as we might like.
I don’t care about preserving some imaginary standard of untainted performance so much as basic thresholds of contemporary fairness and safe medical practice.
If a doctor wants to risk his license
than there isn’t much you can do.
I do agree with you. Its up to the players and players union to institute any controls on PEDs. I think both the owners and the fans benefit from players taking PEDs. Only the players end up with the downside.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I think
that in general the perception of HGH has been clouded. I think most athletes use HGH because they believe it will do these things
- Increase endurance
- Increase “stamina” (Over length of season, prevent wear on body)
- Increase energy level
HGH are not anabolic steroids, they do two completely different things… Anabolic steroids do drastically increase muscle mass, that has been well documented. It also has extremely detrimental effects on some of your body functions, including liver/kidney/heart health.
To say we should legalize anabolic steroids and study them I think is irresponsible. They were legalized, they have been studied for a long time(30+ years). They are not safe for the average person to take recreation-ally, and can easily be abused to the detriment of the person due to the depressing effects.
HGH can be beneficial in a lot of ways that dont enhance player performance directly, but if you dont like that a player has more energy, recovers quickly from minor injuries, and has a bit more stamina late in a season, then HGH shouldn’t be used.
Those who dont like HGH should be against things like blood plate-lit therapy, protein enhancers, immune enhancers, and things like hydration treatments for players. But people aren’t, cause they are good. HGH is good too, when properly used under care of a doctor (some tests have shown HGH causes caner in some people), and shouldn’t be covered under the umbrella of anabolic steroids, its a black veil over an entire set of drugs being labeled PED’s. Just inst right.
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by FormerLSBUser on May 3, 2010 9:57 PM CDT reply actions
I agree with pretty much all of that
Steroids, even if they were legalized and you tried to control it by making players follow dr. prescriptions, etc…..well, some player is going to think about going around the regs and trying to get a little extra boost. You don’t want to legalize things that have been proven to be seriously harmful to your body.
But I do wish that the handwringing over what steroids have allegedly done to run scoring would stop. There is just no proof that steroids were anywhere as important a factor as those I cited above. A small strike zone will increase run production far more than anything the batter does.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
im sorry but i just cant agree with you at all on this matter
i mean, you have eyes right, look at some of the guys and how big they get, they were humongous man, you think that size and strength doesnt help them hit HRs…are you fucking kidding me, youre smarter than this
shit, ive had more than one friend take steroids, and they will openly tell you that it made them much stronger
if you dont think steroids help guys hit HRs, well then you just arent opening up your eyes
the stats, the size, it all points to that being the case
Fuck Mike Estabrook
this is in regards to steroids only btw
HGH is a murkier subject that we have less info on, and unlike steroids, they are actually good for you in a ton of ways without a shit ton of terrible side affects
Fuck Mike Estabrook
This is exactly the kind of bullshit logic that kills me, and you're kind of missing my point
Show me the clinical proof that steroids help you hit a baseball. Yes, on the face of it I buy that getting stronger might help you hit a baseball ball a little bit farther. But you want me to believe that expansions, a smaller strike zone, and other factors are less significant than steroids. Oh, and why are you forgetting that pitchers took steroids, too? More pitchers than hitters have been suspended for PEDs.
You’re fucking kidding me, you’re smarter than this. I’m not saying that steroids had zero effect. I’m saying that the effect is way overblown in the media (and gullible fans like you who buy what the pontificating columnists print) and that it is not as large as the other effects.
How do you explain the steady increase in home run totals league wide over the last 100 years? A steady increase in steroid intake? Give me a break. The jump in offense in the early 90s coincides with expansion. Hitters didn’t suddenly take a hell of a lot more steroids from one season to the next. Jesu H. Christe, what the hell is wrong with peoples’ brains?
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
You're totally right.
Horns, you have to think of this as a scientific experiment. There were multiple variables in play. If someone performed testing in which anabolic steroid use was the only alteration, then you could make sound conclusions about its effects. If you cannot do this and try to draw firm conclusions, you are an extremely bad scientist.
no im not
you can still make conclusions based on the data you have…you just cant try to present them as fact, but you sure as shit can still attempt to make a conclusion
i firmly believe steroids are the biggest factor
Fuck Mike Estabrook
What data?
We have no data for the independent effect of expansion. We have no data for the independent effect of strikezone alterations. We have no data for the independent effect of steroids on hitting. We have no data for the independent effect of steroids on pitching. We have no data for the combined effects of hitters who have used steroids vs. pitchers who have used steroids.
Allow me to summarize, simply: We have no data. You can draw no conclusions because you have no data. Nobody has any data. Are you allowed to make conclusions? Yes, but as I said, those conclusions are not sound. You are taking what is known in some scientific circles as a “wild-ass guess.” You believe steroids are the biggest factor, but have no verifiable (independent or otherwise) data to back up your wild-ass guess.
If I’m mistaken, then please direct me to the scientific studies on the effects of runs scored in baseball that independently study any of the potential causes mentioned above.
then explain to me why HR numbers have taken a dive since steroid testing has become more stringent
and i never said that steroids were the only factor. Also, steroids probably dont help you hit the ball better, but I 100% believe that steroids help you hit the ball harder when you make contact.
As for pitchers using steroids, strength isnt a huge factor in pitching….as a matter of fact, i might even argue that added bulk would be bad due to the decrease in flexibility
obviously we’re not going to agree on this matter, but I just cant believe how someone doesnt think steroids help you hit HR.
Let me ask you 1 question, do you personally know anyone who has taken steroids?
Fuck Mike Estabrook
I never said steroids had zero effect or zero
just that the effect, whatever it is, is hugely overblown. The media tend to completely ignore any other factor when discussing steroids.
Home run rates have taken a dive since testing was implemented?
2009 1.04 HR per game
2008 1.01
2007 1.02
2006 1.11
2005 1.03
2004 1.12
2003 1.07
2002 1.04
Guess not.
Yes, I’ve known some people who have taken steroids. It has no relevance to my point. They are a health risk and I’m fine with banning them because I think it makes sense for MLB. But for the media to argue that run scoring is tied at the hip to steroid use is ridiculous. And HGH has even less to do with run scoring and I find the hoopla over its use, effectiveness and testing to be just so much “Oh, won’t someone please think of the children!?!” crap.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
clinical proof
mcguire, sosa, bonds, a-rod, palmeiro, canseco, juan gonzalez, man ram, giambi
the most prolific HR hitters of an era – all steroid users
please provide the list of non-steroid users that were among season/career HR leaders during this time. if your argument that expansion and small strike zone were the contributing factor holds true, there should have been a fairly-represented number of non-users in that group
griffey, mcgriff ???
i’m sorry, but you’re completely, completely wrong. sadly, you aren’t smarter than this, and your futile efforts to make a molehill out of a mountain are tragically weak.
during that time, there were a couple of guys with 1-2 good seasons in terms of HRs, but the guys that year-in and year-out were racking up HRs were all users.
defeatist pussy lives here
by sam in so cal on May 7, 2010 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
Chrome spell check corrected me
"Hey Sanka, you can pee now... uuummm, too late...."
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by FormerLSBUser on May 4, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
"f you dont like that a player has more energy, recovers quickly from minor injuries, and has a bit more stamina late in a season, then HGH shouldn’t be used."
And I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t like that. And if someone does, is that person opposed to all advancements in medicine? Does he not like that a pitcher’s career isn’t ended thanks to Tommy John surgery?
I can't say it doesn't help...
but I can’t say that it does either. I am pretty convinced that it can help you recover from injuries quicker though.
Obviously there are a lot of players that were/are convinced that it does help them (and not just coming back for injuries) because so many have used it. I’m just at the point that I don’t care.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Recover from injuries quicker
I’m very much in favor of that. I want to see them back on the field quickly, not watch replacement level guys suck up innings instead.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
I've got it figured out guys. Eric Byrnes must be a HUGE PED abuser...
The only improvement was for sprinting on a bicycle
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
by AceJC on May 4, 2010 1:16 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Have you read Tobin's paper?
While there are obvious correlation != causation issues, the biomechanical explanation for increased muscle mass leading to a higher HRBiP ratio is pretty persuasive.
I think there is probably some very minor effect
and I think that’s fine and players should be allowed to use it. All the hand wringing and posturing is what I hate.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
Nothing about what he said
necessitates a change in my stance. I’m not persuaded that the minor effects described in any of the studies equal better performance on the baseball field. HGH might help you heal faster, I’m all for it. It’s stupid to ban HGH on the skimpy evidence that’s out there.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
HGH is one thing, steroids is another.
The HRBiP effect is statistically significant (as much as a 50% increase). Now, to the extent that HGH accelerates the development of muscle mass (I frankly don’t know what the hell it does), it, too, will have an affect on HRBiP ratios.
Then how do you explain the steady rise in home run rates
over the last 100 years? Have players steadily increased steroids? Look, I understand that steroids may have some effect, I’m not saying they have zero effect. I’m saying that other factors are being largely ignored in the rush to pontificate and demonize a few players. The effect of steroids has been exaggerated in the interest of writing screeds posing as newspaper columns. And HGH is just part of that media umbrella.
MLB is acting because of public perception and possible legal ramifications in my view, not because of hard science. That’s smart policy for them. But much more study needs to be done, and the media needs to be much more accurate in its reporting. My rant is not about proving that steroids have no effect, it’s about balance in the discussion.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
I have such a hard time buying your argument t ball
I don’t have the time or will to do the research, but from my understanding, HGH allows a player to work out longer and harder, increasing their strength, power, durability, etc.
This test may be flawed, used on recreational athletes. It seems to me that the true benefits of such a drug would be on extremely competitive athletes, a la Arod, Bonds, Clemens, who work their asses off in the gym.
Again, I tend to buy what you sell, but until their is empirical evidence that it doesn’t help the best of the best raise their game, I’m going to believe my eyes on this one. Bonds, Arod, Clemons, Caminetti, Sosa, McGwire, Ortiz, etc all got dramatically bigger in size at the same their performances took a leap.
Regardless of the pitchers’ use of HGH, the hitters have the ultimate say in whether the hit winds up over the fences.
I’m not saying the HGH caused their improvements, but it definitely helped facilitate the inflation in their numbers. In a 3-yr span, 3 players broke the single-season HR record 6 times after it had stood for 38 years. Immediately after, the steroid and HGH stories break loose, explaining their abnormal body masses and athleticism.
To look passed their increase muscle-sizes and bat speeds to blame juiced balls seems like a reach to me.
I fully support more extensive testing and said so
but to place such importance on it with so little current evidence is silly, in my opinion.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
Does your stance
just apply to HGH, or to steroids also?
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
Steroids probably helps a little
but not nearly so much as self-righteous columnists would have us believe, and no matter what steroids do, they would be far from the only factor influencing run scoring environments.
I’m perfectly ok with MLB outlawing steroids, since there is serious evidence there that they are very harmful to the body. I could go along with letting athletes do what they want to themselves, but an entity like MLB can’t just knowingly let people hurt themselves like that. Even with serious waivers from the union, they’d be at huge risk from lawsuits. Hell, maybe they think they are from HGH users if they don’t test. I’m sure it makes sense to them to just ban anything that looks like a PED as a blanket policy.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
HGH may not increase your ultimate performance ceiling but it certainly prevents drop-off with age
The effects are very well documented and researched in older patients
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
How many of these older patients played professional baseball
while taking HGH?
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
I wouldn't be surprised
if some of the productive 40 year olds, like Bonds, were taking HGH.
"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
Perhaps, but obviously
Bonds was not in the study eclou is citing and neither was anyone else remotely resembling a professional athlete.
The effects of HGH on your ability to play baseball – if there are any – are most likely very small.
Ceterum censeo, Ron Washington esse delendam
What about?
Those marginal players who lacked serious power and instantly found it? Adrian Gonzales types? That always seemed suspicious to me. Even Teixeira always looked up and down in the body dept.
Laynce Nix might be a player who took PED’s, he seemed to prove how they cannot make you a great player.
"I wish to believe. But my belief is a graveyard." - Charles Bukowski
heh
The researchers noted some limitations. They couldn’t test the hormone in elite athletes for ethical reasons, and they used a smaller dose for a shorter time than reported for illegal use. Larger doses and longer use might have more impact and more serious side effects, they said. …The director general of the World Anti-Doping Agency, which helped pay for the study, said the results aren’t surprising to him and will disprove skeptics who don’t think the hormone helps. ….growth hormone usually isn’t used alone.
Why use PED's?
I like this piece, T-Ball. It’s an interesting take.
I disagree on many levels, most of which have been stated already, especially the concept of how difficult it is to measure this. I will say this, the idea that PED’s had a minimal effect on the game was new information for me. I can see your points there.
"I wish to believe. But my belief is a graveyard." - Charles Bukowski

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