Longoria vs BJ Upton
by kwellborn on Jun 28, 2010 9:23 AM CDT
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PrintJust saw Buster Olney talking about this on ESPN, so in attempt to not allow his stupidity to stick I thought I should post my response. No excuse for B.J. Upton's lack of hustle or his getting picked off, but I don't understand how Evan Longoria is seen as not doing any harm. If a player is going to say something to Upton in the dugout it should be another outfielder not an infielder. Otherwise wait to get in the clubhouse.
Longoria has 353 games in the league. BJ Upton has 586. Carl Crawford has 1153 games played. Carl Crawford should have stepped up and said something if anyone.
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If a player is going to say something to Upton in the dugout it should be another outfielder not an infielder.
Why?
In my opinion
In light of BJ Upton’s explanation being that he thought the left fielder was going to get there, I think it is an outfield positioning issue. I don’t think the infield want to hear the outfielders’ opinions about how the infield is played an vice versa. It is my understanding that the center fielder is the voice of the outfield and shortstop is the voice of the infield.
Ephesians 1:3-10
I don't see position as a factor
Longoria is seen as one of the leaders of the team, and he addressed the issue.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 28, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
You don't think Face would say something if an outfielder was dogging it?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I don't think he would have any room to speak.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
thats not the point
point is it doesnt matter what position the player plays, if they are a team leader they do things like that.
Longoria may not be a grizzled vet but he is clearly a team leader.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Well yeah
I don’t think MY would do that though. I don’t think he’s really a “team leader” in the Longo sense of the term though, he’s just Mr. Seniority. I don’t really think our clubhouse has a guy like Longo, really, they’re too into the “don’t worry, be happy, everybody has to be a harmonious worker bee or they’re DFA’d” thing.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
I don't think you're right at all
It if Young. He was the one that said something to Wilson and he speaks for the clubhouse regularly. There haven’t been too many instances of people getting out of line but I’m pretty sure Young is the one who handles it.
Why not?
Because he dogs it so much?
Give me a freaking break. Just because you hate Young doesn’t mean that he’s halfassing it out there.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 28, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll retract my statement the next time I see him do an all-out legit dive for a ball.
Could be awhile.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
that's ridiculous
he dives all the time. he’s just not anywhere close to the ball.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
He belly flops.
Belly flops aren’t really dives.
But really it’s semantics. My original point wasn’t that Young loafs, it’s that Young has no business getting up in anyones face over defense because he’s fucking terrible at it.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
You're wrong
if Julio Borbon just gives a lazy stroll to a fly ball, letting it fall in, everyone and their dog would expect Young to be the man who goes to Borbon and tears him a new one. Addressing sloppy, lazy play is not a function reserved for the best defensive player on the team. No one would say that it is Elvis’s responsibility since he’s the best defensive player on the team.
Go Rice Owls!
I don't think it's anyone's "responsibility"
Except maybe Wash’s or Pettis’s.
Doesn’t mean Hypothetical Borbon shouldn’t be reminded you can’t play shitty and expect to win, but I don’t think having someone who’s terrible at the very issue in question attempt to show up another player is a very efficient way of carrying a message. If I’m Hypothetical Borbon, I’m just going to be thinking “well shit, you can’t even dive for balls at third, and you’re trying to ride my ass?”
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
Yes it is
There are 3 levels of leadership on a baseball team. There is the manager, the asst coaches and the leader on the field. I dont care what your feelings are for Young, he is the leader of the team. If he speaks im sure the other players listen.
Thank the good lord I never played with someone like you in college.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jun 28, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Hasselman
How many times have we heard about Bill Hasselman getting in everyone’s face in the Ranger’s lockerroom? A freaking backup catcher! He had earned that right by the way he works and carried himself. He had become a leader of the team. Young is definitely one of the leaders on this team.
Way before his time
I do agree with your point though.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
You right.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Its not about defensive ability
or being “good” at your position. Upton didnt “misread” or “miss” a fly ball. He halfed assed it and the guy ended up with a triple. Would he have gotten a triple if Upton was busting it for it, possibly. It didnt end up mattering bc the next guy hit a 2 run bomb. Its the fact that Upton was not giving it 100% and Longoria, the leader of that team, has every right to jump his ass, just like Young would.
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Dave Valle
Dave fucking Valle.
And do you understand that usually a manager or a head coach is terrible at playing the position but routinely tells people what to do?
Leadership has nothing to do with skill.
The same Dave Fucking Valle who was a 10+ year Mariner?
And a fucking backup at that point, that Dave Fucking Valle?!
A recounting from 1996:
But there were many MVPs on that team and maybe none more so than the backup catcher, Dave Valle, who called a team meeting in Detroit and went around the clubhouse, looking each player in the eye and asking them if they were prepared to do what it takes to win.
The Rangers responded with a seven-game winning streak, which included John Burkett throwing a complete game shutout on Aug. 11 just after being acquired from the Florida Marlins, a trade made by general manager Doug Melvin that still may rank as the most important in-season transaction ever in club history.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
The same Dave Valle who wasn't really good at any part of his job
(unlike Face).
Leadership has nothing to do with your playing abilities. There are players who don’t agree and they end up getting shitcanned if they voice their displeasure about it.
This entire subthread shows why you need to get out more
You have absolutely no understanding of the human element of anything.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Young
He doesn’t loaf, he just doesn’t have the physical abilities to get to many of those balls near him.
Not being good defensively doesn’t mean he dog’s it and goes slow letting a double turn into a triple.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Im not a big MY fan
but he does bust his ass. Ive never doubted his hustle.
"JD gets complete blame or credit for what happens in 2010 and I think Nolan wants it that way. JD is paid to be a real GM and needs to start performing like one." - Josey Wales
by Michael Cave on Jun 28, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
you sound like the stereotypical idiot who has never played baseball
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Jun 28, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but this is the dumbest post I've ever read in here.
I have never been known as a MY supporter…but to suggest that he dogs it is just silly.
Come on Jonathan.!!!
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
Agree
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
And they keep coming.
"There's really no way of knowing... Sometimes when I see their big eyes looking up from my lap I think, that's definitely a homeless guy in a fur coat." Betty White on SNL
And I was getting crap for giving hell to the noobs in a GDT.
See this is what happens when the DMN loses control of their boundries.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Not a noob
I am not a “noob”. I just stopped posting a while back because people get so bent out of shape whenever anyone posts something they don’t like or they don’t find to be “post worthy”. There are too many people on here that think they own the place and they go around trashing everyone that they disagree with. I guess my break from posting was long enough for me to forget why I had stopped. Thanks for the reminder.
Ephesians 1:3-10
Awe. are your blogging feelings hurt??
You gotta have tougher skin than that bro. Every single poster on this site has been dogged or destroyed for something they have said/posted. Its just the way it goes. Like you said, get over it and ignore it, which is really easy to do, or just go back to not posting!! We’re all still friends here, kind of>!!
Elvis has "shook up" Arlington!!
Feelings are not hurt
I just don’t enjoy the typical “banter” that goes on. Instead of participating in it I choose to not post or at least I had been. I think I will be going back to that.
I just felt that it was worth pointing out that in the last few years the quality of the discussions has gone down. I read the posts, but rarely read the fan posts or any of the discussions because they really have nothing to offer. The discussion are hijacked by trolls trying to get a reaction out of people. It’s just not for me. Those that enjoy it will continue and those that don’t will go somewhere else.
Ephesians 1:3-10
This is a
Texas Rangers forum. Just wanted to make sure that was pointed out.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Seriously?
There are tons of “non-Rangers” topics discussed. There was a freaking World Cup thread for crying out loud. Non-Ranger topics are what the fanposts are for.
Ephesians 1:3-10
look man
we talk a lot about a lot of stuff. But go to the Rays board if you want to talk about Rays stuff, or at least make this a comment in an existing thread or a Fanshot, at most. A minor altercation involving another team’s players doesn’t warrant a LSB Fanpost, imo.
And Fanposts are certainly NOT ‘for Non-Ranger topics’. They are meant to be forums for users to express original, analytical thoughts about that organization’s current situation. Whether that’s what they’re used for or not, that’s up to the individual user. If you’re going to make it OT, at least make it interesting, funny, or topical at least in a general way. This is none of those things.
But hell, that’s my two cents. It did create some discussion, and that’s also the point of Fanposts, but I think this blog would be better off sticking to Rangers-centric material in the Fanposts.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
I don't see what the problem is
This was kind of a big deal. I tweeted about it. There are FanPosts up about finding a home for puppies, and the World Cup. The point of FanPosts is to open up discussions about things, whether they be directly Rangers related, related to other things in baseball, or related to off-topic matters.
I don’t know why he should have to go post this on a Rays board.
by Adam J. Morris on Jun 28, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Well then it looks like we disagree.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Your position appears to be untenable
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
to make this a rangers thread
Any interest in BJ Upton in a trade? The rangers were said to have kicked the tires on him before the season. Has Borbon’s play of late made Upton not interesting? I would have to think Upton’s ceiling is far higher than Borbon’s (a high average, no power, low walk player).
While we are at it, any interest in Zambrano over Oswalt/Lee?
Nah...
this team doesn’t need another OF bat right now.
Unless it’s a cheap option for a RH hitting 4th OFer who can also play a little 1B.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Yes, I'd replace Julio Borbon with Upton in a heartbeat.
Mike Olt - 2013 A.L. Rookie of the Year.
He declined to accept the award as to not show up his fellow rookies. Incentives earned from being named ROY were donated to a local charity. He did not report this donation on his tax return.
Heh
I would have to think Upton’s ceiling is far higher than Borbon’s (a high average, no power, low walk player).
A little bit, yes.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
Mr. Scheppers says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...
by Brian Thomas on Jun 30, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
We had a full discussion and front page over the blown perfect game
Even though this a Ranger board I see no problem with giving posts to issues that might be of interest to the community. If you don’t care about the post then ignore it. Now if you want to criticize how the information was presented or a reason why you think it isn’t post worthy then add to the discussion.
"Hell's frozen over, Pigs are flying! The Saints have won the Super Bowl"
Shreveport Captains in LSB H2H Fantasy League
Here's what's going to happen
The Rays will stop slumping and go on a good run soon and the media will credit Longoria’s leadership and the team chemistry for it.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Is that bad?
I like that he said something except if it just makes the other guy angry, it’s not particularly helpful
No, it's not bad
But I think the Rays’ chemistry was probably just fine before, during, and after the incident. But the media likes this kind of story (and we generally like reading it, too) and I can see it popping up again when the Rays inevitably even out and start playing better.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I think some people undervalue morale
It’s important in every other professional setting, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be important in baseball. Assuming Upton was dogging it, it is unacceptable. If it had gone completely unaddressable, it could have quickly led to more dogging it and even less chance of bouncing back. A bad team can’t win games with good morale but a good team in a competitive division could certainly under perform with bad morale or just when they are exposed to bad working environments.
I don’t know if Longoria saying something helped or hurt but I recognize that it could have helped and I would give credit to him if it did.
I agree
I think Longoria did exactly the right thing, and it’s a pretty good sign for a guy his age and experience level to be seen as that kind of leader already. The Rays really have something in that guy.
I still think the media will make too much of it most of the time. But if Longoria can help a talent like Upton perform better, he’s even more underpaid. I did not intend my post to be negative towards Longoria at all. But as I said, the Rays’ chemistry was fine before this, and this was just a blip. If this worked and Upton fell in line, it was because Longoria was already considered a strong leader.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
That is sort of my problem
with the way the story is being presented by the media. As stated, I don’t think Longoria’s approach to the situation was a good one and it irritates me that he is being written as the hero in this. Upton didn’t do himself any justice, but I see this as too egos yelling at each other. If they go on a winning streak I think it is simply coincidence.
Ephesians 1:3-10
Poll Fail
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
unqualified opinion
the Court finds the witness unqualified to offer an expert opinion on this matter. see TRE 702, 703
keep on rockin' in the free world !
Blah
I’m fine with Longoria saying something, but he should’ve waited until they got into the clubhouse OR even better gone all Jake Taylor on him.
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