Trade values

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 5:06 PM CDT

I'm curious as to what every one thinks would be reasonable trades for some of the players most frequently connected to the Rangers of late.

Lets say Lee, Oswalt and Wiggington to start with. If anyone has some ideas of people that I have missed feel free to toss the name in and what you think they would be worth.

And I do realize that right now it looks like we aren't going to be able to trade without giving up extra to get all the salary taken by the other team.

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ok I will take a shot....

Lee for Scheppers, Davis, Beltre

Oswalt for Beaven, Davis, Kiker

Wiggington for Kiker and Marcus Lemon

by death of the cool on Jun 28, 2010 5:15 PM CDT reply actions

AJM's head just exploded.

Kiker has no value whatsoever.

"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton

by Aqua on Jun 28, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions

wigginton doesn't have a whole lot

Fanatics - my webcomic

by DShep on Jun 28, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Multipositional backup with

mediocre bat and poor defense. Useful but not all that valuable.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Kiker

Rangers refused to give him up last season in a pretty prominent deal

by Topgun22 on Jun 28, 2010 6:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions

which one?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 28, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions

I would give that up for Oswalt

"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010

by boomer1 on Jun 28, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions

me too

by Sherman McCoy on Jun 28, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not that they're far off

It’s that you’re assuming the Rangers are taking on all the salary, and I’m not sure that’s going to be the case.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions

yes that was an assumption on all...

the deals get larger if we dont take on the salary….Oswalt mostly

by death of the cool on Jun 28, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions

I may be off my rocker,

but I think Crush, Beltre (either one really), and Font gets Lee done easily

I would say that’s a good deal for us since we are basically recycling Beltre & Font into draft picks and giving up our potential down the road DH candidate for an ace starter.

Oswalt would be hard to predict because of the contract situation

by blakethegr8 on Jun 28, 2010 5:25 PM CDT reply actions

based on the previous Lee trades

that sounds reasonable

I'm with COCO!!!

by Baseball North on Jun 28, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree.

If the Astros ate most of the salary they might actually come close to getting Scheppers or Perez.

I don’t think I would do it, but keeping the burden while giving up the player is pretty beefy on the prospect scale.

For Lee I almost bet you have to give up Beaven as the major piece, but its a pretty equal idea anyway.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not high on Beaven

I say let him go with Font and Beltre. Doubt that gets it done though.

by boomer1 on Jun 28, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Its just that right now Beaven is looking like a midrotation type pitcher.

And that type of player with team control for a while can be somewhat valuable.

Font is definitely higher upside but I think also significant chance he is never anything.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Valuable, yes

But all these players are going to need one ‘headline’ sort of prospect if the Rangers can’t pick up the whole salary and that the Rangers only have two of: Scheppers, Perez.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions

Plus Beavan is pegged to be a high-innings guy

which increases that value

by JoeyJoeJoeJr.Shabadoo on Jun 28, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions

if that is all it would cost to get Lee

I say do it right now.

by boomer1 on Jun 28, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Depends which side you believe I s'pose

In his previous two moves in the past year, he has not been traded for great prospect hauls. The only explanation I can figure is that he wasn’t properly valued at the time of the Philly trade (probably do to injury concerns) and that Philly was in such a hurry to trade him (in order to get Halladay) that they didn’t fully explore the market. Both of these reasons seem a little bit odd to me, but that’s the counterpoint to the “He hasn’t been traded for that much” side.

Based on what he should be valued at from a performance + draft picks (in a loaded draft) + cheap contract, that deal is not even in the right ballpark.

That seems light either way, I think. From what I can gather, M’s fans are expecting back a Top 25 prospect. We’ll see if it happens…

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions

I think you and your rocker are not in close proximity

"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34

Mr. Scheppers says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...

by Brian Thomas on Jun 28, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions

So far the rumors on Lee have mentioned

Shelby Miller
Wilson Ramos

I think Font is just beneath these two, and Perez is way above these two.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Jun 28, 2010 5:28 PM CDT reply actions

I have no feel of whether Salty or MaxRam would b of interest should the Ms really want to focus on a catching prospect.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Jun 28, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions

If you trade Max right now though...

What do you do at catcher for the rest of the season? Do you put that kind of confidence in Salty at this point?

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jun 28, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Is Max really that good of a catcher though?

Salty if he can throw the ball back is probably an equal or superior option. I do realize Salty isn’t hitting right now. But Max can’t keep anyone from stealing right now either. I’m really scared of what happens in Anaheim, at least Figgins isn’t there any more.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions

I guess you're right.

From the standpoint the FO is taking on him right now though, you have to get the feeling that they have zero confidence in Salty at the moment.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jun 28, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree

I just think that wouldn’t stop the team from dealing Max Ram for the right piece.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Very true...

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Jun 28, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions

I read it differently

Two things:

1. they have been pleased/somewhat pleasantly surprised with Max’s performance.

2. they feel (correctly) Jumpstain has a somewhat arrogant sense of entitlement, and despite the fact that he has shown marked improvement, want to see sustained evidence of such.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if some members of the 25 man have echoed these concerns to Wash and Daniels.

"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34

Mr. Scheppers says sit your 5 dollar ass down before he makes change...

by Brian Thomas on Jun 28, 2010 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Shelby Miller...

Is he even trade eligible?

by Topgun22 on Jun 28, 2010 6:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions

Miller

Signed last August. He could be a PTBNL in a July trade.

by Darrell McKown on Jun 28, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions

same as Scheppers

Would have to be a PTBNL

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jun 28, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions

LSB will explode if JD

makes a deadline deal that includes a PTBNL.

Thank you Houston for drafting Jason Castro.

by RangerMad on Jun 28, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions

heh...

by death of the cool on Jun 28, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Ramos was a Top100 prospect going into the year

And is almost certainly a Top40 prospect. Font isn’t there yet. He might crack Top100 this year…maybe.

Perez is better than those two, but there’s some thought that position players are more valuable that pitchers (because of injury) and even more so here because of Seattle’s needs.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions

I would also bet that Font is top 100 now, but probably not top 50.

If position players are their target….

Engel Beltre might be the game changer. Just as with Font, I would bet Beltre is top 100 now, and if the rumors that they’re looking for guys who will contribute in 2012, he could very well be breaking in that year and has probably more upside than Ramos.

It would require a saavy scouting department to be that much in the know on Beltre, and it would also require a GM who looks for tools as much as current results.

Pro baseball has always been a dream, so this is pretty freakin’ cool out here. -- Tim Steggall, undrafted Rangers minor leaguer.

by rooster on Jun 28, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Market

Trade value is dictated by the needs and perception of the other team. A player is worth what the gm perceives is the best collection of talent offered.

The M’s might place a higher value on someone like Font because of their familiarity with him.

Beltre’s start may be a showcase.

by Neftali's arm on Jun 28, 2010 5:39 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

Lee

If he isn’t dealt until closer to the trade deadline, we might be able to throw Francisco into a three-team deal to make something work that avoided giving up Perez or Scheppers.

Say you make the deal at the end of July, and you add a third team to trade Francisco to, particularly considering that relievers generally tend to have nice value in deadline deals. By trading for Lee at the end of July, and unloading Francisco’s salary, the deal only costs you a little under $2 million (one-third of Lee’s $9 million, offset by one-third of Francisco’s $3.3 million), which based on comments from JD we may have available in the MLB and court-approved 2010 budget.

Now, the Mariners don’t have to pick up any salary, so the cost should be at least a little less in players. So, then you offer them Font, Davis, Beavan and the prospect you get for Francisco in return for Lee.

You have to replace Francisco in the bullpen, but hopefully between Ogando, Beltre and Sheppers, plus either a Feldman, Holland or Hunter getting dropped from the rotation, you can manage that and you’ve held on to Perez and Sheppers.

by Darrell McKown on Jun 28, 2010 6:16 PM CDT reply actions

The problem I see with this thinking is

Lee is now about to be traded for the third time in a year, and he hasn’t gotten a player of Scheppers or Perez in any of those deals. Aumont isn’t bad, a back of the top 100 type of player.

So I have a problem seeing how suddenly with 6 months of control before he becomes a Yankee, most likely, he is suddenly worth a top 25 player plus some other stuff.

And I doubt we move Frankie Frank at all. It just doesn’t make sense to weaken a team strength while in a playoff run.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Well I think Ogando can take Frankie's spot and it won't kill us to move him

Schepper’s development may be a factor in that too.

By the way, Do you think the Beltre move will send Beavan to AAA?

"Hell's frozen over, Pigs are flying! The Saints have won the Super Bowl"
Shreveport Captains in LSB H2H Fantasy League

by LSU Ranger on Jun 28, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions

On paper it works

But that would leave Oliver as the only really experienced bullpen guy and I’m not sure the Rangers would feel comfortable heading into September/October.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Lee

I don’t think Font, Davis, and Beavan is more than Seattle gave up to get him.

Trading Francisco is more about making the dollars work. I don’t think we are going to be out of Chapter 11 by July 31, and thus we may have to shed payroll to add payroll.

by Darrell McKown on Jun 28, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions

No that isn't

Sorry I went off half cocked there. Stupid on my part. Misread what you were saying. I agree.

I just don’t see us moving Franky. I agree he has value and that RP usually go for more then they are worth at the deadline, but it seems like taking a half step back after taking a step forward. I guess if we have to we might be able to do something, but damn moving franky for about 1 million in flexibility would some how manage to further my hate for Hicks that I thought had bottomed out.

What do voluntary mean?

The dude abides.....

by JKolar on Jun 28, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Why would Seattle want Davis if they just got Branyan and have that Ackley guy from last year?

"Hell's frozen over, Pigs are flying! The Saints have won the Super Bowl"
Shreveport Captains in LSB H2H Fantasy League

by LSU Ranger on Jun 28, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Ackley is going to be a 2B or OF

Davis will probably be better than Branyan for cheaper over the next 4 years.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions

look at what minny got for johan santana shit we are not going to overpay for lee

by mainiac1717 on Jun 29, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think they can justify

Moving the setup guy when they’re supposed to be going for it, even if they have quality in the bullpen that could probably fill in.

It is an interesting idea about the salary…I just have a feeling that they’ll pay extra in prospects instead of weakening the team.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Bullpen

I think they can justify moving the setup guy in a deal for a top-of-the-rotation starter.

by Darrell McKown on Jun 28, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Not when...

…they could just as easily send a prospect who’s farther away. That method also doesn’t improve a contending team looking for a closer.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions

good idea i likey

by mainiac1717 on Jun 29, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions

I think you guys are undervaluing Lee signficantly

I’m betting that part of the reason he was traded for less than he was worth previously is because there was the concern he would get injured over some stretch of the remaining time. He did get injured, missing the first month.

Now that there’s only a few months left on his contract, it’s much less likely that he gets hurt. Even if he does get hurt and doesn’t give you the performance you were expecting on the field, he’s likely done enough this year for you to still be able to get draft picks at the end of the season.

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on Jun 28, 2010 6:59 PM CDT reply actions