On the Bengie Molina trade
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2010 10:12 AM CDT
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PrintAs I think everyone knows by now, the Rangers and Giants have agreed to a deal that would send Chris Ray to the Giants, along with a player to be named later, in exchange for Bengie Molina and cash. The Giants are paying the difference between Molina's salary and Ray's salary the rest of the year.
I'm okay with this deal, assuming that the PTBNL isn't Robbie Erlin or Robbie Ross or someone of significance.
The Rangers have gotten by so far this year with the Matt Treanor/Max Ramirez combo behind the plate, but Treanor is 34 and has never appeared in more than 67 games in the majors, while Max is considered to be weak defensively, particularly in his game calling.
Ken Rosenthal thinks this is a good deal for the Rangers, and thinks the Giants are taking a risk in giving up Molina, despite his obvious flaws:
Molina doesn’t get on base, doesn’t hit for power, can’t run. His offensive deficiencies will be less of an issue with the Rangers, the AL’s third-highest scoring club. The Giants are painfully slow, grounding into more double plays than any team in the NL by a wide margin.
The question is whether the Giants will gain enough offense to compensate for the loss of Molina’s defense. Manager Bruce Bochy, a former catcher, staunchly supported Molina, recognizing his value behind the plate.
Rosenthal says neither Treanor nor Ramirez can match Molina's ability to handle a staff, and as I've talked about before, that is a point of emphasis with the Rangers. Catcher defense -- and in particular, the game calling and pitching staff handling aspects of it -- are just about impossible for us on the outside to evaluate well, and I am not sure how much of an impact it really has.
However, Oakland and Boston are also organizations that have, in recent years, put a lot of emphasis on that aspect of the catching game. And when Billy Beane and Theo Epstein indicate that they think something is important, that gets my attention.
Of additional interest is Rosenthal saying that the Rangers are heavily in on Cliff Lee, whose expiring deal and relatively low salary makes him a more attractive trade target, if the ownership situation doesn't get resolved, than Roy Oswalt would be.
One other note on Molina...this year, while he's been terrible overall with the bat, he's hit .385/.453/.473 against LHPs. Last year, he hit .277/.315/.563. If the Rangers start him against all the lefties they face, and use him sparingly against righthanders, he may actually help the lineup.
What shall be interesting to see is what the Rangers do with their roster. With Ray out and Molina in, the Rangers are going to be at a 7 man bullpen. The Rangers could send down Omar Beltre and bring up Doug Mathis or Guillermo Moscoso, if they want to go back to an 8 man pen, but they'd need another starter on Monday (unless they opted to go with Dustin Nippert there).
They could send Max Ramirez down and bring up Mathis or Moscoso or someone to fill out the bullpen. I'd rather they not send Ramirez out, though...having Ramirez would give the Rangers more flexibility for pinch running for Molina late in games or hitting for Molina or Treanor, and Ramirez could spell Justin Smoak at first base.
That would mean cutting Joaquin Arias loose, of course, and the Rangers seem loathe to do that...but I think it would be the right move.
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Probably see Max go down and
Strop come up.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Fangraphs
thinks the Rangers add nothing in Molina
100% agree on the roster moves, but it won’t happen.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
OTOH
does anyone think the Rangers lose anything in this deal? No one expects the PTBNL to be significant, do they?
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I don't really think these are accurate statements from Moore:
the incompetence of Matt Treanor and the disappointing although underrated season from Max Ramirez.
Can't carry 3 catchers and 2 UIF's
It’s Max prolly
"Ooooh....I want some fucking pancakes!" son of willamos2
How many teams still carry 3 catchers?
I think I would like it, for the reasons listed above, but I am not sure this team’s pitching is good enough to go short handed in the pen.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
That wasn't the question.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
So
given this trade, I think I would be more on board with a Max for Lowell trade than I was before.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
You can't get rid of Arias.
But if you turn on the kitchen light, he may skitter away under the cabinet.
It’s Advil and beef in the Texas Rangers, you yankee bastard.
- Nolan Ryan
I'm afraid he's like herpes
You may not see him all the time, but he ain’t going nowhere
by blakethegr8 on Jul 1, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd for truthiness
"LSJ is jealous that the M’s fans have a sucky team that they can whine and snark about. We’re stuck with a good team in first place." -- Adam Von Marriagesmasher
"I’m gonna go on record here and say a great many things excuse throwing a chair at someone." – D.A. Tron
oh great, bash the guy when he's not here to defend himself
I guarantee you Vlad doesn’t hit that Grand Slam without Spanish Jack’s moral support…
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Man there is some hate for this guy, i know he is not Cano (God Knows) but the guy seems
to try his best when he gets the chance, not much talent but probably a likable guy, so why the name calling? and yes i know he is really not needed on this team, why he’s still here i have no idea, I’m just asking why so vile, did he steal you parking spot or something?
Yeah, looking at it that way, Treanor and Molina actually might indeed make a halfway decent platoon
Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ve had a single true platoon under the Ron Washington regime, and I doubt he’s miraculously going to figure out the concept now.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
Ssh, lsj doesn't do truth
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Not a lefty/righty platoon though.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 2, 2010 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I assume Max goes down
but Arias has zero value to this club outside of pinch running. It’s a wasted bench spot as he’s hardly used anyway.
I’d send Max down and call up Strop. DFA Arias and call up either Boggs or Garko.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
We've gotten comfortable with Treanor and Max
but I think this is a decent move to make a marginal upgrade on defense. The lineup can carry Molina and Treanor just as well as Max and Treanor.
I seriously doubt they keep Max up here, though a role like that devised above by Adam would be a pleasant surprise if they ditch Arias.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
so, I guess the Rangers can get something for Ray after all
though it looks to me more like Ray is used to offset the salaries than any actual player value to the deal.
Still though, that they were able to use Ray for anything in a trade is surprising to me.
And Jamey included Main in his list. I do hope he isn’t the PTBNL… that would make this trade awful.
Clearly
Arias is the sparkplug to this team. Cut him now and our nosedive begins.
by icouldusesomebaseball on Jul 1, 2010 10:25 AM CDT reply actions
This would be funny
if there wasn’t a chance that second part might actually come true for some crazy reason.
Concur.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Bengie Molina
.610 OPS away from Pac Bell (or whatever the hell it’s called) last year.
.505 OPS away games this year.
He hits much better in SFO.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
He played there in spring training and was reported to be fine there
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 1, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought I heard about him playing some 1B in OKC this year as well, while Salty or Teagarden was there as well.
"Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for years. Chemistry don't mean [anything]." - Jim Leyland
Max hasn't been 90's Pudge
but he’s been better defensively than we were led to believe.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Really?
His passed ball rate is absurd, hes not throwing out runners and he has a poor game calling rep.
He seems to be exactly what I was led to believe, which I was trying to convince myself otherwise of last year.
Really?
BR has Max with 2 passed balls (happened in same game v Houston, I believe).
They also say Ranger pitchers have a 3.56 ERA with Max behind the plate and has thrown out 17% of base-stealers.
Treanor is at a 4.13 ERA with 29% of base-stealers thrown out.
That rep on Max was bullshit although I’d like to see more caught stealings.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Umbrella of Protection
nice to see it again…
"calmer than you are dude" Walter (Big Lebowski)
"Hello Win Column!!!"
by Arlington Stadium Legend on Jul 1, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
x
That rep on Max was bullshit
The rep that Max is a bad defensive catcher was bullshit?
Really? Based on his PB rate and cERA over the couple of dozen or so games he’s caught this year?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Am I missing something
because I only see 2 passed balls on his stat sheet for this year?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
How many WPs?
He averages 1 WP/PB per 16 innings, which is pretty bad.
I just want to be clear here…is it your position that Max is a good defensive catcher?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Did you ever....EVER...read where I said
that Max was a good defensive catcher?
No, you didn’t.
We were led to believe that he was one of the worst defensive catchers in the history of mankind and my position is that he wasn’t as bad as we were led to believe.
I’ve seen both good and bad from Max this year but that’s what you get from rookies.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
No
The worst defensive catcher in the history of mankind was Mike Lamb. Anyone remember that disaster?
Oh my god! What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?
-Wash
Yeah, that was bad.
Todd Greene says wassup as well.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
You know it would be easier
to look past his defense if his offense was so strong it made for a compelling argument to look past the defense.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
What were you expecting from
his offense, Cahill?
He has a .341 OBP this year (he had a .345 OBP in 2008). Those numbers should improve with more playing time.
He’s somebody who is going to get on base and given what he did in the minors (.398 OBP in 6 minor league seasons) he’s a young player worth keeping around in some capacity if they can get him 40 at bats / month this year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Yeah, we were "led to believe" that his bat more than made up for any defensive shortcomings
He’s been about as good a bat as Treanor. I’m quite surprised by that, but maybe having to focus so hard on being a catcher is hurting his offense. Or he’s not as good as we hoped.
Either way, you can’t say he’s been good defensively, and you can’t say he’s been good enough with the bat that he’s a plus for positional reason, either.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Never said he was good defensively.
With this ability to lie and mislead, have you ever thought about law school?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
I didn't say you said he was good defensively
You’re really reaching on this point, and you are the one misleading. You have been excusing Max’s defense for a long while now, good to see you backtracking on that now, if only a little.
I would have been happy with continuing to roll with Max and Treanor and giving Max time to grow, for the record. I am definitely not excited about Molina, but I can understand why the team might feel they need an upgrade in pitch calling, etc.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Haha
With your ability during a debate to avoid and redirect questions whilst name-calling, have you ever thought about becoming a politician?
I don't like having words put into my
mouth, lied about or having somebody purposely mislead what I’ve said.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
this isn't my place, but
Either way, you can’t say he’s been good defensively,
Is what t ball said, and I read that as a general “you” replaceable with “one can’t say…”
Don’t be so pissy
Then stop doing the wufdog routine...
…where you say people are wrong while refusing to say what your position is.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 1, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I said he wasn't as bad as advertised, Adam.
We were led to believe that he was the worst catcher in the history of MLB and while he has struggled at times…like almost all rookies do (Justin Smoak was terrible defensively early on)…he hasn’t been as bad as advertised.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
And this team was hurt exactly how
by Max being on this team the last two months?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
And at one point did the team say that MaxRam
was the worst defensive catcher in the history of the universe?
It's what we were led to believe,bb
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Where did someone say he was the worst defensive catcher in the history of MLB?
Plenty (not just here, but across MLB) have said they have doubts about him sticking at catcher because of his poor defense.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Exactly.
It wasn’t as bad as advertised which is something that can be debated but it certaintly didn’t keep us from winning games.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
I think it might be as bad as advertised
You’re exaggerating the advertisement. He may have improved enough that we could now say it’s now possible he could stick at catcher. Not enough for the present, apparently, or the team wouldn’t have felt the need to make the deal.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
"I think it might be"
…sounds very milquetoast to me.
There’s no evidence that Max’s defense has been costing This Thing games and Benji’s Caught Stealing rate this year sits at 23%.
If Treanor is hurt, I understand the move.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Milquetoast is much more appropriate than your lame attempts at certainty
where there is none. We do not know the state of his defensive skills enough to make an accurate judgment. If you want to pretend otherwise it won’t surprise me.
I do think that fears of Treanor going gimpy have something to do with this. I do think that Max is improving. I think that because if he wasn’t they wouldn’t have stuck with him this long and given him more playing time gradually. What the team does speaks volumes about what they think of his defense, and they know a lot more than you or I do.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I'm almost willing to rec that
There is not enough lawyer bashing on this blog
srsly, bunch of thieves.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Adam Von Marriagesmasher
doesn’t appreciate this
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Watching last night's game, I think Max made some seriously questionable decisions.
Normally it’s tough to determine whether a pitch call is good or bad, but he called for Beltre to throw a high strike with his fastball.
Given Beltre’s issues (up in the zone, difficulty with control), I’d expect the Angel’s offense to be sitting and waiting for a high strike to launch — and Max literally called for that.
Seeing him stand behind the plate and ask for a high strike was a blatantly bad call — Beltre’s strength is in groundballs and control and asking him to basically overpower a batter when they’ve seen 3 innings of mainly high pitches from him just seemed stupid.
And Max doesn’t look comfortable behind the plate. He lets routine pitches get away (sure, there’s not always advancement and sometimes no one is on base) but he looks bad back there ALOT.
His throws do not appear to have much zip or accuracy and I’d equate his throwing game to that of V Martinez or worse.
And flat out, his bat isn’t good enough right now to carry that level of defense behind the plate.
Final note: catcher ERA is crap.
he's been pretty bad, Josey
I’m a HUGE fan of MaxRam, and I’d rather see him play than Treanor or Molina, to be honest, but to say Max has been anything other than bad behind the plate is disingenuous.
He could get better, or maybe one believes defense behind the plate isn’t all that important so it doesn’t matter how Max is…but he’s been bad so far.
by elvis1isking on Jul 1, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I defended his defense a couple weeks ago...upon further review...it's not good.
Like Drew said, he can’t throw ANYONE out and he’s starting to stab at balls rather than get down and keep them in front.
I want him to succeed like you, but we gotta get real here Josey.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah..and I want him to succeed so bad...but it's time to put my Max-poms up and call it what it is.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Is Max killing us?
A .341 OBP for a rookie catcher isn’t terrible.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Wasn't talking about his offense....I like his offense.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Playing 2-3 times a week wasn't killing us and we
were developing a rookie along the way.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
That may be the thing to do
but you don’t shit-can him from the organization.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
And I also don't see
where Max was killing us.
We did pretty well in May & June.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Didn't say we should shit-can him from the org...
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Max got here in late April / early May
This Thing is 36-18 the last two months and no, it’s not because of Max. It’s just that what we have right now seems to be working well and Old School Brutha seems to be using Max like he should.
The big concern should be the number of IPs this bully has. Everything else seems to be working very well.
Treanor & Max made for a very good tandem and I’m not sure what Molina brings to the table unless somebody is injured more than we are lead to believe.
I said when Treanor was pinch hit for on Tuesday night (meaning that Max replaced him) that Wash was treating that game like Game 7 and then we found out that Treanor’s knee was jacked up.
I can understand organization reluctance to let Max catch every day and acquiring Molina at that point makes sense.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
how the hell is that going to happen with Salty there
and Teagarden in AA?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Max does not know how to catch, and at this stage it may be hard to get him to change his style
when it comes to blocking balls, he tries to catch them, more like a first baseman than a catcher, don’t get me wrong i am a fan of Max, but i think he is better suited to learn a new position or finally get him to catch the proper way.
I want to see a Smoak-Molina double play
Anyway, while this isn’t exciting at all, I’m not upset about it or anything. Unlike when it looked like we were choosing Lowell over Vladdy, we don’t appear to be passing on a bigger upgrade here. Pierzynski isn’t doing any better than Molina and Chicago’s revival probably took him off the board.. there just arn’t many options.
And since the salary is offset it doesn’t hurt the rest of the deadline. Although I did read on the giants blog that Bengie has performance incentives the Rangers will probably end up on the hook for.
So uh yeah.. alright, a little more depth, whatever. Go get Lee.
I actually think
a Smoak – Molina double steal could turn into a double play
Or in the event the Rangers are in a bases loaded jam, someone hits a sharp chopper to first, Smoak playing close to the bag gloves it, quickly taps the bag and makes an off-balance throw to Molina who goes to a knee, scoops the throw
and in the same sweeping motion of his glove tags out Derek Jeter
by oc on Jul 1, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I emphatically agree with this deal
so long as the prospect isn’t someone obviously good.
This team is really, really lucky to be where they are given that Matt Treanor has been their starting catcher so far this year. And while Molina’s #’s are pretty horrid as well – lets remember that catching is the one position whose defensive contributions are almost impossible to quantify. Note: difficult to quantify does not mean you should ignore them. When a player has a superb reputation for working with pitchers or similar, then in the absence of actual quantifyable data, you have to rely on the scouts and the qualitative perception.
I’m going to trust in Molina’s reputation here, and acknowledge the fact that we’ve all been lucky not to have seen the Max/Treanor platoon cost this team more games than it has. That was not a sustainable long-term solution for the season
As for Ray, I think he was overused the last three months and he wouldn’t have been nearly as “effective” (read, lucky) down the hot summer stretch in Arlington. He’ll probably post good numbers in foggy SF, making everyone mad, but it is good he was dealt
Go Rice Owls!
This part kinda swung my vote:
Manager Bruce Bochy, a former catcher, staunchly supported Molina, recognizing his value behind the plate.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Molina's value has never been in his bat
and teams aren’t paying routinely $4-$5 million a year for a guy with replacement level numbers at the plate and is so slow that he risks getting thrown out at first on singles to left. They are paying him because he has a reputation as a very good catcher. And hate it as most stat people do, until they can come up with some actual good way of quantifying the catcher’s defensive contribution to a game, we have to go off opinion’s like Bochy’s.
Go Rice Owls!
I am sorry to inform you guys
that Bruce Bochy is an absolute moron – if you’re hanging your hat on his opinion – good luck
I am a Dodger fan so I am very sorry to see Bengie leave the division.
He has the approach at the plate of a blind man drunk on tequila at a retarded pinata convention
If you don’t think the guy you had before was good at blocking balls/preventing wild pitches, wait till you get a LOAD of Bengie’s act. I see a lot of Giant games and there were tons of wild pitches that should have been passed balls – Benj must have been slipping the official scorer the fat ends from his pregame pork sandwiches
His rep as a good defensive catcher should have ended several years ago – you want to talk about “handling a staff” and “calling a game” thats fine – but by any objective measure he’s one of the worst players in the major leagues
That said, I’d love to see him succeed to make Giant fans unhappy and I’d like to see you guys beat the “LA” Angels
So good luck, but this was not a good idea no matter what you gave up…
by lchristmas on Jul 1, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
don't know how closely you follow bruce bochy but calling him a moron might be insulting the morons
also, he acts like an entitled baby if taken out of the lineup
a veteran presence willing to accept a role – he is not
And honestly,
I like this move even if Molina is nothing more than a Guardado-type player who hangs around and offers wise musings.
We got Ray off the team
And out of the Circle of Trust
"LSJ is jealous that the M’s fans have a sucky team that they can whine and snark about. We’re stuck with a good team in first place." -- Adam Von Marriagesmasher
"I’m gonna go on record here and say a great many things excuse throwing a chair at someone." – D.A. Tron
by WestTxAg06 on Jul 1, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
x
He has the approach at the plate of a blind man drunk on tequila at a retarded pinata convention
That’s quality work, sir.
I feel like we’ve had some Rangers hitters in recent years with similar approaches.
"LSJ is jealous that the M’s fans have a sucky team that they can whine and snark about. We’re stuck with a good team in first place." -- Adam Von Marriagesmasher
"I’m gonna go on record here and say a great many things excuse throwing a chair at someone." – D.A. Tron
Chris Davis says hi
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Yep
As does Hamilton last season, Blalock, and Kinsler at times.
I hate last season; I’m so glad we’re in this one.
Nobody trumped the Chris Davis
Epic Wall Shitting of 114Ks in 277 plate appearances.
Nobody.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Not arguing with you
Just saying we had a lot of players that looked terrible last season at the plate
You're going to be pressed
to find anybody in the history of MLB who shat the walls worse than Chris Davis last year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Well nobody has ever called you a flip-flopper, Jose
You want to further emphasize your point in reply to this comment?
Molina 2009 – OPS+ 86, wOBA .308
Davis 2009 – OPS+ 85, wOBA .311
Molina 2010 – OPS+ 71, wOBA .284
Treanor 2010 – OPS+ 83 , wOBA .308
yes, Bengie was a catcher (a bad one), but in terms of pure wall-shitting, offensively, he takes a back seat to nobody
and you have to take into account the sloth-like speed on the rare occasions when he does get on base
i wasted too much time on this already, peace out folks
wOBAr
Molina – .312
Treanor – .329
Ramirez – .307
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Davis came up
because of the “blind man drunk on tequila at a retarded convention” comp.
114Ks in 277 plate appearances can’t be topped.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
You're going to want a pinch runner.
You’re going to want him early and often.
In fact, you’re going to want said pinch runner to be able to run to first in Molina’s stead.
Also, considering Bengie’s propensity for “wild pitches” (check B/R for confirmation – he’s on a record pace this year) you may just want to hand your pinch runner a catcher’s mitt.
My condolences.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)
by victor frankenstein on Jul 1, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Giants fans bagging on Molina
I am sure there is some truth to this, but this reads a whole lot like Ranger fans bagging mercilessly on Barajas when we wanted Laird to get a shot at full time play. I think the anxiousness to get Posey behind the plate (understandable, to be sure) unconsciously colors the opinions of fans all too ready to wave bye bye to Molina.
At the same time, Rangers fans today are trying to feel good about the trade and it’s affect on the team’s division run and we’re likely to assess Molina a tad more favorably than 24 hours ago. The truth is likely somewhere in between.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
by t ball on Jul 1, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
Really?
Posey is a big part of it, but you really don’t need to look that hard at Bengie’s numbers to realize why Giants fans might want him off the team even ignoring Posey. He’s slugging under .340. His OBP is under .320. He has had so many passed balls and wild pitches that were really passed balls this year that it’s becoming a joke. He can’t throw anyone out. He is the slowest person alive. I can’t think of a single thing that Bengie has done well so far this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"Out, out, Fred Lewis!" - JCTillam Gamerspeare
Garner criticism?
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)
by victor frankenstein on Jul 1, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
go yell at your own fan friends for TOTALLY LAYING DOWN
in the Angels series(plural)
I hate the Dodgers now.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone think
Molina would get more strike calls because of his veteranness than Max?
i.e. “framing pitches”
I would think so, since Max is fairly terrible at it.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Chris Ray need not be pitching for us
JD was never going to be able to talk Ron Wash into not putting Ray in high-leverage situations because of how good (lucky) Ray’s results have been this year. His best option to force Ogando, O’Day ahead of Ray was to trade him.
Also, I think with Beltre, Ogando, Feliz, and others with Spanish as their primary language, it’s going to be very helpful to have Molina around to talk pitching strategy.
I’m fairly certain Max speaks Spanish, too, but Molina undoubtedly knows the game better, and can more effectively help these less experienced pitchers in b/w pitches.
Knowing that Wash can never again pitch Chris Ray in an important inning is the best part of this trade.
By a lot.
by philkid3 on Jul 1, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
approved
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm liking the trade the more I think about it.
Hopefully the PTBNL won’t come back to bite us.
Hopefully the PN (player named) won't be hired back to bite US.
We’re sweating the physical as we speak.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)
by victor frankenstein on Jul 1, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
What is the effect on payroll for this deal???
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
So no help to future deals based on budget.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
No effect, whatsoever, on payroll because of this trade
We’re in the same position we were in yesterday salary-wise
Thanks.
Perhaps JD is pondering including a C in any deal for Starting pitching. Salty, Tea, or Max would make a nice trading chip.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
whatever.....
just rearranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic.
Wash is an idiot....and umpires SUCK!!
Paging Dr. Negatron...
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Oh I get it
he means the Giants
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
ohhhh, yep, that makes sense now
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Molina is 225 lbs my ass
Maybe in 8th grade…
Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.
I'm going with two-fitty
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
awesome....
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, just like you in college...
;p
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
No, I was a machine in college...
I got fat after college.
Get it straight pal.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Duly noted.
lol
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
what kind of a machine?
I was an angry machine
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Bengie's in shape.
Round is a shape.
– CLANK –
OK, that’s enough outta me.
Best wishes. I hope Ryan’s offer is the winning bid.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
"...and is the reason 'why' really something we should be striving for?" - (guess who)
by victor frankenstein on Jul 1, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
great...
so he’s our replacement for Laird with fat jokes now?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the key to this trade is
A. we get cash (The difference in contracts), B. Molina’s experience behind the dish over the course of a season, and C. The splits against lefties 382/453/473
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
nevermind on A
just read that neither team will take on additional salary
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Jul 1, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Cot's
- (Molina) acquired by Texas in trade from San Francisco 7/1/10 (Giants to pay Rangers about $2M cash in deal)
- (Ray) acquired by San Francisco in trade from Texas 7/1/10 (Giants to pay Rangers about $2M cash in deal)
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Okay
Keith Law is doing a chat at ESPN at noon. Everyone go send him questions about whether he thinks game calling/pitcher handling in catchers has any value. I’m interested in his take.
And whether he thinks Chris Davis should be moved to catcher and whether he could be an All-Star caliber game-caller/pitcher handlerl
"LSJ is jealous that the M’s fans have a sucky team that they can whine and snark about. We’re stuck with a good team in first place." -- Adam Von Marriagesmasher
"I’m gonna go on record here and say a great many things excuse throwing a chair at someone." – D.A. Tron
nah
Davis should pitch
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
IMO it's about the catcher doing his homework on the opposing hitters night in and night out
they have the video/scouting reports for their disposal
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Jul 1, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Maddux is knowns as a savant when it comes to doing his homework on the opposition.
Definitely helps to have that cat in your corner.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
yup
that’s what pitching coaches do
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Jul 1, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
That's why Molina is so FAT!!!!
He stays up late and eats pizza and ice cream in to the wee hours of the night!
It explains everything.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
The McCovey Chronicles (SFG SB Nation Blog)
loves this trade (for the Giants)
The joy seems to stem from getting a useless piece the hell off their team so the young talent can start.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
I suppose if we had a top talent at C like Posey we'd want that too
(shaking my head in disgust at the names of Saltalasucksalot and Teabaggin)
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone think that
Treanor’s bruised knee may be worse than initially reported as a reason for this deal?
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
That's my guess
but he played last night.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Please, please
Please let Arias go now.
Please!
Nobody watches the Rangers. They strap themselves in and feel the Gs.
At worst, I don't think we lose much offense goign from Ramirez to Molina.
And I’m willing to bet this move is to get someone the Rangers thing is better at handling pitches. As long as the PTBNL is a nobody, I’m okay with this. And if the Rangers are right about their relative defensive value, it’s actually pretty terrific. The biggest concern for me was the money, but if the Giants are making it contract-neutral, cool.
Why do they want Chris Ray?
Ray may be the best they could hope for
in return for Molina. The Giants want Posey to be their C of the future and apparently the future starts now.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
Molina's wOBAr is .312
Ramirez has .307. Treanor, .329. The offensive difference is negligible between the three.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Yep
offensively they are all pretty bad, so you might as well get good pitcher handling, or good defense.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I missed who the rangers sent down last night when Beltre was activated
I was a Ranger fan when being a Rangers fan wasn't cool.
Harrison
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 1, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't know that re Matty Ice...hmmm.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
121 comments and not one opinion on Beltre! What's up with that?
He looked like a kid with talent in need of experience to me.
You can only be young once but can be immature forever!
The funny thing about his start
Is it is EXACTLY what I would have expected if Nippert had started. And, ironically, Nippert’s relief is what I would have expected from Beltre had Beltre relieved Nips.
Omah will be better next time out.
He looked just like a guy who’d been exiled from our country for several years without hope of ever returning, who was then granted access to the country, started pitching in the minor leagues, and 4 months later was pitching against a divisional opponent in the midst of a playoff run.
Hey wait a sec....I thought that was what happened?
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
I'm not sure what I saw last night.
It was a blur of bad porn in black & white, It’s A Wonderful Life, the 1980 US Hockey team beating the Russians, Clinton hugging Lewinsky, the Dellucci Double, Hillary in a bathing suit, the look on OJ’s face when pronounced innocent….
I’m not sure what that was or how to feel about it.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Hillary in a bathing suit
Aaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh. Make it stop. Make it stop. Think of something else. Think of something else
he looked REALLY good in spots
but it’s obvious he needs to develop more
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
this deal is good for both teams
Molina has a very accurate arm and will throw out baserunners. Unfortunately, he has started letting a lot of pitches go right by him, and he can’t seem to block pitches in the dirt any more. So that kind of cancels out his throwing arm. He would not have been resigned by the Giants to that ridiculous contract but for Tim Lincecum wanting him. He has become a whiner. You will find that slow doesn’t really describe him. If he had been content to be second string and pinch hit, he would have been a useful player. But he wasn’t, so he wasn’t. The Giants’ manager Bruce Bochy is to blame for not putting Bengie in his place, but the GM and Lincecum also bear the blame. He might be a useful platoon player and pinchhitter for the Rangers, but be aware that his stats are much worse recently, offensively and defensively.
I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my romosexuals flaming.--Homer Simpson
the extra player
Is it just me, or would someone like Lemon be someone the Giants could be interested in? Seems like they have alot of old people in that infield (didn’t even know Rentaria was still playing heh).
It's an A-Ball player
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 1, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
This is completely hypothetical, but...
If SEA insisted that Soak be part of the package for Lee, should the Rangers insist on adding Branyan?
"Hamilton, it's chalk, not coke, you don't have get tripped up by it"- kevinkinsler Jun 1, 2010
If we traded Smoak + Beavan + Font + x + y
For Cliff Lee and Branyan, I’d stop following the team for a few years out of disgust.
That would be an abominably bad trade.
but we can call Davis/Garko platoon back up!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
If you have Branyan...
you don’t need the CD/Garko platoon
"Hamilton, it's chalk, not coke, you don't have get tripped up by it"- kevinkinsler Jun 1, 2010
Hell no.
Justin Smoak is the George Bailey of Bedford Falls.
Without him, we’d all live in Pottersville.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
It's July.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
Ok...This was just a hypothetical
I’m not really in favor of losing Smoak. But, If I had to choose between Smoak, Perez, and Scheppers, then I could bare to part with Smoak, so long as the deal included a good return for a 1B bat. And what I saw of Branyan last season, he fit that bill.
"Hamilton, it's chalk, not coke, you don't have get tripped up by it"- kevinkinsler Jun 1, 2010
The fact that...
The Rangers don’t have to pay for Molina’s salary makes this a good deal to me. The Rangers needed to get rid of Ray, or at least send him down, because there are better options for the ’pen right now. So I see that as addition by subtraction.
Plus, maybe adding a veteran like Molina wil help the pitching staff and give the clubhouse the sense that this team is looking to add players at the deadline to help them win.
I agree that Arias should be the one to go, but like many others here I’m almost certain it will be MaxRam headed back to OKC.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I would like to retract this statement please.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I always figured that one day the Rangers would have one of the Catching Molina's
He was always good at calling a game, i don’t think he will be much help anymore with throwing out runners, 36 year old arm and all, and his offense, well thats likely gone as well, unless he can park one every now and then, his doubles will be singles, but if he can handle the pitchers i am all for this trade.
plus there's what, a 30% chance we have a Molina brother?
aren’t there like, 12 of them?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 1, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand....
why you would want max to stay up with a 3 man catcher rotation and get little to no playing time instead of being sent down and getting a whole lot more playing time rotating with Salty.
"Fuck those guys. They got lucky. I’m going to whip their ass the next time I take the mound."
The Giants SBN site...
sure seems happy to rid themselves of Molina.
"I'm pretty sure there's more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking. And I plan on finding out what that is."
Of course they are...
If Benji Molina was blocking our best prospect wouldn’t you be thrilled too?
I think the move works out well for both teams.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Comment from a McCovey Chronicles Member
I know nothing about your current catching situation, so I can’t say if this is a plus for you. I expect that 95% of Giants’ fans with some sense of statistics will be ecstatic about this deal. It’s not merely un-blocking Buster Posey. It is getting an incredibly unproductive offensive player off the roster. And in recent years Molina’s defense has been atrocious. Whether it’s the 50+ extra pounds he is carrying or advanced age, he is unable to block balls in the dirt if they are more than six inches left or right. He has also been a bad actor for the team, constantly complaining about being disrespected . . . even when the Giants parked Posey at Fresno to start the season. (Bengie was disrespected, I guess, because the G’s didn’t trade Posey away.)
This feels to me like a nothing trade for both sides (is Ray worth a darn with as many BBs as Ks?), unless the PTBNL (Michael Main, a 2007 No. 1 pitcher who has been sidetracked) turns out to be something. From all reports, the G’s are eating the difference in Bengie’s $4.5MM salary and Ray’s $975K, so no harm to the Rangers there.
The hardest thing to assess about Bengie is the notion (often mouthed to the press by the Giants’ starting staff, including Lincecum) is Bengie’s brilliance in “handling the pitching staff.” Always seemed like a crock of hooey to me, as I imagine that pitches are called by Bochy or Righetti (the G’s pitching coach) rather than the catcher. But who knows?
Don’t count on some big offensive surge on the notion that Arlington is better offensively than our park. For a right-hand power hitter, AT&T is actually not that bad a yard. And it has skewed as a slightly pro-hitter park since a year or so after its opening. It’s really only awful for a LH home run hitter.)
Maybe you guys will get lucky . . . maybe Bengie will want to show the Giants what they lost, and he will bring his defense back by actually trying . . . and will figure out how to hit again. More likely, though, he will be gone at year end with no effect other than increasing your GIDP (if he bats where anyone is on base in front of him). And you have the potential thrill of him getting thrown out at first base on a hit to the outfield. We’ve been waiting for that to happen for years.
by NiceGuysFinishEtc on Jul 2, 2010 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for coming over and posting this...
for the record, my above post was before I knew the Giants got Main. No longer do I feel good about this deal for the Rangers.
I’m not a big fan of Molina. I think he represents a marginal upgrade over what the Rangers have at catcher right now. However I thought the Rangers needed to get Ray out of the ‘pen before he cost them a game or two as well. What really hurt s is giving up Main, I’m a big believer in that kid, and I think the Giants got a steal there.
As you said, the hardest thing to judge in this deal is Molina’s ability to handle a pitching staff. If he does that as well as some have suggested it will help lighten up the sting of this deal for me. I’m certainly not expecting Molina to come over and put up anything offensively.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Sorry in advance...
because I’m almost positive that someone has posted this already, but I’d rather not go through every comment for one tidbit of knowledge.
Does anyone have an idea on when we can expect to see him in Arlington? I’m guessing tonight in LA is out of the question..?
actually, good question I haven't seen the answer round these parts today.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 1, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Commish hasn't approved it yet, last I read.
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Could a wide range of guys....
Fox Sports reporter Jon Paul Morosi writes this morning that the player to be named later in the Bengie Molina trade, which is expected to be made official today, will be a Class A pitcher. ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets (@Buster_ESPN) that the player will be a "mid-tier prospect." That would theoretically include candidates like Wilfredo Boscan, Jake Brigham, Fabio Castillo, Michael Main (who has been promoted to Frisco), Carlos Pimentel, Neil Ramirez, Braden Tullis, and Corey Young. Do not fear that a guy like Wilmer Font or Robbie Ross or Matt Thompson or Joe Wieland being part of this deal.
I would expect it to be a meh SP or a nice RP prospect.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Here comes Evan Grant talking about Max Ramirez and his CERA of 3.56.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/07/rangers-stat-o-the-day-356.html
Didn’t know the Rangers were 15-7 (.682) in the games Max started.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
cERA is one of the more useless stats available
And much more useless than a pitcher’s ERA, which is saying something
So with Bengie Molina
the Rangers would have been 18-4 in the games Max caught?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
how wrong you were, Dirkatron
It’ll be more than a Hamburger, obviously, but nothing that’s gonna make us orgasm in disgust and then puke on a fucking housept or anything.
the disgust fluids are covering everything
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
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