Is Mark Cuban's Stance Today on the Rangers Hypocritical?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2010 11:39 AM CDT
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PrintI'm trying to reconcile what is going on with the bankruptcy and Mark Cuban...
Here was what he said on the Ticket in mid-July, after basically asking the hosts to ask him about the Rangers:
Do I have to have (the Rangers)? No. Would it be nice to have? Only in the right circumstances. Do I want to try and subvert what Chuck and Ryan are doing? Absolutely not. I’ve made it clear to Chuck exactly what my motivations are and what my plans are so that I’m not trying to undermine him at all.
He followed that up with comments to Barry Shlachter of the S-T:
"If any group that I'm involved with did end up getting (the ballclub), we would certainly ask Nolan to be a part of it. And Chuck for that matter," Cuban told the station. "I'm hoping I'm more of a backstop than anything else. It really can be a good deal financially, but someone needs to be a backstop."
Then we have this from his attorney today:
Cuban's attorney, Clifton Jessup, attacked the new deal, saying that if the auction is held, Cuban would bid aggressively and possibly even beat the new terms. Crane's attorney said he has found new investors and is interested in making a bid, either alone or jointly with Cuban.
Jessup described the secret negotiations as an "October surprise" and said that even if Lynn doesn't approve the new deal, it will make an auction more difficult and "chill the bidding."
He said Cuban has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing his due diligence on the organization in anticipation of joining the bidding.
So Cuban has gone from "hoping" to be "more of a backstop than anything else," and not wanting to "subvert" the Greenberg/Ryan group and what they are trying to do, to arguing in court today that the Greenberg/Ryan group should not be allowed to buy the team without outbidding him.
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Wouldn't that make him collarless?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'd rather him collarless than popping his collar.
I absolutely hated that fad.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Agreed.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Only if he grew a mullet.
Business in the front, party in the back.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
so i guess its safe to say
any chances of cuban being involved with greenburg/ryan is out of the question. i wonder what the odds are, if he does somehow end up as the new owner, ryan agrees to work with him…
by mikeyoungfuturehof on Jul 30, 2010 11:49 AM CDT reply actions
It is kind of like when divorce attorneys say they hope your able to work it out.
by diamond_dave on Jul 30, 2010 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Cuban the new George Steinbrenner
I don’t understand why so many people have animosity towards Cuban. Look at what he did with the Mavericks after all. He took a team that was irrelevant and turned them into a contender with a payroll in the top 5 every year. If Mark Cuban gives the Rangers a budget thats top 5 I would take him over Ryan/Greenberg in a heart beat.
I will say this if Cuban somehow gets the rangers I can easily see him filling the void of George Steinbrenner by becoming baseball’s new bombastic Boss.
he's not going to put 200 million dollars in the rangers payroll
by rangersfan32 on Jul 30, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
It may not be 200
But he has a track record of spending unlike Ryan/Greenberg.
by Monkey Brain on Jul 30, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I can see what you're saying
In regards to attitude, at this point it’s either Greenberg, Cuban, or bust for me. I don’t want to see anyone else in it.
by rangersfan32 on Jul 30, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
GnR has no track record at all...
Either good or bad.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Steinbrenner wouldn't have done that with the Rangers, either
different market.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
The Mavericks are still pretty irrelevant
they are just a speed bump that the big boys have to get by to go to the finals. They’ve been more succesful since he took over but they still cant seem to be one of the elite
Kind of silly statement...
When you consider had the Mavs rightfully taken down Wade and the Heat this would not even be up for debate.
The Mavs have been a success one way or another since he took over.
by slimshadty12 on Jul 30, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I always say
the Mavericks won that series. When I die, I will know that the Mavericks won at least one championship.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
And
you will be misguided.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I'm not letting Stern and a rigged officiating crew take away a Mavs championship for me.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Yeah
I guess if the Mavs had manned up and taken care of business instead of spending all their time bitching, they might be more relevant now, but they take after their owner and they would rather bitch than perform.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
As much as I like Cuban for what he's done for the Mavs
I think this is exactly why he’s bidding. He wants to be the next Steinbrenner. He doesn’t care about the Rangers, per se, he cares about using them to become the new Boss.
and even if that's what he wants
He can’t achieved this so called goal without the Rangers being wildly successful. I don’t understand the “Well he isn’t doing it for the right reasons. He wants to make money, so I don’t want him”. Why can’t he want to make money and increase his fame and put a winning Rangers team out there? I still prefer Greenberg/Ryan, but if they are not going to win, Cuban is my next choice.
I think you miss my point.
I want a guy like Steinbrenner to own this team. I would like to see every mid-year trade followed up with, “sure the Red Sox got Josh Johnson, but he’s just going to sign with the Rangers in free agency at the end of the year. What a waste of prospects.” My problem with Cuban is that his need to be noticed has caused the Mavs some trouble, and I don’t want to see it carry over to the Rangers. I also don’t see how his actions could possibly make it anything more than extremely unlikely that Nolan sticks around.
Serious question.
Does the world end if Nolan leaves but JD stays? I’m still trying to figure out what value Nolan adds to this organization outside of the marketing angle (which Cuban can handle regardless).
This
I have wondered about this too. JD makes this happen, not some magical aura from his Nolan-ness.
If GnR wins
Will this damage their local owner relationship with Cuban?
Section 239, Row 1, Seats 1&2
+1
If anything, maybe it’ll make them compete and spend even more to win favor with the fans
Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya
by mayur.patel on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
people
who may want to watch the Rangers in HD after the contract with Fox runs out
Section 239, Row 1, Seats 1&2
I imagine it has something to do with the fact that its so close to the auction his thoughts had changed
Cuban saw a deal he really liked and was really close to having a great chance at completing and then all of a sudden it was yanked out from under him by doing stuff that could have been done 6 months ago and saved everyone the trouble.
basically he got his hopes up over the last couple weeks of owning the rangers (as a business venture not necessarily as a fan) and then it was taken away and given his personality he got pissed.
Not sure why...
…if this was such a good deal, he didn’t get involved over the winter.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
At the time the Rangers weren't in first place and in strong contention for the WS
A lot has changed since then. The clubs success being one of the major things. Buying the club for ~525 million back in December may not have looked so attractive as buying the club for ~525 million in July.
Well, he says he's not really a baseball guy.
He might not have realized just how good the Rangers were on the verge of being.
I don't think it's that , exactly.
It doesn’t take that much research to see the Rangers as a team that were capable of being above average for a good amount of time. I think the difference in expectations between then and now is seeing how the D/FW fans have responded to the success.
Attendance has been falling for so long now that it’s pretty interesting/exciting to see it all come back so quickly. I know a large part of it is tied to Cliff Lee, but the overall increase has to suggest that the Rangers are closer to the sleeping giant that many around here have suggested than perhaps the business analysts were projecting.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this
Cuban’s accelerated involvement has been a little perplexing to me, but recently I made a trip back to DFW for a weekend and I can say with certainty I’ve never seen more Rangers gear worn by people or being sold at Wal-Mart/Target etc than I saw this last weekend. There’s gold in them hills, and while I’m sure he was aware of it before, it’s only more impressive now.
kling klang king of the rim ram room
I bet he thinks there's a better chance of him getting approved now if he wins the auction
than if he was going up against Ryan, even if he had more money to offer.
Probably also thinks he’s just better equipped to play this game in court rather than through the MLB auction process
Did he recently gain access to the team's finances?
maybe he figured out that fiscally the Rangers are in better shape than he just assumed before?
Go Rice Owls!
This. Steve.
AJM’s whole post doesn’t take into consideration of Cuban having tepid interest, then deciding to enter full-force because the opportunity was presented (auction) then having it backdoored away. AJM’s blind hatred of Cuban doesn’t let him look at this objectively.
Replace Jim Knox
sometimes i wonder if "the ticket" doesnt just use lsb for their tickers
im sure they actually research the cowboys tho…
by mikeyoungfuturehof on Jul 30, 2010 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
it's very interesting that how often I read things here and
hear some of the same things mentioned by hosts and/or ticker guys….
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. George Will
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 30, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Re: picture
man, what a great face he has.
(Wife) "So what do you want to watch on the T.V.? UFC or porn?"
(Husband) "Hmm... well, porn, I guess."
If Cuban wants to get involved
I am fine with that as long as he keeps Nolan Ryan and JD in the mix. It’s because of their careful work (and certainly not becuase of Hicks) that we are in contention.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Do you think if Cuban comes in...
…and fights in court to keep Ryan’s group from buying the team, that Ryan is going to want to stick around.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 30, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Hell no.
Nolan is not going to play that game. Just ask Robin Ventura if he plays around.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
by Texfan1996 on Jul 30, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He could money whip him to stay around
by Monkey Brain on Jul 30, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Nolan doesent need money.
He has been very successful in his post baseball life.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Well he turned down A LOT more money
while he was pitching in order to stay in Houston and then turned down the Yankees in order to come to Texas. Have you read his books?
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Economics have changed since those days.
If someone offers Nolan 20-25 million or so to stay around I bet he would do it. Mark Cuban would want to save face on the situation and he has the assets to do it.
by Monkey Brain on Jul 30, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it explains his worldview pretty succintly, actually.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a realist there is a price to everything
by Monkey Brain on Jul 30, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure, that's your worldview
So it’s seems very real to you.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
No. Grammar, for instance, is priceless.
by Closure GT on Jul 30, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a better answer
Well played.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It is reality to today's generation.
Nolan is a throwback. If he shakes your hand and agrees to something he is going to do it. When Houston asked him to take a paycut so that they could make Mike Scott the highest paid Astro he said that he had no issue with Mike getting the best deal he could but he was not going play that game. He has stayed in Alvin even though he hates the weather because it’s home to him. When folks ask for his autograph he gives it with a smile.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
I think there's plenty of examples
Of people caring about things besides money as they age.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of...
LeBron James is at it again, folks, living it up in a den of sin, with an ESPN reporter taking notes, and then — it would appear — possibly pulling strings to get the story yanked. Oh, and then leaving the network, which grovels at his feet, to make a fool of itself by claiming that the story posted was an incomplete draft — none of which ever reappeared.
Link
There’s a link to the Deadspin who has the article in there…just makes him seem like a prat really…
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
He is a prime example of why I am done with the NBA.
It’s unfortunate.
"I don't really like pitchers." - Nelson Cruz
Currently reading
Only the story will not lose steam in Cleveland. The rage does not dissipate. When a fan showed up to an Indians-Yankees game on Wednesday wearing a LeBron James Miami Heat jersey, he was booed and heckled and taunted so mercilessly by so many hundreds of fans that he was escorted out of the stadium. Maybe the guy thought it would be kind of funny to tweak the Cleveland fans, to draw a little anger, to be the wise guy — some people are like that. And, hey, it’s just sports. He badly misunderstood. It’s not just sports here. This is no joke here. This is not funny here. Angry? You have no idea.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I would like to purchase a teleportation device.
Subsequently, I would like to buy you a new worldview, which I could then deliver instantly.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Hypocritical...
I think it’s pretty clear now that Cuban wants to be a part of This Thing. Allowing GnR to make a deal outside of the auction doesn’t afford him that opportunity as easily. He said that if he were part of a group that won the auction, he would ask Ryan (and Greenberg) to stay. What’s to say that said winning bid couldn’t just be Cuban on his own?
The question is how big a part?
I bet RG would perhaps consider having him join the group but not as a majority owner and there lies the rub. I can’t imagine Cuban accepting any offer that does not give him complete control of the team.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Seems like maybe he just changed his mind?
Early on thought it was a neat idea and then when he started really pursuing it, fell in love?
Yeah
I don’t see how this isn’t the more reasonable conclusion.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I mean, they are very similar conclusions
I think the issue is do you think Cuban has done anything wrong here.
Not at all.
I’ve actually been swayed to want to see him end up with the team. I think he’ll be a better owner overall. No checking with the investors every time you want to raise payroll. As long as he keeps JD, I’m on his side.
is a fan of Cliff Freaking Lee!
I don't even know that he didn't have this plan all along
but was open to pairing up with GnR and then probably got rebuffed by them
This
Of course, none of us know what happened behind the scenes. But it is certainly possible that Cuban offered to pair with GnR.
If they told him that they didn’t want him as part of their group, then I don’t blame him for going alone – this might be his best/only chance to get an MLB team. And they might not approve him even if he wins the auction.
I just want this damn thing over (and a new owner who keeps our management intact). Losing a bunch of our scouts and JD would be depressing (Nolan less so, but I hope he sticks around).
Who knows
Maybe he approached the different groups and they didn’t want any part of him? So is it really his fault to then go in on his own? Just on possible scenario. We don’t have enough information on what happens between the different parties.
A blind hatred post. Not AJM's best reason for posting something.
More for him to vent his irrational dislike of Cuban.
Replace Jim Knox
As much as I don't understand
AJM’s disdain toward Cuban, this post can’t really be called a criticism. He is listing quotes and objectively summarizing them.
Is there any reason that we should care one way or another
if Cuban or Ryan/Greenberg wins this? There is no clear suggestion either way that one group or the other would be “good” or “bad”.
Sure, there are rumors that Cuban may pair with Gilbert, who most of us don’t want; but if we want to be picky, GnR’s finances and maneuvering through this whole debacle haven’t been anything to write home about either.
Go Rice Owls!
Hadn't thought of whether this debacle should reflect poorly on GnR.
Hard to know how how much blame falls on them…
Quite a bit, actually.
Tried to go a backdoor deal publicly. It went public and they clung to backdoor specifics.
Replace Jim Knox
The owner with the most money is
not always the best one. Just look at the success we are having. JD and Nolan did this with a cash strapped owner. They need to stay!
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Answer to your question: no
It’s not like circumstances and information available to him haven’t changed between mid-July and now.
Adam, it's all about posturing
Cuban couldn’t just come out like a bull in a china shop. He approached this exactly the right way. His final position had to come to light today to avoid losing a chance to bid.
Without all the facts, it is hard to blame Cuban....
We dont know if he approached GnR about partnering up or not.
If he didn’t, then it seems he was just trying to get a foot in the door smoothly with the fans/media before dropping the hammer….not a nice move but not something uncommon in huge business deals
by death of the cool on Jul 30, 2010 12:48 PM CDT reply actions
I think Cuban probably just hates getting end-run at the 11th hour.
And this, apparently, is “classless.”
But his getting end-run is Greenberg's response to getting end-runned by the auction after winning the bidding last winter...
Not sure a bidder that sat out the original sale process has much room to complain here.
As said in my other post
One of the biggest issues at hand is that the initial bidding was run unfairly and that there was insider type deals (that just got removed).
Is a whole different ballgame now that it is transparent (public), and more than enough reason for a sidelined bidder from the initial round to now get involved.
I think Cuban has wanted it the whole time...
And was playing pr games so that if he won he wasn’t greeted with hostility as the guy who booted out Nolan. He said all the right things, and he’d clearly love for Nolan to join up with him, but none of it matters if he loses the option to bid. He wants to win, if he does then the fact that he originally said he’d love to be with Nolan/chuck softens the blow to the fans who were sold on that pair.
my better is better than your better.
by rangerjake on Jul 30, 2010 1:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Tell that
to George Steinbrenner and Jerry Jones.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
Had Hicks
not continually remortgaged the franchise to buy other acquisitions, he would be doing fine with it.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
And had you not picked the owners of two of the most successful franchises in recent history,
your example wouldn’t have helped your point either.
If I had a billion dollars and wanted to turn it into two billion, a sports team would not be on my list.
by Closure GT on Jul 30, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and you can lose money with
any business if you hopelessly mismanage it like Hicks did.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
From the land, no?
IIRC, the current valuation of the team looks decent right now as far as return rates go since the market crashed a couple of years ago, but as far as long term investments go wasn’t such a great return (especially when lots of owners appear to run losses even without going Hicks-crazy).
The ROI may not be fantastic
But I’ve heard he’s still making tens of millions of dollars from someone who knows these kinds of things… That being said, I haven’t talked to that guy since this new package has been proposed
Yes, hypocritical.
From the Greek, hupo-cratos. It’s was a theatrical term meaning “to speak from behind a mask”. Actors would hold masks in front of their faces and speak from behind those masks.
From what I’ve read, it sounds like Cuban is guilty of it. But aren’t we all, to some degree?
hold debt
I’ve heard from reliable source, who’s been right on everything so far including 6 months ago saying cuban would try to buy in a b/k, that cuban holds a substantial portion of the debt. Would explain why he wants to maximize the bid. Who knows if true, but this source hasn’t been wrong. Hicks hates greenberg and is friendly with cuban.
Jack Daddy
by Jack Daddy on Jul 30, 2010 1:19 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Cuban holds some of Hicks debt?????
would not surprise me. Is this an illegal conflict of interest???
no conflict
Like I said, who knows if true. I find it hard to believe it would stay quiet. But I keep hearing it. No conflict. Lenders credit bid all the time. No credit bid here because lenders don’t want to extinguish claim. Still have stars as an asset. Probably 10 people know every fact and truth here. The tell all would make a best seller.
Cuban wants this for the same reason cg does. To develop a regional sports network (rsn). I know cg’s plan is to have it established by 2014.
Jack Daddy
by Jack Daddy on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Who are you?
I have a hard time believing you have inside sources who say this is partly Cuban’s debt and that you know CG is wanting to create a regional sports network. And you post this on LSB? Sounds fishy, sorry but…
it's Jack Daddy.
"Sometimes you just want to sit back and watch somebody throw 100." - Jeff Passan on Neftali Feliz
"Baseball's all that's real" - JB
by Cecilio's Guante on Jul 30, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
As to cg's plan
To start a rsn, check out their ppm for their equity raise. It’s floating around town. As to the rumors I hear, I said who knows if they’re true. But like I said, they’ve been right to date. I was mentioning Cuban 2-3 months ago. I work with people who live and run in certain circles. I’m just a nobody, trust me.
Jack Daddy
So Cuban's only interest in the auction is to make Greenberg have to pay more?
I don’t see it making sense for him to actually buy the team at an inflated price if he’s one of the bigger debt-holders.
not that simple
I presume it has a lot to do with “shuffling paper”.
If Hicks hate Greenberg
That is just another reason for me to want the team to go to GnR.
Cuban get out of the way
Go work on getting CP3
bancruptcy is fluid
He wants to be a part of an ownership group (hence the earlier quotes), but couldn’t reach terms with Guns ’N Roses so he wants to purchase them outright.
I’m an apologist.
------------
:) - Obligatory smiley showing I don't mean whatever mean
spiritedness is likely contained in the preceding post
If anything is hypocritical...
……. it is all the baseless Cuban hate. Cuban is the ANTI-TOM HICKS and thats what everyone wants right? Its sure as hell what I want
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