Rangers/M's trade talks "heating up"
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 7, 2010 11:59 PM CDT
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PrintBoth T.R. Sullivan and Jeff Wilson are reporting that the trade talks between the Rangers and M's about the possible acquisition of Cliff Lee are heating up.
Both reports say that Martin Perez and Tanner Scheppers are off-limits, with Wilson saying that Alexi Ogando is approaching untouchable status.
The M's want catching, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia is mentioned as a potential trade chip, although he obviously wouldn't be the major part of a trade. Chris Davis is also a name that both throw out there, with Sullivan also mentioning Justin Smoak.
Sullivan mentions Derek Holland and Blake Beavan as pitchers that the M's would have interest in...trading Holland to Seattle would make me very, very sad.
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So then
you don’t want the trade, AJM?
Or would you rather give up Scheppers? Between Perez, Holland, and Scheppers, I think we are giving up the right guy but I really can’t say I love one guy over the other 2. They all hurt.
I'm more emotionally attached to Holland than Scheppers
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
me, too
but if push came to shove, Scheppers has the higher ceiling.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
yes
ground ball tendencies, maintains velocity pretty well. Is named Tanner Scheppers
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Shiny New Toy Syndrome.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Scheppers/Beaven/Beltre, Adam...
Do you do it and is it even in the ballpark?
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm just curious...
what he thinks.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
He already...
agreed to a Cliff Lee trade tonight.
Baby steps, man.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I probably would
Though it would hurt.
I think it is in the ballpark.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
If that doesnt get the deal done there is no way i even talk anymore...
but i wouldnt even do that
say it with me everyone…3 month fucking rental….
are we really going to be dumb enough to give away a TORP potential guy (in AAA) no less, a guy who has decent potential, and doesnt walk anyone so i love him, and our best position prospect who is a 5 tool guy who is starting to blow up….for a 3 month fucking rental
jesus we’re dumb as shit if we do this
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
by Horns130 on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
3 months...
And the post season. And it’s Cliff Lee. It’s not just some guy.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions
what's our % increase of beating the Yankees with Cliff Lee
vs. Without.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Robbie...
did a post on this. I’ll find it.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions
7%
he basically said Lee improves our chances by 7%
I'm not naked Cartwheeling for 7% GoET
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Going from...
33ish to 40ish percent is actually not something scoff at in these prediction models.
Also, if the Rangers did advance, they’d have an even bigger percentage improvement in a seven game series where Lee might go three times.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree that going from 33 to 40
is much more meaningful than going from 0 to 7.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
pretty sure
he took throwing Lee 3 times into account.
And it isn’t something to disregard, but it also isn’t something that we should overpay with prospects for because we’re broke-ass either.
Oh...
yes, you’re right. That’s for a four game series.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
True
but 1/3 to 2/5 isn’t that big
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Not just the Yankees
we have to get over our mental block about this team. What is the % difference between facing the Yankees and any other playoff team?
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
if it's the Rays, not much
if it’s the Twins, quite a bit.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
How much is quite a bit?
Is it more than our chances with or without Lee vs. the Yankees? I’m playing devil’s advocate here, but really, I just want to make a marginal increase in the Rangers chances no matter the opponent if the cost is not too great. The Yankees have weaknesses, they are not invincible.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Here it is...
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions
something that I don't think he considered
Seems like the Rangers play quite a bit better at home vs the road, if getting Lee adds 2-3 wins during the regular season, but those wins make the difference b/n the second seed vs the fourth seed – then I think that has extra value.
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
It would make a bit of a difference, yes.
It’s not just the Rangers, teams play better at home than on the road. But in a playoff series, it’s just one extra game. Not meaningless, but not huge.
Lee will be the top rated FA available this year theres almost no question about it
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
That's good to know
Unfortunately, Yankees first round pick won’t be very high, but a 1st-rd pick nonetheless
The 1st 15 picks are protected anyway
So no matter what we aren’t getting a high pick as compensation. With Lee we could potentially have 5+ 1st round picks next year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Shit
at this point we dont even know if we’ll have an owner at that point…
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Shudder
I would not want that to happen.
by JoeyJoeJoeJr.Shabadoo on Jul 8, 2010 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions
call me crazy
I would probably give up one of Holland/Scheppers/Perez to get Lee here, but I don’t want to be giving away a bunch of secondary pieces in addition. The thought of providing a stud to Seattle is bad, but the thought of giving a stud plus filling several other ML roster spots cheaply is too much.
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
Glad to hear that Perez,Schep, and Ogando wouldn't be apart of it
I’m okay with Salty even those he’s coool. And Davis and Holland I’d just have to hope don’t pan out until they leave Seattle heh
dang I really don't want to do this dang trade with the M's
but hopefully it isn’t some killer trade for them if so. still..blah.
I'd swallow hard if
The Dutch Oven goes away.
Fuck Salty & Crush but losing Holland would leave a mark.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
by Josey Wales on Jul 8, 2010 12:04 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Cliff Lee for Holland, Salty, Crush...?
Probably not…only dumbfucks give up LH pitching that’s worth a shit.
Salty, Crush, Beavan, Engel Beltre? Sign me up…Jack Z needs offense, not pitching.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
And I'd give up Salty, Crush, Scheppers, Beavan
with no remorse.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
I want to physically slap you
but I can’t; so mentally: SLAP!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Hellz yes.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Do you have a set of tits and your own blog? Those are the only Ranger fans I know who think that way."
I'd swallow hard
and say yes. I’d offer Hunter Davis Salty first and see if they bit. They wouldn’t, unless it’s July 31 and no one else has offered more. But really, three major league ready players, not a bad offer.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
It's unrealistic to
expect the price to be less than painful.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I wouldn't give up anyone
contributing to the big club’s success. I’m glad I’m not a GM.
That's why they call them business sox
I'd def do that trade
But, if Hunter throws up the starts he is, Lee isn’t doing much better.
That being said, Crush and Salty are borderline dead to me, so I’d do it in a heartbeat
Hunter isn't very likely to continue putting up a >2.00 ERA though.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
keep in mind Hunter has been getting some ridiculous run support
avg of 7.9 runs/game
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
NO
that is not a neighborhood we need to hand Seattle. I want Cliff Lee but not at that price. If they can hijack someone else so be it but the Rangers shouldn’t pay through the nose because we lack money or because Seattle demands it.
I don't think...
that’s really paying through the nose.
Paying through the nose would be Perez/Smoak/Beltre
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Well duh
but that’s still a hella large package for a 3 month rental
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Scheppers and Beltre is paying through the nose to
me. Beavan is going to eat innings in the mold of Hunter. Scheppers has #2 potential and Beltre’s lottery ticket looks better by the day. I’d give up Font but not Scheppers and certainly not Holland as some people have mentioned.
And Cliff Lee...
is Cliff Lee. It’s going to suck when you hear who the Rangers gave up regardless because it’s going to take good prospects. But, it’s for Cliff Lee! If it’s not too much, it’s worth it.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
You wait to make the deal
and see if Seattle blinks. You don’t offer up your best package right now. Espeically before Holland and Harden come back and you see what your rotation looks like after the break. Is Cliff Lee great? Absolutely but you don’t need him to win the West. You want him for the playoffs and paying early now may cost a heck of a lot more than paying later. Especially since there’s not guarantee he’ll pitch great in Arlington where he’s been terrible.
I agree with you...
Don’t give up until you are absolutely sure you’re getting the best deal and if that never comes, then don’t do it. JD has shown that he is willing to be patient. I suspect that will continue to be the case. However, if you can stomach the deal at the end of the day, I think you do it in this case for this player.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I fear Nolan is forcing JD to acquire, though
Last time JD was forced to make a trade, we got Brad Wilkerson… just sayin
That wasn't a bad trade though...
At least not in theory.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference between paying early now
and waiting till the deadline is what 3 starts?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Something like that
plus three a month of salary and any potential health issues that may arise for whatever reason. 3 or even 4 starts won’t break the Rangers but it may thin out the potential buyers field and reduce the price because I don’t think Seattle can hold onto Lee if the Rangers try to lowball him.
Given our schedule...
I’d want Lee before we play Boston and the Angels again…
Considering we open with Boston next week
after the break I don’t think that will happen from a salary standpoint at least. Texas will not pay top dollar. They can’t afford to. So they’ll wait.
We can dream...
Though, I could easily see us go into a tailspin after the ASG with our brutal schedule.
Would having a legitimate TORP help staunch the bleeding? Perhaps.
I don’t think it’s worth panicing and grossly overpaying (ie two top-tier prospects in a package for Lee), but I could easily see how the Angels have made up a lot of ground by the end of this month…though they’ve got to play Boston & us too in that same stretch.
We need to stop
treating the Angels as some sort of super team. They’re really very mediocre this year.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just took 2 out of 3 from us...
I just can’t rationally understand how the Angels are still around…but they are.
Until they are mathematically eliminated, I would fear them.
and making a trade
based on fear is a bad trade to make.
whoopidty doo
they took 2 of 3 with their best pitcher starting in their park, and they won by 2 total runs. We also swept them in our place and they’re staring at a 6 out of 7 losing streak in the face.
You don’t trade for players to put down your fears. If you think you need Cliff Lee in July to be competitive, you’re probably not a contender anyways.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Life as a Rangers fan...
Yah, that pretty much sums us all up, no?
speak
for yourself.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I am not a fan of antlers
they are terribly repugnant to my fashion sense
by Telegraph on Jul 8, 2010 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's dumb
you’d be overpaying to matchup against 2 teams in July.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Yep
Having Lee atop this rotation would be about as sweet a scenario as you could hope for. Whatever happened over the next few years I’d savor the next few months. That is not too high a price to pay for how awesome the next few months could be for the fans, the franchise.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Lee is not infallible
if we get bounced in rd 1 anyways, I’d say it sucked quite a bit.
Since you guys were all over tx, how much do you think adding Cliff Lee improves our chances vs. the Yankees?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Not a huge amount
granted, but I’m all for marginal gains in this area. Of course Lee is not infallible. But the odds are he’s less fallible than Lewis or Wilson. And Scheppers, Beavan, and Beltre are all at least as fallible. I would cry to give them up, but I might do it.
As I said elsewhere, I’d first offer a package like Hunter, Davis and Salty and see if they acted the least bit interested. Three major league ready players is nothing to sneeze at, even if the ceilings aren’t as sexy as Scheppers.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I wouldn't even bother with Hunter
Jack Z. has spent the last month acting as if he doesn’t have to deal Lee, and so far no one has bit.
Now there’s a copious amount of stuff, mostly probably coming out of Seattle, of supposed packages and still no one bites. I don’t think Lee gets a Teixeira package, I don’t even think he gets a Sabathia package.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
What if you could have it for the next few years?
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
So Lee is like cocaine?
Am I allowed to say this?
Yes
Lee is the quantity for which I am willing to set aside (a little bit) my sabermetric understandings of value, etc. I think that sabermetrics underestimates the value of playoff contention, and playoff wins for an organization that has been there rarely. Actually, for many Rangers fans of a younger generation, basically has never been to the playoffs.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
3 months of Lee isnt worth losing Holland, Perez, Scheppers, Ogondo, Beaven or Smoak
to a division rival withot a long term contract extention. Especially with what Newberg said about the posibility of not getting 2 first rounds picks when he signs with the Yankees.
by Linedrive222 on Jul 8, 2010 1:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Beaven?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
See also Ogondo
and why come Felisn’t isn’t in there?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
Ogondo os tho horbrongor of tho opocolopso!
/BogStovo
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Explain this rapomatic
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
bogstovo
is the east german non union equivalent.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I mean did I miss another Big Steve moment?
I require recaps.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
no but they're
all so uniquely hilarious
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Meh. It wasn't too groundbreaking. He just can't seem to spell apocalypse right... Even when making fanposts about it.
It’s borderline amazing, considering nearly every web browser has built-in spell checker.
He’s such an amazing fountain of stupid, though.
“Spelling? That shit aint nuthing but Maths pussyer little bruther!!!” Big Steve says, right before applying ax body spray to the pits of whichever Affliction t-shirt he happens to be wearing at the time and then chugging a Smirnoff ice.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I felt like being an ass
And when I feel like being an ass, I do it, and I do it with typos.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
'nly because I'pve never heard Feliz mentioned
Feliz is like Elvis UNTOUCHABLE
by Linedrive222 on Jul 8, 2010 2:09 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not really sure...
why Beaven is on your list of untouchables here.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Cause he doesn't exist.
He’s like Neftali Perez.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
weird spelling semantics
BeavAn not BeavEn
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess that reflects how I value him...
I haven’t even bothered to learn how to spell his name correctly.
Also, I just think of him as C-Wun. That’s probably odd, cosmically.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions
ya think if you ever met him you'd say, "what up C-Wun, how's it hangin?"
I imagine you saying that to him, and it makes me chuckle.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd totally fucking do sayings on it.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
get your ass out here
I’ll buy my Arias cutoff sleeve shirt and hang out with him and Vlad; you kick it with the Beavar. I bet you have more fun than I do. I bet you go to strip clubs and eat fancy buffets, and I have home cooked meals from the Dominican.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I bet he'd just end up spending the whole night icing me.
But, yah.
C-Wun parties don’t seem like they’d stop.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you dont know how bad i wanted to do that
every time i saw him charting pitches in frisco
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Well, I was fighting for the "don't touch The Pentagon" side of the argument as hard as anybody last night.
But if Beavan or even Ogando could get it done then I’d probably do it. Beavan for sure.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
well, yeah
but itd obviously depend on what else is in the deal still
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I said Beavan/Davis/Salty.
Throw in Beltre if that will get it done. If it takes more than that then I just walk.
They absolutely can’t have Smoak/Scheppers/Perez/Holland.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
I would cry for days
if the Dutch Oven gets traded. I’ve got WAY too much money invested in autographed memorabilia & rookie cards.
She say she are the manager.
by rockin_rangers on Jul 8, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Hate to see Dutch go
I’d actually rather it be Scheppers than Holland.
After the show I want Greg Oden to tuck us both in and tell us stories about the old days. - Will Ferrell
by JukeboxJoe on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Holland/Feliz/Scheppers/Perez are off limits.
If it takes any one of those then I don’t make the deal, it’s that simple.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Likewise
Just because I still think it’s unlikely Scheppers is a starting pitcher in the long-term.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
Healthwise?
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
I don't want that either...
I just want Cliff Lee.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
value
fucking value…why have so many smart people on this board just completely forgotten the concept of value
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Perhaps...
you are undervaluing what Cliff Lee would mean to the Rangers this season.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Certainly Possible
but i think you and some others overvalue it due to the fact that all you see is Cliff Lee without looking at the bigger picture involved
I guess on my end, im looking at whether the improvement this season is worth the cost in 3+ seasons, and i just cant find a situation where the cost would even out
3 months….
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
We are arguing about the relative value
and it is not that easy to ascertain.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
by t ball on Jul 8, 2010 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
what?
my armpit?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I’m afraid of who else we’d have to thrown in to get the Mariners to pick up salary too.
After the show I want Greg Oden to tuck us both in and tell us stories about the old days. - Will Ferrell
by JukeboxJoe on Jul 8, 2010 12:08 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I may not be fond of how Smoak is playing right now
but the kid will be an all star someday. Trading him to the M’s just assures it will be with them. I am up in the air about Holland.
Dont say that about Holland
I got ripped up & down by saying that I have more faith that Harden will be back before Holland
by Linedrive222 on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No, you got ripped
because your explanations for that faith were so lame.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
and pants on head retarded
you don’t get ripped unless the pants sit on the head.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's like dreds!
But for stupid people!
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 8, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If it came right down to it and those are the pieces being talked about...
I could deal with a Beavan/Salty/Davis trade. But that is IT. That’s as high as I go. They don’t get any of The Pentagon. They can go screw themselves as far as I’m concerned if that’s what they want.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Then you're not getting Cliff Lee.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Fine with me.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
The thing about Cliff Lee is...
…you go get him because you want him to start games 1/4/7 in the playoffs.
Put Cliff Lee on this team, and I feel real good about how we match up with anyone in the playoffs.
No Lee, and we’re rolling with a Colbyashi/Wilson/Hunter playoff rotation.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Who in that rotation scares you though?
I understand that Cliff Lee is better, but I think you have a pretty good chance with all of those guys.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
A surefire quality start from a true ace >>> "a pretty good chance."
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
There's no such thing as a surefire quality start.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Cliff Lee is better at baseball than Colby Lewis, CJ Wilson and Tommy Hunter.
This really shouldn’t even be a debate.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I didn't say he wasn't.
I said there’s no such thing as a surefire quality start.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
of course not
but it’s all about matchups.
Lee gives you a better matchup.
That said, I’m not in favor of giving up high upside arms for rentals.
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes he is
but he doesnt guarantee anything
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
don't be dumb
yes they were. that’s why they traded for him last season.
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
that doesn't have anything to do
with whether or not they felt like they could if they needed to.
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah. I guess Charlie thought their chances were the same with Blanton
against the Yankees then throwing Lee out there again. Despite everyone else talking about how he was the best pitcher of the post-season
no, not really
that’s a silly leap to take.
You’re reducing how Manuel chose to navigate the series.
Bullshit
that is one of the dumbest things ever posted on this site…
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I kinda seem that way dont i...
but im really not
i do however loathe the idea of us giving away our talent that weve worked so hard to acquire and build
wed be turning Seattle into one of the best farms in baseball
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Ummmm
what the fuck does that have to do with this year
that was a pretty stupid fucking comment to
we could beat NY without Lee, and we could lose to NY with Lee
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I agre with getting the guy to start games 1/4/7 in the playoffs
but it should be games 1/4/7 in the playoffs for more than just this year if your giving up the top guys
by Linedrive222 on Jul 8, 2010 2:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
and see, I love Big Game
I agree Lee is an upgrade, I TOTALLY do. But I just love Big Game.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Then who is?
I’m as big of a prospect believer as anyone, but you have to win sometime.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I think this team can go just as far with him as without him.
I honestly believe that.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Really?
You think the Rangers are as good as they can be, and that adding a TORP would not improve them?
Really?
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I don't think that adding a TORP gives us any better chance of beating the Yankees and representing the AL in the World Series.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Because I don't think the Rangers are good enough to take the Yankees in a 7 game series.
Cliff Lee or no Cliff Lee.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
But that doesn't mean
He wouldn’t give them a better chance.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
This is stupid.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
So you think that Colby Lewis is as good as Cliff Lee then?
Or, more importantly, you think that Colby Lewis + CJ Wilson is as good as Cliff Lee + Colby Lewis?
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
I never said that.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Then explain yourself.
Because right now, your argument is pretty flimsy.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Already did.
I don’t think that the Rangers are good enough to beat the Yankees in a 7 game series. Cliff Lee or no Cliff Lee. That’s my argument.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
So...
What would the odds be in a 7 game series between Texas and NY, without Cliff Lee?
100-1?
200-1?
And then with Cliff Lee?
The same?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't give you the exact numbers, but it really doesn't matter.
Cliff Lee improves your odds, but Cliff Lee can’t pitch every game, only 3 of them. Somebody else is going to have to pitch the other 4, and I think those matchups favor the Yankees.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Well that's what everybody is assuming so I'm just going with that.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Yep.
Cliff Lee improves your odds
That’s all you can ask for. Thanks for your courage in proving our point.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
so does a lot of other available pitchers
Maybe not quite as much…but it wouldn’t hurt as much in the future either for our team or giving them to a damn division rival
I don't think it matters if you're just going to lose to the Yankees anyway.
And you just gave up one or more of your best prospects to do it.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Well
You’re acting as if losing is the only option.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
OK.
The Yankees are going to be really good next year. Fold then, too? Why even play then?
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Because the Rangers are just going to continue to get better.
Ownership will be finalized at some point and there will be an infusion of money so we can bring in free agents. Our young guys will continue to develop and contribute at the major league level. I’m not suggesting giving up. I’m suggesting being patient for a little bit longer. Hell, this team as it sits might just surprise people this year.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
by TXHC on Jul 8, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But by your logic, they'll still be a step behind the Yankees.
Might as well burn down the ballpark, since it’s a given that the Rangers will lose to New York, regardless of the team’s makeup.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Again with the putting words in my mouth.
I mean seriously, all you need to do is read the comment. The meaning is right there.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
"the Rangers are just going to continue to get better"
I don’t think you can assume that.
Right now we are rolling out 2 MVP candidates in the middle of the lineup, certainly can’t expect better production in the future than what we are getting from Hambone/Vlad.
Right now we have a dominant, lights out bullpen, those things are fickle, it could be a weakness in years to come.
A lot of times young players get better, but a lot of times they don’t.
I don’t think you can just assume that the Rangers will have a better chance in the future to win it all than they have right now.
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
ugh
how is it that you and the others that are on the trade for Lee side makes these kinds of assumptions and statements but refuse to acknowledge the other side of this where Lee just falls apart for some reason on the rangers…injury…random bullshit, anything can happen
there are no guarantees on any front
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
You are acting as if...
…it is a given that you are going to lose to the Yankees.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
May not even face the goddamn yankees.
by Black Francis on Jul 8, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Ummmm
and some of you are acting as if it is a given that we lose without Cliff Lee…neither is correct
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
People want the Rangers to be leaps and bounds better...
…than they were in the late 1990’s because of what they saw go down with NYY. The thing is, the Rangers were a very, very good baseball team who ran into a team for the ages. The Yankees aren’t that good anymore. And it’s not a given that the Rangers will even face them.
I don’t think they should stand pat but I don’t think they should give up a lot of the future for a rental, either. There are other pitchers who can be had for less and who are still very capable of helping what appears to be a very good Rangers team.
by Black Francis on Jul 8, 2010 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this take
i just dont believe the price for Lee will be reasonable
The yankees are very beatable
our pitching is good enough to hang in there against them, and their pitching isnt exactly lights out
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
The Yankees
have the second best offense in the league and have 2 fantastic lefties in Sabathia and Pettitte.
They have weaknesses, but they’re also the best team in the majors this year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
I agree
but they arent super duper amazing for a variety of reasons
they are better than us, but not by a good margin
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Lee
(who has dominated the Yanks) gives us a better chance to beat them.
by behindthebag on Jul 8, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Anything can happen in the playoffs
in a short series, anything can happen
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
yeah forget him man
Why everyone wants to give the fn mariners top prospects for a guy who hates Arlington and is only under contract for a half a season more is ridiculous.
He's a really, really good pitcher
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
fine
we’ll be a better team for the next 6 years for saying no
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
As much as I've preached about protecting the Pentagon
I’m pretty ok with losing Holland, all things considered.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
lol.
Of course you could deal with that. It’s total shit.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd throw in Hunter.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 8, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Fine, we can grant your release to LookoutLanding, too.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 8, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No chance in hell.
Put Feldman in Hunter’s jersey and send him.
I hate you.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions
What is Beavan's celing supposed to be?
Tommy Hunter? Derick Holland?
by Linedrive222 on Jul 8, 2010 1:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Without the awesome sideburns
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
You see what Jeff Niemann is doing this year?
Think that, with a lower walk rate.
I think that’s a pretty good comp.
If you wanna go old school, I like Brad Radke and Bob Tewksbury, too.
Blackburn is a decent comp, but more as a baseline than a ceiling, imo.
I think Beavan’s got a good deal more ceiling than that.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
I'm higher on Beavan than most, too
His low walks/homers have been absurdly consistent.
If he can ever make his slider back into a K-pitch, he could be a #2/3 or higher
If his slider turns back into a K pitch, he's Ricky Nolasco and/or Dan Haren... that's a little too much to ask for, imo.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Volstad
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
I still love him though for his command
I think with our defense, a guy who doesnt walk anyone has a little more value
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
LOL
I guess we could give you a couple of our spares + 1 prospect for Cliff Lee.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
I'd include him
if it meant keeping Holland.
by behindthebag on Jul 8, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Because he strikes guys out
does a decent job of not walking folks, has good stuff and fair command.
And we tend to look at the peripherals before we look at ERA.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
and I get all of that, but to me Scheppers is the keeper of the two
not to say Holland isn’t going to be a nice 2 and a 1 in a lesser rotation, but I just don’t get the sense he is a true TORP down the road…..knowing full well that LHP’s tend to have a better success rate at RBiA. Although I would love to be wrong if he stays here.
what's your reasoning for that?
I love Scheppers as well, he’s the rare high K, low BB, high GB guy, but Derek Holland has some advantages as well like handedness and injury history.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Holland's recent injury history seems worse than Scheppers
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
The catastrophic stuff scares me more than the 15-day kinda stuff, even if Holland's stuff is more recent.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
That's the problem with prospects
their weaknesses becomes more exposed and tangible when they come up to the major league, so these weaknesses become more “real” to you. When a prospect is the in the minors, it’s much easier to ignore their weaknesses because you can’t really see it. Scheppers has his own problems with command right now; it’s a lot harder to visualize what that means compared to say, Holland’s HR issues, but that doesn’t mean Scheppers’ weaknesses are less problematic than Holland’s.
are you crazy?
Holland has had some big time games against good teams in the MAJORS, I love Tanner and don’t want to trade any of them, but Holland has Lee potential
by blueballlefty on Jul 8, 2010 3:04 AM CDT up reply actions
right
so to increase your odds, keep ‘em both along with Perez. deal Ogando. talk about how you won’t deal him and then deal him instead.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Because we've seen brilliance from him against good teams in his short time at the major league level.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
True
But we have also seen a guy struggle to develope a plus change up…..yes that could still come, but at this point I am not keeping him off the table in a possible Lee deal.
Tanner Scheppers
also does not have a quality changeup.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
They're young pitchers
if they had 3 quality pitches, they’d be young ML pitchers or Martin perez.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Maybe I am more enfatuated with his plus power stuff and GB rate.
I get the feeling if he misses, it will be down in the zone. With Holland I feel that his (really nice) stuff has a greater tendency to miss up in the zone.
You
have never seen Tanner Scheppers pitch have you?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
yes video of a backfield session from this past ST
Granted it was not in person, but his hammer curve was outstanding. Sure he has such a great fastball that he will challenge guys with, so I guess he could miss up in the zone. But I like him challenging guys up more than Holland which is what I guess I am trying to say. I am sure he has developed even more this year briefly in Frisco and OKC. Like his ceiling more than Derek’s.
If I may be frank
this is a pretty dumb way of making decisions about prospects. Scheppers at his best is probably better than Holland at his best, but it’s really not for the reasons you seem to think.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
People are starting to base their decisions solely on ceiling too.
It’s really an illogical way to think about it…mainly because you’re discounting the other key component (floor).
especially with guys with injury histories.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Floor in this case is pretty good for Scheppers
and I think the injury thing seems kinda overblown. If he pitches 100 innings this year without a problem is he really a signficantly higher injury risk than any pitcher?
Maybe
but shoulders are scary, and not having that shoulder history is better than having it.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
doesn't Hollands shoulder scare you a little?
Hey Tom - It's over now, so do you know how - to pick up the pieces and go home?
well, again I have seen Scheppers a Lot less than I have Holland.
So, I am not going to sit here and pretend to have a great handle on how he attacks hitters just yet. But what I have seen looks like it could be ace stuff. Holland at his best looks to be a slight notch below. I think we agree on that. I do feel a little dumb for saying a power pitcher is going to miss down.
Scheppers.
The following could feasibly happen:
A. His shoulder explodes.
B. He never takes to starting, whether it be because of poor command, stamina or whatever.
C. He ends up in a late inning role.
With Holland, you pretty much know you’re getting a major league starter. The only question is what caliber of starter he’s going to be. It really amazes me that people who have been clamoring for the Rangers to get sum starting pitching are willing to deal Holland in order to gamble mightily on Scheppers.
I too think that Scheppers shouldr could confine him to a late innings guy
I don’t think that JD and Co. are going to give up on Feliz as a starter down the road just yet. They owe it to themselves to find out for sure. I agree that it would be hard to cut bait with a Lefty starter. Point is if I’m Jon Daniels and Holland’s name comes up on the phone with the M’s I am not hanging up. Might not do it, but I would listen and cosider it.
We have spent a lot of time
saying very little, Sean Bass.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
the point is to discuss and curse when it’s appropriate.
Take a position, what’s the worse that’s going to happen? We’re going to kill you for having opinions?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I think I have been somewhat clear that if a gun was to my head I would take Scheppers over Holland.
God what a stupid opinion
I am going to find you and do unspeakable things to you.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
That's not the point I'm arguing.
Although I would tell Zoinks to fuck off if he asked for Holland. I’m arguing your assertion that Scheppers is the keeper over Holland.
And I personally think it’s more likely that Scheppers’ questionable command keeps him from being a starter rather than his shoulder.
interesting thought
though I’d argue that Scheppers relatively short history as a pitcher of any kind should make us hesitant to say that he even has questionable command. How long has this guy been pitching?
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Scheppers could
be Juan Dom, Volquez, Hurley
MLB hitters can hit fast fastballs a lot further than AA or AAA hitters can
Holland has shown he can get ML hitters out
by blueballlefty on Jul 8, 2010 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Good thing he has other pitches, then
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
he misses up in the zone
at least that was the scouting report earlier in the season.
That’s what everyone is referring to…
you've gotta give him some more time to be able to adjust to the Majors
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions
The guy has barely a year in the big leagues.
Can we please give them some time to get it together before we cut bait and ship them off? I’ve seen this before and it doesn’t end well.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
You know what also doesn''t end well??
the playoffs when you don’t have a horse atop the rotation.
White Sox in 05,
Rockies, Cardinals, Angels and Rays all say you’re wrong.
And the Jake Peavy Padres, the Johan Santana Twins, the Jason Schmidt Giants all say that you’re double wrong.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Hell look at the Phillies last year.
Lee, Hamels, Pedro, etc…and all they got was a smack on the ass and a “thanks for playing”.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
They made it to...
Game Six of the World Series. I would take that if I knew that were the final destination for this Rangers team.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
but you dont....
and if you want to play that game…
would you still take it if Holland turned into an all-star for Seattle, Beavan turned into a solid #3, and Beltre started looking like that awesome 5-tool potential that he has
and then next year we had none of those b/c we opted for a 3 month rental rather than 6 fucking years of everything else?
it is like logic leaves the brains of this crowd when the name cliff lee is written
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
that's apocalyptic too
I’m against the deal as rumored now (it’s many rumored variations), but it’s still a pretty big stretch to think Beavan turns into anything more than replacement level starter (or a decent 2 inning reliever) or that Beltre does jackshit with his incredible tools.
Im sure the braves said the same thing about Elvis...
and i like beavan a lot more than most on here
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
no, I don't think they did
say anything like that at all about Elvis. In fact, I don’t recall anyone saying anything remotely close to that.
Elvis had zero makeup concerns.
Right
I’m sure that the Braves knew when they traded Elvis that he’d be an All-Star a few years later with an OBP near .400. Gotcha!
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
If the Rangers made it to game six of the World Series...
Yes, I would.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Understandable
But i also dont think Cliff Lee is the magic piece that gets us there
i think we have a great chance without him. I think the truth is that it would mostly come down to luck with or without Lee. Do we get those breaks to fall our way, and are our hitters hitting their stride when the series starts.
Also, i think a big part about this is age…im willing to be patient and see a dominant rangers team for the next 6+ years rather than going all in and cleaning the kitchen this year
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Cliff Lee
takes us from being a probably playoff team to true playoff contender. What he costs in a trade is what determines if he’s worth it or not. Most of the deals proposed here are probably too low, which means most of us are going to be at least a little unhappy with it.
Somehow, I have a feeling we’d forget it by August though.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Again
I think you guys are oversimplifying all of this
ultimately, Cliff Lee wont decide what happens in the playoffs, most of it will come down to random factors and luck…and those same things can fall our way without Lee
but yes, i agree that Cliff Lee improves your chances, that isnt really debatable
but i cant foresee a scenario where 3 months of Lee trumps what we would give up in a trade
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
If it would guarantee us a World Series then I could see it.
But that’s the thing, it doesn’t. It doesn’t even guarantee we’ll get out of the ALDS, or even make the playoffs for that matter. Not saying I don’t think we’ll get in, just saying. People act like getting Lee guarantees playoff success when that just isn’t the case. It’s still a huge gamble considering the asking price.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Depends what you give up, no?
I think part of where you might be getting hung up is understanding that talent distribution is not anywhere close to even, it’s a normal distribution. That means that pitchers like Lee are extremely rare compared to the pitchers in the rest of the league and are thus worth a lot more than just 2 Justin Masterson’s.
While we often talk about the ceilings, or say the performance you’d see from greater than 1 standard deviation above the mean projection, from these prospects, you also have to realize the likelihood of reaching them is small. For every Elvis, there’s even more Borbon’s’ and Harrison’s; for every Borbon, there’s even more Teagarden’s, Salty’s, and Davis’s.
While that’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison (talent distribution across a league vs projection of talent for a single player-that’s probably a bit different distribution), it’s important to consider what the most likely scenario is with these guys as well.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
3 fucking months....
and i understand everything that you said
but it doesnt mean that i cant cherry pick how the trade would work out either
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
What if someone said you get to the series this year or you win the series 2 times in next 6 years?
Do you sell your future for a run this year?
It's weird
When he was a prospect, we were told that his changeup is his best secondary pitch. He also said repeatedly that his changeup is his best secondary pitch.
Yet somehow it’s not
It's got really, really good movement
and good plane. It just wasn’t well commanded last year.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
"Just wasn't well commanded last year"
Oh, no problem. I’m sure the command will come…it always does right? No big deal.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Actually that seems to happen
with many pitching prospects. As they develop their stuff/body/release/mechanics change and their repertoire evolves. Even after they get to the big leagues guys are adding/deleting pitches or changing grips.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Holland looked like he was starting to figure things out...
I don’t think the Rangers should be giving up pitching when Lee’s going to walk at the end of the season.
I’d offer Salty, Beaven, Davis, and Profar/Beltre
Of course you would.
And you’d get hung up on.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I think part of the rationale is that...
…they feel he is going to be one of their top three closers come playoff time, and may be closing next year.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure that's what it is
But does that make somebody untouchable?
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
If you are trading for Cliff Lee...
…you are doing it because you want to win it all this year.
If you think Ogando is an integral part in winning it all this year, it makes it a lot harder to part with him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand
going for it this year.
The Window is open thru 2011 and then we reassess.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Now run along, my question was for Jamey and not the diminutive, sawwed off little twerp from Arkansas who no longer sees the team up close."
Scheppers might be able to do the exact same thing this year.
If it keeps Holland or Scheppers in our system, let Ogando go
by rclarkjd10 on Jul 8, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
you don’t post here enough these days.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
it's not like we don't have some hard throwers
Strop and Omar Beltre along with Scheppers could factor into the bullpen. it’s not like our bullpen is a weakness where a guy like Ogando should be untouchable
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
You think all Ogando is
Is a “hard thrower” and there’s little difference between him and the other guys you mention?
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Ogando isn't going to protect
Holland or Scheppers.
He’s the “plus” in the discussion. Only, he’s apparently off limits, so the “plus” moves to other prospects…
Well
I don’t know about “a lot.” I mean, it’s all about what the net gain would be for this year. Don’t know what that is, but I suppose it matters more what the Rangers think it would be.
by brettgardner on Jul 8, 2010 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
ahhhh
so maybe Cliff Lee walks, we insert Feliz into the rotation, and Ogando slips into Feliz’ spot, with Strop, etc. filling in for Ogando’s slot?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:20 AM CDT up reply actions
CWS 5, LAAA 2.
5.5 game lead in the West.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Trigger pulled.
"Don’t want to spend my night waiting in line unless it’s for more beer."
--EssBee, on LoneStarBall, Jan. 21, 2010
Sweet...
Let’s give JD a call and OK him to speak to Dr. Z.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
As I said in the other thread, I'm on board.
It would hurt like hell, but I could live with that.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
The only thing that would really hurt there for me is Schep
giving the Mariners a very good bullpen arm
Yeah...
of course. He’d be the centerpiece. And he has a chance to be really, really good. But, I’d give up that chance for something special and Cliff Lee is special.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Im saving these posts
for when we still lose in the 1st round….then…
Cliff Lee leaves us at the end of the year, which he will…then
Scheppers wins 6 games in one season against us for the Ms, allowing a total of 1 run, Beavan walks 0 guys in 6 starts against us, and Beltre becomes a 30/30 guy
i just cant bare the thought for a rental…can we find someone who has some kind of team control available…
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Awesome...
I’m glad you’ll be able to gloat about the Rangers losing in the playoffs.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Ugh
not the direction im going with that
im just providing the alternate (and still more likely) scenario. Cliff Lee doesnt guarantee shit…and that is all im saying
we are just looking at this in a different way…its understandable
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
And I'll save your post for when
Scheppers blows out his shoulder, Beavan can’t miss enough bats to become more than a BORP, and Beltre fizzles out before he hits the majors.
I’m not saying I’m for making that trade, but my scenario is about as likely as yours.
Exactly
Both are possible…Id rather take my chance this year with what we have (which is really fucking good) and then also take our chance the next 6+ years with our young cheap as shit talent
it is all in the perspective…and i agree that it is far from an easy decision to make
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
+1
I’m more in Horns corner than against it, but by his logic we’ll be the greatest team in the history of baseball soon. I can only imagine what he thinks of Martin Perez……
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
I know
Im arguing the extremes of the situation b/c it better suits my stance, and i more or less have to since apparantly we’re the world series favorite with Lee
if the other side is going to take an extreme stance, it forces me to do the same…but all the same, im being on the extreme side when i make my argument, i cant disagree with you
that said, when it comes to the big 5, it isnt at all outlandish to say that they will all be stars
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Saberminds out there help me now...
because the emotions are pulling really hard. Does it really make sense to give up so much talent for Cliff Lee?
Signed,
Scared of a BIG trade
"Do you understand probability theory? Yes, I do. The Rangers will probably lose."
I'm a bit shocked at people's trade proposals...
But I guess we get Cliff Lee’s Type A picks at least.
"Do you understand probability theory? Yes, I do. The Rangers will probably lose."
Seattle wants two bats
Trade Salty, Chris Davis, and Blake Beaven to Seattle for Cliff Lee.
Bring up the rest of the kids to the big club by August 31: Perez, Holland, and Scheppers.
Frankie Rodriquez started 2002 in AA and did not make the Angels until September 15th. He was post season eligible due to an injury of another player. He was 20. In Game 2, he pitched like Carl Hubbell against the Giants, throwing 26 pitches, 22 of which were strikes to keep the Angels close in a game which they eventually won by a final score of 12-11.
Fernando Valenzuela was 21 when he pitched the Dodgers to the WS championship in 1981.
He also was the NL Cy Young Award winner that year.
Rookie Ervin Santana came in from the bullpen in Game 5 2005 ALDS vs the Yankees and, replacing an injured Bartolo Colon in the 2nd inning, pitched the Angels past the Yankees and into the ALCS vs. the White Sox.
2003 Florida Marlins boasted a 20 year old right fielder by the name of Miguel Cabrera and had a pitching staff of Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis, and Brad Penny, all early twenty somethings.
And let’s not forget a Brian Doyle replacing an injured Willie Randolph and shredding the Dodgers pitching in the ’78 World Series.
You play the kids, you strike oil in Arlington.
yeah too easy
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
i wanted to reply
but there is no point
"Diving stab by Andrus, gets up, throws.... GOT HIM!!! An unbelievable play! From short left field!"
-Eric Nadel on 5/17/10
by Jason Brynsvold on Jul 8, 2010 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't know TR Sullivan posted on LSB
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 3:01 AM CDT up reply actions
It's close
Really close. You have to start taking into account things like window of this team, how good teams like the Yankees will be in October and in the future, the importance/value of being a true contender in the playoffs vs just being there, the revenue generated from the playoff games and future ticket sales from a deep playoff run, etc.
I think the biggest thing to remember is what the JD-led, coffers-full, FO could do in a loaded draft with 3-4 first/sup round picks.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Lee sounds worth it to me...as many have discussed already...
1. The considerations you mention, like the potential for the best-playoff-run in Rangers history.
2. The added value of a better team legacy.
3. The obvious entertainment value involved with Lee’s addition…versus another scenario where no-trades happen.
"Do you understand probability theory? Yes, I do. The Rangers will probably lose."
just got to DC...stupid houston weather
anyways, this is awesome. A Rangers win. An Angels loss. Lee might be had without including Scheppers/Perez/and now OGANDO! I like that they used the word ‘untouchable’ with him. Me likey.
oh, also, stupid time change.
USA
so in conclusion
we want lee but we aren’t trading: perez, scheppers, holland, smoak,
Add Feliz and you have the Pentagon
and now it seems that Ogando is the sixth member of that five man group.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
yep
give us lee now seattle! just don’t think you are getting any prospects that somebody might want. chris davis doesn’t suck! we promise. and salty, he works REALLY well with the pitchers.
I think we'd all be ok
With Ogando as the best piece. We’re just a bit more concerned with a Holland, Ogando, Beltre type package.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
the Orioles better roll over and play dead these 4 games.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
Carrassco, Knapp
Marson and Donald. This is where the conversation starts.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Why?
Philly was getting 1 1/2 years of Cliff Lee. Any team that gets him this year would be getting 1/2 year. Seems like the Sabathia trade would be the precedent to start from.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
If I'm JD...
I let Jack Z know the best we can do is CD, Salty, Beavan, and Beltre.
I’d try to hold onto Ogando, Font, and Hunter. But if I had to put one of them in for Beavan to get the deal done, then I’d do it.
Perez, Scheppers, Smoak, and Holland should be off limits.
Probably doesn’t get a deal done with the M’s, but that’s the highest I’d go for 3 months of Lee.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
That was my package from earlier. The one i'd get hung up on for offering.
But there’s NO way I’d include Hunter. He’s our best pitcher. We need a Game 2 starter.
That's silly
And I love Tommy Hunter
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
Ridiculous
You’re getting a likeable personality and shiny ERA confused with a true No. 2 pitcher.
Colby is a great No. 2, CJ a great No. 3. Lee is a great No. 1. Combine this offense and bullpen with that…you could have some magic.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
So
what exactly is Jack Z’s bargaining position when dealing with us? We’re now 5.5 up in the division, the Twins are now 3rd in theirs, the Reds are late comers and Tampa always talks but never bites the bullet.
What can he say to make us overpay? That he’s going to get 2 extra draft picks next year? I think it’s much more important for Seattle to make the deal than it is for us right now, I’d sit back and wait.
Also, holy shit Ruben Amaro sucks as a GM. He gave up Cliff Lee for Tyson Gillies, Phillipe Aumont and JC Ramirez.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 12:35 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll never be able to believe...
that he just called up Dr. Z and said, “Do you want Cliff Lee?” and that’s all he wanted.
How the hell did that happen?
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
he got heady
thought he could do no wrong after that Ibanez contract worked out for one year. For some god-awful reason, he thought getting team controlled Joe Blanton was more important than having Cliff Lee for a whole season
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I just wish...
JD’s phone number had been on his speed dial first.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Why we had no money
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
For Lee...
for pennies on the dollar, I bet they could have made it work.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously
And that point, take out a freaking loan from you neighbor or something.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
He traded Lee so he could give Halladay the extension, right?
Stupid binary GMs
No
he traded Lee so he could give Blanton the extension.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
He gave Blanton an extension
that’s about 1 million away from Lee’s salary for this year.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Well
Supposedly he traded Lee in part to get prospects to replace the ones he dealt for Halladay.
Or something.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
He did a really awful job then
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
but hilarious
how soon before he’s fired and working for the Astros?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
If you're a Phillies fan?
You’d wish for December 15, 2009.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Long before Howard gets done making $25 million/year
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Wow
I have a feeling this article was put out there for a reason… One, it tells the Mariners what they cant get, and makes it clear to the league what we can do financially…
With Perez and Scheppars off the radar, you have to put dutch in a deal to get lee… And I think when JD sais that Ogando is quickly approaching, that tells me that they want the Mariners to bite at him to offset keeping Dutch. But, I would be surprised if he moved. He is to solid in the pen now, they need the stability.
So, with what TR gives us, I think this is the deal you make to Seattle.
Dutch OR Davis, Salty or Beltre, Beavan OR Ross
Seattle should ask for Dutch, Beltre, Beavan.
At the end of the day, I firmly believe JD will say no, you will get Davis, Salty, Beavan, Font/other low ball arm, or we will go get another middle rotation guy who will be solid for us.
I think Seattle in the end is going to look at what Texas can offer, and admit that it is the best group of prospects one could hope to get at the trade deadline. Look at what the Braves got for Teixeira to the Angels for his three months, VERY little of signifigance. I realize you have to compensate for money, but not that much. Our future is worth more than three months of Lee, and JD knows that.
"Hey Sanka, you can pee now... uuummm, too late...."
This used to be links to my websites... But the man got in the way, shut them all down... Damn the man...
Rangers Game Streams ~ Password: LSB123
by FormerLSBUser on Jul 8, 2010 12:36 AM CDT reply actions
AND
Let me add this… Font is becoming more expendable by the day. Feliz and Ogando look like the real deal in the pen, sell high on Font, I would be perfectly fine with that.
"Hey Sanka, you can pee now... uuummm, too late...."
This used to be links to my websites... But the man got in the way, shut them all down... Damn the man...
Rangers Game Streams ~ Password: LSB123
by FormerLSBUser on Jul 8, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't believe the Rangers would be selling high on Font right now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
And neither is he expendable
That’s just crazy talk.
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
At the end of the day.... Nolan Ryan will be the next control owner of the Texas Rangers Baseball Club.
by bigoil on Jul 7, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
by Brian Thomas on Jul 8, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You do know that Font is 6-8 years younger than those two, don't you?
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
At the end of the day.... Nolan Ryan will be the next control owner of the Texas Rangers Baseball Club.
by bigoil on Jul 7, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
by Brian Thomas on Jul 8, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah, i misread it as Ogando and Beltre
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
At the end of the day.... Nolan Ryan will be the next control owner of the Texas Rangers Baseball Club.
by bigoil on Jul 7, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
by Brian Thomas on Jul 8, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
There are so many other teams who will be after Lee
I think it would take more than that to get it done, especially when the Rangers cannot pay his salary.
by Black Francis on Jul 8, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Every team in the league can be after him
and it wouldn’t matter unless someone was willing to overpay.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
simple matter if economics
More than one team competing for one player could, but not necessarily, inflate the price.
by Black Francis on Jul 8, 2010 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions
You think that only the Angels wanted Tex
From Atlanta? That only Milwaukee wanted CC from Cleve?
It’s also kind of weird to me how so many people continue to definitively say that Texas “cannot pay his salary” like they know what the Rangers budget is. They cut back on the draft, they said they’re doing nothing in Latin America, and they’ve said that they have set aside funds for the trade deadline.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not definitively saying that they’ve got the ability to take on money, just that I don’t think anyone can say that unless they’ve got access to the club’s budget.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Cliff Lee
would be a most excellent way to spend the J2 money.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Sheesh...
so now youd actually be trading away even more prospects if you did that…whatever we trade, and more young talent there
do some of you guys have terminal cancer and are going to die within the next couple years?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Sorry
but i dont think that many teams will be interested…i think the correct number that will show legit interest is less than 5
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I said less than 5
i think teams that make offers that interest Seattle is a max of 3
i make my offer and dare someone to beat it
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
All you really need is two serious bidders to drive the price up.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 8, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
That depends on a shit ton of variables
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
This, people. This.
I think it’s much more important for Seattle to make the deal than it is for us right now, I’d sit back and wait.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
And he'll be gone...
There are half a dozen teams ready to trade for him.
really?
who? because everything from the Twins says it ain’t close. Everything from the Rays say they haven’t had these conversations.
The Reds? The White Sox? Yeah these teams are out there, but they’re not going to act pants on head retarded. Unless someone blows the Ms away, we’ll get a chance to match, and if someone blows the Ms away, I want nothing to do with that deal anyways.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn straight.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
There is a report...
…that the Twins offered Hicks and Ramos.
I have my doubts, but if that’s true, that’s going to trump anything we’d be willing to offer.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 8, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Bill Smith
and gang have been pretty much all over the Twins broadcast network saying that it’s a OR in there, and not an and.
Apparently, the best the Twins have offered is Hicks/Ramos and Slowey.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Then just say no?
i just dont understand this concept that we have to have cliff lee, and have to beat every offer for him b/c we have to get him
we can say no right? Do we forfeit the remaining season if we dont acquire Lee…am i missing something?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
We are going to win this division with or without Lee, it sure would be nice to see Holland and Harden come back and see what we got before we make a trade.
I think 1 of them is going to have a great 2’nd half.
No, you're spot on and the failure to realize this is driving me batshit crazy.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Hicks and Beltre
What’s the difference between the two besides national perception? At the same age, Beltre is hitting better at a higher level, but doesn’t have near the walks. Does hitting at the higher level offset the walks?
So if they are the same, an equal offer from the Rangers would be Beltre and Hunter?
wonder what Parks would say to this...
IIRC, we haven’t seen his grade for Beltre on BBTiA yet, and we’re heading into the top 5. I could be wrong, but I think that’s correct.
And to Tex, the walks (or lack thereof) are a serious concern. The hope is that as he ages and matures, the walks will come.
Better tools across the board?
I call b.s. on this.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
As do i
Beltre is the rare 5 tool type
and sorry, but an 80 arm isnt exactly the number thing i want a prospect to have
nice, sure, but are you going to take an 80 arm over any 70 plate tool?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Yep
the onus is on Jack Z, not on us.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
The longer we can wait the better
The risk is that some GM wants him NOW and is willing to pay the price. OTOH, all the other GMs know that there are several other SP options out there, and that Oswalt and Haren could top a rotation, too.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I don't see Friedman or Bill Smith as that guy
like I said, maybe Jocketty does it with Yonder Alonso or maybe Kenny Williams throw in Gordon Beckham. If that’s the case, we’re not going to match that package regardless.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Alonso isn't looking that great anymore
1 scout said he’d take Francisco over him and that not a good thing.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
that's
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Juan Francisco?
What happened, did Yonder eat himself into Angel Villanola (hey, remember that guy?)
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Juan
and Alonso has a .695 OPS .401 SLG in AAA this year
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Hmmm
interesting. Now I’m struggling to think of a package the Reds could put together, cause Alonso<<Smoak for me.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Jocketty and Williams
are definitely two guys I could see throwing the kitchen sink at Seattle. If they do, oh well, move on, definitely don’t want to outbid them in that case.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Holy shit I completely forgot about Jocketty.
They have Mesoraco too.
He and Willaims
they’re the guys that can blow them away.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
It would make sense too.
Alonso’s value’s shot and he’s stuck behind Votto, they just drafted Grandal so Mesoraco will probably be surplus to requirements, and Jocketty will look at his rotation and get a instant semi over the thought of Lee heading it.
If they're in
we’re probably out, right?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
It would almost be a relief
if the Reds offered some ridiculous package.
I’m slight nervous about lines like this:
As far as talent in the farm system, the Rangers openly believe they are in far better position to acquire a major piece before the Trade Deadline than most any other team.
This sounds like a rich man dangling his purse to get a trophy wife. I seriously doubt Daniels would act that way, but it would be tempting for any GM to feel “rich” when the system is so full of talent.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
They have Alonso
they have Francisco, Mesoraco, and lots of decent fillers to round out a deal.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
And here I think the complete opposite
Lee is the only top of the rotation without a multi-year contract, and we have no idea if we will be able to go after the multi-year guys at the deadline.
Meanwhile what does it matter to the M’s when they trade him? They’ve got plenty of suitors and plenty of time.
The Rangers do not need Cliff Lee
to make the playoffs, we need him to become a serious player in the playoffs. The Ms have to trade Lee sometime, and every start he makes for them, the lower his value goes.
Why must we make this deal right now?
And I still have yet to hear who is this mysterious team with this awesome package lined up for him.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Yes Firebat
keep banging this drum. Seattle has to move him. Texas does not have to trade for him. Other good names are available that won’t come back to bite Texas in the ass.
Davis, Salty, Font, and a rookie or DSL lottery card are all that we should pay.
Who are these other teams that are willing to pay through the nose for him?
I have yet to see anyone actually throw out a name or a package of prospects. It’s foolish to pay for him now vs. waiting till the deadline.
And yes, Seattle has to move him, and I don’t think Texas has to get him to make the playoffs. Do you think otherwise?
Like I said, Carrasco/Donald/Knapp/Marson, this is where the conversation starts, and that’s being generous.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Especially generous considering he now a year less of team control.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
That's my question
no one is going to move their best prospect(s) to acquire him. He’s a rental and the price cannot be that high. And has anyone even said can Sheppers be part of a deal? Didn’t he sign really late? How long can the ptbnl wait to be named?
June is the cutoff date
so Scheppers can be traded.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Well, of course
there is no rush to make the deal, as the article says. I don’t believe the Rangers will make the deal too much before the trade deadline, for both financial and prospect cost reasons. Every day they wait the cost for Lee goes down.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Moving from playoff team to playoff contender is a pretty big deal…
As it stands right now, Cliff Lee is the Rangers only option for a front line starter because of contracts.
Other teams that are interested him theoretically could decide not to pull the trigger and wait to see if they can get a better deal on Oswalt and such. Maybe like you said there arn’t too many teams ready to give up a big deal… as options dwindle and time goes by arn’t they more likely to do so and become bigger competitors? They can stand to have him go off the table to the Rangers.. if he goes off the table to someone else the Rangers could be out of luck. Which no, wouldn’t be the end of the world.. but obviously the Rangers want him.
That type of thinking
is a good way to end up bidding against yourself.
Jack Z will shop the package he likes to others, why would he not?
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I didn't say he wouldn't
I said they may be less willing to outbid it now than when other options are gone.
Lee
will be the first domino to fall more than likely. Remember as Halladay last year teaches us, as pitchers go off the market, so do buyers.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
I wouldn't say that so fast:
that they don’t need him to make the playoffs; we’ve seen this team fall apart in the 2nd half and the Angels – granted, a different team – go on scorching streaks to take over. Cliff Lee would at least give us a boost in that area
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Fail.
Meant to reply to Firebat.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
I quit.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
If you can't afford him
Don’t give up prospects to make sure Seattle covers the cost. I trust JD—but just hope they’re operating with that mindset. I don’t believe so—which is why this worries me.
And to a Holland trade…
No, no, no, no, no, never, never, no, no, never.
FUCK THAT.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
by Conjunction on Jul 8, 2010 12:40 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I really, really hope you're right on Holland
But I just don’t agree
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
holy shit
Broussard from ESPN: All sources indicating LeBron to Heat
I don't buy anything
anymore. Too much baseless Lebron speculation has made this a “boy who cried wolf” situation.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
Seems some legitimate news sources I trust are thinking this is what will happen as well.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
by Brandon Worley on Jul 8, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
If this is true the NBA just became a 2 team league.
And I won’t be tuning in anymore.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Prediction: Bosh, LeBron and Wade won't win a Championship.
LeBron going to Wade’s team is career suicide.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 8, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
This is like Jordan running to Detroit like a little bitch
wanting to play with Isiah Thomas before ’91.
It’s going to fail.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Do you have a set of tits and your own blog? Those are the only Ranger fans I know who think that way."
Yeah...
This is the worst case scenario.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Prediction: they win 1 in a 2 year window; Wade or LeBron leaves after Year 2
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:23 AM CDT up reply actions
How does 1 leave?
They won’t be able to opt out for like 3 years, right? Actually…who cares, the NBA sucks.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
That's going to be a trainwreck of the highest order...
Chris Bosh isn’t going to dig having to score 11 points / grabbing 11 boards…while being introduced 2nd, 3rd, 4th plus DWade is gonna start having health problems.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
"Do you have a set of tits and your own blog? Those are the only Ranger fans I know who think that way."
I hope they crash and burn too.
But I don’t see any way that lineup doesn’t get at least one ring.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
It's all fun and games until the dumbasses figure out there's only 1 ball to be dribbled with.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 8, 2010 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Also who the hell is going to play PG?
And who is their C?
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
They would be banking on league minimum vets to come in and round out the roto.
Or the Big 3 taking less money for more flexibility.
"When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty."- General George S. Patton
This saddens me.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
No I'm just not as high on him as everyone else.
I don’t think he’ll ever be top of the rotation good for a whole season. I like him as a person though.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
x
Prospect Insider has learned that the rumor of the Rangers offering Justin Smoak is not true, but that the talks were left at a “we will get back to you” level, apparently when the Mariners let the Rangers know that a match isn’t likely without the switch-hitting first baseman in the package.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Churchill knows his M's stuff
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 8, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
huh?
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 8, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Alexander Fleming saved him as a boy
then years later all grown up, Churchill got pneumonia. This time he was saved by penicillin…which Fleming had discovered.
by Mike E on Jul 8, 2010 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
hahahhaha
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions
It was Fleming's father who did the saving first time around.
Then as a reward, Churchill’s father paid for Fleming the Junior’s education at high-class institutions.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
lol
Wow this is great. the Mike E bot’s google script picked up the wrong churchill.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 8, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
why do you think we sent him down to AAA
it’s like the equivalent of our pitchers going down to learn the cutter
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Fuck the M's then.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
This
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 8, 2010 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the spirit.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Not at all surprising...
If your trade partner has Smoak, do you accept Davis?
Of course not. Particularly if you’re holding Cliff Lee.
It’s not going to be easy, folks. And yes I know he’s a free agent after this year.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 8, 2010 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I still don't see another team
willing to offer nearly as much
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
The Twins don't want to give up Hicks
So they are just going to to take it
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 8, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
So the rumors about...
the Twins offering Hicks and Ramos are false then?
I’d have to think if that was on the table the M’s would have jumped on it, right?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Have you seen what Ramos is doing this year?
It’s not exactly the pears.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn...
guess not.
And with Hicks being a lower level guy, I guess I can see why the M’s are still looking around.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Heh
but some on here basically want to blow that offer away in terms of both talent and being close to the league
this board has gone fuckin insane
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
How better is he than Adam Moore?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
link
http://prospectinsider.com/view/lee-to-twins-not-done/
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
by Kinslerhomer on Jul 8, 2010 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
It must be stressful to be a Major League...
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
JD said JackZ knows his value...
I remember at the Q&A where JD said JackZ is a pretty fair evaluator.
If I’m sitting on Lee, yah, I’m probably asking for Smoak too.
But, I’ve got to think that means Dutch is off the table…right?? right? Smoak and Dutch and someone? Eek, that smells like too much…maybe.
He has Lee
but he has no chance to re-sign him and JD knows that too.
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
but neither do we
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
but he has no chance at making the playoffs
we’ve got a rather reasonable magic number all but guaranteeing we’re in. what is it now, 70?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh i know
but i dont think we need Lee to make the playoffs
Ultimately, my issue is simply that i would never give up big time prospects for a rental….i fucking hate rentals
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
you and me both
but you have to admit if it won us even a playoff GAME…but even more so a SERIES…it’d be worth it just based on our history.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Wrong
You don’t make deals b/c of “our history”. That’s stupid.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
by Drew062682 on Jul 8, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
this x10000000000
and again, no to walter as well…id rather be a legit contender for the next 6
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Yeah, if the playoffs are a bit of a crap shoot
Which I, and many in here believe that it is…..I’d think that going into a crap shoot 4 or 5 times in the next 6 years with a normal chance of winning is better than upping your odds by 7% this year, but potentially lowering them over the next 6 years by more than that by not only dropping your chances, but increasing the M’s.
Having said all this, I want Lee, and think that the price is not nearly as high as some in here have predicted.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
I don't believe any trade rumors. I just wait for the trade to happen.
I'm just goofin' new boot goofin'
Let's see if they still feel this way on July 30-31
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Then you just say no....
either let the mariners mistakenly eat him this year…let another team overpay for him, or force the mariners to come down to your offer
play it smart though
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Being excited by thoughts of Cliff Lee...
has made me unable to work on the next Series Preview.
Possible downside to Cliff Lee?!
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:10 AM CDT reply actions
Blows out his arm in first start...
that’d be our f’ing luck.
I will find you
and do unspeakable things to you if you suggest that again.
We wait until he’s signed with the Yankees before doing that.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Bat means business...
My suggestion, Leave the house. Don’t use a credit card or a cell phone. Good luck.
"Fuck Tom Hicks. There is no aspect of my baseball universe that man hasn't shit on."
"A win is a win. Kinda like banging a hogger on Spring Break. You’re glad hardly anybody saw you do it but at the end of the day you got laid."-- Josey Wales
by TooLegitToQuit on Jul 8, 2010 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions
It takes Justin Smoak to get him.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh...
I don’t believe that. I think that’s the opening riposte from Dr. Z.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions
If the Rangers are going to ask Seattle to pay for Lee too, it's a fair request.
Holy shit being broke sucks.
no, it isn't
not with what else is rumored to be going to SEA.
Read the Churchill note linked above.
The talks centered around Smoak, with the assumption being if the Rangers traded him, Seattle would cover the remainder of Lee’s salary.
Smoak and what else
is my point? Smoak for Lee (and his salary) 1 for 1? I’d think SEA would want more than that… and so the rumors persist.
Besides, I hate the idea of trading Smoak anyway, a free Lee or not. That could be just me though.
Who knows?
But if you’re asking them to pay, Smoak’s a good place to start.
I don't think so...
and I certainly wouldn’t do it.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Apparently, neither would the Rangers.
For now at least.
Good ol' Cliff Lee...
He’s going to ruin this website.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't see how.
He might ruin the Rangers if Daniels goes batshit insane, but Lone Star Ball will always live on.
If Justin Smoak or Derek Holland is traded...
to Seattle. Good lord. This place would be a madhouse.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I will make
Josh Lewin’s children cry
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
I'd be very, very sad if Smoak or Holland are traded
but I would put a horse head in JD’s bed if he trades Perez.
by sbk00 on Jul 8, 2010 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Youd be in a long line
and you dont even want to think about what Dirkatron would do to him
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I mean look how riled up just talking about it gets us.
People would flip the fuck out if it actually happened. Especially for a 3 month rental.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
I guess it depends on how you do your valuations
but I think including Smoak in a deal for Lee at this point in the season, as a rental and with only ~$3mil left to pay for, is too much.
For most clubs yes. Assuming the sale drags on, the Rangers are a unique situation.
If the Rangers really are that hard up for money and are desperate for Lee, Seattle has them by the balls.
Let's say the rumor...
that the Rangers have a little in the budget right now is correct. And Cliff Lee is owed $3 million by the time you trade for him. You ask the Mariners for $2 million and Cliff Lee. Is Smoak really the guy that it takes to up the ante for $2 million? I can’t see Dr. Z sticking to that if he can get a nice package out of the Rangers without Smoak being included.
by ghostofErikThompson on Jul 8, 2010 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions
In that equation, Smoak >>>>Main
worth a lot more than $2M.
Also, Seattle doesn’t really have them by the balls. They can always choose to trade for another pitcher. Less desirable, sure. But if the alternative is dealing away too much, you just go talk to Houston, AZ, etc.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Well, sort of
they can always just decide not to make a deal if every team that deals with them is making ridiculous demands to take on salary. If Seattle is demanding too much to take on Lee’s salary, than of course so would every other team with a desirable starter.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
How?
Do they have to trade for Lee?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
IN TERMS OF NEGOTIATING A FUCKING DEAL FOR LEE
PENIS WE ALL GET YOUR POINT
PENIS YOUVE MADE IT
PENIS IT IS MADE
PENIS
JEEZ
PENIS
US
PENIS
CHRIST
PENIS
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think i preferred the rape meme
And again, if they keep getting to fucking trot out there lines claiming we’re fucking hopeless and have to trade for Lee, i can keep debating the logic behind that concept
go rape something, you clearly need the release
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
But here's the thing.
You can’t glean any information about the package from that report. All you know is the Mariners want Smoak badly and he’ll be the centerpiece. The remaining players around him are completely up in the air so it’s not really accurate to characterize Smoak as the $2mm or anything else.
True
If the Mariners demand Smoak, I’m demanding to expand the deal.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Smoak/Borbon/Holland/Perez?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
then they should walk away
a bad trade is a bad trade. Including Smoak in a deal for Lee is an incredibly bad trade.
And that’s with all due respect to how good Lee has been this season.
Many downsides
Injury causes him to miss a couple starts
overpay to get him, especially in terms of the M’s taking on salary
overpay to get him relative to other pitchers available for lower cost
blowing wad too early in contention window, squandering important assets in the process…see Arizona…
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
That last one is the key point I'm trying to make.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Yep
Looking at Arizona makes me sad to think about giving up way too much
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
Well that and
If you’re Seattle are you better waiting or hoping someone panics and overpays to buy early? You don’t want to get to the bottom and have everyone lowball you knowing you have to trade him. If the Rangers wait and make a middling offer they can’t exactly shop that around. Yes someone will beat it but what does that matter if the winning “bid” if you will is mediocre. Its gotta be in Seattle’s best interest to try and move him a few days early rather than sit and wait and hope someone upgrades their purchase price.
Dear god please do not trade Der-Hol to the fucking M's.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 1:25 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Good prayings
"There's really no way of knowing... Sometimes when I see their big eyes looking up from my lap I think, that's definitely a homeless guy in a fur coat." Betty White on SNL
by Pocket Ninja on Jul 8, 2010 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I should stop.
I’m almost certain God hates me.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
More Hobo than god
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
by FirebatM3 on Jul 8, 2010 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not good.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Eating a ton
"I was going to say, 'You’re gay for Elvis.' But then I realized that I, too, am gay for Elvis." ~Adam J. Morris.
nah he created you. he's proud.
he just won’t admit it to anybody else
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:27 AM CDT up reply actions
My father created me with his penis.
Or so he says.
Seems improbable to me.
But he’s been right about things before, so I don’t know what to think.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Rangers100 is posting on HH apparently
it’s a match made in douchebag heaven.
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
That's terrible
The internet is a worse place, right now, for that.
Look at the comments under Jeff Wilson's blog post on dallasnews.com. What a bunch of rocket scientists.- Keith Law
Did you call the hypothetical hardware store and buy a theoretical chain saw?
I caught that the last of the two times I was over there.
I took it as a sign that that place is one of the circles of Hell. Now I must avoid it for the sake of my eternal soul.
Sorry you had to see that.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Atlanta Braves people
remember how much we make fun of them right now…
imagine if we didnt have Feliz and Andrus
please dont give up the premier talent on the farm, it just isnt worth it for a rental
Atlanta Braves (and they actually had another year of tex, a luxury we dont have)
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I generally agree with this
but even Scheppers/Beavan/Beltre isn’t as good as the package the Rangers got for Tex.
I'm fighting with myself over this.
I would really, really like to see Lee here for the rest of the year.
But that’s all it would be. There are reasonable deals that can be made, but the question is will any team go past reasonable? The hope is that that team won’t be the Rangers.
sss
Plenty of returns have busted too ya know, Oakland isn’t winning any world series right now after trading away a lot of guys. Obviously there is a limit (the Tex deal was beyond it), but tis not like every one of these deals is a disaster, even if it doesn’t help them get far in the playoffs.
there's certainly been more busts than successes
"If the Saints can reach the Superbowl, the Rangers can reach the World Series." - PhilKid
The Animated Ballpark in Arlington
Certainly
and that is the risk you take
i just dont want to take that risk for a 3 month rental….
and again, we CAN win without Lee
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Yes we can win without Lee but...
…can we get past the first round?
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Are you sure about that?
Even if we could we have a much better chance of going further in the playoffs with Lee.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
I agree
I’m just saying Yankees have been arguably the best team in the playoffs any given year, and they lose more often than not at some point.
Playoff series are close to 50% either way. If our pitchers are on their games, or their pitchers are off, or our offense is on, etc., anything can happen.
People aren’t giving enough credit to the fact that we have 3-.940+ OPS batters PLUS Kinsler and FOTF, and 2 walk machines in Smoak and Andrus
Our offense can carry our only slightly above-average pitching staff
Remember 1996
We all thought the offense could carry that team in the playoffs as well. Juando was the only one that showed up in that series.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Sure...
But, there are several other years you could point to where a stacked Yankees team lost in the 1st or 2nd round undeservedly.
It’s tough to form strategy around the Rangers’ whole 3 playoff series when there is a much larger sample size to pull from.
Thank you for some fucking logic
so much of the playoffs is just random…like any 1 series has a shit ton of random events that decide it
we were better than the angels, but they took 2 out of 3 b/c of some of that random luck that happens in baseball
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
and yet look at the Braves this year WITHOUT that talent
can you imagine if that trade hadn’t gone down?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:28 AM CDT up reply actions
That team is amazing at building a farm system, wow.
Freeman, Vizcaino, Delgado, Teheran all still on the farm.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
Im not sure which way you are going with that...
It could actually fit for either side
i also think it should be noted that they didnt trade us a lot that was as ML ready as what we are discussing with Seattle
the 2 guys with the most upside were crazy young
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Cleveland doesn't have much to say for CC and Lee trades
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Their Lee trade was fucking horrible.
One of the worst trades ever.
So, so bad.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
And then Philly traded him...
…and it was worse.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Doug Fister
I think he’s sold his soul, maybe they should be trading for him? 3.09 ERA, 16 walks and 39 Ks in 84.1 IP, he’s having Beavan’s AA season in the major leagues. Sarcasm, in case it’s not obvious.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
It is also why i love beavan
no walks…
Fister plays in front of one of the best defenses in baseball so a shitton of those balls in plays become outs…i fuckin hate walks
yes, i know that was sarcasm, and im not actually sure what i was posting at this point….time for bed…carry on
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
"Both reports say that Martin Perez and Tanner Scheppers are off-limits"
If they’d just put Holland in that sentence, I’d be really happy.
I'm just glad Scheppers is considered by the organization as I'd hope they would
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I wank smoak in that sentence
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I believe that's an unwritten one... kinda like Fleas and Andrus.
To a lesser extent, but, yah.
Also, fuck off, Rentzington.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
I hate you more than I ever thought it was possible to hate another human being
VAGINA!
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
If you didn't exist, I'd be able to relax and just fucking coast.
Jesus fuck I dislike you being alive.
Poison?
Have you considered it?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
If I didnt exist who would hold down second place and at least create an appearance of competition?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
I don't know Sprite? (Tries to keep a straight face.) (Trying really hard...) (Loses it) BAHA AHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!
Oh, my…
Sprite being good at fantasy baseball.
I kill me sometimes with my hilarious jokings.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
I'd rather lose Holland than Smoak
though, in reality, that’s like saying I’d rather lose my left nut than my penis.
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
So a deal with Salty, Davis, Beavan...
what else can we add outside of Per-eppe-lland/Smoak to have a shot at them biting?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
Take out Beavan, add in Font and Hunter... and pray.
That doesn’t get it done, though.
At least I don’t think it does.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Needs more ceiling
Hunter, Davis, Salty, EBeltre…
…+Ross or Font?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Players I'd least like to lose in order from "Hell Fucking No" to "Take him if you have to"
1. Perez
2. Holland
3. Smoak
4. Scheppers
5. Ogando
6. Beavan
7. Davis
8. Salty
So, I guess I could do an Ogando, Salty, Davis, Beavan… but putting Beavan in there makes me very sad.
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
I agree with your list
I would make the top 4 untouchable. I don’t like the idea of trading pitching but Ogando’s ceiling is that of an 8th inning reliever. Beavan will top out as a #4 SP.
Ogando's ceiling
is that of a good closer. He has a tremendous fastball and a very effective breaker.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
Ogando has already reached his ceiling then?
I think he could close, and in a pinch I would imagine he could start and be damn effective, too. Just not sure (limited exposure) how many innings he could last if pushed into full time starting duty.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Beavan can be more than that.
I think a LAIE is his baseline, but he can def be more.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
agree
Beavan could certainly reach the #2/3
i think the one thing me and you may be in agreement on here is that he is becoming a little underrated around here
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Yeah
there is a lot of young talent with shit tons of upside that id rather keep than some of those guys
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
White Sox/Angels play today @ 1:05
Danks v. Santana. If there ever was a time to cheer for Danks it would be now.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Not really our guy...
….just like Elvis and Happy isn’t the Braves guys.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
So will we ever have to root for "our" guys when they play for Seattle?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Please, Please, Please!!!!!!
Don’t trade Derek Holland. Holland, Elvis, and Feliz are my favorite Rangers. Irrationally I don’t ever want to see their names in trade rumors much less actual trades.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Perez, Holland and Scheppers
all project to be at least a #3 SP. With the Rangers’ history I would not trade any of them.
that isn't their ceiling
not for any of the three. Perhaps most likely outcome (which, fuck, that ain’t bad), but it isn’t their ceiling.
Hence the "at least"
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Forgive him
He can’t read
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Agreed
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
And even if he does have a higher ceiling so what???
They both have the potential to be shutdown aces.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Holland had a very good minor league run but nothing as dominant as Tanner
of course, your rebuttal is, “but Holland did it in the majors too!” and mine is, yes, but Tanner will too, with time. And another rebuttal is, “But Tanner has walked too many guys!” Yes, he has. Give him some time to adjust to AAA and I think he’ll get back to dominance.
Scheppers is also younger than Holland. I think with Holland my expectations are of a # 2 starter. And of Scheppers it’s a # 1 starter.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Those weren't my rebuttals.
My rebuttal was simply that Derek Holland is the best pitcher in this organization.
sorry to put words in your mouth
no I’m not…but maybe
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Minor League Dominance
Scepp: AA – 11 IP, 19 K, 0 BB, .82 ERA
AAA – 39 IP, 45 K, 16 BB, 3.46 ERA
Holland: AA – 26 IP, 29 K, 6 BB, .69 ERA
AAA – 38.2 IP, 37 K, 7 BB, .93 ERA
Tough to say what Holland did was not as dominant as Tanner. And, he’s a lefty.
no doubt
I’m talking about mowing hitters down…that 19 k to 0 bb performance was Feliz-like
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
and Joaquin Arias
don’t you mean Arias, too? I think you forgot him. He’s certainly one of mine.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Yall are annoying....
The Rangers are in a position right now where they could make the playoffs for the first time in years..
Noone knows whats going to happen to prospects, the goal should be win while we can…
The Rangers are in position right now where they can compete with anyone with a real ace.
Why not go for it? We never know if we will be in this position again…
Baseball is a game where sometimes you have to go for it when you know you can.
100% J. Arias supporter from day 1
But you
know what I’m saying?
Wouldn’t you rather go for it while we can? We don’t know whats going to happen to Josh Hamilton next year, there are too many iffs to just sit back and keep waiting for the future every single year…
Why not go for it now?
Remember the 2003 Marlins?
100% J. Arias supporter from day 1
No I know what you're saying...
and half of my brain is with you. The other half is way too attached to what we have.
Remember the '08 Brewers?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Trading future good pitchers for present good pitchers
is how the Rangers lost Young and Danks. We still have scars.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
This is the amazing thing about the way the media has pushed for the acquisition of Halladay and Lee at extreme prices the last two seasons
After they spent the seasons before bitching about how we never should’ve given up Danks and Young.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions
People just don't learn.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
No
the great irony would be that they tell JD and the rangers that they have to do the deals…and then in 4 years they would lament how stupid JD and the rangers are for giving up that talent, and they would never mention their previous pieces
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Young really isn't that good...
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
he sure as shit was for a while there
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
If by a while
You mean 15 starts
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
he was our best starter the year before we traded him
and he was a very good pitcher in the league for 2 years after that
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't compare
Adam Eaton and Brandon McCarthy to Cliff Lee.
Here, I'll do it for you: They suck compared to Cliff Lee.
There, how hard was that?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They were also under contract for longer
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Not Eaton...
Well, I guess 6 months versus 3 months is longer, but since he was injured for half of that 6 months, let’s call it a wash.
Good question,
I still have his contact info on my gmail account, I will have to check in on him!
Thanks for reminding me
100% J. Arias supporter from day 1
*QUEEFS*
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Your signature line says it all
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
I knew my stance was right...this settles it
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
by Horns130 on Jul 8, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't get
me wrong though, Cliff Lee is a high price…
But the type A free agent thing doesn’t hurt us..
If we get Lee, I am a supporter of turning around and trading for Fausto Carmona because he will come cheaper than many people think…
Think about this rotation
Cliff Lee
Fausto Carmona
Colby Lewis
Tommy Hunter
CJ Wilson
100% J. Arias supporter from day 1
Fausto Carmona is Scott Feldman
Scott Feldman sucks. Kinda.
Well… not sucks, but would you make a trade to get Scott Feldman on your team?
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
You certainly wouldn't plug him in at #2
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
did you see
what Feldman did last season?
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes
4.68 K/9
That’s worse than Feldman. A cherry-picked stat? Perhaps. But I don’t think it’s on me to prove Carmona isn’t worth it. It’s on you to prove he is.
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
Yeah, I have
And what he’s doing is getting lucky, both on fly balls (despite allowing a career high percentage of them) and BABIP.
He is getting tons of grounders and not allowing very many line drives, I will say that for him – but his .274 BABIP certainly isn’t a product of having good defense behind him, because Cleveland is dead fucking last in UZR this year. When you figure he’s allowing more fly balls than usual and K’ing even less guys than usual, the GB% doesn’t look quite so impressive.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
Oh, jeez.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
question for JD
If you were not willing to trade Holland for Halladay why would you trade him for Lee?
maybe it wasn't the right tine
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Half a year of Lee at that!
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Ill defend that idea by simply saying that we are better this year and have a much better chance to win the division
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Smoak for Lee
straight up…nobody else…i would do this in a heartbeat…hell i would even throw in the the cockroach, who has finally showed he can play this year
Smoak, Font and Ross for Lee?
Too much or not enough?
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Heh...Spider?
* shudders *
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. George Will
by GhostofSteveFoucault on Jul 8, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Gac or Gold!
Both would jump at the chance to return to the Rangers! That’s the ticket right there.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Bottsu-san?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Mitch Moreland!
Batspeed, remember?
Batspeed guys!
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
by LSJ on Jul 8, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
What is this a reference to?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
The reports during the spring that Moreland's batspeed was ths shiznit
Slash potshot at the Rudy J days.
I wouldn’t trade Michael Main straight up for Bengie Molina, even if my alternate catcher was a pointed stick. - KLaw
Why not? Faster on the bases, better defensively, offensive production roughly a wash
we're from Texas
CJ says "Relax"
x
offensive production roughly a wash
STFU
by elvis1isking on Jul 8, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spanish Jack
because I guaran-f-ing-tee you Vladdy Daddy will NOT let them trade his little buddy
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
If Vlad need Arias...
to do what he has been doing then someone get Arias a gold plated bench seat.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Just wait until rosters expand
To do it.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Think about how many draft picks we would have if Frankie ended up being a Type A
Along with Lee’s comps.
Mike Olt - 2013 A.L. Rookie of the Year.
He declined to accept the award as to not show up his fellow rookies. Incentives earned from being named ROY were donated to a local charity. He did not report this donation on his tax return.
This can not be over looked
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
I was thinking the same thing
Even though Lee is just a rental. The Rangers would also get draft pick compensation upon his signing with the Yankees.
If Frankie is a Type A
Then yes I will take my chances. Off the top of my head who is going to be ranked higher than Lee at this point?
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
LOL
I was on the phone when I typed that. I read it after I hit post.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Crawford
MLBTR has updated Elias projections. Lee is at 91.76 and Crawford is 85.53. Hmm… I had read somewhere last week that Crawford was ahead of Lee.
btw, Frankie and Vlad are solid type As.
You offer Vladdy after the season he just had, and there's no way he doesn't accept.
He’d make like a bajillion dollars.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
If we have the $$
I would LOVE to take Vlad on a 1 yr arb deal. He won’t make more than $13M, would he?
13mm is a lot.
I dunno if there’s ever been a comp like that, though.
A guy has an absolutely bonkers season, and then accepts arb.
Is there a comp out there anyone can think of?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
None comes to mind
But I’d think at his age he would like the security of a long-term deal over another 1-year commitment.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
Who the hell's gonna give 37-53 year-old Vladdy Guerrero a multi-year deal?
I guess he could hope for a deal in the Bobby Abreu 2yr/18mm range… but I can’t see him getting too much more than that.
The number of teams out there looking to throw multi-year deals at a guy like Vladdy has to be pretty slim.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Vlad's got a lengthy history of being a phenomenal player
And 80 hit tools tend to age pretty well. The Blue Jays, for one, would go crazy to get his bat into their regular DH slot.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
The fuck do the Blue Jays want with Vladdy Guerrero?
They’re not contending.
Why sign an old ass DH to an expensive multi-year contract if you’re not going for it?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
The Blue Jays
love power hitters. Love love love power hitters.
They’re probably going to set a record for solo home runs in a season. If anyone keeps track of shit like that.
http://oursaviorchuck.ytmnd.com/
I'd give him...
a 2yr/22mm deal right now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Greg Maddux?
"I don’t know how these SN blog authors get their gigs, but I’m frankly surprised SN tolerates AJM’s lack of effort." Tex34
At the end of the day.... Nolan Ryan will be the next control owner of the Texas Rangers Baseball Club.
by bigoil on Jul 7, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
by Brian Thomas on Jul 8, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
We're assuming that happens
Do we offer him arbitration?
I say in a heartbeat, but obv we cannot if this ownership situation doesn’t settle itself
Why?
He’d make more than 9mm in arb.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
... that seems wildly optomistic to me.
But, I dunno.
Maybe.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
may get a 2yr
with a mutual option just like this contract — only with more money overall included.
Oh, and LAAA gave Abreau a much more Abreau-friendly contract after his 1 year deal. With the year Vladdy is having, I don’t think it is all that far-fetched to think another team will do this for him.
yeah
but he got the extra year. That was my point.
Possible that Vlad gets the extra year, though I wonder how much our ballpark and how he does in it will play out…
1/13 is most likely gonna net you more money over the two years than 2/19.
Unless you just fall apart, that is.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I could see the Angels doing it
they took GMJ from us, then swung a second wild time to steal Torii from us. I could see them saying, “Hideki, you’re great and all, but I hope you enjoy riding the pine…VLAD welcome back!”
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
If we have the money to spend on said draft picks, we could just as easily spend it in LA or on overslots later on, a la AJ Cole/etc.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
Lee will be signed by the Yanks
along with someone else and we’ll be lucky to get a first rounder. Look at the Brewers getting screwed because CC and Teix were signed the same offseason.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
I have
they wont be near as valuable as what we gave up…and is there any kind of guarantee that we can sign them at this point?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I would be welcome to the idea of trading Holand if...
They take Josey Wales
I like the earlier posters comment
about how we don’t know what Hamilton will be like next year. Also – will we even have Vlad? All valid points.
To be honest though, when we traded Danks and Young, we NEVER got anyone in return even in the same stratosphere as Cliff Lee. We got Adam fucking Eaton and Brandon “glass arm” McCarthy. Losing Holland would hurt, but at least you know what youre getting is as close to a sure thing for the reaminder of the season as you can get.
Let's not act like our window of opportunity is only going to be open for one year
"We are no longer a ride at Six Flags, we are in contention to do some things that will make our lives complete. I have been waiting for this for a long time." - Chuck Morgan
I'm not
and I don’t think it will be. But the two main producers in our 3rd overall ranked offense (and huge part of our success) are having incredible years that no one expected them to have. Just sayin we might have a slightly better opportunity this year than next. Of course there is no way to actually determine that, so I could be wrong…
This shit again
if you can play that game, cant you just spin that on this year and say what if Cliff Lees fucking arm falls off in the first game for us?
that shit has no purpose b/c it is irrelevant and has no basis to make informed decisions about
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
I know I'm being a homer
And ignoring the % of success of pitching prospects
But, is it too much to ask for a 2012 rotation of
Holland, Scheppers, Feliz, Perez, Hunter?
We’re talking about potentially the 90’s Braves rotation
we have been burned in the past
by awful trades and seeing said prospects flourish later (though at this point Danks is the only one who has really had consistent MLB success, and he is pitching more like a #2 or even good #3 than an Ace), but for the right deal sometimes you need to part with prospects. I’d love to see that rotation, but I wouldn’t sell the farm based on that projection.
Detroit sent down Galaraga
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
yea
and I forgot about him. Galaragga wasn’t one of our big prospects though. In fact, who would you compare him to in our system now?
Out of everyone, only Danks has been healthy and stuck in an MLB rotation. the whole DVD combo was supposed to be surefire. Volquez and Diamond can’t stay healthy enough to do anything. Holland has had a bit of injury history that is also concerning. Just sayin…
Remember when Eric Hurley was our #1 prospect?
Those were the dayz
by oc on Jul 8, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think DVD was ever as highly regarded nationally
as Nef-tommy Per-eppe-lland is. I know we blew it up, but I don’t think those 3 were all legit # 1 starters. We have 4 of them.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
That's ballsy to call them all
Legit # 1 starters. And I’m as homerish as they come.
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
excuse me
POSSIBLE legit # 1 starters. We were hoping DVD could all be that, but realistically, with their arsenals, scouting reports, etc. I don’t think we’d have considered more than 1 of them a #1 and probably the other two at best a #2 and #3
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Since his Perfect screw job
He has been bad.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Galarag
wasn’t traded for another pitcher. He was just let go. Volquez was traded for Hamilton. Really only Young, Danks and maybe Helling apply as comps. Helling is interesting because the Rangers traded him for Burkett and then reacquired him. That’s like trading Hunter today which I would like to see over Holland despite Hollands current injury status.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
Galarag was traded for Michael Hernandez
Mike Olt - 2013 A.L. Rookie of the Year.
He declined to accept the award as to not show up his fellow rookies. Incentives earned from being named ROY were donated to a local charity. He did not report this donation on his tax return.
Hernandez was an outfielder
and he was traded after being DFA’d or basically let go.
I didn't know what a mancrush was. Derek Holland showed me.
the potential for all those guys panning out and falling into place
seems very slight
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
OK; then one or two or three flame out
“Hey, there’s Willie Font! Blake Beavan!! Mike Kirkman!!! Neil Ramirez, nice to see you – where the hell have you been?” They may not be as highly regarded, but you’ll have a consistent flow of these names where in the past we had 1 or 2 if lucky over the course of a 3 year period.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Ugh...
Thanks for that. Now you’ve given me a boner, and I’m stuck at work.
Not sure how my boss and the ladies here are going to respond to this.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
The Russians are in on the bidding
keithlaw
The BBC World Service is reporting that the Russians are hoping to swap several high-value prisoners for Cliff Lee
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Sneaky fuckin' Russians...
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
Boris the Blade and Vicente Padilla are eerily similar dudes, imo.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
except borris the blade is freaking awesome!
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Tell me you wouldn't comb the pop tarts out of your beard for the chance to party with the Padzilla?
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I donno dude
Boris the Blade seems like a Rollie Fingers-type
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I really like this movie reference.
Bullet Tooth Tony: So, you are obviously the big dick. The men on the side of ya are your balls. Now there are two types of balls. There are big brave balls, and there are little mincey faggot balls.
Vinny: These are your last words, so make them a prayer.
Bullet Tooth Tony: Now, dicks have drive and clarity of vision, but they are not clever. They smell pussy and they want a piece of the action. And you thought you smelled some good old pussy, and have brought your two little mincey faggot balls along for a good old time. But you’ve got your parties muddled up. There’s no pussy here, just a dose that’ll make you wish you were born a woman. Like a prick, you are having second thoughts. You are shrinking, and your two little balls are shrinking with you. And the fact that you’ve got “Replica” written down the side of your guns…
[Zoom in on the side of Sol’s gun, which indeed has “REPLICA” etched on the side; zoom out, as they sneak peeks at the sides of their guns]
Bullet Tooth Tony: And the fact that I’ve got “Desert Eagle point five O”…
[Withdraws his gun and puts it on the table]
Bullet Tooth Tony: Written down the side of mine…
[They look, zoom in on the side of his gun, which indeed has “DESERT EAGLE .50” etched on the side]
Bullet Tooth Tony: Should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now… Fuck off!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Not his best effort
Mike Olt - 2013 A.L. Rookie of the Year.
He declined to accept the award as to not show up his fellow rookies. Incentives earned from being named ROY were donated to a local charity. He did not report this donation on his tax return.
I think trading Holland would be a bad idea
I think my order of least wanting to trade would be
1. Perez
2. Holland
3. Scheppers
4. Smoak
I would probably trade Smoak as long as there is nothing else of significance in the trade package for Lee.
Having a hard-hitting switch-hitting 1b for the next 5 years would be nice...
Let’s pump up Davis’s minor league stats, young age, and stellar attitude (handling the demotion so well) to Seattle.
Throw in Salty, Beaven, Font, and Beltre. Or, sub Moreland for Beltre/Font
That is a HAUL for Seattle, and we get to keep the 6-man Pentagon
Assuming he really is
a switch hitter.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
He's always been better from the right side
Trust him
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Would you have a snow ball fight
With Randy Johnson?
AL West
Oakland 90-72
LAAA 88-74
Texas 83-79
Seattle 77-85
By: Josey Wales
Cliff Lee....
If the M’s stupidly demand Smoak or no deal, then I would walk. I am hopefully that Smoak is just the starting point. However after watching the Blue Jays do the same last year I have my doubts….granted the Blue Jays had more to stand on because they could trade Halladay during the offseason.
It seems I heard somewhere on LSB that Holland has connections to Seattle’s coaching staff?? Was their pitching coach in the Rangers organization? I have a feeling that Seattle wants Holland in the package.
As long as Holland is the only major prospect leaving, I am willing to do the deal.
Holland, Salty, Beaven
I would do it.
by death of the cool on Jul 8, 2010 9:09 AM CDT reply actions
Rick Adair, Seattle's pitching coach
was the Rangers’ pitching coordinator for four years
that right...thanks!
and if I remember right he was in love with Holland.
by death of the cool on Jul 8, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Mariners fan here...
I’ve been thinking Smoak is untouchable. I’m surprised to hear him as a possibility. The M’s will probably want Davis, Salty, and one of your top pitching prospects. At least one premiere prospect has to be in the deal, though.
Yup
That’s what I figure is the minimum asking price.
The Rangers can’t hope to only part with a bunch of second tier prospects.
You're in good shape with Davis
The Mariners probably overvalue power at the moment and they just got Branyan, so obviously strikeouts don’t bother them either. Davis would be a nice piece, just not a centerpiece.
How is Davis defensively? Is he horrible at 3B?
Not bad, he played some from the eye he looks pretty good.
"Josey drives to games??? I always assumed he rides in on his high horse" jam0152
"dirkatron has his own evaluation metric: rapes above replacement." AJM
Normally I wouldn't put too much faith in 40 games of UZR
But something tells me it’s pretty accurate in Davis’ case.
he's damn good at 1B
and I think he could survive at 3rd
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
ever heard of Blake Beavan? Go tell your GM he was our 1st round pick a few years ago
and hits 97 regularly…WICKED slider.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, Beavan is no joke.
He’s not quite Perez/Holland/Scheppers/Feliz but he’s nothing to scoff at.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
In the last 10 years.. how many WS champs have traded for a huge bat or an ace at the deadline?
2009 – Yankees:
2008 – Phillies:
2007 – Red Sox:
2006 – Cardinals:
2005 – White Sox:
2004 – Red Sox
2003 – Marlins:
2002 – Angels:
2001 – Diamondbacks:
2000 – Yankees:
This isn’t to say “Hey it never works!”.. I’m actually just curious. I’m trying to think of the deals these teams made at the deadline.
Cliff Lee very nearly won the World Series for the Phillies last year. He did his best, anyhow.
The 2004 Red Sox added Dave Robert and O-Cab in their jettisoning Nomar deals… don’t think they win without those.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
This is where I ask myself:
It’s rarely worked in the past. Is it worth it if Cliff Lee gets us to the playoffs? Am I going to be satisfied with just an appearence? I’m just not sure.
I don't want to give up our top prospects for Lee for partly this reason
You have to realize that no matter how stacked your team is, odds are against you to win the WS.
That being said, you have to realize that losing the WS this season would be parade-worthy for the Rangers, so maybe it’s enough.
Obviously, I would be pleased with a WS appearence.
What if we lose in the ALDS though? I mean, when you look back.. will it have been worth it?
I’m so on-the-fence about this.
You're gonna love Cliff Lee
He’s at the top of his game right now and he’ll have his way with the Yankees.
Well, winning the World Series is a truly rare event.
Pretty much everything is not going to work.
The 40 trumps all!
"WHY IS LIAM POPPINS STICKING. IT'S AN ABSURDLY BAD NICKNAME"
-LiamP(oppins)
by thedirkatron on Jul 8, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait
didnt all those other insanely good players that they have help too?
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Michael Scott has some words to say
"Josey drives to games??? I always assumed he rides in on his high horse" jam0152
"dirkatron has his own evaluation metric: rapes above replacement." AJM
by RangersSD on Jul 8, 2010 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Davis/Smoak
Can someone help me decide which of two I would be happier seeing dealt long term? I think I’ve seen Morneau as a comp for Smoak…what is the ceiling for Davis? Is it a universal consensus that if we had to trade one (long term career in mind) Davis is the one to get rid of?
This pretty much sums it up.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
If Davis had a future in Texas
he’d be your first baseman now, not Smoak.
That'd be great
because If you’re willing to trade Smoak, the deal gets done.
we're not
though, I don’t think JD is going to poll LSB before he pulls the trigger.
In all reality though, I’d be shocked if Smoak is traded. More pissed, but shocked too.
I'd be shocked too
But you guys have me encouraged.
SSS
"Josey drives to games??? I always assumed he rides in on his high horse" jam0152
"dirkatron has his own evaluation metric: rapes above replacement." AJM
He should poll LSB.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
happier? that's the wrong word
you’d rather hold onto Smoak – he’s the higher rated prospect; he’s the more patient bat. Davis has more raw power, and right now, better defense at 1B…but he’s just looked completely lost at the plate in 2 of his 3 major league stints. If he ever picked up some of Smoak’s ability to wait on the better pitch, he would be a MONSTER in this league. I think both ceilings are very high, but Smoak seems more likely to reach his.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Davis' Ceiling
Maybe something similar to Mark Reynolds with less walks, but at 1st?
2010: .218/.332/.479
2009: .260/.349/.543
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
i'd rather trade Scheppers than Holland
Let Cliff Lee give Holland a quick tutorial. They seem like awfully similar pitchers (Lee showed flashes of inconsistent brilliance earlier in his career).
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
If the M's asked for
Ramos+Hicks+someone else from the Twins, that’s going to come out to be way too much from our side in a similar deal. I’d pass.
But Hicks is too far away
Just throw in Smoak and we’ll get ’er done!
Just tell Z and the mariners to go fuck them selves and we'll get that done too...
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
Is there any way for the M's
to negotiate a contract extension w/Lee prior to dealing him to ensure that we will have him for after next year?
Adebisi says "Happy birthday to Kenny"
He said he won't negotiate during the season
and he’s going to test free agency. He’ll be a Yankee next year.
I don't want to be
one of those homers who is so attached to his favorite team’s prospects that he grossly overvalues their potential, but I’ve yet to hear a scenario for Lee that doesn’t make me cringe.
I’m just really not thrilled about having to pay through the nose for a half-season rental whilst simultaneously arming a division rival, especially given that I don’t think this team with Lee is the WS favorite.
There has to be another guy.
If you had money
Oswalt could work. I wouldn’t feel great about it, but it still pushes Lewis and Wilson into the 2 and 3 spots, respectively.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
What about Jurickson Profar?
Can he be traded? Does that do anything for the M’s?
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
The problem with guys like Profar...
is that they cant headline a deal, so they basically become throw in fillers in a deal, and to throw in high upside like Profar is kinda stupid to me
Sorry, I'm really fucking stupid and should be ridiculed and mocked for said stupidity.
Also please don't trade for Cliff Lee because I want to have a farm system for the next 6 years.
This thread was impossible to get through.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
Cliff Lee talk gets everyone riled up.
It’s a pretty divisive issue.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
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