John Dewar's Stat of the Week: MVP Candidates
Miguel Cabrera, American League MVP? August 20, 2010 As we approach September, it’s time to start considering MVP candidates. In the American League, Miguel Cabrera is a popular choice because of his offensive production this year. Here are Cabrera's triple-crown stats, compared to a couple of other MVP candidate
American League MVP Candidates Player AVG HR RBI
Miguel Cabrera .340 31 100
Josh Hamilton .353 26 81
Robinson Cano .325 24 78
Looking at this, most people would give the nod to Cabrera. But let's go a little deeper. As you might guess, we want to look at their defense. Miguel Cabrera is a defensive liability. He has cost his team nine runs defensively, based on the Defensive Runs Saved system we devised. Josh Hamilton has split time between left field and center field and has been an average outfielder, saving two runs with his defense. Robinson Cano’s defense at second base has been quite good having saved 14 runs so far this year.
But let's go still deeper. One more element we need to consider is the importance of the defensive position they play. A middle infielder is far more important defensively than a first baseman. We have a way to measure this, called the positional adjustment, and in this case we credit Cano with 23 runs for playing second base compared to nine runs for Miguel. Now let’s put it all together. Instead of using a player’s triple-crown stats, a more complete way to measure overall offensive production is Runs Created, Bill James’ estimate of the number of a team’s runs created by each individual hitter. Stolen base ability is included in Runs Created, but it doesn’t measure running on the basepaths other than stolen bases. We have a metric called Baserunning Runs which takes into account how often a baserunner takes an extra base on hits, how often he is thrown out, how often he advances on wild pitches and passed balls, scores on a sacrifice fly, etc. We can add up a player’s offensive Runs Created, Baserunning Runs, Defensive Runs Saved, and the positional adjustment to get a complete picture of what a player is worth. We call that picture Total Runs. Here are the leader boards for the American and National leagues in Total Runs for 2010.
American Leauge Total Runs Leaders
Player | Runs | Baserunning Runs | Runs Saved | Positional Adjustment | Total Runs
Robinson Cano | 94 | 1 | 14 | 23 | 132
Josh Hamilton | 105 | 1 | 4 | 14 | 124
Evan Longoria | 86 | 4 | 14 | 19 | 123
Adrian Beltre | 83 | 1 | 12 | 18 | 114
Despite his impressive triple crown numbers, Miguel Cabrera is only fifth in the American League in Total Runs. He currently has 106 Runs Created, tied with Josh Hamilton for the overall MLB lead, but his baserunning, his defense and his value for playing first base only add another three runs for a Total Runs total of 109. Instead, Robinson Cano is the top player in the American League, with Hamilton and Evan Longoria close behind.
My Take: Fuck the Yankees.
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All five are legit candidates right now
and Carl Crawford and Joe Mauer are in the conversation as well.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Yes, Crawford.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
I would still give it to Hamilton
I have a hard time giving Cano 23 runs for second base and I also think the 2 are closer in value defensively than Dewan’s system has them out to be.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I think if Josh is anywhere close
he’ll win, just because it is voted on by writers, and writers absolutely love Josh Hamilton. No one loves Miguel Cabrera
Also, I keep reading that “no team has ever had an MVP, Cy Young, ROY, and Manager of the Year before, but several have had three.” I figured, well, if they are even mentioning Manager of the Year, some team sometime must have won the other three real awards, and they’re just adding Manager to make an interesting story.
Turns out, no team has had the three real awards (MVP, Cy, ROY) either. So why are people talking about Manager of the Year? There is no award dumber and more useless than MoY (is that the abbreviation?) I couldn’t tell you for certain who has won any of them, except I figure Scoscia and Torre have won some, since people adore them.
Go Rice Owls!
And fwiw
Hamilton still has a .8 WAR lead on Cano using Fangraphs’ WAR calculations, which is kind of funny since that looks like the exact difference in Dewan’s total runs leaderboard between Hamilton and Cano.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Here's my question
If most defensive stats need a 3 year average to give an accurate picture, shouldn’t we adjust the defensive run contribution accordingly?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
maybe if you were just looking at a more overall talent level
but if you’re talking about for an MVP award, you just take the best info out there and try to mix it with some normal scouting for defense.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
Not that Hamilton fits here
But I worry about stuff like Gutierrez’s UZR last year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 20, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
needing a 3 year average
these stats are all descriptive – I don’t think more time is needed for an accurate descriptive picture.
If a player was just randomly awesome for a year, and just more time is needed to regress his numbers to his mean – then you may need more time for the statistic to have any predictive power. But as a descriptive tool of how a player actually performed, I think they’re fine. A guy with a phenomenal defensive score probably got that score becasue he actually was phenomenal.
Ubaldo Jimenez had a ridiculous sub-1.00 ERA for the first month or two of the season. His peripherals suggested he just hadn’t yet had enough games to accurately give us an idea of what he’d be like for the rest of the season. But he was still ridiculous in April and May.
Go Rice Owls!
Veracity of Defensive Metrics
Check out Podcast 8 in the Goldstein/Parks series. There is a long discussion about defensive metrics with a very knowledgable guest. Really eye opening stuff.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so.
You’re talking about like for MVP debates, right? Because I’m looking at what they actually produced, not removing that which should be regressed for talent evaluation. So I’m going to reward a player for having the first great defensive season of his career, even if I know he’s not really that good.
Now, how accurately UZR and DRS assess that is an issue. But if we were to take them at face value, I wouldn’t regress them for awards conversations.
Huge problem with the stats showing that Josh Hamilton is an average fielder
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
I'll tell you how.
They don’t show it on TV but if you go to the games note how they position Hamilton compared to Murphy or compared to how other teams position their left fielders. Hamilton is more or less straight away most of the time. The team’s stats apparently show he has enough range that they don’t have to cheat him to the left or right as much.
Plus, when he gets the ball he almost never screws up. He throws to the right base or he hits his cut off man, and he does it very quickly. The guy is athletic and once he catches a ball he is ready to throw it almost immediately, even if he had to run the other way to go get it.
You see how the Rangers take extra bases on outfielders all the time. The broadcasters love to parrot the 1st to 3rd thing. You don’t see that happening very often against the Rangers when they have Hamilton, Borbon, and Cruz out there, though, and there’s a reason for that. Three very good outfielders. The two at the corners are especially good because they don’t really have any weaknesses. Borbon can’t throw but does everything else right. Anyway, I think Hamilton is the best of the three. Not the fastest but the best all around.
by Black Francis on Aug 21, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with a lot of that
and fightinirish I’m sure appreciates you at least attempting to make a detailed point instead of a simple drive by “watch the game” kind of comment.
Hamilton’s arm is great, and he’s played well in the time he’s been in CF, going by the eyetest, but I wonder how well he’d hold up over a full season there.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Defense is too subjective to be put into a stat.
Done
"I definitely lead the league in weird injuries. I'm embarrassed, really. Somebody asks you why you came out and you say, 'Um, I was dizzy.' And then they ask you again and you say, 'I think I got something in my eye.' I'd much rather be run over, that's more manly." -- C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, on the pair of strange injuries (dizziness, eye irritation) that have forced him to miss time this season.
by fightnirish220 on Aug 21, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say that.
I’d say the people who are trying to quantify defense don’t have the data they’d like to have. Once they do, then we will have very accurate statistics for defense.
by Black Francis on Aug 21, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he's all that great in CF
He’s fast, but he’s not that kind of fast. He may be average there, I don’t know. At the corners he really, really stands out.
by Black Francis on Aug 21, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
RE: Miggy and Defense
In addition to all the runs he’s cost the tigers, he has also cost them a perfect game.
It's really Dewan
"I support you, Wash; I’ve always supported you," Young said
"Back on the scene, with a gangsta lean" RW
Greatest profile pic ever.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
The Eye Test
He was in a slump for around three days. He drove in a tough run last night on a jam job fastball that he got around on. He had three hits today in a game that was close to being a blowout, but he brought them back in with a big home run, and scored on a double from first where there was no thought of a play at home.
He almost made an amazing catch in the left field stands/ corner where the ball when off his glove when he hit the wall. There’s not too many .360 hitters with his power, his speed, and his defensive abiity, and this year he is a standout over any other three tool players.
































