Singer: Rangers, Cardinals could sweep post-season awards
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 10:32 AM CDT
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PrintTom Singer on MLB.com has a story up talking about the possibility that the Rangers and Cardinals could sweep the major post-season awards.
The Rangers, of course, have Josh Hamilton, Cliff Lee, Neftali Feliz, and Ron Washington,* all of whom seem to be the favorites in their respective categories.
* Coinkidinkly enough, the picture of Ron Washington arguing, above? It is from Colby Lewis's 90 Game Score game I mentioned in the morning post.
And the Cards have Albert Pujols, Adam Wainwright, Jaime Garcia, and Tony LaRussa, although if they don't make the playoffs (and their chances of making the playoffs have dropped over 40% per the BP Playoff Odds in the past week), the chances of that happening would seem to be pretty remote.
The other thing that jumped out of me, though, and that I wanted to comment on from this article...Singer mentions Ryan Howard as one of the four leading contenders for the MVP.
The same Ryan Howard that is 13th in the N.L. in OPS, despite playing in a hitter's park (and of course, manning one of the least critical defensive positions).
The same Ryan Howard who is 16th in the N.L. in wOBA.
The same Ryan Howard who is 82nd in the N.L. in WAR (using Fangraphs calculations).
Despite all this, Singer is probably right...Howard will probably finish in the top 5 in the N.L. in the MVP balloting. Writers, for whatever reason, think he's one of the best players in baseball, and he's currently tied for 2nd in RBIs. And the Phillies are a good bet to make it to the post-season, which gives Howard a big edge.
Still...Ryan Howard, MVP candidate. Bleah.
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I fail to see the infatuation with Howard
Using RBI as a valid metric is like judging how well a pitcher is doing by how many wins they have.
And mankind is naught but a single nation - Qu'ran 2:213
It's not just writers
This is from Rotoworld
Damon hasn’t been terribly productive in Detroit this season, hitting .271 with seven homers, but he could possibly be sought after by a contending team. He does have a no-trade clause, so he would need to approve any deal.
Johnny Damon is not having a great season by any means but he is quietly putting together a decent season. If you look past AVG and HR (which is hard to do I guess), you’ll see he has an OPS of .768. He’s still taking walks and has 30 doubles and 3 triples to go along with his 7 homers. All this while playing half of his games in pitcher-friendly Comerica Park. Fangraphs also gives him a UZR/150 of 5.1, surprising for his age.
Damon is hitting below expectations, especially considering last year’s dream season, but he’s by no means “not being terribly productive”. I’d rather have Damon than Hawpe.
To be fair, this is written from a fantasy perspective, where RBI's, HR's, AVG, etc. often are the production that matters
Not in any of the leagues I play in, but you know, plebes and all that.
by Past A Diving Michael Young on Aug 21, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
According to Mike Wilbon, Howard has proven through his RBIs that he's worth as much money as Pujols
THE RANGERS ARE FULL OF UNBELIEVEABLE SUCK GIVE UP NOW IT DOES NOT MATTER GOOD BYE.
"It has been said that baseball is to the United States what revolutions are to Latin America, a safety valve for letting off steam. I think baseball is more serious than any Latin American revolution. But, then, I am a serious fan." -- George F. Will
by WestTxAg06 on Aug 21, 2010 11:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ugh.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
RBI's for hitters....
And Win Totals for pitchers…
Matt (Denver, CO): Congratulations, I heard you won a gold glove!
Klaw (1:18 PM) : Thanks, I had a great year at the plate!
I think Jason Heyward is ready to be promoted to the AL. He’s mastered the NL - Matthew Carruth
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I really don't see them caring as much with other players as they do with Howard, though.
It’s bizarre.
well, other players actually have other redeeming qualities
by kevinkinsler on Aug 21, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems like there's a definite desire to make Ryan Howard out to be great, for whatever reason.
I just don’t know what that reason is.
He's big?
Maybe he’s nice to them?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't even understand it knowing that people like RBIs.
They don’t seem to use RBIs as the end-all for any other players like that. And usually a ton of strikeouts end up getting a guy underrated.
I wish he'd come back
for the rest of the year.
by Jose Cardenal on Aug 21, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
x
and of course, manning one of the least critical defensive positions
What position is less critical than First?
Really???
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
between the two corner outfield spots
it doesn’t require quite the same arm strength due to its proximity to third. but right field is typically where the weakest outfielder in terms of tracking balls down will play
by kevinkinsler on Aug 21, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Singer lost me when he both 1) missed Feliz' save count by three, and 2) insinuated that Tommy Hunter has a chance for the Cy Young.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
Today on one of the sports radio stations
They were interviewing a baseball guy. He said that while the Yankees had issues, the Rangers couldn’t considered as favorites over them because the league has caught up to Scott Feldman and Cliff Lee is giving up a lot more hits now that he’s wilting in the heat.
>=|
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the league caught up to Feldman in December.
too bad the argument is moot with him now in the bullpen
by kevinkinsler on Aug 21, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
MVP
To be fair shouldn’t really be who is the best player but rather the most valuable. Sure rbis are not a great measure of talent but for that season they are a good measure of value.
by groundingout on Aug 21, 2010 11:04 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Do we really have to go through this again?
RBI reflects almost nothing about a player’s ability. If anything, it reflects placement in the lineup, the ability of the preceding hitters to get on base, and is as much a function of luck as anything.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Not saying he's right but
[MVP] shouldn’t really be who is the best player
RBI reflects almost nothing about a player’s ability
Hooray for reading comprehension!!!
by blakethegr8 on Aug 21, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's what RBIs tell you:
One of the guys in front of the guy with the monster RBI total is probably the most valuable. The guy with the huge RBI total is probably a good power hitter who you know will get his regardless, but one who’s benefited this season from a lot of runners on in front of him. And that’s where the true value is: the guys in front of him being able to get on base. Otherwise he’d just be another solo-shot-hitting stat-padder.
I agree
I just don’t see why you respond to a post that says RBI isn’t a good indicator of talent by saying RBI isn’t a good indicator of talent.
by blakethegr8 on Aug 21, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I think RBIs are fun to discuss.
RBIs within a game are important (wasn’t that a BI single by Josh last night?) but total RBIs for a season need to be taken in context because the player who gets the most opportunities to drive in runs will usually have the most RBIs.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
by Josey Wales on Aug 21, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't follow.
Just saying the reply suggests the poster either didn’t read the original post, or didn’t understand it outside of the letters “RBI”
by blakethegr8 on Aug 21, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
No
It should be the best player, because the best player is the most valuable player.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
if we want to define value correctly
it should be win shares / million dollars salary. Because while ARod is great, he doesn’t represent “value” the way Hamilton does.
This would also eliminate Ryan Howard from the discussion, one of your more noble and just goals…
Go Rice Owls!
That's something else, I think.
The main definition of value is really just “utility” or “worth”, so I don’t think we need to be getting relative like that.
Maybe throw in some positional adjustments to account for how much was provided to the team that they couldn’t have gotten otherwise, but relative to contract? Nah.
why not?
Who is more valuable? Evan Longoria (5.8 BR WAR) for 2 million or Miguel Cabrera (5.7 BR WAR) for 20 million?
Go Rice Owls!
Thats punishing players for something that they shouldn't be punished for though
Any player who has already hit FA will likely be more expensive than the top pre-FA players. And its not Cabrera’s fault that he can get 20 million a year while Longoria has to wait a few more years to be able to, so why then basically exclude him from such a major award.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
This is why it should just be the "best player"
Writers like to harp on the “valuable” aspect of it because it gives them the opportunity to argue semantics and use creative definitions to advance the storyline they think should be pushed.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I actually agree with you
I’m just saying if you’re going to base the definition around the word “value,” my proposal is as good as the whole fuzzy “help his team win a lot of games”.
It should be best position player, to complement Cy Young, which has nicely been usually awarded to best pitcher regardless of team standing.
Go Rice Owls!
That's the thing, that's not fuzzy.
Value really has a quite simple definition. And as far as baseball goes, “guy with the most production” is it.
[beats everyone talking about needing to define value with my Oxford Desk Dictionary]
Well, when the best-ness is particularly obvious, like A-Rod on the Rangers,
even the voters know what to do. But this whole subthread got started by a question of what the correct way to define value would be, and I’m saying it’s “who was worth the most?” I think positional adjustments to raw production numbers are valid things to consider when answering that questions, but for a player award I don’t find contract numbers relevant.
I prefer it when you show off
your fancy calculator.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, some wins are more valuable than others.
If the best player’s on a bad team, the wins he contributes aren’t that valuable. Like when A-Rod was a Ranger, his 5 WAR turned a 70-win team into a 75-win team. Those 5 wins didn’t mean much.
Whereas say, Cano, without whom the Yankees might be neck and neck with Boston for the wild card.
It’s not the player’s fault, sure, but it does affect his value, and it’s a legitimate point.
Ya know...
…it’s actually not a terrible point. If the marginal value of a win goes up as you near the projected win totals of a playoff team, then isn’t that saying the same thing as a writer who thinks that if you have two similar players but one performed for a playoff team while one performed for a below average team, the one on the playoff team was worth more?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously it means the best player isn't always most valuable, which some folks object to.
But yeah, wins 91-95 are a hell of a lot more valuable than wins 71-75. Seems reasonable to me.
No, it does not obviously mean that
It means one player was lucky enough to be on a winning team and one player wasn’t. It doesn’t make the guy on the winning team better or more valuable.
If you have a 6 WAR player on a losing team and a 5 WAR player on a winning team, what happens if they were to switch teams? The 6 WAR player suddenly becomes better? No, it’s stupid. The better player is more valuable, no matter which team he’s on.
And as for the marginal wins idea, you’re to assign wins No. 90-95 to one specific player? You’re going to decide which wins the player is responsible for out of the 95? I don’t see any sense in that. The better player is more valuable, period. Again, if you switch teams, did the player suddenly get more valuable because the wins now have more marginal value?
No. That sounds just like using RBI to decide who’s better. You’re giving the guy with the better opportunity (being on a better team) an edge he doesn’t deserve.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
I disagree.
If the award were for best player, then I’d agree.
But yeah, I do penalize players who are on bad teams in the MVP voting. It means their contributions are less valuable.
RBI’s have nothing to do with it. Would you like a hat for that straw man?
Not a straw man at all (you're wearing out that line)
The best player is the most valuable player in my view. You are rewarding a player for things that are not in his control.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Well, you're half right.
I am rewarding a player for things beyond his control. The award is not for best player, no matter how many times folks repeat that mantra.
But RBI’s have nothing to do with it. Getting extra RBI’s doesn’t make you better or more valuable. But being a 5 WAR player on a playoff contender does make you a lot more valuable than being a 5 WAR player on a losing team. It’s not fair, sure, but who said it was supposed to be?
Also, I like that line second only to “do you have a permit to bury that joke?”
Bah hah hah.
I disagree with that 2nd paragraph
But being a 5 WAR player on a playoff contender does make you a lot more valuable than being a 5 WAR player on a losing team.
No, you are NOT more valuable. The rest of the team around you is more valuable than the rest of the other guy’s teammates are. The player himself is not more valuable.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
Longoria,
because he has a higher WAR… heh.
When we’re talking MVP I don’t want to know who’s contract is most valuable to the team’s owner, or would be most valuable in a trade. I want to know who’s most valuable on the field.
Especially considering baseball’s salary system, where guys are usually going to be peaking right around when they start making the big bucks. Should the guy making 15 million really be required to put up 15 times as many WAR as the guy making 1 million? Is anybody making a million or less with more than 0.285 WAR more valuable than Cabrera? Is Elvis 12.6 times more valuable than Cabrera? Of course not.
I’d argue that roster spots, at bats, and quality players at a given position are all much more scarce in the MLB environment than money.
This argument needs to define value.
Value IS a relative term in this situation. Are we evaluating opportunity cost (how else the money could have been used if not for the players salary), the clubs overall profit margin, the clubs success on the field, etc.
In a no-cap system like MLB a player’s salary needs to be discussed as it relates to the rest of the team and to the overall club revenue streams. You can’t just divide WAR by salary because the salary means something different to each club. A $10 salary probably won’t prohibit the Yankees from adding another piece but it probably will for the Marlins. The Marlins revenue streams don’t allow for as big a payroll as the Yankees. Each players value is relative to the rest of the clubs finances. If you want to define value this way (and I don’t), then to define value to a club you should be considering the overall cost of the player relative to the payroll, and probably also relative to the clubs profit margins.
Anyways, I think the contributions on the field should decide who the “MVP” is. Everything else is simply too complex and unnecessary.
Also...let's take this a little farther...
Who is more valuable?
Evan Longoria, who was the #3 overall pick in the draft?
Or Ian Kinsler, who was the 500th or something overall pick in the draft?
If the Rays hadn’t taken Longoria, they could have taken Kershaw or Lincecum, and been just about as well off.
If the Rangers hadn’t taken Kinsler, they’d have gotten nothing of value.
Longoria can’t be that valuable since he was taken so high in the draft.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
So by this definition the most valuable players ever
were Nolan Ryan and Mike Piazza?
While you are just being silly, and this obviously is irrelevant to a single season’s value, it is a fair thing to include in judging teams’ front offices. After all, it isn’t clear who #2 in the league is behind Seattle
Go Rice Owls!
Does
Timely hitting count? If player A is having a better season statistically than player B but player B does much better with risp and has many more late game winning hits and hrs. Player A puts up the better season statistically but player B isn’t far behind. Player B would be more valuable but player A would have the better season. Another case would be if the best player played in a stacked lineup and a lesser player played for a lesser lineup, if both teams make the playoffs and the first team would have done alright without him where as the 2nd team needed that player more, which one is more valuble? I don’t think best player automatically is the MVP.
by groundingout on Aug 21, 2010 11:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Uh Oh.
I’ve been lurking long enough to know where this is gonna go. DUCK!
by Jose Cardenal on Aug 21, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe.
I wouldn’t count it, but I’m not sure counting it is a horrible idea. But RBIs are a horrible way to do it.
Sky put together a little format that combined WPA with WAR a while ago, I think that’s similar to the direction you should head in.
But how much of that is skill?
And how much is just opportunity of playing on a team that plays a lot of close games?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i use the same argument for why KRod wasn't really all that unbelievable when set the record for saves
their offense was hardly good enough to beat teams by more than 3 runs, so he had a shit-ton of opportunities. The difference in a 98% save rate and 88% save rate wouldn’t have been big enough to keep him from getting the record
by kevinkinsler on Aug 21, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
They should rename it "The Play On, Playa Award"
by shroomer on Aug 21, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No diggity, no doubt.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Why not
just emulate the NHL and have two awards?
Best offensive performance a la the Art Ross Trophy (for highest scorer)
Most Valuable Player a la the Hart Trophy (MVP)
The winner of one award isn’t necessarily be the winner of the other. Just have two diff awards and everyone is happy.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Aug 21, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Because the best player should win the MVP
Not necessarily the best offensive player.
You can be the best player, but not be the most “valuable” player, as writers choose to interpret the definition that year, or the best offensive player.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
the Art Ross Trophy is kind of a consolation award then, and shuts up those people who say the MVP should go to the best offensive player.
In this scenario, Cabrera would win the “Art Ross” and Hamilton would finish 2nd for it but would win the more important MVP award as the “best player”. The NHL setup seems to address the argument pretty smartly and tries to make everyone happy.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Aug 21, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, so you are talking about best hitter.
But the best hitter isn’t the best/most valuable player and there’s already a Hank Aaron award for the best hitter.
No
I’m saying have separate awards for best hitter and MVP like the NHL has an award for most productive player – the Art Ross, and an award for the best player overall – the Hart or MVP.
MVP goes to the best player overall and another award goes to best hitter.
I thought this up before you said there was a Hank Aaron award which I didn’t realise existed, so nevermind my idea since it’s already happening.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Aug 21, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Then, yes, you are talking about best hitter.
But that doesn’t settle this argument, because this argument isn’t about best hitter vs. most valuable player. It’s what the difference is between best and most valuable; most don’t think the best hitter is necessarily the best player.
Depends on what you mean.
If you mean there should be an award for the best hitter, there is, it’s just handled stupidly.
If you mean there should be a “best player” and a “most valuable” award, then you have two awards that are usually going to just be doubles of the same thing.
Sure rbis are not a great measure of talent but for that season they are a good measure of value.
You might be on to something here. If only we had some kind of metric that could tell us how much a specific player contributed to his teams wins. Maybe we could make it in relation to a replacement level player. If we only had a metric like that, this would be so easy.
Agreed on the first sentence, disagreed on the second.
But I also think the most valuable player typically is the best definition of best player.
OT: So Jay Mariotti got arrested for suspicion of a felony domestic disturbance
Interesting. Didn’t really knew he had it in him
The Deadspin Boys & Girl
are gonna have fun with this.
by Jose Cardenal on Aug 21, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
And yet...
…I have literally never seen one second of Battlestar Galactica.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 21, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I first visited the site last year when I had read in various places it was the “#1 internet sports blog!” but was severely disappointed in it. The editor (Daulerio?) and others just seems really mean spirited towards all the players. Maybe it was better when Leitch was in charge. The only thing worth reading is the great Drew Magary, and I can get enough of him on KSK.
A douchey blowhard who always thinks he's right no matter what and will argue that point forever until you agree with him?
If you have that kind of a personality, it’s my experience that putting hands on is not that far of a stretch.
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
I agree, seems pretty full of himself too.
But that may just be deadspin trying to embarrass him.
I've read stuff about his asshattery at a lot of other places.
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
This is maybe the best place to post this
but I don’t think I want to use linear weighted stats for the MVP race. I think I’d try to combine WPA or WPA/LI with a defensive metric. Best would be to apportion WPA’s to defensive plays (somehow).
By linear weighted do you mean averaged/projected over the course of an "average" season?
I.e., you want who’s done the most, not who should’ve done the most?
I guess this is just my unfamiliarity with how exactly the term is frequently used in baseball circles,
but yes, best season vs “true” best player.
"Linear weighted" as in
wOBAr, which is the offensive component of WAR, linearly weights outcomes. So all singles are treated the same, regardless of situation. So a single in the bottom of the 9th in a bases loaded tie game is the same as a single in the top of the 1st ball game.
I like WPA, or at the very least WPA/LI, which weights the single and HR the same in that bottom of the 9th situation. WPA goes further and gives you weights based on the score of the game – basically if it’s a close game then your single could be more important than a HR in a blowout. I’m not exactly sure if I am completely on board using WPA but I am leaning that way
Ah, so is the regardless-of-situation part generally the key when "linear weights" are talked about re: stats?
When I hear non-linearly-weighted I picture some alternate, formula that would, say, be something like HR^2 + 3B^1.75 + 2B^1.5 + 1B + BB^0.85, but that would still be situationally-independent.
Bah.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if there are lots of places in baseball where linear models will eventually be shown to be inferior to polynomial ones. It’s just a (much) more complicated fitting.
Oh
well I didn’t realize that’s what you meant (I know see the carats). But I think given how close the linear weights approximate the actual runs scored, it’s not that big of a deal. A more complicated model would help get it even closer but I guess it’s not a priority.
Yeah, they're pretty good for runs scored.
Might also be a case where you could fit find something to fit the historical data better but most of them end up being less predictive; I don’t know how much it’s been looked at. Defense seems like a good candidate for fancier models, at least when more/better data starts being tracked, but I don’t know how computationally feasible that would be, either.
Now, wait, if we're talking about wOBA we're not talking about trying to get it to be predictive.
That’s more like wOBAr, which I wouldn’t use for a season award argument, either. With wOBA we’re just trying to look at what portion of the offense is the result of a given player’s results outside of what his teammates do.
For this reason, I’m a proponent of using something like tRA for Cy Young/MVP conversations over something like FIP.
but I don't get why we are using linear weights
can you give me a good reason not to use WPA/LI over wOBA? Don’t hitters change their approaches in certain game situations? Shouldn’t they?
Maybe, maybe not.
I’m just purely trying to look, as much as possible, at who produced the most within his own means. I’m not going to remove lucky hits, but I am not going to include teammates getting on base in front of him.
But I’m also not going to tell you including leverage is necessarily wrong.
but the teammates getting on base in front of him does not come into play that much here
Only in the limited cases where doing so makes the difference between a HR and Single less. But I think it’s silly to penalize a hitter for not getting a HR in a situation where a Single or a Walk works exactly the same, especially when everybody in the park (especially the hitter) realizes that and is playing in a way that reflects that
Good point.
Anyway, what I’m looking at with MVP is how much extra winning a players’ season created with his own performance regardless of the variable situations out of his control. In other words, Player A was worth eight wins in a vacuum. He may have only made Team 1 win 4 if he went there and may have helped Team 2 win 12, but those are mostly due to situations of happenstance. I’ll never do so perfectly, but that’s my approach.
I think there are arguments for looking at including the happenstance and don’t think they’re inherently wrong. I’m just probably not going to be convinced that’s where I should be going in MVP arguments.
Wouldn't that just reward a player
who is on a team that plays in a bunch of close games?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't like tRA for pitchers
again, doesn’t take situation into context at all. To disregard situation to that extent is a bit much for an in season award.
Heh, I was just talking about this above.
I disagree, but I don’t think you’re wrong. If that makes sense.
I'd weigh WPA a bit, but not rely on it totally
because to do so is to reward a player for happening to be at the plate in high leverage situations. Two players could hit equally well, but because one is in more high leverage situations he’d be rewarded. I can see this side of the argument but I don’t agree with it.
Freude schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Freude!
There should be an app that you enter a player's name into
and it generates a back and forth argument between a nat’l baseball writer and a sabre head.
According to BR's WAR, Choo is more valuable than Hamilton.
A lot of variables need to be parsed.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Between it and TZ?
Interesting. I’ve heard that between UZR and DRS, though. Do you have a link?
Also, he should give it a lukewarm reception. All defensive metrics should have a lukewarm reception. Just warmer than someone watching some games and saying one player produced more defensively in a season than another because he looked good in the games he saw.
It was a frontpage fanshot
linking to an SI article about Hamilton.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/08/18/getting-started-on-josh-hamilton/
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
"I am one of the biggest Texas Ranger fans out there but I'm also one of the smartest. Deal with it."
-The Outlaw
I wonder if the best would be triangulating.
Including TZ, DRS and UZR. I often like to split the difference between DRS and UZR, it just never seemed, by methodology, that I should be giving TZ equal weight if the other two were available.
Rangers could take so many awards...
MVP – Hamilton
Cy Young – Lee
Manager – Wash
Exec – JD
Comeback – Lewis (although his stupid W-L record will probably keep him from taking it) or Hamilton.
RotY – Feliz
GG’s – Andrus, Hamilton
And of course WS MVP – Cruz
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Why doesn't MLB
just emulate the NHL and have two awards?
Best offensive performance a la the Art Ross Trophy (for highest scorer)
Most Valuable Player a la the Hart Trophy (MVP)
The winner of one award isn’t necessarily be the winner of the other. Just have two diff awards and everyone is happy.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Aug 21, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Because this is baseball
Sometimes I press CTRL+F and type in "Josey Wales" just to see if he made a stupid statement.
One of my favorite Stars ever.
Mike Keane scored only big goals.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
by Josey Wales on Aug 21, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Game 7 of the '99 Conference Final against the Avs...
Will forever be known as the “Mike Keane Game”
Matt (Denver, CO): Congratulations, I heard you won a gold glove!
Klaw (1:18 PM) : Thanks, I had a great year at the plate!
I think Jason Heyward is ready to be promoted to the AL. He’s mastered the NL - Matthew Carruth
Now Taking Suggestions for New Username
Same here,
those were great times.
Young and dumb; damn I wish I still could use that excuse.
by lost in space on Aug 21, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I was at the Game 7 v the Avs and it was one of the best
live sports experiences I’ve had in my lifetime, rating with Tech/Texas ‘08 and Nolan’s 7th no-hitter.
There wasn’t a whistle during the last 5 minutes and the Reunion crowd kept getting louder and louder and louder when the realization set in that nol only had we come back on the Avs but we were going to the SC Finals.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
by Josey Wales on Aug 21, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I miss Reunion.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Ditto.
Great place for hockey.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I was at the game with my dad
He was about a couple of feet away from me and I couldn’t hear him when he tried to talk to me in the last couple of minutes because the place was so loud. Just an all around amazing game…
I still considered it to be the greatest game in Dallas Star’s history…even more than game 6 of the Cup finals
Matt (Denver, CO): Congratulations, I heard you won a gold glove!
Klaw (1:18 PM) : Thanks, I had a great year at the plate!
I think Jason Heyward is ready to be promoted to the AL. He’s mastered the NL - Matthew Carruth
Now Taking Suggestions for New Username
Hitch put out Guy, Little Ball of Hate and Keane
together on a line and they started the game – were bleeping awesome.
Super Joe (my favorite Star of all time) gave Langenbrunner a sweeeet assist to get us going early and then Keane weaved his magic.
The last 5 minutes of the game were majestic.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
"The Influence continues." Josey Wales (1/18/10)
Likewise,
I still don’t understand why they did that
by lost in space on Aug 21, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Worst trade in DFW sports history in my opinion, trading away your future captain and not getting equal in return.
You just knew Arnott would never live up to that Stanley Cup winning goal he scored against us with the Devils.
That Stars team was about the best hockey team put together that you could ask for with all roles being filled (star scorers, scrappy physical role players who had just enough scoring touch, and shutdown goalie).
that;s the one
MLB should also have an award for the postseason instead of series MVPs. The Derek Jeter Award’?
Mickey Mantle
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
Dolly Parton said Linda Ronstadt, Barbara Streisand, and Conn Smythe
were the only truly great singers.
'Waiting for a girl and she gets me into fights
Waiting for a girl we get drunk on Friday night'
And, if you base it on RBI,
then we can even emulate the debate about the scoring measure being flawed due to second assists!
Assists are stupid anyway
You could pass it to a guy in your own end, he skates all the way down to the other end by himself and dekes out 4 guys and scores, and somehow you get an assist even though he did 99% of the work. Stupid.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Aug 21, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh, at least it avoids the human influence and potential bias of basketball assists.
And it rewards the players who are smart enough to pass it to the badass who’s going to go all the way by himself, blow through the defense, and bust out the triple deke. :D
Among the greatest fake names of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxJkAQFGEyo
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
THAT'S THE TEACHER FROM "STAND AND DELIVER!!!"
played by Edward James Olmos, twin brother to Jorge Cantu!!!! It always comes full circle on LSB….
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
I'm actually not sure I agree with this.
Since it’s given to outfielders, not specific positions, a corner outfielder to me would have to be so good it’s likely he would be one of the top three center fielders if he moved over. Like in the seasons Crawford has had Gutierrez had.
If you need a statty representation, something like adding a positional adjustment from RF to CF to his UZR or whatever and it still puts him at or near the top of the league.
I think that's more of a skill set issue
Cruz’s skills wouldn’t necessarily translate very well to CF.
But he’s having an exceptional year at RF. I’m guessing he hasn’t qualified on Fangraphs Leader charts because of the time missed, but he’s got a +/- of 12, which would tie him for 5th in the league, he’d be third in the league in UZR/150, and barely missing the Top 5 in UZR.
You also consider that GG’s usually go to players who are hitters who just happen to field well (sometimes, not even that), and I think that his offensive output makes him a definite candidate, and that his stats would definitely make it a deserving pick… or at least, one that wouldn’t be seen as a MY/McLouth level fuckup.
But the defensive impact of center field, and the difficulty of playing it, are higher than right field.
Part of why his skill set wouldn’t play in center is because he’s not as skilled as center fielders.
That's part of the thing I dislike about the way the Gold Gloves are done.
He’s been, by evaluation, by stats, one of the best, if not the best right fielders in baseball.
If you’re a defensively excellent third baseman, you don’t get penalized because you’re not as talented as some short stops.
I disagree.
To me, this seems like giving all the infield Gold Gloves to short stops.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess he's at the point where he wants to try to hit HR's now
might as well see if he could become a power hitter
Guess how many HR Ichiro has on the year.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 21, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
For anyone that cares-- Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus is on SyFy right now.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
This is a truly great terrible movie.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what that is.
But I’ve been watching a giant shark chase a weird looking submarine around for about twenty-five minutes now.
The editing in this movie is the absolute worst I’ve ever seen without question.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok now both animals are apparently dead.
They killed each other for some reason I have yet to figure out.
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It's... something...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1619880/
http://livefeed.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/07/syfy-sharktopus-trailer-video.html
Go to about a minute forty into the trailer for AWESOME.
Oh snap, Teenwolf now on G4!
I've been trying to convince my family of the magic of cumin. They won't listen to me. It makes almost everything better.- PhilKid3, 8/16/2010.
by Aquaman, Esq. on Aug 21, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Oooooh, but Howard's contract is so huge!
I like the JD for Exec of the year and Colbayashi for comeback.
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