Competing for Expensive Free Agents
by Philar on Sep 3, 2010 3:11 PM CDT
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PrintIn examining some data on the Rangers competing against the Yankees for a high dollar free agent whose initials might be something like CL, I think there are definitely some areas the Rangers can compete against the Yanks.
Here are some factors favoring the Yanks:
- More money
- More potential endorsements
- Better offensive support for pitchers
- Tradition
And here are some positive factors for the Rangers
- Less income tax
- More post tax spending power, less cost of living in DFW area
- For CL, closer to home
- Better defensive support
- Better bullpen support
I think it is pretty obvious that the New York Yankees have the biggest market at least as a money generating baseball franchise goes. I also found their offense to be superior to the Rangers this year at least in the categories of OPC, RBI's and Runs scored. Their tradition is obvious, the most championships of any other MLB franchise. I've even indicated there may be more potential endorsement money to be made, but I think that is mainly a matter of marketing and can an expensive free agent take advantage of that market.
The Dallas-Fort Worth area has some pretty strong advantages. The tax advantages of no income tax is pretty substantial, about $2,120,000 less than New York, New York because of state and local income tax on a annual salary of $20,000,000. And perhaps an even stronger economic factor is the cost of living factor. According to mysalary.com the spending power of dollars in the DFW is 39.3% greater than the New York City area on $20,000,000. That is huge! As a matter of fact, my salary.com has information indicating that $20 million goes about as far in New York City as $12 million does in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
Add in the fact that the bullpen in Arlington is a little stronger (at least as far as ERA is rated), and the defense is equal or better than NYY (estimating a superior outfield, and catcher in Texas), then Texas can be fairly competitive in my opinion.
OK, I tried to keep this post shorter than my last one. I'm sure it is either too short,or too long, but I talk and no doubt write too much generally.
Philar
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Here is a big one
After they pay for player X, the Yankees will still have enough money to field a competitive team around him, with enough depth to be robust to potential injuries. Texas will be able to maintain a nice roster due to current players under control, but it will be low depth, always one or two injuries away from 2nd place…
Go Rice Owls!
I think pitching is the key for the Rangers
That is a position the are deep in. I think this years Rangers team has shown that they can make it through injuries of their main players and still stay afloat but not only that stay in first.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
And there is another good point Boomer1...
You have a young, potentially solid staff that could be around for a top of the line pitcher to anchor. Lewis, CJ, Hunter, added to the historically solid Lee could be quite a starting staff for the future.
Does it need to be a top-line pitcher though
With CJ emerging? Couldn’t it be just a #3-type that can give you 200 IP, like a Pavano? Pretty sure that’s all that’s going to be left after NYY’s done at the table.
Troy McClure: "Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy! If a cow ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about!"
by stupidsexyflanders on Sep 3, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think CJ may be my favorite Ranger pitcher right now.
But he doesn’t have the proven record of Cliff Lee. If Lee flops the rest of the year, and doesn’t produce in the playoffs suddenly his value goes down, probably considerably with some teams at least. Remember also that the Yankees ballpark is considered about equal with RBiA, although more home runs have certainly been hit their this year.
Wait till they find out that nearly 11% more is being taken out of their salary for taxes.
I’m not sure an agent will tell them that, but that’s reality between New York City and north Texas. Making $20 million a year in Texas is like making $32.8 million in New York City, not including taxes because of the cost of living differences.
really?
the yankees way over bid on him to get him. Outbid other franchises that would have had similar costs on his salary like LAA.
This is the way anyone who has any kind of business smarts would think through this. If Cliff Lee recieves a bid from the yankees that overwhelms the Rangers offer he goes there 100% of the time, but if the Rangers are determined and just stick within the range of the Yankees, they’ll have a shot with these other factors coming into play and evening a 10 or so million dollar gap.
The Ranger's will win the AL pennant by 2013
Exactly!
And who was Texeira’s agent? Could it be Borass, who is probably more interested in his percentage fee than he is the real spending power of dollars per franchise area.
YEs, even AFraud realizes that Boras is a bunch of crap
Boras only wants to get the next big contract signed so he can go into the house of an 18year old and show his parents the $$$ on his clients contracts. He has done almost as much harm to baseball as steroids.
by RQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
How does ARod realize...
Boras is crap? He dropped him because he’s already signed through his age 42 season. Boras got him 2 separate 10 yr / $250 + mil contracts.
Do you really think ARod hates Boras?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Sorry he only got him one (which actually became only a 7 year contract)
Boras was the one that convinced him to opt out of the contract in 07 (which of course helpd the cash strapped Rangers) and then released the press release during Game 4 of the WS. This was move that Afraud had to publicly denouce and then negotiate his OWN contract with the Yanks. Boras was able to weasel his way back into the negotions to resolve the “final details” so he could still get his cut for doing nothing but make Afraud look bad. He finally realized that he is paying him for doing nothing now that he will likely not be signing another contract. Boras only treated Afraud like a trophy buck hanging in his office.
by RQ on Sep 4, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to further...
this discussion since you keep referring to him as ‘Afraud’.
Obviously you don’t like the guy and you’re not going to let facts get in the way of your opinions about him or Boras.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
When he is making $20M a year
Cost of living won’t matter.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
I think you would be surprised...
but what free agent is going to say, hey don’t take a dollars adjustedl contract with the Yankees because they are going to get their percentage anyway. if the Rangers equal a contract with New York, they should have a financial advantage.
I know several players
In my last business I had several players Cowboys and Rangers that said it comes down to just the number that they are getting per season. Very rarely do they give hometown discounts or think of state taxes.
"The 2010 Rangers...winning despite Ron Washington"
In the interest of quicker games Ron should just tell the ump he's pulling the Feliz card and the ump should rule the inning over.--Sherman McCoy on Sept. 4, 2009
In his defense, you are a retarded cuntbag by LiamP on Mar 4, 2010
Anyone want to hazard a guess
as to what kind of offers will be tossed at CL and what it may take to sign him? Not just here but NY or anyone else that may have interest in him. CC money?
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
The reality is the so-called hometown discount...
is a hometown bonus after taxes and cost of living is figured in. If this is the case, it becomes a matter of making this information clear to the player.
And there have been players who regret signing in NY.
Kenny Rodgers left for there and was later quoted as saying if he had know what the cost of living was he might have thought twice about it. Plus the constant media pressure the city puts on you to perform. I guess it goes with the job.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
i doubt cost of living factors in much
it’s not like he’ll be trying to squeeze by on a $100K salary in Manhattan.
The biggest difference
is the Yankees can have a 200+ million budget, the Rangers will be lucky to have half that.
I’m just not sure it’s possible to win a bidding war with the Yankees without it being a Pyrrhic victory.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
We can't and should not try.
If NY wants him and the money is what closes the deal then he’s a Yankee next year. It sucks but that’s the way it goes.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
The Rangers can get in on the bidding
but if they are smart they will have a line in the sand they won’t cross, and bail out when the bidding gets over that.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
I pretty much agree.
But they should sell themselves short and say, ‘We can’t compete with the Yankees.’
Forgive me if it sounds like I was suggesting
that we should not try. I trust the powers that be will know what the limit is and stick to it. I just don’t want us unable to pursue other needs because of an overpaid contract.
I was simply saying that money will never stop the Yankess from getting who they want. I want him to stay here but not at any price.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
I have no problem with them competing
but I can run a long laundry list of folks who “won” bidding wars for pitchers, only to end up being big losers when they got injured or didn’t age gracefully. Due to the Yankees Budget, they can easily bid up Lee past the point where we can compete monetarily.
"Look, we're basically on earth to shit and fuck. So unless your job's to help people shit or fuck, it's not that important, so relax."-https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
Agreed!
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
But the Rangers need to talk to him....
discuss their advantages over New York and see if they can’t convince him. Maybe Nolan Ryan needs to be their visible negotiator since he was supposed to be Lee’s favorite pitcher when growing up. And Arlington is a lot closer to Little Rock than is New York.
they will but in the end it will matter only what # is on the contract
if the rangers are equal then the tax advantages and being closer to home should increase the chances. But dont insult him by saying our offer may look like 2 mil less but the taxes equal it out. Show him that our equal offer is more because of it.
by RQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
But look at the difference in what they are paying each player!
Look at the infield alone. Michael Young would be about equal to Robinson Cano and not be in the ballpark with Jeter, A-Rod, or Teixera. Add in a bunch more money for their current pitching staff, and Lee is not the only high priced free agent in the bidding war. If they offer too much, say $25 over six years, how can they go after Carl Crawford? They might, but who are they gonna cut off their payroll? Probably all Yankee money is guaranteed.
First all baseball contracts are guaranteed as opposed to football and hockey
second the yankes can spend as much as they want and not blink an eye. if it does not work out, the just get another one next year…see AJ Burnett (he is not worth a 3rd of the 18mil or so he is getting this year) They own the TV station that broadcasts the games so the right hand is paying the left hand.
Also, they back load contracts to give them room at the start but dont think about a few years from now. CC’s contract avg is 23 mil but only made like 16 last year so by the end, it is like 25. They just bet on continuing to charge higher tickets and higher advertising.
by RQ on Sep 3, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rangers...
are going to use elephants to win a Cliff Lee bidding war with the Yanks?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
A million dollar nitpick....
Income tax is taxed where an athlete “does business.”
Since players only play at home for 1/2 the games, Lee would only see a tax benefit for 1/2 the games when comparing Texas to NY.
That means only a tax benefit of a million dollars instead of 2 million.
its a novel concept
And one that most of us on this board would definitely consider given our incomes. But when you are talking in the tens of millions of dollars I highly doubt cost of living means much.
my grandad would say otherwise.
he is a VP for an electronics company, and while they are based out of California, he lives full time in Fort Worth, simply because the cost of living is too high in Cali. And I can tell you, he ain’t hurtin for money.
Does he make tens of millions of dollars?
Cost of living does make a difference probably up to the low millions of dollars because if you have that much money you live a certain lifestyle where saving thousands of dollars on property and income taxes makes a difference.
But when you get to CC and Arod type money it really doesn’t matter.
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